Re: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Tanel Poder
Stephen,

Did you write all the parameters by hand or used a script? ;)

> "analyze table "  have "exec
DBMS_STATS.ONE_OF_273_POSSIBLE_CALLS(arg1,
> arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5, arg6, arg7, arg8, arg9, arg10, arg11, arg12,
arg13,
> arg14, arg15, arg16, arg17, arg18, arg19, arg20, arg21, arg22, arg23,
arg24,
> arg25, arg26, arg27, arg28, arg29, arg30, arg31, arg32, arg33, arg34,
arg35,
> arg36, arg37, arg38, arg39, arg40, arg41, arg42, arg43, arg44, arg45,
arg46,
> arg47, arg48, arg49, arg50, arg51, arg52, arg53, arg54, arg55, arg56,
arg57,
> arg58, arg59, arg60, arg61, arg62, arg63, arg64, arg65, arg66, arg67,
arg68,
> arg69, arg70, arg71, arg72, arg73, arg74, arg75, arg76, arg77, arg78,
arg79,
> arg80, arg81, arg82, arg83, arg84, arg85, arg86, arg87, arg88, arg89,
arg90,
> arg91, arg92, arg93, arg94, arg95, arg96, arg97, arg98, arg99, arg100)".
>
> Do you get the impression that Oracle is just too damn lazy to update
their
> syntax parser?

I don't see anything wrong with it - I thank god (every night) that Oracle
has so many features and controls and hasn't hidden them away from us. If
you want to do things easy - use OEM and get SQL & PL/SQL execution commands
from it using "Show SQL".

Tanel.


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Re: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Stephane Faroult
Stephen Lee wrote:
> 
> The problem with all these "New and Improved" things (when they finally work
> the bugs out ... IF they finally work the bugs out) is that there appears to
> be a move away from SQL-ish syntax toward the calling of a vast number of
> procedures with a whopping array of possible arguments.  I think, with
> Oracle's current path of development we will, in the future, instead of
> "analyze table "  have "exec DBMS_STATS.ONE_OF_273_POSSIBLE_CALLS(arg1,
> arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5, arg6, arg7, arg8, arg9, arg10, arg11, arg12, arg13,
> arg14, arg15, arg16, arg17, arg18, arg19, arg20, arg21, arg22, arg23, arg24,
> arg25, arg26, arg27, arg28, arg29, arg30, arg31, arg32, arg33, arg34, arg35,
> arg36, arg37, arg38, arg39, arg40, arg41, arg42, arg43, arg44, arg45, arg46,
> arg47, arg48, arg49, arg50, arg51, arg52, arg53, arg54, arg55, arg56, arg57,
> arg58, arg59, arg60, arg61, arg62, arg63, arg64, arg65, arg66, arg67, arg68,
> arg69, arg70, arg71, arg72, arg73, arg74, arg75, arg76, arg77, arg78, arg79,
> arg80, arg81, arg82, arg83, arg84, arg85, arg86, arg87, arg88, arg89, arg90,
> arg91, arg92, arg93, arg94, arg95, arg96, arg97, arg98, arg99, arg100)".
> 
> Do you get the impression that Oracle is just too damn lazy to update their
> syntax parser?
> 
> > -Original Message-
> >
> > Perhaps a vague reply, but FWIW I attended a half-day
> > presentation workshop
> > held by Oracle UK on Streams several months ago, and was very
> > impressed,
> > both with Streams and their workshop. They seemed to have got
> > a much better
> > user interface than normal replication provides, and also
> > seemed to address
> > some of the technical shortcomings of basic replication.
> >
> > I would say the product is certainly worth spending a little
> > more time on to
> > check it more closely against your requirements.
> >

I second that. For years, I really appreciated the way you could use SQL
(or variants of SQL) as the one and only way to query everything, your
data as well as the dictionary (one of Codd's requirements) - so much
nicer than Sybase's sp_ stuff. For a while, when V$ views replaced ODS
in version 6, it even went improving. And from V7 on (I especially felt
it with "advanced" replication) it has become a dreadful mess of
supplied packages, some of them justifiable, some of them much less so.
And lo, you can sometimes even choose between the PL/SQL and the Java
version this days. I would have been quite happy with things such as
ALTER TABLE blah REPLICATE USING dblink and so on.

-- 
Regards,

Stephane Faroult
Oriole Software
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RE: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Chaim . Katz

Check that you have the newest  Oracle streams manual - the one on OTN
(released towards the end of last year). It's much better than the manual
that shipped with the version of Oracle 9 that we received.
 There's also an OTN technical forum dedicated to streams.
chaim






"Robson, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@fatcity.com on 08/13/2003 01:34:32 PM

Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc:




Perhaps a vague reply, but FWIW I attended a half-day presentation workshop
held by Oracle UK on Streams several months ago, and was very impressed,
both with Streams and their workshop. They seemed to have got a much better
user interface than normal replication provides, and also seemed to address
some of the technical shortcomings of basic replication.

I would say the product is certainly worth spending a little more time on
to
check it more closely against your requirements.

peter
edinburgh

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Hello,

env: Oracle 9.2.0.3 on Solaris.
I am looking for any comments, good or bad, regarding Oracle Streams.
We are considering using this to transfer data between some 9.2
databases on multiple Sun machines, and hope that someone would share
their experience with us. Our rationale for using this as opposed to
other replication methods is:
1) streams uses log-based capture
2) captures DDL and DML
3) appears to be Oracle's future direction

I have scanned the Oracle Streams documentation. A google search
and a Technet search turned up a few (mainly non-technical) papers. I
could not find any books on this subject.

I have just vague questions at this point:
1) Are the Oracle docs a good source for setting this up? Do they omit
   any important information?
2) Are there any additional sources of helpful information?
3) Did you encounter any unexpected problems when configuring this tool?
4) Can you provider any measure (subjective is fine) of performance?
5) How painful is this to maintain?
Thanks for any responses.

--
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RE: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Stephen Lee

The problem with all these "New and Improved" things (when they finally work
the bugs out ... IF they finally work the bugs out) is that there appears to
be a move away from SQL-ish syntax toward the calling of a vast number of
procedures with a whopping array of possible arguments.  I think, with
Oracle's current path of development we will, in the future, instead of
"analyze table "  have "exec DBMS_STATS.ONE_OF_273_POSSIBLE_CALLS(arg1,
arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5, arg6, arg7, arg8, arg9, arg10, arg11, arg12, arg13,
arg14, arg15, arg16, arg17, arg18, arg19, arg20, arg21, arg22, arg23, arg24,
arg25, arg26, arg27, arg28, arg29, arg30, arg31, arg32, arg33, arg34, arg35,
arg36, arg37, arg38, arg39, arg40, arg41, arg42, arg43, arg44, arg45, arg46,
arg47, arg48, arg49, arg50, arg51, arg52, arg53, arg54, arg55, arg56, arg57,
arg58, arg59, arg60, arg61, arg62, arg63, arg64, arg65, arg66, arg67, arg68,
arg69, arg70, arg71, arg72, arg73, arg74, arg75, arg76, arg77, arg78, arg79,
arg80, arg81, arg82, arg83, arg84, arg85, arg86, arg87, arg88, arg89, arg90,
arg91, arg92, arg93, arg94, arg95, arg96, arg97, arg98, arg99, arg100)".

Do you get the impression that Oracle is just too damn lazy to update their
syntax parser?

> -Original Message-
> 
> Perhaps a vague reply, but FWIW I attended a half-day 
> presentation workshop
> held by Oracle UK on Streams several months ago, and was very 
> impressed,
> both with Streams and their workshop. They seemed to have got 
> a much better
> user interface than normal replication provides, and also 
> seemed to address
> some of the technical shortcomings of basic replication.
> 
> I would say the product is certainly worth spending a little 
> more time on to
> check it more closely against your requirements.
> 
-- 
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
-- 
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RE: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Stephen Lee

Actually, there's a sinister motive behind this.  Oracle is going to start
selling, for a "reasonable" price, a PDA with the reference books built in.
And you can keep it updated by downloading updates ... as long as you
continue to pay your subscription fee.
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RE: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Stephen Lee

Oh, I ... uh ... copied it off the Oracle's SQL Reference Manual page.  Yeah
... that's it.

Note that the O'Reilly "Oracle Built-in Packages" has 900 pages.  And it was
behind the day it came out.  What ever happened to this easy-to-administer,
self-healing, self-maintaining database Oracle says it's going to create?
If that's the case, then what are all these bazillion new procedure calls
for?

> -Original Message-
> 
> 
> Stephen,
> 
> Did you write all the parameters by hand or used a script? ;)
> 
> > "analyze table "  have "exec
> DBMS_STATS.ONE_OF_273_POSSIBLE_CALLS(arg1,
> > arg2, arg3, arg4, arg5, arg6, arg7, arg8, arg9, arg10, arg11, arg12,
> arg13,
> > arg14, arg15, arg16, arg17, arg18, arg19, arg20, arg21, 
> arg22, arg23,
> arg24,
> > arg25, arg26, arg27, arg28, arg29, arg30, arg31, arg32, 
> arg33, arg34,
> arg35,
> > arg36, arg37, arg38, arg39, arg40, arg41, arg42, arg43, 
> arg44, arg45,
> arg46,
> > arg47, arg48, arg49, arg50, arg51, arg52, arg53, arg54, 
> arg55, arg56,
> arg57,
> > arg58, arg59, arg60, arg61, arg62, arg63, arg64, arg65, 
> arg66, arg67,
> arg68,
> > arg69, arg70, arg71, arg72, arg73, arg74, arg75, arg76, 
> arg77, arg78,
> arg79,
> > arg80, arg81, arg82, arg83, arg84, arg85, arg86, arg87, 
> arg88, arg89,
> arg90,
> > arg91, arg92, arg93, arg94, arg95, arg96, arg97, arg98, 
> arg99, arg100)".
> >
> > Do you get the impression that Oracle is just too damn lazy 
> to update
> their
> > syntax parser?
> 
> I don't see anything wrong with it - I thank god (every 
> night) that Oracle
> has so many features and controls and hasn't hidden them away 
> from us. If
> you want to do things easy - use OEM and get SQL & PL/SQL 
> execution commands
> from it using "Show SQL".
> 
> Tanel.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
> -- 
> Author: Tanel Poder
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
> -
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
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> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
> 
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RE: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Benny Pei
How is streams compared to Shareplex?  Anyone done
that? We are going to compare these two products in
the next few months.

benny

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Check that you have the newest  Oracle streams
> manual - the one on OTN
> (released towards the end of last year). It's much
> better than the manual
> that shipped with the version of Oracle 9 that we
> received.
>  There's also an OTN technical forum dedicated to
> streams.
> chaim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Robson, Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@fatcity.com on
> 08/13/2003 01:34:32 PM
> 
> Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Sent by:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> cc:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps a vague reply, but FWIW I attended a
> half-day presentation workshop
> held by Oracle UK on Streams several months ago, and
> was very impressed,
> both with Streams and their workshop. They seemed to
> have got a much better
> user interface than normal replication provides, and
> also seemed to address
> some of the technical shortcomings of basic
> replication.
> 
> I would say the product is certainly worth spending
> a little more time on
> to
> check it more closely against your requirements.
> 
> peter
> edinburgh
> 
> -Original Message-
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:04 PM
> To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
> 
> 
> 
> Hello,
> 
> env: Oracle 9.2.0.3 on Solaris.
> I am looking for any comments, good or bad,
> regarding Oracle Streams.
> We are considering using this to transfer data
> between some 9.2
> databases on multiple Sun machines, and hope that
> someone would share
> their experience with us. Our rationale for using
> this as opposed to
> other replication methods is:
> 1) streams uses log-based capture
> 2) captures DDL and DML
> 3) appears to be Oracle's future direction
> 
> I have scanned the Oracle Streams documentation. A
> google search
> and a Technet search turned up a few (mainly
> non-technical) papers. I
> could not find any books on this subject.
> 
> I have just vague questions at this point:
> 1) Are the Oracle docs a good source for setting
> this up? Do they omit
>any important information?
> 2) Are there any additional sources of helpful
> information?
> 3) Did you encounter any unexpected problems when
> configuring this tool?
> 4) Can you provider any measure (subjective is fine)
> of performance?
> 5) How painful is this to maintain?
> Thanks for any responses.
> 
> --
> Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
> http://www.orafaq.net
> --
> Author:
>   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051
> http://www.fatcity.com
> San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web
> hosting services
>
-
> To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an
> E-Mail message
> to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
> 'ListGuru') and in
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> ORACLE-L
> (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed
> from).  You may
> also send the HELP command for other information
> (like subscribing).
> 
> 
>
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>  with  it, are
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> this message was not addressed to  you, you have
> received it in error
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> any part  of it is
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> are solely those
> of the sender and do not necessarily represent 
> those of the British
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> guaranteed and the BGS accepts no liability  for
> claims arising as a
> result of the use of this medium to  transmit
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Re: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Prasada . Gunda

Hi,

I also started looking into Oracle streams for change data capture
framework. My research is still in the beginning phase.

I found that there is nice article (3 part series) on Change data capture
using Oracle streams.
Here is the link :
http://www.dbasupport.com/oracle//ora9i/datacapture.shtml

Also, there is a discussion forum on Oracle streams in Oracle Technet.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Prasad
860 843 8377


   

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  dclinic.org  To:   Multiple recipients of 
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
  Sent by: cc: 

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:  streams comments  

   

   

  08/13/2003 01:04 PM  

  Please respond to

  ORACLE-L 

   

   






Hello,

env: Oracle 9.2.0.3 on Solaris.
I am looking for any comments, good or bad, regarding Oracle Streams.
We are considering using this to transfer data between some 9.2
databases on multiple Sun machines, and hope that someone would share
their experience with us. Our rationale for using this as opposed to
other replication methods is:
1) streams uses log-based capture
2) captures DDL and DML
3) appears to be Oracle's future direction

I have scanned the Oracle Streams documentation. A google search
and a Technet search turned up a few (mainly non-technical) papers. I
could not find any books on this subject.

I have just vague questions at this point:
1) Are the Oracle docs a good source for setting this up? Do they omit
   any important information?
2) Are there any additional sources of helpful information?
3) Did you encounter any unexpected problems when configuring this tool?
4) Can you provider any measure (subjective is fine) of performance?
5) How painful is this to maintain?
Thanks for any responses.

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author:
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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San Diego, California-- Mailing list and web hosting services
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also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).





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RE: streams comments

2003-08-14 Thread Robson, Peter

Perhaps a vague reply, but FWIW I attended a half-day presentation workshop
held by Oracle UK on Streams several months ago, and was very impressed,
both with Streams and their workshop. They seemed to have got a much better
user interface than normal replication provides, and also seemed to address
some of the technical shortcomings of basic replication.

I would say the product is certainly worth spending a little more time on to
check it more closely against your requirements.

peter
edinburgh

-Original Message-
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 6:04 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L



Hello,

env: Oracle 9.2.0.3 on Solaris.
I am looking for any comments, good or bad, regarding Oracle Streams.
We are considering using this to transfer data between some 9.2
databases on multiple Sun machines, and hope that someone would share
their experience with us. Our rationale for using this as opposed to
other replication methods is:
1) streams uses log-based capture 
2) captures DDL and DML
3) appears to be Oracle's future direction

I have scanned the Oracle Streams documentation. A google search
and a Technet search turned up a few (mainly non-technical) papers. I
could not find any books on this subject.

I have just vague questions at this point:
1) Are the Oracle docs a good source for setting this up? Do they omit
   any important information? 
2) Are there any additional sources of helpful information? 
3) Did you encounter any unexpected problems when configuring this tool?
4) Can you provider any measure (subjective is fine) of performance?
5) How painful is this to maintain?
Thanks for any responses.

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Re: streams comments

2003-08-19 Thread alan . aschenbrenner

Bill,

I'm in the initial stages of researching Oracle Streams as well.  And
like most people, I'm skeptical about jumping in and using a new Oracle
feature.  Did you get any useful responses?  Anything about performance,
maintainability, etc?
Does anyone else have experiences they can share?

Thanks,

Alan

---
Alan Aschenbrenner
Oracle DBA
IHS Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




   

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  dclinic.org  To:   Multiple recipients of 
list ORACLE-L <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>   
  Sent by: cc: 

  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject:  streams comments  

   

   

  08/13/03 11:04 AM

  Please respond to

  ORACLE-L 

   

   






Hello,

env: Oracle 9.2.0.3 on Solaris.
I am looking for any comments, good or bad, regarding Oracle Streams.
We are considering using this to transfer data between some 9.2
databases on multiple Sun machines, and hope that someone would share
their experience with us. Our rationale for using this as opposed to
other replication methods is:
1) streams uses log-based capture
2) captures DDL and DML
3) appears to be Oracle's future direction

I have scanned the Oracle Streams documentation. A google search
and a Technet search turned up a few (mainly non-technical) papers. I
could not find any books on this subject.

I have just vague questions at this point:
1) Are the Oracle docs a good source for setting this up? Do they omit
   any important information?
2) Are there any additional sources of helpful information?
3) Did you encounter any unexpected problems when configuring this tool?
4) Can you provider any measure (subjective is fine) of performance?
5) How painful is this to maintain?
Thanks for any responses.

--
Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
--
Author:
  INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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