Re: [ozmidwifery] PCOS info?

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Therre is strong evidence out there that a diet low 
in carbohydrates is a start you can make  yourself - as it seems to relieve 
the other symptoms that accompany PCOS like spots etc.
Steph ex adelaide - now in uk (maybe back to oz 
someday!?)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tania 
  Smallwood 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2005 12:30 
PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] PCOS info?
  
  
  Hi 
  all,
   
  Have a friend who has just been 
  diagnosed with PCOS, has no babies yet, but has been trying for some 
  time.  Wondering where I can access some good quality info for her, she 
  feels like she wants to be fully informed before starting any treatment.  
  It’s not something I’m at all familiar with, and so thought there would be 
  some wise wo/men out there who might be able to shed some light for her, and 
  me too.
   
   
  Thanks
   
  Tania
  x

Re: [ozmidwifery] Long Long labours

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

A situation that springs to mind about 'mental blocking of labour' is by a
midwife friend who told of a case where a woman was 'stuck' at 2nd stage and
her husband - while being of great support throught the labour - had the
midwife thinking about the effect he might be having on her. She asked him
to get something from the kitchen or something - and spoke to the labouring
woman along the lines of ' ok we're going to get this baby born now...' and
within a miunute she had 'released her pelvic floor enough to birth the baby
and (unforutantely) her other half missed out! - hoiwever - reading the
situation the midwife had surmised that the woman was uncomfortable about
'letting go' in front of her husband and this was delaying the explusion
(for want of a better phrase) stage which can also be a factor in women with
previous sexual abuse histories (incidentally so the research goes).
The fact that her nearest and dearest was apparently blocking her release in
secaond stage was in no way a reflection on how loving she felt towards
him...the midwife just sensed that it may be something deeper and not
acknowleged concsiously.
I found this very interesting as I know couples who very strongly wnat to
experience birth togther as well as ones who feel it is an exclusive 'women
only activity'. I always use this alternative as an opener at classes as
assuming partner attendance is not always what both parties feel is
right a little off the point, but I have felt strongly from birth
stories told at reunions that 'mental/emotional state' is very much a factor
that many couples didn't bargin on dealing with in relation to how the
labour progressed.
Interesting subject!
Steph, Adelaide.
- Original Message -
From: "Tracey Askew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 3:05 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Long Long labours


> Hi all,
> I was just wondering, in our current post natal group of first time mums,
> during the sessions where we have been talking about birthstories, the
> common theme this term has been these really long labours, with very slow
> (if any) dilation. Most of them ended with intervention, and
disappointment
> in their body. Now most of us here understand the physiology of
childbirth,
> how fear will create an adrenaline rush, which directly works against
> labour. What I would love to hear, are any stories where a woman birthing
> has experienced a dramatic change as a result of the support she has
> received. For example; something said to her that has helped her to
release
> fear during the process, which has then allowed her body to make a
dramatic
> turn during her labour. Another example might be a story related to why a
> long slow labour has been an important experience for a woman. I would
love
> to cite some stories to women (the art of storytelling being a VERY power
> medium) helping them to understand the unique and wonderful complexities
of
> the human body, and how it is a wonderful teacher, allowing us to grow and
> expand into infinite possibilities. Helping women to see what is possible
> will go a long way into their birthing and mothering experiences.
> Thank you in advance for sharing your wisdom.
> Tracey Anderson Askew
>
> --
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> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Severe Nausea

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

On the point of nausea in 
general, are there cultures that report little/no nausea in pregnancy? - seem to 
remeber it from a book of Shelia Kitzingers. As Rhona says - your body is trying 
to tell you something in this very crucial time of pregnancy - rather like the 
odd cravings people get which usually turn out to be replacing a vital nutrient 
missing in your regular diet.
(I always remember my mum 
craving asparagus when preg. with my brother - something she wouldn't normally 
have eaten - she was absolutely dying for some!! - and the family joke is that 
my dad was not prepared to buy it as it was too expensive at the time!! It 
turns out that asparagus is v high in folic acid 60% of RDA - she is still cross 
with him today for refusing to get some for her!!)
That aside, are there 
hypermesis support groups here to give people moral support through the worst of 
it??
Steph 
Adelaide.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rhonda 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 9:58 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Severe 
  Nausea
  
  


  
One theory about nausea is that it is caused by the body trying to 
expel toxins and in this modern day of preservatives and chemicals it is 
any wonder women get severe nausia during pregnancy.
There are a number of detoxification diets available that involve 
eating only fruit and vegetables (small amounts at 2 hours intervals) 
and drinking warm boiled water with a squeeze of lemon juice.  Only 
for 10 days maximum.  And then add other things like bread and 
meats.  
And mostly vegetables should be eaten raw or almost raw with lemon 
juice over them and salad with lemon juice over it.  Especially 
avoiding foods that have preservatives, colours etc in them may be of 
some help in cleansing the system and hence clearing it of built up 
toxins.   Also, parsley tea is helpful but is a diuretic 
and so for each glass of parsley tea - have a glass of boiled water with 
lemon juice.
Combined with sea bands - as mentioned by others.  
Hope that helps.
Wish her luck.
Rhonda
---Original 
Message---
 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wednesday, 
September 18, 2002 21:32:36
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: 
[ozmidwifery] Severe Nausea
 I too found Sea Bands really helpful in my 2nd 
pregnancy. Severe nausea,though I was able to keep working. But I 
did not want my community clients& fellow nurses to know I was 
pregnant for the first 3 months, the seabands were great. Helen 
Grainger.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
Graphics.Visit  
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  IncrediMail - Email has finally 
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[ozmidwifery] "FRIENDS" birth!

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

ANyone catch the last friends 
episode last night??
I suppose on the upside 
(considering most TV shows have appauling records of documenting birth!) - at 
least she:
- was in labbour for more than 
5 minutes
- the birth was not 
dramatically inthe car/ corridor/ etc
-  appeared to have no 
pain relief or monitoring!!??
-  was showing emotions in 
labour which are common eg:self doubt at the end
- It was an undiagnosed breech 
- and was NOT rushed to theatre for a C/S!
- OK it wasn't actually active 
birth but at least she wasn't flat on her back for the 2nd stage and appeared to 
be giving it some wellie!! (although would have probably had difficulty getting 
a breech out from that angle!)
 
All very hilarious stuff - but 
am sure this has had a far more positive impact on the viewing public of how 
real births do happen than most of the media induced images. There was a MIDIRS 
review not so long ago (sorry can't remember) that examined media images of 
birth and breastfeeding and sure enough they came off pretty poorly as role 
models - Maybe influening the media/fictional type of imaging has more impact on 
the generl public than most campagins and rallies will ever have?! If pop stars 
(posh etc) have their births similarly scrutinised by fans - maybe manipulating 
media images with midwifery input / pressure can produce fictional role models 
with just as much clout as the real ones!!
Just a thought!
Steph.

Re: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Absolutely!! Everyone is so keen to see the 
pictures - that adverse effects are seen as hysterical overkillmy middle 
boy is left hnded (no offence!!) poss colour blind - from his kindy teacher 
assement and complains when his siblings speak loudly - that it msakes his head 
hurt - This is not a registered problem as far as I have taken it = but making 
observations I am always looking for a reason why his behaviour is tendin 
to  this path compared to his brother and sister. 
The trouble is that ultrasound - as far as I am 
aware  - as a clinical researcher in a previous life!!- - has never been 
clinically tested in the same way as drugs have had to be proven to cause/ or 
not an adverse event. it is taken as anecdotal that 'they seem alright' after 
years of use - and that is what i have to 'parrot' of the evidence of the U/S 
research so far in my classes.
Remain sceptical with everything - esp. if your 
body / baby tells you to the contrary!
Steph.CBE.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Pinky McKay 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 10:22 
  AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] ultrasound
  
  Are mothers generally given this info re 
  ultrasounds?? Would they consider it if they were offered it? OR has 
  ultrasound become such a "normal" part of pregnancy care - like 3d pictures 
  and videos now touted around even by proud grandparents -yes my neighbour was 
  ecstatic to see her prospective grandchild on video!!
   
  With my 4th baby (1983) I had ultrasound late in 
  preg to check position of a low lying placenta. the technicians were taking 
  much longer than I thought was necessary and my baby was becoming irritable 
  (She must have heard the train coming!!). When I asked why they were taking so 
  long -I was told  they were doing pelvic measurements as I seemed to have 
  a large baby and small pelvis.
   
  I asked if they had detemined the placenta 
  position (which they had) then sat up and said I am leaving. My baby is 
  distressed (mother instinct/ attunement - she certainly wasnt "enjoying the 
  interaction"  - interaction was what she enjoyed when her siblings talked 
  to her gently through my belly). The technicians were quite stunned and 
  disbelieving as they threw around "reassurances"(to themselves?) -' but we 
  need to check this, you might need a  caesarean' - I said, 'read my 
  history -I have birthed three babies larger than 4000 grams -"I will not be 
  flat on my back then and my birth hormones will help my pelvis make room for 
  my baby."
   
  My concern with this sound thing is the number of 
  children (one of mine included) who have hidden disbilities such as auditory 
  processing difficulties -although my child hears well one on one with no 
  background noise, he is unable to discern speech when there are background 
  noises -ie in aclassroom / when there is an airconditioner going. If 
  anything, he has supersensitivity to noise - a computer switched on (not being 
  used, simply the buzzing) in the family room can not be blocked out as he goes 
  to sleep in his bedroom and therefore irritates him significantly. (?? damage 
  to delicate nerves by ultrasound during pregnancy!!??)
   
  This of course (along with a light sensitivity 
  that affects visual perception - he now wears coloured glasses), makes 
  learning very difficult, exhausting,and frustrating, even though he is a 
  bright little boy. And, because he looks completely normal, plays well, 
  behaves ok (mostly!!) etc etc , he has had to bear all the usual trauma 
  of a learning disabled child labelled as "not striving" / could do better/ 
  must stay in to finish work etc etc.
   
  In This pregnancy I had a vaginal ultrasound - 
  once again to determine placenta position for bleeding.
  I am not into beating up on myself after the 
  event - self flagellation comes with the stretch marks!! but this 
  does raise questions for me  -maybe we won't see obvious damage for a 
  generation or so, or perhaps we are actually seeing this now. 
  Subtle handicaps are often more difficult to help or diagnose and 
  perhaps they ARE presenting in this generation of kids - look at the increase 
  of ADHD - although this, like other "hidden handicaps"  is 
  often attributed to "bad mothering" (dont get me started on the damage 
  caused by "behaviour management"), it is very real for the parents and 
  children living with it. 
   
   
  Pinky
  www.pinky-mychild.com
   

Re: [ozmidwifery] c/s for breech

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Title: Message



I have also read the 'natural birth' article 
offering the flip side to the C/S and at least there is some balance to this 
site - however they manage to make this N/Birth woman look exceptionally brave, 
extraordinary and financially secure enough to ba able to hire the private 
midwives and have the nice birth unit. It did not put it into context that this 
birth is NORMAL and perfectly feasible to most. 
It was commented by an american publication that if 
C/S rates do continue it will either bankrupt many health services or force a 
reduction in standards of care due to overstretching of the services. This is a 
fairly obvious conclusion and how do these 'experts' imagine we are all going to 
pay for it - especially as some obs. (v. small no. at present) are starting to 
hint that the more the C/S operation is perfected, the safer alternaitve it will 
become to ALL births and presumably the breech C/S recommendation is the thin 
end of the wedge when it comes to medical 'choices' for birth.
H
Steph.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Carolyn Donaghey 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 2:05 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] c/s for 
  breech
  What is civilised about being dissected.  I see no 
  reference in the article that this woman had any exposure to any informed 
  information or people.  Just a bunch of girlfriends who obviously had the 
  vaginal births from hell, over managed and intervened, one of which was an 
  obstetrician who are notorious for wanting caesareans for themselves due to 
  their own distorted view of birth - and the intelligent and sympathetic 
  consultation with her obstetrician (who probably thought, 'sure thing, it 
  makes my job so much easier, I get a bit more money from the government and 
  then I get to see you throughout the rest of your life for all the potential 
  complications you may suffer from the section'.Egad!  What a 
  disastrous way of informing women about caesareans.  All I could keep 
  thinking was, this must be an add supported by all those zillions of surgical 
  organisations that have an interest in women having caesareans.Woe is 
  me!CarolynVicki Chan wrote:
  000601c25acb$f0ae9770$0100a8c0@NOTEBOOK type="cite">





but lucky to be oh so civilized!
check this out!
 
http://www.mydr.com.au/default.asp?article=3614 


  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of Lynne StaffSent: Thursday, September 12, 
  2002 9:30 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  Re: [ozmidwifery] c/s for breech
  And has changed her birthgiving life 
  forever
  
- 
Original Message - 
From: Sally 
Westbury 
To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 
Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:52 PM
Subject: 
RE: [ozmidwifery] c/s for breech


I hope that she 
is advised to sue. This is gross 
negligence.

Sally 
Westbury

Re: [ozmidwifery] Implanon Implant

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

On a personal level, a friend has had the implant 
and it began 'traveling' around her arm and it is quite scarred now as they kept 
opening her up and looking for it!! - pretty horrible.
Steph. CBE

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Claudia van Duyn 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 6:01 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Implanon 
  Implant
  
  Has anyone come across clients with negative side 
  effects from the use of the Implanon Implant? In one of my job sites we use 
  Implanon on most of our ward population following birth, it is seen as a 
  wonder contraceptive.  In the other job site the local GP has just 
  informed me that quite a few of his patients have requested the removal of the 
  implant.   Un-desirable effects such as weight gain, mood swings etc 
  are quoted.&NBS; 
  What are your opinions/experiences of Implanon? Both the 
  GP and I are interested  in your opinions.
  Claudia
  
  
  Yahoo! Messenger for SMS - Now send & receive IMs 
  on your mobile via SMS

Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal ultrasound

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Has anyone had a pregnant woman complain of heat or 
pain at the site of a rountine ultrasound? My friend was always very 
uncomfortable with U/S and said that the baby would always move as if to get 
away. This happened in both her pregnancies - although she never refused the 
treament as she felt it was 'part of the process of being pregnant that you 
couldn't refuse' (she isn't a typically rebellious individual!!!)
I have heard discussions that postulate that U/S is 
responsible for among others::>>>: more left handers! - autism - cord 
tangling around limbs and neck (in the case that the baby moves abnormally to 
get away from the source of discomfort) and auditory problems (to do with the 
stage of hearing development and strength of wave used at the foetal age) - 
Anyone else heard this theory?
Steph.Adelaide.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 8:36 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] vaginal 
  ultrasound
  In a message dated 9/09/02 10:59:39 AM AUS Eastern Standard 
  Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  Sounds like an interesting read.  What does AIMS 
standfor?  Any idea when it was published (roughly)?Thanks, 
JenHi Jen...AIMS stands for the Association for 
  the Improvments In Maternity Services ...Ultrasound Unsound was published 
  in 1993...as a special edition of the AIMS Journal...I have a copy on my 
  bookshelf...I'll bring it to UNi on Wednesday Doris Haire has also written 
  extensively on the dangers of routine ultrasonography...published in AIMS 
  Journal Vol 1..Number 4-5"The Ultrasound Dilemma"and Joan Donely...the 
  wise woman in NZ...has also written extensively warning women of the "unknowns 
  of ultrasound".Cheers Tina 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Read in the newspaper

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Hi Deb,
I have heard of multiple foetuses that have since 
died in utero and while most get reabsorbed, some organs and body tissues 
can be bizzarely absorbed by the living foetus and go on to be born.  It is 
very common (I believe 1:5 pregnancies start off as twins or more) and only one 
foetus goes on to maturation, logically this means that some stem cells will 
remain and could proliferate into organs or - extremely rarely as this case is - 
go on to become a complete foetus. I have never heard of this situation before, 
but I'm sure that if proved 'truth is stranger than fiction'!!
Steph, Adelaide.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 3:51 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Read in the 
  newspaper
  I came across a single paragraph in the Weekly Telegraph 
  (i.e. the overseas weekly version of the UK Daily Telegraph) about a six month 
  old baby boy in China  who was operated on because of a distended 
  stomach.  A dead fetus of 3lb was found in the boy's stomach.  Dr's 
  said the dead baby grew inside the boy when he was inside his mother's 
  uterus.Now I'm not one to slavishly believe everything that I read in 
  the newspapers, but the Telegraph is a fairly reputable newspaper.  Did 
  anyone else read about this?  Has it been heard of before?Debbie 
  SlaterPerth, WA 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Bottled water

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

A quick addition to the debate on bottled water - NEVER use distilled water
to make up bottles, or indeed drink yourself as it contains no minerals and
will actually leach them from your body.
Stephanie.
- Original Message -
From: "Sandra J. Eales" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bottled water


> Irene
> There are many different types of bottled water.  You can buy distilled
> water which would be fine as it is just H2O, but spring or mineral water
> would nnot be appropriate - I think they all generally have a list of the
> minerals which are contained in them on the labels.
> Sandra
> - Original Message -
> From: Irene Munro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 2:53 PM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Bottled water
>
>
> > Does anyone have any info regarding the use of bottled
> > water when making up formula.   I have just heard that
> > it contains more sodium than tap stuff, is this true?
> > irene Munro LC
> > Alice Springs
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> > http://uk.my.yahoo.com
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Menstruation

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

To Jo,
I am sure that periods will not affect milk supply - am I right in thinking
that far from diminishing milk vol. - babies at around 6-12 months are
getting the most they will probably take from you ?as they are much stronger
suckers and are still getting most of their calories from B/milk. Also,
Kirsten is correct when she mentions about the percentile charts - they are
(appaulingly) correlated to 200 American bottle fed babies years back and
their resulting growth patterns. I had this confirmed by a nutritionist from
the womens and childrens in Adelaide not so long ago - and bascially we all
worry ourselves needlessly that our B/fed babies seem to bear little
relation to the smooth upward curve of the present graph. In truth, B/fed
growth is stepped (as I seeem to remember from my dissertation research
paper)along the lines of the growth spurts at 10 days, 6 weeks, 3 months and
6 months - they may go some time without seeming to put on weight and then
all of a sudden they will put on loads and 'catch up' to their graphical
counterparts. The fact that most B/fed babies can sometimes go for several
(even10days) without a poo is testament to the fact that they are utilising
all of the nutrients in the B/milk for the growth necessary at that phase of
their development. Artificially fed babies will produce a nappy most days -
unless they are constipated as a result
On a serious note, the obssession we all have with growth charts has surely
damaged the breasdtfeeding resolve of many a mum when her baby was 'failing'
to stick to that lovely upward curveI hope they get round to changing it
soon!!
Stephanie - Adelaide.
- Original Message -
From: "Kirsten Blacker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Menstruation


> Hi Jo,
> I think the timing of return to menses may have been coincidental. Many
> exclusively breastfed babies appear to be 'sliding' down the percentiles
if
> older growth charts are used. These growth charts were constructed using a
> small group of mainly formula fed babies with solids introduced at
4months,
> so exclusively breastfed babies don't meet these artificially high growth
> curves. There are new growth charts available for breastfed babies (I
think
> from W.H.O) which are a better way to plot BF babies' growth
>
> Kirsten Blacker
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jo Slamen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Midwifery List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 11:10 PM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Menstruation
>
>
> > A late footnote to this conversation...
> >
> > I am exclusively b/fing bub #2  - no solids, demand fed, no pacifier,
> > latches on at least 3 times per night, co-sleeping, and menstruation
> > returned last week at 4mos, 29 days.  Same feeding/sleeping scenario
with
> #1
> > and menstruation occurred when he was 5 months old.  I was hoping we'd
go
> a
> > little longer 2nd time around!
> >
> > Both boys on the 90th percentile for weight also, so have been pumping
out
> > the milk up to this age.
> >
> > Does anyone know how the return of menstruation affects milk supply - I
> have
> > heard/read conflicting reports.  My eldest's weight started coming down
> the
> > percentiles after menstruation returned - and he continued to feed
o/night
> > beyond 10 months.  wondered if he was needing solids, or if due to milk
> > supply diminished with return of other hormonal influences.  Wondering
> what
> > might happen this time.
> >
> > Jo
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> --
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Anyone for Active Birth?

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Hello Aviva,
I am also a CBE in Adelaide looking for some inroads to teaching - so give
me a call if you want My background is the NCT in the UK for training
and emphasising womens choice in all it's forms!
like your attitude!
Steph - West Lakes - Adelaide.
- Original Message -
From: "Aviva Sheb'a" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Anyone for Active Birth?


>
> Hello, and thank you for your encouragement, all who replied.
>
> I've been teaching movement in numerous ways since 1966 and never a
> complaint about safety. I've always told my students they don't HAVE to do
> anything in my classes, except what they're comfortable doing. I point out
> safe movements and explain why this movement is safe, and that one not.
>
> I live in Adelaide, my phone number's (08) 8333 2762, if anyone wants to
> ring me.
>
> Hugs all round,
>
> Aviva
>
> *Big Bellies are Beautiful*
>
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
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Re: [ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

I have been on both side of the B/feeding fence re the too hard to b/feed
debate - and I know the anguish of difficult attachment / baby pulling away
from the nipple etc My first son was this tricky feeder and I too felt
that B/feeding would be natural - where there's a will there's a way type
thing... However after 6WEEKS of cup feeding spoon feeding cracked nipples /
expressing / nipple shields and baby losing weight I discovered myself -
(Noone suggested it was an option) - but I was willing to try anything -
That I would keep offering the breast at every feed with a nipple shield -
which was the only thing he would latch onto! - and if the baby still got
frustrated I would give formula afterwards. I still expressed all the time
(I was hooked up like a cow for several hours a day!) Eventually at that 6
week milestone I tried faithfully the breast feed first and he ACTUALLY
latched on for the first time without fussing and pulling back - I was
nearly as overwhelmed as I had been in the delivery room and he was fine for
a year after that! That experience definately pushed me to the limit and
with the 2nd I was thinking that if the same sit. was to happen I wouldn't
have coped so long - thankfully the 2nd was a dream home birth - but all the
same I have endless sympathy for those with mountains of will and a tricky
baby as most seem to assume it is the mother that determines the success or
failure - sometimes the baby can be a little monkey!!
By the way Jamie was not tounge tied or anything physical - but i will say
he had a bad dose of pethidine post birth and was difficult to rouse - and
the midwives who tried to latch him on were quite rough with his head and
held it in a vice like grip to force him to the breast - I reckon it took
that many weeks to disassociate that experience from the breast feed.
Any other experiences like this? - I am always interested to see if
pethidine had anything to do with it as all other conditions were supposedly
Ok - ie position, latch, my diet etc.

Interesting debate - I always have a hard time at reunions when I have
correctly predicted the bottle feeders!
Ie. full of self doubt at the prenatal breast feeding class...AND ambivelent
husbands - big factor.
Steph. Adelaide.
- Original Message -
From: "MICHELLE WHITE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 3:51 PM
Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed


>
> I'd like to add my thoughts to this debate..
> I agree with you that I  think it's incredibly unfair to dismiss women who
> choose
> to bottle-feed as being selfish
> It's a tough decision to make and I doubt any women who has desperately
yearned
> for their child, would ever make that decision lightly.
> Before I had my little girl I decided that I would breastfeed because we
all
> know that it's the best thing you can do for your baby.
> I also thought it would be the most natural thing in the world.
> However, after a week of extreme pain and anguish I decided to put my
child on
> formula because I could not get her to attach properly, she wasn't getting
> enough milk, she was sick and jaundiced, I was a physical and emotional
wreck
> and faced leaving hospital without my little girl being able to feed
properly.
> It should have been the happiest time of my life, but I was totally
miserable.
> My baby looked miserable and my husband was distraught because we both
were
> suffering.
> It was a tough decision to make, I was treated like dirt by the nurses in
the
> hospital when I decided to switch to formula and I was offered no advice
or
> assistance on how to bottle-feed. Basically I was told that if I formula
fed, I
> was on my own, which made me furious.
> However I did switch to bottle-feeding and for ME I think it was the best
thing
> I could've done. I went from hating feed-times and feeling like a total
failure
> to being able to enjoy having my baby in my arms watching her feed.
> So, yes, breast is best. But please Megan, don't assume that someone is
any less
>  a caring, 'real' mother if their circumstances mean they'd rather
bottle-feed.
>
> Michelle.
> Perth w.a.
> -Original Message-
> From: owner-ozmidwifery
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 August 2002 2:09 PM
> To: ozmidwifery
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] too hard to brestfeed
>
>
> In a message dated 8/21/02 9:37:24 AM W. Australia Standard Time, Megan
> writes:
>
>
> > I wonder how many of these parents that find breastfeeding too tiring,
time
> > consuming, etc had oodles of energy to go out to nightclubs to all
hours.
> > Granted you have all Sunday to recover. There is so much energy for
doing
> > things that only benefit ones selfish needs(my opinion), if society
cared
> > as
> > much about birthing and nurturing as it does about football.
> Megan
>
> I have had three children.
>
> The first was formula fed from about 2 weeks of age.
>
> I would have dearly loved to breastfeed my second, but he died shortly
after
> birth, and so I went th

Re: [ozmidwifery] Controlled Crying

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Re: controlled crying gone MAD
Another eg of 'controlled crying' from the first 
week of life!! - a client with twins last year hired a maternity nurse who was 
drilled in the 'contented little baby' school of thought (UK equivalent to 
Ezzo?) and as she was there to tend the babies in the night  she was well 
motivated to get them to sleep through Anyway, as mum was b/feeding them 
both she was lying there in the middle of the night leaking while they were 
crying and nursey was diligently putting them back to sleep!! (god knows how she 
did it, but after a week it worked and they dutifully went back to sleep .Even 
tho mum was very wary of this practice - she listened to the 20 yrs experience 
m. nurse as she was all new to it. At the 6 week check the babies were not 
thriving after a v. healthy birth weight of 3.5kg each they were not gaining 
surprise surprise and the doctor was appauled at no night feeds and directed at 
least a couple more to be introduced at night. The BIZZARE end to this tale was 
that the maternity nurse refused to accept this night waking schedule and my 
client promptly sacked her thank goodness!!!
As an extremely sensible lady I must say I was 
surprised she was sucked into this inappropriet schedule - but at the end of the 
day you are very susceptible to any advice - good and bad - with your first 
pregnancy...
Steph - Adelaide.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Pinky 
  McKay 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:07 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Controlled 
  Crying
  
  Hi Lyn
  I look forward to meeting you - it would be great 
  for new mums to have someone trustworthy to carry/cuddle bubs while they 
  sleep. I will be happy to "slap your nannies round".
  I have a stand at kidzexpo and will be talking at 
  9.30 on Friday (god forbid!! Cant imagine any mums being THAT organised 
  -I will be struggling to get myself there) and have been asked to launch the 
  ASG Parent Briefings website - I think they must have run out of celebs 
  -around 12.30. 
  will have my daughters helping on the weekend so 
  will be more "available" - one is coming after uni lectures on 
  Friday.
   
  Denise
  I was just "joking" with a single friend recently 
  about how so many 40something women we know have separated from partners 
  and complain about hating sleeping alone, and that is taken as a 
  legitimate sorrow yet we EXPECT babies and children to manage without 
  protest.
   
  My email address will change tomorrow (optus 
  willing -there was a stuffup last time) as I will be getting cable. Try me at 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] or 
  through my website. I will rejoin the list when it si sorted out.
   
  By the way, the Ezzos have been "disowned" by 
  their own publishers because of the "failure to thrive" associated with their 
  regimes -parent directed feeding. The AAP has come out strongly against it, so 
  certainly Larissa, feel free to pass on anything that might convince this poor 
  mum she is being led up the proverbial garden path. I think many parents are 
  quite afraid babies will get the "upper hand" -the Ezzos come at the sleep/ 
  feeding issue from a behaviour/ discipline perspective and they are very 
  subtle -and dangerous.
   
  good luck Darren
   
  Pinky.
   
  Ps. I have some Pinky Bars from my sister in New 
  Zealand to hand out at my Kidzexpo stand - please ask if there are any 
  left!!!
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lyn 
Cottee 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 10:01 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Controlled 
Crying


Hi, 
Fellow Listers,
I’ve 
been a silent observer of the list for a couple of months now and have 
learnt heaps! Thanks to everyone.
I 
just wanted to say that although I have no qualifications in baby care 
except that of the mother of a one year-old, I must wholeheartedly support 
Pinky’s excellent explanation of why controlled crying isn’t a good option. 
A young baby’s only way of communicating is to cry. If they’re crying, 
there’s something they are telling you and it’s usually hunger, wet nappy or 
some other discomfort that thorough investigation will always find. If their 
communication is ignored, the message sent to them is that they may as well 
not communicate. I don’t need to state what a detrimental message that 
is.
I’m 
currently in the throes of launching an agency that specialises in overnight 
care of babies and I want my nannies to understand this and for this to be 
absolute policy. I therefore look forward to meeting you, Pinky, at Kidzexpo 
on Saturday with a view to perhaps organising some workshops for my nannies 
with this in mind.
Sincerely,
Lyn 
Cottee
 
-Original 
Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Pinky McKaySent: Tuesday

Re: [ozmidwifery] inverted uterus

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

In my first birth I had a few inexperienced staff attend at the end and when
it came to 3rd stage the young midwife - who was already in a state of panic
as the anaethetisit had told her off in front of me for calling him out for
an epidural when my baby's head was on the way out! - that she very
enthusiastically pulled on the cord and I managed to be assertive enough to
tell her to 'don't bloody pull so hard - leave me alone!' - as I really felt
strains in strange places inside me and luckily she backed off and it
delivered a few minutes laterwhen I had another contraction.I suppose it is
easy to blame extraneous factors - ie. condition of the womans body - when
hospital protocol is being followed vis a vis the 'controlled cord traction'
Steph.
- Original Message -
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] inverted uterus


> Vickie, stop being so Sarkie.. Have to admit I thought the same.  Cheers,
MM
>
> > Gee whizzikers...and I thought it was more common when pulling on the
cord
> of a placenta that had not yet separated...silly me!
>
>
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] OPs , POPs and the need for CS.

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Just another personal testament to the fact that OP can be a 'fluid'
situation in labour
With my 3rd - I was niggling for several days prior to labour becomming
established in a characteristic way by the sound of things! - and when I was
confronted with the drip senario that midwife got me off my backside (I was
v. tired by then) and got me walking the corridors - even the stairs! -
Pausing for contractions every so often I came back to see what was for
lunch - but before it had arrived (dried up sandwich anyway!) I had gone
into the hard concentrating phase of things and on hands on knees! The
midwife by this time could tell we were finally progressing and I also
overheard her tell another - " She is not comfortable in any position  -
must be an OP sign" So, she encoraged me to move between contractions into
various poses! - I was open to suggestion as baby was definately on the move
onto my spine - and things were pretty uncomfortable. Anyway all that
jumping about corkscrewed her into the right direction and she was finally
born about 3 hours after I should have had that sandwich!! (Cord round the
neck a couple of times probably contributed to her stubborn OP ) And she was
a big one - 4.5kg - and despite cord having to be cut several pushes away
from birth of the body she had 7 & 10 apgars - much to the relief of
everyone in the room  - husband and midwife slightly ruffled to say the
least - but as I was just the one doing the work had not appreciated the
apprehension in the room - probably just as well and got all those lovely
'on top of the world' hormones straight away but everyone else felt like
they needed a stiff drink!!

I suppose the 'moral of the story' was to have a midwife keeping a close eye
on your behaviour so she can pin point the times in your labour when you
will need to be encoraged to change position or walk if you haven't already
thought to do it under your own instincts. Because I kept remarking 'things
just don't feel right' - rather deleriously !- I really needed some outside
direction from a midwife who was watching me closely and also the
reassurance that things were actually ok to give me confidence in myself.

I have found the OP discussion really important as it is one of those
indicators that often lead to the whole cascade oif intervention saga and
there are many positve things to do before and during labour to relive the
situation. I have had many a couple come to reunion and tell me their
epidural / C/S / episiotomy / drip induction was done for the sole reason of
an OP which seems a bit drastic since there are so many labours that present
with an OP - esp. first births when stomach muscles are so tight!.. (ah
those were the days!!)

Ps. Jean Sutton's book has been a great eye opener for the content of my
courses!
Stephanie - Adelaide.
- Original Message -
From: "sally" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ozmidwifery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:46 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] OPs , POPs and the need for CS.


> Hi Lois,
>
> I think the strongest indicator for something being 'not right' is the
> woman saying it. One of our strengths in working closely with women,
> developing trust is that the woman trusts us to tell us 'stuff' and we
> trust and believe her.
>
> What an amazing journey.
>
> I'm again in awe of the knowledge that comes through this list and the
> open sharing of our different views and understanding to gain a wider
> perspective of being with birthing women.
>
> An aboriginal elder says
>
> ' Varied perspectives are the key to understanding,
> Understanding is the key to harmony
> Harmony is the key to Joy
> Joy is the key to enlightenment"
>
> But it all begins with being able to look from many varied perspectives.
>
> In peace and joy
>
> Sally
>
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>
--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Colic/osteopathy

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Thanks for your reply!
Posterior babies are often too stubborn to come out 
very smoothly!! - I've had a few myself!
However, with all the manipulation at birth I would 
think that she would benefit from chiro/osteo treatment to realign/correct any 
compression caused by her position in the womb, physical turning and the 
venthous all which put an obvious stress on the spinal and cranial tissue. 
Usually several sessions are needed to make sure things are in the right place 
for the long term. 
Best wishes with the chiro treaatment - the main 
difference between chiro and osteo is that the former are more concerned with 
bones and backs whereas the osteo is looking at soft tissue as 
well.
Stephanie. :)

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Sheena Johnson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2002 4:11 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Colic/osteopathy
  
  Stephanie
   
  The birth was a ventouse after a spinal and a 
  prolonged first stage, head in posterior, turned manually by the obstetrician 
  when doing a VE.
   
  We live in Warracknabeal and the closest 
  osteopath is Ballarat, 2 1/2 hours away. We have been to the chiropracter this 
  a'noon who did his masters in childhood conditions, and I got some NATREN 
  powder someone else suggested. The stomach sleeping didn't continue very long, 
  but the explosive green/yellow poo's have. We have sent a sample to path just 
  incase. However she is gaining weight, 8oz last week and 3oz this week. We 
  will get there in the end. they all grow up eventually!!!
   
  Sheena Johnson
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[ozmidwifery] Colic/osteopathy

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

To Sheena,
 
I wrote earlier to the list about the possibility 
that osteopathy may help to relieve the symptoms you describe in your 
grandchild. I have been doing some browsing of my own and have come across an 
austrailian site which may be of interest to you:
http://www.osteopathic.com.au/about_children.htm
 
Paediatric osteos are probably preferable as they 
are used to specifically dealing with the bones and soft tissue that are 
diffferent in babies to adults.
Colic and/or reflux is a horrible condition and 
while it is more common in formula fed babies (I know you said b/f) that is 
probably due more to a digestive difficulty of the cows protein - Breast fed 
babies do suffer froim the 'umbrella' condition which just means spasm (colic) 
and it could either be a reaction to what the mother is eating herself - but if 
the symptoms have been constant since birth I would guess that it is 
structural/physiological trapping of the nerve pathways etc possibly 
caused by events around the birthI would be interested to know how the birth 
went.!
In any case, I hope this is of help and you all get 
some sleep soon!!
Good luck, Stephanie CBE / nutritionist in 
Adelaide.

Re: [ozmidwifery] SIDS

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

I would also suggest a type of chiro - cranial 
oseopathic treatment. It is especially relevant for colicky babies as the nerve 
that sends signals to and from the digestive system is often most vunerable to 
some sort of damage at birth. The damage I mean is possible a miss alignment or 
compresion which can produce this constant pain which will not be relived by 
winding. The baby seems to be trying to relieve itself by shuffling up and down 
on its stomach? As the bones in the head are mobile around birth and sometimes 
posterior babies can become lodged in a less favourable position prior to birth; 
the cranial nerves and soft tissue can become misaligned and may or may not 
cause the baby symptoms. A paediatric osteo. once told me that every baby born 
by c/s or with forcept/vacuum should be routinely treated with this type of 
gentle massage which brings the tissues back into line. 
Even when the baby does not display symptoms in 
childhood my osteo. says that back and neck problems may be created at this 
point in life and develop later as they are compounded by time.
As it is a non invasive therapy I used it on all my 
children soon after they were born - then you never know if you have cured  
problem! - but it's worth a go if this little one is in so much 
discomfort.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  connorbear 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 4:50 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] SIDS
  
  My suggestion would be 
  chiropractic. Apparently it is great for colicky babies although I foudnd this 
  out after my colicky baby eventually grew out of it. We resolved ourslelves 
  with stomach sleeping and realised that the risk of SIDS was lowered by all 
  the other factors and sleep and a happy household was important. Just make 
  sure baby is on a firm mattress and turn her head so she is not face 
  down.
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Sheena Johnson 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Sunday, August 11, 2002 10:26 
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] SIDS

I am a mid student and have just joined 
this site. I also have a new 5 week baby living with us, she was 3 weeks 
prem and is our grandchild. I was wondering if anyone can help. Baby Ruby 
has not slept for 2 weeks now, she has really bad colic. Lynley has done all 
the right things regarding breastfeeding, spent the day with the Lactation 
Consultatant, sorted out too much fore milk which was contributing to 
explosive green stools, tried everything to get Ruby to sleep. Lynley and 
partner (my stepson) live 200 yards away from us. Last night I invited 
Lynley over to our house and I did night duty, changing and  burping 
Ruby while Lynley  just woke to feed. I got two hours sleep for 
the night. The only time Ruby slept was when she was face down on my chest 
when I was lying on the couch. In desperation this morning I put her down in 
the bassinette on her stomach and bingo! she is still asleep. When I put her 
on her side or back the wind pains wake her up and hurt her; on her stomach 
she grunts and pulls her knees up, wriggles around, then goes back to sleep. 
So what do we do now, with all the advice against stomach sleeping? Does 
anyone have any advice out there.
 
Regards Sheena 
  Johnson

Re: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding whilst pregnant?

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

To Rochelle,
I have been in a simlar situation to you ( or your 
sister) i was still b/f my second when i fell preg. with no 3 and - yes it was 
tiring, but probably more so as no 2 was only 9 months old and was feeding 
voraciously! However, I was glad to keep going as the b'feeding sessions made 
you sit  or lie down for at least 1/2hr throughout the day so I suppose it 
was like enforced rest! 
I was very wary of the morning sickness really 
making the whole routine a nightmare, but was amazed to get to week 14 with no 
symptoms of sickness at all (except for having to eat small meals all day!) 
After the sickness I had with the first 2 preg. I put the relief in the 3rd down 
to hormonal balancing due to the lactating hormones which has some bearing 
on the sick feeling. Maybe I wouldn't have been sick anyway, but the 3rd preg 
(in 3 years!) was definately easier toi cope with at the beginning. 

I agree with you that you need to keep the water 
intake up, but i would avoid drinking lots of cows milk, firstly it has no 
bearing on your own milk prod. and secondly it is likely to produce an 
intolerant reaction to a b'feeding child - maybe even a growning baby too. We 
were just not built to metabolise cow protein. Also, while I'm on my soap box, 
drinking loads of milk does NOT prevent osteoporosis - in fact it may make it 
worse as the combinations of minerals in the milk serve to leach the calcium 
from the body even though milk actually contains a quantity of calcium itself - 
the result is a small net loss. Calcium is available in lots of veg sources and 
tinned fish containing bones.
Anyway, that was a bit of a side line, as no 2 baby 
went on to feed up to my 4th month of preg and then weaned off himself. I don't 
know if he found the taste changed, or just got fed up and wanted to eat his own 
food!! (interestingly all my 3 came off the breast between 12 - 14 months 'by 
themselves' ) I foound that the only 'weak link' in the feeding chain while preg 
was mum being v. tired! - the milk supply was not compromised and no additional 
fluids were needed for the baby. You just need to make sure you eat maybe 5 - 6 
meals a day and drink plenty of water - as you said.
If you are concerned about supplying milk if your 
first will not / weans off the breast, I would say (and speaking as 
anutritionist here) from about 18 months babies do not need nutritionally 
speaking - to drink milk subsitutes - ie. cows milk / artifical formula milk 
etc. They will recieve all the nutrition they need from other food sources. It 
just seems to go together - a baby and a bottle of milk!! You will probably find 
they do not like the taste of cows milk anyway after 16month of b'feeding - they 
can do without it - in fact you will avoid biulding up the poss. of allergies 
and gut problems. ( in yog and cheese the constituents are different to straight 
milk and do no have the same effect). As I have said on this list sometime in 
the past - Cows milk is best for baby cows - and human milk is best for human 
babies!!! - surprisingly enough : > )
 
As for the colostrum issue when the new baby 
arrives, I did not go through that, but there will certainly be enough to go 
around as it would be if there were multiples - twins or triplets etc. I do know 
of a lady from an antenatal class a while back who fed her newborn and 2 year 
old in the delivery room!!! - So moving for everyone, esp. as the 2year old 
starter patting her new sister on the cheek and giggling!!!
 
It can be hard to juggle at first, but have heard 
very positive reports of the old worry of sibling rivalry being allayed esp 
during feeding times as they both get a look in!
 
Good luck!
Stephanie in Adelaide CBE

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Timothy 
  Haughan 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:37 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] breastfeeding 
  whilst pregnant?
  
  Dear List,
  My name is Rochelle, I am a newcomer to this fabulous forum. 
  I was wondering what advice anyone might have in relation to breastfeeding 
  whilst pregnant with the next bubba. My sister in law and myself are both 
  brestfeeding our 16 month old girls, however my sister in law is 16 weeks 
  pregnant with their second baby. I know some days I feel completely shagged 
  from feeding so I can't imagine how I would be feeding plus growing a new 
  bubba. My sister in law is dedicated to feeding the first, possibly until 
  after the new baby arrives. We have discussed a number of issues around tandem 
  feeding. We were wondering what health implications feeding through 
  pregnancy may have for her, the 16 month old or the growing baby, what 
  could/should she be doing to ensure optimum health for all. The eldest is 
  eating a very balanced solid foods diet and can go lengthy periods without 
  feeds, they are currently trying to eliminate (without weaning completely) 
  feeding off to sleep at night and any night feeds to make it a 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Rasberry leaf tea!

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Rowena,
I looked into this very question for a client a few 
months ago!!
The raspberry leaf tea is indeed a tonic which if 
taken (in tea - infusion- form, not tablet) will improve the co-ordinate action 
of the contractibility of the uterus - before the onset of labour, so presumably 
the brackston hicks contractions will be 'exercised'. It also has the property 
of 'ripening' the cervix to prepare for labour.  I think the general idea 
is that this 'tonic' will prepare the muscles and soft tissue for labour before 
the active phase of labour so that the initial phases are more 
efficient/effective. I believe there is one study as to it's clinical 
effectiveness cited in 'The practicing Midwife' journal in the UK I will see if 
I can search for it.
Most evidence is anecdotal and has been used by 
women as they hear from other pregnant women...ie it is not always propogated 
from 'official' channels!
Because it has an effect on the uterine 
contractions it is thought best to be used only towards the end of the last 
trimester in case it may affect a premature labour in those already susceptible 
to that condition.
It is not the most pleasant substance - although 
some may disagree!! - but to be effective you probably have to take it maybe 3 
times/day.
 
Stephanie - Adelaide.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rowena 
  Woolnough 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:15 
AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Rasberry leaf 
  tea!
  
  Dear all,
  I am a Midwifery Student working in the New 
  England Area Health Service and am 6 months through my rural training.  I 
  have a friend who is 24/40 pregnant and who is also a midiwfe, who asked me 
  the other day if I knew much about raspberry leaf tea.  She wanted to 
  know if it was this that she takes to increase unterine tone and contractility 
  in preparation for childbirth.  My knowledge is limited at this stage 
  about the use of it and whether it is the right tea to be using for the above 
  mentioned effect.  I would appreciate any help to answer her question 
  and/or increase my knowledge base.  Thank you for your time!
  Rowena

[ozmidwifery] Day time labour intervention study...

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Hi to all on list(s)
Found this reference to a study (done in the US but 
reported int he UK press) implying - actually one doctor does state bluntly- 
that doctors are too busy to wait for normal labour to progress during day time 
labours...
 
Writing in the Journal of Epidemiology and Community 
Health, Dr Webb suggested the pattern was linked to "increased pressures on 
doctors and hospital staff to 'clear' patients at times when they have other 
patients to see". 
 
 
It is also the consequence that:
 

Women who gave birth between these hours were 86% more 
likely to be given drugs and were 43% more likely to have an 
instrumentally-assisted delivery. 
They were also 10% more likely to undergo surgery to 
prevent vaginal tearing and 30% more likely to suffer severe tearing. 

I suppose it has been well known anecdotally 
before but it's now interesting to see a well supported study to highlight the 
obvious and to demonstrate that women suffer the perineal trauma in increased 
numbers in the day time labours.
If you want to read the whole article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_2131000/2131999.stm
 

ear infections / garlic oil

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

hi again Macha,
I have just been reading other people's replies to 
the ear infection prob and the reason garlic oil would work is that it has 
a very naturally potent antibacterial properties and can relieve the symptoms 
without the need for antibiotics which end up killing all your bodies good 
bacteria leaving the body open to re-infection the next time - (probably 
initiated by the mucus effects of drinking milk!!) (by the way a good website to 
learn about cows milk is www.notmilk.com 
)
In fact garlic is great for clearing your gut of 
'unfriendly' bacteria...and on that pleasant note I shall sign 
off!!
Stephanie.

Re: Water births in Rwh

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

 
on 18/6/02
wrote:
 
hospitals current policy stands because they say 
that yes, they do clean the baths, but no amount of cleaning can get rid of 
every single germ that is put in there.  We were also told during 
ante-natal (16 months ago) that the hospital policy on water births was a NO 
because they were concerned with workplace health and safety re: Midwives backs 
leaning over the bath, slipping etc.  
 
What may help 
this cross contamination issue is the alternative use of birthing pools with 
disposable linings - either in the original 'bath' or in a frame pool. 
Anyway, the same sort of germs/contamination is evident on hospital bed 
matresses, pillows, chairs and regular baths - whats the 
difference?
I used to advise 
my A/N class parents (on the advice of my sister who is a doctor herself!) 
to take in disinfectant wipes to clean toilets, basin edges and baths before 
they used them. (However this is from an English perspective when often 
bathroom faclities were shared between 2 or more labour rooms). I have had to 
clean blood from the previous occupant off the facilities in the past when I had 
my first baby in hosp.!!! - needless to say the next were home 
births!! 
Cross infection 
in hosp. - ESPECIALLY a maternity unit as part of a general hospital is an 
absolutely major issue and infection after C/S, episiotomy and other open wounds 
is a real threat to otherwise healthy postnatal women.
However - don't know what the solution 
is except for suggesting that home birth offers a real benefit 
by excluding non-familial 'germs' from the equation of this risk 
factor.
Steph.CBE

Re cosleeping again

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

 
Original excerpt:
 
and one of the big no, nos is cosleeping. One of the paeds is on 
the SIDS committee and apparently there where two cases in our area last year, 
two cases too many.
 
Just curious - was that 2 cases of SIDS when babies were 
cosleeping , or sleeping in their cots.???
Also, I have found the ref. for research into cosleeping and 
SIDS prevention; firstly that cosleeping babies breastfeed more frequently and 
larger volumes consumed (baby and mother don't waste energy in fully waking 
& getting up and then calming crying baby before latching on). This is 
postulated to have a general benefit on health if the baby was at risk of SIDS. 
Also, and more importantly the baby is in close proximity to the mother to 
receive breathing cues at times when his own is immature, and the fact that 
infants do sometimes have long gaps in their breathing pattern.
REF for both of these points are; James J McKenna: "Is 
sleeping with my baby safe? Can it reduce the risk of SIDS?" Horizons 1 no.4 
(spring/summer 1995). & same author, "The potential Benefits of Infant - 
Parent Cosleeping in relation to SIDS prevention" in SIDS in the 90's, ed. 
Torliev O.Rognum (Vancouver: Scandinavian Presss, 1995)
 
Steph.

Re:Diet

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

 I remeber shadowing a dietitian at a hospital 
years ago for my nutrition degree and she was in a constant embattled state with 
the docors and administrators as she attempted to bring the importance of 
nutrition to the top of the ward agendait was usually a losing battle. Even 
in some of the hospital wards many of the long stay chronically ill patients 
were actually malnourised and way underweight. I know it's a side issue to the 
case of already healthy pregnant women, but the culture rubs off on the whole 
place maintaining the general acceptance that the food in hospital is inadequate 
to say the least. 
Needless to say, the importance of diet is really 
crucial to the whole period of pregnancy and postpartum breastfeeding..so 
why do so many hospitals still outlaw food in the labour ward...???
I know it's an old point, but it confuses the hell 
out of all the parents I teach, especially as they are sometimes told by the 
midwife to eat a good meal before they come into hosptial when they phone 
into labour ward as they won't be able to eat once they cross the threshold!! 
Predictably, this doesn't make alot of sense to the parents and often the last 
thing on thier minds is cooking up a meal before they drive off to the labour 
room!
ANyway, probably  a good time to emphasise the 
importance of nutrition generally in pregnancy and Postp. is in the A/N 
programme and especially the fact that the woman will probably need to eat MORE 
after the birth as the energy requirements from B/F increase, predictably, as 
the baby is bigger...although this may not be as obvious to postnatal women (who 
are in that hormonally charged foggy brain syndrome anyway!) and often the big 
pressure is to lose all that pregnancy weight straight away.
Am I right in thinking that some cultures have a 
specific tradition of cooking a highly nutritious meal for the new mother and 
feeding her up in that period directly after birth ...(Kitzinger) A far cry from 
the tea and piece of toast I got!!
NB(these experiences are told from a UK 
perspective!! - any thought on eating in labour in OZ?!)
 
Steph - CBE SA 
(Adelaide)

Setting up pre-natal classes in Adelaide

[James & Stephanie Fairbairn]

Hi everyone on the oz list;
 
I have recently moved from England to Adelaide and 
as a qualified childbirth educator I am attempting to set up some classes here 
in Adelaide. At first, not knowing the system here I tried to find a post at a 
hospital - but I am not a midwife, so I didn't get very far with that... Right 
now I am thinking about running classes myself independantly and am wondering 
what is the best way to go about it.
 
I have been reading all the ozmid messages with 
interest over the past few months and would value your opinions about how women 
may feel about attending classes outside of the hospital system as it does not 
appear to be the 'culture' of the birth experience here. In Britain I used to 
work on behalf of the National Childbirth Trust and couples would book months in 
advance to get a place on a course as well as going to the hospital ones, so 
it's a bit of culture shock for me here!! I suppose the main differences in 
hospital and private classes were that you were in a smaller group of 6-8 
couples and each class were free to set their own agenda for the course and over 
9 sessions of 2 hours there was more time to discuss issues and practice 
positions and demonstrate massage etc.. Often the couples I taught were meeting 
together after the first few weeks and still see eachother regularly months and 
years later. In fact at the reunions the biggest benefit they cite is the group 
support in the postnatal period from people they have got to know closely and 
feel they have gone though this enormous experience together - it appears that 
the men get as much from this as the women.
 
I would love to hear any advice from everyone out 
there on the list and possibly midwives in Adelaide who could advise me on how 
of even if I could promote my classes in this area when women come to book in 
their pregnancy. Also, from any breatfeeding counsellors who might be prepared 
to lend some support to breastfeeding sessions within the course.
 
THANKS...from Stephanie in 
Adelaide.