Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Mary Murphy]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water



I followed up with Ethel Burns and she is going to send me the data 
collection tool.  If anyone else is interested in being part of this U.K 
and international data base,, contact Ethel at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cheers, 
MM

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[jireland]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water



Dera JULIE COULD U PLEASE send the list of web 
sites thankyou jan 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Julie 
  Clarke 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 9:15 
  AM
  Subject: FW: [ozmidwifery] Birth through 
  water
  
  
  Dear 
  Rosemary 
  Desert Rose Midwife at 
  Alice Springs  - message for you 
  below – please scroll down.
  hug
  
  Julie 
  Clarke
  Childbirth 
  and Parenting Educator
  Transition 
  into Parenthood
  9 
  Withybrook Pl
  Sylvania  NSW  2224
  T. 
  (02) 9544 6441
  F 
  (02) 9544 9257
  M. 
  0401 265 530
  email 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: Shea 
  Caplice [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
  Sent: Monday, 10 February 
  2003 7:55 PMTo: Julie 
  ClarkeSubject: Re: 
  [ozmidwifery] Birth through water
   
  
Thanks 
julie I am not on Oz midwifery so my suggestion is that she tries to come to 
the waterbirth day in Adelaide on Feb 27th which covers all those questions. 
My email is on the back of the video so if you would like to let the list 
know I am open for inquiries. Thank you so much for passing the info on I am 
unable to be on oz midwifery as it creates too much traffic for 
meBlessings SheaDear SheaI saw this on ozmid 
and thought I’d forward it on to you – Would you have any advice to 
offer?Julie 
ClarkeChildbirth and 
Parenting EducatorTransition into 
Parenthood9 
Withybrook PlSylvania 
 NSW  2224T. 
(02) 9544 6441F 
(02) 9544 9257M. 
0401 265 530email 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]-Original 
Message-From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Rosemary & Wayne 
WeckertSent: Saturday, 8 
February 2003 4:50 PMTo: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth through 
waterHello all you wise consumers and 
midwivesI am requesting information 
about birth through water in the public health system. Policies, procedures, 
protocols, learning packages or accreditation course for midwives. etc. etc. 
My interest for 2003 is to make this choice available in our hospital, or 
maybe it's a dream, or a perfomance development plan. Anyway any good texts 
or course providers. We have the video The Art of Birth produced by Shea 
Caplice and Teya Dusseldorp, very inspiring great to see Jan Robinson and 
others at work. I have to put the case to the medical team as well as 
hospital management, I know it will be a long process but we have to start 
somewhere. I will be working on the consumers as well through the Childbirth 
Education Association, who incidently have taken NMAP on board with an 
article in the latest newsletter and the petition being advertised in the 
office.A new midwife to our unit from 
England said our baths would not be suitable because of back care for the 
midwife! My response was that from what I've read the baby is birthed by the 
mum, hands off by the midwife, so why should there be a 
 problem!!Anyway just the first of many 
quips I'm sure.I'll be waiting patiently for a 
response.regards 
RosemaryDesert Rose 
MidwifeAlice Springs 

   

FW: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Julie Clarke]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water








Dear Rosemary Desert Rose Midwife at Alice Springs  - message for you below – please scroll down.

hug



Julie
 Clarke

Childbirth
and Parenting Educator

Transition
into Parenthood

9 Withybrook
Pl

Sylvania  NSW 
2224

T.
(02) 9544 6441

F (02)
9544 9257

M.
0401 265 530

email
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



 

-Original Message-
From: Shea Caplice
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Monday, 10 February 2003
7:55 PM
To: Julie Clarke
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth
through water

 



Thanks
julie I am not on Oz midwifery so my suggestion is that she tries to come to
the waterbirth day in Adelaide on Feb 27th which covers all those questions. My
email is on the back of the video so if you would like to let the list know I
am open for inquiries. Thank you so much for passing the info on I am unable to
be on oz midwifery as it creates too much traffic for me
Blessings 
Shea



Dear Shea

I saw this on ozmid and thought I’d forward
it on to you – Would you have any advice to offer?



Julie Clarke

Childbirth and Parenting Educator

Transition into Parenthood

9 Withybrook Pl

Sylvania  NSW  2224

T. (02) 9544 6441

F (02) 9544 9257

M. 0401 265 530

email [EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Rosemary & Wayne Weckert
Sent: Saturday, 8 February 2003
4:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth
through water



Hello all you wise consumers and midwives

I am requesting information about birth through water in the public
health system. Policies, procedures, protocols, learning packages or
accreditation course for midwives. etc. etc. My interest for 2003 is to make
this choice available in our hospital, or maybe it's a dream, or a perfomance
development plan. Anyway any good texts or course providers. We have the video
The Art of Birth produced by Shea Caplice and Teya Dusseldorp, very inspiring
great to see Jan Robinson and others at work. I have to put the case to the
medical team as well as hospital management, I know it will be a long process
but we have to start somewhere. I will be working on the consumers as well
through the Childbirth Education Association, who incidently have taken NMAP on
board with an article in the latest newsletter and the petition being
advertised in the office.

A new midwife to our unit from England said our baths would not be
suitable because of back care for the midwife! My response was that from what
I've read the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the midwife, so why
should there be a  problem!!

Anyway just the first of many quips I'm sure.

I'll be waiting patiently for a response.

regards Rosemary

Desert Rose Midwife

Alice Springs 



 

[ozmidwifery] Birth Through Water

[Jan Robinson]

Dear Rosemary and listers

Lots of waterbirth data has now been collected by Ethel Burns in the UK.
She is working out of the John Radcliffe Hospital at Oxford. As Ethel has
also made a great teaching video on the subject you might like to contact
her as she is a sharer of knowledge. I think her video is probably available
through Birth International.

I send Ethel all my waterbirth data to add to her waterbirth research
project as I feel it will produce some worthwhile evidence for midwife
practitioners of the future to use.

If any Australian waterbirthers want to contribute to the Oxford project
they can also contact Ethel and she will send you a data spreadsheet to fill
out and return to her.

Ethel's email address is;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Yours in better birthing
Jan


__
 Jan Robinson Phone/fax: 011+ 61+ 2+ 9546 4350
 Independent Midwife Practitioner e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 8 Robin Crescent www:   midwiferyeducation.com.au
 South Hurstville  NSW  2221  National Coordinator, ASIM
__

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RE: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water & ACMI SA study day

[Larry & Megan]

I've used water in my three labours and birthed two babies into water(at
home). During my ante natal time I discussed "catching" the baby a number of
times with my midwife. When birthing with love and trust as with my 2nd
baby(first homebirth), it came naturual to put my hands down and feel my
baby's head as it came out and touching the bub's hair floating in the
water. When the head was out and I was waiting for the last contraction to
birth the baby, I was thinking of the responsibility I had in being in
control of finishing the birth. I was scared, but so excited that only I was
going to know when the baby would come out, no coaching to push. The water
is really useful in supporting the weight of the baby as it comes out,
giving the mum time to put her hands around the babies body and bring it up
to her. I think water birth gives mum the chance to see the baby at the same
time as everybody else, unless someone is in the pool with goggles on.
I don't think the education needs to be much more than a relaxed discussion,
letting mum know it's there for her to do if she wants to and perhaps a
supportive reminder at the time of the birth.

Whilst on water birth, I am the consumer voice at SA's water birth study day
on Fri 28th Feb. Does anyone have any thoughts on what they see as being
important in sharing about using water during birth? I can be e-mailed on
[EMAIL PROTECTED] if people want to comment.

Thanks
Megan.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Ruth Cantrill
Sent: Sunday, 9 February 2003 9:24
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water






> A new midwife to our unit from England said our baths would not be
suitable
> because of back care for the midwife! My response was that from what I've
read
> the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the midwife, so why should
there
> be a  problem!!

how many women are willing to touch their baby during the process of birth
and immediately at the moment of birthing???

i can see that with much pre education this may be possible. However if it
is to happen the way you idealistically suggest then perhaps one criteria
for  in  water birthing will need to be that  women are fully educated
willing and cooperative in  handling her baby  at the moment of birth.

we do have to be careful in the asumptions we make about how women may feel
and be able to respond at the various stages of birthing.

Ruth


-
Ruth Cantrill
Griffith University
NATHAN QLD   4111

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

>

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[ozmidwifery] birth through water

[Rosemary & Wayne Weckert]

Thanks for the interesting chat about touching 
babies. Ruth I'm not being idealistic about this subject, I've just started 
the research. The back care issue, I mean't that the midwife wouldn't be 
spending a lot of time bending over the bath. She would only need to pick up the 
baby at birth if the mother didn't want to. I expect we would have to 
provide an education session for women contemplating birth through water. 
Thanks Lynne I'll be contacting you soon.
Checking the mail is diversional therapy because 
I'm supposed to be writing 'stuff' to go into my application for 
acreditation.  
Seeya
Rosemary
Project Desert Rose

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Aviva Sheb'a]

Hell's bells, I'd have been mortified if 
anyone wanted to touch my babies before I had! 
Aviva
- Original Message - 
From: Ruth Cantrill 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2003 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

> A new midwife to our unit from England said our baths 
would not be suitable> because of back care for the midwife! My response 
was that from what I've read> the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off 
by the midwife, so why should there> be a  problem!!how many 
women are willing to touch their baby during the process of birthand 
immediately at the moment of birthing???i can see that with much pre 
education this may be possible. However if itis to happen the way you 
idealistically suggest then perhaps one criteriafor  in  water 
birthing will need to be that  women are fully educatedwilling and 
cooperative in  handling her baby  at the moment of birth.we 
do have to be careful in the asumptions we make about how women may feeland 
be able to respond at the various stages of 
birthing.Ruth-Ruth 
CantrillGriffith UniversityNATHAN QLD   4111Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
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Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Marilyn Kleidon]

I think the various staff health and safety issues around  possible working
situations do/can  get in the way in a hospital setting. These include
lifting, even partial lifting or support, kneeling on the floor, bending
etc.. Having been at several different hospitals in the course of finding a
job I have been advised of many of these. At one hospital, i can't remember
which, i was told I would have to attend a particular lift workshop before
attending a woman in water as, in case she had to get out but needed
assistance there was an assisted lift protocol. This sounds arduous and
unnecessary to us home birthers, but I think we have to take ourselves out
of the context of attending 10 to 40 births in a 12 month period (where I
think back and leg strain etc. is minimised) and a midwife working full time
in birth suite. I am aware that the hospital management is probably less
interested in the midwives' well being than in possible workers compensation
cases, still I do think there is danger of repetitive work place injury if
we put ourselves in compromising positions frequently.

I agree too Ruth, in the practices i worked with in seattle and california,
i lifted the babies out of the water into their mothers arms more often than
the mother doing this. I don't think we need to make a rule (that the mother
lift the baby out) that this must happen in a water birth. I have wondered
if this was due to actually none (zero, nada) of the women I worked with
being midwives (lawyers, teachers, artists, accountants) where as it appears
to me, that many (note I did not say all or even most) homebirthers here are
actually midwives too.

marilyn



- Original Message -
From: "Ruth Cantrill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 2:53 PM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water


>
>
>
>
> > A new midwife to our unit from England said our baths would not be
suitable
> > because of back care for the midwife! My response was that from what
I've read
> > the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the midwife, so why should
there
> > be a  problem!!
>
> how many women are willing to touch their baby during the process of birth
> and immediately at the moment of birthing???
>
> i can see that with much pre education this may be possible. However if it
> is to happen the way you idealistically suggest then perhaps one criteria
> for  in  water birthing will need to be that  women are fully educated
> willing and cooperative in  handling her baby  at the moment of birth.
>
> we do have to be careful in the asumptions we make about how women may
feel
> and be able to respond at the various stages of birthing.
>
> Ruth
>
>
> -
> Ruth Cantrill
> Griffith University
> NATHAN QLD   4111
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> >
>
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> This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
>


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Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water(long)

[Mary Murphy]

You wrote:  "A new midwife to our unit from England said our baths would not
be suitable
> > because of back care for the midwife! My response was that from what
I've read
> > the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the midwife, so why should
there
> > be a  problem!!"
and:
> how many women are willing to touch their baby during the process of birth
> and immediately at the moment of birthing???

I have been assisting women to labour and give birth in water since 1987.
The "water tubs" we have used have been mostly demountable, portable pools
made of wood panel surrounds and plastic liners.  Ends up about 60cm high
and about 1-11/2 metres across when in use .  Plenty deep enough for the
mother and not too high for the midwife. Sometimes they are triangular spa
baths in their homes. The best one is the Birthing Centre at KEMH, (for
labour at least) I mostly kneel on a cusion on the floor and turn my body
sideways.   Initially I found that I was having lower back problems which I
thought was due to stretching across to the middle of the pool to rub backs,
not from reaching in and assisting the woman to pick up her baby.  I then
did some Alexander lessons and found that the lower back problems were
mostly caused by my poor posture and life long misuse of my body in every
day life, which was then exacerbated by the birthings I attended (both in
and out of water).  Since then I have utilised the husband and support
people to do most of the back rubbing. I don't do any particular education
to encourage the women to pick up their own babies.. some times they do and
often the don't.  I obviously have to look at that again.  Usually just a
firm "command"  to Pick Up The Baby is enough for a woman to snap out of the
birthing haze and do as I ask.  One thing I do  in the 2nd stage is  to NOT
tell the womant to "PUSH" but rather to encourage her to touch her own vulva
so she can be "in touch" with her body/baby when crowning and birthing.  It
really helps to ease the baby out.  I hope this has been helpful.  cheers,
Mary M



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Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Ruth Cantrill]

> A new midwife to our unit from England said our baths would not be suitable
> because of back care for the midwife! My response was that from what I've read
> the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the midwife, so why should there
> be a  problem!!

how many women are willing to touch their baby during the process of birth
and immediately at the moment of birthing???

i can see that with much pre education this may be possible. However if it
is to happen the way you idealistically suggest then perhaps one criteria
for  in  water birthing will need to be that  women are fully educated
willing and cooperative in  handling her baby  at the moment of birth.

we do have to be careful in the asumptions we make about how women may feel
and be able to respond at the various stages of birthing.

Ruth


-
Ruth Cantrill
Griffith University
NATHAN QLD   4111

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

> 

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Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Lieve Huybrechts]

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water



Hello Rosemary,
You can look at the following website
http://home.t-online.de/home/c.enning/
It’s in German, but you can contact Cormelia Enning, she is really an expert on waterbirth. She spoke on the Midwifery Today Conference. You can write her in Englisch.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  

I am wondering how you could make baths suitable for the back of the midwife :-)
In my homebirths, people don’t have to rebuilt there bathrooms to give birth. I have seen babys born in all kind of tubs. I sit comfortable somewhere near the parents and just the last minute I am going on my knees.

Warm regards
Lieve



On 08-02-2003 06:50, "Rosemary & Wayne Weckert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Hello all you wise consumers and midwives
I am requesting information about birth through water in the public health system. Policies, procedures, protocols, learning packages or accreditation course for midwives. etc. etc. My interest for 2003 is to make this choice available in our hospital, or maybe it's a dream, or a perfomance development plan. Anyway any good texts or course providers. We have the video The Art of Birth produced by Shea Caplice and Teya Dusseldorp, very inspiring great to see Jan Robinson and others at work. I have to put the case to the medical team as well as hospital management, I know it will be a long process but we have to start somewhere. I will be working on the consumers as well through the Childbirth Education Association, who incidently have taken NMAP on board with an article in the latest newsletter and the petition being advertised in the office.
A new midwife to our unit from England said our baths would not be suitable because of back care for the midwife! My response was that from what I've read the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the midwife, so why should there be a  problem!!
Anyway just the first of many quips I'm sure.
I'll be waiting patiently for a response.
regards Rosemary
Desert Rose Midwife
Alice Springs 

Re: [ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Lynne Staff]

I am happy to be a resource Rosemary - although we are a 
private hospital we have a 20% waterbirth rate (of total births). If the medicos 
would like to discuss anything, they could contact the docs at the unit who 
would be happy to share. Ditto the midwives and of course the 
women!!!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Rosemary 
  & Wayne Weckert 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2003 3:50 
  PM
  Subject: [ozmidwifery] Birth through 
  water
  
  Hello all you wise consumers and 
  midwives
  I am requesting information about birth through 
  water in the public health system. Policies, procedures, 
  protocols, learning packages or accreditation course for midwives. etc. 
  etc. My interest for 2003 is to make this choice available in our hospital, or 
  maybe it's a dream, or a perfomance development plan. Anyway any good texts or 
  course providers. We have the video The Art of Birth produced by Shea 
  Caplice and Teya Dusseldorp, very inspiring great to see Jan Robinson and 
  others at work. I have to put the case to the medical team as well as 
  hospital management, I know it will be a long process but we have to start 
  somewhere. I will be working on the consumers as well through the Childbirth 
  Education Association, who incidently have taken NMAP on board with an article 
  in the latest newsletter and the petition being advertised in the 
  office.
  A new midwife to our unit from England said our 
  baths would not be suitable because of back care for the midwife! My response 
  was that from what I've read the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the 
  midwife, so why should there be a  problem!!
  Anyway just the first of many quips I'm 
  sure.
  I'll be waiting patiently for a 
  response.
  regards Rosemary
  Desert Rose Midwife
  Alice 
Springs 

[ozmidwifery] Birth through water

[Rosemary & Wayne Weckert]

Hello all you wise consumers and 
midwives
I am requesting information about birth through 
water in the public health system. Policies, procedures, 
protocols, learning packages or accreditation course for midwives. etc. 
etc. My interest for 2003 is to make this choice available in our hospital, or 
maybe it's a dream, or a perfomance development plan. Anyway any good texts or 
course providers. We have the video The Art of Birth produced by Shea 
Caplice and Teya Dusseldorp, very inspiring great to see Jan Robinson and 
others at work. I have to put the case to the medical team as well as 
hospital management, I know it will be a long process but we have to start 
somewhere. I will be working on the consumers as well through the Childbirth 
Education Association, who incidently have taken NMAP on board with an article 
in the latest newsletter and the petition being advertised in the 
office.
A new midwife to our unit from England said our 
baths would not be suitable because of back care for the midwife! My response 
was that from what I've read the baby is birthed by the mum, hands off by the 
midwife, so why should there be a  problem!!
Anyway just the first of many quips I'm 
sure.
I'll be waiting patiently for a 
response.
regards Rosemary
Desert Rose Midwife
Alice Springs