RE: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
Thanks for the tip. Have a great weekend! Sherry From: JoJo Al-Zawawi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER? Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 17:23:23 -0800 Hi Sherry ! I understand that Washington Mutual often hires entry-level Oracle DBA's. Try them! Cheers, JoJo (Glendale, CA) http://www.jojo-zawawi.com -Original Message- Lopata Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi gurus, I have taken a few Oracle DBA courses at UCLA Extension, passed my first DBA certification exam, but have not been able to find an entry level position in this area. (My background is in printing and marketing... big career move... I've been told my timing is bad cause the job market is bad here). It was suggested to me, by someone at the LA Oracle User Group meeting, that I become an Oracle Developer first. Is this the path you recommend? Although I liked the UCLA classes, I was dissappointed that the Career Center was off limits to the Extension students. Can you suggest any better/cheaper classes in Southern California? Any with career placement? I have acquired many of the books that have been suggested in these postings and have learned much by being a subscriber to this mailing list. Thanks in advance! SL -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: JoJo Al-Zawawi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). _ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherry Lopata INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
Or you can go straight into damagement. It requires no technical skills, no people skills and the innate ability to royally screw things up. Upon completion of screwing things up, leaving a mess for the DBA to cleanup, you then are promoted to a higher level damagement position with a pay raise. ;o) Dave -Original Message- Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 10:43 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L I always keep an open mind on these sort of things, I would suggest that you now look for an IT job, where you can get close to Oracle product and hopefully some people like are on this list. You are coming in with no experience it would appear, so you are in the same boat as a grad. You might try for some help desk role, and then find opportunities within that organisation to expand your skills. Developer, DBA whatever will come your way of you just keep at it. You also might like to consider looking at Oracle for phone support roles. if you are enthusiastic and are adaptable and can express that to a prospective employer you might get into what you want. I think attitude and life experience are your catches for trying to get a role. Broaden your scope for the time being to allow you to get a toe in and then start working on the career path A lot on the list here started out in some sort of entry role, the younger ones via hep desk or PC support roles and older ones via operator or grad programmer roles. Cheers -- = Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 = A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) = Mincom The People, The Experience, The Vision = This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is confidential information. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group of companies unless expressly stated otherwise. Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23-05-2002 11:43 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Fax to: Subject:Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER? Sherry, Sounds like good advice. There is no way of actually knowing, but I'm sure that the vast majority of DBAs on this list were systems- and applications-developers first. I still consider myself a C programmer first and foremost even though nobody cares about C anymore, and just about everything I learned that was undocumented was due to an understanding of how C programs (like Oracle) work on UNIX (itself written in C). I didn't make the switch to DBA until about 8 years ago, after about 10 years as a developer and sysadmin... Of course, if you want to be the life of the party, be a dessert chef. My younger brother starts discussing the chocolate-chipotle-hazelnut-endive tarts he made the other day, and instantly he is the center of attention. Try doing that by discussing session waits...(yawn)... -Tim - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:33 PM Hi gurus, I have taken a few Oracle DBA courses at UCLA Extension, passed my first DBA certification exam, but have not been able to find an entry level position in this area. (My background is in printing and marketing... big career move... I've been told my timing is bad cause the job market is bad here). It was suggested to me, by someone at the LA Oracle User Group meeting, that I become an Oracle Developer first. Is this the path you recommend? Although I liked the UCLA classes, I was dissappointed that the Career Center was off limits to the Extension students. Can you suggest any better/cheaper classes in Southern California? Any with career placement? I have acquired many of the books that have been suggested in these postings and have learned much by being a subscriber to this mailing list. Thanks in advance! SL _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherry Lopata INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists
Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
Mladen, You? Sarcastic? Never :) --- Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: O if you are enthusiastic and are adaptable and can express that to a prospective employer you might get into what you want. I think attitude My advice to those who want to become DBAs is that they shouldn't be overly concerned if they feel a pang of enthusiasm: it will pass. Healthy sarcasm is, most definitely, a necessary precondition for becoming a good DBA. I developed it into an art form. -- Mladen Gogala -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). __ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Rachel Carmichael INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
On 2002.05.23 07:03 Farnsworth, Dave wrote: Or you can go straight into damagement. It requires no technical skills, no people skills and the innate ability to royally screw things up. Upon completion of screwing things up, leaving a mess for the DBA to cleanup, you then are promoted to a higher level damagement position with a pay raise. Well, being a technically skilled expert helps even with the damagement There is a guy that I know,who was promoted to the damagement and then has spent his days in vi editor and C++-compiler. Needless to say, he didn't do very much for the rest of us, techies. -- Mladen Gogala -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
Sherry, Sounds like good advice. There is no way of actually knowing, but I'm sure that the vast majority of DBAs on this list were systems- and applications-developers first. I still consider myself a C programmer first and foremost even though nobody cares about C anymore, and just about everything I learned that was undocumented was due to an understanding of how C programs (like Oracle) work on UNIX (itself written in C). I didn't make the switch to DBA until about 8 years ago, after about 10 years as a developer and sysadmin... Of course, if you want to be the life of the party, be a dessert chef. My younger brother starts discussing the chocolate-chipotle-hazelnut-endive tarts he made the other day, and instantly he is the center of attention. Try doing that by discussing session waits...(yawn)... -Tim - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:33 PM Hi gurus, I have taken a few Oracle DBA courses at UCLA Extension, passed my first DBA certification exam, but have not been able to find an entry level position in this area. (My background is in printing and marketing... big career move... I've been told my timing is bad cause the job market is bad here). It was suggested to me, by someone at the LA Oracle User Group meeting, that I become an Oracle Developer first. Is this the path you recommend? Although I liked the UCLA classes, I was dissappointed that the Career Center was off limits to the Extension students. Can you suggest any better/cheaper classes in Southern California? Any with career placement? I have acquired many of the books that have been suggested in these postings and have learned much by being a subscriber to this mailing list. Thanks in advance! SL _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherry Lopata INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Tim Gorman INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
RE: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
Hi Sherry ! I understand that Washington Mutual often hires entry-level Oracle DBA's. Try them! Cheers, JoJo (Glendale, CA) http://www.jojo-zawawi.com -Original Message- Lopata Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 5:33 PM To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L Hi gurus, I have taken a few Oracle DBA courses at UCLA Extension, passed my first DBA certification exam, but have not been able to find an entry level position in this area. (My background is in printing and marketing... big career move... I've been told my timing is bad cause the job market is bad here). It was suggested to me, by someone at the LA Oracle User Group meeting, that I become an Oracle Developer first. Is this the path you recommend? Although I liked the UCLA classes, I was dissappointed that the Career Center was off limits to the Extension students. Can you suggest any better/cheaper classes in Southern California? Any with career placement? I have acquired many of the books that have been suggested in these postings and have learned much by being a subscriber to this mailing list. Thanks in advance! SL -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: JoJo Al-Zawawi INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
On 2002.05.22 20:33 Sherry Lopata wrote: Hi gurus, I have taken a few Oracle DBA courses at UCLA Extension, passed my first DBA certification exam, but have not been able to find an entry level position in this area. (My background is in printing and marketing... big career move... I've been told my timing is bad cause the job market is bad here). It was suggested to me, by someone at the LA Oracle User Group meeting, that I become an Oracle Developer first. Is this the path you recommend? Although I liked the UCLA classes, I was dissappointed that the Career Center was off limits to the Extension students. Can you suggest any better/cheaper classes in Southern California? Any with career placement? I have acquired many of the books that have been suggested in these postings and have learned much by being a subscriber to this mailing list. Thanks in advance! SL I would suggest completing the OCP because it looks really nice on the resume and is really appreciated by HR people and then finding a good headhunter to place you. I could recommend you a few, but I live in southern CT which is hardly a commuting distance from LA. Be aware that even with a completed OCP you have a lot to learn before you master the ways of the force. Good luck! -- Mladen Gogala -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
I always keep an open mind on these sort of things, I would suggest that you now look for an IT job, where you can get close to Oracle product and hopefully some people like are on this list. You are coming in with no experience it would appear, so you are in the same boat as a grad. You might try for some help desk role, and then find opportunities within that organisation to expand your skills. Developer, DBA whatever will come your way of you just keep at it. You also might like to consider looking at Oracle for phone support roles. if you are enthusiastic and are adaptable and can express that to a prospective employer you might get into what you want. I think attitude and life experience are your catches for trying to get a role. Broaden your scope for the time being to allow you to get a toe in and then start working on the career path A lot on the list here started out in some sort of entry role, the younger ones via hep desk or PC support roles and older ones via operator or grad programmer roles. Cheers -- = Peter McLarty E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Technical ConsultantWWW: http://www.mincom.com APAC Technical Services Phone: +61 (0)7 3303 3461 Brisbane, AustraliaMobile: +61 (0)402 094 238 Facsimile: +61 (0)7 3303 3048 = A great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. - Walter Bagehot (1826-1877 British Economist) = Mincom The People, The Experience, The Vision = This transmission is for the intended addressee only and is confidential information. If you have received this transmission in error, please delete it and notify the sender. The contents of this e-mail are the opinion of the writer only and are not endorsed by the Mincom Group of companies unless expressly stated otherwise. Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23-05-2002 11:43 AM Please respond to ORACLE-L To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Fax to: Subject:Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER? Sherry, Sounds like good advice. There is no way of actually knowing, but I'm sure that the vast majority of DBAs on this list were systems- and applications-developers first. I still consider myself a C programmer first and foremost even though nobody cares about C anymore, and just about everything I learned that was undocumented was due to an understanding of how C programs (like Oracle) work on UNIX (itself written in C). I didn't make the switch to DBA until about 8 years ago, after about 10 years as a developer and sysadmin... Of course, if you want to be the life of the party, be a dessert chef. My younger brother starts discussing the chocolate-chipotle-hazelnut-endive tarts he made the other day, and instantly he is the center of attention. Try doing that by discussing session waits...(yawn)... -Tim - Original Message - To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:33 PM Hi gurus, I have taken a few Oracle DBA courses at UCLA Extension, passed my first DBA certification exam, but have not been able to find an entry level position in this area. (My background is in printing and marketing... big career move... I've been told my timing is bad cause the job market is bad here). It was suggested to me, by someone at the LA Oracle User Group meeting, that I become an Oracle Developer first. Is this the path you recommend? Although I liked the UCLA classes, I was dissappointed that the Career Center was off limits to the Extension students. Can you suggest any better/cheaper classes in Southern California? Any with career placement? I have acquired many of the books that have been suggested in these postings and have learned much by being a subscriber to this mailing list. Thanks in advance! SL _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Sherry Lopata INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing). -- Please see
Re: newbie seeks career direction: become a DBA or DEVELOPER?
O if you are enthusiastic and are adaptable and can express that to a prospective employer you might get into what you want. I think attitude My advice to those who want to become DBAs is that they shouldn't be overly concerned if they feel a pang of enthusiasm: it will pass. Healthy sarcasm is, most definitely, a necessary precondition for becoming a good DBA. I developed it into an art form. -- Mladen Gogala -- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.com -- Author: Mladen Gogala INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fat City Network Services-- (858) 538-5051 FAX: (858) 538-5051 San Diego, California-- Public Internet access / Mailing Lists To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
