Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: Hi Robert, I noticed you didn't put the OpenGL logos on the site. So I'm ringing you :) (Sorry if you *did* see the mail). Haven't done it yet, had my head down on houshold DIY around the house and trying to get the ffmpeg plugin in a shape of general consumption. I will get to it though. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Alright! (Just don't try to vacuum clean the ffmpeg plugin and code things in your house :D ). Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Tue, 03 Mar 2009 09:41:25 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: Hi Robert, I noticed you didn't put the OpenGL logos on the site. So I'm ringing you :) (Sorry if you *did* see the mail). Haven't done it yet, had my head down on houshold DIY around the house and trying to get the ffmpeg plugin in a shape of general consumption. I will get to it though. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: Hi all, Anyone heard about SPECgpc? If not: http://www.specbench.org/gwpg/gpc.static/overview.html Could it be something to dive into for benchmarks using OpenGL/OSG? The SPEC benchmarks for OpenGL have been around for a very long time. As far as I know they capture the OpenGL calls for certain types of apps then replay this stream of calls+data at OpenGL to provide a pure benchmark un-encombard by CPU overhead. To include the OSG in the mix would break this convention, but perhaps they might be open to this. I think we need to come up with our own set of benchmarks, we might be able to make them compatible with the way that the SPEC ones are done, or perhaps similar to the way that other benchmarking tools generate output. We'd want to make it easy to pull down and install the tests, easy to run them, then easy to get and present the results. I haven't ever dived into package performance tests like this before, so am open to suggestions. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Well, I'm sorry, I don't have any suggestion... I was just googling around. ;) Maybe yes, SPEC could be used as a benchmark (among others). Anyone else having a suggestion? Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Mon, 02 Mar 2009 10:29:36 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: Hi all, Anyone heard about SPECgpc? If not: http://www.specbench.org/gwpg/gpc.static/overview.html Could it be something to dive into for benchmarks using OpenGL/OSG? The SPEC benchmarks for OpenGL have been around for a very long time. As far as I know they capture the OpenGL calls for certain types of apps then replay this stream of calls+data at OpenGL to provide a pure benchmark un-encombard by CPU overhead. To include the OSG in the mix would break this convention, but perhaps they might be open to this. I think we need to come up with our own set of benchmarks, we might be able to make them compatible with the way that the SPEC ones are done, or perhaps similar to the way that other benchmarking tools generate output. We'd want to make it easy to pull down and install the tests, easy to run them, then easy to get and present the results. I haven't ever dived into package performance tests like this before, so am open to suggestions. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Hi Robert, hi all, I don't know if ideas (slogans) I got before going to sleep are to be good ones, but here we go! :) For OpenGL, regarding to portability: - Having only one client is risky for your company. Supporting only one platform is also risky. Use cross-platform open APIs based on OpenGL. Note to JS: I didn't say standard :) But if it sounds a better slogan, just say Use OpenGL, *the* corss-platform open standard. - Open your market to new customers. Build your apps with OpenGL. - Don't put all your eggs in one basket! Be cross-platform, be open, use OpenGL. - Tired to be tied to Windows? Switch to OpenGL. - OpenGL: Same performances, same features, but portable across platforms. Please note that these could also work for OSG... And for OSG: - Open Scene Graph: A high abstraction level, performance gains using optimizers and culling, ease of use, cool features, open source... What are you waiting for? - Dramatically cut your development costs by building your 3D app on a powerful open source and cross-platform toolkit. Open Scene Graph. - Why trying to build a powerful cross-platform 3D toolkit upon OpenGL when an open source and rock solid one exists? - Don't even try to be as good as a 375k lines toolkit, with 350 authors and 2000 registered users. Just use Open Scene Graph, it's free. - Don't even try to create your 3D app directly from a 3D API; it will cost years until you reach the Open Scene Graph features. - Open Scene Graph is simply what you need to avoid re-inventing the wheel. - No need for proprietary solutions that just can't be adapted to your needs... simply switch to Open Scene Graph. - For vis-sim, high performance apps, games, scientific visualization and modelling: Open Scene Graph. Certainly one of the best scene graph ever. - Don't want to meddle too low in OpenGL but want to keep manoeuvrability and scalability? Open Scene Graph is *your* solution. (Thanks kuba for his(her?) post on ohloh.net!) I guess some could be split/merged/rearanged. Thoughts? Things to change (Sorry, that's not easy to find good ads when not in your mothertongue language!)? Ideas? ...Anyone mastering a vector graphics editor to make cool ads? :) Sukender, going to bed PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:51:56 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: Hi Sukender, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: I created Community/Advocacy (Robert: since it's about OpenGL *AND* OSG, I did not put OpenGL in the page name). See http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy , and start discussing! Also feel free to complete 2 other pages (and feel free to add links to some articles if revelant): http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Myths http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Demos Please note these are only placeholders for now... :) Thanks for putting up the pages, it looks like a good start of the process. I begin, by giving some more ideas: - May we try to find short sentences that sounds like advertising (about OpenGL or OSG) we could put as banners or logos on our websites/blogs? Any idea? Too early in the morning for me to be creative I'm afraid. I guess we could add short phases to our email signatures, as well as to blogs. The OSG website doesn't yet sport OpenGL logos we we really should get on with as a starter. Perhaps OpenGL ES and OpenGL CL, Collada be worth talking about in the mix and include logos would also be worth doing. - May we insist on the fact that OpenGL is used on consoles (except Xbox)? Existing consoles are already set in stone, the next gen ones might still be open to influence, none of which actually use a standard version of OpenGL or OpenGL ES. One can be sure that MS's next console will be Direct3D and not contain OpenGL, but I guess it wouldn't do any harm to lobby for it, even if you knew it was not going to be successful, as it points to the need for a single graphics API to be present across all consoles. Costs and time to market in recession are more critical than ever, being able to write software once and recompile everywhere is one of the most compelling aspect to standards like OpenGL. Thougts? Ideas? We build a magic wand capable of ushering peace to all that inhabit the earth and ensuring that open standards become the foundation of all computing ;-) Trawling the web/community for good examples of advocacy might be a place to start for getting inspiration. The OpenGL website might also be place to look for articles/quotes. Distilling what value OpenGL and separately OSG/OpenGL provides to the graphics market to a couple of key phrases might be useful. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Hi Robert, I noticed you didn't put the OpenGL logos on the site. So I'm ringing you :) (Sorry if you *did* see the mail). Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:24:16 +0100, Sukender suky0...@free.fr a écrit: Hi Robert, hi all, I downloaded the officials OpenGL logos and registered (as requested on the site) using the email address I use for posting here, indicating it was for openscenegraph.org. I uploaded the standard logo+small version on the FTP. Robert, could you add the big one on the front page (and/or anywhere suitable)? Thanks. I don't have much ideas at the moment too... I'll post again later about short/key phrases and the investigation of the OpenGL site. About consoles, should we try to periodically contact manufacturers? Should we do it publicly (= I mean with a copy of the letters on the wiki or blog)? To all: Come on! Throw your ideas in this thread! PS: I like the idea of the magic wand! :) Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:51:56 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: Hi Sukender, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: I created Community/Advocacy (Robert: since it's about OpenGL *AND* OSG, I did not put OpenGL in the page name). See http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy , and start discussing! Also feel free to complete 2 other pages (and feel free to add links to some articles if revelant): http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Myths http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Demos Please note these are only placeholders for now... :) Thanks for putting up the pages, it looks like a good start of the process. I begin, by giving some more ideas: - May we try to find short sentences that sounds like advertising (about OpenGL or OSG) we could put as banners or logos on our websites/blogs? Any idea? Too early in the morning for me to be creative I'm afraid. I guess we could add short phases to our email signatures, as well as to blogs. The OSG website doesn't yet sport OpenGL logos we we really should get on with as a starter. Perhaps OpenGL ES and OpenGL CL, Collada be worth talking about in the mix and include logos would also be worth doing. - May we insist on the fact that OpenGL is used on consoles (except Xbox)? Existing consoles are already set in stone, the next gen ones might still be open to influence, none of which actually use a standard version of OpenGL or OpenGL ES. One can be sure that MS's next console will be Direct3D and not contain OpenGL, but I guess it wouldn't do any harm to lobby for it, even if you knew it was not going to be successful, as it points to the need for a single graphics API to be present across all consoles. Costs and time to market in recession are more critical than ever, being able to write software once and recompile everywhere is one of the most compelling aspect to standards like OpenGL. Thougts? Ideas? We build a magic wand capable of ushering peace to all that inhabit the earth and ensuring that open standards become the foundation of all computing ;-) Trawling the web/community for good examples of advocacy might be a place to start for getting inspiration. The OpenGL website might also be place to look for articles/quotes. Distilling what value OpenGL and separately OSG/OpenGL provides to the graphics market to a couple of key phrases might be useful. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Hi all, Anyone heard about SPECgpc? If not: http://www.specbench.org/gwpg/gpc.static/overview.html Could it be something to dive into for benchmarks using OpenGL/OSG? Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:24:16 +0100, Sukender suky0...@free.fr a écrit: Hi Robert, hi all, I downloaded the officials OpenGL logos and registered (as requested on the site) using the email address I use for posting here, indicating it was for openscenegraph.org. I uploaded the standard logo+small version on the FTP. Robert, could you add the big one on the front page (and/or anywhere suitable)? Thanks. I don't have much ideas at the moment too... I'll post again later about short/key phrases and the investigation of the OpenGL site. About consoles, should we try to periodically contact manufacturers? Should we do it publicly (= I mean with a copy of the letters on the wiki or blog)? To all: Come on! Throw your ideas in this thread! PS: I like the idea of the magic wand! :) Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:51:56 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: Hi Sukender, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: I created Community/Advocacy (Robert: since it's about OpenGL *AND* OSG, I did not put OpenGL in the page name). See http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy , and start discussing! Also feel free to complete 2 other pages (and feel free to add links to some articles if revelant): http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Myths http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Demos Please note these are only placeholders for now... :) Thanks for putting up the pages, it looks like a good start of the process. I begin, by giving some more ideas: - May we try to find short sentences that sounds like advertising (about OpenGL or OSG) we could put as banners or logos on our websites/blogs? Any idea? Too early in the morning for me to be creative I'm afraid. I guess we could add short phases to our email signatures, as well as to blogs. The OSG website doesn't yet sport OpenGL logos we we really should get on with as a starter. Perhaps OpenGL ES and OpenGL CL, Collada be worth talking about in the mix and include logos would also be worth doing. - May we insist on the fact that OpenGL is used on consoles (except Xbox)? Existing consoles are already set in stone, the next gen ones might still be open to influence, none of which actually use a standard version of OpenGL or OpenGL ES. One can be sure that MS's next console will be Direct3D and not contain OpenGL, but I guess it wouldn't do any harm to lobby for it, even if you knew it was not going to be successful, as it points to the need for a single graphics API to be present across all consoles. Costs and time to market in recession are more critical than ever, being able to write software once and recompile everywhere is one of the most compelling aspect to standards like OpenGL. Thougts? Ideas? We build a magic wand capable of ushering peace to all that inhabit the earth and ensuring that open standards become the foundation of all computing ;-) Trawling the web/community for good examples of advocacy might be a place to start for getting inspiration. The OpenGL website might also be place to look for articles/quotes. Distilling what value OpenGL and separately OSG/OpenGL provides to the graphics market to a couple of key phrases might be useful. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Hi Sukender, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: I created Community/Advocacy (Robert: since it's about OpenGL *AND* OSG, I did not put OpenGL in the page name). See http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy , and start discussing! Also feel free to complete 2 other pages (and feel free to add links to some articles if revelant): http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Myths http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Demos Please note these are only placeholders for now... :) Thanks for putting up the pages, it looks like a good start of the process. I begin, by giving some more ideas: - May we try to find short sentences that sounds like advertising (about OpenGL or OSG) we could put as banners or logos on our websites/blogs? Any idea? Too early in the morning for me to be creative I'm afraid. I guess we could add short phases to our email signatures, as well as to blogs. The OSG website doesn't yet sport OpenGL logos we we really should get on with as a starter. Perhaps OpenGL ES and OpenGL CL, Collada be worth talking about in the mix and include logos would also be worth doing. - May we insist on the fact that OpenGL is used on consoles (except Xbox)? Existing consoles are already set in stone, the next gen ones might still be open to influence, none of which actually use a standard version of OpenGL or OpenGL ES. One can be sure that MS's next console will be Direct3D and not contain OpenGL, but I guess it wouldn't do any harm to lobby for it, even if you knew it was not going to be successful, as it points to the need for a single graphics API to be present across all consoles. Costs and time to market in recession are more critical than ever, being able to write software once and recompile everywhere is one of the most compelling aspect to standards like OpenGL. Thougts? Ideas? We build a magic wand capable of ushering peace to all that inhabit the earth and ensuring that open standards become the foundation of all computing ;-) Trawling the web/community for good examples of advocacy might be a place to start for getting inspiration. The OpenGL website might also be place to look for articles/quotes. Distilling what value OpenGL and separately OSG/OpenGL provides to the graphics market to a couple of key phrases might be useful. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Hi Robert, hi all, I downloaded the officials OpenGL logos and registered (as requested on the site) using the email address I use for posting here, indicating it was for openscenegraph.org. I uploaded the standard logo+small version on the FTP. Robert, could you add the big one on the front page (and/or anywhere suitable)? Thanks. I don't have much ideas at the moment too... I'll post again later about short/key phrases and the investigation of the OpenGL site. About consoles, should we try to periodically contact manufacturers? Should we do it publicly (= I mean with a copy of the letters on the wiki or blog)? To all: Come on! Throw your ideas in this thread! PS: I like the idea of the magic wand! :) Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:51:56 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: Hi Sukender, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: I created Community/Advocacy (Robert: since it's about OpenGL *AND* OSG, I did not put OpenGL in the page name). See http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy , and start discussing! Also feel free to complete 2 other pages (and feel free to add links to some articles if revelant): http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Myths http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Demos Please note these are only placeholders for now... :) Thanks for putting up the pages, it looks like a good start of the process. I begin, by giving some more ideas: - May we try to find short sentences that sounds like advertising (about OpenGL or OSG) we could put as banners or logos on our websites/blogs? Any idea? Too early in the morning for me to be creative I'm afraid. I guess we could add short phases to our email signatures, as well as to blogs. The OSG website doesn't yet sport OpenGL logos we we really should get on with as a starter. Perhaps OpenGL ES and OpenGL CL, Collada be worth talking about in the mix and include logos would also be worth doing. - May we insist on the fact that OpenGL is used on consoles (except Xbox)? Existing consoles are already set in stone, the next gen ones might still be open to influence, none of which actually use a standard version of OpenGL or OpenGL ES. One can be sure that MS's next console will be Direct3D and not contain OpenGL, but I guess it wouldn't do any harm to lobby for it, even if you knew it was not going to be successful, as it points to the need for a single graphics API to be present across all consoles. Costs and time to market in recession are more critical than ever, being able to write software once and recompile everywhere is one of the most compelling aspect to standards like OpenGL. Thougts? Ideas? We build a magic wand capable of ushering peace to all that inhabit the earth and ensuring that open standards become the foundation of all computing ;-) Trawling the web/community for good examples of advocacy might be a place to start for getting inspiration. The OpenGL website might also be place to look for articles/quotes. Distilling what value OpenGL and separately OSG/OpenGL provides to the graphics market to a couple of key phrases might be useful. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
[osg-users] OpenGL and OSG advocacy
Hi Robert, hi all, [Thread was [osg-users] OFT: Interesting commentary of the future of OpenGL] I created Community/Advocacy (Robert: since it's about OpenGL *AND* OSG, I did not put OpenGL in the page name). See http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy , and start discussing! Also feel free to complete 2 other pages (and feel free to add links to some articles if revelant): http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Myths http://www.openscenegraph.org/projects/osg/wiki/Community/Advocacy/Demos Please note these are only placeholders for now... :) *** So... I suggest we do a mailed brainstorm about how to promote OpenGL and OSG... And then fill the corresponding section. I begin, by giving some more ideas: - May we try to find short sentences that sounds like advertising (about OpenGL or OSG) we could put as banners or logos on our websites/blogs? Any idea? - May we insist on the fact that OpenGL is used on consoles (except Xbox)? Thougts? Ideas? PS: OpenGL-D3D wrapper has to be discussed in another thread. Sukender PVLE - Lightweight cross-platform game engine - http://pvle.sourceforge.net/ Le Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:03:36 +0100, Robert Osfield robert.osfi...@gmail.com a écrit: Hi Sukender, On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:34 PM, Sukender suky0...@free.fr wrote: I suggest we create a Communication/advertising section on the wiki. Here are some ideas to fill in the pages of this section: - Articles on OpenGL and OSG (so that we link our personnal websites/blogs to them). Official OSG blog could have links and/or copies to/of them. - Campains, logo and various advertising materials (ditto) - Copy of letters we would have sent to to vendors + list of vendors to contact. - Presentations - etc. Good idea. The Community section of the wiki would be a natural home for this, perhaps Community/OpenGLAdvocacy would be appropriate. And we may discuss as usual on the mailing list (or on a osg-communication specific list?). Keep it all on osg-users, the ancillary lists always tend to go quiet after a while. 3) Work with hardware vendors on a suite of unit tests that can test the range of OpenGL features. 4) Come up with compelling benchmarking suite that shows off OSG/OpenGL. I have no strong ideas about this. Could we start by using current examples, and creating benchmark-examples? The examples are a start. CTest might be another axis to it. Perhaps a testing harness specifically for graphics rendering would be appropriate. A separate thread is the place to disucss this further. 5) Coordinating between us on best practices to sell OpenGL to skeptical clients. This may go with 1+2 on the advertising section. Indeed, it really is under a similar topic. 6) Investigate the possibility of using OpenGL subset - Direct3D layer. Yes. However, I guess such a layer would have much delay (between new features in APIs, and the reflection of such features in the layer)... You'd have to choose the mapping as well as there is no single Direct3D that you could target. So something like an OpenGL 2.x subset - Direct 3D 9.x and a OpenGL 2.x subset - Direct3D 10.x. The existence of shaders should make the task a bit easier as it reduces the API to smaller subset. One might need to do some hand remapping of GLSL shaders that your app uses to HLSL, but this could be done on the mapping layer. Should we start a thread about 1+2+5? May we use a tag (that Art would add to the forum), such as [Com] or [Adv]? Any idea about precise subjects? Any more ideas about things to put on the wiki? Definitely a good time to start a thread on 1,2+5 topics. Whether we need a separate topic branch I can't say, adding [Adv] or [Com] to a subject line might be easier missed. Perhaps others can chip in with their own thoughts. Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
