Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S

[Rhonda]

  Don't know about Qld but I heard today that they are going to 
  increase private health insurance because claims for damages are going to 
  be regulated - there has to be 5% permanent physical damage or 10% mental 
  damage for a claim to be made.
  Can't imagine how this is going to affect childbirth.
   
  As a body piercer who has just been through the ringer with a case 
  that was a big fraud and the guy won and got a lot (sending us broke) 
   even though we did nothing - could not see how we could loose but 
  hey - biased judge and bad barristor and what do you get!  A really 
  dodgy result where every piece of evidence that contradicted him was 
  brushed over or just not mentioned.   Oh - they forgot thast bit 
  coz it didn't fit!  LOL 
   This new law will protect me from claims but - what about 
  ob's?
  But, the legal system and civil cases are not closely linked - law 
  does not realy come into civil matters - you don't need proof just need to 
  have a better sob story.
   
  Hmm - once again disolutioned by our 'wonderful' society.
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, December 
  09, 2003 12:37:48
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  C/S
   
  Without being able to say too much we may 
  have a law suit about to happen in Qld by a couple who were insensed to 
  find they had been coerced into a C/S to find there was nothing wrong with 
  their baby. Not only that, the info I have says the father has 
  evidence that the CTG trace was not as bad as it was made out to 
  be and that the partogram which he saw initially was later 
  changed. 
   
  I think they may have bitten off more than 
  they can chew. The husband is outraged and is intending to take legal 
  action.
   
  Hopefully we will hear more 
soon.
  Dierdre B.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes

[Rhonda]

  Well, having my own shop I used to sit/or stand and serve customers 
  while feeding - sometimes getting them to "help themselves" to the 
  jewellery that they wanted.  Then fumbling change one handed to them 
  or I would just serve them and answer questions etc  -  I never 
  once had anybody complain or even look twice.  I guess as our shop is 
  really relaxed and being body piercing - the only question about feeding 
  in the shop that I ever got was - "Do you have your nipples 
pierced?"
   
  I never mastered doing a piercing while breast feeding though.  
  Just had to put him down for that one. Generally had so many happy 
  customers and even passers by who wanted to give him a cuddle that it was 
  never a problem though.
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, December 
  08, 2003 23:36:15
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding attitudes
   I used to breastfeed mine (one-handed) while pushing a 
  supermarket trolleyaround doing the weekly shop! I even managed to 
  continue at the check-out bypassing up one item at a time from the 
  trolley to the conveyor belt. Notconventional or restful but when you 
  have 4 small children things just haveto be done!Lesley- 
  Original Message -From: "Wayne and Cas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Monday, December 08, 2003 12:47 PMSubject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) 
  birth and breastfeeding attitudes> I breastfeed my bub in 
  church :)>> Cas, Wayne, Liam and Daniel McCullough> 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  www.casmccullough.com>>>> 
  -Original Message-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of JoFromOz> Sent: Monday, 8 December 2003 11:29 
  AM> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw:(WOW) birth and breastfeeding 
  attitudes>>> I feel very strongly about the breast 
  feeding in public issue as well.>> I can't WAIT to do it 
  myself! No wonder some people have so much> trouble breastfeeding - 
  it's not considered normal enough to do infront> of people, so how 
  do they know how to do it and how to fix the common> problems with 
  it?>> I could be on my high horse for hours about this, but 
  I'll jump off> before I start galloping away :)>> 
  Breastfeeding is just so important, and anyone who tries to tell me 
  not> to do it will cop an earful! :)>> 
  Jo>> --> Babies are Born... Pizzas are 
  delivered.>>> --> This mailing list is 
  sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.>> --> This mailing list 
  is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored 
  by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] global win promotions

[Rhonda]

  I think I got that one - but hjust didn't bother - Iin my opinion 
  anything that is too good to be true probably is too good to be true and 
  can't be true.
  Regards
  rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, 
  December 06, 2003 07:21:02
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  global win promotions
   
  what is the website that exposes hoaxes today 
  i was told i had won half a million dollars and had 1 week to claim ! 
  jan
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] babies in recovery room

[Rhonda]

  Just a guess - but I think it depends on the baby.
  I didn't get to see baby number one until 36 hours latter and held 
  her 2 weeks after birth (she was born at 27 weeks)  I remember an 
  aenesthetist coming in and saying "Congratulations!"  I lay there 
  thinking - "I nearly die and have my baby ripped ut of my stomach and you 
  are congratulating me?"  
   
  The second I insisted on having in recovery and feeding all the way 
  back to the ward.  Would not let them take that away from me - they 
  took everything else.  Don't know if that was just to make up for the 
  abuse and the forced c/s which is what is left out of these stories so 
  much (Where is the choice?).  I chose and was refused.  S had NO 
  choice and so I really hate the way they make out that you have a choice - 
  all free will. It is not that easy unless you are very well informed and 
  have support.  Many women don't get that.
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  December 04, 2003 10:05:38
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  babies in recovery room
   
  I was just curious to know if it is normal 
  practice for newborn babies to be in recovery with their Mums after a 
  ceasarian I noticed they had the baby in with the mother on the Today 
  show this morning... and wondered if it was for television,
  as I remember when I stayed with my 
  husband in recovery after leg surgery a couple of years  a woman was 
  in there after her caesarian - for some time - no baby in 
  sighttherefore a very long and sad separation for mother and baby in 
  those crucial first moments
  i'd love to hear others 
  experiences...
  kind regards,
  Nicole
   
  ps. did the new mother appear cool and 
  detached from the whole experience, to everyone else watching?? would have 
  loved to have seen the difference in her responses following a 
  homebirth.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth trauma anniversary

[Rhonda]

  Hi,
  I had flash backs for about 3 years so you are doing well.
  I found that quiet times especially on his birthday were bad and I 
  would just start crying for no real reason - but I tried to say to myself 
  - "they ruined everything else - I am not going to let them win and ruin 
  this too."  I got through it with my anger and my unwillingness to 
  let them destroy any more of my life.  
   
  I also wrote a letter to the ob and posted it the day before my 
  baby's first birthday telling him how mean he had been and how it had 
  affected my life etc.  (He had not been sorry at all.  Don't 
  think he knew the meaning.)  But, in posting that it was a big 
  forward in my own healing - I think I went through the birthday with a 
  feeling of strength from that move and in a way it was my own 
  clossure.   I had in my own way given the pain and torture 
  back.   Let the birthday be your closure and know that you 
  have got this far -- you have made it.  A celebration and 
  conclusion to a terrible year and the beginning of a beautiful new 
  future. 
   
  Anyway, you are doing so well and you are so strong!
   
  Hugs!
   
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, November 
  24, 2003 11:41:41
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Birth trauma anniversary
   
  Hi guys,
      
  Was wondering if I could get some advice from others who have had a 
  traumatic birth experience.
   
   Now that December is almost upon us 
  I've started to feel a slight sense of dread as my babe's first birthday 
  approaches.  I had PND with my first babe (10 years ago) and I am 
  trying my hardest to prevent that from happening again.
   
  I know it is my babe's birthday and that 
  it should be a time of happiness but there was so much that went wrong 
  that day and we lost so much... I can't help but feel saddness. How do I stop feeling negative about this upcoming 
  milestone?  
   
  I was wondering 
  if there is anything that others have done to recognise such an 
  anniversary without loosing the joy that befits a first birthday?  
  
   
  And, if you have personally delt with 
  birth trauma did you have flashbacks in your quieter moments? 
  For the first few months after my babe's 
  birth I  would sometimes have flash backs to theatre and would see 
  the image of a scalpel running across a little back.  It happened 
  once while I was driving and was actually quite frightening.
   
  Those 'flashbacks' have stopped for some 
  time now and I'm hoping that they won't start again. If you had flash 
  backs did they re-surface around the time of the first birthday? 
  
  I guess it would be good to have some 
  forewarning.
   
  I know this all sounds a little 'off the 
  wall' but I need to ask these questions if I'm to keep strong and sane. 
  
  ( well, at least as sane as a mother with 
  five kids can be! lol )
   
  I'm hoping that someone will have 
  answers,
  TIA,  Sonia W.
   
   
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] high head at term

[Rhonda]

  I wish her luck! 
  Long walk on the beach - really does help!
  Lots of reassurance - not toworry or be pressed into something 
  she does not want.
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, October 
  28, 2003 20:13:39
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  high head at term
   Hi there everyone,I have a friend who is a primip 
  with a high head at 40+4 weeks. The obstetrician is pressuring her to 
  book in for a caesar. She is absolutely shattered at the thought of 
  this and at the very least wants to attempt labour, preferably 
  naturally. Any inspriational success stories (of vaginal primip births 
  with high head at term), or words of wisdom that I could share with 
  her, would be much 
  appreciated.Thanks,Linda_Hot 
  chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilemania/default.asp--This 
  mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Another unec. C-section...

[Rhonda]

  LOL - and perhaps - "golf"  LOL
   
   
  Jen asks "Is there ANY circumstance that would warrant hourly 
  VEs?"
  Yes, impatience. MM
  
 
 

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possibilities. FREE for a limited time!
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] Breastfeeding info..

[Rhonda]

  
  Recent research has given support to the 
  notion that breastfeeding is less physiologically stressful for the baby 
  than bottle feeding111,112.
  This is part of a hospital policy on breastfeeding prem babies.
  Thought the link might interest some.  (if you had not found 
  it.)
  http://www.rch.unimelb.edu.au/breastfeed/section3.htm#Preterm%20Infants%20and%20Expressed%20Breastmilk
  Regards
  Rhonda
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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RE: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA

[Rhonda]

  Perhaps they had to ask before being allowed to just go and get 
  it.  Like access to medical records.  They would need 
  authorisation, I would think!
  As a mother I guess you would agree to it being available if need 
  "heaven forbid' for identification of a body.
  During my complaint the Doctors concerned had to get my permission to 
  go and look at my files to respond - so one would think that the police 
  would also need permission.
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, October 
  26, 2003 09:40:32
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA
   Hi all,My understanding is that the body of Jayden 
  Leskey was identified usingthe DNA from his heel prick test. 
  Apparently the police can have accessto the information in exceptional 
  cases. Makes you wonder about how elsethis information could be used 
  in the future doesn't it! CHEERS,Julie Garratt 
  (:-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of MarilynKleidonSent: Sunday, 26 October 2003 11:24 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  Re: [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJAYou 
  know I've heard or read that somewhere to...maybe on this 
  list!???Doesanyone know if it is true, don't want to start any 
  urban legends.marilyn- Original Message - From: 
  "Christina & Damien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Saturday, October 25, 2003 3:09 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA> A couple in 
  an Antenatal class today said that they had read of plansthat> 
  the hospitals will be keeping the heelprick DNA information for 
  agovernment> database of all newborn babies. Apparently the DNA 
  info will be kept> indefinitely. Has anyone heard anything about 
  this?> Christina>>> -Original 
  Message-> From: Marilyn Kleidon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  Date: Monday, 20 October 2003 4:19> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea -MJA>>> I 
  wince at compulsory testing too. Surely as Sally says, 
  encouragementfrom> midwives for the test to be done and good 
  education on the benefits of> screening, ensurance that the test is 
  not omitted throughpratitioner/health> system neglect, a 
  domicillary midwifery effort to document and collectthe> tests 
  not done in hospital, and perhaps compulsory submission 
  ofunfilled> sample papers (by practitioners) should parents 
  truly decline to havetheir> baby screened. However, I think we 
  must support parents' right to make> decisions we may not agree 
  with.>> marilyn>> - Original Message 
  -> From: "Jo Bourne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 8:53 PM> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea -MJA>>> 
  We passed on pretty much everything but this test and it was 
  acomplete> non-event, my daughter fed through the test without 
  even wincing, Ican't> really understand why you wouldn't do it. 
  But the idea of making it> compulsory scares me, I wonder what 
  would be next - many people can't> understand why I wouldn't 
  vaccinate.>> At 12:06 +1000 20/10/03, Sally Williams 
  wrote:> >Personally, I believe that parents should be encouraged 
  to have thistest> on their babies. Surely a moment's discomfort 
  is worth a lifetime of> illness, or no life at all!> 
  >> >Sally> >> >- Original Message 
  -> >From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>margaret 
  schmidt> >To:>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  >Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 1:35 AM> >Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] Compulsory heelpricks for newborns plea - MJA> 
  >> >Hi everyone> >> >Found this snippet 
  this morning. Going to be published in MJA thisweek.> Will make 
  for some interesting conversation at work. I hope I havepasted> 
  the link correctly. The word mandatory always sends shivers down 
  myspine.> >> >><http://news.ninemsn.com.au/Health/story_52510.asp>http://news.ninemsn.com.a> 
  u/Health/story_52510.asp> >> >Have a great day> 
  >Michelle>>> --> Jo Bourne> Virtu

Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial

[Rhonda]

  Well, I don't think the kind of birth or even recovery has a lot to 
  do with a woman's choice and what has to be done regarding work situations 
  etc - I had a horrid time, I was really badly bruised and sore and I was 
  in a state of shock for weeks after my second c/s.  Yet, at day 5 I 
  had the staples removed, had to call on the intern pead - to check me out 
  as no ob would or did come near me once he was born I was basically 
  avoided by all -  I never saw one Dr. at all until I asked to be 
  checked as the infected wound was seeping and I was going home - then the 
  best they could do was get the young trainee pead.
  Then I left the hospital and our first stop on the way home was 
  to the shop - to check out some things and organise work, so really I was 
  'working' 5 days after delivery even though I was pretty much black from 
  the waist to the knee - back from the 4 attempts at spinal and front from 
  how rough they were.  
  So, I don't think the delivery has much to do with what has to be 
  done.  Running our own business I was back in the shop (on light 
  duties with babe at breast - LOL)  about 3 weeks after he was 
  born.  
  I think working and interacting with so many people rather than being 
  at home alone with baby was what got me through those first few weeks of 
  shock.
   
  Rhonda
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, October 
  25, 2003 06:27:42
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial
   
  Cas:
   
  I think the woman concerned was simply trying 
  to state how well recovered she was physically. I was horrified at her 
  driving home from hospital at 5 days post birth - have to admit I couldn't 
  have done that, the driving I mean, I was a fruit loop  behind 
  the wheel for a few weeks after my births (probably still am 22 yrs later 
  just more aware in that vulnerable period??).
   
  marilyn
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Wayne and Caroline McCullough 

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 6:17 
AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] FW: 
ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial

Ummm... I mean't no judgement here just making an observation 
about priorities... I personally think it is very sad to go back to work 
2 weeks after the birth of your baby no matter how you are recovering 
but I realise some would have to... it was just the way it was said, as 
if it was a great accomplishment (isn't birth and motherhood a great 
accomplishment we should relish too?) to go back to work so soon. Maybe 
I'm just reading too much into the statement... I'll stop now before I 
put my foot even deeper down my throat... : ) NO offence intended... I 
support all choice!
 
cheers,
 
Cas.
 
(who went back to work on the birthcare reform campaign 4 weeks 
after birth : ) )
 
 
Cas McCullough
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.casmccullough.com
 

  
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jen 
  SempleSent: Friday, 24 October 2003 4:22 PMTo: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] 
  FW: ausfem-polnet Randomised controlled trial
  I know it's a little of topic, but I just wanted to respond to 
  the scentence below...
   
  While I personally can't imagine going back to work 2 YEARS after 
  my babies are born (assuming I have the choice), I think it's really 
  important that we don't judge individuals based on their 
choices.
   
  One of the hardest things about birth politics for me is the 
  polarisation... doctor vs. midwife, "natural" birth vs. elective 
  caesar/epidural, etc.  It's so sad, cause we all want the same 
  thing CHOICE (which women who want one-to-one midwifery care are 
  being denied).
   
  In solidarity (thanks Justine),
   
  Jen
  
  (fancy 
thinking your priority is to go back to work 2 weeks after a 
babyis born! Gotta wonder what hormones were or were not working 
there) 
  
  
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  possibilities. FREE for a limited time!
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald

[Rhonda]

  "  isn't/wouldn't it be comparing the proverbial apples and 
  oranges? Isn'tit> a bit like randomising a group of healthy 
  people (who agreed to be in sucha> trial??) to prophylactic 
  appendicectomy (sp) or appendicectomy forsymptons> only to see 
  if elective removal of the appendix was a safer procedure?"
   
   
  LOL - ok women - lets all line up for gall bladder op's - why wait 
  for the attack when lots of people have stones.  
  Lets just select an age and do them as preventative medicine.
  Just to see if removing everyones gall bladder prevents attacks - bet 
  that would be a possitive result!  
  Where would it stop?
  Have gall bladder - must need removal 
  Pregnant - must need a c/s
  Have appendix - OUT IT GOES!
  There will be little left to require treatment!
  If they can't stick something into you then they want to take 
  something out - and we wonder why doctors have high insurance?
   
  Rhonda - (couldn't help myself!)
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, October 
  24, 2003 07:17:30
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald
   I agree Marilyn. Another sneaking suspicion in my mind is 
  that in thistrial, I am sure they will bring forward a qualitative 
  arm, seeing if womenprefer it. This is one trial where I don't think 
  the researchers will stickto scientific findings only - they need 
  women to prefer it, don't they?- Original Message -From: 
  "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Friday, October 24, 2003 11:00 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in 
  Sydney Morning Herald> I just had this thought while having 
  the morning shower:>> I think the idea of a RCT for Vaginal 
  vs c/s birth is flawed (as we haveall> said) not only ethically 
  but in a true epidemiological sense, I mean> isn't/wouldn't it be 
  comparing the proverbial apples and oranges? Isn'tit> a bit 
  like randomising a group of healthy people (who agreed to be in 
  sucha> trial??) to prophylactic appendicectomy (sp) or 
  appendicectomy forsymptons> only to see if elective removal of 
  the appendix was a safer procedure? Now> wouldn't the prophylactic 
  group have better outcomes at least in the> immediate post surgery 
  period than those who waited for onset of acute sx?> fewer post 
  surgery infections etc?? I mean for such a trial to have any> 
  meaning over the life time wouldn't you also need a group of 
  healthypeople> who never had an acute episode which needed an 
  intervention? Even so it isa> fruitless meaningless trial which 
  could only prove that prophylacticsurgery> was 
  better?>> The same with the c/s trial. It has to be stopped. 
  It is a set up.>> marilyn> - Original Message 
  -> From: "*G and S*" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> 
  Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 12:34 AM> Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald>>> > 
  Have heard it said that since most women in> > Australia are 
  having 2 children these days, 2 c/s is not such a badthing> 
  > like why risk a vaginal birth ( said by a woman). It just breaks 
  myheart.> > Too many failed inductions, too many 
  interventions, too much fear.> >> > thinking of going 
  fishing> >> > marilyn> >> 
  >> > *I think we'll be at the same fishing spot and in the 
  same boat!*> > Sonia.> >> > --> > 
  This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> > Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.> >>>> 
  --> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit 
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Re: [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald

[Rhonda]

  Maybe that is WHY women are only having 2 children!  
  Perhaps that is to much of an obvious link.  But after my 
  "treatment' 
  fear is a big factor in any future plans - too scared to go near an 
  ob.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, October 
  23, 2003 18:05:07
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] C/S in Sydney Morning Herald
   Have heard it said that since most women inAustralia 
  are having 2 children these days, 2 c/s is not such a bad thinglike 
  why risk a vaginal birth ( said by a woman). It just breaks my 
  heart.Too many failed inductions, too many interventions, too much 
  fear.thinking of going fishingmarilyn*I think 
  we'll be at the same fishing spot and in the same 
  boat!*Sonia.--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
  Graphics.Visit  
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Re: [ozmidwifery] A few questions. (sorry long answer)

[Rhonda]

  Marilyn,
   
  This would indicate that there have been no real studies on VBAC 
  women who have already had previous vaginal births to the c/s.  

  Hmm. 
   
  As to prostoglandin not being used!  Yes - well my main problem 
  4 yrs ago was that they wanted to use prostoglandin to induce me and I 
  refused as after having 5 lots of it at 26weeks with my first (and then a 
  c/s) I didn't want it used again.  They then labelled me as ' 
  argumentative' and I got treated really badly and forced to have a second 
  c/s even after going into spontaneous labour.
  So up until 4 yrs ago they were still using it and when I complained 
  the ob. fell back on the fact that it is still commonly used on women who 
  have had a c/s.  (that was in a letter about 2 yrs ago.)
   
  Can't imagine things have changed since then.  Maybe!!!
   
  Rhonda
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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RE: [ozmidwifery] A few questions. (sorry long answer)

[Rhonda]

  Hi Sonia,
  I agree with Cas, I think that the doctors really do need a wake up 
  call based on the fact that if they have an 'accident' during a c/s they 
  seem to say well - there was a risk.  But, they feel that is not good 
  enough if there is a probem with a vaginal birth - as they probably feel 
  that they have less control of a vaginal birth than they do of a c/s 
  delivery.  (Big difference!)
  You can also say that your c/s may not have been needed as baby had 2 
  weeks to turn or more before there was any real danger and may have done 
  so on his own.  If you had been told that the baby was only 9lb and 
  11 lb's what would you have done?
   
  I have also (as a body piercer) just been through the receiving 
  end of a court case.  We didn't do the piercing at all - very 
  complicated (fraud) etc,...  However, I did learn a lot about 
  the legal system and civil cases.
  The cost of a court case (civil) would be about the $20,000 - I know 
  it is a lot but I think a good lawer would do it on a no win no fee 
  or some other basis for you.
  You may be looking at getting between $100,000 to $1 million.
  Now, as far as winning a court case - well, in a civil 
  matter you don't actually need proof - all you need to do is to make 
  it likely - 51% your way that you may not have had these problems had you 
  not been convinced that a c/s was the best option.  You would need to 
  explain that the risk of this happening was never told to you 
  prior to it - did they 'scare monger' you and say - a lot of women get PND 
  after a c/s or there is a risk of cutting the baby or there is a risk 
  of damage to your uterus that may result in it not being advisable to 
  have any more children.  By law they have to tell you of all the 
  risks prior to performing any procedure.  You don't have to prove 
  thay didn't you just need to make the judge believe that they didn't. 
  (something to think about for everyone).
   If it seems likely to the judge that you were not told of those 
  risks and that you agreed to the c/s without full knowledge of these risks 
  then the dr's were negligent.
  You don't need complete and total proof like you would in a 
  murder trial - all you need to do is to convince the judge that harm 
  was done to you and it is likely to be the result of the dr's actions and 
  is likely to be a result of some negligence in his ability.
  Ie: He  should have known how to stemt he bleeding and not 
  cut your baby!
  He should have given you the option of natural ways to make the baby 
  turn.
  He should have not cut that artery in the first place.
  If you can get any evidence to prove that what happened could have 
  been avoided and was not the only course of treatment available to you 
  then you have a very good chance of winning.
   
  As Cas said - he has insurance for these things.  That is why he 
  pays it.
   
  It is entirely up to you but I know that having 
  enough money to be able to access private midwives and to have 
  full choice about your future care is very important if you want more 
  children - I would think that it would be safer to have a VBAC,  if 
  you have delivered before is a big advantage.  A first vaginal 
  delivery after a c/s is probably likely to be higher risk as it may be a 
  longer labour - anyone know if the studies done were on women who had 
  previous vaginal deliveries or if they were VBAC and first vaginal 
  delivery.  I think that fact would be relevant?
  And were ruptures on women who had multiple vaginal deliveries and 
  one c/s or what?  I think that the Doctors probably have very few 
  real statistics to use to 'scar monger' you with and I would be asking for 
  them to produce the studies to back them etc.  Ask for 
  an evidence based assesment!
   
  Good Luck 
  Rhonda 
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, 
  October 22, 2003 21:38:40
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] A few questions.
   Hi Sonia,I only just now read your birth story... 
  This has been a tough week forme birthwise because I've just seen the 
  devastation on my neice's faceafter her "coerced" c-section but 
  somehow I've just got to press on. What happened to you is 
  horrible and I can understand that the doctorswould be scare-mongering 
  more than usual but if I were you I'd take thetime to look at the 
  research thoroughly then talk over your situationwith both midwives 
  (homebirth midwives would be g

Re: [ozmidwifery] Fw: The Next Survivor Series

[Rhonda]

  After a heated debate this morning with my dearest pig headed husband 
  - Can I enter him PLEASE
   
  He seemed think that as I had got one child to school and one to 
  child care and had got half way through compiling and calculating the GST 
  and BAS for the past three months by 10.30am  - 
   but had not cleaned the lounge or done the dishes 
  or got a load of washing on - I obviously had done NOTHING!
   
  He mind you had got out of bed (major task) - gone to the toilet 
  (another major task) and got dressed ( so much effort) and eaten his 
  breakfast.
  So of course HE had done so much more than me.
   
  Thank you so much for this it really made my day.
   
  Rhonda (who does nothing - of course!)
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 16 
  October 2003 03:04:35 PM
  To: list
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Fw: The Next Survivor Series
   - Original Message -From: "Vicki Maher" 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  "Aileen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Cc: 
  "Terry & Greg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Terrie"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Tamara" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Steve &Laura" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Steve" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;"Peta 
  Ann Paget" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Pauline" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;"Linda" 
  &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Kerry Bradley" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;"Kelly" 
  &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Karen" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "JoJ" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Jennifer Buckland" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Emma& David" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Cheryl" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;"Charlie" 
  &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Carol O'B"<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Carol & Peter" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;"Barbara" 
  &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
  "Amanda" &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;"Allison" 
  &lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Monday, October 13, 2003 9:04 PMSubject: Fw: The Next Survivor 
  Series>> Take Care> Luv> 
  Vicki>>>> The Next Survivor 
  Series>>>>>>>> 
  THE>> NEXT>> SURVIVOR>> 
  SERIES>> *>> *>> 
  *>> *>> Six married men>> will 
  be dropped>> on an island>> 
  with>> 1 car and 4 kids>> 
  each,>> for 6 weeks.>> Each kid plays two 
  sports>> and either>> takes>> 
  music or>> dance classes.>> *>> 
  *>> *>> There is no access to fast 
  food.>> ***>>> Each man must take care 
  of his 4 kids, keep his>> assigned house clean, correct all 
  homework, complete>> science projects, cook, do laundry, 
  etc.>>>> The men only have access to 
  television when the>> kids are asleep and all chores are 
  done. There is>> only one TV between them>> 
  and>> there is NO REMOTE>> 
  *>>>> The men must shave their 
  legs,>> wear makeup daily,>> which they must 
  apply themselves,>> either while driving or>> 
  while making four lunches.>>>> 
  *>> They must attend weekly PTA 
  meetings;>> *>> clean up after their sick 
  children at 3:00 a.m.;>> *>> make an Indian 
  hut model with six toothpicks,>> a tortilla and one 
  marker;>> *>> and get a 4-year-old to eat a 
  serving of peas.>> *>> *>> 
  *>> *>> The kids vote them off the island, 
  based on performance.>>> >> The 
  last man wins ..>>>> only if 
  >>>> he has enough energy to be 
  intimate with his spouse at a>> moment's 
  notice.>> *>> *>> 
  *>>>> If the last man does win, he can play 
  the game over and over again> for the next 18-25 years...eventually 
  earning the right to be called>> "Mother.">> 
  *>> *>> One more thing, they cannot 
  kill themselves or the kids, or> they automatically get voted 
  off.>>>>>>>>--This 
  mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?

[Rhonda]

   
  I went through a very arduous and difficult 2 yrs of complaints 
  through the hospital an the Helath Services and Medical Practitioners 
  board.  I think it is important for women to get their complaint out 
  there - nothing will change unless women complain and make it known that 
  there is a problem.
  So if anyone wants help to go through this - it is not easy and can 
  be very stressful.  After I had my son I duffered Post Traumatic 
  Shock - I didn't actually get depressed until I was told repeatedly by the 
  Health Services "Investigator" that I was only complaining because I was 
  depressed and then closed the case.  That was depresing but lead to 
  me going to the medical practitioners board and to writing my 'entire' 
  story which will one day - soon I hope.  Be ready for print.  I 
  want to encourage women to speak up and not to let these things get 
  brushed under the carpet.  Like your family Jan!  That sort of 
  thing needs to be stopped.  The only way to stop it is to make the 
  authorities see that it is wrong. 
   
  OK - stepping down...
   
  Sonia, I look forward to hearing your story - I know how hard it is 
  to get it out but it does help.
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, 13 
  October 2003 01:58:15 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?
   
  Hi Rhonda,
  You have just jogged my memory. There is a mum who has written a 
  couple of long stories on my website forum - she has experienced very sad 
  effects of birth trauma, you may be able to offer her some empathy -anyone 
  else -all comments welcome. It is great to see women feeling free to let 
  it go from their hearts but Im not sure whether there is anything else 
  which may help.  I certainly hear that she needs validation after how 
  her trauma affected her bonding experience and I have emailed her 
  personally. I feel I dont want to turn the forum into a "dear pinky" nor 
  do I have time to do lots of personal "counselling".
  Thanks
  Pinky
  www.pinky-mychild.com
   
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:30 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] new 
here/okay?


  
  

  Hi,
  I am not a midwife either, I am a however, mothercraft 
  nurse and the wonderful women on this list have helped me in 
  finding answers (and being able to understand that sometimes there 
  are no answers) after my two traumatic birth experiences.)
  If you are needing someone to talk to about how to 'complain' 
  without taking legal action etc.  Please feel free to contact 
  me.  Either on or off list
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  So welcome.
   
  Also, have you found the birthrites site - also very helpful 
  and Australian.  Have not go the address at hand right now - 
  I am sure someone will though if you need it.
       
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
   
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, 
  12 October 2003 07:33:21 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?
   Greetings.May I introduce myself firstly 
  by telling you up front that I am not amidwife, doula 
  orobstetric professional. I was however a registered nurse, 
  have had fivebabes and have plenty of questions and thoughts 
  regarding birth.A friend of mine who lectures in midwifery 
  suggested this list as a goodplace to be.I had a hideous 
  birth experience in January (the chance of it happeningagain 
  is supposed to be greater then 1 in 1,000,000) and though I do 
  notwish to sue my ob, I still need some answers that he can't 
  / won't give me.But before I launch into my story I thought I 
  should check it out with youguys first to see if you are happy 
  to have me around.I will understand if you think that this is 
  an inappropriate place for me tobe.TIA, 
  Sonia.PS. I am an Australian and I was a member of the 
  Ican list. I left itbecause I really needed local &#

Re: [ozmidwifery] new here/okay?

[Rhonda]

  Hi,
  I am not a midwife either, I am a however, mothercraft nurse and 
  the wonderful women on this list have helped me in finding answers (and 
  being able to understand that sometimes there are no answers) after my two 
  traumatic birth experiences.)
  If you are needing someone to talk to about how to 'complain' without 
  taking legal action etc.  Please feel free to contact me.  
  Either on or off list
   
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  So welcome.
   
  Also, have you found the birthrites site - also very helpful and 
  Australian.  Have not go the address at hand right now - I am sure 
  someone will though if you need it.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, 12 
  October 2003 07:33:21 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  new here/okay?
   Greetings.May I introduce myself firstly by 
  telling you up front that I am not amidwife, doula orobstetric 
  professional. I was however a registered nurse, have had fivebabes and 
  have plenty of questions and thoughts regarding birth.A friend of mine 
  who lectures in midwifery suggested this list as a goodplace to 
  be.I had a hideous birth experience in January (the chance of it 
  happeningagain is supposed to be greater then 1 in 1,000,000) and 
  though I do notwish to sue my ob, I still need some answers that he 
  can't / won't give me.But before I launch into my story I thought I 
  should check it out with youguys first to see if you are happy to have 
  me around.I will understand if you think that this is an inappropriate 
  place for me tobe.TIA, Sonia.PS. I am an Australian 
  and I was a member of the Ican list. I left itbecause I really needed 
  local 'talk'. KWIM?--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
  Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] solids for 11mth old

[Rhonda]

  Yes, some wont eat - but it is important to offer - there is a 
  difference between offering and force feeding dear.  Making food 
  acceptable and available - some people just don't offer (there is a huge 
  difference).
   
  I also know of a child who at 3yrs was almost solely breast fed 
  because they were so keen onbreast feeding they didn't let her eat until 
  12 months and then she was not interested and she was very underweight - 
  now at 12yrs (I gather she is not still breast fed!) but she is very 
  over weight, quite an eating disorder.  Hmm!  
  But, Mum and Dad used to chase her around the house to get her to 
  have a nibble of a dried apricot etc. *grin*  
  So, I agree with the entire attitude thing but still think it is 
  important to 'offer' from a young age - and as I said even that taste of 
  vegi's 1/2 a tspoon a day (even if they spit it out) educates the taste 
  buds and makes food acceptable.
   
  Rhonda
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, 03 
  September 2003 07:57:45 AM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] solids for 11mth old
   
  Hi Ronda,
  i beg to differ - actually some babies wont touch solids despite them 
  being available -my daughter (now 23 and a healthy vegetarian who has no 
  eating disorders or food fusses and didnt as a child)  had two 
  siblings to copy and was always at the table on my lap at meals and 
  offered food -this baby would reach for a toy and chew on it but 
  refused any offer of solids until 11 months . She had been a 
  colicky baby who reacted to foods - particularly citrus in my diet up to 6 
  months so I surmised she was possibly allergic -yet at the later age she 
  didnt react or refuse any foods once she started to gradually eat.
   
  I have known lots of babies within La Leche League (I was a 
  group leader for 14 years) who took solids much later (in the second 
  half of their first year) and only ever saw one who showed signs of 
  lethargy -this bub had a vegan mum and after the mum had B12 injections 
  the baby remarkably became energised and crawled etc within days. All the 
  other bubs who started foods later were healthy happy kids and didnt have 
  any food fights or fussiness as toddlers -I think the parents 
  attitude (ie forcing) creates more eating problems since it can be 
  more of a power reaction/ battle. When we are relaxed and following the 
  baby's lead - whether it be with eating or sleeping etc - we avoid battles 
  over such natural functions .
   
  I do agree though that good old fruit and veges would be a great 
  start.  
   
  Pinky
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 
11:47 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] solids 
for 11mth old


  
  

  What ever happened to good old vegetables and fruit?
  Mashed Vegi's and stewed fruit would be a good start - I used 
  to pressure cook the vegi's - use the juice to mash them and then 
  cool what was left of the juice as a very healthy drink - my 
  babies loved it. 
  Also mention if left too long to introduce new tastes and 
  experiences, it may cause eating problems, digestive 
  problems and eating disorders.
  My 4 yr old boy started on mashed vegi's at about 6 - 7 
  months now loves broccoli and peas and my daughter started eating 
  a little younger and at nine she eats anything - asparagus, 
  brussel sprouts, pumpkin, salad, letuce, celery, tomatoes - not so 
  keen on lollies.
  She was prem and started solids at a corrected 3 months, 
  actual 6 months and has absolutely no dietary or eating 
  problems.  My son was full term and is so fussy compared to 
  her but still pinches the broccoli off everyone elses plate, have 
  to eat quick or he gets it.  LOL.
   
  From about 6 to 8 months they do need to introduce some 
  food even if it is just one spoon a day - it is important to 
  start with something.
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, 
  01 September 2003 11:25:19 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

Re: [ozmidwifery] solids for 11mth old

[Rhonda]

  What ever happened to good old vegetables and fruit?
  Mashed Vegi's and stewed fruit would be a good start - I used to 
  pressure cook the vegi's - use the juice to mash them and then cool what 
  was left of the juice as a very healthy drink - my babies loved 
  it. 
  Also mention if left too long to introduce new tastes and 
  experiences, it may cause eating problems, digestive 
  problems and eating disorders.
  My 4 yr old boy started on mashed vegi's at about 6 - 7 months now 
  loves broccoli and peas and my daughter started eating a little younger 
  and at nine she eats anything - asparagus, brussel sprouts, pumpkin, 
  salad, letuce, celery, tomatoes - not so keen on lollies.
  She was prem and started solids at a corrected 3 months, actual 6 
  months and has absolutely no dietary or eating problems.  My son was 
  full term and is so fussy compared to her but still pinches the broccoli 
  off everyone elses plate, have to eat quick or he gets it.  
LOL.
   
  From about 6 to 8 months they do need to introduce some 
  food even if it is just one spoon a day - it is important to start 
  with something.
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, 01 
  September 2003 11:25:19 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  solids for 11mth old
   
  a mother who is fully b/f her baby on demand 
  at 11 months is asking me why her daughter has to have food? I chatted 
  about fe oral experiences teeth social and food experiences.
  the mother would like a ref for introducing 
  solids that are organic and wheat and diary free any good info or web 
  sites etc jan 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Interesting stats on doctors quitting

[Rhonda]

   
  , "we might all be better off if they just use our excellent> 
  public hospitals!"
   -  If only the public Hospital System was not such a cattle 
  yard of crap then it would be good - I could not call it excellent - it 
  failed me twice!
  Rhonda.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Hair Loss

[Rhonda]

   
  In my friends case there is almost 4 yrs gap but I think it would be 
  related more to the steroids that she was on.  And being so 
ill.
  Will pass on the hint.
   
  Thanks
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, August 
  22, 2003 23:40:48
  To: Ozmidwifery
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Hair Loss
   I remember an accupuncturist recommending accupuncture 
  for hair loss relatedto pregnancy. It would also be helpful in the 
  postnatal period as well I'dimagine. Apparently, hair loss is a result 
  of the woman having babies inquick succession without giving the body 
  time to recover from each pregnancyrather than the breastfeeding. I 
  hope this is helpful.regardskathy--This mailing list 
  is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Polyhydramnios

[Rhonda]

   
  Yes - cord prolaps - I was told that due to the excess fluid I 
  could have my waters break at any time from 31 weeks. I was not kept 
  in hospital and not told to take it easyat all, Not even told at that 
  stage of a risk of cord prolaps (not even told to check for it if my 
  waters broke.) I worked, shopped etc etc - did all normal things - 
  actually ran my own shop and worked at 40+ weeks.   Walking to 
  the hospital from work for a check up where the Ob. felt the head and said 
  that they could break soon or they would do ARM next week.  I left 
  the hospital and walked back to shop - still had no warning of any 
  possible cord prolaps.
  So when the Ob. decided she wanted to do a c/s due to the risk of 
  prolasp it was my theory that if the waters broke (as I had been told 
  to expect) at work or in the supermarket - cord prolaps may be a real 
  problem - but when I was asking to have ARM as an alternative to c/s in a 
  hospital with the controlled environment  and supposed knowledge 
  supposed trained staff etc  - then it should have been my choice 
  to go with the risk of that -  not them refusing.  Three dr's 
  said that they could and would but were not allowed to treat me - so the 
  one I got wouldn't.  I guess it is just another breach of womens 
  rights - justified by red tape.  Less risk involved with a c/s than 
  the minimal risk of cord prolaps - now I was sure that there was some risk 
  with a c/s??  Sorry - just feeling a bit sarcastic tonight.  
  regardless of how anyone tries to justify the way I was treated - it still 
  sucks!  george will be 4 next month and somehow his birthday is a 
  hard time for me.  Most of the year I manage to forget but his 
  birthday is a very sad time for me.  
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, August 
  21, 2003 18:38:38
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Polyhydramnios
   
  I think that because polyhydramnios can be a symptom of serious 
  disorders usually with the baby this is a good reason to investigate with 
  scans and blood tests. Once this is done one can assume it is a normal 
  variation (rather than deviation) of pregnancy. However, I do 
  think, it is reasonable and important to try to rule out possible 
  disorders/problems that may be able to be corrected when detected. One 
  good reason for not doing ARM with polyhydramnios is possible cord 
  prolapse especially if the head is not engagged.
   
  I have been quiet for a while due to my laptop getting infected with 
  the blasterworm. So, I was able to get my emails but it would shut down 
  really quickly plus I didn't want to risk sending it to anyone. My 
  firewall is now supposed to be activated and my computer is dewormed and 
  virus free. AGAIN!! Perhaps I should read those emails from microsoft and 
  install updates!!! ummm!!!
   
  marilyn
   
   
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 
6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
Polyhydramnios


  
  

  I had Polyhydramnious with my second - at 29 weeks was told 
  that "false" pre term labour was caused by the fact that my uterus 
  was already the size it should be at 40 weeks.
  At 36 weeks I was larger than a woman I knew who was 38 weeks 
  with twins. ( both 6lb+ born!).    
  By 42 weeks I was very uncomfrotable, one meter twenty 
  five around my stomach,  then and Dr's refused to do 
  ARM - perhaps they were worried they would be 
  'drowned'.  LOL
  After subsequent c/s - apgars were 9 and 10
  Never a problem with 8lb 10 oz baby.  Then was told I 
  may not have had Polyhydramnious anyway - maybe it was just a lot 
  of fluid (clever ob.)  Anyone know the difference?
  Had my first at 27 weeks due to severe P.E.
   
  Good luck to her - maybe a sling to help with the muscles if 
  her tummy gets heavy - something nobody told me about.
   
  Rhonda    
   
   
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  August 21, 2003 01:50:14
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Polyhydramnios
   In my o

[ozmidwifery] Fw: Another Way

[Rhonda]

   
  Just had to pass this on. 
  Isn't the medical system wonderful!  LOL
   
   
   
    
  Another Way
   
  A couple, both age 
  76, went to a sex therapist’s Office, “Can I help you? The Doctor 
  asked.The man said, “ Will you watch us have sexual 
  intercourse?”The Doctor looked puzzled, but agreed. When the couple 
  finished, the Doctor said, “there’s nothing wrong with the way you have 
  intercourse,” and charged them $50.This happened several weeks in a 
  row. The couple would make an appointment, have intercourse with no 
  problems, pay the Doctor, then leave.Finally the Doctor asked, “ Just 
  exactly what are you trying to find out?”The old man said, “ We’re not 
  trying to find out anything, She’s married and we can’t go to her house, 
  I’m married and we can’t afford to go to my house. The Motel Inn 
  charges $90 and the Hilton is $108. We do it here for $50 and I get 
  $43 back from Medicare.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Polyhydramnios

[Rhonda]

  I had Polyhydramnious with my second - at 29 weeks was told that 
  "false" pre term labour was caused by the fact that my uterus was already 
  the size it should be at 40 weeks.
  At 36 weeks I was larger than a woman I knew who was 38 weeks with 
  twins. ( both 6lb+ born!).    
  By 42 weeks I was very uncomfrotable, one meter twenty five 
  around my stomach,  then and Dr's refused to do ARM - 
  perhaps they were worried they would be 'drowned'.  LOL
  After subsequent c/s - apgars were 9 and 10
  Never a problem with 8lb 10 oz baby.  Then was told I may not 
  have had Polyhydramnious anyway - maybe it was just a lot of fluid (clever 
  ob.)  Anyone know the difference?
  Had my first at 27 weeks due to severe P.E.
   
  Good luck to her - maybe a sling to help with the muscles if her 
  tummy gets heavy - something nobody told me about.
   
  Rhonda    
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, August 
  21, 2003 01:50:14
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Polyhydramnios
   In my own personal experience of polyhydramnios there was 
  problem with my baby (hydropic with pleural effusions and ascites). 
  Intrauterine shunts corrected the problem and his was born at 36 
  weeks. The labour was completely without a 
  hicup.DebbieSheena Johnson wrote:>Does anyone 
  have any experience with polyhydramnios in an otherwise 
  normal>pregnancy. All the scans and blood screens have come back 
  negative. There>are conflicting dates between 36 to 38 wks, 
  measuring 37wks at midwives>clinic and 38 wks at GP/Obs 
  surgery,challenge also negative. Mum has had a>previous 22wk 
  induced abortion for severe spina bifida, but with a 
  different>partner and has one health child with this partner. Just 
  wondering how>common extra fluid is and how much is too much. 8 wk 
  scan results being>chased up as taken 
  interstate.>>Sheena Johnson>Midwifery 
  Student>>-->This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
  Graphics.>Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.>> 
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  Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
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[ozmidwifery] Hair Loss

[Rhonda]

   
  Hello wise women,
   
  I know some time ago we spoke about hair loss.
  Well my friend who had her baby a while ago, the one who had colitis 
  and steroids and a terrible time (the failed abortion etc.).  
  Probably as a result of the steroids, the illness, the pregnancy, the 
  c/s at 36 weeks and successfull fully breastfeeding her baby and 
  doing an accountancy course which she not long ago had exams -  is 
  almost going bald.  (really - I have seen photos, her hair is falling 
  out in clumps)
  She is so worried and has cut what she has left short but it is 
  getting very thin as well.
   
  I can't remember if there were any hints on helping to stop hair loss 
  or promote new growth - so if anyone has any ideas to help her or can 
  remember what was said then some help would be nice.
   
  Thanks
  Rhonda
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] co sleeping

[Rhonda]

  I found that to get them to learn the bottle (if absolutely 
  necessary) I would feed until my boy went to sleep and then carefull swap 
  the nipple for the bottle and then once sucking I would sort of wake him - 
  so he knew he had the dreaded bottle in his mouth.  It took a while 
  but after a few goes like this he seemed to learn that it was the same 
  stuff.
  Good luck.
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, July 28, 
  2003 21:00:08
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] co sleeping
   
  Hi Kathy,  I have co-slept with all of 
  my children & on returning to work (I used to work mainly night shift 
  with my 2nd & third) my husband coped quite well with EBM in the 
  fridge & freezer.  My problem was that none of my previous 3 
  children ever really took to the bottle even with EBM in it.  We did 
  find however that they woke less when I wasn't there to feed them & 
  would just come to me when I arrived home with bursting breasts for a huge 
  feed.  When they got older, Marty would just take a bottle of water 
  to bed with him (The kids slept with him even when I wasn't there) & 
  they would have a small amount of water.  I haven't returned to work 
  again after my last babe (he's 4.5 mths) but I'm also a little worried as 
  he is not interested in having EBM in the bottle... he also wants the real 
  thing (actually I think he is suffering from what I call reverse nipple 
  confusion.. he has no idea what to do with a bottle teat).  Good 
  Luck.  TIna H.
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
simsarch 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2003 2:35 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] co 
sleeping

I  too am co sleeping with my six month old baby 
and am loving every bit of it.  She is my third child and I didn't 
do it with the other two (don't know why).  She tends to feed a lot 
at night which hasn't been a problem.  However, I don't 
know what to do now as I am returning to work in a month and don't know 
how my partner will cope with these night time grazings if I am out with 
a labouring woman.  Can anyone offer me any advice?  She 
probably feeds every 2 hours, but it is more of a snack than a decent 
feed.  we am getting plenty of pressure to do the controlled 
crying thing in order to get her feeding less frequently at night which 
we really don't want to do, but on the other hand we need to make the 
situation more manageable for my husband who doesn't have the boobs if 
I'm not there overnight.  Many thanks, Kathy

 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] co -sleeping

[Rhonda]

  Dogs in bed!
   
    To my mothers shock - in the early hour of the morning my 
  sisters dog climbed up onto her bed and gave birth to her first pup.  
  She had been in the bathroom with a whelping box and nothing had happened 
  - someone went into the room, the dog ran out and found a nice 
  safe place to have her pup (on the nice warm bed!).  She was returned 
  to the box in the bathroom for the rest of them but I am sure if she 
  had her way she would have had all 4 pups in my mothers bed.  
  LOL
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, July 
  23, 2003 20:18:33
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  co -sleeping
   
  Five alive and all co-slept too! I just 
  realised today that I dont actually personally know anyone who has NEVER 
  taken their children into their bed - my neighbour once took her whining 
  bull terrier puppy into her bed, and shes a super houseproud 
  lady!
  Pinky
   
   







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Re: [ozmidwifery] Third time labours

[Rhonda]

  Well, I really guess I don''t know what I would expect - first was an 
  emergency c/s at 27 weeks due to sever PE (one contraction after 5 lots of 
  prostin which actually swelled and burnt my vagina - lovely!)
  The second I refused induction with prostin (any guess as to why I 
  may have been worried about it?!) and so was deemed as being agressive and 
  at 42 weeks had 24 hours labour and abuse by doctors and finally caved in 
  to the pressure and had another c/s.  
  If I do have another it will have to be a home birth - too bloody 
  scared to go to a dr or anywhere near a hospital.
   
  So it is a rather frightening prospect - don't know if I am up to the 
  challenge.
  Just keep telling myself that it has to be third time 
  lucky.  LOL
   
  Rhonda 
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, July 22, 
  2003 11:01:11
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Third time labours
   
  Rhonda,
  Its pretty widely appreciated especially 
  where i work that women having third labours have the potential to take a 
  while to settle into regular contractions, but when they do its usually a 
  swift labour.
  Hope this helps
  Janet
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Chapman 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 9:07 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Third 
time labours


    
Rhonda,
My 30 yr old son was my first CS and I was encouraged to wear a light 
panty girdle afterwards for a while to support the belly. 
Still used the same thing for my daughter 19 months later. I think 
it helps the pain a bit for a while but my sag in the skin is still not 
good. Even when I had lost weight I could not wear my bellydance skirt 
too low, would have rolled right under and looked yuk. 
Cheers
Judy 
 



    From: "Rhonda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Third time labours 
Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:27:35 +1000 (AUS Eastern Standard 
Time) 


I have often wondered about tight clothing and support both 
before and after 
birth as all the articles I have read on liposuction have all 
said that the 
skin needs to b supported while it shrinks back and to help 
this they have 
firm clothing and special tight fitting garments to aid in 
the shrinking of 
the skin as the fat is removed and it has to shrink back. is 
this not the 
same when a baby is born - the skin has to shrink back in a 
short amount of 
time even if it has had a longer time to stretch. I wish 
someone had 
suggested this after my last baby - especially after a c/s. I 
am sure my 
sag" would not be so bad had I done something like that. 

Rhonda. 
---Original Message--- 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Date: Sunday, July 20, 2003 22:48:55 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Third time labours 

My immediate thought would be that they may have a wide gap 
in their 
abdo muscles which instead of supporting the uterus allows it 
to drop 
into the gap when they are upright. Of course when they lie 
down the 
uterus falls back and on palp all feels OK. What happens 
though is that 
with the uterus too far forward the baby is not encouraged 
into the 
pelvis and hence no real stimulation of the cervix to 
encourage 
prostaglandin, or oxytocin production or provide mechanical 
dilatation. 
What to do is maybe encourage wearing of firm undies that 
support the 
abdo. (A woman told me the other day that when she had her 
babies in the 
sixties they were told to wear very firm underwear that 
supported the 
stomach muscles.) Sport nicks would be what I would suggest. 
Hope this 
helps and this is the sort of stuff we all hold in our heads 
but nobody 
gets around to writing down 
Andrea Quanchi 
On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 01:04 AM, Ken Ward wrote: 

> We have recently had two women, third pregnancies, 
experiencing 
> difficult 
> spurious labours. They have come in, contracting 2/60, 
with what feels 
> like 
> good conts. But have gotten no where. B

Re: [ozmidwifery] Third time labours

[Rhonda]

   
  Has it anything to do with the "third time Lucky" theory?
  *Grin*
  Rhonda.
  NB: Lovely story - thank you for sharing!
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, July 20, 
  2003 23:19:09
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Third time labours
   
  Just to add more to the confusion, my own third baby was my best 
  birth. The first was a forceps lift out, she was OP and sunny side up, my 
  third was a vaginal breech and 25 yrs ago the ob who "lifted her out" used 
  "piper forceps to ach" which I was told meant to guide the head out 
  slowly. Then my third baby with midwives at an alternative birthing center 
  in Chicago (22yrs ago) was completely natural, spontaneous unassisted 
  vaginal birth, intact peri, with my other 2 daughters and my parents 
  present as well as husband. Later, concerned that I may continue to 
  multiply my mother, a retired aussie midwife  advised me that the 3rd 
  birth is the "wild card" and that I shouldn't think each birth would be 
  just as easy from here on. So, I guess the stories about 3rd births have a 
  long history, I do wonder if the stats back them up.
   
  marilyn
   
  - Original Message - 
  
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 3:16 
AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Third 
time labours


  
  

   
  Well you just totally quashed my desire for another child - 
  already rather worried because of my last two disaster stories, 
  I had this little bit of hope in me as my sister's all had 
  very easy 3rd births - best pregnancy and birth for all three 
  of them and they said that the third was better than the fourth 
  and all gave me some hope that maybe if I did try again it would 
  not be so bad.  Now I am even more confused as maybe the 
  third is not always the best after all.
  Hmm.
  So I would be interested if there are any studies.
  Rhonda
  
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, 
  July 20, 2003 20:11:52
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Third time labours
   I too have observed this. it also happens in 
  grand multies, but i have noevidence or research. 
  MM> We have recently had two women, third 
  pregnancies, experiencing difficult> spurious labours. They 
  have come in, contracting 2/60, with what feelslike> 
  good conts. But have gotten no where. Bubs head high, no 
  dilatation, justan> exhausted mum and very tired and 
  puzzled support people. I have done asearch> on the 
  net, but no research seems to have been done. Anecdotal 
  evidence> suggests third pregnancies often fiddle around. 
  Anyone have anysuggestions as> to why, and what can be 
  done to support these women? Maureen.>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>> 
  --> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> 
  Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.>--This mailing 
  list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..
  

  


  
  
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Third time labours

[Rhonda]

   
  I have often wondered about tight clothing and support both before 
  and after birth as all the articles I have read on liposuction have all 
  said that the skin needs to b supported while it shrinks back and to help 
  this they have firm clothing and special tight fitting garments to aid in 
  the shrinking of the skin as the fat is removed and it has to shrink 
  back.  is this not the same when a baby is born - the skin has to 
  shrink back in a short amount of time even if it has had a longer 
  time to stretch.  I wish someone had suggested this after my last 
  baby - especially after a c/s.  I am sure my "sag" would not be so 
  bad had I done something like that. 
   
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, July 20, 
  2003 22:48:55
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Third time labours
   My immediate thought would be that they may have a wide 
  gap in their abdo muscles which instead of supporting the uterus 
  allows it to drop into the gap when they are upright. Of course when 
  they lie down the uterus falls back and on palp all feels OK. What 
  happens though is that with the uterus too far forward the baby is not 
  encouraged into the pelvis and hence no real stimulation of the cervix 
  to encourage prostaglandin, or oxytocin production or provide 
  mechanical dilatation. What to do is maybe encourage wearing of firm 
  undies that support the abdo. (A woman told me the other day that when 
  she had her babies in the sixties they were told to wear very firm 
  underwear that supported the stomach muscles.) Sport nicks would be 
  what I would suggest. Hope this helps and this is the sort of stuff we 
  all hold in our heads but nobody gets around to writing downAndrea 
  QuanchiOn Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 01:04 AM, Ken Ward 
  wrote:> We have recently had two women, third pregnancies, 
  experiencing > difficult> spurious labours. They have come 
  in, contracting 2/60, with what feels > like> good conts. 
  But have gotten no where. Bubs head high, no dilatation, > just 
  an> exhausted mum and very tired and puzzled support people. I have 
  done a > search> on the net, but no research seems to have 
  been done. Anecdotal evidence> suggests third pregnancies often 
  fiddle around. Anyone have any > suggestions as> to why, and 
  what can be done to support these women? Maureen.>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>> 
  --> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit 
  <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.>--This mailing list is 
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Third time labours

[Rhonda]

   
  Well you just totally quashed my desire for another child - already 
  rather worried because of my last two disaster stories, I had this 
  little bit of hope in me as my sister's all had very easy 3rd births - 
  best pregnancy and birth for all three of them and they said that the 
  third was better than the fourth and all gave me some hope that maybe if I 
  did try again it would not be so bad.  Now I am even more 
  confused as maybe the third is not always the best after all.
  Hmm.
  So I would be interested if there are any studies.
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, July 20, 
  2003 20:11:52
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Third time labours
   I too have observed this. it also happens in grand 
  multies, but i have noevidence or research. MM> We have 
  recently had two women, third pregnancies, experiencing difficult> 
  spurious labours. They have come in, contracting 2/60, with what 
  feelslike> good conts. But have gotten no where. Bubs head 
  high, no dilatation, justan> exhausted mum and very tired and 
  puzzled support people. I have done asearch> on the net, but no 
  research seems to have been done. Anecdotal evidence> suggests 
  third pregnancies often fiddle around. Anyone have anysuggestions 
  as> to why, and what can be done to support these women? 
  Maureen.>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>> 
  --> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit 
  <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.>--This mailing list is 
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[ozmidwifery] Pre eclampsia - vitamins to prevent it.

[Rhonda]

   
  A study on viamins to prevent PE.
  May be of some interest - not a lot of info really but interesting 
  theory.
   
  regards
  Rhonda.
   
  http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=571&ncid=751&e=3&u=/nm/20030715/hl_nm/health_pregnancy_dc
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Lieves story

[Rhonda]

  I have heard from Lieve and I am sure she will not mind me replying 
  on her behalf.  She has been very busy.
  Lars passed away after an operation at another hospital that had a 
  75% chance of a possitive outcome.  It was very traumatic and 
  confusing for his parents who were given some hope from this second 
  opinion.  The first hospital had predicted that Lars would quietly 
  slip into a coma and die peacefully and the second hospital said it would 
  be much more difficult for him if he remained untreated.  There was 
  an operation they could do which had a 75 % chance of a normal life.  
  They said that they had never seen a baby with his condition do so well 
  and breast feed and thrive - he was about 6 weeks of age.  The 
  parents spoke to parents were given contacts for other parents who had 
  babied who had survived the operation and decided to go ahead with 
  it.  It went well but then a few days latter they said that he was 
  failing and would not survive without the life support system.  Then 
  the parents had to decide to turn it off - Lars went peacefully in his 
  mothers arms.
  They returned him home and packed him in ice in his cot and had a few 
  days to say goodbye and have visitors over.
   
  I do hope lieve that i have relayed the story well for you.
  I do hope that Nele is doing well and kept the amazing strength that 
  she had throughout this ordeal.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, July 
  10, 2003 23:58:49
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Lieves story
   
  I was wondering too.
   
  marilyn
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Sheena Johnson 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 3:45 
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Lieves 
story

Was wondering if anyone had heard from 
Lieve and what has happened with Nele and Lars, have I missed a posting? 

 
Regards Sheena 
  Johnson
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Doctors turn against natural births for breech babies-- Courier Mail article

[Rhonda]

  WELL -  How "SELFISH" are Dr's who continue to pressure women 
  into having C/S then.  Is that not worse?!
  Rhonda -
   
  PS:  Loved your response Darren.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, June 
  25, 2003 22:04:48
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Doctors turn against natural births for breech babies-- Courier Mail 
  article
   
  This is thanks to our new Qld MC branch committee 
  member Helen Bremner we are on a roll lately...
   
  
  If you are a Queenslander please respond with a 
  letter to the editor [EMAIL PROTECTED]. 
  We need all the support we can get! This Molloy guy doesn't know what he's 
  in for by making comments like that. What a 
  %&$*%*_(!
   
  What he failed to mention was that all the Term 
  Breech Trial labours were medically managed. Leilah McCracken critiqued 
  the Hannah Study and said that 
   
  "All of the studied 
  vaginal births were medically managed- with a full 64.7%of the women 
  having their births induced or augmented with drugs, 46.3%having 
  epidurals, and 22.4% of the women having their membranes 
  artificiallyruptured (AROM). It is no wonder that the women attempting 
  vaginal birthshad labor 
  difficulties..."
   
  Cheers,
   
  Cas.
   
   
  Courier Mail, 25 June, 
  page 5
  Doctors turn against natural births for breech babiesLeanne Edmistone  Health ReporterThis 
  healthy happy baby girl was born against the odds. Stradbroke 
  Island mum Julie Philips was looking forward to the natural birth of her 
  fourth child when doctors discovered the baby was in breech presentation 
  and told her she would need a caesarean delivery unless the baby turned. 
  Despite all attempts the baby did not turn and doctors at two 
  Brisbane hospitals told Ms Phillips they would not attempt a natural 
  delivery because of risks to her baby and for medico-legal reasons. 
  Distressed, Ms Philips enlisted the help of a midwife and at 
  2.20pm on Monday, after a 6 1/2 hour home birth, her yet-to-be-named 
  daughter entered the world weighing a healthy 3798g. "It was very 
  easy, everything went very smoothly." she said yesterday, "She's a real 
  chubby bubby, she looks like her brothers."Ms Phillips's eldest 
  son Namo, 6, was also a breech baby, but turned during labour and was 
  delivered naturally, as were her three year old twins, Kiahn and Mali. 
  National Association of Specialist Gyneacologists and 
  Obstetricians  president Dr David Molloy said few doctors would 
  perform a natural delivery of a breech baby and any parents pressuring 
  doctors to do so were "selfish". Dr Mollow said a recent 
  international study was stopped after two years by a medical ethics 
  committee because results overwhelmingly showed breech babies born 
  naturally had double the risk of serious injury compared with caesarean 
  breech births.He said those results, in conjunction with the high 
  medico-legal risk, had "effectively killed off vaginal breech 
  delivery".But Ms Phillips said she and the midwife weighed up her 
  own good health, the ease of her previous labours and the baby being "in 
  the best possible" breech position - bottom first with legs extended near 
  the face, and decided to go ahead."It felt like the right thing to 
  do, the midwife was very experienced and there were no (personal) health 
  reasons not toso we decided to have the baby naturally and I'm glad we 
  did," she said.Dr Molloy, whose eldest child was a caesarean 
  breech birth, said the head was the largest body part and with a normal 
  birth, it was quickly eivident if a caesarean was necessary. He 
  said because the head came last with a breech birth, there was a high risk 
  it could become stuck and the umbilical cord could become squashed and cut 
  oxygen to the brain, neck and jaw manipulation could result in bone 
  breaks.--
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] Fw: Breast Feeding

[Rhonda]

  I guess this is a somewhat disturbing joke in a few 
  ways. 
  Rhonda.
   
  
  
  
    
  BREAST FEEDINGA woman and a baby were in the doctor's examining room, 
  waiting for the doctorto come in. The doctor arrived, examined the 
  baby, checked his weight, found it somewhat below normal, and asked if the 
  baby was breast fed or bottle fed."Breast fed", she replied."Well, 
  strip down to your waist", the doctor ordered. So she did.He pressed, 
  kneaded, rolled, cupped and pinched both breasts for a while in a 
  detailed, rigorously thorough examination. Motioning her to get dressed, 
  he said, "No wonder this baby is underweight. You don't have any 
  milk.""I know", she said, "I'm his Grandma, but I'm glad I 
  came."
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?

[Rhonda]

  Hmm - Thank you all so much.  Very interesting.  I would 
  have thought that it would have created problems with bonding and feeding 
  etc - however they probably promoted bottle feeding too??
   
  I would expect that there would also have been problems with tearing 
  and rupture etc - just thinking that the woman would have no control or 
  feeling and so would not really know when to push etc and so it would 
  interfere with the natural process.  Just my thoughts on it. 
   
  Anyone know why it stopped - I guess it was because of problems but 
  there would no doubt have been some sort of catalyst to 
stop it?
   
  Thanks Again
  Rhonda 
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, June 
  18, 2003 23:01:09
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?
   
  Queen Voctoria started it. Well, they experimented on her and it was 
  she that advocated how wonderful it was!
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 7:19 
PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] twilight 
delivery - or twilight baby?


  
  

  Hi, all of you knowledgable women,
   
  I was talking to a friend today who said that her sister in 
  law who was born in the 1940's claims to be a "twilight 
  baby"?  Apparently her mother - who has passed away now and 
  cannot explain the reason - had her first child as a natural 
  delivery - the second was this weird delivery where she went into 
  hospital on her due day not in labour  - got put to 
  sleep and then woke up having delivered the baby vaginally while 
  asleep or in twilight!  
  The next two were normal, natural births.
  Does anyone know about this practice - obviously not done now 
  days - i presume!
   
  She was curious about how it was done and why it may have 
  been done.
   
  Any ideas?
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
   
  

  


  
  
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] twilight delivery - or twilight baby?

[Rhonda]

  Hi, all of you knowledgable women,
   
  I was talking to a friend today who said that her sister in law 
  who was born in the 1940's claims to be a "twilight baby"?  
  Apparently her mother - who has passed away now and cannot explain the 
  reason - had her first child as a natural delivery - the second was this 
  weird delivery where she went into hospital on her due day not in 
  labour  - got put to sleep and then woke up having delivered the 
  baby vaginally while asleep or in twilight!  
  The next two were normal, natural births.
  Does anyone know about this practice - obviously not done now days - 
  i presume!
   
  She was curious about how it was done and why it may have been 
  done.
   
  Any ideas?
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Midwifery/birthing services Gold Coast

[Rhonda]

   
  Can't help but do give her a big hug from me and tell her to stay 
  possitive, I wish her much luck.
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, June 02, 
  2003 21:52:35
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Midwifery/birthing services Gold Coast
   
  Can anyone on the list provide me with 
  information about birthing services/choices in the Gold Coast Area for a 
  woman who has had 3 previous C/S and wanting a VBAC. 
  Carolyn
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] Possible warning??

[Rhonda]

   
  As usual not sure if this is 
  genuine but it seems that it may be.  Can't hurt to be wary 
  anyway.
   
  Just Received this from a very 
  good source and thought it was worth sharing with you.  
  Beware!!Very Urgent!!!... 
  PASS THIS ON TO ANYONE YOU HAVE AN 
  E-MAIL ADDRESS FOR. > > If you receive 
  an email titled: "It Takes Guts to Say > Jesus" 
  > DO NOT OPEN IT. It will erase everything 
  on your hard > drive. > This 
  information was announced yesterday morning from > IBM; AOL 
  states that this is a very dangerous virus, > much worse than 
  > "Melissa," and that there is NO Remedy 
  for it at this > time. Some very sick > 
  individual has succeeded in using the reformat > function 
  from Norton > Utilities > causing it to 
  completely erase all documents on the > hard drive. It 
  has been > designed to work with Netscape Navigator 
  and Microsoft > Internet Explorer. It > destroys Macintosh and IBM compatible 
  computers. > > This is a new, 
  very malicious virus and not many > people know 
  about it. Pass > this warning along to EVERYONE in your 
  address book > ! and please share it with > all your online friends ASAP so that 
  this threat maybe > stopped. Please > practice 
  cautionary measures and tell anyone that may > have 
  access to your > computer. Forward this warning to 
  everyone that you > know that might access > the Internet. > 
  > Joyce L. Bober > IBM 
  Information Systems > Pittsburgh Mailing Systems > 412 - 922-8744 > 
  Securities offered through Royal 
  Alliance Associates, Inc., registered broker/dealerMember NASD & 
  SIPC 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Message from Lynne Staff: Side-by-Side Conference

[Rhonda]

   
  Hmm -  on my callendar there are only 30 days in 
  June. 
   
  So which callendar are you working from?
   
  Just pointing that out!  *grin*
   
  regards
  rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, May 30, 
  2003 16:46:08
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Message from Lynne Staff: Side-by-Side Conference
   Hi EverybodyA quick note to remind you that the Side 
  By Side conference is on at the Noosa Lakes resort on June 31st. This conference is a day-long one, 
  with co-presentations by midwives and obstetricians about working 
  together with and for women.Topics and themes 
  include:Collaborative Care, two perspectives Lynne Staff and Ted 
  WeaverWhat Is Normal Birth? James MoirWhat should be the Correct 
  Caesarean Rate? George Bogiatzis(I can hear you all telling me the 
  answers to that one already!!!)Aligning Birth Centre Care within the 
  Medicolegal system - James OrfordAntenatal Education, Women, Midwives 
  and Obstetricians Sharing, Making a Difference - Donna 
  ThompsonWorking With Women Beyond the Birth Andrea 
  CornthwaiteWaterbirth - obstetric and paediatric experiences Andrew 
  Davidson and Tom HurleyThe Care In Partnership Program (Caseload 
  in the private sector) Irene Kinmond.Please contact Irene Kinmond 
  at Nambour Selangor Maternity Unit on 07 5450 4350 or email her on 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Looking 
  forward to seing as many of you who can comeRegards, 
  Lynne-Andrea RobertsonBirth International * ACE 
  Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Educatione-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web: 
  www.birthinternational.com--This 
  mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] diabetes

[Rhonda]

   
  Although a little annoyed about all the undue stress they had her 
  under - worrying about being induced etc, today she is a little happier as 
  they did an ultrasound to see how "fat" her baby is getting and at 32 
  weeks he is about 4.2lbs - just over 1800grams and that is NORMAL!  
  Not at all huge!
   
  All of his measurments came up as normal and she is so 
  relieved.  A pity that they had to mouth off about induction etc 
  before it was actually necessary.  
  As she said, "I am sure they take pleasure in stressing you out just 
  coz they can."
   
  It comes down to the issue of wording and manipulating women during 
  pregnancy - she has been worried and not sleeping well for the past 3 
  weeks and all for no real reason.  The stress of all the 
  possible outcomes that were predicted and told to her in a way that it was 
  final and it would happen ie:  ("We will induce you at 38 weeks 
  becuase the baby will be large, you Must go on a sspecial diet and do the 
  finger prick tests and even if you keep your blood sugar down it is likely 
  that the baby will still have associated problems."  All the 
  statements made were not only negative but they were so final and so self 
  assured.  Someone with a brain might have worded the same thing 
  -  "We will watch you and see if it is necessary to induce you at 38 
  weeks, monitoring your blood sugars will help us to work out is there is a 
  problem"  ) 
  Her stress was probably far worse than 
  her diagnosis. 
  And we wonder why an elective C/S is the easier option for 
      women?  
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, May 30, 
  2003 09:49:29
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] diabetes
   
  Dear Rhonda
  Weight gain in pregnancy is unproven and unreliable an assessment 
  tool many hospitals in Sydney and other places do not do it.
  Your freind seems to be at an infomred 
  place!Denise
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 6:16 
AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
diabetes


  
  

   
   
  I wrote about my friend a little while ago with the 
  "diagnosed" gestational Diabetes and they had said they were going 
  to book her to be induced at 38 weeks.
   
  Just an amusing update for you
   
  Today she said that they had rung and asked for her 
  blood test results for the past couple of weeks and when she read 
  them out they replied, "Oh they are good - maybe you don't have 
  diabetes after all?"
   
  She was a little confused and cross at being told to do 
  finger pricks which she hates - 3 times a day for nothing.  
  LOL
   
  After all of the info I gave her from you and then they say 
  that.  All i could say was - well I guess that is why the 
  test is not that good.
   
  Then,  last time she was weighed - at 31 weeks she had 
  only gained 2kgs duering the pregnancy (Fundus is fine and Baby 
  appears healthy.) 
  But, they are now saying she should be gaining weight and she 
  is so confused.  On one hand they have her on a diet and the 
  other they are saying to eat more.   How to totally 
  confuse someone who is used to being able to eat what she wants 
  and how much she wants.
   
  She is not overweight but is also not really skinny or 
  unhealthy -  she looks healthy - a little tired but that is 
  about all.
   
  It really is such a cattle yard mentallity - the public 
  system!
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
   
  

  


  
  
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] diabetes

[Rhonda]

   
   
  I wrote about my friend a little while ago with the "diagnosed" 
  gestational Diabetes and they had said they were going to book her to be 
  induced at 38 weeks.
   
  Just an amusing update for you
   
  Today she said that they had rung and asked for her blood 
  test results for the past couple of weeks and when she read them out they 
  replied, "Oh they are good - maybe you don't have diabetes after 
  all?"
   
  She was a little confused and cross at being told to do finger pricks 
  which she hates - 3 times a day for nothing.  LOL
   
  After all of the info I gave her from you and then they say 
  that.  All i could say was - well I guess that is why the test is not 
  that good.
   
  Then,  last time she was weighed - at 31 weeks she had only 
  gained 2kgs duering the pregnancy (Fundus is fine and Baby appears 
  healthy.) 
  But, they are now saying she should be gaining weight and she is so 
  confused.  On one hand they have her on a diet and the other they are 
  saying to eat more.   How to totally confuse someone who is used 
  to being able to eat what she wants and how much she wants.
   
  She is not overweight but is also not really skinny or unhealthy 
  -  she looks healthy - a little tired but that is about all.
   
  It really is such a cattle yard mentallity - the public system!
       
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] do prems have prems?

[Rhonda]

   
  I don't think it is that simple - Why was she prem?  What was 
  the problem?  sometimes there are things that are passed on through 
  heredity and others are socio economic or other factors that may cause a 
  baby to be prem. 
  IE:  I had my daughter prem at 27 weeks due to severe Pre 
  eclampsia 
  She may be predisposed to having high BP and even getting Pre 
  Eclampsia but maybe not so early she may get it during labour at 38 weeks 
  or something like that or not at all - you just never know.  As I had 
  a reaction to medication in early pregnancy which I am sure brought 
  it on early for me as I was so sick.  My Mum had pre eclampsia with 
  me but went to term with lots of bed rest.   
  So it really is a lot of factors even diet - we know a lot more today 
  about diet and there are actual illnesses which cause premature birth and 
  miscarriage that can be treated with dietry supliments like increased 
  folic acid etc.
  So I would be finding out a lot more about why she was born premature 
  and then look at ways to reassure her by assisting her to have a healthy 
  diet etc.
   
  There is a site which may be able to help more - 'Austprem'
   
  where you may get more help from people with prem babies - I don't 
  know if any of them were prem themselves - I don't think so.  Which 
  sort of disproves her theory a bit as there are Mum's from all over 
  australia who have had prem babies for many reasons and I am guessing that 
  none were prem themselves.  
  The Austprem list may help though.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 03 
  April 2003 09:55:54 PM
  To: Ozmid
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  do prems have prems?
   
  Greetings wise people,
   
  I'm hoping that someone can answer my question, One of the women that I'm 
  involved with was born three months premature as was her brother. 
  
  She seems convinced that her first baby is 
  going to come early. My Question is, If you were a prem baby does it mean 
  that you have a higher chance of having a prem baby your self?  
  
  I need to support her and I cant find any 
  evidence or information on this anywhere. 
  Thankyou in anticipation, 
  Julie'',
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] nappy rash

[Rhonda]

   
  Get a bottle of Fluid Magnesium from the Chemist and add about 5 ml 
  to drinks or milk - twice a day it neutralises the acid and prevents the 
  rash while teething. My Boy used to scream with oain he was so bad and it 
  totally fixed him.  A very old one from my mother inlaw!
  Safe for all ages!  Doesn't give them the runs either - only 
  give a tiny bit but it is like a mirracle.  So fast working - you 
  will of course need to treat the rash but the fluid 
  magnesium prevents it happening or getting worse.
  Or Fluid of Magnesium
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 03 
  April 2003 06:23:35 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  nappy rash
   Hi, not especially mid related - but - if anybody has any 
  brilliant ideas for this next prob it would be great. All of my babies 
  have pretty healthy bums, but when they are teething have the most 
  shocking nappy rash. My 23 month old is currently suffering, not potty 
  trained yet - but the poor thing has tiny bits of flesh coming off at 
  times. Looks like somebody used super-dooper sandpaper!!We 
  cope with zinc cream,Vit E cream, paw-paw ointment, sunshine, and panadol 
  when he's really distraught. Anything else we can 
  use??Cheryl_MSN 
  Instant Messenger now available on Australian mobile phones. Go to 
  http://ninemsn.com.au/mobilecentral/hotmail_messenger.asp--This 
  mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Story of love and warmth

[Rhonda]

   
  Dearest Leive,
   
  You have been in my thoughts for the past two days and I am just 
  writing to let you know that i am thinking of you and too see how things 
  are going.
   
  Hope all is well
   
  Regards 
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, 22 
  March 2003 08:52:37 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Story of love and warmth
   Dear friends,Thank you all for your replys, I 
  read them all carefully and I really feelsupported by 
  them.Lynn, my heart is with you and the family of the stillborn 
  baby. During thepregnancy I had a lot of conversations with Nele and 
  she felt verysupported and comforted when I told her that I believe 
  that no life iswithout purpose, how long of how short it will take. 
  Nobody knows whatlessons we have to learn, but maybe for those little 
  baby's that are sowelcome but do not have much time, the feeling of 
  being welcome is the onlything they have to learn.Julie, you 
  spoke af a sad pathway, I don't feel it that way. When you cansee what 
  happens in these family, the changings of the peoples thinkingabout 
  quality of live and the gratefullness of every minute they 
  havetogether, I feel not sad at the end. There are moments of tears 
  but thegreat picture is happiness.Pinky, I gave your text 'the 
  child God lent' to the parents and they weretouched by it. They give 
  him to read to every visitor. It explains very goodwhat they (and I) 
  feel, even they are not very religieus.Debby, I think the memories 
  of your own child come very clear again whenreading all those 
  postings. It's so good you can now celebrate the being ofyour son in 
  stead of grieving the loss.Thanks Tina, Janet, Sally, Sandy, 
  Marilyn, Denise, Margie, Mary, Aviva,Megan and Robin, also for your 
  warm replys full of support and usefulladvice.Rhonda, I kept 
  you last. Thank you so much for the poem you wrote. I gave itto the 
  parents and they were very touched and they let it read to 
  everybodythat comes near. I truly hope that the lovecircle that Lars 
  created will becounterweight against all the violence of the war.I 
  plan to write his story for the Flamish journal for midwifes. I would 
  askyou if I can use your poem to illustrate my 
  story?Meanwhile, Lars is happy and triving. He already passed 
  his birthweight. Theparents went walking to the cityhall, with Lars in 
  a sleng to make his birthofficial. They are really greatfull for the 
  moments they have, every day isa milestone. Some reactions of 
  people are not so nice to the parents. There are stillpeople (thos who 
  didn't see Lars) that wonder if an abortion wasn't been abetter 
  option. But Nele and Frederik are laughing with those reactions, 
  theyknow they made the right decision.For me, the week was 
  hard, but also very rich. So many people are around usto support. The 
  mothers of the birthcentre are very involved. They arevisiting Nele 
  and they call me to ask how I am. It's a real circle I dreamtof when I 
  started the birthcentre. The midwife that cares and the mothersthat 
  care for the midwife, it creats a balance for everybody. When you 
  wrotea book about it nowbody would believe it can be real 
  :-))Warm hugsLieve--This mailing 
  list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] repeat cs candidates

[Rhonda]

  I was talking to a woman the other day who is booked in for a second 
  C/S because - she is having her tubes tied at the same time.  Easier 
  that way!
  Her first was booked due to 'disproportion' and so she was booked in 
  as soon as she fell pregnant although they have given her 4 different due 
  dates so she is hoping that they have booked the c/s soon enough --
  "Gee, If I have one contraction with this one I will be so 
  cross.  I didn't have any with the last and if they are wrong and I 
  go into labour I will be really pissed off!"  
   
  I was a little taken back by her attitude and pointed out that i 
  had wanted to deliver my son and that labour wasn't as bad as a c/s and 
  she sort of grunted about this being easier and having her tubes tied 
  being her main reason.
   
  "Once the baby is born they can do a full hysterectomy for all I care 
  just so long as I don't have any more!"
   
  I guess it has all been said before but I thought that the tubes tied 
  as the reason was a bit of a convenient reason - can't they do that 
  through keyhole surgery latter?  Had they told her that it was not a 
  great big cut if she went back for that? I wonder what advice she was 
  given and what sort of facts they presented her with?
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, 29 
  March 2003 07:30:47 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  repeat cs candidates
   I come across a number of women whom have had more than 
  one cs and when Italk to them about the risks of repeat cs, the ones 
  who don't go off mad atme for bringing it up, say that their concerns 
  are for the babies safetyonly. I find this incredible that they firmly 
  believe that a cs is saferfor child. When I ask about respiratory 
  disorder and so on, their responseis that they would prefer baby to be 
  in a nursery for a few hours formonitoring for breathing problems 
  rather than neo-natal intensive care unitfor weeks/ months with brain 
  damage. They seriously believe that an eventlike that is common with 
  vaginal births! Mind you, if you look at ourAustralian society's 
  attitude towards birth being fraught with danger, it iseasy to 
  understand how these women think that it is true.When asked about the 
  risks to themselves, they say things such as "I am onlyhaving one/two 
  child/ren anyway" or they would prefer to have a cut ontheir tummies 
  rather than a huge tear from their vaginas to theiranusagain 
  skewed view points showing through. (I usually say "well Ican tell you 
  19 staples in the tummy hurts like hell" "what do you meanstaples???" 
  but now it is a dissolvable stich in many cases so it is evenmore 
  trivialised by some care providers)Not really saying anything you guys 
  haven't already heard but just thought Iwould put the anecdotal 
  information that I have come across with CARES.How many hospitals 
  have a cs antenatal class?How many have VBAC classes?I 
  have had a discussion with Marc Keirse (effective care) about 
  introducingVBAC models of care (in the form of VBAC clinics eg) 
  however his firstthoughts were that it would marginalise VBAC. But my 
  retort was that we arealready marginalised as high risk (no birth 
  centre, continuous monitoringtime restrictions etc) but if we were 
  cared for by educated supportive andcaring care providers who focus on 
  our 99.7% chance of our scar rupturingand not the 0.3% that it could, 
  then being marginalised would be a goodthing.Any thoughts on this 
  suggestion?Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAwww.cares-sa.org.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 
  6918birth with trust, faith & love...- Original Message 
  -From: "Lois Wattis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:14 AMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] risks of 
  4th c/s and support for artificialfeeding> Dear Lynne 
  and others on this subject> I agree this information needs to be 
  given to women antenatally inwhatever> location they can be 
  accessed. Problem is, women planning C.S. forwhatever> reason 
  frequently don't attend any antenatal education because 
  theyconsider> they do not need it (not planning labour), so 
  they are missed. Theirtotal> exposure to 'education' is what 
  they get from the ob (!!!) usually scantat> 
  best.>> Another common situation is that they are not 
  'planning' another pregnancy> so discount the poten

Re: [ozmidwifery] emotional reactions to cs

[Rhonda]

   
  Not a study but from my own observations and experience -
   
  There seems to be far less trauma after a c/s that is medically 
  necessitated than one that is "just in case something goes wrong" or "for 
  unreasonable obstetric reasons"
   
  My first c/s at 27 weeks due to severe Pre Eclampsia was not an issue 
  for me as I was so ill I was dying and as soon as the baby went into 
  distress I was able to understand the reason, the medical necessity and 
  cope with it.
   
  I was severely traumatised by my second c/s as I was well, my baby 
  was not in distress, I was not clear on why it was needed - if it was at 
  all.
  I was told that the dr had better things to do than wait for me to 
  deliver, conflicting advise from ob's and midwives and 
  others.  Made it even more traumatic.
   
  The other thing that increases trauma and feelings of failure 
  are terms like 
   
  "she had an incompetant cervix."
  "she wasn't coping with labour"
  etc...
   
  George got up - have to go.  Hope that helps a bit. 
   
  I guess if women were treated with a little more respect and had 
  things explained a little more clearly thent hey would not be so 
      traumatised.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, 21 March 
  2003 01:02:50 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cc: c-aware list
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  emotional reactions to cs
   
  Does anyone have any ideas on studies that 
  have looked at methods to decrease chances of adverse psychological 
  reactions to cs in the immediate post natal period?
  Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES 
  SAwww.cares-sa.org.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8388 
  6918birth with trust, faith & love...
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] To Lieve.

[Rhonda]

  Lieve - 
  perhaps you can give this to Lars' parents when the time is 
  right.
  You have given him so much in sharing his story with so many - 
  his life has touched so many that he has had a truely blessed life.
   
  Love to you 
  Rhonda.
   
  
  For Lars.
  The time you spend, the things you do, 
  They do not last and this is true.
  The love you have and the ones you touch,
  That is where it means so much.
   
  A little baby not so old was born unto 
  this world we’re told.
  His heart is weak - his soul so strong, 
  Not destined for this world too long.
  His name is Lars - far away he lies, 
  Alive and happy until he dies.
   
  When he decides to move along. 
  The love for him will linger on.
  In his short visit you should know,
  His plight caused many tears to flow, 
  Warm tears of love to help him grow.
   
  This war torn world so full of hate 
  is not the place to be.
  For one so special and so loved, 
  his parents brave as they can be,
  Will say goodbye but they must know,
  The memory of him will never ever go.
   
  People whom they will never know 
  will think of him at times.
  For years to come his life will touch 
  ever so many lives.
   
  The time you spend, the things you do,
  They do not last but this is true.
  The souls you touch, they mean a lot,
  What a wonderful life he really got.
   
  Rhonda Polley 
  March 2003
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together

[Rhonda]

   
  Dear Leive,
   
  What a truely heartwarming story of bravery and love.  I do hope 
  that little Lars has some time to get to know his parents and to love 
  and be loved by them.  Every moment is such a blessing.
   
  I have a friend who has a child who was sent home at 1 yr old to have 
  her first birthday and die.  They said if she did not die she would 
  be a vegetable!
  (after being born at 27 weeks and a healthy baby - was sent to the 
  childrens ward by accident and contracted a virus which almost killed her 
  - after being ventilated for almost one yr with severe lung damage 
  she had only 20% lung capacity left.)
  She is now 9 yrs old and has 36% lung capacity and is still on Oxygen 
  but 
  does have a few hours a day at school with no oxygen which is 
  amazing.
  Every yr the Dr's tell her parents that she will not see out the 
  winter. Yet she is still alive against all odds.  She is small 
  and weighs only 18kgs but goes to school and does Ballet!
  They have said that if and when she becomes a teenager she will be 
  given a double lung, heart transplant but as they only do about 4 of these 
  in Australia per year the prognosis is poor.
   
  And her mother said to me that when she asks if she is going to die 
  they tell her she is but just because you are sick does not mean you 
  will die as other people die from accidents and things - anyone can die at 
  any time.  
  They look at each moment as a blessing - which it is.
   
  All the best to you and your very brave family who have been blessed 
  with such a speacial baby.
   
  Rhonda
   
   
   
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, 17 March 
  2003 08:25:38 PM
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] When birth and death come together
   Love and strength to you lieve,There are many of 
  us thinking of Lars,his family and you at the moment and Ithink that 
  there is good power in that.We send our blessings from afar and wish 
  we could give you a hug,Julie.- Original Message 
  -From: "Lieve Huybrechts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Monday, March 17, 2003 8:36 AMSubject: [ozmidwifery] When birth and 
  death come together> Dear friends,>> For 
  those that weren't at the list at my first posting:> When Nele was 
  22 weeks pregnant, ultrasound showed a severe heartdefect.The> 
  baby wouldn't have any chance to live and was inoperable. They 
  already> choose for a homebirth. Against a lot of advice to quit 
  the pregnancy at> that time, they choose to give the baby the life 
  he could have. Theystayed> with their choice for 
  homebirth.>> Nele gave birth today to a beautifull son Lars. 
  She had a very fast labor> and birth. There were a lot of emotions 
  involved. We didn't know beforehow> the baby would react and 
  how much time we would have with him. I have> beautifull 
  videomoments. The first half hour the mother stayed in 
  bad,where> Lars was born, we didn't dare to transfer her to the 
  coach. Lars startedto> suckle his tumb and apgar stayed 9. So 
  we moved to the coach and there he> started breastfeeding.> 
  After a while they called the family and asked to come and see the 
  baby.You> know most of the people advised to quit the pregnancy 
  as soon as they knew> the baby couldn't live long. It was 
  beautifull to see how they reacted on> the baby and started to love 
  him.> Now he lives already for 11 hours. He slept a while and drank 
  again. His> colour stays a little blueish, but not so bad. We don't 
  know how long he> stays like that. The parents are happy and 
  enjoying the baby, althoughthey> are very realistic. His older 
  brother is at home to and talking to and> cuddling the 
  baby.> Tomorrow we will have to think again. What do we have to do 
  when he staysin> the same good condition? Do we have to go to 
  the hospital? What willhappen> there? What is the best thing to 
  do?> It was a strange day, I enjoyed the beautifull birth and the 
  happiness of> the parents between our tears of knowing we will have 
  to let him go again.> It will be a strange night. I am home now, 
  they live in my street, two> minutes walking. It will be a strange 
  day tomorrow, I don't know what will> come.>> Thank 
  you all for being there and listen> Lieve>> 
  --> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.> Visit 
  &

Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!

[Rhonda]

   
  Hi Pinky,
   
  Eat lots of apples too they will help to cleanse your system a 
  bit.  Hope all goes well for you.
   
  What you are saying about the isolation is so very true and it has 
  got to a point where people are too afraid to offer help -
  A - just in case the Mother feels that you think she is not coping - 
  don't want to offend her.
  B - Just in case she is in so much need of help that you can't help 
  enough 
  C - To interfere with things may look rude.
   
  The compasion and support mothers used to give each other is 
  gone
  The understanding is not there - it is all very competative (The 
  media has a lot to answer for here)  Having the perfectly behaved 
  toddler and a baby that sleep all night and a child who doesn't answer 
  back is all importnant.
  The normal things like answering back and sibling rivalry have been 
  pulled apart and disected and analised so much that there are so many 
  experts who say don't smack, don't yell, don't be emotional about 
  parenting - Don't molly codle and over cuddle - -They have forgoten to say 
  any Do's.
   
  My mother said to me when i rang her absolutely bursting with joy - I 
  had held my 2 week old prem baby for 10 mins (her first cuddle), I was so 
  happy and I said - "I didn't want to put her back." My Mum's reply 
  was, "Oh Now then - you will spoil her!"  I was horrified - I was 
  being judged as a bad mother (to spoil my child who was 2 weeks old) 
  I already had guilt feeling of having to have her torn from my 
  stomach at 27 weeks because i had failed at carrying her to term and 
  she had been on ventilators and close to death and was still 
  seriously ill in NICU and then a 10 min cuddle which I didn't want to ever 
  end was going to spoil her.  How could I ever pick her up again 
  without wondering if that was going to be too much. 
  Then each time I sat and expressed there was a poster can't remember 
  the exact words - it had a photo of a woman with her baby in a sling and 
  said how women in Africa carry their babies on their backs and at the 
  breast all day in slings - their babies hardly ever cry and grow to 
  be very secure children  - How can we help our babies not to cry so 
  much?  This poster touched me and I realised at that point that no 
  amount of cuddles could spoil a child.  
  I would look at that and decided then that I would never leave my 
  baby to cry itself to sleep alone.  
   
  So maybe more women need to be reminded of that simple fact!
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, March 
  15, 2003 17:57:21
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
      [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!
   
  Hi Rhonda
   
   yes you are lucky to be away from the chemicals and smog -youve 
  got me thinking - 2 emergency hospital visits in two weeks for allergic 
  reactions to food - I bet my whole system is overloaded -am eating veges 
  and rice til I see an allergy spec next week. 
   
  I do remember working with mothercraft nurses (actually Karitane 
  nurses as they were called in New Zealand way back then - dont know if NZ 
  still has them) -great help to mums.
   
  Guess its another case of economic rationalism gone silly - maybe 
  with the help early mums wouldnt all end up in sleep schools. I just 
  visited my daughters friend in Private hosp with new bub last week and 
  thought how isolated she really was in her flash single room watching TV - 
  notice on the wall announced the times to watch the parenting video -I 
  guess that was done in isolation too. Perhaps that is what some mums want 
  but by being so separate from other women how do they role model ie from 
  more experienced mums/ get a taste of sharing experiences and 
  feelings/ how do they know their own feelings are normal ? 
   
  Also just realised last night that I have been taking family members 
  to a psychiatrist for the past almost 5 years (same guy) this guy is 
  probably a fine medical Dr but he is also director of a mother baby unit 
  so psecialises in PND - My lightbulb moment was that not once in all this 
  time has he asked me "how are YOU managing? What support do you have? " 
  Makes me wonder whether mums are simply offered babytraining as a cure or 
  whether they are actually shown how to develop a support network -and how 
  vital this is.
   
  Pinky
   
   
  
- Original Message 

Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!

[Rhonda]

  This is all since the Mothercraft nurses were taken out of the 
  hospital system - our training was nothing like nursing and we did 
  look at these sleep schools and see the dangers of it all.  They were 
  just sort of starting up when i was studying and we  looked at 
  times where they were and were not appropriate... and the support that 
  parents needed and were not getting from the Health system - i found with 
  my son even the infant welfare Nurse was hard to get to and not much help 
  to me.  
    The support often given in the hospital by the 
  Mothercraft who did not have the nursing duties and who specialised in 
  helping mothers to do all the things that - I was never ever shown by a 
  nurse during my hospital stay but taught many mothers during my training 
  and i guess many other Mothers are not told or shown these things as the 
  nurses I worked with had no idea - I had to teach one nurse how to bath a 
  baby (she was working there and I was the student!)
   
  Unfortunately the basic mothercraft training is not even done 
  anymore.
   
  I guess most people I know have had me to get in their ear about how 
  normal their kids are and how to chill out and enjoy their babies 
  etc.
   
  And I am glad to live in the country and away from the stench of 
  Melbourne - the smog and chemicals in the air cannot be healthy for 
  anyone. LOL
   
  regards
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, March 
  15, 2003 14:33:45
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!
   
  You obviously dont live in Melbourne, Rhonda - fully booked "sleep 
  schools" not only show the lack of confidence women have in their own 
  ability, but perpetuate these feelings of inadequacy - that babies 
  "should" behave / sleep whatever and therefore mothers must follow 
  these awful perescriptive regimes - While I hear from mothers who 
  have "failed " sleep school, I also keep hearing from professionals 
  who believe they are saving large numbers of families who are "falling 
  apart" due to sleep deprivation by sending them to "sleep school" some of 
  these babies are VERY young. I would be interested in a followup study - I 
  am sure all mothers need support -perhaps more doulas would be an 
  answer -not the sleep training kind!
  
I am saddened that the maternal instinct 
to respond to babies is being so clouded by these myths of the 
sleeping baby - and that publishers keep the myth alive.
 
Pinky
 
www.pinky-mychild.com
 
    I- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 10:51 
PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure 
to sleep through the night"!!!


  
  

   
  I guess some women listen to it all but just as well most 
  mothers laugh at the "professionals" and complain about the nurse 
  saying this or the dr saying that - what would they know 
etc.
  Pity that it seems to be that way - but from what I hear on 
  the street ( at school and playgroup etc) women walk out of 
  hospital totally confused thinking that the Nurses, Midwives and 
  Dr's are all off a different planet and have no idea about the 
  reality of being a parent.  Not all - as there are always 
      exceptions but many!
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, 
  March 14, 2003 17:28:28
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!
   
  I was just flicking through the latest ANF 
  Journal before chucking it out when the title "Frequent feeding 
  clue to disrupted infant sleep"!! It was published in the 
  "Archives of Disease in Childhood" by M. Nikoloulou and I. St. 
  James-Roberts. These researchers identified "at risk" infants 
  during their first week of life which put them at risk of failing 
  to sleep through the night at 12 weeks of age!! Talk about turn 
  normal physiology into an abnormality. They say that babies that 
  feed more th

Re: [ozmidwifery] "failure to sleep through the night"!!!

[Rhonda]

   
  I guess some women listen to it all but just as well most mothers 
  laugh at the "professionals" and complain about the nurse saying this or 
  the dr saying that - what would they know etc.
  Pity that it seems to be that way - but from what I hear on the 
  street ( at school and playgroup etc) women walk out of hospital totally 
  confused thinking that the Nurses, Midwives and Dr's are all off a 
  different planet and have no idea about the reality of being a 
  parent.  Not all - as there are always exceptions but many!
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, March 14, 
  2003 17:28:28
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  "failure to sleep through the night"!!!
   
  I was just flicking through the latest ANF Journal 
  before chucking it out when the title "Frequent feeding clue to disrupted 
  infant sleep"!! It was published in the "Archives of Disease in Childhood" 
  by M. Nikoloulou and I. St. James-Roberts. These researchers identified 
  "at risk" infants during their first week of life which put them at risk 
  of failing to sleep through the night at 12 weeks of age!! Talk about turn 
  normal physiology into an abnormality. They say that babies that feed more 
  than 11 times per day at 1 week were 2.7 times more likely not to sleep 
  through. Duh, aren't they supposed to be feeding frequently. There is no 
  mention of the failure to thrive rate between the "control" group and 
  the"behaviour program group". This program included maximising the 
  difference between day and night, avoinding feeding and cuddling at night 
  and from the age of three weeks gradually delaying feeds when the baby 
  awoke at night!! 
  When will sense prevail. Those poor women out there, 
  they must be so confused with nurses now taking that line.
  Just annoyed
  Jackie
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Always Greener

[Rhonda]

   
  All i can say is what is what i said after my horrible hospital birth 
  -
   
  "I was nicer to the cows when turning and pulling out a calf in the 
  middle of a paddock at 9pm than the ob. was to me all day in 
  hospital.  I was kinder, more polite and more caring." 
   
  That says it all - I think I would rather a farmer than an 
  Obstetrician.
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, March 10, 
  2003 10:35:09
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Always Greener
   
  The episode last night of an unplanned homebirth 
  (due to a car not starting  to get them to hospital) was not too bad 
  considering the crappy way most births are portrayed on T.V. 
  My 2 gripes are: Childbirth is not a great time 
  for cow jokes,  and unmedicated women don't need to be told to 
  push!
  I often think that the main function of antenatal 
  classes is to undo all the bad messages that women get from T.V. and 
  magazines.
  Christina.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] studing and baby

[Rhonda]

   
  WELL DONE!!!
  You should be very rpoud of yourself!!
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, March 
  01, 2003 02:16:28
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  studing and baby
   
  It is really hard studying and having a baby at 
  the same time, but it can be done.  I had my son at the end of my 
  first year at Uni studying my undergraduate degree and went back 3 weeks 
  after he was born  Being a single parent didn't help and I got alot 
  of people saying to me "Now you will have to either quit your course or 
  take a year off."  I was very lucky to have a fantastic and 
  supportive head of nursing (she was a midwife!), who said I could bring 
  him to lectures and made a room where I could breastfeed and change 
  him.  I only took up the offer a couple of times 
  when I didn't have a babysitter but the times I did he wasn't a 
  problem. I remember going to lectures then racing back to my babysitters 
  house during lecture breaks with full leaking breasts, feeding him then 
  racing back to attend more lectures.  I have photos where I am 
  breastfeeding, studing and eating dinner all at once.  Night feeds 
  were done in bed half asleep.  Hard at first but then we both got 
  into the routine and I breastfed him for 2 years.  I didn't 
  take him to lectures because I couldn't concentrate because I was so 
  focused on him and afraid that any noise he made would disrupt the class 
  so I found it more benefical to go during lecture breaks to the 
  babysitters.
  I guess it all comes down to support and working 
  out ways that work for you, and always keeping in mind your goals.  
  He has just turned 5 and I have just finished my Graduate Diploma of 
  Midwifery which was my goal.  We have both survived!
   
  Veronica
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 
10:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Today in 
Parliament...
In a message dated 2/26/03 3:53:33 PM W. Australia 
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
My daughters friend who is due to have a baby in the next 
  few days -and is enrolled to start a doctorate in psychology at Melb 
  uni has been told by her supervisors that she is under no 
  circumstances to BRING a BABY to lectures. -these damn babies must be 
  so disruptive -how are women meant to live their lives??And when they are psychology lecturers who dont get 
  the motherbaby bond what hope is there??I have just started a Grad Dip Ed at Uni, and one 
of my fellow students has a baby of (I guess) around 8 weeks old.  
She BF's in the lectures but I have to admit that when baby starts 
crying it is quite disruptive, and very difficult to hear the lecturer 
(it is quite a large theatre).  Mum takes baby out when he starts 
crying, but then, of course, she misses out on what's been said.  I 
am in awe of her, when my kids were that age, I was still trying to get 
my head around getting out and about let alone thinking of doing a Grad 
Dip.Debbie SlaterPerth, WA 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] night nappies

[Rhonda]

  The alarm I had was a big black plastic sort of sheet that went under 
  the bedsheet and hooked up to a black box with a red light on the top and 
  a few switches which I learnt how to use.  I had to set it and switch 
  it on and off - it was entirely my responsibility - it 
  only activated when it got wet.   And then I had to get up 
  - wake mum and dad, get them to measure the wet spot and record it on a 
  chart then change the bed - it was a big thing for a 5 - 6 yr old and as 
  the wet spot got smaller it was a form of reassurance that it was working 
  as it woke me more easily.  Mum said after 10 nights I didn't wet and 
  after 14 nights they took it off but kept it for another week or so just 
  to make sure I didn't go backwards.  I was just a very heavy sleeper 
  and didn't wake easily and did not know I was wetting, by the end of two 
  weeks I was waking when I needed to go so it did the trick.   I 
  didn't dream or even have any idea that i was wetting the bed - would just 
  wake up wet but by the last few times the machine went off I was 
  dreaming just before the alarm so I guess the dreaming is the pre waking 
  stage  - which would indicate to me that a child who is dreaming of 
  the toilet would be getting closer to being able to wake at night 
  than a child who is not dreaming and has no idea they are wetting at 
  all.  I was for the most part just SOUND asleep and so the machine 
  was probably a good tool in my case.  I am wondering if being the 
  youngest of 4 girls made me a sound sleeper right from the start - as I 
  would have had to sleep through their noise, they were 3, 4 and 5 yrs 
  older than me.
  My children don't wet the bed but they are light sleepers and wake 
  easily.  George only wets when really really tired.  So that may 
  have something to do with it too.
   
  Apart from me hating alarms which I can deal with -  it did 
   work well.  However, my mum insisted on showing all the friends 
  and relatives who visited during the two weeks (I am sure there were more 
  than usual too) this big machine in my bedroom to stop me wetting the bed 
  which was highly embarrasing so I think if using something like this if it 
  is your little secret it would be much better than embarrasing the 
  child.
   
  I guess it had an impact as I still have a very clear and detailed 
  memory of it.  
   
  Regards  and again good luck!!
  Rhonda.  
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, February 
  28, 2003 21:09:10
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] night nappies
   
  Helen
   
  I had two brothers who both remember 
  putting their own nappies on and were not dry at night until they were 6 
  or 7, so when my son was still in nappies at 5 years old I was not 
  concerned. I believe there are various treatments out there, but my 
  philosophy was to wait and see. I certainly didn't want to change wet 
  beds, too much trouble, so I went on putting on nappies until the day we 
  had to consider what to do about a school camp. Then I went to the chemist 
  and hired an alarm that fitted into the underpants and went off when the 
  child wet himself. Unfortunately or fortunately I'm not sure which, he 
  sweated a lot and set the alarm off, this woke him up and he went to the 
  toilet. After about a week he told me he was sick of the alarm and he 
  would wake up on his own thank you very much, and he did.
   
  This is probably not much help to you but 
  it is quite common I believe. Do what you and your son are most 
  comfortable with. I am sure you will get lots of advice from the 
  list
   
  Regards Sheena Johnson
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Channel nine BF in Public poll

[Rhonda]

   
  I heard thios morning on the radio that her Mother is being paid to 
  answer phones and meet the public etc and now they are questioning how 
  much time Grandma spends looking after the baby.
  How an 11 day old baby can cause so much fuss.  My goodness it 
  says a lot doesn't it.
   
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, February 
  28, 2003 02:53:17
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Channel nine BF in Public poll
   
  Now the results say more people are opposed 
  to bf -by a couple of thousand -
  Pinky
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Marilyn Kleidon 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 
4:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Channel 
nine BF in Public poll

Well now the majority are opposed. Again 
the question is: Are you opposed to breastfeeding in public?  
Y/N.
 
marilyn

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Graham & Helen 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 
  2003 5:41 PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Channel 
  nine BF in Public poll
  
  Hi 
  Just noticed the latest channel nine, 
  on-line poll is related to approval of breastfeeding in public, 
  presumably because of the Kirsty in Parliament case.  When I 
  voted just now, the results were discouraging.  At least 40% 
  of voters were opposed to breastfeeding in 
  public.  Might be worth everyone here putting in a vote to push 
  the point at www.news.ninemsn.com.au 
  
   
  Cheers
   
  Helen Cahill
   
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] BF in public

[Rhonda]

   
  As regards to parliment and babies my husband did make one small 
  comment which was - "If they let her bring the child in no matter what age 
  then they need to have a cut off - otherwise everyone who couldn't get 
  childcare or had a sick child or was breast feeding a 2 or 3 yr old could 
  then bring their children and the place would end up like a creche.  
  Can you imagine 20 children running about parliment." 
  So they do have to have a cut off and as they don't have any 
  guidelines they had to refuse her or it would set a precident.
   
  I guess that is a valid point!  Breastfeeding aside - had she 
  taken the baby in not feeding it then it would not have been an issue when 
  they threw her out.  Where is the difference?
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, February 
  28, 2003 02:47:27
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  BF in public
   I have absolutely no problem with BF'ing in 
  public.  I have done so, and would be appalled if anyone suggested 
  that i should hide myself away in a toilet to b feed.  We had a 
  similar furore in the UK some years back when someone tried to BF in 
  public in the Palace of Westminster.But I have to say, and I hope 
  that people will not take this the wrong way, that sometimes a very young 
  baby can make things difficult in public places.I have just 
  started a Grad Dip Ed, and there is a fellow student with a young baby at 
  lectures.  She breastfeeds the baby in lectures, and nobody bats an 
  eyelid.  But, occasionally, the baby wakes up (as they are wont to 
  do), and cries (actually sometimes bawls) away.  It is very 
  distracting when you are trying to hear what is being said (sometimes I 
  can't hear at all), but the crying obscures it all, and I find myself 
  thinking that I wish she would take the baby out.  Actually that is 
  what she does, but then I remind myself that Mum is missing out on her 
  lecture. What I supose I'm trying to say is that we should 
  distinguish between the BF, and what having a newborn baby (with all that 
  that entails) means in terms of placing certian restrictions on what we 
  can do - but that maybe some people don't/ can't make that 
  distinction.  BF in public is fine, and should be 
  encouraged.  But, sometimes young babies, and - for example - sitting 
  in parliament, don't mix.  Not because we shouldn't bfeed, but 
  because having a baby places demands on us - as mothers, and society - 
  that mean that we can't take our usual place.  I have put off 
  doing my studies because I felt that very young babies, and certain 
  activities, such as attending lectures, didn't really dovetail.  
  Debbie SlaterPerth, WA
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] Re: parenting! dummies & bedwetting etc...

[Rhonda]

  Belinda,
   
  The statement you made "we should judge less and support more."  
  is so very true.
   
  I find that in almost all womens groups you have women comparing each 
  others children - how long they breast fed, how wonderful their childbirth 
  experience was, how smart the child is , how badly behaved so and so's 
  child is etc etc...  It is very very competative and if you don't fit 
  in with the group you are with then you are outcast.
   
  I found I was in a mothers group at our health center after George 
  was born and all of them had natural deliveries and all of them had 
  wonderful labours in spa baths and drinking wine and it was alls o 
  lovely.  I had the delivery from hell and the abuse by a dominating 
  bastard obstetrician and then after 24hours abuse a c/s to top it 
  off.  So i became the outcast member of the group.  With 
  comments like, 'Oh remember how it felt when the head came out? - Oh 
  sorry, you wouldn't undertstand!"  And so on.  It actually made 
  me feel like a bad mother from the start.  So I just didn't go back 
  after a few attempts to fit in I quit.
   
  It is the same if all the babies have dummies and yours doesn't or 
  none of them do and your's does,  with breastfeeding, toilet 
  training, bedwetting etc.. 
  Why is there so little understanding that ALL CHILDREN ARE DIFFERENT 
  and there is no wrong and right and there is no hard and fast rules to 
  parenting.  It all depends on so many variables.  That is what 
  makes us all unique!
   
  Like when I said that stopping night drinks can help and encouraging 
  more in the morning time to prevent dehydration - the comment came back, 
  
  "I'd rather he was wet than 
  dehydrated."   - GOOD!
  That is fine too as there are no rules - just 
  trial and error and if a child needs the drinks at night then fine.  
  My 3 yr old has a pop top often at night with milk and he rarely wets the 
  bed but often spills it (a milky wet!)  I don't mind as it is not 
  every night and it is generally when he has had a busy day and may not 
  have drank enough or is really tired.  But, some would say that he 
  should not be having milk to take to bed with him.  He has a very 
  strong bladder and very rarely wets.  My daughter born at 27 weeks 
  stopped wetting at night at 2yrs  as she didn't want a nappy on so I 
  said, "Fine just don't wet the bed."  She NEVER has and is now 
  9yrs. 
  Yet i wet the bed until I was 6 and my parents 
  got a machine which woke me up and in two weeks I never wet again.  
  But, I do think it did some damage to me as I REALLY REALLY HATE 
  alarms and sirens (it had a flashing red light on it and went off like an 
  allert alarm when it got wet.)  
   
  I guess they worried as my Dad wet until he was 12 and so did my 
  cousin.
  But, hey - they stopped eventually and someone i know is about 
  30 yrs old and still if drunk or very tired wets the bed.   
  
   
  In my training as a mothercraft we did a lot on these sorts of issues 
  and it is all so individual - there are things you can try and possitive 
  encouragement and reinforcement is always worth trying but it is all trial 
  and error and what works for one may not work for another - I guess that 
  was where we learnt so many different ways to do things, you have a sort 
  of list of remedies and behaviour modifying techniques etc to go 
  through and hope that maybe one works.   Most parents are not 
  given that list and don't do 2 yrs full time study to learn these things 
  so they have to stumble across what works for their child and then they 
  generalise that that is right!  So then they expect it to be right 
      for all children when it may not be.  Hope that makes sence.
   
  JMHO
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  February 27, 2003 02:45:18
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] thumb or dummy!?
   Ann I do understand the trials of lowe supply and 
  continual expressing etc.However you inferred that it might ??be 
  better than abuse. With my secondchild I had low supply and post natal 
  depression and I remember clearlybying into to the whole if I were a 
  better mother I wouldnt use a dummy.This child lived at my breast. 
  From him on I realised that my children lovesucking, my five year old 
  still wrecks his t shirts by chewing sucking onmthem and he was an 
  easy much loved baby who fed two hourly for 18monthswhich I loved 
  owing to

Re: [ozmidwifery] Channel nine BF in Public poll

[Rhonda]

   
  wow - go and check it out as there were a lot opposed
   
  Must need all our support.
   
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  Hi 
  Just noticed the latest channel nine, on-line 
  poll is related to approval of breastfeeding in public, presumably because 
  of the Kirsty in Parliament case.  When I voted just now, the results 
  were discouraging.  At least 40% of voters were 
  opposed to breastfeeding in public.  Might be worth everyone 
  here putting in a vote to push the point at www.news.ninemsn.com.au 
  
   
  Cheers
   
  Helen Cahill
   
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Any suggestions adoption

[Rhonda]

   
  Well, my husband was adopted and his birth Mother found him - through 
  an agency who do the search in private and they make the searcher aware 
  that the person who was adopted out of the family - A; may not know he/she 
  was adopted
  B; May not wish to have any contact
  C: may be dead or have had something tragic happen and may not be the 
  person that you expect them to be.
   
  It is nice to think - Oh wow a big sister that will be like me and 
  want to see me and reality that can be the case but it may not.
   
  I am not sure how siblings go about searching I think the mother has 
  to do that?
  It also depends on where the child was adopted from - in which state 
  as if you are seaching in the same state as you live in and the baby was 
  orriginally adopted in then that is easier.
   
  Geoff got a letter which was in numerous envelopes, his name on the 
  front.
  The next said Please open the rest of this in private.
  Then it said something to the effect of - "You may or may not be 
  aware that you were adopted at birth."  
  It gave him time to contact the agency and they talked to him and he 
  could get medical information only, ask for photos only and not want to 
  meet or ask for some form of contact which was also done carefully - with 
  just a phone number at first.
  He now has an ongoing relationship with his birth mother but it took 
  time.
   
  It can be a slow progression and sometimes it can be hard to find the 
  person etc.  
   
  Good Luck to your friend she needs to get her mother to tell her more 
  about where the adoption took place and for her mother to assist if she is 
  willing.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  February 27, 2003 01:19:44
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Any suggestions adoption
   
  
  
  Midwifery history has an 
  unfortunate past with adoption until recently so I am asking for assistance from this learned 
  group.
  
  I have a friend who has 
  recently been told she has a sister 5 years older than herself. Her mother kept this ‘shame’ for 49 years to 
  herself and as she said needed to ‘clear 
  unfinished business’. Needless to say this friend 
  is shocked but also very excited. 
  My 
  friend has asked how do you say hullo and meet your sister without 
  offending anybody or rushing.
  
  Cheers 
  
  Barb
  
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] night nappies

[Rhonda]

  Well, I have had some personal experience with this -
  there are some things you can do that may help.
  No milk drinks after about 3pm as Milk sits very heavy in the bladder 
  and takes a while to go through.  Also milk at night is a mild 
  sedative and makes a child sleep heavy so they don't wake as easily.  
  Combination often causes wet beds.
  Cut down on drinks before bedtime - have a cut off time like 6pm and 
  stick to it - to try to keep  the bladder relatively empty - but try 
  to encourage lots of drinks early in the day to strengthen the bladder and 
  make it full.  Often it is a case of children don't drink enough 
  which can cause bed wetting because they never really get a full bladder 
  during waking hours.  
  So lots of liquid early in the day to fill it up and when it is full 
  - try a few seconds of Holding on - just make him wait a bit to go to the 
  loo which so long as you don't force him too wait too long is not a bad 
  thing either - it also gives the bladder strength and control.  

  These things should help.  
  Don't make a fuss over wet beds but make a huge fuss about the first 
  dry bed - even a start chart or sticker book or some sort of reward system 
  may help to reinforce the possitive behaviour.
   
  There are machines you can get which set off an alarm when the child 
  wets - these are a last resort at this stage - I would try other options 
  first.
   
  Good Luck
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, February 
  25, 2003 23:13:39
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] night nappies
   
  Hi Helen
  I've had several friends with this problem 
  and this is what I remember . 
  -It appears that enuresis is more common in 
  males
  -Night control of the bladder after 
  urinary tact infections and renal manlformations  have been excluded, will sometimes take up to 16 
  years to occur
  -Control appears to happen in three yearly 
  cycles eg if the child was not "trained" at three years old none of the 
  doctors were unduly concerned, but did look closely at 6 years of age etc, 
  etc
  -All of the children that I knew about are 
  now in control of their bladder at all times, the longest took 11 
  years old.
  -Yes it did mean lots of washing- as wet beds 
  occurred most nights. Dry nights were 
  always celebrated but inevitably too soon and would be followed by wet 
  ones. 
  -These boys all stopped of their own accord, 
  although many (dubious IMHO) methods were tried
   
  Not good news but maybe helpful
   
  Alesa
   
  Alesa KoziolClinical Midwifery EducatorMelbourne
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Graham & Helen 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2003 
11:48 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] night 
nappies

Thought you might be able to help me on 
this one.
We have a five year old still wearing night 
nappies and have just decided (after waiting unfruitfully for a dry 
nappy in the morning as a sign to get rid of them) to try him without 
them anyway, so the sensation of being wet and soggy might encourage him 
to get up for a wee in the night.  Well, we have been going for 
about a week and it went like this.
 
Let him go for 2 nights and got 2 wet 
beds in a row
Then tried waking him in the night but am 
finding that even if I wake him at 12.30 am and again at 3.30 am he 
still has a bit of a wet bed in the morning.  I am considering 
about abandoning it and just leaving him longer, but thought I might see 
if you have any suggestions about the situation.  I am not 
concerned, as I have read that 1 in 5 children at this 
age don't have bladder control at night.  But I just think I 
have to try and be a bit consistent with the plan and don't want to 
confuse him by going back to the nappies prematurely.  He doesn't 
seem worried about being woken up for a wee or having a wet bed and 
knows we are just trying to help him to get 
there.  
 
I have to admit I don't think it makes much 
sense for us both to be getting broken sleeps and doing mountains 
of washing, if it just means he is not quite 
ready yet.
 
Look forward to your advice and/or own 
experiences and hope you don't mind me steering off the midwifery 
trac

Re: [ozmidwifery] Thumb not dummy

[Rhonda]

   
  Well, Katelyn was born at 27 weeks and they gave her a (tiny) dummy 
  to help her sucking reflex develop.  At about 6 months old she 
  decided that there really wan't anything in it and spat it out so i just 
  did not force her to have it and she didn't seem to mind so that was the 
  end of it.  She never sucked her thumb or fingers either.
   
  George refused to take anything in his mouth except the real thing ( 
  nipple!)  Could not even comp feed him if I wanted to until he was 8 
  months old and by then we never worried about a dummy and he also never 
  sucked his thumb or fingers even though as a small baby he fel asleep at 
  the breast.
   
  Maybe I was just lucky.  I think if you are going to use a dummy 
  then it is fine so long as you are not incesantly shoving it into a happy 
  babies mouth.  you see the baby sitting in the pram looking about 
  really happy and then Mum notices the dummy beside him/her and picks it up 
  and shoves it in.  WHY?   Just in case he/she wants 
  it?  Just coz it loks good?  It is beyond me.    
  I think Dummies are fine so long as they are used with general common 
  sence and not forced into the babies mouth at every opportunity.
  They can help to get wind up as sucking may help a baby with 
  wind.  they can be used to comfort for short peoriods to hold off a 
  feed when trying to change babies routine but I really don't agree with 
  them being used all day and night.  Once asleep, take it out.  
  Why does a baby need to sleep sucking something all night?  That is a 
  learned thing that parents teach their baby.  So why teach it??
   
  Hope that helps
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, February 
  24, 2003 10:11:34
  To: Ozmidwifery
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Thumb not dummy
   
  My wife and I personally choose not to use a 
  dummy.
  Our boy is 8 months and sometimes he sucks 
  fingers, but it is never for any duration and seems to be when his teeth 
  are coming through.
   
  We spoke with our Midwife and she advised us 
  that there was nothing to worry about  if he was sucking fingers 
  or thumb.
   
  I also read on a website that the thumb 
  sucking was usually associated with "Breast" anxiety ( due to being weaned 
  too early). Whether or not this is true I don't know.
   
  I haven't yet found any research that 
  suggests dental problems associated with thumb sucking.
   
   
  darren
   
   
   
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] baby wanted

[Rhonda]

  Well, with my first it took me 14months - I went to the dr and he 
  said to me that I shouldn't worry as "bringing a baby into the world while 
  the economy is like it is - is probably not such a good idea anyway.  
  So wat's a year or so going to matter anyway, you only get one chance a 
  month so that is only 12 times a year so it may take a while."  hmm 
  that was lots of help!   NOT!!
   
  I started to look after a baby - I guess caring for a baby seems to 
  bring on the hormones - i have heard of women adopting and then falling 
  pregnant etc as i think that it does seem to have something to 
  do with it.   So looking after a 6 month old baby - about 4 
  months of doing this three days a week and I fell pregnant.  To my 
  delight.  
   
  My second child took 3 yrs to concieve and the only thing that seemed 
  to do it was getting really really really busy - I had to almost single 
  handedly organise about 16 people to work at Sexpo doing liquid latex and 
  body piercing - one came from germany!   And then after 
  working at sexpo for 4 days painting and then ripping liquid Latex 
  off a male porn star from europe,(who gave me the nicest kiss to say 
  thank you! *grin*), hardly eating anything for the 4 days we were so 
  busy,then I got my navel pierced on stage in front of 
  5000 people and latter that night got horridly drunk on 3 
  glasses of vodka (probably because of the 4 days of starvation and 
  dehydration!)and YES!!!  I fell pregnant that night.  Take your 
  pick as to what did it!  No not the porn start - definitely my 
  hubby!!  LOL
   
  I opt for the really busy and getting drunk and maybe even the 
  adrenalin rush from getting the piercing.  
  See I figured I was "trying too hard" and so for three years I 
  worried I would get pre eclampsia again, I worried the previous C/S had 
  damaged me and that i would have another prem baby if I did fall pregnant 
  and so I worried a lot and it didn't work.  Once i had no time to 
  think and had not even the time to contemplate it - then i got pregnant - 
  something people also tell me happens.  So the mind must play a large 
  roll in it.
   
  I also stopped drinking milk for a few months around this time as 
  milk seems to produce thicker mucus to stop the sperm from getting 
  through.  If that makes sence.  Apparently, there is some 
  evidence to support that too.
   
  I do know how desperate it can be and how each month just getting a 
  period can feel as devastating as having a miscarriage - the loss of what 
  might have been etc.  So I do know how hard it is to not worry.  
  I had a book of inspirational words and each time i would worry about 
  faling pregnant with my second child I almost always got the same message 
  - 
   
  "To be upset over what you don't have.is to waste what you do 
  have."  Ken Keyes,Jr  Handbook to Higher Consciousness
   
  I guess that meant a lot to me and seemed to give me some 
  comfort.  As I had let the worry of getting pregnant get in the way 
  of my husband and my relationship and the relationship with my 
  daughter.  Once that was back on track and I started to look at what 
  I did have in my life - and got busy too..Then I fell pregnant.
   
  Perhaps it can help here too.  Maybe she needs to be happy with 
  her life first to make room in it for the baby.  To be so intent on 
  wanting a baby seems to cloud everything else and once you get to a point 
  where you can say OK - I'll just get on with my life and enjoy things as 
  they are - then it happens.   Took me 3yrs to work that out so 
  maybe we can speed things up for her.  Even though it is so hard to 
  do!
   
  Good Luck
   
  Rhonda
   
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, February 
  23, 2003 23:55:07
  To: Ozmid
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  baby wanted
   
  Hi all,
   I need some wisdom for a young women 
  who was tears telling me how desperately she wants to get pregnant, she 
  has been trying for about 5 months.
   
  She is 21, had an abortion at 16 and three 
  recent miscarriages. She also has huge guilt that her past may have 
  permanently damaged her body.
   
   Her doctor  told her that 
  she is "low in estrogen" and that is why he put her on a 
  contraceptive pill that had a high estrogen level in the 
  past?
   
  
  He also said that she has to have several 
  more miscarriages before they will do any tests (cruel unthinking 
  bastard!) 
  

Re: [ozmidwifery] Colitis

[Rhonda]

  Yes, thank you very much for such clear information Jason
  - I sent this info to my friend in England who is still in much pain 
  and distress with this condition.
  Here is a little of what she wrote to me - to give those who are not 
  familiar with the condition some idea of what it involves ---
   
  This was written after about 2 weeks of being ill.
   
  "hello you 
  I dont know how long i can write for as im 
  pretty spinny, but ill fill you in on my week.  I was still not 
  eating and in loads of pain on thursday so i went to the doctors.  I 
  used up all the immodium and it didnt work one bit.  So she wrote a 
  letter and sent me to the hospital.  I picked hubby up on the 
  way to help drive etc. 
  Then i got taken in and put on a drip for 24 
  hours as i was so dehydrated from so much diarrhea and not eating (i had 
  been drinking lots though, just nowhere near enough to cope with my 
  bowels) and they did lots of tests and i was kept in until monday 
  afternoon.  Im still in lots of pain and everything i try to eat 
  comes out 3 or 4 hours later.  So im feeling really light headed all 
  the time.  Anyway, from the tests they concluded that this is a 
  colitis flare up, as there was no infection in the urinary tract and no 
  bowel infection either.  I thought all the bloody poos and stomach 
  aches and steroid enemas to calm the swelling was colitis, but it would 
  appear im having an attack.  So its all about not being able to eat 
  solids for weeks and having to stay near a tiolet, and pain that makes you 
  black out every time you go to the loo too.  I know the baby 
  isnt helping at all, as i have to rotate my sitting/lying position every 
  few hours to give each area of my bowels a rest form the pressure.  
  
  They started me on some steroid tablets 
  yesterday in the hope that they will calm the swelling all over.  
  Being tablets they work everywhere, as opposed to the enemas i was doing 
  which only went a certain way up.  Im feeling pretty low as nothing 
  is happening so far...i dont know how long the steroids will take to kick 
  in but i hoipe its soon.  Im living off bland soups (still! its been 
  2 weeks now!).  No dairy (no cheese!!!) or chocolate or anything 
  really.  I tried some pasta and it made me really bad.  
  Thats the firmest textured food ive dared to go and it was pretty 
  bad.  Unfortunately 6 of the 15 tablets im having to take per day 
  make you nausius if you dont have them with food, which is a viscious 
  circle for me because if i eat food it really hurts, but if i take them 
  with just the soup then i feel sick for hours.  So i decided to take 
  just 3 a day until the steroids kick in and i can eat more solids, then 
  ill take the full 6.  Phew.  Im knackered.  I keep 
  having big sleeps in the afternoon...i feel like an old person!  Im 
  on lots of iron too, so hopefully that will try to make me constipated and 
  counter ballance this endless flow of diarrhea.   
  Anyway my eyes are hurting now so i have to 
  stop for a bit."
   
   
  She is due to have her second baby in May and developed the Colitis 
  after the birth of her first (possably brought on by antibiotics for 
  mastitis when breast feeding)  Her first baby had a condition called 
  gastroskysis and she had a C/S at about 34 weeks - she was hoping for 
  a natural delivery but with her condition I am worried that it will 
  give them good reason to recommend another c/s.  
   
  Lets hope that she can get some relief from what you have 
  posted.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda 
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, 
  February 22, 2003 22:33:52
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Colitis
   Wow, Jason, what a thoughtful and complete reply, 
  printing it off.marilyn- Original Message -From: 
  "Jason Hawrelak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Sent: 
  Thursday, February 20, 2003 5:37 PMSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
  Colitis> Hello Andrea,>> I'm guessing that by 
  'colitis' you mean ulcerative colitis, which is> characterised by 
  episodes of abdominal pain and bloody diarrhoea. I'm a> naturopath, 
  and I am also doing a PhD in the area of gut health and the> 
  intestinal micro-ecology, so I know a fair bit about ulcerative 
  colitisand> its management with natural 
  medicine.>> During the acute stage of the condition (which 
  it sounds like she is in)> one would usually put the client on a 
  elemental or hypoallergenic

[ozmidwifery] Fw: The Curious Patient

[Rhonda]

  Have a good day
  Rhonda
   A man is lying in bed in a Catholic hospital with an 
  oxygen mask over his mouth. A young auxiliary nurse appears to sponge 
  his face and hands."Nurse," he mumbles from behind the mask, "Are 
  my testicles black?"Embarrassed the young nurse replies, "I don't 
  know Mr Jones, I'm only hereto wash your face and hands."He 
  struggles again to ask, "Nurse, Are my testicles black?"Again the 
  nurse replies, "I can't tell. I'm only here to wash your face 
  andhands."The ward sister was passing and saw the man getting 
  a little distraught somarched over to inquire what was 
  wrong."Sister," he mumbled, "Are my testicles black?"Being 
  a nurse of long-standing, the sister was undaunted. She whipped 
  backthe bedclothes, pulled down his pajama trousers, moved his penis 
  out of theway, had a right good look, pulled up the pajamas, replaced 
  the bed clothesand announced, "Nothing wrong with them!!!"At 
  this the man pulled off his oxygen mask and asked again, "Are my test 
  results back???





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] obstetric language!

[Rhonda]

  My records were a joke and it was so interesting to have in my notes 
  from george's entrance into the world via abuse - that I was "obese"
  Just after he was born -  about a week after his birth I weighed 
  72 kgs. 
  I had my gallbladder out 2 weeks ago and was 72.6kgs at the time of 
  the op. and the surgeon commented on how me not being very overweight made 
  his life easy! 
  Well isn't that conflicting?  Same weight and one states obese 
  and the other says I was not too fat and thew op was easy!
  I guess calling a woman fat is just another derogatory and 
  manipulative statement that justifies doing a C/S.  
   
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, February 
  21, 2003 17:35:25
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] obstetric language!
   Dear List,I have often wondered what some of my 
  medical recordscontain,probably not any better than what is said.I 
  ampleased to say that one if the members of this listwrote 
  something favourable on my M.C.H.N. records: "Itwas really great to 
  catch up with Ann again."Thank youfrom Ann 
  ---__Do You 
  Yahoo!?Everything you'll ever need on one web pagefrom News and 
  Sport to Email and Music Chartshttp://uk.my.yahoo.com--This 
  mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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RE: [ozmidwifery] obstetric language!

[Rhonda]

   
  Being honest about not caring about her! 
   
  Was what i thought. 
   -  " you don't matter!"
  That says it all for lots of Ob's doesn't it.  
  (Unfortunately!)
       
  Regards
  rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, February 
  21, 2003 15:36:18
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] obstetric language!
   
  Being Honest About What?
   the pain he is inflicting 
   
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of 
RhondaSent: Friday, February 21, 2003 12:12 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: 
[ozmidwifery] obstetric language!

  
  

   
  Wow - I guess he was at least being honest! 
       
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original 
  Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, 
  February 21, 2003 00:04:44
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] obstetric language!
   This is what I overheard an obstetrician say to a 
  birthing woman recently, whilst applying a ventouse:' 
  stop screamingit is all mind over matter...I don't mind and 
  you don't matter'if I had not heard it my self I would not 
  have believed it ..we had quite a heated discussion later 
  outside the labour wardwith woman...and honoring of 
  midwivestrudiehttp://www.homebirthservices.com.auTrudie 
  de Keijzerphone 02 47574744mobile 0438 572337
  

  


  
  
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] obstetric language!

[Rhonda]

   
  Wow - I guess he was at least being honest! 
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, February 
  21, 2003 00:04:44
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  obstetric language!
   This is what I overheard an obstetrician say to a 
  birthing woman recently, whilst applying a ventouse:' stop 
  screamingit is all mind over matter...I don't mind and you don't 
  matter'if I had not heard it my self I would not have believed it 
  ..we had quite a heated discussion later outside the labour 
  wardwith woman...and honoring of midwivestrudiehttp://www.homebirthservices.com.auTrudie 
  de Keijzerphone 02 47574744mobile 0438 572337





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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RE: [ozmidwifery] Colitis

[Rhonda]

   
  I was so hoping someone had some real help for you.
  My friend in England just wrote to me in much pain and distress her 
  colitis has flared up so badly that she has not been able to hold any 
  solid food for about 2 weeks and was admitted to hospital over the weekend 
  and put on a drip for dehydration as her bowels have been so swollen and 
  so irritated that she has been bleeding and having to go every couple of 
  hours.
   
  She first was given immodium tablets which after a full packet did 
  not help.
  Now she is on iron tabs - very anaemic
  Steroids to settle the swelling
  And is pretty miserable.
  She did say that she has to move her possition every couple of hours 
  so that the pressure on her bowels from the baby is not in the same place 
  for any length of time as that makes it worse.
   
  I would love to have some wonderful cure to offer her but I have not 
  heard of anything much yet.
  The only other thing is that sometimes colitis can be caused by too 
  many of the bad bacteria in the bowel and nnot enough good ones.  If 
  this is the cause there are some good probiotic tablets available that may 
  be worth a try.
  Look up either probiotics or colitis on google - I think???
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  February 20, 2003 12:08:38
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Colitis
   Hi AndreaI need some clarification on what you mean 
  by colitis.Do you mean wind bowel pain?Then I'd suggest reducing 
  "windy" foods in her diet.Perhaps using chamomile tea and peppermint 
  tea and other windy helpfulthings like a warm bath, gentle abdominal 
  massage etc.Or is it bowel irritation?Could she have an 
  intolerance/allergy to wheat?I think the celiac society has a 
  website.Or could the bleeding be from piles?Especially if she has 
  varicose veins evident on her legs.If it's none of the above but she's 
  bleeding, I'd be concerned.Could there be a blood clotting 
  problem?hug Julie ClarkeChildbirth and Parenting 
  EducatorTransition into Parenthood9 Withybrook PlSylvania NSW 
  2224T. (02) 9544 6441F (02) 9544 9257M. 0401 265 530email 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original 
  Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of AndreaRobertsonSent: Wednesday, 19 February 2003 4:57 
  PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  [ozmidwifery] ColitisCan anyone help me with a problem for one of 
  my clients: 28 weeks, 1st baby, suffering from colitis and getting 
  worse - main symptom seems tobe rectal bleeding, which she says 
  happens 3 times a day. Otherwise veryfit (yoga, gym, power walks 
  daily) and healthy (very diet conscious). Fromwhat I have read, 
  there is not much she can do - drugs are contraindicatedand the 
  pregnancy hormones are probably exacerbating the condition, whichwill 
  improve once the baby arrives. Any suggestions most 
  welcome!Many thanks,Andrea-Andrea 
  RobertsonBirth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth 
  Educatione-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]web: 
  www.birthinternational.com--This 
  mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is 
  sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] war

[Rhonda]

  So, if the peace makers had prevented Hitler from gaining the power 
  that he had - that would have been wrong?
  I think in this modern day we can only learn from the mistakes made 
  in history - not repeat them.
  Why do iraq have to declare all of their weapons etc and who says 
  they are not being honest - do you know for sure?
  What weapons do America or Australia have for that matter - How 
  honest are they being to us.
  It seems very hypocritical to me.
  I think that working towards peace is important but the truth is even 
  more imoprtant - weather it be to do with birthing mothers, women who have 
  been abused by doctors, or babies who will be killed if a war does break 
  out - not only in iraq but here as well. 
  I think we all need to realise that if war does break out that 
  nuclear weapons will be used if not by us - by them and society as we know 
  it will crumble.  This issue is more serious than feeling that you 
  are not good if you do not rally.  I don't think anyone has implied 
  that.  
  I think that the very little mentions that have been made have been 
  interesting and have been out of that little place in the back of 
  everyone's mind which holds back the Fear and Confusion of it all.  
  Sometimes the reality of war does cause people to worry and when people 
  worry they tend to vent or speak about it - especially women! 
   What better place to vent than with like minded women who are 
  trying to innitiate peace within the birthing industry and to bring 
  children into a loving environment right fromt he start - war goes against 
  all of the aims that are spoken about here as babies will be born among 
  bombings and death and destruction. 
   
  So in my little vent - we should do what little we can to innitiate 
  peace even if that is as simple as smiling at your neighbour or saying a 
  prayer or 
  So love Thy neighbour and pray for peace!  
  My little vent for the night.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, February 
  17, 2003 18:06:55
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  war
   
  To the group. while I applaud everyone's 
  continued passion and support in birhting matters, I have to speak out a 
  bit. We are all obviously peace lovers, spiritual and caring of women 
  babies and the world. However I do not like to be told or have it assumed 
  that such things as peace rallies etc are a part of being a 'good' person. 
  My political beliefs, (I am anti war to a certain extent but hey look ant 
  history, there are times when it is inevitable, I mean thank goodness we 
  didn't leave it to the peace makers to deal with hitler!)l, are my own and 
  I reject and resent simplistic ideologies asserted without due debate, and 
  really as a midwifery web site we need to question how this is achievable 
  or desirable which assume my stance or dilemmas over this complex and 
  terrible situation. To rally or not to speak out etc are deep and complex 
  issues not to be casually and trivially deal with on a list which aims to 
  speak of birthing issues within a western community. 
  Just my own and humble say(rave)
  belinda
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleeping positions

[Rhonda]

   
  A friend of mine said to me when complaining about having to get up 
  during the night to feed and how cold it was to sit in the lounge at 
  2am etc - I said that my baby just latched on (in bed with me) so I 
  got a rather good sleep and he was warm and fed.
  Her response to that was, "I could never have my babies sleep in the 
  same room with us as I could not sleep for listening to them 
  breath."  She prefered to not be able to hear them and shut them in 
  the next room.  I thought that was weird logic?  On questioning 
  her - It started with the midwives taking the baby to the nursery during 
  her hospital stay so she could "get some sleep".
   
  I would not let them take my second away after having been separated 
  from Katelyn for 9 very long weeks I was not going to miss one moment with 
  George.  I think they took him for a total of 4 hours the first night 
  and I was cross about that!
   
  Regards
  Rhonda
   
  NB: feeling much better after my op. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, February 
  17, 2003 08:51:54
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Sleeping positions
   
  Jo, that must have been shattering 
  for you. I was too worried about them stopping breathing to not have them 
  with me all the time (call me neurotic if you like!). 
   
  I still have my king-size, 
  soft-sided, waveless waterbed I bought when I had two littlies co-sleeping 
  with me. Actually, Leslie had his own bed by then, but used come in for 
  snuggles. Rosie was still co-sleeping and was three at the time. Amazing 
  how much ROOM little bodies can take up! We all loved sleeping in the big 
  bed (I still do -- why don't I do more of it!), and as teenagers, they 
  remember it with great fondness. We're all convinced it's one of the 
  reasons we're so loving and close; a wonderful relationship to be 
  able to share with your teenagers! 
   
  Love and hugs,
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jo Slamen 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 7:30 AM
  Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Sleeping positions
  
  My first baby was having nappy changed in hospital - approx. 3 days 
  old,lying on back and choked on vomit.  It wasn't until I was 
  running around tothe nurses station holding him face down along my arm 
  that the vomit startedcoming out of nose and mouth and he was able to 
  begin breathing again.After a traumatic birth and +10% weight loss - 
  this really did my confidencein utterly.  As a result was afraid 
  to sleep him on his back for fear ofchoking on vomit, and even #2 baby 
  has side slept pretty much all the time.This event also primed me for 
  co-sleeping as I was afraid to leave him whereI couldn't see him - the 
  whole choking thing was silent.Jo
   
  ---
   
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system 
  (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 
  6.0.455 / Virus Database: 255 - Release Date: 13/02/03
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Women Against War

[Rhonda]

  
  

  I tried to send this on and found that the return address does not 
  work.
  I guess my hunch that most of these things don't work was 
  confirmed!
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  February 13, 2003 23:08:11
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Women Against War
   
   
  
  


  
This did not make it onto the news did it!! 
Funny how we are not told about 25 congresswomen walking out 
etc...  How much else are they NOT telling us??

  
PETITION:Subject: Women Against WarToday 25 
Congresswomen in the US House of Representatives walkedout--and 
refused to participate in the vote to give Bush war powers 
---they were led by Barbara Bell of California and they 
took up residenceon the White House lawn...They say 
women can change the world. Here is a chance! A 
nation-wideeffort to unite women against war has drafted a 
statement here and askyou, if you are so moved, to send it 
out to as many women and women'sgroups as you can for 
endorsement. You can also sign as an individual.If you feel 
so moved, please sign below, giving your or yourorganisation's 
name and location. Then please cut and paste thismessageinto 
a new message and forward on to as many people as you know. 
Ifyouare the 50th, 100th, 150th, 200th, etc., person, 
please also e-mail acopy back to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. 
This is our chance to stop thiswar. Women are a strong 
constituency in this country.We only have a few days.Please 
act immediately.Women United Against War.As women embracing 
life and peace, we declare ourselves opposed to anymilitary 
action against Iraq. As women, we have been the victims 
ofmanykinds of violence. We call on you, our Congress 
members, to oppose anymilitary action. We make this demand 
for ourselves, our children, ourparents, our brothers, husbands, 
partners and friends. We make thisdemand because we understand 
that warfare creates endless cycles ofviolence, destruction and 
death, impoverishing us spiritually andeconomically. We make 
this demand because warfare destroys familylife,throwing 
whole communities into exile and turning children 
intoorphans.We make this demand because we cannot build 
happy lives on a groundpolluted by violence. We believe this is 
a defining moment in the lifeof our country.We will either 
take our place in the family of nationsasseekers of peace 
and justice or we will start down a terrible road towar, 
unleashing the fury of generations to come on our land. Wecall 
upon you to act with integrity, to show courage and remember 
thatyou are guardians of the public trust and of the world 
we leave to ourchildren. We oppose this war. We oppose all 
elected officials whosupport this war. There is no other issue 
greater than the cause ofpeace. No past stand or history can be 
called upon to overshadow theimperative to stand today for 
peace.We, as women acting to shape public life, dedicate our 
energy,resources, and hopes to those who establish peace. There 
will be nowar in our names. If you want our support and votes, 
stop this war!Signed:1. Unreasonable Women for the Earth, 
Nation-wide2. Pramila Jayapal, Seattle, WA3. Ginny NiCarthy, 
Seattle, WA4. Karen Bosley, Seattle, WA5. Janice Pickard, 
Coupeville, WA6. Margot E "Peg" Tennant, Coupeville WA7. 
Patty Carlisle, Seattle, WA8. Karen Jensen, Seattle, WA9. 
Frances Partridge, Seattle, WA10. Elizabeth Sanders, Seattle, 
WA11. Marjorie Huebner, MN12. Karolyn Redoutey, MN13. 
Jennifer Moore, MN14. Jacqueline Sterling, Minneapolis, 
MN15. Rorie Hanrahan, Santa Fe, NM16. Maggie Copeland, 
Glendive, MT17. Joan Gough, Moab, UT18. Eleanor Inskip, Salt 
Lake City, UT19. Meherban Kaur Khalsa, Salt Lake City, Ut20. 
Shakta Khalsa, Herndon, VA21. Anne V. Hilliard, Jacksonville, 
FL22. Ann McGill, Reston, VA23. Mary Elizabeth Th! under, 
West Point, Texas &Big Indian, NY24. Joy Walker, Palm Bay, 
Fl. 3290925. Christina Van Deusen, Waltham MA 0245326. Susan 
Cohen Thompson, Natick, MA 0176027. Linda Timann Dewing, 
Providence, RI 0290628. Mika

[ozmidwifery] Women Against War

[Rhonda]

melb, 
australia-133.  cherry blaskett, tasmania, 
australia
134.Jenny Moon, Pt Lonsdale, 
Australia135.Chris Johnson,Queenscliff,Australia
136.Julie Walker,Queenscliff,Australia
137.Mirella McCoy,Queenscliff,Australia
138.Chris Russ,Leopold,Australia
139. Rhonda Polley,Geelong, 
Australia
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] I Love My Job (joke)

[Rhonda]

  Inspirational!
  Rhonda.
     
  I LOVE MY JOB Next time you have a bad day at work. . . think of 
  this guy.Rob is a commercial saturation diver for Global Divers in 
  Louisiana He performs underwater repairs on offshore 
  drillingrigs  Below is an E-mail he sent to his sister. She 
  then sent it to The X, 103.2 FM in Ft Wayne IN, who was sponsoring a 
  "worst job experience" contest. Needless to say, she won."Hi 
  Sue, Just another note from your bottom-dwelling brother.Last week 
  I had a bad day at the office. I know you've beenfeeling down lately 
  at work, so I thought I would share my dilemma with you to make you 
  realize it's not so bad after all.Before I can tell you what 
  happened to me, I first must bore you with a few technicalities of my 
  job. As you know, my office lies at the bottom of the sea.I wear a 
  suit to the office. It's a wetsuit. This time of year the water is 
  quite cool.So what we do to keep warm is this: we have a diesel 
  powered industrial water heater.This $20,000 piece of equipment 
  sucks the water out of the sea, heats it to a delightful temperature, 
  then pumps it down to the diver through a garden hose, which is taped to 
  the air hose.Now this sounds like a darn good plan, and I've used 
  it severaltimes with no complaints.What I do, when I get to the 
  bottom and start working, is take the hoseand stuff it down the back 
  of my wetsuit.This floods my whole suit with warm water. It's like 
  working in a Jacuzzi.Everything was going well until all of a sudden, 
  my butt started toitch. So, of course, I scratched it. This only made 
  things worse.Within a few seconds my butt started to burn. I pulled 
  the hose out from my back, but the damage was done.In agony, I 
  realized what had happened.   The hot water machine had 
  sucked up a jellyfish and pumped it into my suit.Now since I 
  don't have any hair on my back, the jellyfish couldn't stick to it. 
  However, the crack of my butt was not as fortunate. When I scratched what 
  I thought was an itch, I was actually grinding thejellyfish into my 
  butt.I informed the dive supervisor of my dilemma over the 
  communicator.His instructions were unclear due to the fact that he, 
  along with 5other divers, were all laughing hysterically.Needless 
  to say I aborted the dive.I was instructed to make 3 agonizing 
  in-water decompressionstops totaling 35 minutes before I could reach 
  the surface to begin my chamber dry decompression.When I 
  arrived at the surface, I was wearing nothing but my brasshelmet. As I 
  climbed out of the water, the medic, with tears of laughter running 
  down his face, handed me a tube of cream and told me to rub it on my 
  butt as soon as I got in the chamber.The cream put the fire out, but I 
  couldn't poop for 2 days because my rectum was swollen 
  shut.So, next time you're having a bad day at work, think about 
  how much worse it would be if you had a jellyfish shoved up your 
  butt.Now repeat to yourself, "I love my job, I love my job, I love 
  my job" (My add on) Now think of how much better it would be 
  if you could shove a jellyfish up that Ob's but the next time he insists 
  on a C/S or some other intrusive intervention that probably isn't needed. 
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] FW: FW: : CASE STUDY

[Rhonda]

  Ouch!  That really did hurt - on the mend but laughing does 
  still hurt a bit.
  Rhonda.  LOL
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, 
  February 12, 2003 09:37:51
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  FW: FW: : CASE STUDY
   
  
  
  
  
  
  The Penis Study
  
  Several years ago, Great 
  Britain funded a study to determine why 
  the head of a man's penis is larger than the shaft. The study took 
  twoyears and cost over $180,000. The results concluded that the reason 
  the head of a man's penis is larger than the shaft is to provide the 
  manwith more pleasure during sex.After the results 
  were published, the French declared that the British were wrong and 
  decided to conduct their own study of the samesubject. After three 
  years of research and a cost in excess of $250,000, they concluded 
  that the head of a man's penis is larger than theshaft to provide 
  the woman with more sexual pleasure.When the results of the French 
  study were released, 
  Australia decided 
  to conduct its own study. So, after nearly three weeks 
  of intensive
  
  research and a cost of around $75, the Aussies 
  study was complete. They came to the conclusion that the reason the 
  head of a man's penis
  
  is larger than the shaft is to prevent his hand 
  from flying off and hitting him in the 
  forehead.
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Advice Required

[Rhonda]

  Having suffered from an unexplained rash for most of my life - the 
  rash occurs with me in times of stress or excitement - like great big 
  mozzie bites.
  As a five yr old I got them at Chrismas and birthdays as a teenager 
  at my sisters engagementparty etc.  Never has it been explained to me 
  but I always grew up saying it was "Just my itchy rash!"
   
  Anyway I found that the best thing for rapud relief 
  was pinetarsol solution in the bath (fairly strong) and then a 
  generous application of camomile lotion.
  I used to do this and go to bed looking all pink from head to toe at 
  times when it was bad. 
  As I am writing thins I have a clear memory of my Dad using cotton 
  balls soaked in camomile lotion (all pale pink and soft) dabbing it all 
  over me as I stood arms outstretched practically begging for him to make 
  the itching stop and saying more here and more there. 
   
  As I got older I generally took an antihistermine tablet.  
  
   
  lots of water to drink, lots of relaxing and lots of luck to your 
  friend.
  NB: scratching always made it worse
   
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, February 
  11, 2003 21:10:24
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] URGENT Advice Required
   
  Don't know if this will be of any help, but a 
  friend of mine who suffers wwith cholestasis in pregnancy swears by a 
  dilute "brew" of carb soda to bathe the area with, also using mylanta 
  dabbed on the area, or even making up some camomile tea, and using this to 
  bathe the area.  good luck, Pauline
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 
7:56 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT 
Advice Required
Hello AllI have a friend who 
had a bub on Saturday and since she was in labour on Friday she has had 
a severe heat type looking rash (GP/Ob) says it’s pregnancy something or 
other and did not offer much in the way of remedy.  It is very red 
and raised and itchy like hell, also the heat affects it (and we live in 
Nthrn NSW!) she has large patches over abdo/ top of legs 
etc.Antihistamines are out of the question with breastfeeding I 
believe, the babe is feeding beautifully so it would be great to help 
with the rash so Mum does not consider giving up BF.  She is 
currently bathing in an oatmeal product and applying a soothing cream 
with oatmeal in it.Any super remedies??Thanks a 
bunchJustine 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] URGENT Advice Required

[Rhonda]

   
  That was "calomine lotion".  Not camomile.  Sorry!
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, February 
  11, 2003 21:10:24
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] URGENT Advice Required
   
  Don't know if this will be of any help, but a 
  friend of mine who suffers wwith cholestasis in pregnancy swears by a 
  dilute "brew" of carb soda to bathe the area with, also using mylanta 
  dabbed on the area, or even making up some camomile tea, and using this to 
  bathe the area.  good luck, Pauline
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Justine Caines 
To: OzMid List 
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 
7:56 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] URGENT 
Advice Required
Hello AllI have a friend who 
had a bub on Saturday and since she was in labour on Friday she has had 
a severe heat type looking rash (GP/Ob) says it’s pregnancy something or 
other and did not offer much in the way of remedy.  It is very red 
and raised and itchy like hell, also the heat affects it (and we live in 
Nthrn NSW!) she has large patches over abdo/ top of legs 
etc.Antihistamines are out of the question with breastfeeding I 
believe, the babe is feeding beautifully so it would be great to help 
with the rash so Mum does not consider giving up BF.  She is 
currently bathing in an oatmeal product and applying a soothing cream 
with oatmeal in it.Any super remedies??Thanks a 
bunchJustine 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] gallbladder

[Rhonda]

   
  
  Just to let you sll know I am home.
  A little tender in my tummy - 5 small holes.
  The op took about 1hour 15mins and I was awake and talking to the 
  surgeon (which amazed him) 5 mins after he finished.
  He was pleased and I have really only had panadol and just took a 
  tramol which is great to ease the pain.
  I had a shower at about 8.30 - the op finished at about 3.15.
  and came home at about 9.30pm.
   
  All went well and the HUGH stone is ina little jar
   
  I am heading off to bed now to rest.
   
  luv
  Rhonda
   
  NB - Thanks for the kind thoughts and wishes.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, 
  February 05, 2003 14:55:26
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] gallbladder
   
  Hi, Rhonda,
   
  By the time you receive this, you'll be home again, so I hope the 
  surgery went smoothly and wish you a very speedy recovery. I'm sure you'll 
  be relieved!
   
  Aviva
   
  ---
   
  Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 
  6.0.449 / Virus Database: 251 - Release Date: 27/01/03
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Overdue Babies,

[Rhonda]

   
  HOW WONDERFUL!!!
   
  HOW INSPIRING FOR OTHERS!!!
   
  I do hope you got to blow big raspberries at those who were 
  bullying!!!
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, February 
  04, 2003 11:03:52
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Overdue Babies,
   
  
  For 
  those who encouraged me along the jouney.
  
  The 
  babies who were overdue waited patiently.. while their mothers waited impatiently until Feb 
  arrived before their arrival. One due the 8th of jan was born 
  the 1st of Feb (24 days over) looking a little overcooked and 
  weighed in at 3.6kg despite the late scan saying 4.1kg.. 
  
  
   the other due the 11th 
  of Jan arrived on the 2nd of Feb (22 days) looking not a minute 
  overdue despite mother’s dates and scan dates matching around 16 
  weeks!
  
  Both 
  these women resisted pressure (and bulling) from the obs involved and from 
  family and friends to trust themselves and their babies. I am so inspired 
  by them both.
  
  
  Sally 
  Westbury
  Homebirth 
  Midwife
  
  "You 
  are a midwife, assisting at someone else's birth. Do good without  
  show or fuss. Facilitate what is happening rather than what you think 
  ought to be happening. If you must take the lead, lead so that the mother 
  is helped, yet still free and in charge. When the baby is born, the mother 
  will rightly say: "We did it ourselves!"
   from 
  The Tao Te Ching
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] gallbladder

[Rhonda]

   
  I am going in tomorrow to have my gallbladder out.  
  It seems to have gone so fast.
  I have spoken to the dr and the anaesthetist about not over dosing me 
  on painkillers etc so that I may come home tomorrow night and they have 
  been very good about it.  So it may only be a day stay if all goes 
  well otherwise I will be staying overnight.
  I guess I will be sore for a few days but have been assur4ed that 
  keyhole surgury is not that bad if all goes well.
   
  Will let you know how I go later.
  Thanks to all those who offered advise.
   
  Rhonda
   
  PS:  having a fat free diet since Christmas has been gr4eat - 
  now almost 10kgs latter i have made some really nice low fat meals and 
  feel great!
  So somethiong good has come out of this after all.  i am sure 
  the weight loss has been helped by the "fear" factor - if I eat it it may 
  hurt! so I will go without.  LOL  No cheating on this diet, best 
  diet I have ever been on. *grin*  Not that i would recommend 
  gallstones to anyone.
  I did test myself and had a few bites of my son's home made hamburger 
  (not high fat really) Spent a few hours in pain and decided that I would 
  not do that again.  So I guess it is not going to settle down without 
  surgery.
   
   
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] Thinking Of You Today

[Rhonda]

  A lovely story - I think this list does so much for each other that 
  there are a lot of parachutes out there!
   
  Rhonda
   
   
  THINKING OF YOU TODAY 
  Charles Plumb was a US Navy jet pilot in Vietnam.  
After 75 combinedmissions, his plane was destroyed by a 
surface-to-air missile.  Plumbejected and parachuted into enemy 
hands.  He was captured and spent six years in a communist 
Vietnamese prison.  He survived the ordeal and now lectures on 
lessons learned from that experience. One day, when Plumb and 
his wife were sitting in a restaurant, a man at another table came 
up and said, "You're Plumb! You flew jet fighters in Vietnam from 
the aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk.  You were shot down!" "How 
in the world did you know that?" asked Plumb. "I packed your 
parachute," the man replied.  Plumb gasped in surprise and 
gratitude.  The man pumped his hand and said, "I guess it 
worked!"  Plumb assured him, "It sure did.  If your 
chute hadn't worked, I wouldn't be here today." Plumb 
couldn't sleep that night, thinking about that man.  Plumb says, 
"I kept wondering what he had looked like in a Navy uniform: a white 
hat, a bib in the back, and bell-bottom trousers.  I wonder how 
many times I might have seen him and not even said 'Good morning, 
how are you?' or anything because, you see, I was a fighter pilot 
and he was just asailor."  Plumb thought of the many hours the 
sailor had spent at a longwooden table in the bowels of the ship, 
carefully weaving the shrouds and folding the silks of each chute, 
holding in his hands each time the fate of someone he didn't know. 
Now, Plumb asks his audience, "Who's packing your parachute?" 
Everyone has someone who provides what they need to make it 
through the day.  He also points out that he needed many kinds 
of parachutes when his plane was shot down over enemy territory - he 
needed his physical parachute, his mental parachute, his emotional 
parachute, and his spiritual parachute.  He called on all these 
supports before reaching safety. Sometimes in the daily 
challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really 
important.  We may fail to say hello, please, or thank you, 
congratulate someone on something wonderful that has happened to 
them, give a compliment, or just do something nice for no reason. As 
you go through this week, this month, this year, recognize people 
who pack your parachutes. *I am sending you this as 
my way of thanking you for your part in packingmy parachute!!! And I 
hope you will send it on to those who have helpedpack 
yours!Sometimes, we wonder why friends keep forwarding jokes to 
us withoutwriting a word, maybe this could explain it: When you are 
very busy, butstill want to keep in touch, guess what you do--you 
forward jokes.  Andto let you know that you are still 
remembered, you are still important, youare still loved, you are 
still cared for, guess what you get?  A forwardedjoke. 
So my friend, next time when you get a joke, don't think that 
you'vebeen sent just another forwarded joke, but that you've been 
thought of today and your friend on the other end of your computer 
wanted to send you a smile, just helping you pack your parachute. 

   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] post dates

[Rhonda]

  Some statistics that Jackie Mawson had stated that out of every 500 
  inductions they only save 1 baby.
  that means these women have a 1 in 500 chance of their babies having 
  any problems due to post dates doesn't it??!!   - I guess that 
  is rather good odds as far as I am concerned. 
  I also believe that if something is wrong you know.
  My girlfriend had a baby who had gastroskysis (a hole allowing her 
  intestines to develop on the outside) everything was going well and at 34 
  weeks (I think it was) she just up and went to the hospital and told them 
  that the baby was in trouble (she just felt it) Her baby had tangled it's 
  cord and was in distress.  She Knew even though it was her first 
  baby.  Just to help them realise they will KNOW if something is 
  wrong.
   
  Good Luck!
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Monday, January 
  27, 2003 11:42:51
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  post dates
   The women I'm waiting with are challenging me... after 
  waiting 16 daysaround Christmas time I am now at 19 days with one 
  woman and 16 withanother... sigh... They are getting your 'baby will 
  die' scenarios fromthe doctor but are both resistant to an induction! 
  One felt 'a bitbullied' the doctor. Got some happy stories for 
  me??My own happy story was that with my last baby I was 22 days 
  over.. hewas born beautifully and still had vernix under his arms and 
  in hisgroin. Sally WestburyHomebirth 
  Midwife"You are a midwife, assisting at someone else's 
  birth. Do good withoutshow or fuss. Facilitate what is happening 
  rather than what you thinkought to be happening. If you must take the 
  lead, lead so that themother is helped, yet still free and in charge. 
  When the baby is born,the mother will rightly say: "We did it 
  ourselves!"from The Tao Te Ching--This mailing 
  list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today

[Rhonda]

   
  I have a friend who is about 4 months pregnant - due in about June I 
  think.  She was telling me today that they want her to have an 
  amniosentisis to check for Downs syndrome etc...   She is 27 yrs 
  old and this is her first shild with no history in the family of 
  disability.
  Why would they want her to have a test like that done?  She is 
  not high risk as far as i can tell.  the only other factor which I 
  can think of and can not believe is that she is very dark skinned African 
  and her husband a white Australian.
   
  Anyone got any idea why the hospital would request she do this?
  I told her of the risks that they had not mentioned.
   
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, January 
  21, 2003 22:09:50
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Had a win today
   
  Duck Aviva!!
   
  A pinards is the 'ear trumpet' that was used 
  to listen to the baby's heart beat before the invention of sonicaids and 
  monitors. I have a beautiful hand turned pinards made from ash. Sadly many 
  'modern' midwives don't have the comfidence to use one.
   
  Sally
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Aviva 
Sheb'a 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 
11:09 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Had a 
win today

OK, wot's pinards? (Is it so 
obvious I need to duck?)
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Sally 
Westbury 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:06 AM
Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Had a win today

That is fantastic! I use my pinards for all my antenatal 
visits too, as I don't like to putelectronic gadgets near a 
developing and sensitive babySally WestburyHomebirth 
Midwife
 
---
 
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 
6.0.443 / Virus Database: 248 - Release Date: 
  10/01/03
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Research support request

[Rhonda]

  Yes I was about to forward this to Jackie as I know she will be able 
  to help. 
   
  Taa
  Rhonda
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, January 
  18, 2003 17:24:08
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Research support request
   
  Dear Rhonda
  Have you given your friend info re Jackie Mawson and the 
  birthrites site??
  Alesa
   
  Alesa KoziolMidwifery Clinical EducatorMelbourne
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Rhonda 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 
12:20 PM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Research 
support request


  
  

  Dear List - 
  I am posting this for a friend of mine who is working hard to 
  also promote change.
  She has a limited amount of time to get this 
  done asks that anyone with first hand experience or 
  professional knowledge of how devastated women can be and how the 
  opportunity to speak up about this after a traumatic birth would 
  NOT do "more harm than good".  She needs this by the end of 
  January.
   
  Here is her letter - Anyone who has the time to reply can 
  post a reply to her at the snail mail address listed.  Thank 
  you so much.   
  Rhonda.
   
  "Dear Rhonda,
   
  I basically need some letters from women who have had an 
  emergency caesarean saying that their delivery did lead them 
  to feel distress afterwards, and that they would have welcomed 
  the opportunity to fill out a questionnaire asking them about 
  their true feelings - that it would *not* have made them feel 
  worse to do so.Currently, the ethics committee (mostly 
  men, with several doctors on board) is trying to block my 
  woman-benefiting research, by arguing that the increased 
  'distress' put upon women by asking them questions a month after 
  the birth is not outweighed by the potential benefits of the 
  research (which sounds awfully like an attempt to silence 
  women's voices and prevent change!).But I am arguing that 
  not only are there huge benefits to women overall from the 
  research, but that it is not going to harm emergency caesarean 
  women, by asking them how they feel. Rather, it might actually 
  make them feel better!I know I would have welcomed 
  someone that gave a damn about how I really felt!And I would 
  have liked to have known that I was not alone in how I felt 
  too.I also would have been reassured to know that there were 
  people working to make things better for women in the future 
  so that they didn't have to go through what I did.So 
  anyway, if you'd like to write a brief letter (can be less than a 
  page, or whatever you like) for me to include with my reply to 
  the ethics committee,to help get this research off the ground, 
  you can send it to me at:Ms Robyn Henriksen,P.O. Box 
  552,Geelong, Vic. 3220I have to send my reply to the 
  committee's 'concerns' in two weeks, so if you wanted to 
  contribute, it would have to be within that time.Thanks for 
  any support you can give,Robyn."  
   
  

  


  
  
  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Homebirth Story

[Rhonda]

   
  Yes well i think that cost needs to be a matter of priority - people 
  pay $1000's of dollars each year to fix their cars and houses etc so why 
  is it such a big deal to pay for your own physical and mental safety - (I 
  am refering here to paying a midwife! rather than getting cheap obstetric 
  abuse!)
   
  I am having to pay about $5000 to have my gallbladder out as I wont 
  go back to the hospital where i didn't pay a lot but had my son ripped 
  form my body.  Hmm - Just can't bring myself to go back there even 
  though I have my own surgeon.  I guess that saving a little on 
  George's birth is costing a lot more in the long run.  (Not that I 
  was given any choice as I had wanted to pay my own way and was told I 
  could not. Which is a big problem as women are not informed of their 
  choices.)  My husband also wont let me go back into that hospital and 
  has said - well we will just have to pull in our belts a bit and pay the 
  private fees even though we don't have cover.
   
  Not long ago we spent $2000+ on a new motor for our car to keep 
  it going so I figure that I am worth more to him than the car!  Nice 
  to know really!  LOL 
   
  Rhonda
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Saturday, January 
  18, 2003 01:26:48
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Homebirth Story
   Did you see how much some of them are paying their ob's? 
  This is out ofpocket that they can't claim back from their private 
  health insurance. Someof them are having to pay a $1,000 fee (non 
  claimable) on top of theirconsultations and birth fee. I'd much rather 
  pay that to a midwife anyday!That is a really depressing website 
  to visit!Jayne> Was pottering around 
  looking at Essential Baby website a few nights ago.A> true 
  education let me tell you. I'm really happy with the fact that 
  Ihave> had three births in a hosptial setting with a fantastic 
  supportive GP, no> stitches, a total of 20 mins CTG monitering in 
  the whole three labours(got> rid of that pretty quick) and no 
  vac ext's, forceps or LUSCS. Not even a> hint of induction for any 
  - they come too early! (39, 37, and 38 weeks> gestation). Needed 
  the analgesia though.>> Anyway, I'm stunned at the amount of 
  intervention these women accept and> even want. Multiple 
  ultrasounds, induction with prostin, synt is almost> 'normal', and 
  all before 41 weeks. There is a section on Birth Stories,and> 
  within the last week a story has gone up under the heading - my 
  fun> homebirth (or something like that). I think it's really well 
  written,> informative, and gives an insight into the committment 
  and midwife care of> this couple. Certainly a change from the other 
  stories.>--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
  Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] Research support request

[Rhonda]

  Dear List - 
  I am posting this for a friend of mine who is working hard to also 
  promote change.
  She has a limited amount of time to get this done asks that 
  anyone with first hand experience or professional knowledge of how 
  devastated women can be and how the opportunity to speak up about this 
  after a traumatic birth would NOT do "more harm than good".  She 
  needs this by the end of January.
   
  Here is her letter - Anyone who has the time to reply can post a 
  reply to her at the snail mail address listed.  Thank you so 
  much.   
  Rhonda.
   
  "Dear Rhonda,
   
  I basically need some letters from women who have had an emergency 
  caesarean saying that their delivery did lead them to feel distress 
  afterwards, and that they would have welcomed the opportunity to fill 
  out a questionnaire asking them about their true feelings - that it 
  would *not* have made them feel worse to do so.Currently, the 
  ethics committee (mostly men, with several doctors on board) is trying 
  to block my woman-benefiting research, by arguing that the increased 
  'distress' put upon women by asking them questions a month after the 
  birth is not outweighed by the potential benefits of the research 
  (which sounds awfully like an attempt to silence women's voices and 
  prevent change!).But I am arguing that not only are there huge 
  benefits to women overall from the research, but that it is not going 
  to harm emergency caesarean women, by asking them how they feel. 
  Rather, it might actually make them feel better!I know I would 
  have welcomed someone that gave a damn about how I really felt!And I 
  would have liked to have known that I was not alone in how I felt 
  too.I also would have been reassured to know that there were people 
  working to make things better for women in the future so that they 
  didn't have to go through what I did.So anyway, if you'd like 
  to write a brief letter (can be less than a page, or whatever you 
  like) for me to include with my reply to the ethics committee,to help 
  get this research off the ground, you can send it to me at:Ms 
  Robyn Henriksen,P.O. Box 552,Geelong, Vic. 3220I have to 
  send my reply to the committee's 'concerns' in two weeks, so if you 
  wanted to contribute, it would have to be within that time.Thanks for 
  any support you can give,Robyn."  
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] controlled parenting

[Rhonda]

  I have a friend who is bordering on anorexic and has a shocking diet 
  of a couple of meat pies, a roast potatoe and bread and vegemite and 
  maybe some lollies per day.  Add in the occasional Happy meal and 
  pizza and she seems to live on that just fine. 
  My daughter stayed witht hem once for 4 days and came home starving 
  hungry and saying that they only had "junk" food.  They said that 
  they had a roast one night but Katelyn complained that the only vegetables 
  were potatoe, corn and peas and that there was nothing healthy like 
  broccoli, pumpkin or carrot.  
  Each baby weighed at least 7lb.  She was on average about 45kgs 
  herself and about 5 foot tall. 
   
  She was never told to stop breastfeeding - managed to have 4 very 
  healthy babies and breastfed each one until he was 1yr old.  By the 
  time she stopped feeding - she was pregnant with the next.  I 
  think she fed the last one for longer.
   
  Never had formula and at 12 months she put them straight to a cup 
  milk and juice and that was it. Never had a bottle in her 
  house.  Didn't know how to use a bottle at all she told me once - "I 
  don't even know how to open one."
  LOL
   
  Rhonda
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, January 
  02, 2003 10:35:45
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] controlled parenting
   
  Thanks for the grin,Lynne!!
  My Doctors opinion that the goodness was gone 
  at 3months  is still alive and well - my neighbours daughter was 
  told by the same doctor to wean as the baby was taking too much out of 
  her (the mum was tired - bub 5 months old).
   
  I also lost weight after babies and used to 
  be told "its taking too much out of you- I would reply (with a vague 
  expression) "mostly just milk".
   
  Pinky
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Lynne Staff 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 
9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] 
controlled parenting

My GP as recently as 1991 told me to stop 
breastfeeding my then 5 month old son, because he was "sucking the 
goodness out of you" (I lose weight very quickly after birth), and 
"besides, it isn't doing him any good now - he needs more than your 
milk". During the pregnancy, at about 7 months, he advised me to begin 
preparing my nipples with methylated spirits and a nail brush. I sat 
there very calmly, and asked him if he would consider doing this to his 
scrotum..he was a little non-plussed to say the least. I explained 
to him that my nipples were just fine, they had fed two babies before, 
and they happened to be made of very sensitive tissue, as I was sure 
his scrotum was and I could not imagine inflicting this form of 
torture on myself, nor he on himself.
Unbelieveable..
 
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Darren Sunn 
  To: ozmidwifery 
  Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 
  7:23 AM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] controlled 
  parenting
  
  
  Pinky,
  Well I thought it would be good to give you an 
  up date on my friend who “was” practising “controlled crying”, and am 
  pleased to announce that she has almost completely ceased this ….. 
  
  We gave her a copy of your books and she said 
  that she read them but I’m not completely convinced that she actually 
  “read” them.
  
  On another front, she was told by her parents, 
  husband, in-laws, relatives, and some friends that ‘controlled crying’ 
  was the NORM!
  So you can understand that she believed that 
  this was the correct decision. 
  
  It’s a pity that such a majority of our society 
  seems to favour these ideas of parenting.
   
  In regards to 
  breastfeeding:
  
  Recently her mother in-law remarked “ You do 
  know that there is No goodness in breast milk after 3 months!”…To 
  which her husband stepped in and said, “She only continues due to the 
  comfort-factor!”
  
  When our friend was telling my wife and I this 
  story our jaws dropped to the floor and I guess she detected our 
  concern and attempted to soften the situation by adding “ Well I was 
  formula fed and there’s nothing wrong with me!”
  I bit my tongue while my partner couldn

Re: [ozmidwifery] controlled parenting

[Rhonda]

   
  One for the Dr!
   
  A Camel and an Elephant meet. The elephant asked the 
  camel:"Why do you have your breasts on your back?"The camel, 
  clearly irritated, replies:"What a silly question from someone who has 
  a dick on his face."
   
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, January 
  02, 2003 09:16:47
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] controlled parenting
   
  My GP as recently as 1991 told me to stop 
  breastfeeding my then 5 month old son, because he was "sucking the 
  goodness out of you" (I lose weight very quickly after birth), and 
  "besides, it isn't doing him any good now - he needs more than your milk". 
  During the pregnancy, at about 7 months, he advised me to begin preparing 
  my nipples with methylated spirits and a nail brush. I sat there very 
  calmly, and asked him if he would consider doing this to his 
  scrotum..he was a little non-plussed to say the least. I explained to 
  him that my nipples were just fine, they had fed two babies before, and 
  they happened to be made of very sensitive tissue, as I was sure 
  his scrotum was and I could not imagine inflicting this form of 
  torture on myself, nor he on himself.
  Unbelieveable..
   
    
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Darren Sunn 
To: ozmidwifery 
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 
7:23 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] controlled 
parenting


Pinky,
Well I thought it would be good to give you an up 
date on my friend who “was” practising “controlled crying”, and am 
pleased to announce that she has almost completely ceased this ….. 

We gave her a copy of your books and she said 
that she read them but I’m not completely convinced that she actually 
“read” them.

On another front, she was told by her parents, 
husband, in-laws, relatives, and some friends that ‘controlled crying’ 
was the NORM!
So you can understand that she believed that this 
was the correct decision. 

It’s a pity that such a majority of our society 
seems to favour these ideas of parenting.
 
In regards to 
breastfeeding:

Recently her mother in-law remarked “ You do know 
that there is No goodness in breast milk after 3 months!”…To which her 
husband stepped in and said, “She only continues due to the 
comfort-factor!”

When our friend was telling my wife and I this 
story our jaws dropped to the floor and I guess she detected our concern 
and attempted to soften the situation by adding “ Well I was formula fed 
and there’s nothing wrong with me!”
I bit my tongue while my partner couldn’t help 
herself and began to calmly explain the benefits of 
breastfeeding.

I’m glad to say that at least the swing is going 
towards the acceptance of breastfeeding and not away from it… It may 
take some time but if we all make an effort to support mothers and 
families then we will all benefit in the end.

Darren

 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] controlled parenting

[Rhonda]

   
  Metholated Spirits!  My gosh that is a poison and should not be 
  used on the skin at all.  PERIOD!!!
  We have fun explaining this to people who say that they should use it 
  on their new piercing.  It should not be used on any tissue and not 
  broken skin or NIPPLES!!!  My goodness I am shocked!
  Rhonda.
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, January 
  02, 2003 09:16:47
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] controlled parenting
   
  My GP as recently as 1991 told me to stop 
  breastfeeding my then 5 month old son, because he was "sucking the 
  goodness out of you" (I lose weight very quickly after birth), and 
  "besides, it isn't doing him any good now - he needs more than your milk". 
  During the pregnancy, at about 7 months, he advised me to begin preparing 
  my nipples with methylated spirits and a nail brush. I sat there very 
  calmly, and asked him if he would consider doing this to his 
  scrotum..he was a little non-plussed to say the least. I explained to 
  him that my nipples were just fine, they had fed two babies before, and 
  they happened to be made of very sensitive tissue, as I was sure 
  his scrotum was and I could not imagine inflicting this form of 
  torture on myself, nor he on himself.
  Unbelieveable..
   
    
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Darren Sunn 
To: ozmidwifery 
Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 
7:23 AM
Subject: [ozmidwifery] controlled 
parenting


Pinky,
Well I thought it would be good to give you an up 
date on my friend who “was” practising “controlled crying”, and am 
pleased to announce that she has almost completely ceased this ….. 

We gave her a copy of your books and she said 
that she read them but I’m not completely convinced that she actually 
“read” them.

On another front, she was told by her parents, 
husband, in-laws, relatives, and some friends that ‘controlled crying’ 
was the NORM!
So you can understand that she believed that this 
was the correct decision. 

It’s a pity that such a majority of our society 
seems to favour these ideas of parenting.
 
In regards to 
breastfeeding:

Recently her mother in-law remarked “ You do know 
that there is No goodness in breast milk after 3 months!”…To which her 
husband stepped in and said, “She only continues due to the 
comfort-factor!”

When our friend was telling my wife and I this 
story our jaws dropped to the floor and I guess she detected our concern 
and attempted to soften the situation by adding “ Well I was formula fed 
and there’s nothing wrong with me!”
I bit my tongue while my partner couldn’t help 
herself and began to calmly explain the benefits of 
breastfeeding.

I’m glad to say that at least the swing is going 
towards the acceptance of breastfeeding and not away from it… It may 
take some time but if we all make an effort to support mothers and 
families then we will all benefit in the end.

Darren

 
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Info re gall stones

[Rhonda]

  Thanks for that.
  I have an appointment with a surgeon on Friday but am thinking of 
  trying the "non surgical remedy" that they suggest.  Knowin g it is 
  one large stone does not help much as I am a little worried it may get 
  stuck and hurt.  
  I am not sure I found the page that you were talking about as I 
  couldn't find that name but I did find some interesting info.
  Could you check and link me to that exact page?  I will then 
  have another look.
  What are your thoughts on it?
   
  Does anyone else have any advice on it?
   
  I read the following site which was quite interesting
   
  http://www.herbalcleanse.com.au/articles/non-surgical_removal_gall_stones.htm
   
  Any thoughts?  
   
  Thanks
  Rhonda
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, 
  January 01, 2003 16:58:58
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] 
  Info re gall stones
   RhondaJust opened my Women's Health Advisory Network 
  (WHAS) Newsletter. There isa whole page on "Gall Stones: What causes 
  them and what you can do" byMargaret Jainska ND. Briefly she 
  says: Gall stones are an extremely common condition. It isestimated 
  that one in ten people have gall stones. Most people have whatare 
  called "silent stones", which cause no symptoms, but are detected 
  duringa check-up, or other examination.She goes on to 
  demonstrate the different stones and their treatment.I would be 
  happy to Fax you the page or you could go on online towww.whas.com.au or telephone 02 4655 
  8699 or Fax 02 4655 8855 the address is19 Little Street, Camden, NSW 
  2570. Hope this helps. Incidentally - Had an episode of spasmodic 
  pain myself yesterday, relievedafter 8 hours by drinking grapefruit 
  juice over the day. Think it startedbecause of some dietary changes 
  over Xmas. Indulgence in Xmas Cake inparticular probably altered my 
  fat levels which means my liver and gallbladder works hard to 
  eliminate the increased saturated fat load.Dr Sandra Cabot has 
  some good books that help with these and many otherproblems. She has a 
  great way of explaining what happens to our bodiesmetabolically for a 
  whole range of matters. Her email is[EMAIL PROTECTED] or www.sandracabot.comHope this 
  is helpfulRobyn ThompsonMelbourne MidwiferySpecialist 
  Services Pty Ltd (abn 34 007 423 994)Independent Midwifery 
  PracticeMidwife Practitioner* Homebirth * Lactation* 
  Maternal & Child Healthwww.melbmidwifery.com.au[EMAIL PROTECTED]





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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Re: [ozmidwifery] Bad week got worse and worse!!!

[Rhonda]

  







  Well, we have had a lovely day - me spending most of it on my back 
  before finally going to the Dr and getting a shot of pethadine for the 
  pain.  Now it is managable but still there and I am able to walk 
  around without troo much pain.  Just a bit groggy.
  I asked about taking a liquid to break down the stone although it is 
  so big the Dr said it would probably take 6months to get it down in size 
  and in that time I would go niuts witht he pain.  So I guess removal 
  will be the way to go - unfortunately.
  The kids have had a lovely day and enjoyed their gifts so I am 
  happy!
  All is well as it can be - thanks for the warm thoughts.
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Wednesday, 
  December 25, 2002 12:29:56
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Bad week got worse and worse!!!
   
  Oh, Rhonda, what CAN we say? Can you check out natural 
  methods before opting for removal of organ? 
  Giant hugs and love to you, and I hope you're all smiles 
  and very well soon.
  Aviva
  - Original Message - 
  From: Rhonda 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2002 8:04 PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Bad week got worse and 
  worse!!!
  
  


  

  
Just one more thing...
 
To top off our bad week Katelyn came home from School with 
headlice too.  Just to give me even more to do in treating her 
hair and everyone elses  So - George had such a clean head 
before he split it open ~ that was good to know!  
LOL  See - something good always comes out of a negative!
 
Just had to add that to my bad week senario for the laugh 
factor! 
 
This Christmas is going to be soo good from this point on 
absolutely nothing can go wrong coz it just wouldn't dare!  
Nobody would DARE do anything wrong now.  *grin*
 
Luv
    Rhonda.
 

  

  
  

  


  
 

  


  
  
   
   
   
   
   
   










  





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[ozmidwifery] Bad week got worse and worse!!!

[Rhonda]

  







  Just one more thing...
   
  To top off our bad week Katelyn came home from School with headlice 
  too.  Just to give me even more to do in treating her hair and 
  everyone elses  So - George had such a clean head before he split it 
  open ~ that was good to know!  LOL  See - something good 
  always comes out of a negative!
   
  Just had to add that to my bad week senario for the laugh 
  factor! 
   
  This Christmas is going to be soo good from this point on absolutely 
  nothing can go wrong coz it just wouldn't dare!  Nobody would DARE do 
  anything wrong now.  *grin*
   
  Luv
  Rhonda.
   










  





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[ozmidwifery] Bad week - got worse!!!

[Rhonda]

  Shall try the grapefruit juice - Anything is worth a try as I hate 
  being on painkillers for any length of time.
   
  They did the ultrasound and found only one stone - diameter 2.6cm and 
  it is still giving me some pain.  Ouch!
  I am on painkillers and have been advised to look into having the op 
  to remove the gall bladder.  Got home from hospital today (second 
  time in 2 days) and George my three yr old fell off a wall and split his 
  head open.  It needed glueing up so back to A&E we went - 3 
  times in 2 days.  Just love that hospital!  NOT!  (they say 
  things run in threes - Hmm)
   
  Thank you all for the advice and notes 
   
  The thing that seems to make mine "attack" is having an empty 
  stomach. As I get 'attacks' in the morning generally and it has played up 
  badly now after having tonsil problems and not eating much, I am sure this 
  was a factor as i often get pains int eh morning and had been putting it 
  down to being hungry!
  I generally have a low fat diet anyway but will try to cut down more 
  now.
   
  Lets hope that nothing else can possible go wrong.  LOL
   
  Merry Christmas to all - Thanks to you all for your support and 
  friendship throught the year!
   
  Luv
  Rhonda with her rather large troublesome gallstone and George with 
  his rather large headache!
  
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Tuesday, December 
  24, 2002 13:50:19
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Bad week!
   
  Drinking grapefruit juice has been 
  successful in reducing and alleviating gall bladder spasms, the pain 
  settles reasonably quickly
   
  here's to pain free 
  comfort
   
  Robyn
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lois 
WattisSent: Monday, December 23, 2002 7:40 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Bad 
    week!
Hi Rhonda, sorry to hear you've been crook. 
They will probably do an ultrasound to look for gallstones.  
You will probably be advised of dietary precautions to avoid 
exacerbating the condition if it exists.  Surgery may be indicated 
in the future if you continue to have 'attacks".  Gall bladder 
removal can now be done by 'keyhole surgery' laproscopically and if done 
that way is not such a big op nowadays.  I hope you continue to 
improve, and have a comfortable, and happy Christmas.  (Go easy on 
the fatty foods, and rich puddings etc.).  My observation over the 
years is that there are increased incidents of gall bladder attacks and 
appendicitis around Christmas time.  I'm sure is associated with 
the changes to peoples' diets.  Kind regards, Lois

      - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rhonda 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Monday, December 23, 2002 
  9:28 PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Bad 
  week!
  
  


  
 
 
Does anybody know anything much about gaul stones?  is 
that how it is spelt??
 
anyway - I have had kind of a bad week
 

On Tuesday i worked and it was really busy - i came home 
very tired.
On Wednesday I was even busier in the shop and came home 
extra extra tired. 
Thursday my car broke down in the morning and I had to run 
around a lot to get Geoff to the shop and Katelyn from 
School - (her last day) and Georgre from Day Care (his last day) 
and then pick geoff up - got really tired and a sore throat 
started. A rather hectic day.
Friday throat became unbearable and got aches and pains all 
over
Saturday aches and pains were worse and I went to the 
DR.  Hardly able to move.  He said I had 
tonsilitis.
My stomch pains especially in the right side got worse and 
worse.
Sunday they wer worse but antibiotics had helped the throat 
and other pains.
Monday the stomach pains were so bad I was in tears in bed 
in the morning and got Susan to take me to the hospital (thought 
it may be appendix)
Spent most of today in Hospital - not appenidisitis but it 

[ozmidwifery] Bad week!

[Rhonda]

   
   
  Does anybody know anything much about gaul stones?  is that how 
  it is spelt??
   
  anyway - I have had kind of a bad week
   
  
  On Tuesday i worked and it was really busy - i came home very 
  tired.
  On Wednesday I was even busier in the shop and came home extra extra 
  tired. 
  Thursday my car broke down in the morning and I had to run around a 
  lot to get Geoff to the shop and Katelyn from School - (her last day) 
  and Georgre from Day Care (his last day) and then pick geoff up - got 
  really tired and a sore throat started. A rather hectic day.
  Friday throat became unbearable and got aches and pains all 
over
  Saturday aches and pains were worse and I went to the DR.  
  Hardly able to move.  He said I had tonsilitis.
  My stomch pains especially in the right side got worse and 
  worse.
  Sunday they wer worse but antibiotics had helped the throat and other 
  pains.
  Monday the stomach pains were so bad I was in tears in bed in the 
  morning and got Susan to take me to the hospital (thought it may be 
  appendix)
  Spent most of today in Hospital - not appenidisitis but it may be 
  gaul stones.  I have to go to the hospital in the morning to have an 
  ultrasound to see.
  Don't know what to expect in the morning or what they will do??
  any idea?
   
  Rhonda
  PS - Merry Christmas to all!





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Rhonda]

  Hi Cas, it sounds like you have everything covered and are prepared 
  for anything!  In which case I recon that you will be fine and 
  believe that you can have the birth that you planned.
   
  I was actually in the public system and was talking generally about 
  "ob's" and the scare tacticts etc that they use.  I had wanted to go 
  private but was told that I would get the best care if I went public after 
  having Katelyn at 27 weeks due to severe PE, I guess I should have checked 
  things out more but I went in with the blind faith that because I had such 
  a terrible time with Katelyn that they would all be especially careful not 
  to ruin it for me on my second attempt.  WRONG!  I am glad that 
  you are aware and educated and can therefore have so much more power and 
  support.
   
  Good Luck!
   
  I like the tape idea!!!   What a way to really be able to 
  come back latter.  And you can be as up front as you like as you know 
  what they say will be able to be refered back to.  For your own sake 
  if nothing else.
   
  However, it is sad that women are going to have to go to 
  such measures to protect themselves from Dr's.  Rather a sad state of 
  affairs. 
   
  Again GOOD LUCK - you have my best wishes.
  Rhonda.
   
   
   
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, December 
  15, 2002 23:17:11
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
   
  Rhonda,
   
  I can understand your frustration and 
  pain at not getting the birth you wanted and I can also understand your 
  skepticism of the private system given what you have been through (as I 
  can understand the other skeptics on this mailing list). However, I 
  believe in myself and in my ability to birth and will have wonderful 
  support from a fantastic midwife and my husband. 
   
  Given my past experience, I cannot 
  afford to be intimidated into things and have made the hospital midwife in 
  charge of labour suites and my doctor very aware of this (FYI: my midwife 
  checked my doctor out on the midwife grapevine and he is deemed "okay" 
  which is encouraging. Are any Obs deemed better than that by midwives?). 
  
   
  My other thought was to take in a mini 
  tape recorder (which my husband can carry in his pocket) so that all 
  conversations can be recorded secretly. It may not stand up in court but 
  it could scare the shit out of them if they say something confrontational 
  and are then told what they just said was recorded. : ).
   
  I am actually in touch with an 
  investigative journalist at the moment about this whole issue, so maybe 
  we'll see an expose sometime next year : ). It would be just the thing to 
  help NMAP along.
   
  About Salangor I would love to 
  have gone there but my husband once again said ít was too far away. A very 
  good friend of mine birtthed there and had a wonderful birth experience in 
  the water. Why aren't there any Salangor's in Brisbane? It would be s 
  popular here too.
   
  Anyway, thanks to those who have 
  offered encouraging words... that's really what I need right now and I 
  appreciate it; what I don't need to hear is that my chances of success are 
  impossible in a private setting... I don't believe that for a second as I 
  know what I am capable of. I also appreciate knowing about what tactics 
  can be used to manipulate a labouring woman because at least I will be 
  prepared to face it without fear.
   
  One thing I wanted to mention is that 
  there are alot of women in the private system who need help and support. I 
  just spent an afternoon talking a friend of mine through the things she is 
  likely to face in the private system as opposed to the public and having 
  first hand knowlege of that has really helped me help other women. She had 
  her last baby at the RBH with an 18 hour labour and is now going to the 
  Mater Private because she was talked out of going to the RBH by her 
  mother. She is due in February and doesn't want to switch now but was 
  really grateful for the information I was able to give her. At least she 
  has an advantage in that she knows what her body is capable of and how 
  long a labour can go on for without any distress for mother or 
  baby.
   
  I mentioned a couple of names of 
  people who may be able to advocate for her and I really hope she takes my 
  advice because I think having a knowledgeable person by your side can be 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Rhonda]

  I really think he has not forgotten, more likely his perception 
  is just one of "how stupid women are".
   
  Well, he and my husband hit it off really badly as my hubby had been 
  supportive of my wishes and then I did put in a full complaint about him 
  so he knows exactly what I said to many many people about him.  I 
  have quoted him to so many people and his words went back to him through 
  the medical practitioners board so he had to wriggle a bit! 
  He seemed to have got the message that what he did was wrong - 'sort 
  of'.
  He had his solicitors advise the medical practitioners board that 
  they could not reprimand him unless I had absolute proof.  So he must 
  have been feeling guilty to a point.
   
  I wondered why he would come to my shop and pass us looking in at me 
  now after 3 yrs.  The last time he did that was when I innitially 
  complained to a colegue of his and he chased me down the road!  
  (hmm!)
   
  Anyway, I worked out that it was the day after my husband had a 
  really really nice (thumbs up) letter published by one of his customers 
  saying how professional he was and how he explained everything and 
  did an outstanding job etc.  I am sure it was not coincidence that he 
  walked past the next day.  A very weird man!  Makes my skin 
  crawl.
   
  I have writen my story and will one day conclude it - somehow I can't 
  seem to find the right ending and so it sits waiting for something to 
  happen in my life to finish it - maybe I will have a VBAC one day and have 
  a happy ending LOL  or maybe I will just sit down one day and find 
  the right words.  I don't know.
       
  Thanks
  Rhonda.
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, December 
  15, 2002 14:04:30
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
   
  Hi Rhonda
  I can't help but reply to your 
  statement below.  I know exactly how you feel and can identify with 
  the arrogance of the obstetrician's who play power games.  I 
  really think he has not forgotten, more likely his perception is just 
  one of "how stupid women are".  Likewise the harder a midwife fights 
  as an advocate within the hospital system the more labelled she 
  becomes,.  The positive side of this is - as you get older there 
  seems to be some sort of invisible respect for experience because 
  your still keep popping up in the sheltered hospital world.  
  
   
  Why don't you write your story, there 
  are many things you can do with it.  Publish in a medical journal or 
  a midwifery journal, in the local paper so the obstetrician can read it, 
  you could even send him a copy.  Stories often bring fresh light and 
  a feeling of relief.
   
  kindest regards,    
  Robyn
  
-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of 
RhondaSent: Sunday, December 15, 2002 1:07 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
[ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

  
  

  I would have to disagree with that statement Sally - with all 
  due respect it is a bit too simplistic.
   
  Unfortunately, that is disempowering to me and probably 
  others like me.
  Those of us who have had 'disasterous' experiences not even 
  through lack of knowledge or power but more through lack of 
  support and due to the actions of others.  
  Where you are and who is there to support or abuse you does 
  make a huge difference.
   
  Really evil people who have the power to intimidate you and 
  lie to you even if you know it is a lie and you know they are just 
  saying things to intimidate, they can hurt you and make your 
  birth experience "the worst experience of your life" no 
  matter how powerful, determined and educated you are. 
   
  The harder you fight it and the more power you display the 
  more 'difficult' you are percieved to be which leads to what these 
  professionals call a "conflict situation" since they are not 
  prefessional enough to prevent this they then blame the woman and 
  ensure that she does not have a 'good' experience. (Childish but 
  true!)
   
  The "ob" who abused me still haunts me and went past my shop 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Rhonda]

  That does make more sence Sally and I can understand where you are 
  coming from.
  I think with support people such as yourself it would be hard for any 
  woman to have a bad experience.
  Pity that the midwives such as yourself are spread so thinly across 
  the globe that many women are not fortunate enough to have supportive 
  people to advocate for them.
  The 'system' seems to be able to disempower women so easily with 
  terms like 'routine' and 'policy'.  
   
  I recon the back paddock looks really good to me - no routine or 
  policy to fight there!  Maybe the odd sheep to add support.  
  LOL
   
  Totally totally off track now - 
  "Sheep"  - Reminds me of when katelyn came home.  One day 
  she was crying a lot and as she was tiny it was almost the first good cry 
  she had ever had.  She was about 11 weeks old ( so 2 weeks before her 
  due date) she was just under 6lb by this time actually reached 6lb on her 
  due date.  
  To settle her down I took her for a walk in the paddock and my sheep 
  (pets) heard her crying and they all came running over and as I bent down 
  to them they all looked up and sniffed at her and rubbed around my 
  legs.  Her tiny little cry seemed to them to be like a lamb and they 
  each checked her out as if to see if she was theirs or if she was OK and 
  it was really special.  Each one of these sheep had been sick lambs 
  and had lay on my lounge floor and been gavage fed by me to keep them 
  alive and they were all so interested in this tiny baby who had also been 
  so sick.
   
  Just one of my special paddock memories! *grin*
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, December 
  15, 2002 21:05:05
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
   
  
  Rhonda,
  
  I acknowledge 
  your thoughts but what you are talking about is 
  disempowerment.
  
  What I am 
  suggesting is that empowerment is the vital ingredient. I think we are 
  both talking about the same thing from opposite sides of the mountain. The 
  place of birth is not  important if the woman is 
  powerful
  
  If you are in 
  your power you can birth well in a private hospital, or a public hospital, 
  or in the back paddock. 
  
  It is difficult 
  to fight the system and can be dehumanizing and abusive. Absolutely true. 
  The system must be challenged but at the end of the day your power is what 
  brings a ‘good’ birth.
  
  The people around 
  you certainly make the difference. To support your power or to undermine 
  it. Some women are completely supported but are not ready for that 
  transformation that the birth experience bring. Others are ready for the 
  experience and have it stolen away from them.
  
  It was a simple 
  statement but the truth at the end of the day. A powerful woman can birth 
  well anywhere.
  
  Love to you, 
  Warrior Woman Rhonda.
  
  Sally
   





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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[ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Rhonda]

  I would have to disagree with that statement Sally - with all due 
  respect it is a bit too simplistic.
   
  Unfortunately, that is disempowering to me and probably others 
  like me.
  Those of us who have had 'disasterous' experiences not even through 
  lack of knowledge or power but more through lack of support and due to the 
  actions of others.  
  Where you are and who is there to support or abuse you does make a 
  huge difference.
   
  Really evil people who have the power to intimidate you and lie to 
  you even if you know it is a lie and you know they are just saying things 
  to intimidate, they can hurt you and make your birth experience "the 
  worst experience of your life" no matter how powerful, determined and 
  educated you are. 
   
  The harder you fight it and the more power you display the more 
  'difficult' you are percieved to be which leads to what these 
  professionals call a "conflict situation" since they are not prefessional 
  enough to prevent this they then blame the woman and ensure that she does 
  not have a 'good' experience. (Childish but true!)
   
  The "ob" who abused me still haunts me and went past my shop the 
  other day and gave me one of those "hurumph" type looks.  Over three 
  years now and even he has not forgotten what he did.
   
  I guess forward planning helps but, nobody told me that they 
  could be so cruel.  How many others go in with rose coloured 
  glasses on thinking that they are there to 
  help?Once in that situation it is then almost 
  impossible for even the most powerful woman to have a good experience 
  unless she does everthing 'they' want her to do and then it may not be 
  what she planned.
   
  As soon as any woman asserts herself against the powers that be it 
  becomes a conflict and no conflict is good.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Sunday, December 
  15, 2002 09:47:59
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: FW: 
  [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
   At the end of the day, the only thing that you need to 
  have a 'good'birth experience is yourself. A powerful woman can do 
  it anywhere.Love Sally-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  On Behalf Of AndreaQuanchiSent: Sunday, 15 December 2002 5:28 
  AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: 
  Re: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital What a 
  drastic generalisation to suggest that a woman cant have a good birth 
  experience in a private hospital. I know the statistics support that 
  the intervention rates are higher but I bet those at Selangor 
  wouldargue that they have woman who have the births they want and 
  I had one of my children under a private obs when I was denied access 
  to a midwifery birthing program because I didn't meet their criteria 
  and had an equally good birth as bote the others.Andrea 
  Quanchi--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE 
  Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe.--This mailing list is sponsored 
  by ACE Graphics.Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> 
  to subscribe or unsubscribe..





	
	
	
	
	
	
	




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RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Rhonda]

   
  Yes well laws!
  I can tell you through a lot of complaint letters and investigations 
  that ...
   
  A, if you put it on the news or metion it publicly and infer at all 
  who did it 
  then you can be done for liable unless you have evidence and I mean 
  
  by that absolute proof.
   
  B, to have absolute proof is darn near impossible unless you 
  video everything the Dr sdays to you.  (Something I would 
  seriously consider!)
  A tory I heard was that an Ob refused to let women have vidoe's in at 
  his births
  because they had on video a case where the Ob accidentally cut the 
  baby's
  finger off with the cord.  He had no come back because it was on 
  video.
   
  C, even midwives who are there at the time may some how disappear 
  
  and others involved have sudden lapses of memory about things that 
  
  are said to intimidate so video is the only way to have absolute 
  proof.
   
  D, I was left for 7 hours waiting for the Ob to rupture the 
  membrane and assist my labour - I kept saying, "Where is he?"   
  There is proof of this!
  They seemed to think that was Ok because I was labouring fine but 
  when the
  Ob did come in he said, "Well, you haven't had it yet so we had 
  better do a C/S."
  That was it - trial over and the fight began but as I gave in and had 
  the C/S (a fair few hours of argueing latter)  I had no prrof that I 
  could have delivered and as I have never delivered a baby was told that 
  there was no prrof that I ever could deliver a baby (maybe my body can't 
  do it!) so they couldn't proove that I didn't need the C/S.  No proof 
  so I can't say anything bad about them - they were therefore acting in my 
  best interest and i was the one being difficult.
   
  Funny how the LAW works isn't it!
   
  Rhonda.
   
   
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Friday, December 
  13, 2002 09:22:50
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
   
  Rhonda,
   
  I am appalled at how they treated you. Isn't there a law 
  against intimidating a labouring woman? I am lucky that I am going to the 
  Mater private which is also in the same building as the public hospital. 
  So, if they do give me problems we can just be wheeled down the hall or 
  like you say, find a nice spot outside : ). I am so lucky to have my 
  midwife there as well.
   
  I can tell you one thing, if they do try to bully me or 
  threaten me, it will be on the news the next day! However, I am fairly 
  confident that won't be necessary.
   
  Thanks for your message.
   
  Cas.
  

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of 
RhondaSent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 11:47 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

  
  

   
  Cas wrote - 
   
  Anyway, I am wondering if 
  private "patients" can be refused treatment if they do not consent 
  to monitoring or IV lines. After all, what are they going to do, 
  throw a pregnant woman out on the street?
   
  Hi Cas, I am really laughing! 
  
  I was told when I had refused 
  Iv lines etc (as a public patient) that the only way I would get 
  to deliver my baby (or get the Dr's to do anything) and not have 
  the second c/s that the dr's were insisting was the only thing 
  they would do and that "he" would make sure I got a dead baby - If 
  I did not agree to it.  Anyway, i was told I should walk out 
  on to the street!  Unfortunately after 24 hours of 
  argueing in labour i gave in and did not have the fight to get 
  out.  Looking back i wish I had - wouldn't that be priceless 
  - the looks on their faces as you walk back out onto the street 
  because they wont treat you with respect or listen to your 
  wishes.
   
  More women should walk back 
  out onto the street - WHAT A PROTEST THAT WOULD BE!
       
  HOPE ALL GOES WELL FOR YOU.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

RE: [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital

[Rhonda]

   
  Cas wrote - 
   
  Anyway, I am wondering if private 
  "patients" can be refused treatment if they do not consent to monitoring 
  or IV lines. After all, what are they going to do, throw a pregnant woman 
  out on the street?
   
  Hi Cas, I am really laughing! 
  
  I was told when I had refused Iv lines 
  etc (as a public patient) that the only way I would get to deliver my baby 
  (or get the Dr's to do anything) and not have the second c/s that the dr's 
  were insisting was the only thing they would do and that "he" would make 
  sure I got a dead baby - If I did not agree to it.  Anyway, i was 
  told I should walk out on to the street!  Unfortunately after 24 
  hours of argueing in labour i gave in and did not have the fight to get 
  out.  Looking back i wish I had - wouldn't that be priceless - the 
  looks on their faces as you walk back out onto the street because they 
  wont treat you with respect or listen to your wishes.
   
  More women should walk back out onto 
  the street - WHAT A PROTEST THAT WOULD BE!
   
  HOPE ALL GOES WELL FOR YOU.
   
  Regards
  Rhonda.
   
  ---Original Message---
   
  
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: Thursday, 
  December 12, 2002 23:19:26
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: 
  [ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital
   
  I am new to this group as of today but wanted to comment on this 
  thread. My second baby is due in April, I am VBAC and we are going to 
  a private hospital in Brisbane (I can hear the gasps already : ) ). 
  Anyway, I am wondering if private "patients" can be refused treatment if 
  they do not consent to monitoring or IV lines. After all, what are they 
  going to do, throw a pregnant woman out on the street? I am taking a 
  private traditional midwife with me to the hospital to provide birth 
  support and advocate on my behalf (the hospital is aware of this and has 
  so far been supportive) so hopefully this will make refusal much easier. I 
  am not entirely sure I can talk my doctor around before the birth, but 
  will try anyway. He seems pretty reasonable overall (for an obgyn anyway). 
  He's even agreed to deliver breech (probably the only doc in Brisbane 
  who still does breech deliveries, although not all that often anymore 
  because most women assume breech means cut).
   
  Please let me know if anyone has any thoughts on 
  this.
   
  Cheers,
   
  Cas McCullough
  

-Original Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robyn 
ThompsonSent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 7:58 
PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: 
[ozmidwifery] Re: mothers rights in public hospital 

This is an interesting topic and really good educational 
programme about rights and responsibilities would be 
good.
 
The word Policy is often used in the hospital system as a means 
to take control of women and make the staff feel safe from possible 
litigation.
 
A Policy is not a legally binding document, it is a blanket 
statement for the population, written to protect the hospital and the 
staff.  The women who are forced to conform to such 
Policies have not had any hand in writing such documentation, their 
individual needs are negated.
 
Everyone has the right to say NO, nothing should ever be done to 
anyone without informed consent.  If we could just make all women 
feel confident to use this approach when they get into a situation where 
they say and mean NO we would be empowering these women to make informed 
decisions. The trouble is, it's quite scary when they feel 
vulnerable in the hospital system with all the "experts" 
hovering.
 
Routine Fetal monitoring is a prime example.  Compliance to 
20 minutes of fetal monitoring on arrival is the expected norm here 
and is hospital Policy.  In reality fetal monitoring does not have 
to be done at any time if the mother says NO.

  Regular auscultation with her consent and understanding of the 
  progress of labour is be more valuable. 
  Routine 4 hourly vaginal examination is another where women 
  should say NO. 
  Giving a baby formula without written and informed consent is 
  yet another and so on and so on
Just my comments,    Robyn
   

  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Debby