RE: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[archayl]

technology is made as tool to ease human life. It is made to be utilised 
(bullied). When we make something, people use it. They dont care how the heck 
that thing comes to live. Somewhat it is connected to piracy, at least in my 
sense of thinking. But, what's with the testimonial at software selling sites? 
Oh...i messed up my brain

Sent from my Nokia phone.

-Original Message-
From: sweemeng ng
Sent:  23/12/2010, 2:18  PM
To: osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?


On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:05 PM, CL Chow  wrote:

> Haha, Uma, being honest or critics is no issue for me,
> What I mean by disgrace is disrespect of what technology is!
> Technologies are sacred!!!
>
> Regards,
> CL Chow
> "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
> OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar <
> u...@umarzuki.org> wrote:
>
>> i remembered during schooling days that there is a E option for "No to
>> all the above"
>>
>> that is the option that most people had chosen, i guess
>>
>> as for -> "Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?"
>> there would be bloodbath if most people are taking this too seriously
>>
>> i know a country if you insult someone, you'll get beaten to death. Most
>> of the time. It's nearby btw.
>>
>> On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 22:39 +0800, CL Chow wrote:
>> > Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only
>> > drones?
>> > Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the
>> > temptation of BREAD?
>> > Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
>> > Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon
>> > Valley?
>> > Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
>> > Do we simply code because we need the money?
>> > Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
>> > How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole
>> > of no conscience?
>> > Can't we code simply we just like to code?
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > CL Chow
>> > "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
>> > OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/
>> >
>> > Facebook Fan page
>> >
>> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577
>> >
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>> >
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>
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What sacred scares people, it is the same of religion or sacred place.
people still go, but not without fear or respect, it is not mutually
exclusive.

Technology on the other hand, sometime people fear it, use it, but rarely
respect it.

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Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[sweemeng ng]

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 2:05 PM, CL Chow  wrote:

> Haha, Uma, being honest or critics is no issue for me,
> What I mean by disgrace is disrespect of what technology is!
> Technologies are sacred!!!
>
> Regards,
> CL Chow
> "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
> OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar <
> u...@umarzuki.org> wrote:
>
>> i remembered during schooling days that there is a E option for "No to
>> all the above"
>>
>> that is the option that most people had chosen, i guess
>>
>> as for -> "Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?"
>> there would be bloodbath if most people are taking this too seriously
>>
>> i know a country if you insult someone, you'll get beaten to death. Most
>> of the time. It's nearby btw.
>>
>> On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 22:39 +0800, CL Chow wrote:
>> > Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only
>> > drones?
>> > Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the
>> > temptation of BREAD?
>> > Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
>> > Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon
>> > Valley?
>> > Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
>> > Do we simply code because we need the money?
>> > Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
>> > How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole
>> > of no conscience?
>> > Can't we code simply we just like to code?
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > CL Chow
>> > "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
>> > OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/
>> >
>> > Facebook Fan page
>> >
>> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577
>> >
>> > http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my
>> >
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> >
>> > Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group.
>> > To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> > osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> > For more options, visit this group at
>> > http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en
>>
>
>  --
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What sacred scares people, it is the same of religion or sacred place.
people still go, but not without fear or respect, it is not mutually
exclusive.

Technology on the other hand, sometime people fear it, use it, but rarely
respect it.

-- 
Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/

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Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[CL Chow]

Haha, Uma, being honest or critics is no issue for me,
What I mean by disgrace is disrespect of what technology is!
Technologies are sacred!!!

Regards,
CL Chow
"Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";




On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar <
u...@umarzuki.org> wrote:

> i remembered during schooling days that there is a E option for "No to
> all the above"
>
> that is the option that most people had chosen, i guess
>
> as for -> "Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?"
> there would be bloodbath if most people are taking this too seriously
>
> i know a country if you insult someone, you'll get beaten to death. Most
> of the time. It's nearby btw.
>
> On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 22:39 +0800, CL Chow wrote:
> > Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only
> > drones?
> > Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the
> > temptation of BREAD?
> > Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
> > Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon
> > Valley?
> > Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
> > Do we simply code because we need the money?
> > Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
> > How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole
> > of no conscience?
> > Can't we code simply we just like to code?
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > CL Chow
> > "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
> > OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/
> >
> > Facebook Fan page
> >
> > http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577
> >
> > http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my
> >
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >
> > Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group.
> > To post to this group, send email to osdcmy-list@googlegroups.com
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > osdcmy-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> > For more options, visit this group at
> > http://groups.google.com/group/osdcmy-list?hl=en
>

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Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[Umarzuki Bin Mochlis Moktar]

i remembered during schooling days that there is a E option for "No to
all the above"

that is the option that most people had chosen, i guess

as for -> "Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?"
there would be bloodbath if most people are taking this too seriously

i know a country if you insult someone, you'll get beaten to death. Most
of the time. It's nearby btw.

On Wed, 2010-12-22 at 22:39 +0800, CL Chow wrote:
> Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only
> drones?
> Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the
> temptation of BREAD?
> Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
> Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon
> Valley?
> Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
> Do we simply code because we need the money?
> Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
> How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole
> of no conscience?
> Can't we code simply we just like to code?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> CL Chow
> "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
> OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/
>  
> Facebook Fan page
>  
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=98685301577
>  
> http://www.facebook.com/OSDC.my
>  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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> Groups "OSDC.my Mailing List" group.
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Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[red1]

On 12/22/10 10:39 PM, CL Chow wrote:

Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only drones?
Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the 
temptation of BREAD?

Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon 
Valley?

Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
Do we simply code because we need the money?
Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole 
of no conscience?

Can't we code simply we just like to code?

Regards,
 Just to address this poetic rant from CL, yes, indeed, we are somewhat 
alike. Heck, all humans are alike in that way. Who loves a broing job 
pushing pen over paper over desk day in day out? Wearing neckties that 
is none of our formal descended clothing but the cold England is not my 
cup of tea either.
Humans are created as creative creatures. We learn best when we hit a 
bug. Well, i hope those reading this has hacked a bug till kingdom cums. 
The feeling is truly orgasmic. You feel as if you own the world. Well, 
at least that code you just hacked. I remembered when i got my very 
first task to open the cash drawer (no not rob the cashier) by 
programming it in Java. I was given the Cash Drawer code from the vendor 
that says "println "" in VB to the LPT1 port and the cash drawer opens. 
Heck, how do you do that from Java? As CTO it was easy for me as i 
assigned a new rookie coder just joined us to the job. But after few 
days he came back and said, "Jika boss pun tak leh buat, apatah lagi 
mandornya". "Benawe!" i told that dumb fellow and ask him to stay at the 
Futsal court with the Cashier while i return to office with the Cash 
Drawer. I struggled for 2 days making that damn cash drawer to open from 
within the Compiere Java application but no luck. Of course i googled 
but there are overloaded info that we don't know which is which to use. 
I tried until there was a somewhat indirect println command for 
something else in Java contributed by some guru. But still i have to 
encapsulate it within the 'Complete' button of the Java Client.


God knows, how many compile, recompile i did, keep pushing the button 
but the cash drawer does not open. At last it did and you can read the 
rest of the story here http://www.red1.org/compiere/POSred.zip


.

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Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[red1]

Very true what Encik Sweemeng ng said. I learnt my painful lesson of
not sticking to the codes which i started in 1982 as a COBOL programmer
which put me really high up those days but only COBOL world lah. Then i
got a PC sales business and then macam-macam broker conman kene kind of
jobs during Medan Mara days, then s sooo happyyy that i got back in
1996 as Bank Bumi HTML coder. Itu pun jadilah. Get to learn up
Photoshop too. But it was a painful return to a world quickly filling
up with C++ and replacing with Java. And in between 1997 to 2000 i was
busy with a big big bucks lifestlye as HRDF consultant to POS Malaysia
raking in RM50k per mth. So apa lagi? Lupa plak coding lah. Only
managed to master some Adobe and Macromedia stuff but pathetic lah. Not
a real Jawa man.

Then in 2003 is the real turnaround. I was told about Compiere,
downloaded it and completely taken by it - Java + Oracle + ERP +
SourceForge + + + so much skillsets to last me 10 lifetimes.

Today i just resolved some Mercurial SVN commands (ala sikit je... baru
leh buat "hg diff") and solve a bug in the OSGI code (ala sket he..
baru dapat PackOut extensions IDs matching).

But i now feel a million dollar person even though i am still stuck in
this farm home, rented and poor. I am talking about my spirit dummy. It
is different when you are in a creative mode and rally hopeless when
you are just pushing rubber.

+1 vote to Programmer Burnout Anonymous, just that i am not ashamed to
be anon anymore *sniggers*

On 12/23/10 8:51 AM, sweemeng ng wrote:

  
  
  On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:39 PM, CL Chow 
wrote:
  
Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs
only drones?
Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight
the temptation of BREAD?
Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this
field?
Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own
Silicon Valley?
Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
Do we simply code because we need the money?
Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this
eternal hole of no conscience?
Can't we code simply we just like to code?


Regards,
CL Chow
"Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/"
 


  
  
  We need more technically inclined people in the field, but
unfortunately many company don't work this way. 
  For most, the only path of career after programming is
management. That i assume if they survive the burnout. Because the job
require us to, work late, deal with unreasonable deadline and
requirement, learning opportunity is not as many, and not as
appreciated for knowledge and skills. 
  
  
  There is so much happening in IT, new tech, new skills, new
tools. Yet the above reason will kill off the passion, the mood to
actually learn all the new stuff. Or we simply will not have the time
to actually learn that. 
  
  
  This lead me believe that, it is better for people like us to
start our own stuff. Yes it would require us to work a lot harder, more
than a normal 9-6 day job, and we have learn stuff that we might not be
passionate about, such as business skills, basic accounting. But I
think this is worth it in a way that, we are working on stuff we
passionate about, or learn and apply new knowledge which we probably
never ever going to learn about in a normal day job anyway.  
  
  
  p.s Or maybe I should start a programmer burnout anonymous
malaysia.  
  
--

 





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Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[sweemeng ng]

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:39 PM, CL Chow  wrote:

> Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only drones?
> Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the
> temptation of BREAD?
> Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
> Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon
> Valley?
> Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
> Do we simply code because we need the money?
> Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
> How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole of no
> conscience?
> Can't we code simply we just like to code?
>
> Regards,
> CL Chow
> "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
> OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
>
>
>  --
> Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/
>
> Facebook Fan page
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We need more technically inclined people in the field, but unfortunately
many company don't work this way.
For most, the only path of career after programming is management. That i
assume if they survive the burnout. Because the job require us to, work
late, deal with unreasonable deadline and requirement, learning opportunity
is not as many, and not as appreciated for knowledge and skills.

There is so much happening in IT, new tech, new skills, new tools. Yet the
above reason will kill off the passion, the mood to actually learn all the
new stuff. Or we simply will not have the time to actually learn that.

This lead me believe that, it is better for people like us to start our own
stuff. Yes it would require us to work a lot harder, more than a normal 9-6
day job, and we have learn stuff that we might not be passionate about, such
as business skills, basic accounting. But I think this is worth it in a way
that, we are working on stuff we passionate about, or learn and apply new
knowledge which we probably never ever going to learn about in a normal day
job anyway.

p.s Or maybe I should start a programmer burnout anonymous malaysia.

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Re: [osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[Archayl Wizzpunk]

On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 10:39 PM, CL Chow  wrote:
> Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only drones?
> Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the
> temptation of BREAD?
> Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
> Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon
> Valley?
> Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
> Do we simply code because we need the money?
> Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
> How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole of no
> conscience?
> Can't we code simply we just like to code?
> Regards,
> CL Chow
> "Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
> OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";
>
>
> --
> Join Open Source Developers Club Malaysia http://www.osdc.my/
>
> Facebook Fan page
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Still got one here. Cheers! Think there's lot more out there. I'm
having fun looking at something
I do with my own hand. That's still counted as passion to code, am I wrong? ;)

p/s: does GMail have right border limit feature? kinda that 80 char on
a line. Hate looking at lonnng line like
this

-- 
~~~Computers are like air conditioners: they stop working properly
when you open windows.~~~

Cherish our life with all that we've got.

May peace be with us.

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[osdcmy-public] Does anyone still code because of passion?

[CL Chow]

Does anyone still do this these days? Does the market needs only drones?
Or should we succumb to be drones just because we cannot fight the
temptation of BREAD?
Do we need more people who plays golf better than code in this field?
Do we need to be guided and pampered so we can create our own Silicon
Valley?
Do we simply create a project just to get funding?
Do we simply code because we need the money?
Do we simply allow people to give us disgrace?
How many of us are aware we are falling deeper into this eternal hole of no
conscience?
Can't we code simply we just like to code?

Regards,
CL Chow
"Please do not send me Microsoft Office/Apple iWork documents. Send
OpenDocument instead! http://fsf.org/campaigns/opendocument/";

-- 
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