Re: [OGD] Stripping the woods again...
Just a thought, although you have probably tried it - if you follow the link (you may need to copy and paste it and be signed in to e bay) there is a link on this page where you can report listing violations of prohibited plants and seeds. http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/plantsandseeds.html Negative feedback would slow them up , but without buying I dont know how you could manage this! hope this helps - Helen David S. wrote: Last year I wrote about a seller on eBay that was auctioning mass quantities of Cypripedium acaule. I'm talking about up to 15 lots of 300 plants, along with very large quantities of smaller lots. Their seller name is kyatvrider, which I interpret to mean Kentucky All-Terrain Vehicle rider. I tracked down them to Chase's Plants Prints from McKee, Kentucky, which is what they called themselves last year. They now have a website: http://www.pinkladyslippers.com/ . I don't know of any reputable nursery that would have quantities like this available, much less sell them on eBay, so I assume that, with the help of an ATV or two, they are stripping the woods. They do state that they ship when they come up and I'm sure are shipped bareroot. This area of southeastern Kentucky is a heavily forested area (except for the strip coal mines). They also seem to be stripping the forests of mosses and other wildflowers. According to WHOIS, they've now cloaked their domain name through an Australian company, so their current contact info can't be found. I'm sure it is unchanged from last year when I was able to get it. Then, it was the following: Organisation Name: Mark Farmer Org. Address: 140 Quail Run Estates, McKee, KY 40447 Admin Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Admin Phone: 1-606-287-4923 From what I gathered last year, they are not a licensed nursery, which is required in Kentucky in order to ship plants. They are required to accompany each shipment with a copy of an inspection certificate or license certified by the state entomologist. I sent this seller the following email through eBay last year, but received no response (surprise!): == Hello, I have a number of questions about the Cypripedium acaule orchids that you are auctioning: 1. Are you a licensed nursery in the state of Kentucky, compliant to KY Law 249.060? 2. Are you compliant with KY Law 249.090: Shipments to be accompanied by inspection certificate or license? 3. You are not in the database of Kentucky Certified plant Nurseries or plant Dealers under the name of Chase's Plants and Prints. To sell these orchids and other plants without being licensed is against the law in Kentucky. 4. Do you own the land that these orchids and moss are being removed from? These orchids that you're selling a among the hardest species in America to transplant and have a typical failure rate of over 90% to survive beyond one year. They are also quite rare in most parts of the country. Please reconsider selling these plants, especially in the massive quantities that you are offering. I sent emails to Joe Collins, a Kentucky nursery inspector located at the University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY, who said he would look into it. I didn't receive any sort of followup from him. It seems the state only has him and one other fellow to handle the whole state. Joe Collins Nursery Inspector S-225 Agriculture Science Center - North Department of Entomology, University of Kentucky Lexington, KY 40546-0091 (859) 257-5838; Fax: (859) 257-3807 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/NurseryInspection This is the link to the sellers eBay store so you can see for yourselves what he's offering: http://stores.ebay.com/pinkladyslippers_W0QQssPageNameZl2QQtZkm Does anyone have any ideas of how to put pressure on this eBay seller to stop this terrible practice? Any help would be appreciated. David S. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Stripping the woods again...
Last year I wrote about a seller on eBay that was auctioning mass quantities of Cypripedium acaule. I'm talking about up to 15 lots of 300 plants, along with very large quantities of smaller lots. Their seller name is kyatvrider, which I interpret to mean Kentucky All-Terrain Vehicle rider. I tracked down them to Chase's Plants Prints from McKee, Kentucky, which is what they called themselves last year. They now have a website: http://www.pinkladyslippers.com/ . I don't know of any reputable nursery that would have quantities like this available, much less sell them on eBay, so I assume that, with the help of an ATV or two, they are stripping the woods. They do state that they ship when they come up and I'm sure are shipped bareroot. This area of southeastern Kentucky is a heavily forested area (except for the strip coal mines). They also seem to be stripping the forests of mosses and other wildflowers. According to WHOIS, they've now cloaked their domain name through an Australian company, so their current contact info can't be found. I'm sure it is unchanged from last year when I was able to get it. Then, it was the following: Organisation Name: Mark Farmer Org. Address: 140 Quail Run Estates, McKee, KY 40447 Admin Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Admin Phone: 1-606-287-4923 From what I gathered last year, they are not a licensed nursery, which is required in Kentucky in order to ship plants. They are required to accompany each shipment with a copy of an inspection certificate or license certified by the state entomologist. I sent this seller the following email through eBay last year, but received no response (surprise!): == Hello, I have a number of questions about the Cypripedium acaule orchids that you are auctioning: 1. Are you a licensed nursery in the state of Kentucky, compliant to KY Law 249.060? 2. Are you compliant with KY Law 249.090: Shipments to be accompanied by inspection certificate or license? 3. You are not in the database of Kentucky Certified plant Nurseries or plant Dealers under the name of Chase's Plants and Prints. To sell these orchids and other plants without being licensed is against the law in Kentucky. 4. Do you own the land that these orchids and moss are being removed from? These orchids that you're selling a among the hardest species in America to transplant and have a typical failure rate of over 90% to survive beyond one year. They are also quite rare in most parts of the country. Please reconsider selling these plants, especially in the massive quantities that you are offering. I sent emails to Joe Collins, a Kentucky nursery inspector located at the University of Kentucky, Lexington, KY, who said he would look into it. I didn't receive any sort of followup from him. It seems the state only has him and one other fellow to handle the whole state. Joe Collins Nursery Inspector S-225 Agriculture Science Center - North Department of Entomology, University of Kentucky Lexington, KY 40546-0091 (859) 257-5838; Fax: (859) 257-3807 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.uky.edu/Agriculture/NurseryInspection This is the link to the sellers eBay store so you can see for yourselves what he's offering: http://stores.ebay.com/pinkladyslippers_W0QQssPageNameZl2QQtZkm Does anyone have any ideas of how to put pressure on this eBay seller to stop this terrible practice? Any help would be appreciated. David S. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) orchids@orchidguide.com http://orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids_orchidguide.com
[OGD] Stripping the woods ... bullshitters missing
Guys, It certainly looks as if the Kentucky All-Terrain Rider Chase is stripping the woods. If so, I hope some of you guys close to KY can burn both him and his operation .. good luck to you. What is puzzling me about this is the response on OGD. There is something missing ... actually, some people missing failing to have their usually-vociferous say on the matter. If these reports were describing asset-stripping in Peru, Vietnam, Outer-Mongolia, or other places where the stars don't surmount the stripes, certain OGD readers (we know who you are, guys) would have been treated to all of the following bullshit justifications: 1a) The plants are wasted in the woods. They ought to be brought into the safety of my greenhouse. 1b) Only the lucky few can get to enjoy them in the woods. If they're in my greenhouse, more people can enjoy their beauty. 1c) They don't really like growing in the woods. Its a tough, dangerous life out there. They're so much better-off in my greenhouse where they get everything they need ... light, water, fertilizer, music on demand, pollinia from a wide range of exotics, etc. 1d) Hey, they're endangered. They should be collected and grown in nurseries, where the professionals can propogate them and make them available to us, thus eliminating the need to collect them from the wild. 2a) God gave Man Dominion over Plants and Animals. I have the RIGHT to take those plants. 2b) God gave me the right to take what I need from the world. I NEED those plants for my *** program (fill in the missing word yourself). 3a) The plants are endangered in the woods. For their own safety they need to be brought into my greenhouse. 3b) Everyone knows that habitat destruction is everywhere. It is only a matter of time before they turn the Kentucky Woodlands into a carpark. We should save the plants now while we can. 3c) It is salvage. How can anyone be opposed to salvaging plants that are going to die anyway ? 4a) If Chase doesn't take them now, someone else will next year. He's a local, so why shouldn't locals profit from their flora ? After all, it belongs to them. 4b) If Chase doesn't take them now, the Outer Mongolians will come and steal the lot. Who has more right to the plants ? 5a) I can afford it. No-one has the right to stop me spending my money however I want to. 5b) I'm a citizen of Outer Mongolia. No foreigner has the right to tell me what I can and cannot do. 6) Kentucky has no right to keep these plants. People in Outer-Mongolia are being unjustly deprived of their share of these plants by the oppressive KY/US-Federal conservation laws, which were foistered on us by an International conspiracy. Everyone should write to G.W.Bush, demanding that he (a) rescinds the KY/US-Federal conservation laws, (b) pulls the USA out of CITES, (c) declares sanctions on KY, (d) tells those (fill in your own expletive) bastards in KY where to get off. 7) KY is a poor state. They can't afford to protect their own flora properly. Since the plants are getting no protection in KY, they should be sent to other states that can do the job properly. 8) It is all CITES fault. They are supposed to be conserving orchids. Can anyone tell me a single orchid species that has been saved by CITES ? 9) (Yawn), it is all CITES fault (again). 10) Hey, audience-participation time. Fill in your own favorite excuse and post it on OGD. So come on, all you right-wing bullshitters. Why have you gone so quiet ? You're missing a great chance to show us how multilateral and even-handed you really are. Or is it different when its happening in your own backwood patch ? Peter O'Byrne Singapore PS My apologies to anyone from Outer Mongolia for my misuse of your name. You have a truly beautiful country. ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
[OGD] Stripping the woods
David, your All-Terrain rider is no chemist. Check his pH desciptions: 4.5 or below (very acidic) 4.6 to 5.0 (highly acidic) 5.1 to 5.5 (strongly acidic). Following this system, you'd soon arrive at: pH 7 (strips the skin off your hands). Peter O'Byrne Singapore ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] Stripping the Woods
At 08:17 PM 7/26/2004 -0500, you wrote: I guess it depends on what woods are being stripped. If it's private property with the owner's permission or their own property, then the removal of plants is perfectly legal in most states. If these plants are still part of the Paph, Phrag, Selenipedium complex, then they are on CITES Appendix I and wild collecting of them should be a violation of CITES as well as our ESA and the Lacey Act. Cypripedium are not listed as App 1, even though there are many rare true Cyps in China, and surrounding countries. Whatever the case, local flora are protected by state law, and most state laws allow collecting of wild plants on private property. Of course, I know you said this very tongue-in-cheek, George. ---Prem www.premdesign.com ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
Re: [OGD] stripping the woods
I did send the following letter to Carl Harper and Joe Collins of the UK Office of State Entomologist/Kentucky Nursery Inspection: I just wanted to make you aware of a situation going on in your state that you should be aware of. An entity known as Chase's Plants and Prints in McKee, KY is auctioning on eBay very large quantities of Cypripedium acaule, the pink ladyslipper orchid. I'm not talking about a few plants either. They are offering up to 15 lots of 300 plants along with large lot quantities of 100's and 10's. They are also offering massive amounts of ferns and moss. I suspect that the majority of these plants are being stripped from the wild and sold without remorse to the gullible. They do not appear under this name in the list of KY certified nurseries or dealers that's on the website of the UK Office of State Entomologist/Kentucky Nursery Inspection. Would that violate KY laws 249.060 and 249.090? Their username on eBay is telling: kyatvrider (Kentucky All Terrain Vehicle Rider). As you probably already know, this orchid species while locally abundant in some areas, is quite rare throughout the country. It's also extremely difficult to transplant due to the symbiotic nature of the plant and a fungus in the soil. Failures to thrive over one year can exceed 90% after transplantation. They state right on one of their auction pages for a lot of 300 orchids, The difference in our plants and others is they are grown in the woods at our farm not in a nursery and they transplant and live so much better plus we will replace any plant that does not live up to one full year. This page's URL (link may wrap) is: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=42218item=4315104383 The fact that ferns are mosses are also being auctioned in mass quantities means the possibility of erosion problems, not to mention the sheer rape of the woods that these are located in. Even though I'm not a resident of Kentucky, I live just over the mountains in Northeast Tennessee and greatly treasure our unspoiled woodlands and their diverse offerings. If these plants are not being sold legally, I would appreciate your investigation of this matter. At the very least, what they're doing is morally reprehensible and they should be enlightened by someone in authority. Here's the link to their storefront page on eBay. You may click on any of the items listed to get the details (URL may wrap): http://stores.ebay.com/Chases-Plants-and-Prints_W0QQsspagenameZl2QQtZkm It is possible as a state agency/law enforcement body to get their address info from eBay. David A. Sizemore Kingsport, TN [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: CC [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2004 9:08 AM Subject: [OGD] stripping the woods REPORT THEM! Cody Cruise Valley Pest Consulting ___ the OrchidGuide Digest (OGD) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.orchidguide.com/mailman/listinfo/orchids
