RE: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
What I wonderful way to have a baby no intervention or medicalization of a natural process. The woman wants to be congratulated for that. A very rare way to have a baby nowdays unless you have the baby at home. As a student I was privy to this type of birth only once and although it was fast it was great. Regards sharon _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nikki Macfarlane Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2007 6:16 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre You know what, I have a different take on this. If the newspaper article has reported accurately what the parents said (and I highly doubt they have, but for the sake of argument lets give themt he benefit of the doubt!), there are some serious failings of expectations here and little empathy going on from the medical staff. The mother was rushed to hospital by ambulance and arrived in the later stages of labor - this in itself appeared to be distressing for her as it appeared she was taken by surprise by the speed with which labor was progressing. So, now having arrived in advanced labor, she is not checked as she expects to be and does not appear to have a midwife in the room with her. Now that may be because she does not appear to be in strong labour, or that there is no midwife available. But from the mother's perspective, it is not what she expects. She feels out of control, in intense pain, and not receiving the level of hospital support she is expecting. She could have called for help and support or asked her husband to go and find a midwife. But her expectations were not being met. And it is a pretty reasonable expectation to have a midwife at the very least to reassure a mother who feels she is in strong labor, and realistically to be checking or staying by her side if she appears to be imminently birthing. At the point at which the baby is born, both parents describe themselves as frantic. This was not the experience they were hoping for. Yes, she did it without pain medication or any intervention. Yes, this is what many women aspire to. Yes, this is better for baby and mother healthwise in most circumstances. However, the mother felt unsupported, and the father felt panicky. And the hospital's response? We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Really? What a leap! To make the assumption that the midwives feel the same degree of disappointment as the parents. Yes, babies do sometimes come quicker than anticipated. What would have been nice is for this mum and dad to have been heard and had their sense of distress and lack of support acknowledged. Whether the midwives felt justified in their actions or not, the parents still felt the way they did. The mum was in the hospital for at least an hour and appeared to have no midwifery support during that time. I get that there may have been none available. But to dismiss the whole affair with a patronising comment about how the midwives are just as upset as the parents is hardly effective communication and certainly not displaying good listening skills towards the parents. Now of course, the whole newspaper article may be complete tosh and the parents/midwives may not have said anything that was attributed to them in the quotes. Always a shame that such stories are not seen as an opportunity to talk about how incredible our bodies are or how tragic it is that the health system the world over is failing women because of shortages of experienced midwives, or a multitude of other approaches that would be more beneficial towards women and babies. Nikki Macfarlane Childbirth International -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:40 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:40 PM
RE: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
I completely understand what Nikki is saying and agree with her abut the mothers expectations and lack of midwifery care. I also agree with the comment about the patronizing tone used to the mother..the midwives are upset. It reminds me of the Cheif medical officer of a tertiary hospital telling a woman who was holding her stillborn baby, that she had upset all my staff (drs m/ws) by refusing a caesarean early enough to save the baby. Callousness at its best. Amanda, I believe that a clean toilet is one of the cleanest places in the house, and maybe even the hospital. I agree with your view that birthing on the toilet or on the toilet floor isn't a negative thing but- Chosing to birth on the toilet is a bit different from being left alone and terrified. Lots of home birthing women choose the toilet as the most comfortable and efficient. MM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
Well actually for my first and only labour and birth (so far) I took two panadol when I thought I could not stand it any longer!! (P.S I had no other drugs!) - Original Message - From: Kylie Carberry To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 1:11 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre I can obviously see why this mum's distressed, but I can help ask why she was surprised no one offered her Panadol. Having been in labour my fair share of times, never has it been offered and I think I would have laughed if it had been! Kylie From: Kelly Zantey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:33:54 +1100 Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said. It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible. Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work, Kay said. I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency. But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room. Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved, she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, looked like a murder scene. There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible, she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care, Ms Forrest said. We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey called for the Government to investigate: It is just lucky the baby was not seriously injured in this fiasco. A spokeswoman for Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said it was an operational matter for the hospital to deal with. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
Hi Sharon, It is very tempting to think of a fast labour as great, especially for someone like me who had two CS for FTP. I have learned, though, that many women who do have very rapid labours can find them VERY intense, and very frightening as they are s out of control. My imagination says it must be like being picked up by a tornado and then dumped unceremoniously. I can see her fear and agree that she probably had many expectations left unmet. I hope someone has the wisdom to sit down with the couple and debrief. Cheers Judy --- sharon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I wonderful way to have a baby no intervention or medicalization of a natural process. The woman wants to be congratulated for that. A very rare way to have a baby nowdays unless you have the baby at home. As a student I was privy to this type of birth only once and although it was fast it was great. Regards sharon _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nikki Macfarlane Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2007 6:16 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre You know what, I have a different take on this. If the newspaper article has reported accurately what the parents said (and I highly doubt they have, but for the sake of argument lets give themt he benefit of the doubt!), there are some serious failings of expectations here and little empathy going on from the medical staff. The mother was rushed to hospital by ambulance and arrived in the later stages of labor - this in itself appeared to be distressing for her as it appeared she was taken by surprise by the speed with which labor was progressing. So, now having arrived in advanced labor, she is not checked as she expects to be and does not appear to have a midwife in the room with her. Now that may be because she does not appear to be in strong labour, or that there is no midwife available. But from the mother's perspective, it is not what she expects. She feels out of control, in intense pain, and not receiving the level of hospital support she is expecting. She could have called for help and support or asked her husband to go and find a midwife. But her expectations were not being met. And it is a pretty reasonable expectation to have a midwife at the very least to reassure a mother who feels she is in strong labor, and realistically to be checking or staying by her side if she appears to be imminently birthing. At the point at which the baby is born, both parents describe themselves as frantic. This was not the experience they were hoping for. Yes, she did it without pain medication or any intervention. Yes, this is what many women aspire to. Yes, this is better for baby and mother healthwise in most circumstances. However, the mother felt unsupported, and the father felt panicky. And the hospital's response? We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Really? What a leap! To make the assumption that the midwives feel the same degree of disappointment as the parents. Yes, babies do sometimes come quicker than anticipated. What would have been nice is for this mum and dad to have been heard and had their sense of distress and lack of support acknowledged. Whether the midwives felt justified in their actions or not, the parents still felt the way they did. The mum was in the hospital for at least an hour and appeared to have no midwifery support during that time. I get that there may have been none available. But to dismiss the whole affair with a patronising comment about how the midwives are just as upset as the parents is hardly effective communication and certainly not displaying good listening skills towards the parents. Now of course, the whole newspaper article may be complete tosh and the parents/midwives may not have said anything that was attributed to them in the quotes. Always a shame that such stories are not seen as an opportunity to talk about how incredible our bodies are or how tragic it is that the health system the world over is failing women because of shortages of experienced midwives, or a multitude of other approaches that would be more beneficial towards women and babies. Nikki Macfarlane Childbirth International -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:40 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:40 PM Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
The thought of birthing without help is terrifying for most people. They must have been so frightened. I agree that it is not satisfactory to have almost no care from a midwife and that most of us would agree that a woman in heavy labour should have one on one care and not be left alone. Of course as recognised, the story may not reflect the whole picture. Di - Original Message - From: sharon To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 6:32 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre What I wonderful way to have a baby no intervention or medicalization of a natural process. The woman wants to be congratulated for that. A very rare way to have a baby nowdays unless you have the baby at home. As a student I was privy to this type of birth only once and although it was fast it was great. Regards sharon -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Nikki Macfarlane Sent: Wednesday, 24 January 2007 6:16 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre You know what, I have a different take on this. If the newspaper article has reported accurately what the parents said (and I highly doubt they have, but for the sake of argument lets give themt he benefit of the doubt!), there are some serious failings of expectations here and little empathy going on from the medical staff. The mother was rushed to hospital by ambulance and arrived in the later stages of labor - this in itself appeared to be distressing for her as it appeared she was taken by surprise by the speed with which labor was progressing. So, now having arrived in advanced labor, she is not checked as she expects to be and does not appear to have a midwife in the room with her. Now that may be because she does not appear to be in strong labour, or that there is no midwife available. But from the mother's perspective, it is not what she expects. She feels out of control, in intense pain, and not receiving the level of hospital support she is expecting. She could have called for help and support or asked her husband to go and find a midwife. But her expectations were not being met. And it is a pretty reasonable expectation to have a midwife at the very least to reassure a mother who feels she is in strong labor, and realistically to be checking or staying by her side if she appears to be imminently birthing. At the point at which the baby is born, both parents describe themselves as frantic. This was not the experience they were hoping for. Yes, she did it without pain medication or any intervention. Yes, this is what many women aspire to. Yes, this is better for baby and mother healthwise in most circumstances. However, the mother felt unsupported, and the father felt panicky. And the hospital's response? We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Really? What a leap! To make the assumption that the midwives feel the same degree of disappointment as the parents. Yes, babies do sometimes come quicker than anticipated. What would have been nice is for this mum and dad to have been heard and had their sense of distress and lack of support acknowledged. Whether the midwives felt justified in their actions or not, the parents still felt the way they did. The mum was in the hospital for at least an hour and appeared to have no midwifery support during that time. I get that there may have been none available. But to dismiss the whole affair with a patronising comment about how the midwives are just as upset as the parents is hardly effective communication and certainly not displaying good listening skills towards the parents. Now of course, the whole newspaper article may be complete tosh and the parents/midwives may not have said anything that was attributed to them in the quotes. Always a shame that such stories are not seen as an opportunity to talk about how incredible our bodies are or how tragic it is that the health system the world over is failing women because of shortages of experienced midwives, or a multitude of other approaches that would be more beneficial towards women and babies. Nikki Macfarlane Childbirth International __ NOD32 2001 (20070124) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:40 PM -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.8/649
RE: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
I can obviously see why this mum's distressed, but I can help ask why she was surprised no one offered her Panadol. Having been in labour my fair share of times, never has it been offered and I think I would have laughed if it had been! Kylie From: "Kelly Zantey" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical CentreDate: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 14:33:54 +1100 Mum gives birth in toiletJane MetlikovecJanuary 24, 2007 12:00amA MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help.Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted "the birth did not go according to plan". At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. "A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol," Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. "I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been," Kay said. "It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible." Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. "When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work," Kay said. "I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency." But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: "The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room." Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. "It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved," she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, "looked like a murder scene". "There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible," she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. "We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care," Ms Forrest said. "We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes." Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey called for the Government to investigate: "It is just lucky the baby was not seriously injured in this fiasco." A spokeswoman for Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said it was an operational matter for the hospital to deal with. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator,BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
Oh Puleeeze!!! Talk about over dramatising. Many many bubs enter the world in toilets as we all know - while I feel sympathy that this woman was unprepared for a very fast birth, I feel for the midwives who are being blamed for this very normal turn of events. Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said. It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible. Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work, Kay said. I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency. But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room. Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved, she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, looked like a murder scene. There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible, she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care, Ms Forrest said. We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey called for the Government to investigate: It is just lucky the baby was not seriously injured in this fiasco. A spokeswoman for Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said it was an operational matter for the hospital to deal with. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.7/647 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8:02 AM
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
Yep. A fast, intense birth can be traumatic; but it's also a healthy, normal event regardless. It all sounds a bit ridiculous and comical. Personally I'd be thankful for the privacy and lack of intervention that birthing in a toilet provides! The comment about not even being offered a panadol suggests the Mama wanted a managed (medicated) birth and perhaps she's distressed that she didn't get that; maybe in time it will become something she is thankful for, instead. A healthy undrugged baby born effectively from a healthy undrugged woman (even if into a toilet) is a wonderful thing! :) - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Oh Puleeeze!!! Talk about over dramatising. Many many bubs enter the world in toilets as we all know - while I feel sympathy that this woman was unprepared for a very fast birth, I feel for the midwives who are being blamed for this very normal turn of events. Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said. It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible. Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work, Kay said. I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency. But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room. Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved, she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, looked like a murder scene. There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible, she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care, Ms Forrest said. We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Opposition health spokeswoman Helen Shardey called for the Government to investigate: It is just lucky the baby was not seriously injured in this fiasco. A spokeswoman for Health Minister Bronwyn Pike said it was an operational matter for the hospital to deal with. Best Regards, Kelly Zantey Creator, BellyBelly.com.au Conception, Pregnancy, Birth and Baby BellyBelly Birth Support No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.7/647 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 8
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
It reminds me of the article a couple of years ago criticising the lower rate of epidurals in Tassie. Some of us think that's good ; ) I hope this woman gets some debriefing and FWIW I always tell hospy birthing mamas to birth in the loo although perhaps not directly into the toilet itself... I wonder why she couldn't just catch the baby? Whatever. More media crap about the dangers of birth. Of course if she'd been at home.. The ambulance is probably a good indication that this birth was being viewed as a medical emergency : ) J - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Yep. A fast, intense birth can be traumatic; but it's also a healthy, normal event regardless. It all sounds a bit ridiculous and comical. Personally I'd be thankful for the privacy and lack of intervention that birthing in a toilet provides! The comment about not even being offered a panadol suggests the Mama wanted a managed (medicated) birth and perhaps she's distressed that she didn't get that; maybe in time it will become something she is thankful for, instead. A healthy undrugged baby born effectively from a healthy undrugged woman (even if into a toilet) is a wonderful thing! :) - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Oh Puleeeze!!! Talk about over dramatising. Many many bubs enter the world in toilets as we all know - while I feel sympathy that this woman was unprepared for a very fast birth, I feel for the midwives who are being blamed for this very normal turn of events. Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said. It was the most traumatic thing we have had to go through. I would have thought it would have been one of the happiest times of our lives, but it was terrible. Kay said Michael pressed the emergency buzzer three times, but no one responded until after a nearby caterer alerted medical staff. When someone finally came, Michael asked why it took so long and they told him the buzzer didn't work, Kay said. I was completely shocked. It is an emergency buzzer. This was an emergency. But the director of nursing at Monash Medical Centre, Kym Forrest, said in a statement to the Herald Sun: The buzzers were checked and both were working. The obstetrician and midwives were in fact alerted to the baby's arrival by the buzzer being sounded from Kay's room. Ms Forrest also denied the door had been kicked in. It is a dual lock which can be opened from both sides and this was the way access was achieved, she said. But Kay said the toilet cubicle, complete with broken door, looked like a murder scene. There was blood everywhere. I was screaming. It was just horrible, she said. The couple are seeking a formal apology, but Ms Forrest said they had not lodged a formal complaint with the hospital. We regret that Kay did not have the birth experience our midwives strive to provide to all the mums in their care, Ms Forrest said. We
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
During my first year out as a fully fledged midwife I was giving handover when I heard my buzzer go another midwife answered it and then it went again so I went in and the multi who I had just put in there was in the process of catching her own baby whilst sitting on the toilet. Talk about the who har that came out from that, A PERFECTLY CAPABLE WOMAN CATCHING HER PERFECTLY HEALTHY BABY WHILST SITTING ON THE TOILET I honestly couldn't see the big deal but I was dragged over hot coals by the NUM because of it and consequently with all the negative comments left birth suite and went back to postnatal. I now work in a much bigger more progressive birthing unit where birthing on the toilet or on the toilet floor isn't a negative thing at all. I can distinctively remember a so called senior midwife 'telling' me I better write damn good notes. If anyone can tell me what the big deal is about birthing on the toilet I would love to hear. P.S The mother I am talking about wasn't at all distressed about the event even more of a reason that it wasn't a big deal. Amanda Ward Creative Memories Consultant Ph. (07) 3261 4354 Mob, 0417 009 648 Email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:37:36 +1100 It reminds me of the article a couple of years ago criticising the lower rate of epidurals in Tassie. Some of us think that's good ; ) I hope this woman gets some debriefing and FWIW I always tell hospy birthing mamas to birth in the loo although perhaps not directly into the toilet itself... I wonder why she couldn't just catch the baby? Whatever. More media crap about the dangers of birth. Of course if she'd been at home.. The ambulance is probably a good indication that this birth was being viewed as a medical emergency : ) J - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Yep. A fast, intense birth can be traumatic; but it's also a healthy, normal event regardless. It all sounds a bit ridiculous and comical. Personally I'd be thankful for the privacy and lack of intervention that birthing in a toilet provides! The comment about not even being offered a panadol suggests the Mama wanted a managed (medicated) birth and perhaps she's distressed that she didn't get that; maybe in time it will become something she is thankful for, instead. A healthy undrugged baby born effectively from a healthy undrugged woman (even if into a toilet) is a wonderful thing! :) - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Oh Puleeeze!!! Talk about over dramatising. Many many bubs enter the world in toilets as we all know - while I feel sympathy that this woman was unprepared for a very fast birth, I feel for the midwives who are being blamed for this very normal turn of events. Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she was terrified her daughter could have died, and described the ordeal as horrific. I thought she could have been seriously hurt, or worse. If it wasn't for Michael coming to my aid, I don't know what the result would have been, Kay said
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
The comment about not even being offered a panadol suggests the Mama wanted a managed (medicated) birth and perhaps she's distressed that she didn't get that; maybe in time it will become something she is thankful for, instead. I doubt it Felicity..the cynic in me says that theres a complaint coming because she didn't get an epidural :) It's a common theme...I didn't get to the birthing suite in time to have.a...b...or c.with disappointed look on face! Women will often look at you strangely when you suggest it's ok if they have their baby in the loo/shower etc.sorry just a cynical hosptial midwife Lisa
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
That news article is good old fear-mongering at its finest. The pity is not that this woman birthed on the toilet, but that she didn't get reported as saying I birthed on the loo! What a story for the grandkiddies! ;) ;) Amanda W wrote: During my first year out as a fully fledged midwife I was giving handover when I heard my buzzer go another midwife answered it and then it went again so I went in and the multi who I had just put in there was in the process of catching her own baby whilst sitting on the toilet. Talk about the who har that came out from that, A PERFECTLY CAPABLE WOMAN CATCHING HER PERFECTLY HEALTHY BABY WHILST SITTING ON THE TOILET I honestly couldn't see the big deal but I was dragged over hot coals by the NUM because of it and consequently with all the negative comments left birth suite and went back to postnatal. I now work in a much bigger more progressive birthing unit where birthing on the toilet or on the toilet floor isn't a negative thing at all. I can distinctively remember a so called senior midwife 'telling' me I better write damn good notes. If anyone can tell me what the big deal is about birthing on the toilet I would love to hear. P.S The mother I am talking about wasn't at all distressed about the event even more of a reason that it wasn't a big deal. Amanda Ward Creative Memories Consultant Ph. (07) 3261 4354 Mob, 0417 009 648 Email. [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Janet Fraser [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 17:37:36 +1100 It reminds me of the article a couple of years ago criticising the lower rate of epidurals in Tassie. Some of us think that's good ; ) I hope this woman gets some debriefing and FWIW I always tell hospy birthing mamas to birth in the loo although perhaps not directly into the toilet itself... I wonder why she couldn't just catch the baby? Whatever. More media crap about the dangers of birth. Of course if she'd been at home.. The ambulance is probably a good indication that this birth was being viewed as a medical emergency : ) J - Original Message - From: Stephen Felicity To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:33 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Yep. A fast, intense birth can be traumatic; but it's also a healthy, normal event regardless. It all sounds a bit ridiculous and comical. Personally I'd be thankful for the privacy and lack of intervention that birthing in a toilet provides! The comment about not even being offered a panadol suggests the Mama wanted a managed (medicated) birth and perhaps she's distressed that she didn't get that; maybe in time it will become something she is thankful for, instead. A healthy undrugged baby born effectively from a healthy undrugged woman (even if into a toilet) is a wonderful thing! :) - Original Message - From: Susan Cudlipp To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 5:02 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Oh Puleeeze!!! Talk about over dramatising. Many many bubs enter the world in toilets as we all know - while I feel sympathy that this woman was unprepared for a very fast birth, I feel for the midwives who are being blamed for this very normal turn of events. Sue - Original Message - From: Kelly Zantey To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:33 AM Subject: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre Mum gives birth in toilet Jane Metlikovec January 24, 2007 12:00am A MOTHER says her baby daughter was born in a hospital toilet bowl and had to be rescued after staff ignored her screams for help. Kay, 24, was in the final stages of labour when she was rushed by ambulance to Monash Medical Centre on Tuesday last week. In a statement to the Herald Sun yesterday, the hospital said it regretted the birth did not go according to plan. At the hospital, the Mt Waverley mother of two was told to wait in a standard share room instead of being directed to a birthing suite, despite having contractions fewer than two minutes apart. A midwife saw me when I came in and pressed on my stomach once. Nobody checked if I was dilated. I didn't even get offered a Panadol, Kay said. An hour after arriving, distressed and screaming in agony, she went to the toilet, where she gave birth to a girl. Her husband Michael, who had become frantic, had hit an emergency buzzer in panic to try to get help, but he said none came in time so he kicked down the locked door and ran in, pulling the infant from the toilet bowl. Kay said she
Re: [ozmidwifery] Mum Gives Birth In Toilet - Monash Medical Centre
You know what, I have a different take on this. If the newspaper article has reported accurately what the parents said (and I highly doubt they have, but for the sake of argument lets give themt he benefit of the doubt!), there are some serious failings of expectations here and little empathy going on from the medical staff. The mother was rushed to hospital by ambulance and arrived in the later stages of labor - this in itself appeared to be distressing for her as it appeared she was taken by surprise by the speed with which labor was progressing. So, now having arrived in advanced labor, she is not checked as she expects to be and does not appear to have a midwife in the room with her. Now that may be because she does not appear to be in strong labour, or that there is no midwife available. But from the mother's perspective, it is not what she expects. She feels out of control, in intense pain, and not receiving the level of hospital support she is expecting. She could have called for help and support or asked her husband to go and find a midwife. But her expectations were not being met. And it is a pretty reasonable expectation to have a midwife at the very least to reassure a mother who feels she is in strong labor, and realistically to be checking or staying by her side if she appears to be imminently birthing. At the point at which the baby is born, both parents describe themselves as frantic. This was not the experience they were hoping for. Yes, she did it without pain medication or any intervention. Yes, this is what many women aspire to. Yes, this is better for baby and mother healthwise in most circumstances. However, the mother felt unsupported, and the father felt panicky. And the hospital's response? We are as disappointed as Kay and Michael that the birth of their second child did not go according to plan, but babies have a mind of their own sometimes. Really? What a leap! To make the assumption that the midwives feel the same degree of disappointment as the parents. Yes, babies do sometimes come quicker than anticipated. What would have been nice is for this mum and dad to have been heard and had their sense of distress and lack of support acknowledged. Whether the midwives felt justified in their actions or not, the parents still felt the way they did. The mum was in the hospital for at least an hour and appeared to have no midwifery support during that time. I get that there may have been none available. But to dismiss the whole affair with a patronising comment about how the midwives are just as upset as the parents is hardly effective communication and certainly not displaying good listening skills towards the parents. Now of course, the whole newspaper article may be complete tosh and the parents/midwives may not have said anything that was attributed to them in the quotes. Always a shame that such stories are not seen as an opportunity to talk about how incredible our bodies are or how tragic it is that the health system the world over is failing women because of shortages of experienced midwives, or a multitude of other approaches that would be more beneficial towards women and babies. Nikki Macfarlane Childbirth International
