Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7

[Barry Norton]

Marek, agreed, it can seem a bit arbitrary what is in the Sesame 
Workbench extension for OWLIM-type repositories and what is not, but to 
some degree this is the nature of the maintenance of the Sesame 
Workbench as a community project separate from the release cycle of OWLIM.


Barry


On 19/02/13 12:29, Marek S(urek wrote:
I didn't know about the option to create repository like that but I 
will certainly try it. Thank you for mentioning that.


From my perspective it could have sense because it is easier to 
work(run queries) with some UI app rather than with openrdf-console. 
My problem was that I had to create repository with custom .ttl in e.g 
openrdf-console and then switch to workbench. I could not use Sesame's 
workbench "create repository" because there is missing owlim specific 
thing - adding custom ruleset(+ I had to still change default values 
in the form).


At the same time, Sesame's workbench has plenty of Owlim specific 
attributes and only custom ruleset is missing. Therefore my proposal 
to implement this last feature. (I agree editing rules is not priority 
and I take back this feature).


It is just my proposal.If it has some reasons not to do so I accept them.

Best regards,
Marek

PS: Maybe for me as OWLIM user, switching to new OWLIM workbench 
starts to make sense.




*From:* Barry Norton 
*To:* sesame-gene...@lists.sourceforge.net
*Sent:* Tuesday, 19 February 2013, 12:04
*Subject:* Re: [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7


Regarding Sesame feature (request)s:

1. You know that you don't need the workbench to create a repository
from a .ttl file? You can http PUT this to a new graph in the SYSTEM
repository as follows:

curl -H "Content-Type:text/turtle"
http://localhost:8080/openrdf-sesame/repositories/SYSTEM/rdf-graphs/service?graph=http://example.com/your-graph

The ID feature of a (valid) SAIL description will then be used to create
a new resource, as expected e.g.:

http://localhost:8080/openrdf-sesame/repositories/new-id

The reason I mention this is that if you're working with 'raw' Turtle,
you probably don't need a UI anyway and would be equally happy just to
script this?


3. (ignoring 2 and 3 (a), which are OWLIM specific) - do I take your
feature request to be that it shouldn't be necessary to initialise a
repository in order to delete it? If so, I'd agree (I'm sure there are
technical reasons why this is done and the Sesame developers will
probably explain why...)

Barry




On 19/02/13 10:55, Marek Surek wrote:
> Hi all,
> I would like to propose a few new features in upcoming 2.7 release. As I
> don't know whether 2.7 is not feature freeze for now, I post the 
features

> here.
> 1. Create repository in workbench directly from .ttl file
> 2. Create/add/edit custom ruleset in workbench (the ability to add 
custom

> .pie file would be great)
> 3. Change the behavior for deletition of repository. The problem is that
> when I slightly change .pie or remove .pie or .ttl file, I can't delete
> existing repository. The developers from Ontotext told me it is because
> Sesame needs to initialize repository first, but the initialization 
cannot

> be done. It is possible to change this behaviour in the way :
> a) the whole ttl and pie information will be stored in repository so 
there
> will be no need to have exactly the same files for the whole 
repository life

> and repository can be deleted anytime.
> b) the initalization of repository is not required when delete 
repository

> action.
>
>
> Is it possible to consider at least few of this features?
>
> Best regards,
> Marek
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: 
http://sesame-general.435816.n3.nabble.com/Few-features-request-for-upcoming-2-7-tp4025791.html

> Sent from the sesame-general mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> 
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Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7

[Marek Šurek]

As it is so, I will create separate pie file and deploy them when they will be 
ready. 

Thank you for your explanation.

Marek




 From: Barry Norton 
To: Marek Šurek  
Cc: "owlim-discussion@ontotext.com"  
Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2013, 13:15
Subject: Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7
 

On 19/02/13 11:59, Marek Šurek wrote:

2. I was not aware that .pie is specific only to OWLIM, therefore my apology. 
What is then the standard format for rulewriting? What I mean is that in what 
format are predefined rulesets in Sesame Workbench stores?
>Main idea was to add custom ruleset in workbench, I agree that
editing would not make much sense.
>
No worries. There is no standard for Sesame, it doesn't have a
general rule engine in any language to replace the rules used - this
is one of the advantages of OWLIM.


3. I understand that I can't change ruleset just like that... ,my point is that 
our application is still in developement and therefore I change ruleset from 
time to time (but I don't expect it is immediatedly applied to repository). I 
thought OWLIM compiles rules during creating new repository. Therefore I didn't 
expect changes in .pie aris e immediatedly used.
>Our common scenario is that :
>a. There is working repository with working ruleset.
>b. I would like to add some rules (but without recomputing them
and without having additional rules file)
>c. If set of new rules will be final, I can drop the working
repository and recreate it with new rules. 
>
So new rules in the file at which the repository points are applied,
after these are compiled (each start up), as new data is added. Note
that this is different from re-inferring over the existing data
(which is also possible). In order words the ruleset is not fixed
for the lifetime of the repository.


It happened to me few times that I changed .pie file and then Tomcat restart 
came and I couldn't delete repository nor to create the same one with the new 
rules. Therefore I had to revert .pie file, delete repository and then I can 
again change .pie and create new repository. 
>
>If it has some technical explanation I would accept it and try to avoid the 
>same situations. It just happened to me few times and therefore I asked 
>whether it is possible to change it.
>
>
>
For the reason above (that the rules executed on new data is added
are changed according to the file contents) you should not edit the
file (rather a copy) unless you're sure those are the rules you want
executed.

Barry




>
> From: Barry Norton 
>To: owlim-discussion@ontotext.com 
>Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2013, 12:24
>Subject: Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7
> 
>
>2. Since PIE is an OWLIM-specific rule format, it would not
make sense to add this to the Sesame Workbench. The OWLIM
Workbench already has an option to upload a custom ruleset.
>
>While editing is something that could be considered for the
OWLIM Workbench, it's probably a feature that's used by only
a small proportion of users, for a very small proportion of
their time, that other features would be likely to be
prioritised.
>
>3. a) it's worth considering that rules are internalised,
but this would make it more difficult to change the ruleset
used in an existing repository (via SPARQL). Would it not
just be easier, when you're using a custom ruleset, to
create a separate ruleset file for each repository and a
separate one to make edits? In the case of deletion I do
agree (on the Sesame list) that having to initialise the
repository before deleting it is a pain.
>
>Barry
>
>
>On 19/02/13 10:58, Barry Norton wrote:
>> 
>> Marek, a number of these are OWLIM requests and I'll
answer those separately on the owlim-discussion list...
>> 
>> Barry
>> 
>> 
>> On 19/02/13 10:55, Marek Surek wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I would like to propose a few new features in
upcoming 2.7 release. As I
>>> don't know whether 2.7 is not feature freeze for
now, I post the features
>>> here.
>>> 1. Create repository in workbench directly from
.ttl file
>>> 2. Create/add/edit custom ruleset in workbench (the
ability to add custom
>>> .pie file would be great)
>>> 3. Change the behavior for deletition of
repository. The problem is that
>>> when I slightly change .pie or remove .pie or .ttl
file, I can't delete
>>> e

Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7

[Barry Norton]

On 19/02/13 11:59, Marek Šurek wrote:
2. I was not aware that .pie is specific only to OWLIM, therefore my 
apology. What is then the standard format for rulewriting? What I mean 
is that in what format are predefined rulesets in Sesame Workbench stores?
Main idea was to add custom ruleset in workbench, I agree that editing 
would not make much sense.


No worries. There is no standard for Sesame, it doesn't have a general 
rule engine in any language to replace the rules used - this is one of 
the advantages of OWLIM.


3. I understand that I can't change ruleset just like that... ,my 
point is that our application is still in developement and therefore I 
change ruleset from time to time (but I don't expect it is 
immediatedly applied to repository). I thought OWLIM compiles rules 
during creating new repository. Therefore I didn't expect changes in 
.pie aris e immediatedly used.

Our common scenario is that :
a. There is working repository with working ruleset.
b. I would like to add some rules (but without recomputing them and 
without having additional rules file)
c. If set of new rules will be final, I can drop the working 
repository and recreate it with new rules.


So new rules in the file at which the repository points are applied, 
after these are compiled (each start up), as new data is added. Note 
that this is different from re-inferring over the existing data (which 
is also possible). In order words the ruleset is not fixed for the 
lifetime of the repository.


It happened to me few times that I changed .pie file and then Tomcat 
restart came and I couldn't delete repository nor to create the same 
one with the new rules. Therefore I had to revert .pie file, delete 
repository and then I can again change .pie and create new repository.
If it has some technical explanation I would accept it and try to 
avoid the same situations. It just happened to me few times and 
therefore I asked whether it is possible to change it.




For the reason above (that the rules executed on new data is added are 
changed according to the file contents) you should not edit the file 
(rather a copy) unless you're sure those are the rules you want executed.


Barry




*From:* Barry Norton 
*To:* owlim-discussion@ontotext.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, 19 February 2013, 12:24
*Subject:* Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for 
upcoming 2.7



2. Since PIE is an OWLIM-specific rule format, it would not make sense 
to add this to the Sesame Workbench. The OWLIM Workbench already has 
an option to upload a custom ruleset.


While editing is something that could be considered for the OWLIM 
Workbench, it's probably a feature that's used by only a small 
proportion of users, for a very small proportion of their time, that 
other features would be likely to be prioritised.


3. a) it's worth considering that rules are internalised, but this 
would make it more difficult to change the ruleset used in an existing 
repository (via SPARQL). Would it not just be easier, when you're 
using a custom ruleset, to create a separate ruleset file for each 
repository and a separate one to make edits? In the case of deletion I 
do agree (on the Sesame list) that having to initialise the repository 
before deleting it is a pain.


Barry


On 19/02/13 10:58, Barry Norton wrote:
>
> Marek, a number of these are OWLIM requests and I'll answer those 
separately on the owlim-discussion list...

>
> Barry
>
>
> On 19/02/13 10:55, Marek Surek wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I would like to propose a few new features in upcoming 2.7 release. 
As I
>> don't know whether 2.7 is not feature freeze for now, I post the 
features

>> here.
>> 1. Create repository in workbench directly from .ttl file
>> 2. Create/add/edit custom ruleset in workbench (the ability to add 
custom

>> .pie file would be great)
>> 3. Change the behavior for deletition of repository. The problem is 
that

>> when I slightly change .pie or remove .pie or .ttl file, I can't delete
>> existing repository. The developers from Ontotext told me it is because
>> Sesame needs to initialize repository first, but the initialization 
cannot

>> be done. It is possible to change this behaviour in the way :
>> a) the whole ttl and pie information will be stored in repository 
so there
>> will be no need to have exactly the same files for the whole 
repository life

>> and repository can be deleted anytime.
>> b) the initalization of repository is not required when delete 
repository

>> action.
>>
>>
>> Is it possible to consider at least few of this features?
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Marek
>>
>>
>>
>> -- View this message in context: 
http://sesame-general.435816

Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7

[Marek Šurek]

2. I was not aware that .pie is specific only to OWLIM, therefore my apology. 
What is then the standard format for rulewriting? What I mean is that in what 
format are predefined rulesets in Sesame Workbench stores?
Main idea was to add custom ruleset in workbench, I agree that editing would 
not make much sense.

3. I understand that I can't change ruleset just like that... ,my point is that 
our application is still in developement and therefore I change ruleset from 
time to time (but I don't expect it is immediatedly applied to repository). I 
thought OWLIM compiles rules during creating new repository. Therefore I didn't 
expect changes in .pie are immediatedly used.
Our common scenario is that :
a. There is working repository with working ruleset.
b. I would like to add some rules (but without recomputing them and without 
having additional rules file)
c. If set of new rules will be final, I can drop the working repository and 
recreate it with new rules. 

It happened to me few times that I changed .pie file and then Tomcat restart 
came and I couldn't delete repository nor to create the same one with the new 
rules. Therefore I had to revert .pie file, delete repository and then I can 
again change .pie and create new repository. 

If it has some technical explanation I would accept it and try to avoid the 
same situations. It just happened to me few times and therefore I asked whether 
it is possible to change it.


Best regards,

Marek



 From: Barry Norton 
To: owlim-discussion@ontotext.com 
Sent: Tuesday, 19 February 2013, 12:24
Subject: Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7
 

2. Since PIE is an OWLIM-specific rule format, it would not make sense to add 
this to the Sesame Workbench. The OWLIM Workbench already has an option to 
upload a custom ruleset.

While editing is something that could be considered for the OWLIM Workbench, 
it's probably a feature that's used by only a small proportion of users, for a 
very small proportion of their time, that other features would be likely to be 
prioritised.

3. a) it's worth considering that rules are internalised, but this would make 
it more difficult to change the ruleset used in an existing repository (via 
SPARQL). Would it not just be easier, when you're using a custom ruleset, to 
create a separate ruleset file for each repository and a separate one to make 
edits? In the case of deletion I do agree (on the Sesame list) that having to 
initialise the repository before deleting it is a pain.

Barry


On 19/02/13 10:58, Barry Norton wrote:
> 
> Marek, a number of these are OWLIM requests and I'll answer those separately 
> on the owlim-discussion list...
> 
> Barry
> 
> 
> On 19/02/13 10:55, Marek Surek wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I would like to propose a few new features in upcoming 2.7 release. As I
>> don't know whether 2.7 is not feature freeze for now, I post the features
>> here.
>> 1. Create repository in workbench directly from .ttl file
>> 2. Create/add/edit custom ruleset in workbench (the ability to add custom
>> .pie file would be great)
>> 3. Change the behavior for deletition of repository. The problem is that
>> when I slightly change .pie or remove .pie or .ttl file, I can't delete
>> existing repository. The developers from Ontotext told me it is because
>> Sesame needs to initialize repository first, but the initialization cannot
>> be done. It is possible to change this behaviour in the way :
>> a) the whole ttl and pie information will be stored in repository so there
>> will be no need to have exactly the same files for the whole repository life
>> and repository can be deleted anytime.
>> b) the initalization of repository is not required when delete repository
>> action.
>> 
>> 
>> Is it possible to consider at least few of this features?
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> Marek
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- View this message in context: 
>> http://sesame-general.435816.n3.nabble.com/Few-features-request-for-upcoming-2-7-tp4025791.html
>> Sent from the sesame-general mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> 
>> --
>>  
>> Everyone hates slow websites. So do we.
>> Make your web apps faster with AppDynamics
>> Download AppDynamics Lite for free today:
>> http://p.sf.net/sfu/appdyn_d2d_feb
>> ___
>> Sesame-general mailing list
>> sesame-gene...@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/sesame-general
> 
> ___
> Owlim-discussion mailing list
> Owlim-discussion@ontotext.com
&g

Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7

[Barry Norton]

2. Since PIE is an OWLIM-specific rule format, it would not make sense 
to add this to the Sesame Workbench. The OWLIM Workbench already has an 
option to upload a custom ruleset.


While editing is something that could be considered for the OWLIM 
Workbench, it's probably a feature that's used by only a small 
proportion of users, for a very small proportion of their time, that 
other features would be likely to be prioritised.


3. a) it's worth considering that rules are internalised, but this would 
make it more difficult to change the ruleset used in an existing 
repository (via SPARQL). Would it not just be easier, when you're using 
a custom ruleset, to create a separate ruleset file for each repository 
and a separate one to make edits? In the case of deletion I do agree (on 
the Sesame list) that having to initialise the repository before 
deleting it is a pain.


Barry


On 19/02/13 10:58, Barry Norton wrote:


Marek, a number of these are OWLIM requests and I'll answer those 
separately on the owlim-discussion list...


Barry


On 19/02/13 10:55, Marek Surek wrote:

Hi all,
I would like to propose a few new features in upcoming 2.7 release. As I
don't know whether 2.7 is not feature freeze for now, I post the 
features

here.
1. Create repository in workbench directly from .ttl file
2. Create/add/edit custom ruleset in workbench (the ability to add 
custom

.pie file would be great)
3. Change the behavior for deletition of repository. The problem is that
when I slightly change .pie or remove .pie or .ttl file, I can't delete
existing repository. The developers from Ontotext told me it is because
Sesame needs to initialize repository first, but the initialization 
cannot

be done. It is possible to change this behaviour in the way :
a) the whole ttl and pie information will be stored in repository so 
there
will be no need to have exactly the same files for the whole 
repository life

and repository can be deleted anytime.
b) the initalization of repository is not required when delete 
repository

action.


Is it possible to consider at least few of this features?

Best regards,
Marek



--
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Re: [Owlim-discussion] [Sesame] Few features request for upcoming 2.7

[Barry Norton]

Marek, a number of these are OWLIM requests and I'll answer those 
separately on the owlim-discussion list...


Barry


On 19/02/13 10:55, Marek Surek wrote:

Hi all,
I would like to propose a few new features in upcoming 2.7 release. As I
don't know whether 2.7 is not feature freeze for now, I post the features
here.
1. Create repository in workbench directly from .ttl file
2. Create/add/edit custom ruleset in workbench (the ability to add custom
.pie file would be great)
3. Change the behavior for deletition of repository. The problem is that
when I slightly change .pie or remove .pie or .ttl file, I can't delete
existing repository. The developers from Ontotext told me it is because
Sesame needs to initialize repository first, but the initialization cannot
be done. It is possible to change this behaviour in the way :
a) the whole ttl and pie information will be stored in repository so there
will be no need to have exactly the same files for the whole repository life
and repository can be deleted anytime.
b) the initalization of repository is not required when delete repository
action.


Is it possible to consider at least few of this features?

Best regards,
Marek



--
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http://sesame-general.435816.n3.nabble.com/Few-features-request-for-upcoming-2-7-tp4025791.html
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--
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