Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
Tony commented: open up 2 or more instances of VS2008 and the system eventually crashes, but that's something we find we do frequently Two or more instances crash your system? Hmmm I run 5 to 6 concurrent instances of VS2008 almost every day (a mixture of winforms clients and services projects, and some ASP), and although it can occasionally slow down a little (or a lot), I haven't had any problems with VS2008 stability due to the number running. And that's on a Vista box, to boot. Steve
Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:22 PM, ste...@malikoff.com ste...@malikoff.com wrote: Tony commented: open up 2 or more instances of VS2008 and the system eventually crashes, but that's something we find we do frequently Two or more instances crash your system? Hmmm I run 5 to 6 concurrent instances of VS2008 almost every day (a mixture of winforms clients and services projects, and some ASP), and although it can occasionally slow down a little (or a lot), I haven't had any problems with VS2008 stability due to the number running. And that's on a Vista box, to boot. Yeah. Obviously the problem with anecdote-based-analysis is that you don't get much good information to actually compare on. I'd guess his crashes are related to plugins or something external. Steve -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
Maybe so, but I use many machines with many different configurations. I often don't have much control over particular machine configurations (clients' machines, sometime XP, sometimes low memory 2Gig.) So it seems that you're lucky, or I'm doing something that you're not. Most of the time, I am using installs that have no extra plug-ins. Either way, it's an issue I come across quite frequently, and I'm sure other people have experienced it. T. -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of silky Sent: Monday, 29 March 2010 10:31 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:22 PM, ste...@malikoff.com ste...@malikoff.com wrote: Tony commented: open up 2 or more instances of VS2008 and the system eventually crashes, but that's something we find we do frequently Two or more instances crash your system? Hmmm I run 5 to 6 concurrent instances of VS2008 almost every day (a mixture of winforms clients and services projects, and some ASP), and although it can occasionally slow down a little (or a lot), I haven't had any problems with VS2008 stability due to the number running. And that's on a Vista box, to boot. Yeah. Obviously the problem with anecdote-based-analysis is that you don't get much good information to actually compare on. I'd guess his crashes are related to plugins or something external. Steve -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
Hi David, I am running VS2008 side by side with VS2010. I haven't hit any issues lately because I've stopped using it. After the 3 other patches (which were fine as far as I could tell), the final one was Silverlight 4, which wasn't available in the RC (not even sure if there was an RC released for Silverlight 4). I branched the project and upgraded the new version, but there were a significant number of places in our project that required fixing to cater for broken references, and code changes (this will probably happen regardless as I'm sure upgrading RIA services will cause breaking changes. I'd probably live with that one, but it's still painful, and is likely to delay). We couldn't operate of two versions, so for safety sake we went back to VS2008, given that everything wasn't there when we tried, and the unknown problems we were worried might turn up. Non delivery of project phases due to upgrading our toolset is not acceptable. So firstly, to improve confidence (1) I would need to be sure that there aren't breaking changes, or if there are, that there are very few breaking changes. Too many changes means too much pressure to correct all the problems within a short timeframe I would get after being given the green light to upgrade. (2) I would actually like to hear that everything that was promised has actually made it into the final product. That would mean that I don't have to install the release then a whole swag of patches just to get my team operational. That's a no brainer - if it's not all there, I won't do it straight away because it would end up being a hindrance rather than a help. Will Silverlight 4 make it to the RTM? And all the supporting tools? If it hasn't, wouldn't it be better to hold back the release until it does? (Supporting tools that are independent of VS2010 excluded, of course; it is acceptable for them to come later!) (3) It needs to have equal or better performance than VS2008. RC is ok, but not exceptional. Better is nice, but it won't kill us, it just better not be worse as each compile potentially takes productive time away from development/testing/debugging. I don't think management would tolerate our toolset becoming slower, so this is a must! (4) It needs to be equal or more stable that VS2008. If we have multiple instances of VS2010 open, will it eventually die just like VS2008 did? I haven't had a chance to test this. Unfortunately I find that having 2 or 3 instances open at a time (different projects) will require a restart 2 or 3 times a day. (5) It needs to have equal or less memory footprint that VS2008. (I have been known to have 19 applications open at once. People complain about how many applications I have open. It's the way I work, and I should be able to do it to get the best return on my investment in computing power.) Or at least it needs to better use the memory that it uses (or in VS2008, hogs). Hope that helps. I'm hopefully not coming across as negative, as I'm generally an early adopter. I just think these are practical things that I would like and perhaps need to see before the upgrade is possible. Each non delivery has the potential to delay our upgrade. Regards, Tony -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Kean Sent: Friday, 26 March 2010 2:32 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Tony, Can you elaborate on the problems you are hitting that weren't resolved by the additional patches? What's some of the critical major pieces that you believe are missing? I've been running VS 2010 pretty much since we started it and I can tell the latest builds are enormously better than the RC. David From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] on behalf of ton...@tpg.com.au [ton...@tpg.com.au] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:53 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Well, I guess we'll give it a try again once the product is released, but if it gives us any trouble, it won't be worth the effort and we'll pull back until service pack 1. That said, Microsoft often have extra RCs internally before RTM anyway, so hopefully that has resolved most of the issues people have, although it's not until it's in widespread use that people often find any real problems. I still have an expectation that the process will be relatively easy - if it's not then the added features won't be enough for us to upgrade unfortunately. I certainly don't want to lose even one man day per person in my team just because of a shoddy release. And if it's a couple of days after we've upgraded before we find real problems, then we're going to be pretty peeved - the rollback to 2008 will be more painful than the upgrade I think. On Fri, Mar 26th, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: RC seems to have lost it's meaning as most RC now are not really a candidate at all
RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
, but it's simply not as productive to be modifying just raw xaml IMHO. I am in the same boat as you. I really like the XAML designer in 2010 and am better in that, than in blend. Having said that, watching someone proficient in blend work some magic really shows how productive you can be in it. For me though, I really have a tough time adapting to its UI and flow. I use it for animations mostly and some styling and resort to 2010 for the rest. Thats probably the dev overpowering what little creative aspect I have. - Glav -Original Message- From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of ton...@tpg.com.au Sent: Friday, 26 March 2010 10:59 AM To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com Subject: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Hi all, I've been reading some of the comments on Scott Guthrie's blog, and there seem to be quite a few people asking for an RC2 of Visual Studio 2010. I think I agree with this, because I'm not convinced RC1 was anything more than a Beta anyway. I mean, how could it really be a Release Candidate if it was delivered with major pieces missing? There's nothing worse than having to install something and then apply a whole list of patches to get it to behave the way you want it. What a waste of time that is. Also, I noted a number of people commenting on whether they were going to take up VS2010. We will be going with VS2010 when it is released, provided that the feature set is not less than what we currently have, the speed is at least as good, the memory footprint doesn't grind our systems to a halt (open up 2 or more instances of VS2008 and the system eventually crashes, but that's something we find we do frequently) and the upgrade process is relatively straight forward. We attempted to upgrade our project to VS2010RC, but it had a number of issues, including problems with nested controls, etc. I know there is a patch out for that, but still, that would require everyone on my team to run those patches, so we won't be attempting to try it out just yet. So we are waiting for a more stable release. When that occurs, we'll probably switch over at a point in time that is convenient to us. Project phases are pretty short these days, so if Microsoft provides us with a relatively painless upgrade process, we'll probably go ahead and do it between phases. The major new feature that we care about is the built in xaml designer. It's always handy to get a rough visual feel for what we are constructing. Sure, it's not as good as Blend, but considering how resource intensive it is to run both Blend and VS2008, I think it will be quite handy for my team. As it is, most of us won't open Blend and do most of our work constructing and tweaking raw xaml. I know there are people who feel superior because they can do that, but it's simply not as productive to be modifying just raw xaml IMHO. Regards, Tony
Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
RC seems to have lost it's meaning as most RC now are not really a candidate at all to be the release version. When you see RC just read Beta. I think it is unlikely there will be another RC as the final version is meant to be released in 2 weeks. Craig. Hi all, I've been reading some of the comments on Scott Guthrie's blog, and there seem to be quite a few people asking for an RC2 of Visual Studio 2010. I think I agree with this, because I'm not convinced RC1 was anything more than a Beta anyway. I mean, how could it really be a Release Candidate if it was delivered with major pieces missing? There's nothing worse than having to install something and then apply a whole list of patches to get it to behave the way you want it. What a waste of time that is.
RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
That is the official 'launch' date, but I suspect the actual release will be some weeks later... Mitch From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of noonie Sent: Friday, 26 March 2010 9:02 AM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Confirmed. I got an email from the MSDN Subscription Center this morning... Microsoft has announced a revised launch date for Visual Studio 2010 and .NET Framework 4.0, with the official launch date in Australia now scheduled for Tuesday, 13 April 2010. -- Regards, noonie On 26 March 2010 11:15, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: RC seems to have lost it's meaning as most RC now are not really a candidate at all to be the release version. When you see RC just read Beta. I think it is unlikely there will be another RC as the final version is meant to be released in 2 weeks. Craig. Hi all, I've been reading some of the comments on Scott Guthrie's blog, and there seem to be quite a few people asking for an RC2 of Visual Studio 2010. I think I agree with this, because I'm not convinced RC1 was anything more than a Beta anyway. I mean, how could it really be a Release Candidate if it was delivered with major pieces missing? There's nothing worse than having to install something and then apply a whole list of patches to get it to behave the way you want it. What a waste of time that is.
Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
Well, I guess we'll give it a try again once the product is released, but if it gives us any trouble, it won't be worth the effort and we'll pull back until service pack 1. That said, Microsoft often have extra RCs internally before RTM anyway, so hopefully that has resolved most of the issues people have, although it's not until it's in widespread use that people often find any real problems. I still have an expectation that the process will be relatively easy - if it's not then the added features won't be enough for us to upgrade unfortunately. I certainly don't want to lose even one man day per person in my team just because of a shoddy release. And if it's a couple of days after we've upgraded before we find real problems, then we're going to be pretty peeved - the rollback to 2008 will be more painful than the upgrade I think. On Fri, Mar 26th, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: RC seems to have lost it's meaning as most RC now are not really a candidate at all to be the release version. When you see RC just read Beta. I think it is unlikely there will be another RC as the final version is meant to be released in 2 weeks. Craig. Hi all, I've been reading some of the comments on Scott Guthrie's blog, and there seem to be quite a few people asking for an RC2 of Visual Studio 2010. I think I agree with this, because I'm not convinced RC1 was anything more than a Beta anyway. I mean, how could it really be a Release Candidate if it was delivered with major pieces missing? There's nothing worse than having to install something and then apply a whole list of patches to get it to behave the way you want it. What a waste of time that is.
RE: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC
Tony, Can you elaborate on the problems you are hitting that weren't resolved by the additional patches? What's some of the critical major pieces that you believe are missing? I've been running VS 2010 pretty much since we started it and I can tell the latest builds are enormously better than the RC. David From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] on behalf of ton...@tpg.com.au [ton...@tpg.com.au] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2010 7:53 PM To: ozDotNet Subject: Re: [OT] Visual Studio 2010 RC Well, I guess we'll give it a try again once the product is released, but if it gives us any trouble, it won't be worth the effort and we'll pull back until service pack 1. That said, Microsoft often have extra RCs internally before RTM anyway, so hopefully that has resolved most of the issues people have, although it's not until it's in widespread use that people often find any real problems. I still have an expectation that the process will be relatively easy - if it's not then the added features won't be enough for us to upgrade unfortunately. I certainly don't want to lose even one man day per person in my team just because of a shoddy release. And if it's a couple of days after we've upgraded before we find real problems, then we're going to be pretty peeved - the rollback to 2008 will be more painful than the upgrade I think. On Fri, Mar 26th, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: RC seems to have lost it's meaning as most RC now are not really a candidate at all to be the release version. When you see RC just read Beta. I think it is unlikely there will be another RC as the final version is meant to be released in 2 weeks. Craig. Hi all, I've been reading some of the comments on Scott Guthrie's blog, and there seem to be quite a few people asking for an RC2 of Visual Studio 2010. I think I agree with this, because I'm not convinced RC1 was anything more than a Beta anyway. I mean, how could it really be a Release Candidate if it was delivered with major pieces missing? There's nothing worse than having to install something and then apply a whole list of patches to get it to behave the way you want it. What a waste of time that is.
