Re: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
You'd better, they're rather heavy. =) - Original Message - From: "Jeff Schnitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 12:10 PM Subject: RE: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > >Dude, do you really think a Swedish company with a handful of employees > >is going to be able to field a worldwide army of training > >professionals? > > It just occurred to me that this sounds rather bad... I was trying to > imply that it would be unlikely for such training professionals to be > sent all the way around the world to Florida, which is where I seem to > recall the poster saying he was from. Somehow that got lost in the > edits. Really, I did not mean to cast aspersions on Swedish companies! > :-) :-) :-) > > > > Jeff >
RE: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
>Dude, do you really think a Swedish company with a handful of employees >is going to be able to field a worldwide army of training >professionals? It just occurred to me that this sounds rather bad... I was trying to imply that it would be unlikely for such training professionals to be sent all the way around the world to Florida, which is where I seem to recall the poster saying he was from. Somehow that got lost in the edits. Really, I did not mean to cast aspersions on Swedish companies! :-) :-) :-) Jeff
RE: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
Dude, do you really think a Swedish company with a handful of employees is going to be able to field a worldwide army of training professionals? My guess is that the entire world population of Orion experts is reading this right now; depending on where you are, a nicely phrased request and an offering of beer might turn up a few volunteers :-) Orion is already free for noncommercial use, so your licensing is covered. But do realize that Orion, at least organizationally, is closer to a community-supported open source project than a BEA. Maybe that will change at some point. Jeff >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:41 PM >To: Orion-Interest >Cc: Orion-Interest >Subject: Re: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > >All, >Running a training program for EJB's gives me a different >perspective when dealing with EJB application vendors like >Orion. My experience is that they (expensive vendors like BEA >) offer institutions like mine free licences and trainers in >the hopes that newly educated programmers would evangelize >their products. I have repeatedly asked for assistance in >training engineers in EJB's using the Orion product. They >have refused to answer. All we ask is that they provide us >with a single license so that we may set up an interactive >training site for distance education for a "Java and the >Internet Course". > >If they truly wish to educate java-programers in Orion, you'd >think they'd jump at this. We charge no money for training, >and we benefit the independant learner in the ways of >programming EJB's with Orion. > >This course is open to all, but Orion's lack of response means >none of us can gain from it. > >If you would like to learn more about the mystery of EJB'S, >LET ORION KNOW. We need your help. > >Mike Van >C.E.O. JUGerNaut > >> Original Message --- >>From: Kemp Randy-W18971 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? >> >> >> I don't knock the higher priced products, and they do have >the lion's share of the market, and many large companies run >big applications on them. Personally, I feel as many low >price (Orion) and open source (jboss, etc.) mature, more >people will ride that path. Look at the history of Apache, >and now 60 % of the world's servers run it. Developers see >that the low priced and open source options are maturing and >proving themselves. It's just a matter of time. >> >>-Original Message- >>From: Konstantin Polyzois >>To: Orion-Interest >>Sent: 2/13/01 6:56 AM >>Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? >> >>"Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great..." >> >>Speaking as someone who has done development using Websphere (3.0 & >>3.02): >>It sucks! Don't use it for anything but JSP or servlets. It >has so many >>flaws that I don't even want to get in to them!! >> >>/korre >> >>-Original Message- >>From: Kemp Randy-W18971 >>To: Orion-Interest >>Sent: 2001-02-12 13:58 >>Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? >> >> >>Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are >great, if you >>want to pay the price. They come with nice tools like front >end gui's, >>good documentation, paid support, etc. But if you look for >the opinions >>of developers who have used these products, and compared them >to Orion, >>jboss, etc., they would say the EJB capacies are no better then the >>other high priced products. In order of ranking, here's how I look at >>the other products. >>1 Orion -- This product is ready now, but I haven't seen anyone from >>this list run a Sears store on it. >>2. Jboss (www.jboss.org) -- The founders are very bright, have five >>hundred developers on the projects, have EJB heavies >contributing to the >>list, and it's a very easy to use product. Personally, even though it >>is ready for production now, I would wait for it to mature a bit more. >>It's like a fine wine -- drink it now, and it is OK, or allow >it to age >>a bit then drink it (like jboss 3.0 final). >>3. Openejb (www.openejb.org) - this project has a very bright and well >>known person heading it, and it is slated to be intergrated >with Tomcat >>and Apache. It has yet to prove itself, as it is not yet ready for >>production release. But it has good future promise. >>4. Jonas (www.evidian.c
RE: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
I am sorry, but I don't quite understand how training of EJB on Orion is any different than that of other platforms? You are trainging EJB, not the vendor application server. EJB is EJB, no matter what platform it runs on. If every vendor adhered to the spec as they should, an EJB will run on any app server. Also, are you providing an online service that teaches over the internet and you need Orion to run that site? Or do you have in-class instruction and each person in the class needs to use Orion? I am unclear as to why you only need one license? Orion is free to use for all purposes other than production use. I am not sure that an inclass training counts for production use or not. I am still stumped on why it is you need Orion specific EJB training. > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 9:41 PM > To: Orion-Interest > Cc: Orion-Interest > Subject: Re: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > All, > Running a training program for EJB's gives me a different > perspective when dealing with EJB application vendors like Orion. > My experience is that they (expensive vendors like BEA ) offer > institutions like mine free licences and trainers in the hopes > that newly educated programmers would evangelize their products. > I have repeatedly asked for assistance in training engineers in > EJB's using the Orion product. They have refused to answer. All > we ask is that they provide us with a single license so that we > may set up an interactive training site for distance education > for a "Java and the Internet Course". > > If they truly wish to educate java-programers in Orion, you'd > think they'd jump at this. We charge no money for training, and > we benefit the independant learner in the ways of programming > EJB's with Orion. > > This course is open to all, but Orion's lack of response means > none of us can gain from it. > > If you would like to learn more about the mystery of EJB'S, LET > ORION KNOW. We need your help. > > Mike Van > C.E.O. JUGerNaut > > > Original Message --- > >From: Kemp Randy-W18971 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > > > > I don't knock the higher priced products, and they do have the > lion's share of the market, and many large companies run big > applications on them. Personally, I feel as many low price > (Orion) and open source (jboss, etc.) mature, more people will > ride that path. Look at the history of Apache, and now 60 % of > the world's servers run it. Developers see that the low priced > and open source options are maturing and proving themselves. > It's just a matter of time. > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Konstantin Polyzois > >To: Orion-Interest > >Sent: 2/13/01 6:56 AM > >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > >"Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great..." > > > >Speaking as someone who has done development using Websphere (3.0 & > >3.02): > >It sucks! Don't use it for anything but JSP or servlets. It has so many > >flaws that I don't even want to get in to them!! > > > >/korre > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Kemp Randy-W18971 > >To: Orion-Interest > >Sent: 2001-02-12 13:58 > >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > > > >Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great, if you > >want to pay the price. They come with nice tools like front end gui's, > >good documentation, paid support, etc. But if you look for the opinions > >of developers who have used these products, and compared them to Orion, > >jboss, etc., they would say the EJB capacies are no better then the > >other high priced products. In order of ranking, here's how I look at > >the other products. > >1 Orion -- This product is ready now, but I haven't seen anyone from > >this list run a Sears store on it. > >2. Jboss (www.jboss.org) -- The founders are very bright, have five > >hundred developers on the projects, have EJB heavies contributing to the > >list, and it's a very easy to use product. Personally, even though it > >is ready for production now, I would wait for it to mature a bit more. > >It's like a fine wine -- drink it now, and it is OK, or allow it to age > >a bit then drink it (like jboss 3.0 final). > >3. Openejb (www.openejb.org) - this project has a very bright and well > >known pers
Re: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > All, Running a training program for EJB's gives me a different > perspective when dealing with EJB application vendors like Orion. My > experience is that they (expensive vendors like BEA ) offer > institutions like mine free licences and trainers in the hopes that > newly educated programmers would evangelize their products. I have > repeatedly asked for assistance in training engineers in EJB's using > the Orion product. They have refused to answer. All we ask is that > they provide us with a single license so that we may set up an > interactive training site for distance education for a "Java and the > Internet Course". Couple of things: why are you training programmers in a specification -- and gearing towards a given container? Doesn't that sound slightly counter-productive? (In theory, the container shouldn't matter. That doesn't quite hold true in practice, but the situation is improving, provided trainers don't spend all their time teaching people how to write EJBs for a specific contain- oops.) Are you selling this course? If you are, it sounds like you'd need to purchase a license, indeed. I would think that Orion's extremely low cost would be a non-deterrent, but your organization certainly has to choose where it spends its dollars, I suppose... and I'd always wonder why you demanded a free license when a normal license was so inexpensive. > If they truly wish to educate java-programers in Orion, you'd think > they'd jump at this. We charge no money for training, and we benefit > the independant learner in the ways of programming EJB's with Orion. See above re: "Orion" v. "J2EE" -- J2EE is a lot more productive in the long run. > This course is open to all, but Orion's lack of response means none of > us can gain from it. Why? I don't see why they should be expected to respond. Their "response' has already been made: "We'll provide an awesome app server for less than anyone else with a comparable product." Now you expect them to bend over backwards for you, too, so you can teach programmers how to write to a specific platform instead of the spec to which ALL similar platforms are supposed to conform? > If you would like to learn more about the mystery of EJB'S, LET ORION > KNOW. We need your help. They're mysteries? > Mike Van > C.E.O. JUGerNaut > > > Original Message --- > >From: Kemp Randy-W18971 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > > > > I don't knock the higher priced products, and they do have the lion's share of the >market, and many large companies run big applications on them. Personally, I feel as >many low price (Orion) and open source (jboss, etc.) mature, more people will ride >that path. Look at the history of Apache, and now 60 % of the world's servers run >it. Developers see that the low priced and open source options are maturing and >proving themselves. It's just a matter of time. > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Konstantin Polyzois > >To: Orion-Interest > >Sent: 2/13/01 6:56 AM > >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > >"Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great..." > > > >Speaking as someone who has done development using Websphere (3.0 & > >3.02): > >It sucks! Don't use it for anything but JSP or servlets. It has so many > >flaws that I don't even want to get in to them!! > > > >/korre > > > >-Original Message- > >From: Kemp Randy-W18971 > >To: Orion-Interest > >Sent: 2001-02-12 13:58 > >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > > > >Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great, if you > >want to pay the price. They come with nice tools like front end gui's, > >good documentation, paid support, etc. But if you look for the opinions > >of developers who have used these products, and compared them to Orion, > >jboss, etc., they would say the EJB capacies are no better then the > >other high priced products. In order of ranking, here's how I look at > >the other products. > >1 Orion -- This product is ready now, but I haven't seen anyone from > >this list run a Sears store on it. > >2. Jboss (www.jboss.org) -- The founders are very bright, have five > >hundred developers on the projects, have EJB heavies contributing to the > >list, and it's a very easy to use product. Personally, even though it > >is ready for production now, I would wait for it to mature a bit more. > >It's like a fine wine -- drink it now, and it is OK, or allow it to age > >a bit then drink it (like jboss 3.0 final). > >3. Openejb (www.openejb.org) - this project has a very bright and well > >known person heading it, and it is slated to be intergrated with Tomcat > >and Apache. It has yet to prove itself, as it is not yet ready for > >production release. But it has good future promise. > >4. Jonas (www.evidian.com/jonas) - This is a good product, but it is not > >as advanced as the o
Re: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
All, Running a training program for EJB's gives me a different perspective when dealing with EJB application vendors like Orion. My experience is that they (expensive vendors like BEA ) offer institutions like mine free licences and trainers in the hopes that newly educated programmers would evangelize their products. I have repeatedly asked for assistance in training engineers in EJB's using the Orion product. They have refused to answer. All we ask is that they provide us with a single license so that we may set up an interactive training site for distance education for a "Java and the Internet Course". If they truly wish to educate java-programers in Orion, you'd think they'd jump at this. We charge no money for training, and we benefit the independant learner in the ways of programming EJB's with Orion. This course is open to all, but Orion's lack of response means none of us can gain from it. If you would like to learn more about the mystery of EJB'S, LET ORION KNOW. We need your help. Mike Van C.E.O. JUGerNaut > Original Message --- >From: Kemp Randy-W18971 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > I don't knock the higher priced products, and they do have the lion's share of the >market, and many large companies run big applications on them. Personally, I feel as >many low price (Orion) and open source (jboss, etc.) mature, more people will ride >that path. Look at the history of Apache, and now 60 % of the world's servers run >it. Developers see that the low priced and open source options are maturing and >proving themselves. It's just a matter of time. > >-Original Message- >From: Konstantin Polyzois >To: Orion-Interest >Sent: 2/13/01 6:56 AM >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > >"Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great..." > >Speaking as someone who has done development using Websphere (3.0 & >3.02): >It sucks! Don't use it for anything but JSP or servlets. It has so many >flaws that I don't even want to get in to them!! > >/korre > >-Original Message- >From: Kemp Randy-W18971 >To: Orion-Interest >Sent: 2001-02-12 13:58 >Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > >Weblogic (and the high priced products like Websphere) are great, if you >want to pay the price. They come with nice tools like front end gui's, >good documentation, paid support, etc. But if you look for the opinions >of developers who have used these products, and compared them to Orion, >jboss, etc., they would say the EJB capacies are no better then the >other high priced products. In order of ranking, here's how I look at >the other products. >1 Orion -- This product is ready now, but I haven't seen anyone from >this list run a Sears store on it. >2. Jboss (www.jboss.org) -- The founders are very bright, have five >hundred developers on the projects, have EJB heavies contributing to the >list, and it's a very easy to use product. Personally, even though it >is ready for production now, I would wait for it to mature a bit more. >It's like a fine wine -- drink it now, and it is OK, or allow it to age >a bit then drink it (like jboss 3.0 final). >3. Openejb (www.openejb.org) - this project has a very bright and well >known person heading it, and it is slated to be intergrated with Tomcat >and Apache. It has yet to prove itself, as it is not yet ready for >production release. But it has good future promise. >4. Jonas (www.evidian.com/jonas) - This is a good product, but it is not >as advanced as the other two open source products and I don't think they >have as many people behind them. >5. Enhydra enterprise (www.enhydra.org). If you like the enhydra >application server, this product has potential. But it is not >production ready yet and it intergrates with the jonas server. > In summary, Orion is here now but can it run Sears? Jboss is ready >but I would let it mature a bit more for production environments. >Openejb and Enhydra have great potential, but they are not ready yet and >have to prove themselves. Jonas is OK but I prefer the other open >source alternatives. > >-Original Message- >From: Anthony W. Marino >To: Orion-Interest >Sent: 2/11/01 9:06 AM >Subject: Re: Any news from Orion yet?? > >On another note, can you and/or someone, qualify/quantify what you mean >by >the following previously made statement : > >"For the most part, Orion is still very much ahead of the pack, and the >speed is stil EXCELLENT." >? > >In the Apache Tomcat list I asked the following question: > >"Can someone suggest to me what Apache and/or other OpenSource products >could >be integrated to compete with functionally and/or considered in the same > >category as BEA WebLogic? >I don't necessarily need all of what BEA has to offer at this time, >however, >I would like to know, generally, what it would take to get there without >the >big $ price tag." > >Thank You, >Anthony >
RE: RE: Any news from Orion yet??
What is the name of their mews server? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jason Boehle Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 3:07 PM To: Orion-Interest Subject: OT: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? This is getting a little off-topic, but have you ever tried posting to their newsgroups? I posted there once with a question about EJB 2.0 and got a reply in literally *minutes*. Jason Boehle [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Fink, Paul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 10:29 AM To: Orion-Interest Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? Well the best thing about WL is you don't have to worry about support... There isn't any!!! No real they have some of the worst support I have ever seen. > -Original Message- > From: Santosh Kumar [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:57 AM > To: Orion-Interest > Subject: Re: Any news from Orion yet?? > > Hi kevin, > As far as i have known WL5.1 or <, there is no concept of ear > files, > does 6.0 include > that. Doesn't the J2EE mandate (I am not sure!) the use of EAR = WAR + > JAR > + CAR(or JAR)? > To deploy the JPS1.1.1 on Orion, it is a piece of cake, while deploying on > WLS, i have to > unpack the EAR files and dis-integrate them which is contrary to the > essence > of packaging the ear files, > Even meddling with the ugly weblogic.properties frustrates one and all. Is > that true with all WLS users? > > Orion is a neat impl of J2EE, is WLS6.0? > > Regards, > Santosh. > - Original Message - > From: Kevin Duffey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Orion-Interest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, January 15, 2001 12:07 PM > Subject: RE: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > > I am not one to advocate another product, but WL6 looks nice. It is easy > to > > work with compared to WL5.1. Orion is still the best. JBoss looks very > > interesting as well. > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Neville > > > Burnell > > > Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 2:26 PM > > > To: Orion-Interest > > > Cc: Orion-Interest > > > Subject: FW: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > > > > > > > Yes - pls Orion people, publish some news & update Orion ... > > > > > > We are looking to buy at least 3 licences over the next few weeks if > > > everything is ok > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Neville Burnell > > > Business Manager Software > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Duffey, Kevin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > > Sent: Sunday, 14 January 2001 12:45 PM > > > To: Orion-Interest > > > Subject: Any news from Orion yet?? > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Has anyone heard from the team lately? I know I saw a post about a > month > > > or > > > so ago. Its been about 3 or 4 months since anything has changed on > their > > > site, if not longer and now its getting me worried. I can understand > > > them > > > trying to organize the company, but did production stop on the app > > > server? I > > > wish there was some news once every couple of weeks or so from them on > > > their > > > site letting us know what is happening. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > >
