[OGD] Extinction, not Entrapment

2004-10-12 Thread Peter O'Byrne 
Bert,

thanks for clarifying your earlier comment no orchid species is truly in
danger of extinction. It is useful to know that this was based an urban
legend rather than any properly conducted survey. Also good to know that you
have no suggestions about how I could measure the endangearedness of a
species.

You asked me if I'd agree with:

I might have put it that no orchid species is truly in danger of being
rendered extinct by overcollection,  even if its natural habitat is
stripped, unless counterproductive  restrictions such as CITES interfere
with its artificial propagation.  Would you agree, Peter?

Bert, this question reminds me of the trial lawyer who said to Joe Bloggs
the defendant do you always mug your victims before you snatch their bags,
and is your name Joe Bloggs ? Give a simple yes or no answer to my
question.

I think you already know the answer to the first question, since I have, on
several occasions, posted on OGD a list of species that have been rendered
extinct by overcollection.

In response to the premise that underlies your statement: I do not consider
keeping orchids in greenhouses thousands of kilometers away from their
natural habitats to be a viable method of long-term conservation, and a
dubious method of short-term conservation. But you knew that before you
asked, didn't you ?

I think you are also only too aware that I consider CITES to be a highly
necessary set of laws that need to be focused, clarified and strengthened in
order to be really effective in countering the commercial-scale plant
smuggling that is commonplace amongst some orchid-nursery operators (and
others) in several parts of the world.

I may have been less vocal on OGD recently, but I haven't changed my spots
 any of them.

Finally, you said If the damage to Norris was truly done by a computer
traffic monitor, are any of us safe?. Bert, there is no such thing as
safety in this world; it is an intrinsically dangerous place. Carnivore has
just made it a lot more dangerous for everyone in the USA something that
Saddam Hussain could never manage, no matter how President Bush twists the
truth. I think George Orwell said it first: Big Brother is watching YOU.

Cheers,

Peter O'Byrne
Singapore

BTW  if you want to tackle the problem of Carnivore (and I would, if I
lived in the USA), can I suggest you modify one of Mahatma Gandhi's best
ideas ?  Persuade everyone you know to persuade everyone they know to take
part. Get everyone to add Carnivore-sensitive keywords to every e-mail they
send. Give the bloody program a severe case of indigestion.
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[OGD] Extinction and Entrapment

2004-10-11 Thread BCPRESS 
With regard to my source of information  about orchid species extinction 
[Peter O'Byrne, OGD V6 #423 Message 6], it is  based on facts we all know.  If 
orchid fanciers find a given orchid species  of interest, entrepreneurs will 
propagate it artificially until all  desires are fulfilled. 
 My comments to the OGD are usually as  terse as I can manage.  It is 
conceivable that a given orchid species would  have a habitat unusual enough to 
make artificial propagation difficult, but  under such circumstances, 
collectors are unlikely to bother stripping it  from a limited habitat.  If an orchid 
is too uninteresting to prompt  artificial propagation, presumably it likewise 
won't be stripped from its  habitat.  If I chose to be more precise, I might 
have put it that no  orchid species is truly in danger of being rendered 
extinct by overcollection,  even if its natural habitat is stripped, unless 
counterproductive  restrictions such as CITES interfere with its artificial  
propagation.  Would you agree, Peter?
With regard to considering the aggressive  posture of USFWL as the 
source of Norris' problems rather than a routine  computer traffic monitor, I am 
suspicious if only for the situation involving  Pepe Portilla a couple of years 
ago.  The scuttlebutt is that a  USFWL agent ordered 10 cycads of a variant 
of a Peruvian cycad that grows  in Columbia.  Pepe supplied the requested 
plants with CITES covering the  Peruvian variant, was nabbed in California and his 
life made  miserable.  This same USFWL agent was caught trespassing Andy  
Phillips' nursery in California and, as told by Andy, was persuaded to  leave by 
means of a 2 x 4 piece of lumber.  If the damage to Norris was  truly done by 
a computer traffic monitor, are any of us safe?
My sense of fairness is particularly  offended by attempts to tar the 
consciencious Miami Ag Inspection Facility with  the same brush more 
appropriately reserved for the USFWL agency  and its handmaiden, the CITES convention.
  
  Bert  Pressman
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