RE: [ozmidwifery] 3rdStage Feedback

[Isis and Andrew Caple]

At the hospital where I birthed my son, one of the 
questions on the birthplan list is 'Management of the afterbirth with an 
oxytocic injection is recommended. Do you have any thoughts about this?'  
My response was typed as this- 'I would like a physiological 3rd stage, unless 
medically indicated (increased/excessive bleeding)' When I handed my birthplan 
to the OB who I was 'allocated' to for my 36 week appointment, he proceeded to 
tell me that 'It was all well and good to deliver the placenta naturally, but 
its not very nice to die naturally from massive blood loss..' He told me that 
10-15% of women that don't have the injection die from PPH.. I immediately 
pointed out that that meant that 90-85% of women don't die. He looked at me over 
his glasses and smiled, put my plan on the table and changed the 
topic..
 
As it was, after my sons birth, a midwife I didn't 
know came in with the injection, told me that she was just going to give it 
to me to help the placenta out. I immediately looked at my mum, then at my 
beautiful midwife Lynne. Lynne told this other woman that I didn't want it, that 
all was in hand.. I actually have a photo of this moment, I am smiling, holding 
my son, Lynne is busy talking to the other midwife with my mum looking over her 
shoulder, ready to speak up if needed :) My placenta came on its own, with no 
problems. It is still in my freezer now, waiting to be 
buried..
 
That is my experience..


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Denise 
HyndSent: Tuesday, 9 December 2003 3:53 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; listSubject: 
[ozmidwifery] 3rdStage Feedback

Dear Ozmid list,
I need to know or get some feedback about the 
prevelance of physiological third stage in Australia.
That is are women being offered the option of 
birthing their placentas with out an oxytocic injection in Australain hospitals 

and is it standard practice to give women informed 
choice about this in homebirths (as I understand it) Personal 
expereinces of situations and protocols would be appreciated
 
Thank you 
Denise 

Re: [ozmidwifery] 3rdStage Feedback

[Joy Cocks]

Hi Denise,
At our small hospital (15 - 30 births a year), just recently 
it has become protocol that all women are to have the oxytocic for 3rd 
stage. This is a result of doctors' request. In the past, I think I was 
possibly the only midwife who spoke to them about whether or not they wanted it, 
others just said something like, ' here's a little injection to help the 
placenta come away'!
Regards,
Joy
 
 
Joy Cocks RN (Div 1) RM CBE IBCLCBRIGHT Vic 3741 
email:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Denise Hynd 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  ; list 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 15:52 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 3rdStage Feedback 
  
  
  Dear Ozmid list,
  I need to know or get some feedback about the 
  prevelance of physiological third stage in Australia.
  That is are women being offered the option of 
  birthing their placentas with out an oxytocic injection in Australain 
  hospitals 
  and is it standard practice to give women 
  informed choice about this in homebirths (as I understand it) Personal 
  expereinces of situations and protocols would be appreciated
   
  Thank you 
  Denise 

[ozmidwifery] 3rdStage Feedback

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Ozmid list,
I need to know or get some feedback about the 
prevelance of physiological third stage in Australia.
That is are women being offered the option of 
birthing their placentas with out an oxytocic injection in Australain hospitals 

and is it standard practice to give women informed 
choice about this in homebirths (as I understand it) Personal 
expereinces of situations and protocols would be appreciated
 
Thank you 
Denise 

Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S

[Rhonda]

  Don't know about Qld but I heard today that they are going to 
  increase private health insurance because claims for damages are going to 
  be regulated - there has to be 5% permanent physical damage or 10% mental 
  damage for a claim to be made.
  Can't imagine how this is going to affect childbirth.
   
  As a body piercer who has just been through the ringer with a case 
  that was a big fraud and the guy won and got a lot (sending us broke) 
   even though we did nothing - could not see how we could loose but 
  hey - biased judge and bad barristor and what do you get!  A really 
  dodgy result where every piece of evidence that contradicted him was 
  brushed over or just not mentioned.   Oh - they forgot thast bit 
  coz it didn't fit!  LOL 
   This new law will protect me from claims but - what about 
  ob's?
  But, the legal system and civil cases are not closely linked - law 
  does not realy come into civil matters - you don't need proof just need to 
  have a better sob story.
   
  Hmm - once again disolutioned by our 'wonderful' society.
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, December 
  09, 2003 12:37:48
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  C/S
   
  Without being able to say too much we may 
  have a law suit about to happen in Qld by a couple who were insensed to 
  find they had been coerced into a C/S to find there was nothing wrong with 
  their baby. Not only that, the info I have says the father has 
  evidence that the CTG trace was not as bad as it was made out to 
  be and that the partogram which he saw initially was later 
  changed. 
   
  I think they may have bitten off more than 
  they can chew. The husband is outraged and is intending to take legal 
  action.
   
  Hopefully we will hear more 
soon.
  Dierdre B.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] babies in recovery room

[Dierdre Bowman]

I just wanted to make a late reply to Cas regarding 
the babies in recovery. It is my experience that this is not normal practice at 
least in a couple of hospitals I know of in Brisbane.  Mum gets to see baby 
maybe for a couple of minutes and then baby is wisked away, usually in it's cot 
back to birth suits with dad, while mum gets sutured up. 
 
You were very blessed to get your babies in 
recovery.
 
Dierdre B.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

woohoo Rhonda!!!
I have an update on me breastfeeding in public.
this morning I was back in Penrith (same place I was booed and hissed at 
for breastfeeding baby on Sunday!), this time looking for a watch for my 
Birthday I ended up in one jewellery shop - baby in sling AND 
breastfeeding... whilst the young-ish sales girl had to try all these watches on 
my wrist (as it was too awkward for me to do it with both hands - baby in sling; 
the height of the counter and keeping my toddler sitting in the pram!!). My 
baby kept coming off the boob, so had to keep pausing to re-attach him! The 
sales girl never batted an eyelid.
Needless to say - I gave them some business - and bought my watch 
from them!!!
 
cheers,
Nicole
x x x x x
 

  From: 
  Rhonda 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:29 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth 
  and breastfeeding attitudes
  
  


  
Well, having my own shop I used to sit/or stand and serve customers 
while feeding - sometimes getting them to "help themselves" to the 
jewellery that they wanted.  Then fumbling change one handed to 
them or I would just serve them and answer questions etc  -  I 
never once had anybody complain or even look twice.  I guess as our 
shop is really relaxed and being body piercing - the only question about 
feeding in the shop that I ever got was - "Do you have your nipples 
pierced?"
 
I never mastered doing a piercing while breast feeding 
though.  Just had to put him down for that one. Generally had so 
many happy customers and even passers by who wanted to give him a cuddle 
that it was never a problem though.
 
Rhonda
 
---Original 
Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Monday, 
December 08, 2003 23:36:15
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 
[ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
 I used to breastfeed mine (one-handed) while pushing a 
supermarket trolleyaround doing the weekly shop! I even managed to 
continue at the check-out bypassing up one item at a time from the 
trolley to the conveyor belt. Notconventional or restful but when 
you have 4 small children things just haveto be 
done!Lesley- Original Message -From: "Wayne and Cas" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
Monday, December 08, 2003 12:47 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 
Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes> I breastfeed 
my bub in church :)>> Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel 
McCullough> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
www.casmccullough.com 
-Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
On Behalf Of JoFromOz> Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 11:29 
AM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding 
attitudes>>> I feel very strongly about the breast 
feeding in public issue as well.>> I can't WAIT to do it 
myself! No wonder some people have so much> trouble breastfeeding 
- it's not considered normal enough to do infront> of people, so 
how do they know how to do it and how to fix the common> problems 
with it?>> I could be on my high horse for hours about 
this, but I'll jump off> before I start galloping away 
:)>> Breastfeeding is just so important, and anyone who 
tries to tell me not> to do it will cop an earful! 
:)>> Jo>> --> Babies are Born... 
Pizzas are delivered.>>> --> This mailing 
list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit  
to subscribe or unsubscribe.>> --> This mailing 
list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit  
to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored 
by ACE Graphics.Visit  
to subscribe or unsubscribe..

  

  
  


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Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

I hope the couple take this to the media if 
they pursue this - this story DEFINATELY needs to be told and heard 
!!!
 
regards,
Nicole

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dierdre Bowman 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 12:33 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] C/S
  
  Without being able to say too much we may have a 
  law suit about to happen in Qld by a couple who were insensed to find they had 
  been coerced into a C/S to find there was nothing wrong with their baby. Not 
  only that, the info I have says the father has evidence that 
  the CTG trace was not as bad as it was made out to be and that the 
  partogram which he saw initially was later changed. 
   
  I think they may have bitten off more than they 
  can chew. The husband is outraged and is intending to take legal 
  action.
   
  Hopefully we will hear more soon.
  Dierdre B.

[ozmidwifery] C/S

[Dierdre Bowman]

Without being able to say too much we may have a 
law suit about to happen in Qld by a couple who were insensed to find they had 
been coerced into a C/S to find there was nothing wrong with their baby. Not 
only that, the info I have says the father has evidence that 
the CTG trace was not as bad as it was made out to be and that the 
partogram which he saw initially was later changed. 
 
I think they may have bitten off more than they can 
chew. The husband is outraged and is intending to take legal 
action.
 
Hopefully we will hear more soon.
Dierdre B.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Rhonda]

  Well, having my own shop I used to sit/or stand and serve customers 
  while feeding - sometimes getting them to "help themselves" to the 
  jewellery that they wanted.  Then fumbling change one handed to them 
  or I would just serve them and answer questions etc  -  I never 
  once had anybody complain or even look twice.  I guess as our shop is 
  really relaxed and being body piercing - the only question about feeding 
  in the shop that I ever got was - "Do you have your nipples 
pierced?"
   
  I never mastered doing a piercing while breast feeding though.  
  Just had to put him down for that one. Generally had so many happy 
  customers and even passers by who wanted to give him a cuddle that it was 
  never a problem though.
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, December 
  08, 2003 23:36:15
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
   I used to breastfeed mine (one-handed) while pushing a 
  supermarket trolleyaround doing the weekly shop! I even managed to 
  continue at the check-out bypassing up one item at a time from the 
  trolley to the conveyor belt. Notconventional or restful but when you 
  have 4 small children things just haveto be done!Lesley- 
  Original Message -From: "Wayne and Cas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Monday, December 08, 2003 12:47 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) 
  birth and breastfeeding attitudes> I breastfeed my bub in 
  church :)>> Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough> 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  www.casmccullough.com 
  -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of JoFromOz> Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 11:29 
  AM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding 
  attitudes>>> I feel very strongly about the breast 
  feeding in public issue as well.>> I can't WAIT to do it 
  myself! No wonder some people have so much> trouble breastfeeding - 
  it's not considered normal enough to do infront> of people, so how 
  do they know how to do it and how to fix the common> problems with 
  it?>> I could be on my high horse for hours about this, but 
  I'll jump off> before I start galloping away :)>> 
  Breastfeeding is just so important, and anyone who tries to tell me 
  not> to do it will cop an earful! :)>> 
  Jo>> --> Babies are Born... Pizzas are 
  delivered.>>> --> This mailing list is 
  sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit  
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.>> --> This mailing list 
  is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit  
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored 
  by ACE Graphics.Visit  
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[megan davidson]

I have also BF in church, where my father was a priest. No one commented.
thats What god, being a wise woman, made them for.
Megan

- Original Message -
From: "Pinky McKay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 4:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> Hi Cas, God on you -that's what god made breasts for!
>
> Reminds me when I was at a nieces wedding and a tiny bub in front of us
> began to cry, parents were obviously not about to BF in church -James then
2
> said in a very loud voice - "Mummy, the baby wants a booby" I later
> discovered we were sitting directly in front of the person who was taping
> teh service - my brotherinlaw, father of the bride was quite bemused - my
> kids were the first on my husbands side of the family to be breastfed.
>
> Pinky
> - Original Message -
> From: "Wayne and Cas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 3:47 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
>
>
> > I breastfeed my bub in church :)
> >
> > Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.casmccullough.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JoFromOz
> > Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 11:29 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
> >
> >
> > I feel very strongly about the breast feeding in public issue as well.
> >
> > I can't WAIT to do it myself!  No wonder some people have so much
> > trouble breastfeeding - it's not considered normal enough to do infront
> > of people, so how do they know how to do it and how to fix the common
> > problems with it?
> >
> > I could be on my high horse for hours about this, but I'll jump off
> > before I start galloping away :)
> >
> > Breastfeeding is just so important, and anyone who tries to tell me not
> > to do it will cop an earful! :)
> >
> > Jo
> >
> > --
> > Babies are Born... Pizzas are delivered.
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[megan davidson]

I do that now!! Whilst shopping at spotlight yesterday my mum overheard me
say to Lailah (2 months) that she could have a feed whilst we did this
shopping and that way she would not be unhappy on the way home. My Mum then
said how different I was to my sister, who is also BF a newborn, in that she
would find a quiter place to sit and then use a shawl as a cover. I on the
other hand whilst being proud of my sisters BFing, believe in the active
persuit of desensitisation of the "civilised" society, towards BFing.
Megan
- Original Message -
From: "Lesley Kuliukas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> I used to breastfeed mine (one-handed) while pushing a supermarket trolley
> around doing the weekly shop! I even managed to continue at the check-out
by
> passing up one item at a time from the trolley to the conveyor belt. Not
> conventional or restful but when you have 4 small children things just
have
> to be done!
> Lesley
> - Original Message -
> From: "Wayne and Cas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:47 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
>
>
> > I breastfeed my bub in church :)
> >
> > Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.casmccullough.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JoFromOz
> > Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 11:29 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
> >
> >
> > I feel very strongly about the breast feeding in public issue as well.
> >
> > I can't WAIT to do it myself!  No wonder some people have so much
> > trouble breastfeeding - it's not considered normal enough to do infront
> > of people, so how do they know how to do it and how to fix the common
> > problems with it?
> >
> > I could be on my high horse for hours about this, but I'll jump off
> > before I start galloping away :)
> >
> > Breastfeeding is just so important, and anyone who tries to tell me not
> > to do it will cop an earful! :)
> >
> > Jo
> >
> > --
> > Babies are Born... Pizzas are delivered.
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

Cas, I'm not sure anyone could match that!!! Certainly not me anyway - I
have breastfed pretty much everywhere... meaning boring old shops; parks;
buses; trains etc etc.
I remember being crammed onto a bus with my first baby (way back in 1992)...
and I was stuck sitting next to a stuffy middle-aged man in a suit... my
baby started to get restless/whingy, so I popped him on the boob.
I swear it was the noisiest my baby had ever fed (it seemed like it
anyway!) - you could hear every slurp and gulp on this relatively quiet
bus - and I was sweating away, thinking that he would say something to me (I
was only 20 yrs old !) - and I remember planning my come back in case he
did - "it's either the baby cries or he has a breastfeed!!! you choose!!"

cheers,
Nicole
- Original Message -
From: Wayne and Cas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:30 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> What's the wildest place you've bf your baby? I fed Liam in the queue
> for the top level of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. Got a few funny looks
> but just explained "Il Faim!" (translation if my spelling is correct...
> "He's hungry!" : ) )
>
> I will bf Dan anywhere I please... It's still a free country. Anyone who
> gives dirty looks for that needs to learn how to relax (putting it very
> politely LOL...)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Cas.
>
> Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.casmccullough.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne
> Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 5:43 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes
>
>
> this really surprises me, I have just never had even a nasty look
> (though lots of smiles) - feeding my baby (and now my toddler) on buses,
> in bank queues, at funerals, weddings, at restaurants with my
> grandmother who bottlefed all of her 7 children... I forget that there
> are still people around with this attitude. My daughter still feeds A
> LOT at 22 months so we still feed in public all the time and I would
> have the same reaction you did - assuming they must be talking about
> something else.
>
> To be honest I have heard far more women who bottle feed complaining
> about getting dirty looks and feeling embarassed in public than
> breastfeeders, possibly they feel guilty and are expecting to get a
> negative response so they see one. I do think that the majority of
> Australians have a reasonable attitude today, or at least know to keep
> their negative opinion to themselves.
>
> cheers
> Jo
>
>
> At 23:05 +1100 7/12/03, Ron  & Nicole Christensen wrote:
> >Not only am I exasperated by the constant shameful attitude about
> >natural birthing in this country ...but it seems to not stop there!!!
> >. I was strolling out of a local shopping plaza this morning, with
> >my darling 4 month old baby suckling contentedly on the breast all
> >snuggled up in his sling... when a middle-aged woman past me and
> >commented quite loudly to her husband "that's disgusting!!". Being in
> >my own little world with my baby - my first thoughts were that she was
> >in deep conversation with her husband... until I eventually looked up
> >and she was giving me a filthy look!!! I am already disheartened by the
>
> >ignorance of natural birth in this country ... but when the sight of a
> >mother breastfeeding her young baby draws venom (especially from
> >another woman) it really makes me sad. I hope that this woman does not
> >have girls...goodness knows what advice she would be passing on!
> >
> >sorry - just had to share my bizarre experience of today... kind
> >regards, Nicole
> >
> >--
> >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
> --
> Jo Bourne
> Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

I agree Jo - from now on - it's look out Penrith Plaza - here I come -
'boobs on parade!!'.

(I loved your story about that dear old soul).
love Nic
x x x xx x
ps - we must get together soon - busting to show you our homebirth video
and I know how you just can't get enough of them

- Original Message -
From: jo hunter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> Go for it Nic,
> Get them both out with a bub on each side. Penrith Plaza wouldn't know
what
> hit them!
> I have a lovely breastfeeding story to share with you that occurred at the
> very same shopping centre Nicole is talking about.
> Maya was about 4 weeks old and I had the other 3 kids with me shopping. We
> stopped for a milkshake and so that I could feed the baby.
> I was in lala land as often happens when zoning out feeding and I felt
these
> 2 hands (the hands almost felt familiar) gently grasp my shoulders and a
> sweet voice whisper in my ear "good for you, you keep doing that - it's
much
> better to see than all these young girls bottle feeding". When I turned it
> was an elderly women (she must have been 80 in the shade) and she just
gave
> me a loving smile and turned and hobbled away. It absolutely made my day -
> week in fact - and she still comes into my thoughts quite often.
> It has certainly made me comment to women who are breastfeeding in public
> and who are looking a little uncomfortable with it, after knowing how such
a
> comment made me feel.
> Jo Hunter
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ron & Nicole Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes
>
>
> > Hi Jo,
> > Up until yesterday, I had never experienced
> > anything negative towards me breastfeeding any of my three children in
> > public.
> > Actually of late, I have been doing it more than ever, as I try to
finish
> > off my Christmas shoppingit's been great having my baby in the
> sling...
> > and as soon as he gets restless or whingy as I stand in the long
queues...
> I
> > just pop him on the boob and voila!! Instant calm and quiet!!!  Good
> for
> > baby, good for me... and good for all around me!!!
> > It makes me wonder though, if this woman has such repulsion at seeing a
> very
> > young baby suckling at my breast (which even for the fairly prudish is
> > deemed OK) - what she would think if she saw me breastfeeding my toddler
> > (2.4 yrs)??!! Or even still - both baby and toddler at the same time -
now
> > wouldn't THAT have been something??
> >
> > cheers,
> > Nicole
> >
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Jo Bourne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 6:43 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes
> >
> >
> > > this really surprises me, I have just never had even a nasty look
> (though
> > lots of smiles) - feeding my baby (and now my toddler) on buses, in bank
> > queues, at funerals, weddings, at restaurants with my grandmother who
> > bottlefed all of her 7 children... I forget that there are still people
> > around with this attitude. My daughter still feeds A LOT at 22 months so
> we
> > still feed in public all the time and I would have the same reaction you
> > did - assuming they must be talking about something else.
> > >
> > > To be honest I have heard far more women who bottle feed complaining
> about
> > getting dirty looks and feeling embarassed in public than breastfeeders,
> > possibly they feel guilty and are expecting to get a negative response
so
> > they see one. I do think that the majority of Australians have a
> reasonable
> > attitude today, or at least know to keep their negative opinion to
> > themselves.
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > Jo
> > >
> > >
> > > At 23:05 +1100 7/12/03, Ron  & Nicole Christensen wrote:
> > > >Not only am I exasperated by the constant shameful attitude about
> natural
> > > >birthing in this country ...but it seems to not stop there!!! .
> > > >I was strolling out of a local shopping plaza this morning, with my
> > darling
> > > >4 month old baby suckling contentedly on the breast all snuggled up
in
> > his
> > > >sling... when a middle-aged woman past me and commented quite loudly
to
> > her
> > > >husband "that's disgusting!!".
> > > >Being in my own little world with my baby - my first thoughts were
that
> > she
> > > >was in deep conversation with her husband... until I eventually
looked
> up
> > > >and she was giving me a filthy look!!!
> > > >I am already disheartened by the ignorance of natural birth in this
> > country
> > > >... but when the sight of a mother breastfeeding her young baby draws
> > > >venom (especially from another woman) it really makes me sad.
> > > >I hope that this woman does not have girls...goodness knows what
advice
> > she
> > > >wo

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

Lesley - I love it!!!
It's amazing how talented us women are!! I can't imagine my husband trying
to do what we do (if he could breastfeed, that is) ie. calming the baby,
whilst doing the shopping, whilst thinking about what we should have for
dinner that night, whilst keeping one eye on your roming toddler; whilst
comparing prices on a can of chick peas ... (and the list goes on!!)
he he he!!!
Nicole
x x x x
- Original Message -
From: Lesley Kuliukas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 11:37 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> I used to breastfeed mine (one-handed) while pushing a supermarket trolley
> around doing the weekly shop! I even managed to continue at the check-out
by
> passing up one item at a time from the trolley to the conveyor belt. Not
> conventional or restful but when you have 4 small children things just
have
> to be done!
> Lesley
> - Original Message -
> From: "Wayne and Cas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:47 PM
> Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
>
>
> > I breastfeed my bub in church :)
> >
> > Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.casmccullough.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JoFromOz
> > Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 11:29 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
> >
> >
> > I feel very strongly about the breast feeding in public issue as well.
> >
> > I can't WAIT to do it myself!  No wonder some people have so much
> > trouble breastfeeding - it's not considered normal enough to do infront
> > of people, so how do they know how to do it and how to fix the common
> > problems with it?
> >
> > I could be on my high horse for hours about this, but I'll jump off
> > before I start galloping away :)
> >
> > Breastfeeding is just so important, and anyone who tries to tell me not
> > to do it will cop an earful! :)
> >
> > Jo
> >
> > --
> > Babies are Born... Pizzas are delivered.
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Lesley Kuliukas]

I used to breastfeed mine (one-handed) while pushing a supermarket trolley
around doing the weekly shop! I even managed to continue at the check-out by
passing up one item at a time from the trolley to the conveyor belt. Not
conventional or restful but when you have 4 small children things just have
to be done!
Lesley
- Original Message -
From: "Wayne and Cas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> I breastfeed my bub in church :)
>
> Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.casmccullough.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JoFromOz
> Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 11:29 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
>
>
> I feel very strongly about the breast feeding in public issue as well.
>
> I can't WAIT to do it myself!  No wonder some people have so much
> trouble breastfeeding - it's not considered normal enough to do infront
> of people, so how do they know how to do it and how to fix the common
> problems with it?
>
> I could be on my high horse for hours about this, but I'll jump off
> before I start galloping away :)
>
> Breastfeeding is just so important, and anyone who tries to tell me not
> to do it will cop an earful! :)
>
> Jo
>
> --
> Babies are Born... Pizzas are delivered.
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

--
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RE: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Wayne and Cas]

What's the wildest place you've bf your baby? I fed Liam in the queue
for the top level of the Eiffel Tower in Paris. Got a few funny looks
but just explained "Il Faim!" (translation if my spelling is correct...
"He's hungry!" : ) )

I will bf Dan anywhere I please... It's still a free country. Anyone who
gives dirty looks for that needs to learn how to relax (putting it very
politely LOL...)

Cheers,

Cas.

Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jo Bourne
Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 5:43 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes


this really surprises me, I have just never had even a nasty look
(though lots of smiles) - feeding my baby (and now my toddler) on buses,
in bank queues, at funerals, weddings, at restaurants with my
grandmother who bottlefed all of her 7 children... I forget that there
are still people around with this attitude. My daughter still feeds A
LOT at 22 months so we still feed in public all the time and I would
have the same reaction you did - assuming they must be talking about
something else.

To be honest I have heard far more women who bottle feed complaining
about getting dirty looks and feeling embarassed in public than
breastfeeders, possibly they feel guilty and are expecting to get a
negative response so they see one. I do think that the majority of
Australians have a reasonable attitude today, or at least know to keep
their negative opinion to themselves.

cheers
Jo


At 23:05 +1100 7/12/03, Ron  & Nicole Christensen wrote:
>Not only am I exasperated by the constant shameful attitude about 
>natural birthing in this country ...but it seems to not stop there!!! 
>. I was strolling out of a local shopping plaza this morning, with 
>my darling 4 month old baby suckling contentedly on the breast all 
>snuggled up in his sling... when a middle-aged woman past me and 
>commented quite loudly to her husband "that's disgusting!!". Being in 
>my own little world with my baby - my first thoughts were that she was 
>in deep conversation with her husband... until I eventually looked up 
>and she was giving me a filthy look!!! I am already disheartened by the

>ignorance of natural birth in this country ... but when the sight of a 
>mother breastfeeding her young baby draws venom (especially from 
>another woman) it really makes me sad. I hope that this woman does not 
>have girls...goodness knows what advice she would be passing on!
>
>sorry - just had to share my bizarre experience of today... kind 
>regards, Nicole
>
>--
>This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
>Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


-- 
Jo Bourne
Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[jo hunter]

Go for it Nic,
Get them both out with a bub on each side. Penrith Plaza wouldn't know what
hit them!
I have a lovely breastfeeding story to share with you that occurred at the
very same shopping centre Nicole is talking about.
Maya was about 4 weeks old and I had the other 3 kids with me shopping. We
stopped for a milkshake and so that I could feed the baby.
I was in lala land as often happens when zoning out feeding and I felt these
2 hands (the hands almost felt familiar) gently grasp my shoulders and a
sweet voice whisper in my ear "good for you, you keep doing that - it's much
better to see than all these young girls bottle feeding". When I turned it
was an elderly women (she must have been 80 in the shade) and she just gave
me a loving smile and turned and hobbled away. It absolutely made my day -
week in fact - and she still comes into my thoughts quite often.
It has certainly made me comment to women who are breastfeeding in public
and who are looking a little uncomfortable with it, after knowing how such a
comment made me feel.
Jo Hunter

- Original Message -
From: "Ron & Nicole Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 10:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> Hi Jo,
> Up until yesterday, I had never experienced
> anything negative towards me breastfeeding any of my three children in
> public.
> Actually of late, I have been doing it more than ever, as I try to finish
> off my Christmas shoppingit's been great having my baby in the
sling...
> and as soon as he gets restless or whingy as I stand in the long queues...
I
> just pop him on the boob and voila!! Instant calm and quiet!!!  Good
for
> baby, good for me... and good for all around me!!!
> It makes me wonder though, if this woman has such repulsion at seeing a
very
> young baby suckling at my breast (which even for the fairly prudish is
> deemed OK) - what she would think if she saw me breastfeeding my toddler
> (2.4 yrs)??!! Or even still - both baby and toddler at the same time - now
> wouldn't THAT have been something??
>
> cheers,
> Nicole
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Jo Bourne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 6:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes
>
>
> > this really surprises me, I have just never had even a nasty look
(though
> lots of smiles) - feeding my baby (and now my toddler) on buses, in bank
> queues, at funerals, weddings, at restaurants with my grandmother who
> bottlefed all of her 7 children... I forget that there are still people
> around with this attitude. My daughter still feeds A LOT at 22 months so
we
> still feed in public all the time and I would have the same reaction you
> did - assuming they must be talking about something else.
> >
> > To be honest I have heard far more women who bottle feed complaining
about
> getting dirty looks and feeling embarassed in public than breastfeeders,
> possibly they feel guilty and are expecting to get a negative response so
> they see one. I do think that the majority of Australians have a
reasonable
> attitude today, or at least know to keep their negative opinion to
> themselves.
> >
> > cheers
> > Jo
> >
> >
> > At 23:05 +1100 7/12/03, Ron  & Nicole Christensen wrote:
> > >Not only am I exasperated by the constant shameful attitude about
natural
> > >birthing in this country ...but it seems to not stop there!!! .
> > >I was strolling out of a local shopping plaza this morning, with my
> darling
> > >4 month old baby suckling contentedly on the breast all snuggled up in
> his
> > >sling... when a middle-aged woman past me and commented quite loudly to
> her
> > >husband "that's disgusting!!".
> > >Being in my own little world with my baby - my first thoughts were that
> she
> > >was in deep conversation with her husband... until I eventually looked
up
> > >and she was giving me a filthy look!!!
> > >I am already disheartened by the ignorance of natural birth in this
> country
> > >... but when the sight of a mother breastfeeding her young baby draws
> > >venom (especially from another woman) it really makes me sad.
> > >I hope that this woman does not have girls...goodness knows what advice
> she
> > >would be passing on!
> > >
> > >sorry - just had to share my bizarre experience of today...
> > >kind regards,
> > >Nicole
> > >
> > >--
> > >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > >Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Jo Bourne
> > Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


--
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Visit  to subscribe or uns

Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Ron & Nicole Christensen]

Hi Jo,
Up until yesterday, I had never experienced
anything negative towards me breastfeeding any of my three children in
public.
Actually of late, I have been doing it more than ever, as I try to finish
off my Christmas shoppingit's been great having my baby in the sling...
and as soon as he gets restless or whingy as I stand in the long queues... I
just pop him on the boob and voila!! Instant calm and quiet!!!  Good for
baby, good for me... and good for all around me!!!
It makes me wonder though, if this woman has such repulsion at seeing a very
young baby suckling at my breast (which even for the fairly prudish is
deemed OK) - what she would think if she saw me breastfeeding my toddler
(2.4 yrs)??!! Or even still - both baby and toddler at the same time - now
wouldn't THAT have been something??

cheers,
Nicole



- Original Message -
From: Jo Bourne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, December 08, 2003 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes


> this really surprises me, I have just never had even a nasty look (though
lots of smiles) - feeding my baby (and now my toddler) on buses, in bank
queues, at funerals, weddings, at restaurants with my grandmother who
bottlefed all of her 7 children... I forget that there are still people
around with this attitude. My daughter still feeds A LOT at 22 months so we
still feed in public all the time and I would have the same reaction you
did - assuming they must be talking about something else.
>
> To be honest I have heard far more women who bottle feed complaining about
getting dirty looks and feeling embarassed in public than breastfeeders,
possibly they feel guilty and are expecting to get a negative response so
they see one. I do think that the majority of Australians have a reasonable
attitude today, or at least know to keep their negative opinion to
themselves.
>
> cheers
> Jo
>
>
> At 23:05 +1100 7/12/03, Ron  & Nicole Christensen wrote:
> >Not only am I exasperated by the constant shameful attitude about natural
> >birthing in this country ...but it seems to not stop there!!! .
> >I was strolling out of a local shopping plaza this morning, with my
darling
> >4 month old baby suckling contentedly on the breast all snuggled up in
his
> >sling... when a middle-aged woman past me and commented quite loudly to
her
> >husband "that's disgusting!!".
> >Being in my own little world with my baby - my first thoughts were that
she
> >was in deep conversation with her husband... until I eventually looked up
> >and she was giving me a filthy look!!!
> >I am already disheartened by the ignorance of natural birth in this
country
> >... but when the sight of a mother breastfeeding her young baby draws
> >venom (especially from another woman) it really makes me sad.
> >I hope that this woman does not have girls...goodness knows what advice
she
> >would be passing on!
> >
> >sorry - just had to share my bizarre experience of today...
> >kind regards,
> >Nicole
> >
> >--
> >This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
>
> --
> Jo Bourne
> Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
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Re: [ozmidwifery] birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Jo Bourne]

this really surprises me, I have just never had even a nasty look (though lots of 
smiles) - feeding my baby (and now my toddler) on buses, in bank queues, at funerals, 
weddings, at restaurants with my grandmother who bottlefed all of her 7 children... I 
forget that there are still people around with this attitude. My daughter still feeds 
A LOT at 22 months so we still feed in public all the time and I would have the same 
reaction you did - assuming they must be talking about something else.

To be honest I have heard far more women who bottle feed complaining about getting 
dirty looks and feeling embarassed in public than breastfeeders, possibly they feel 
guilty and are expecting to get a negative response so they see one. I do think that 
the majority of Australians have a reasonable attitude today, or at least know to keep 
their negative opinion to themselves.

cheers
Jo


At 23:05 +1100 7/12/03, Ron  & Nicole Christensen wrote:
>Not only am I exasperated by the constant shameful attitude about natural
>birthing in this country ...but it seems to not stop there!!! .
>I was strolling out of a local shopping plaza this morning, with my darling
>4 month old baby suckling contentedly on the breast all snuggled up in his
>sling... when a middle-aged woman past me and commented quite loudly to her
>husband "that's disgusting!!".
>Being in my own little world with my baby - my first thoughts were that she
>was in deep conversation with her husband... until I eventually looked up
>and she was giving me a filthy look!!!
>I am already disheartened by the ignorance of natural birth in this country
>... but when the sight of a mother breastfeeding her young baby draws
>venom (especially from another woman) it really makes me sad.
>I hope that this woman does not have girls...goodness knows what advice she
>would be passing on!
>
>sorry - just had to share my bizarre experience of today...
>kind regards,
>Nicole
>
>--
>This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
>Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.


-- 
Jo Bourne
Virtual Artists Pty Ltd
--
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Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

RE: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal hearts

[Sally Westbury]

Hurrah!! This is the kind of thoughtful response that makes me excited
to be a midwife. 
I really want us to own our policy and guidelines. To look at our
origins and use and own the skills that are valid! Throw off the
redundant! Make midwifery practice, woman centred, evidence based and
SAFE!!

Love Sally
Homebirth Midwife
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marilyn
Kleidon
Sent: Tuesday, 9 December 2003 6:32 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal
hearts

I totally agree Maureen, I rarely if ever encourage active pushing, by
active 2nd stage I actually meant there is no ambiguity about it and mum
can
push when and how she wants too.

I have to say I went back to my guidelines, policies and procedures
manual
and discovered much to my embarrassment that we are actually discussing
procedures for labour and birth here. Guidelines are usually much less
explicit such as indicating  that we would be monitoring FH not
necessarily
how often or even with what. Umm! I am in the middle of night duty. I
should
learn to be quiet on-line.

However, after muddling around in my head thoughts on Maggie Banks
article
kept resurfacing. And I agree with her even more in that truly much of
what
we now do re monitoring of women and babies is medical in tradition and
we
have coopted it to our use. I am not sure this invalidates it. I should
also
acknowledge that  the founding mothers, if you will, of lay midwifery in
the
USA of the 1960's-1970's (such as Ina May and the founders of Seattle
Midwifery school) were actually taught by rather radical medical
practitioners many of whom were still conducting homebirths themselves
at
the time, thus the origins of their practice were more medical than
midwifery- as some of you who may have seen early videos from the Farm
or
even Seattle would attest to. As the re-emerging profession matured and
we
have all travelled so much we have learned from women in other parts of
the
world and so we bump up against other traditions and other borrowings.
My
daughter witnessed midwives in Africa with their ears plastered to the
labouring woman's stomach taping out the FHR with their fingers, but is
this
tradition or a habit passed on from observers of colonial
doctors/nurses?

However, I don't think we will see, nor do i wish to see, a randomised
controlled trial of intermittent auscultation vs  no monitoring of
healthy
women during labour, personally I don't think this would be ethical, but
maybe I am misguided. I do think retrospective studies could be done
comparing healthy pregnant women with minimal surveillance/monitoring
(those
who show up at hospital with head on view, birth before arrival, or
birth
shortly after the midwife sets up at their home) to those with other
levels
of monitoring(by midwives) in labour at home or hospital. I think this
would
be quite expensive because one would need to look at thousands of data
sheets and your results would be dependent upon the accuracy of the data
entered. Anyway, I think it is a study waiting to be done even though I
am
predicting it just might show there is no significant difference in
outcome
and I am not sure if this would or even should change our practice.

I also think we need to be mindful that the reason midwives often
practiced
without instruments of any kind or medicines was because they were
forbidden
by law to do so. Even today in many states of the USA (but not all
thankfully) it is illegal for a midwife to carry syntocinon or oxygen
(she
would be practicing medicine without a licence if she did), so you learn
to
practice within those parameters not because it is midwifery but because
it
is what you are allowed to do. As midwives we should no longer allow
ourselves to be regulated by another profession either by limitation or
extension (does that make sense?) of practice. Surely it is up to us and
the
women we serve to describe our own profession with mindfulness and
hopefully
openess.

marilyn

marilyn

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 5:34 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal
hearts


> I listen 30 min inactive 1st stage, then 15 min 2nd stage, after each
> contraction when pushing. I dont listen for long following conts, just
> enough to reassure mum. FHR can be very variable when pushing, and a
slow
> rate needs checking. I am usually reluctant to encourage active
pushing as
I
> have found this tends to play havoc with FHR.   Maureen
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marilyn
> Kleidon
> Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 12:51 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fwd: response from Pat and Nicky and fetal
> hearts
>
>
> Hi Denise:
>
> I have now read Maggie Banks' article that you suggested and find
myself
> totally agreeing w