RE: [OT] HealthSMART problems
I think it would be pretty unbelievable if they didn’t have a several pilot phases (with increasing numbers of employees involved). Even running both systems in parallel has issues – people getting paid twice, people not getting paid at all etc., can still occur… Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 2:40 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems On 23 June 2010 16:14, Ken Schaefer mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote: And sometimes a, b and c end up being so bad you have a huge IT debacle. The problems in health payroll were pretty much inexcusable irrespective of project complexity. The current issue of not being able to pay anyone could have been avoided if they had a rollout plan included parallel operation of both systems. Maybe do 1% of pays in the new system first, then start cutting over more and more employees as the system is validated? Re: the topic of poor contracts, I don't know if anyone noticed this in the press at the time, but you can only laugh (or cry): http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/we-delivered-quality-payroll-solution-to-qld-health-ibm/story-e6frgakx-1225857268396 IBM declined to explain the exact nature of the problems but a spokesman said: "IBM is confident in the quality of the solution delivered to the Queensland government." No seriously. That was April, and then today you see: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/no-end-to-queensland-payroll-debacle/story-e6frgakx-1225883123593 The paymasters can't even pay themselves. Awesome. David. -- David Connors (da...@codify.com<mailto:da...@codify.com>) Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com<http://www.codify.com> Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems
On 23 June 2010 16:14, Ken Schaefer wrote: > And sometimes a, b and c end up being so bad you have a huge IT debacle. > The problems in health payroll were pretty much inexcusable irrespective of project complexity. The current issue of not being able to pay anyone could have been avoided if they had a rollout plan included parallel operation of both systems. Maybe do 1% of pays in the new system first, then start cutting over more and more employees as the system is validated? Re: the topic of poor contracts, I don't know if anyone noticed this in the press at the time, but you can only laugh (or cry): http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/we-delivered-quality-payroll-solution-to-qld-health-ibm/story-e6frgakx-1225857268396 IBM declined to explain the exact nature of the problems but a spokesman said: "IBM is confident in the quality of the solution delivered to the Queensland government." No seriously. That was April, and then today you see: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/no-end-to-queensland-payroll-debacle/story-e6frgakx-1225883123593 The paymasters can't even pay themselves. Awesome. David. -- David Connors (da...@codify.com) Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
RE: [OT] HealthSMART problems
Poor contracts are definitely a problem. The rest (IMHO) is a combination of science and art, and when you have enormous projects then: a) You simply can’t hire 500 “a-team” people b) There is way more complexity and requirements than people imagine in the beginning c) Everything takes a long time, due to lag times in communications and co-ordination overhead when you have hundreds of people working on a project And sometimes a, b and c end up being so bad you have a huge IT debacle. I’m working on an 80k user platform consolidation/outsourcing deal (google SOEasy IDA) and it’s immensely complex. Cheers Ken From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Connors Sent: Wednesday, 23 June 2010 7:38 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems On 23 June 2010 09:00, Greg Keogh mailto:g...@mira.net>> wrote: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/computers-could-cause-deaths-warn-doctors-20100621-ys9i.html http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/hospital-shunned-over-computer-revelations-20100623-yw22.html In The Age newspaper yesterday with a follow-up today. Does anyone here know what sort of a system HealthSMART is or what sort of platforms, tools and technologies were involved? Was anyone here involved? (you can tell us, we’re like doctors in here). No idea on the tools & tech front, but I think the recent public spending IT debacles (Queensland is a world leader in this regard) are more down to a combination of crap contracts and poor vendor/project management. David.
Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems
On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Grant Maw wrote: > $360M makes QLD Health Payroll system debacle (which is based on > SAP/Workbrain) a baby at a mere $40M, and I echo Greg's sentiments about > doing it for half that price. > > It'll never happen but I'd love to see a post-mortem (pun intended) > detailing what made this project such a catastrophe. Amongst other things, > they've had to get private security guards in to protect payroll staff from > lynching, according to the Courier Mail. The more money you have, the more you feel you need to spend to get a good result. The more money available, the greedier and more dishonest people get. It is also a pattern (but not a fact) that as companies get larger their development practices get slower (and often worse) and hence more expensive. These factors almost always result in any government spending on any particular project being ridiculous compared to what it would take anyone of reasonable competency to complete. The answer is obviously to either have smaller projects, or have some rational selection strategy for companies to provide services. Of course, being government, selection strategies aren't what the general public would consider "rational". -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems
$360M makes QLD Health Payroll system debacle (which is based on SAP/Workbrain) a baby at a mere $40M, and I echo Greg's sentiments about doing it for half that price. It'll never happen but I'd love to see a post-mortem (pun intended) detailing what made this project such a catastrophe. Amongst other things, they've had to get private security guards in to protect payroll staff from lynching, according to the Courier Mail. On 23 June 2010 11:22, Greg Keogh wrote: > >"with surgeons forced to compete with nursing staff and anaesthetists > >for access to computer terminals" > > Remember computer terminals. We used to cue up for access to them back in > the early 80s. I hope that sentence is not literally true. > > >If only they'd used .NET ;-) > > Yeah, they spent $360,000,000 on the project, and I would done it for half > that. > > Greg > >
Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems
On 23 June 2010 11:22, Greg Keogh wrote: >>"with surgeons forced to compete with nursing staff and anaesthetists >>for access to computer terminals" > > Remember computer terminals. We used to cue up for access to them back in > the early 80s. I hope that sentence is not literally true. Let them submit batch jobs on punched cards, then. > >>If only they'd used .NET ;-) > > Yeah, they spent $360,000,000 on the project, and I would done it for half > that. > > Greg > > -- Meski "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
RE: [OT] HealthSMART problems
>"with surgeons forced to compete with nursing staff and anaesthetists >for access to computer terminals" Remember computer terminals. We used to cue up for access to them back in the early 80s. I hope that sentence is not literally true. >If only they'd used .NET ;-) Yeah, they spent $360,000,000 on the project, and I would done it for half that. Greg
Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems
It looks like a big project probably with a lot of platforms. Seems there is a bit of Intersystems who do a lot of healthcare development. http://www.zdnet.com.au/intersystems-hits-healthsmart-goal-339298733.htm And hardware issues as well. "with surgeons forced to compete with nursing staff and anaesthetists for access to computer terminals" If only they'd used .NET ;-) On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Greg Keogh wrote: > http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/computers-could-cause-deaths-warn-doctors-20100621-ys9i.html > > http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/hospital-shunned-over-computer-revelations-20100623-yw22.html > > > > In The Age newspaper yesterday with a follow-up today. > > > > Does anyone here know what sort of a system HealthSMART is or what sort of > platforms, tools and technologies were involved? Was anyone here involved? > (you can tell us, we’re like doctors in here). > > > > Greg
Re: [OT] HealthSMART problems
On 23 June 2010 09:00, Greg Keogh wrote: > > http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/computers-could-cause-deaths-warn-doctors-20100621-ys9i.html > > > http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/hospital-shunned-over-computer-revelations-20100623-yw22.html > > In *The Age* newspaper yesterday with a follow-up today. > > Does anyone here know what sort of a system HealthSMART is or what sort of > platforms, tools and technologies were involved? Was anyone here involved? > (you can tell us, we’re like doctors in here). > No idea on the tools & tech front, but I think the recent public spending IT debacles (Queensland is a world leader in this regard) are more down to a combination of crap contracts and poor vendor/project management. David. -- David Connors (da...@codify.com) Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
[OT] HealthSMART problems
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/computers-could-cause-deaths-warn-doctors- 20100621-ys9i.html http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/hospital-shunned-over-computer-revelations-2 0100623-yw22.html In The Age newspaper yesterday with a follow-up today. Does anyone here know what sort of a system HealthSMART is or what sort of platforms, tools and technologies were involved? Was anyone here involved? (you can tell us, we're like doctors in here). Greg
