RE: Future directions for orion support

2001-04-14 Thread Kemp Randy-W18971

 
There are many ways to handle support issues, and I can give some ideas. An
interesting model is to see what commercial products like Resin
(www.caucho.com) are doing.  They offer several levels of support, based on
different prices, and they have the source code available to customers.
Currently they sell a great JSP engine, with plans to add EJB support in the
future.  So what can Orion learn from them?
1.  They can make the source code available.
2.  They could hire more Java programmers.  I am sure they are in Sweden,
since the Orion team lives there, in addition to Rickard O., a cofounder and
developer of Jboss.
3.  If the source code were available, more people from this list could
become familar with it, and hire themselves out as support consultants.
4.  Make partnerships with other companies to offer support, which would
still mean having the source code available to the companies.
5.  Hire a technical writer to create a manual, equavalent to the jboss
manual.  The sale of one server for $1500 would more then pay for this
effort.
6. Get purchased by a deep pockets company, that has no EJB or JSP products,
and become part of their staff.
I could go on, but ideas are easy to come up with, and are not difficult to
implement.
  Now on to other servers and open source.  Orion is unique, since it can
offer a great commercial server for $1500, and offer features compatible
with BEA.  But while the open source efforts, such as Jboss, Enhydra, Jonas,
and openejb, are still in their infancy, and you may not want to use them
for production now, I personally root for them, encourage them, and in time,
I believe they will offer production quality products that compete with the
big names.  And if Orion keeps on plugging away, they too will be immensely
successful. May the force be with them all. 


-Original Message-
From: Stan Ng
To: Orion-Interest
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 4/13/01 10:09 PM
Subject: Future directions for orion support

A most interesting twist... Hmm... I dunno, this is most unexpected.
It's
probably best to wait a couple days so that Joseph/Magnus can address
this
issue.  Given that Orionsupport went dark today, it seems control of
orionsupport has passed on to the orionserver/Ironflare folks.  That may
indicate a dedicated support site in the near future or it may mean that
community support will now slow to a crawl...

The Orion developers have been mighty quiet.  I really like Orion as a
product and would prefer to see it become immensely successful.
Nevertheless the lack of feedback from Ironflare is disconcerting...
Personally, I'm hedging my bets with jboss

Returning to the core question -- I wholeheartedly agree that better
support
is vital, be it official or community-based.  If no groundbreaking news
comes from Ironflare or orionsupport, I'm all for orionsig.



- Original Message -
From: "Michael J. Cannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:07 PM
Subject: RE: productive comment.


 Another bit of info:

 From NSI WHOIS:


http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=orionsupport.
com
 STRING=Search

 Magnus owns it now.

 NOW WHAT?

 Michael J. Cannon

  -Original Message-
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Stan Ng
  Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:37 PM
  To: Orion-Interest
  Subject: Re: productive comment.
 
 
  I'm all for this idea.  Orionsupport is a community support
  effort run on a
  volunteer basis and I believe that it is hosted on Joseph's
development
  machine using Orion. :) : ) :)  I'd be willing to help shoulder
  some of the
  costs in moving everything over to an ISP host.
 
  There's no need for a new domain, imho... orionsupport has been very
open
  and supportive (no pun intended).  I say that we just give those
  good folks
  a nice place to put everything without tying up their resources.
 
  Community support for Orion has been excellent.  The thing I'm
  worried about
  is how the Orion developers are doing... is there anything we can
  do to help
  out the guys at orionserver/ironflare?
 
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: "Michael J. Cannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:47 PM
  Subject: RE: productive comment.
 
 
   RE: How do we take the next step?
  
   A sig is, classically a _S_pecial _I_nterest _G_roup, in the
computer
   culture.
  
   orionsig.net, orionsig.org and orionsig.com are available.  Pick
'em.
  Don't
   need a license from anyone to be a 'general purpose special
interest
  group,'
   as long as you don't purport to be in any 'special' circumstance
or
make
   unfounded claims or use words that have obvious legal meaning.
  
   I've got a fixed IP, but it's on a slow and restricted
  connection.  I know
   an ISP that is easy to work with, charges $39/mo, knows how to run
  services
   for Java, and is relatively 

RE: Future directions for orion support

2001-04-13 Thread Michael J. Cannon

Nope...as I've just been clued in, MAGNUS HAS ALWAYS OWNED THE DOMAIN...

Please read Mike Cannon-Brookes' (of OrionSupport) answer to me in the
message "OrionSupport - if you care about the 'Orion community', read it!
WAS RE: productive comment."

I think what we're running into this time is the European Easter Holiday,
and we probably won't get any response from IronFlare/Orion or OrionSupport
resolution until after that's over.  However, some things are going on
behind the scenes and THIS TIME WE'RE GOING TO FIX THIS FOR GOOD!

To the cynics out there, no, this isn't some Wizard of Oz "Pay no attention
to the man behind the curtain..." or business skullduggery.  To fix this, we
need to go off-line, for reasons that should be obvious to all of you now.
But IT WILL BE FIXED.

I apologize to those I may have offended with my posts and, as usual, my
impatience.  My only excuse is my true love for the product and my present
involvement in a small part of it.

Please be patient, all and we will work this out.

Michael J. Cannon
Project Manager, COO
hsql.org (formerly HyperSonicSQL)

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Stan Ng
 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 10:10 PM
 To: Orion-Interest
 Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Future directions for orion support


 A most interesting twist... Hmm... I dunno, this is most unexpected.  It's
 probably best to wait a couple days so that Joseph/Magnus can address this
 issue.  Given that Orionsupport went dark today, it seems control of
 orionsupport has passed on to the orionserver/Ironflare folks.  That may
 indicate a dedicated support site in the near future or it may mean that
 community support will now slow to a crawl...

 The Orion developers have been mighty quiet.  I really like Orion as a
 product and would prefer to see it become immensely successful.
 Nevertheless the lack of feedback from Ironflare is disconcerting...
 Personally, I'm hedging my bets with jboss

 Returning to the core question -- I wholeheartedly agree that
 better support
 is vital, be it official or community-based.  If no groundbreaking news
 comes from Ironflare or orionsupport, I'm all for orionsig.



 - Original Message -
 From: "Michael J. Cannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 6:07 PM
 Subject: RE: productive comment.


  Another bit of info:
 
  From NSI WHOIS:
 
 
 http://www.networksolutions.com/cgi-bin/whois/whois?STRING=orionsu
 pport.com
  STRING=Search
 
  Magnus owns it now.
 
  NOW WHAT?
 
  Michael J. Cannon
 
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Stan Ng
   Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 5:37 PM
   To: Orion-Interest
   Subject: Re: productive comment.
  
  
   I'm all for this idea.  Orionsupport is a community support
   effort run on a
   volunteer basis and I believe that it is hosted on Joseph's
 development
   machine using Orion. :) : ) :)  I'd be willing to help shoulder
   some of the
   costs in moving everything over to an ISP host.
  
   There's no need for a new domain, imho... orionsupport has been very
 open
   and supportive (no pun intended).  I say that we just give those
   good folks
   a nice place to put everything without tying up their resources.
  
   Community support for Orion has been excellent.  The thing I'm
   worried about
   is how the Orion developers are doing... is there anything we can
   do to help
   out the guys at orionserver/ironflare?
  
  
  
   - Original Message -
   From: "Michael J. Cannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: "Orion-Interest" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 10:47 PM
   Subject: RE: productive comment.
  
  
RE: How do we take the next step?
   
A sig is, classically a _S_pecial _I_nterest _G_roup, in
 the computer
culture.
   
orionsig.net, orionsig.org and orionsig.com are available.
 Pick 'em.
   Don't
need a license from anyone to be a 'general purpose special interest
   group,'
as long as you don't purport to be in any 'special' circumstance or
 make
unfounded claims or use words that have obvious legal meaning.
   
I've got a fixed IP, but it's on a slow and restricted
   connection.  I know
an ISP that is easy to work with, charges $39/mo, knows how to run
   services
for Java, and is relatively small and responsive, and
 accesses through
 a
multiple T3 (second-tier backbone access, they're actually a
   small CLEC).
They also are an accredited registrar for all the above TLD's
   (turn-around
is typically about 24 hours to propagate through BIND/DNS and the
   internic).
I'd be willing to donate the first six months worth of host costs,
 and,
after 30 days, pay for the Orion license myself (gotta run
 the site on
Orion, don't we?) with these guys or anyone better.
   
Let's just DO IT.  Anyone else want to help?