Re: [ozmidwifery] Intro

[Liz Newnham]

Hi Jennifairy,
welcome  back to the list and congrats on finishing your mid.  Milly said
she's told you how jealous we are about your apprenticeship. I searched
around for someone to take me on in that capacity after I graduated but
no-one was willing at the time. Anyway, enjoy. No doubt will see you around
the traps. I'm due in 5 weeks with my 4th baby.
Cheers, Liz.
- Original Message -
From: Jennifairy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:14 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Intro


> Hi all, just a short (hopefully!) intro. Ive been away from the list for
> the last 2 or 3 years whilst doing my BMid here in SA - study tended to
> take over my life & keeping up with the volume of mail from here was
> just too much!
> Anyways, Im finished/registered/the 'real deal' now, a RM of the first
> cohort of 'direct entry' midwives in Australia, now apprenticing with a
> MIPP on my way to fulfilling 'the dream' and *really* enjoying my
> life now that Im not under the study thumb!
> Im madly trying to get my 'kit' together, & in the market for a
> waterproof doppler. What Im asking for from you gals (& maybe guys) is
> what you use/would recommend brand-wise. Ive only ever used Huntleighs
> in the hospitals Ive done placements at, but there are some others out
> there & wondering if anybody can 'give me the goss' - the Huntleighs are
> currently around $900+ so I need to know Im making the right decision! I
> havent started earning 'real money' yet so this is a big buy for me. Ive
> managed to find forcep clamps & a fabulous digital fishing scale for
> baby weighing on EBay (yeah, Ive become an EBay groupie now that I have
> the time), but if anyone has ideas/contacts etc for other stuff Id
> be really happy to hear from you (for eg, where do I get wooden
> pinards?). I need everything!
> cheers & thanx in advance
> Jennifairy
> RM!!
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine reaction

[Liz Newnham]

I too have trouble with the hep B vaccine. I give 
parents accurate and unbiased information (instead of the propaganda given them 
in the pamphlets) and also encourage them to take the decision as an important 
one, and talk about VISA etc. Although, I have to say I am not pushy in this, 
and those parents who have made up their minds, I give the vaccine without much 
further information given. I try always to present it as a choice that needs to 
be informed. What I've heard, but don't remember where from, was that the birth 
and early vaccination is, like Emily said, a way of "getting to" all babies 
while they're in hospital, i.e. a control mechanism, like the breast check and 
pap smear questions in pregnancy - while we've got them, lets knock these other 
things off the list. As if women aren't able to maintain their own health. 
Anyway, I thought too that it was all in order to have a population of teenagers 
and adults (in 15 years time) who are immune to hep B. I think it hasn't 
much to do with the risk of hep B in newborns at all (in fact almost 
non-existant surely). And even with this as the wanted outcome, I heard also 
(wish I could remember a source for this) that these teenagers are likely to 
need a booster anyway, as the early childhood ones won't last. Why then do they 
not just immunise the teenagers in the first place? I too am sceptical and 
wonder about money-making for the drug companies.
Liz 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  JoFromOz 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 7:52 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Hep B vaccine 
  reaction
  Nicole Carver wrote: 
  



Hi All,
Have just had a scary experience when a baby 
became floppy and stopped breathing three times after the Hep B 
vaccine. She is ok, but being observed for 24 hours in special care. It just 
reinforces my belief that giving all babies Hep B prior to discharge from 
hospital is unnecessary, and where there are no risk factors present, more 
dangerous than not giving it.
Nicole Carver.Hi Nicole 
  - just make sure you document that in the adverse vaccination reaction section 
  at the bottom of the vaccination card for the baby... Is there something to 
  fill in for pharmacy, too?  I am sure there is a lot of paperwork to fill 
  out for that kind of thing.  Just to make sure it gets into the stats for 
  the 'safety of Hep B vax'.Scary.Jo (RM)
  
  

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Bach Mid

[Liz Newnham]

Hang in there all you lot, it must be hard I know. Here is one 
RN trained midwife (and I too am jealous - there was no B-mid when I started my 
training) who will stick up for the B-mid course and its participants at every 
opportunity (and there are a few). I think you're right, whoever said it was 
fear of change.
 
Regarding the horizontal violence, I remember reading about it 
being rife amongst groups of oppressed people, e.g. slaves. The research 
addressed the fact that nursing and (whether we like it or not) most midwifery 
is medically managed, and that nurses and midwives are therefore an oppressed 
group (by the medical profession - read here very little autonomy). As an 
oppressed group, horizontal violence emerges as a kind of outlet - extremely 
negative for all involved. Other outlets for this kind of oppression 
(and I am not comparing nursing or midwifery to slavery directly by any means) 
are taking on the characteristics of the dominant group, take from that what you 
will, but I think I have seen it.
 
I guess here too you could think about research like 
that done by Mavis Kirkham, who claims that midwives who work in institutions 
(and therefore are answerable to doctors, and also institutional policy are in a 
constant state of conflict, because she is therefore not able to commit fully to 
being first and foremost the woman's advocate, as much as she might want to. The 
only way to fully be present to the woman is for the woman and midwife to have a 
relationship outside of any institution or medical control, i.e. independent 
practice. You could say this relates back to the first point also, it is hard to 
imagine a group of independent midwives 'eating their young',  only of 
being supportive.
 
Anyway, that's my rave for the day.
Liz.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tania & 
  Laurie 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 4:50 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bach Mid
  
  Hi Sadie
  I understand what you're saying about the RN certification 
  etc. It just seems that, from my perspective at least, that in some units 
  staff seem to think that because we are direct entry midders we know nothing - 
  because we don't have the RN registration behind us also. So, therefore, when 
  on a placement and I'm asked to do 'whatever', I jump at the chance if 
  for no other reason than to prove them wrong and to show we are willing (and 
  able) to do other stuff!! Yes, I may ask lots of questions along the way, 
  but I'd much rather do that and be seen as someone prepared to have a go 
  rather than sit back and say, sorry can't do that. A bit of a waffle I know, 
  but I'm getting a little frustrated and tired of defending my choice to do 
  direct entry mid to those who are not even willing to take a look at what our 
  program entails .. 
   
  Sorry, I know that's a bit off the track of what you were 
  saying Sadie. I do understand completely what you are saying about practice 
  outside what our registration covers. Please, nobody be offended by what I 
  have said here, this comes from experiences I have had as a Bmid student and 
  is not directed at anybody on this list.
   
  Ho hum, things can only get better!
  Tania
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Sadie 
To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 

Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 12:24 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bach 
Mid

Hi Tania,
I am a direct entry midwife trained in the UK which is the 
same as your BMid course. I work in Perth, and even though I was an 
auxiliary nurse before training (no certification), I am not insured to do 
'adult nursing' - that means I cannot relieve for meal breaks in emergency 
or work shifts in gynae or adult special care. It isn't because I don't want 
to, my WA registration forbids it. You need to be sure your registration and 
hospital is actually covering you for any tasks you perform outside your 
midwifery practice. There are 50 direct entry trained midwives here, and 
this applies to all of us. I also did 'general' placements in my 3 year 
training course, but that does not give you an RN 
certification.
Cheers,
Sadie

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Tania 
  & Laurie 
  To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 
  11:57 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bach 
  Mid
  
  Hi Kim
  I was interested in your comment about not being able to 
  be relocated to other 'wards' - is that from your point of view or 
  others'? I'm a current Bmidder at UniSA and in our first year, we did a 
  'general nursing' placement on a surgical ward to enhance confidence 
  and skills in the areas of basic nursing (BP, TPR etc blah blah blah, 
  changing dressings, catheters yada yada yada - you get the 
  picture).
   
  When 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Birthing Beds and recomendations/suggestions

[Liz Newnham]

I agree. Sofa beds are horrible. Better would be a low lying queen size bed
or floor mattress. Or what about a low platform with cushions a la the
"salle sauvage" at Michel Odent's Pithiviers birth centre if you don't want
a bed. Anything low to the ground is good for squatting, kneeling, lying on
or against, much more grounding than trying to birth or change position up
on a high hospital bed.
Cheers, Liz (about to do it again for a 4th time - 10 weeks to go!)
- Original Message -
From: Jenny Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Birthing Beds and recomendations/suggestions


> Hello Sue & All
> I would not recommend a sofa bed for a woman to use post-birth. Buy a
proper
> bed (Sealy etc' not a medical bed). Sofa beds are hideous to sleep on and
> are not physiologically safe for backs. Cheers
> Jenny
> Jennifer Cameron FRCNA FACM
> ProMid
> Professional Midwifery Education  Service
> 0419 528 717
> - Original Message -
> From: "Andrea Quanchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 7:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: Birthing Beds and
recomendations/suggestions
>
>
> > We used to have a lovely queen sized bed in our birth room that had
plenty
> > of room for three or more after the birth but someone in their wisdom
> > bought a new double 'obstetric' bed with all the gizmos!  The mattress
is
> > like a rock and I would hate to have to sleep on it. While the automatic
> > back rest is handy pillows always worked before, their is a little
> > platform for stuff that pulls out at the bottom and foot rests so that
you
> > can position for suturing etc if needed bit we always imporvised before
by
> > sliding the mattress partway off the base and using the base to rest
feet
> > on and a little table for stuff. These beds are really expensive and not
> > as woman friendly or condusive to use.  I find the woman view them as
> > hospital beds and tend once on them want to adopt the submissive patient
> > role rather than the normal bed which they treat more like their own.
> >
> > Andrea Quanchi
> >
> > On 06/02/2005, at 9:02 PM, scrosby wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded Message ---
> >> From: "scrosby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au
> >> Sent: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 19:50:39 +1000
> >> Subject: Birthing Beds and recomendations/suggestions
> >>
> >> Hi everyone,
> >> I work in a smallish midwifery unit in rural Victoria and we are
looking
> >> at
> >> purchasing some new beds for our newly developed birth rooms.
> >> Has anyone suggestions,, we don't have a huge budget but I would love
to
> >> hear
> >> from other midwives as to what they are using and their comments etc.
> >> One of our new rooms will be an active birth room that won't have a bed
> >> in
> >> it, only a sofa bed for post birth recovery. One of our other rooms we
> >> will
> >> use our current double bed however we would dearly like a couple of new
> >> beds.
> >> I would love feedback about this.
> >> Thanks in anticipation,
> >>
> >> Sue Crosby
> >> - --
> >> Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)
> >> - --- End of Forwarded Message ---
> >>
> >>
> >> - --
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> >>
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> >>
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maggie Banks midwifery intensive

[Liz Newnham]

Me too,
Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "leanne wynne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maggie Banks midwifery intensive


> Hi Andrea,
> Would it be possible for Maggie to come to Adelaide? - I'd be there in a
> flash!!
> Leanne.
>
>
> >From: "ID & AC Quanchi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re: Maggie Banks midwifery intensive
> >Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:15:04 +1100
> >
> >Andrea
> >I would definately be interested in doing it in Melbourne next year and I
> >know my friend Helen would too. I may also be able to drum up more
interest
> >here in Echuca (I understand you had problems recently so probably arent
to
> >keen on doing it here).  If the number of places in each session is only
14
> >any chance of arranging a rural session.
> >
> >Andrea Q
> >
> >
> >Andrea Robertson writes:
> >
> >>Hello,
> >>
> >>These are great programs and you don't have to go to New Zealand to do
> >>them we have one available in Sydney in a few weeks (November
25 -27)
> >>and this is a cheaper option!
> >>
> >>There are a few places left - the maximum number we will take is 14. If
> >>there is enough interest, we'll look at presenting one of these in
> >>Melbourne next year, maybe Queensland too let us know!
> >>
> >>You can find out more about the Sydney program here:
> >>http://www.birthinternational.com/event/intensives2004/index.html
> >>but you will have to be quick to register, as the closing date has
> >>passed
> >>
> >>Cheers
> >>
> >>Andrea
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>At 07:02 PM 30/10/2004, you wrote:
> >>>Hi,
> >>>I have just returned from a midwifery intensive held at Maggie Banks
home
> >>>in Hamilton, New Zealand.
> >>>Fantastic venue, great food, and very midwife-centred (not
> >>>obstetric-centred) hands on midwifery skills.
> >>>The workshops are limited to 10 visitors, and our group had 3 from
> >>>Australia and 7 New Zealanders.
> >>>
> >>>We covered shoulder dystocias, breech births, unusual presentations
(cord
> >>>prolapses, shoulder presentations etc), PPHs,resuscitation techniques,
> >>>suturing, and intubation. Most of the work was done through discussion
of
> >>>case scenarios which therefore covered all aspects of the mother and
> >>>baby's wellbeing and it was fascinating being aware of everyone's
> >>>experience in birth as well as their life experiences, and how these
> >>>affected their midwifery decisions and perspectives.(Maggie is the
author
> >>>of "Breech Birth Woman Wise" and "Homebirth Bound" - both available
> >>>through Birth International.)
> >>>
> >>>I was really blown away by the ease of practice in NZ - the midwives
have
> >>>full prescribing abilities, have access agreements to all the hospitals
> >>>and their PI insurance is covered in their yearly subscription to NZ
> >>>College of Midwives.
> >>>I knew all this stuff intellectually, but what I hadn't witnessed
before
> >>>was the way that working in a country where midwifery care is the norm
> >>>becomes so self-affirming for the midwives. One of the newest midwives
> >>>there, had taken on a case-load of 52 births in her first year out,
some
> >>>of them homebirths, and she had received $1950 for each woman she
> >>>assisted (governement paid) , with a $450 extra payment for homebirths
> >>>(which usually goes to the second midwife - a legal requirement at
> >>>homebirths). This translates as over $100,000 for her first year of
work.
> >>>
> >>>It wasn't the money that blew me away, it was the struggle free
attitude
> >>>of the midwives. Why do you need a GP back-up they asked? In NZ the
GP's
> >>>gave up attending births when the midwives were granted their current
> >>>status with rights to prescibe and request pathology etc, so all blood
> >>>tests, swabs, u/sounds etc are all managed by the midwives - if needed
of
> >>>course. When they take a woman into hospital, be that a planned
hospital
> >>>birth or a transfer in from a homebirth, the midwives can simply close
> >>>the door of the hospital room, wait til baby's born, then take the
family
> >>>home when they're ready. No fight, no fuss, but more help there if
> >>>required. Hmmm.
> >>>
> >>>I realise that the NZ midwives and community worked damn hard to attain
> >>>their current work status, and I realise that something similar is what
> >>>we're all working for over here, but boy, was it hard to get on the
plane
> >>>to come back home. And why are all you NZ midwives working over here
when
> >>>you've got such a great system??
> >>>
> >>>I know a number of Australian would-be midwives who are getting their
> >>>wings ready for NZ, and I've also heard that their numerous B(Mid)
> >>>courses are very willing to take in some Aussie counterparts!!
> >>>
> >>>Back to the Midwifery Intensives.
> >>>The cost was about $500 (Aust) plus airfares of  $400-$500 depending on
> >>>who you fly with.  (Freedom Air goes

Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998

[Liz Newnham]

Hi Tania,
thanks, and the idea of everyone doing 3 years is certainly woth thinking
about, maybe with status for some subjects like anat & phys. I know at FUSA
the 1st year B Mid students were doing a lot of the first year nursing
subjects (whether that was only because the course was just beginning I
don't know), so I guess the first year could be cut out, and do 2 years with
the same amount of births and follow-through women? I would have loved to do
that. Don't know if it's possible in that amount of time though. I have to
say I agree with the earlier thread of conversation that the actual catching
of the baby is over-emphasized (don't babies come out by themselves?), and
that spending the time with women in labour, observing quietly, assisting,
learning how to "be" is more important, and seemimgly not counted in
assessment. At least in my training it was "catches" that counted, though
the forwarded email from Nicki Leap seems to differ, and maybe it is
different for the 3 year program.
Anyway, enough raving from me. Might see you at the caseload meeting in Mt.
Barker.
Love, Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "Tania Smallwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re:
uterine rupture 1998


> Well said Liz.  Although I can't and wouldn't speak on behalf of other
> 'nurse/midwives' (which incidentally is not how I see myself, but is a
> common term used both here and in the US), you certainly articulated how I
> think many of us feel who were, in my mind, unfortunate enough not to have
> access to pure midwifery education.  My radical idea to help midwifery
stand
> up as a separate profession, is for ALL midwives, nurses or not, to be
> educated together, 3 years, same requirements.  I feel that this is the
only
> way to truly divorce ourselves from that old adage of being the
> Obstetrician's handmaiden.  That's not a statement about the irrelevance
of
> nursing, or that I think one is better than the other, it's what I think
> really needs to happen for women, and for the midwifery profession.  And
as
> a nurse in a previous life, yes, I would be willing to do that.  But
that's
> a bit off topic, what is relevant is that right now there are lots of us
in
> this great country of ours, educated in varying ways, to be with women as
> midwives.  We need to embrace that, not allow it to tear us apart.
>
>
> There is so much at stake for women and midwives at the moment in our
> current environment of political dictatorship and fear of litigation.
> Sadly, this seems to interpret into the midwifery profession falling apart
> at the seams, with little factions forming, all with their own idea of
what
> midwifery truly is.  I find it sad that I can truly appreciate the skill
and
> worth of the midwife who works tirelessly in the NICU, (and I am acutely
> aware that I don't posess some of those necessary skills for that area),
> supporting families and babies through a tenuous time, but that I don't
> receive the same respect back, as I work using my own set of skills,
> supporting women to birth safely at home. We are all skilled, in many
> different ways.  Our diversity and differing areas of skill and interest
> should be what unites us, not what forces us apart.  And the ways in which
> we are educated to work in our area of calling should also be that of
great
> interest, information sharing, and a means of learning from each other,
not
> a wedge to drive our profession even further away from unity.
>
> Enough of my early morning ramblings...
>
> Tania
> x
> - Original Message -
> From: "Liz Newnham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 8:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re:
> uterine rupture 1998
>
>
> > Hi Jen,
> > I am just concerned that this becomes another 'them and us' amongst
> > midwives. I am an RN trained midwife, though would have done three year
B
> > mid if it had been available. I am also a home birth mother and I feel
> there
> > is an expectation that RN trained midwives somehow do not carry the same
> > philosophies of normal birth. The university I trained at for my mid was
> > passionately non-interventionist, and I have to say the theory-practice
> gap
> > was huge for us too, all interventionist practice being experienced on
> > placement.
> >
> > As Trish, quoting Nicky, so eloquently said, "a midwife is a midwife is
a
> > midwife". All of the amazing independent midwives that I have met,
worked
> > with, w

Re: [ozmidwifery] Home Birth Statistics

[Liz Newnham]

Hi Fiona,
at last look, SA's home birth statistics were approx. 0.3%, and it may be
the homebirth rate nationally. A BBA means born before arrival (ie unplanned
home birth, born before arrival at hospital).
Good luck,
Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "D & F Gorrel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 2004 11:49 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Home Birth Statistics


> Dear All
>
> Could anyone help me with a Uni Assigment please.
>
> Does anyone know the current home birth statistics eg: The % of births in
> Australia that are home births.
> It doesn't need to be precise, just a general figure to highlight the
> relatively low number copaied to European countries.  I'm at Canberra Uni,
> doing Nursing on my way to Midwifery.
>
> I appreciate your help.
>
> Fiona Gorrel
>
>
>
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students

[Liz Newnham]

Yes Mary,
maybe I am being optimistic here, but I think the ones who want to change
things (like you) do try to do it at the workplace level, rather than
necessarily at a conference or political level. Even hitting their heads
against the wall for 20 odd years! Yes, it is slow. But I err on the side of
optimism.
Love, Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "Mary Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students


> You wrote ". I think though, many midwives may be expending their energy
to
> change things at their actual place of work rather  than in a wider
> political forum
> I am not so sure about that Liz. For 20 yrs  I have been trying to
motivate
> midwives to change, working  both from inside and outside the midwives
> forums/ACMI etc. and consumer organizations as well.
>
> ".> the system is so bloody slow to change -"  You are so right there! MM
>
>
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students

[Liz Newnham]

Tania,
you just reminded me of a dream I had last night, that PCA's (patient care
attendants) were being trained in the basics of midwifery so that hospital
midwives didn't have to do night duty. Bit of a worry hey.
Love, Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "Tania Smallwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 10:19 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students


> Wholeheartedly agree Andrea.
>
> We SHOULD all be outraged at what is happening.  How many of us shake our
> heads in disbelief when we hear of an Agency RN being placed on labour
ward
> for a shift?  I know it makes my blood boil!  And this is not because my
job
> is specifically threatened, it's that the whole being of midwifery takes a
> step backwards when things like this happen.  We become less and less
> visible to the general public, hospital managers, other health
> professionals, and most importantly, to women when the boundaries are
> crossed.
>
> The Nurses' Boards and other governing bodies have, over the years gone to
> great lengths to provide policy and practice guidelines regarding
regulation
> of what we can and can't do.  If only the same amount of energy and input
> was afforded this crisis, where midwives are now having political
> limitations placed on their right to practice within the scope of their
> educational and experiential capabilities...
>
> Tania
>
> PS Just to throw in another of my little pie in the sky ideas...how do we
> increase the membership to the ACMI?  Do as in NZ and make it a compulsory
> requirement of registration.  Maybe, if all midwives have to belong, we
will
> have a stronger body in a variety of senses of the word!
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Andrea Bilcliff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 10:27 AM
> Subject: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students
>
>
> > Well said Tania!
> >
> > All midwives and midwifery students should be working together,
supporting
> > each other (regardless of education, experience or workplace) for the
> whole
> > midwifery profession and for the right of women to be able to choose
how,
> > where & with whom they give birth. How will things ever change if we
don't
> > all 'stick together', join ACMI and support MC's efforts?
> >
> > Where is the support for those midwives who currently practise without
the
> > benefit of PII and whose registrations and income are at risk? The whole
> > profession should be outraged that women in the NT are effectively being
> > told that they can no longer have homebirths and that highly skilled
> > midwives are being told to stop supporting them. Who will be held
> > accountable if complications occur during an unassisted homebirth?
> > Regardless of our personal beliefs, the evidence continues to support
> > homebirth as a safe option for healthy pregnant women and we should all
be
> > outraged that women are being denied this.
> >
> > What about the closure of smaller maternity units and a case-load
program,
> > the shift of a birth centre that sees care now fragmented over different
> > unsuitable locations (in Victoria)? What are all midwives doing about
it?
> We
> > would have a much greater voice if we all stood together.
> >
> > My rant over...
> >
> > Andrea Bilcliff
> >
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Tania Smallwood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >
> > ...what is relevant is that right now there are lots of us in
> > > this great country of ours, educated in varying ways, to be with women
> as
> > > midwives.  We need to embrace that, not allow it to tear us apart...
> >
> > ... There is so much at stake for women and midwives at the moment in
our
> > > current environment of political dictatorship and fear of litigation.
> > > Sadly, this seems to interpret into the midwifery profession falling
> apart
> > > at the seams, with little factions forming, all with their own idea of
> > > what
> > > midwifery truly is.  I find it sad that I can truly appreciate the
skill
> > > and
> > > worth of the midwife who works tirelessly in the NICU, (and I am
acutely
> > > aware that I don't posess some of those necessary skills for that
area),
> > > supporting families and babies through a tenuous time, but that I
don't
> > > receive the same respect back, as I work using my own set of skills,
> > > supporting women to birth safely at home. We are all skilled, in many
> > > different ways.  Our diversity and differing areas of skill and
interest
> > > should be what unites us, not what forces us apart.  And the ways in
> which
> > > we are educated to work in our area of calling should also be that of
> > > great
> > > interest, information sharing, and a means of learning from each
other,
> > > not
> > > a wedge to drive our profession even further away from unity.
> >
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or un

Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students

[Liz Newnham]

Jo, I can hear your frustration. I think though, many midwives may be
expending their energy to change things at their actual place of work rather
than in a wider political forum. It's frustrating for many at the moment -
the system is so bloody slow to change - and now we have another liberal
government! See you at the next MC meeting?
love, Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "Dean & Jo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 4:05 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students


> Kirsten said it was a joint fight with women and midwives.
>
> I agree totally but  something that i have noticed n the last few year of
> being a very active consumer fighting for midwifery issues is the lack of
> mutual support.  I was asked at last minuite to attend a public forum
> discussing childhood issues from before birth to 8 year old.  I went to
> discus how impotant access to midwifery led care can be for a family and
> when i asked if any midwives were going the reply was something like No we
> cant be seen pushing our own barrow (my wording).  It annoyed me as the
> commitment to attend this meeting meant missing out on my children again
for
> another night that week, petrol money and the fact that even after a day
of
> work I was not getting home until after 11pm...
>
> Funnily enough the meeting was 90% full of either teachers or child care
> workers all highlighting issues they ad their clients face in their field.
> Why is it okay for them to be there but not for a midwife?  This is not
> really an isolated incident.
> I am aware of the power of the consumer but:
> Just remember next time that we need supprt and some consideration
> also...consumers are not the union for midwifery issues!
> my vent lol
> Jo
> - Original Message -
> From: "Callum & Kirsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 12:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students
>
>
> > So true Louise,
> > In NZ there is a saying...woman need midwives need woman
> >
> > It is usually shown with the words forming a circle...
> >
> > Unfortunately there are still so many woman out there who don't know
what
> > a midwife could offer...It is really sad. I know our branch of ACMI are
> > looking at taking it back to ground level and getting out there and
> > educating woman on what a midwife is and what we offer...
> >
> > Without the woman of NZ being so political and vocal, midwives wouldn't
be
> > where they are now in NZ. It was a joint fight between midwives and
woman,
> > and it paid off.
> >
> > How do we get that here? Firstly i guess we need to unite midwives.
> >
> > Personally i don't give a toss where we train, whether it's RN or direct
> > entry. As far as i'm concerned how you train does not make the midwife.
As
> > a Bmid student i get alot of critisicm about not being an RN, and some
> > hospitals have asked when i would be doing my RN's as until then i am
> > unemployable to them!
> >
> > The amazing midwives who i am learning from up here in the NT, and the
> > same ones who are being devistated by the legislation up here are RN
> > trained midwives and i couldn't ask for better mentors!
> >
> > But back to the public support, what do we do to unite as midwives and
> > then to unite as woman and midwives???
> >
> > Kirsten
> > Darwin
> >
> > ~~~start life with a midwife~~~
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Geoff & Louise Wightman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 12:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students
> >
> >
> >> My biggest concern is that the postnatal area seems to be fair game as
an
> >> area for RN's to move into as it would seem the value of a midwife in
the
> >> eyes of management only extends to birth suite. Should we not ask the
> >> general public to consider this issue? Who would they like to give them
> >> the best care a midwife or an RN that has had a quick orientation to
the
> >> postanatal area? Without public support, midwives will be fighting a
> >> losing battle as economics takes over.
> >> In dispair Louise
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Sadie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 11:51 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Uniting midwives & midwifery students
> >>
> >>
> >>>I thought RN's couldn't work on labour ward because of insurance?
> >>> At KEMH even agency midwives (excluding Nurse West) cannot work on
> >>> labour
> >>> ward because the insurance does not cover them.
> >>>
> >>> Sadie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >>> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> >> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >>
> >> __ NOD32 1.889

Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998

[Liz Newnham]

How true,
enjoy it,
love, Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "Jen Semple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 10, 2004 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re:
uterine rupture 1998


> Yes, Liz, I completely agree.  Thrilled to hear that
> you felt the passion about birth w/o intervention @
> uni as well.
>
> I guess what I was trying to get to more than anything
> else, is just that we have the luxury of time w/ the
> BMid.
>
> Jen
>
>  --- Liz Newnham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Jen,
> > I am just concerned that this becomes another 'them
> > and us' amongst
> > midwives. I am an RN trained midwife, though would
> > have done three year B
> > mid if it had been available. I am also a home birth
> > mother and I feel there
> > is an expectation that RN trained midwives somehow
> > do not carry the same
> > philosophies of normal birth. The university I
> > trained at for my mid was
> > passionately non-interventionist, and I have to say
> > the theory-practice gap
> > was huge for us too, all interventionist practice
> > being experienced on
> > placement.
> >
> > As Trish, quoting Nicky, so eloquently said, "a
> > midwife is a midwife is a
> > midwife". All of the amazing independent midwives
> > that I have met, worked
> > with, workshopped with were mostly all trained in
> > Australia in the last 30
> > or so years. Which means they were nurses first. The
> > most vocal of our
> > university lecturers who have pushed for B Mid fall
> > into the same category.
> >
> > I can see what you are saying Jen, and yes, I would
> > have preferred to have
> > had the midwifery training that you have had, but I
> > don't find it any more
> > difficult, I shouldn't think, to be comfortable with
> > non-interventionist,
> > natural birth. It is a deep part of my being, and I
> > am just as passionate
> > about it as those lucky enough to have done a three
> > year B-Mid degree. I
> > think we need to be wary about the systemic
> > horizontal violence that occurs
> > in midwifery, as in other oppressed groups (i.e. mid
> > has been historically
> > oppressed in this country both by the medical and
> > the nursing professions),
> > and we need to work together to change the system of
> > maternity care in this
> > country no matter where of how we trained, if we are
> > passionate about this.
> > That is precisely why the three year B mid is so
> > vital, and political,
> > because it forms part of an historical change for
> > the autonomy of midwifery.
> >
> > Good luck with finishing your course,
> > Liz.
>
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
> http://au.movies.yahoo.com
> --
> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998

[Liz Newnham]

Hi Jen,
I am just concerned that this becomes another 'them and us' amongst
midwives. I am an RN trained midwife, though would have done three year B
mid if it had been available. I am also a home birth mother and I feel there
is an expectation that RN trained midwives somehow do not carry the same
philosophies of normal birth. The university I trained at for my mid was
passionately non-interventionist, and I have to say the theory-practice gap
was huge for us too, all interventionist practice being experienced on
placement.

As Trish, quoting Nicky, so eloquently said, "a midwife is a midwife is a
midwife". All of the amazing independent midwives that I have met, worked
with, workshopped with were mostly all trained in Australia in the last 30
or so years. Which means they were nurses first. The most vocal of our
university lecturers who have pushed for B Mid fall into the same category.

I can see what you are saying Jen, and yes, I would have preferred to have
had the midwifery training that you have had, but I don't find it any more
difficult, I shouldn't think, to be comfortable with non-interventionist,
natural birth. It is a deep part of my being, and I am just as passionate
about it as those lucky enough to have done a three year B-Mid degree. I
think we need to be wary about the systemic horizontal violence that occurs
in midwifery, as in other oppressed groups (i.e. mid has been historically
oppressed in this country both by the medical and the nursing professions),
and we need to work together to change the system of maternity care in this
country no matter where of how we trained, if we are passionate about this.
That is precisely why the three year B mid is so vital, and political,
because it forms part of an historical change for the autonomy of midwifery.

Good luck with finishing your course,
Liz.
- Original Message -
From: "Jen Semple" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, October 09, 2004 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re:
uterine rupture 1998


> Hi Liz,
>
> I was responding to someone else's posts that they had
> spoken to mid students who felt that they were not
> being taught about intervention-free birth.  I was
> saying that I have been taught & do feel confident (as
> a beginning practitioner!) with intervention-free
> birth after 3 years at uni & the requirement to be the
> primary accoucher for 40 non-instrumental births.
> Since grad dip midwives have 12 months @ uni are are
> required to primary accoucher 20 births, I wonder if
> it is more difficult to feel confident w/
> intervention-free birth w/ this training.
>
> I'm not at all saying good or bad, them or us. Just
> wondering out loud.  I definitely don't think that I'd
> feel as confident after only 12 months, but maybe if I
> had done general nursing first I would.
>
> Hope that makes sense.
>
> Jen
> 3rd year BMid, Melbourne
>
>  --- Liz Newnham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi Jen,
> > I was curious to ask what you meant by "I wonder if
> > it is more difficult for them". Wonder if what is
> > more difficult?
> > Liz
> >   - Original Message -
> >   From: Jen Semple
> >   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >   Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:00 AM
> >   Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and
> > other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998
> >
> >
> >   As a current Bachelor of Midwifery (aka direct
> > entry)student, I can tell you a little bit about my
> > course.
> >
> >   I think everybody here agrees that there is no
> > such thing as the perfect woman, the perfect
> > midwife, or the perfect midwifery course.  That
> > said, I can promise you all that we have learnt
> > about working in partnersip with women, what is
> > normal birth, and how the role of the midwife
> > changes from autonomous practitioner to "member of
> > the team" once labour is augmented.
> >
> >   One of the things that we struggle with most is
> > the "theory-practice gap"... the evidence & what we
> > are being taught at uni & then the lack of
> > opportunity to practice in that way at present (ie
> > we get taught about hands off or hands poised & most
> > of us have yet to be supervised by a midwife with a
> > birthing woman who doesn't firmly enourage us to
> > keep a hand on the head &/or peri).  Also
> > caseload... to meet the ACMI standard, we have all
> > completed (or are about to complete) 30 follow
> > throughs.  For many of us, that would be our
> > preferred model of practice next year & at present,
> >

Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998

[Liz Newnham]

Hi Jen,
I was curious to ask what you meant by "I wonder if 
it is more difficult for them". Wonder if what is more difficult?
Liz

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jen 
  Semple 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:00 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Students, 
  training and other things was Re: uterine rupture 1998
  
  As a current Bachelor of Midwifery (aka direct entry)student, I can tell 
  you a little bit about my course.
   
  I think everybody here agrees that there is no such thing as the perfect 
  woman, the perfect midwife, or the perfect midwifery course.  That said, 
  I can promise you all that we have learnt about working in partnersip with 
  women, what is normal birth, and how the role of the midwife changes from 
  autonomous practitioner to "member of the team" once labour is 
augmented.
   
  One of the things that we struggle with most is the "theory-practice 
  gap"... the evidence & what we are being taught at uni & then the lack 
  of opportunity to practice in that way at present (ie we get taught about 
  hands off or hands poised & most of us have yet to be supervised by a 
  midwife with a birthing woman who doesn't firmly enourage us to keep a hand on 
  the head &/or peri).  Also caseload... to meet the ACMI standard, we 
  have all completed (or are about to complete) 30 follow throughs.  For 
  many of us, that would be our preferred model of practice next year & at 
  present, there is not one hospital in metropolitan Melbourne where we could 
  pratice in that model.
   
  I'm not saying that all is perfect at my uni (& can't speak for all 
  unis), but I am certain that my lecturers are knowledgable of what is normal 
  & passionate how to keep things that way.
   
  The ACMI requirement is that we are the primary accouchuer (aka catching 
  or delivering the baby) for 40 non-instrumental births.  This 
  is a lot of births!  Many are struggling to attain this figure 
  & many have done so in less than ideal circumstances.  It 
  is argued that this number should be reduced or that students should be able 
  to "count" births that became instrumental, but the student remained the 
  woman's midwife.
   
  While the midwife's role in an instrumental birth, augmented labour, 
  etc is just as important as in a "normal" labour or birth, it is very 
  different.   The midwife is no longer the autunomous practitioner 
  & the student is no longer gaining experience with "normalcy".
   
  Abby, I think the high standards that ACMI has set for us help ensure 
  that we do know normal.  Granted, this is still the hospital setting, but 
  until community midwifery is more widely available to women & midwives, 
  the reality is that the majority of student midwives cannot gain experience in 
  this setting.
   
  I cannot speak for the education of Graduate Diploma midwives (who are 
  already nurses)... as their midwifery program is only 12 months (& 
  their requirement is 20 births), I wonder if it is more difficult for 
  them?
   
  Anyway, I hope my current perspective as a student is helpful.
   
  Jen
  3rd year BMid, Melbourne
  
  
  Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

[ozmidwifery] anaemia article

[Liz Newnham]

Thanks Marilyn!
Any way I can pay you for the postage 
etc?
Not sure why this has turned italic - I didn't 
tell it to.
Thanks again
love,Liz.
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] casload practice

[Liz Newnham]

Lynne, I wish I was closer. I am so passionate 
about caseload. Relocating from SA would be huge, though closer than going to NZ 
or UK, which I was contemplating before other unforseen life events. Needs 
thinking about!
But thanks for giving us all the offer. Like 
someone else said, I want one here!
Love, Liz. 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Lynne Staff 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:02 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] casload 
  practice
  
  Come on women!
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Andrea Quanchi 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 4:12 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] casload 
practice
Me too, perhaps On Thursday, September 16, 2004, at 02:45 
PM, Trish David wrote:
I wish!Lynne Staff wrote:Hello All,Are there any 
  midwives out there interested in working in a caseload practice in a 
  private hospital setting? (Sunshine Coast QLD)Looking forward to hearing 
  from 
youLynne

Re: [ozmidwifery] measuring Hb during pregnancy

[Liz Newnham]

Yes Please Marilyn,
55 Aldinga Rd
Willunga
SA 5172
Thank you,
Liz.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marilyn 
  Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 5:04 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] measuring Hb 
  during pregnancy
  
  Exactly Andrea. There is an article in the 
  Journal of Nurse-Midwifery (now the Journal of Midwifery and Women's 
  Health)  Volume 39, No.2 (Supplement), March/April 1994, pp.133 - 
  148  " Nurse-Midwifery Management of iron-deficiency anaemia during 
  pregnancy"  by Janet L.Engstrom, CNM, Ph.D and Claudia P. Sittler, 
  CNM, MS which discusses these issues and is excellent reading. It gives you 
  an  algorithm for a differential diagnosis and pathophysiology of the 
  various anemias and the beneficial and normal haemodilution of the healthy 
  second trimester (no pathophysiology here). I have a photocopy of this article 
  and could send copies by snail mail to anyone who wants, though I am sure you 
  can find this journal in  some Uni library.
   
  marilyn
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Andrea Quanchi 
To: ozmidwifery 
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:30 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] measuring Hb 
during pregnancy
All this talk about haemaglobin reminded me about something I 
read recently and thought would make a good discussion.I have just 
finished reading Michel O'Dent's book 'The Casarean' ( available from Birth 
International) which was very interesting reading. In it he discusses 
measuring Hb during pregnancy and I will type the relevent section from 
pages 115-116 He states that'... 
there is a widespread belief that this test can effectively detect anaemia 
and iron deficiency. In fact this test cannot diagnose iron deficiency 
because the blood volume of pregnant women is supposed to increase 
dramatically, so the haemoglobin concentration indicates first the degree of 
blood dilution, an effect of placental activity. A large british study, 
involving more than 150,000 pregnancies found the highest average birth 
weight was in the group of women who had a haemaglobin concentration between 
8.5 and 9.5. Furthermore when the haemaglobin concentration fails to fall 
below 10.5 there is an increased risk of low birth weight, pre term birth 
and pre-eclampsia. The regrettable consequence of routine evaluation of 
haemoglobin is that all over the world, millions of pregnant women are 
wrongly told that they are anaemic and are given iron supplements. there is 
a tendency both to overlook the side effects of iron (constipation, 
diarhhoea, heartburn etc) and to forget that iron inhibits the absorption of 
such an important growth factor as zinc. Furthermore, iron is an oxidative 
substance that can exacerbate the production of free radicals and might even 
increase the risk of pre-eclampsia. 'of course he gives 
referencesWell I knew the first bit about blood dilution but was not 
aware of the study that showed the higher birth weight amongst the women 
with lower Hb or the tendancy to pre eclampsia to women with higher Hb. 
Makes sense though that if there is higher blood pressure then placental 
function/flow will be decreased and lead to lower foetal growth. Makes the 
whole thing a bit of a joke though doesnt it as Hb is the one thing I 
thought was worth knowing of the battery of tests that women are subjected 
to. Maybe we should be celebrating when there Hb comes back lower that 10.5 
and 'worrying' when it doesn't. Cant you see it now new indication for 
keeping an eye on BP "Hb above 10.5'. Food for thought though. As it will 
make any though of supplements virtually obsolete.Andrea 
  Quanchi

Re: [ozmidwifery] Re:

[Liz Newnham]

I had the luck to read this book in my first pregnancy over 10 years ago. As
a result I spent the weeks leading up to the birth in excitement and awe (no
fear whatsoever). I think it's a fantastic book, and I still read it now and
then as a midwife, just to keep me grounded in the spirit of midwifery.
Liz
- Original Message -
From: "Callum & Kirsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:46 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Re:


> I loved the book, some of the language is funny...but i loved the way they
> birthed.
>
> Kirsten
>
> ~~~start life with a midwife~~~
> - Original Message -
> From: "Fiona Rumble" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "ozmidwifery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:04 PM
>
>
> > Hi all, I have just come across the book Spiritual Midwifery at the op
> > shop. What do others think of it, if you know the book by Ina May
Gaskin?
> > Thanks Fiona
> >
> > --
> > This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> > Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
> >
> > __ NOD32 1.867 (20040909) Information __
> >
> > This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> > http://www.nod32.com
> >
> >
>
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> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>

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Re: [ozmidwifery] US birth and Australian History

[Liz Newnham]

Some old but interesting 
references:
'Witches, midwives and 
nurses: a history of women healers' Barbara Eirenreich and Deirdre English, 
1973, The Feminist Press, New York.
'Overview of history of 
midwifery' , L. Barclay, Australian College of midwives Journal, 1990, vol 2, no 
4 p.15-20.
'Medical Dominance: the 
division of labour in Australian health care, 1989, Allen and Unwin, NSW. See 
ch. 5 by E. Willis 'The subordination of midwifery.'
Hope this 
helps.
Liz Newnham.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Kylie Carberry 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 10:57 
AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] US birth and 
  Australian History
  
  
  Thanks for filling me in on this and for the sources of 
  info.
  cheers
  Kylie
  
  Play Love Hunt to win a 
  $9000 holiday and find love! -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
  Graphics. Visit to subscribe or 
unsubscribe.

Re: [ozmidwifery] Flinders Medical Centre

[Liz Newnham]

Hi Wendy, the website that 
Megan gave you should be helpful. I've worked at Flinders so if you have any 
specific questions, you can email me off-list at [EMAIL PROTECTED].
Cheers, Liz.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Wendy Taberer 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 5:19 AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Flinders Medical 
  Centre
  
  
  Hi, I’m looking for information on 
  the Flinders Medical Centre, Adelaide.  I have a c.v. on it’s way for 
  consideration.  Live in England at present with partner and 
  two young children 12 and 9.  Working in a low risk birthing centre run 
  by about 14 midwives and looking to migrate to Australia.  Would love to hear 
  more about the hospital and the surrounding 
areas.
   
  Thanks
  Wendy 
  Taberer
   

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms

[Liz Newnham]

I agree Denise, it will 
change, eventually...

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Denise Hynd 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 2:28 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary 
  forms
  
  Dear Liz 
  Once the elections are out of the way (one in WA 
  also coming up) I also am thinking of a year or 2 in either NZ or the UK to 
  keep  my skills and energy up!!
   
  I did my mid there many moons ago and have a 
  friend marrying there next year.
   
  Meanwhile I cannot emotionally or morally 
  support our medicalised birthing environment and I wish  that the 
  majority of Australian midwives would acknowledge that whilst they 
  support it and also do not work to change it, it will continue for those 
  reasons not because it can not be changed !!
   
  I feel  positve that change will increase 
  and occur not only becuase of the efforts of Maternity Coalition but 
  finally by efforts being made by Barb Vernon and others at the ACMI who are 
  working for real change and inspire others to act in concert with them and 
  MC.
   
  NZ shows us that in concert political action by 
  women and midwives can effect real change..
   
  Denise Hynd
   
  "Never believe that a few caring people can't change the world.  
  For, indeed, they are the only ones who ever have."  Margaret 
  Mead
  
- Original Message - 
    From: 
Liz 
Newnham 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 7:09 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Thanks Tania, Lois and 
Marilyn,
it all helps. Andrea, I 
would love to come to Sydney for Maggie's workshop (I've heard her talk at 
two futurebirth conferences, and she's wonderful). I just feel that I would 
like someone around for a while while I'm starting out. It's not only that 
I've been trained in the system, it's also because of my relative 
inexperience. That's why I'm thinking that a year in a caseload 
practice (not many in my area - none in fact) in NZ or UK wpuld give me the 
grounding I need.
Denise, I totally 
sympathise. I too am working on NMAP and MC stuff, and really don't 
know what to do next. Oh for a (big) fairy godmother.
blessings to you 
all,
Liz 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marilyn Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:30 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  summary forms
  
  Hi Tania:
   
  I don't think there is any research that 
  indicates an increased risk of the cervix closing during a physiological 
  third stage or expectant management of third stage. The risk of the cervix 
  closing before the birth of the placenta is associated with active 
  management of third stage that is it (the risk) increases after the 
  oxytocic has been administered, hence the often or 
  apparently aggressive delivery of the placenta in active management. 
  There is increased risk of PPH with expectant mangement of third stage 
  (note not true physiological management) as evidenced in the trials on the 
  Cochrane data base. I have read discussions that argue that this 
  increased  risk of PPH may be due to provider/care giver error 
  in how they manage expectant management ie how aggressive are they with 
  placental delivery are they prepared to watvh and wait as jan has 
  indicated?
   
  marilyn
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Tania 
& Laurie 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:02 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Liz
As a mid student, I have also wondered 
about the cervix closing before the placenta is birthed. With the birth 
of my third child (at home) we opted for a physiological third stage and 
have since done some research on the timing of cord clamping. It seems 
there is a lot of supportive literature for delayed cord clamping with 
one of the few factors against it being the fear of the cervix closing 
before birth of the placenta.
 
Tania
        
  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Liz 
  Newnham 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 
  6:59 PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  summary forms
  
  Hi 
  Jan,
  thanks so much 
  for your post. I too would love to work outside the hospital system 
  however being a recent graduate and having no-one to "apprentice" me, 
  I lack the confidence to do so. I feel my only option is to w

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms

[Liz Newnham]

Thanks Tania, Lois and 
Marilyn,
it all helps. Andrea, I 
would love to come to Sydney for Maggie's workshop (I've heard her talk at two 
futurebirth conferences, and she's wonderful). I just feel that I would like 
someone around for a while while I'm starting out. It's not only that I've been 
trained in the system, it's also because of my relative 
inexperience. That's why I'm thinking that a year in a caseload practice 
(not many in my area - none in fact) in NZ or UK wpuld give me the grounding I 
need.
Denise, I totally 
sympathise. I too am working on NMAP and MC stuff, and really don't know 
what to do next. Oh for a (big) fairy godmother.
blessings to you 
all,
Liz 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Marilyn 
  Kleidon 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 5:30 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary 
  forms
  
  Hi Tania:
   
  I don't think there is any research that 
  indicates an increased risk of the cervix closing during a physiological third 
  stage or expectant management of third stage. The risk of the cervix closing 
  before the birth of the placenta is associated with active management of third 
  stage that is it (the risk) increases after the oxytocic has been 
  administered, hence the often or apparently aggressive delivery of the 
  placenta in active management. There is increased risk of PPH with expectant 
  mangement of third stage (note not true physiological management) as evidenced 
  in the trials on the Cochrane data base. I have read discussions that argue 
  that this increased  risk of PPH may be due to provider/care giver 
  error in how they manage expectant management ie how aggressive are they with 
  placental delivery are they prepared to watvh and wait as jan has 
  indicated?
   
  marilyn
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Tania 
& Laurie 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 5:02 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms

Liz
As a mid student, I have also wondered about 
the cervix closing before the placenta is birthed. With the birth of my 
third child (at home) we opted for a physiological third stage and have 
since done some research on the timing of cord clamping. It seems there is a 
lot of supportive literature for delayed cord clamping with one of the few 
factors against it being the fear of the cervix closing before birth of the 
placenta.
 
Tania
    
  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Liz 
  Newnham 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 6:59 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
  summary forms
  
  Hi Jan,
  thanks so much for 
  your post. I too would love to work outside the hospital system however 
  being a recent graduate and having no-one to "apprentice" me, I lack the 
  confidence to do so. I feel my only option is to work overseas for a while 
  (an expensive option with 3 children and partner in tow). In the meantime 
  I embrace the wise-woman knowledge I encounter on this list. I have 
  another question too. The docs where I work have the fear that the cervix 
  will close before the placenta can birth. I think this is their reasoning 
  for manual removals if they are not out in the specified time frame. Is 
  this because of the syntocinon given for medically managed third stage, or 
  is this a realistic possibility also for physiological third stage? Once 
  again, forgive my ignorance.
  blessings,Liz.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Jan 
Robinson 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:42 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth 
summary forms
Hi LizI'm lucky that I work outside the hospital 
system so the guidelines used are safety and the mother's wishes. While 
ever there is no bleeding I leave well enough alone. It is not good to 
meddle when conducting a physiologic third stage. Although emergency 
drugs are in the family fridge they are not used unless excessive 
bleeding necessitates it.In this particular case the woman had 
been vomiting towards the end of a very long first labour so she was 
exhausted after giving birth. After warm herbal tea for fluid 
replacement (and some home-made chocolate brownie to restore her blood 
sugar levels) she put her newborn son to the breast but after that she 
just wanted to close her eyes and sleep. As it was well past 
midnight, that was what I wanted as well, I tucked my client into 
her bed where she promptly fell asleep. I slept (very lightly) on the 
floor beside her. When she awoke in

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms

[Liz Newnham]

Hi Jan,
thanks so much for your 
post. I too would love to work outside the hospital system however being a 
recent graduate and having no-one to "apprentice" me, I lack the confidence to 
do so. I feel my only option is to work overseas for a while (an expensive 
option with 3 children and partner in tow). In the meantime I embrace the 
wise-woman knowledge I encounter on this list. I have another question too. The 
docs where I work have the fear that the cervix will close before the placenta 
can birth. I think this is their reasoning for manual removals if they are not 
out in the specified time frame. Is this because of the syntocinon given for 
medically managed third stage, or is this a realistic possibility also for 
physiological third stage? Once again, forgive my ignorance.
blessings,Liz.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan 
  Robinson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 6:42 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary 
  forms
  Hi LizI'm lucky that I work outside the hospital system so 
  the guidelines used are safety and the mother's wishes. While ever there is no 
  bleeding I leave well enough alone. It is not good to meddle when conducting a 
  physiologic third stage. Although emergency drugs are in the family fridge 
  they are not used unless excessive bleeding necessitates it.In this 
  particular case the woman had been vomiting towards the end of a very long 
  first labour so she was exhausted after giving birth. After warm herbal tea 
  for fluid replacement (and some home-made chocolate brownie to restore her 
  blood sugar levels) she put her newborn son to the breast but after that she 
  just wanted to close her eyes and sleep. As it was well past midnight, 
  that was what I wanted as well, I tucked my client into her bed where she 
  promptly fell asleep. I slept (very lightly) on the floor beside her. When she 
  awoke in the early hours of the morning she emptied her bladder. I thought the 
  placenta would come away then, but it didn't, so as the baby was still asleep, 
  tucked in with his father, we had a cup of tea and went for a walk. It was 
  some walk, along the northern end of Bondi Beach, climbed up Ben Buckler and 
  walked another two blocks over the top of the hill. She was ready to come home 
  then as she felt she wanted to empty her bowels. So we headed home and sat on 
  the toilet again and with a mighty push the placenta was expelled.On 
  reflection, there was no obvious oedema in the lower birth canal, so I assumed 
  this was simply a case of a very fit woman, with very strong abdominal and 
  pelvic floor muscles that trapped the placenta temporarily. We still look 
  back on this experience and have a laugh at the memory of the neighbours (also 
  super-fit early morning walkers) out on Bondi Beach congratulating my client 
  on having the baby - not knowing that his placenta was still in situ as we 
  were talking!I always get satisfaction when completing the Perinatal 
  Data forms for the Dept of Health.Although there are not a great number of 
  homebirths recorded, the long third stages that often occur at home must 
  affect the state's records of the average time 
  taken.CheersJanJan 
  Robinson Independent Midwife PractitionerNational Coordinator Australian 
  Society of Independent Midwives8 Robin Crescent South Hurstville NSW 2221 
  Phone/Fax: 02 9546 4350e-mail address: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  website: www.midwiferyeducation.com.auOn 
  10/07/2004, at 8:30 PM, Liz Newnham wrote:
  Dear 
Jan,what 
did you do in the situation about the placenta? Where I work at present the 
doctors get twitchy if a placenta hasn't birthed within an hour, let alone 
eight (mind you - labour ward - tertiary hospital, policy of 
CCT). Forgive my ignorance.Liz.- 
Original Message -From: 
Jan Robinson To: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent:Friday, 
July 09, 2004 6:59 AMSubject:Re: 
[ozmidwifery] Birth summary formsHi 
SueNot sure what birth summary forms are, but my Birth Register is 
simply an excel spreadsheet with all the details .. name address age etc. 
all the demographics. then time membranes ruptured (if less than an hour 
before birth ... etc..) number of vaginal examinations (i love entering 
zeros!) , length of each stage position for each stage ... time of birth , 
date of birth lots of stuff plus comments for anything interesting like 
placentas in situ for eight hours , what we did about it , what type of 
sutures were used, etc. The reason for it all being on a spreadsheet is so 
that I can statistically analyse it to get the average age of my clients, 
average duration of labour, first stage etc. It might be handy one day. I 
would have to get m y daughter to help me with the analysis as I am not 
brilliant using Excel, ... one of my clients set it up for me many years ago 
... It&#x

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary forms

[Liz Newnham]

Dear Jan,
what did you do in the 
situation about the placenta? Where I work at present the doctors get twitchy if 
a placenta hasn't birthed within an hour, let alone eight (mind you - labour 
ward - tertiary hospital, policy of CCT). Forgive my 
ignorance.
Liz.

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jan 
  Robinson 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Friday, July 09, 2004 6:59 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth summary 
  forms
  Hi SueNot sure what birth summary forms are, but my Birth 
  Register is simply an excel spreadsheet with all the details .. name address 
  age etc. all the demographics. then time membranes ruptured (if less than an 
  hour before birth ... etc..) number of vaginal examinations (i love entering 
  zeros!) , length of each stage position for each stage ... time of birth , 
  date of birth lots of stuff plus comments for anything interesting like 
  placentas in situ for eight hours , what we did about it , what type of 
  sutures were used, etc. The reason for it all being on a spreadsheet is so 
  that I can statistically analyse it to get the average age of my clients, 
  average duration of labour, first stage etc. It might be handy one day. I 
  would have to get m y daughter to help me with the analysis as I am not 
  brilliant using Excel, ... one of my clients set it up for me many years ago 
  ... It's easy enough to do if you understand Excel. I think Robyn THompson 
  sets hers up on some similiar type of spreadsheet.. she was going to market it 
  at one stage. Hilda Bastian also had a brilliant one set up to go underd the 
  HBA banner. It was the best idea I had ever seen as it also had the facillity 
  for anylisising social data as well. She was going to get hers to a marketable 
  stage too but then the homebirth movement seemed to crumble temporarily and it 
  has been lost to us. It would be a great project for HBA to tackle, but we 
  could also get the NSWPD people to provide us with a template for their data 
  sheet with add ons. The USA midwives have one that Maralyn Kleidon would know 
  about but she is in the states at the moment. Perhaps we could put pressure on 
  the College to produce a workable one for all homebirth midwives that could be 
  used to collect research data for their IPM Accreditation program that they 
  are getting set up. Lots of possibilitiesDid you get the papers I sent 
  you? We need to get the new forms from Centre Link now.Haven't got mine 
  yet, they tell me they don't have anymore as they had a printing mishap so I 
  will have to go up to my local office to get then.Hope you and Arthur 
  are both well. Give my love to Penny.JanJan 
  Robinson Independent Midwife PractitionerNational Coordinator Australian 
  Society of Independent Midwives8 Robin Crescent South Hurstville NSW 2221 
  Phone/Fax: 02 9546 4350e-mail address: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  website: www.midwiferyeducation.com.auOn 
  07/07/2004, at 5:12 PM, Sue Cookson wrote:
  Hi all,Can anyone email me copies of their birth summary 
forms please?Am looking to rewrite my own, but would love some of your 
inspiations and insights.Many thanks,Sue and Penny--This 
mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit 
 to subscribe or 
  unsubscribe.

[ozmidwifery] nsw

[Liz Newnham]

Hi, Liz here again wondering if any of you on the 
list work or know of the work situation for midwives in north NSW, and if there 
are any independently practicing midwives up there?
Cheers,
Liz.

Re: [ozmidwifery] bumper stickers

[Liz Newnham]

Jen, what a great idea. I had a "start life with a 
midwife" sticker on my old car, and I miss it! It is a subtle 
consciousness-raising message. However, lots of the others you and others have 
mentioned are good too. Maybe print a few different messages?
Liz

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jen 
  Semple 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:28 
PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] bumper 
  stickers
  
  Seeking in-put from MC branches around Oz, consumer organisations, ASIM, 
  etc...
   
  ACMI is looking at printing bumper stickers & there's interest from 
  Midwives in Private Practice (MIPP in Victoria) & possibly MC (Vic) going 
  in together to do a massive print to reduce costs, have heaps of the same 
  stickers floating around on cars all around Oz, etc.
  Janine Clark (ACMI national student rep) & I are looking at 
  organising this... if anyone has any suggestions please let us 
  know!One question to think about/dicuss is if all of these 
  organisations (ACMI, MC, MIPP, ASIM, etc) are keen to get stickers 
  together, each sticker is not going to be able to have each organisation's 
  name on it.  So I think each organisation needs to discuss why they want 
  the stickers... to promote the organisation or to promote midwifery/birth 
  reform (or other goal I haven't thought of!).
   
  If the goal is to promote midwifery/birth reform, maybe they could all 
  have the MC website on them since that's the umbrella organisation.  If 
  the goal is to promote the specific organisation, then I'm not really sure how 
  this could be done.Does anyone have any 
  thoughts/feelings/ideas?I've collated a list of suggested slogans 
  below, but before slogans are debated, it's probably more important to discuss 
  goals & priorities.Jen"Push for birth 
  reform""I want 1-to-1 midwifery care""Midwives help people 
  out""Women in the know know a midwife" The NZ College of 
  Midwives sell 3 stickers for around $1 each:- Start life with a 
  midwife- I chose carefully, I chose a midwife- I'm a 
  midwifeMidwives Care! -Naturally!-PROUD TO BE A 
  MIDWIFESAY HELLO TO A MIDWIFE"midwives do it for 
  life""midwives do it .. naturally"'human milk for hu! man 
  babies'"the goddess or the birth machine - your choice"peace 
  on earth begins at birthMidwives: saving the earth, one baby at at 
  time 
  
  
  Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.

[ozmidwifery] hello there

[Liz Newnham]

Hi everyone,
I'm back on the list after signing off for almost a 
year while I threw myself into my graduate mid program, which is now over. 
So good be back on the list and am enjoying reading all the interesting 
ideas and insights. I'm also thinking of moving interstate to NSW (am in SA), 
with my family and a friend who has been living in the north of NSW, near 
the border ranges, and who is doing a good job of convincing me to move back 
with her. I am wondering if anyone can tell me what sort of midwifery employment 
there is up that way, which places are better than others, etc. If there are any 
independent midwives in that area who would be willing to take on a 
apprentice, I would be extremely interested also. You can email me off-list at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] if you 
like.
thanks to you all,
Liz Newnham.