Re: Midwifery Resolution for Women's Groups

[Allison & Ken]

Dear Roz, the resolution was posted by Andrea Robertson on the 
2/8/01. Allison

  -Original Message-From: 
  Roslyn Donnellan - Fernandez <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Date: 
  Saturday, 12 January 2002 11:26Subject: Midwifery Resolution 
  for Women's Groups
  Dear All
   
  The best of the New Year to you !
   
  Could someone please refresh my memory with the 
  reference / exact wording  
  proposed last year as a resolution to be put to 
  women's groups acknowledging
  the role of the midwife in Australian society. I 
  have trawled the ozmid archives
  & not been able to unearth it. I seem to 
  remember that Andrea (Robertson) posted
  a succinct version. In the midst of preparing 
  various submissions & it would be very handy, anybody 
   
  Regards
  Roz

Re: midwifery resolution

[L & D Staff]

Title: Re: midwifery resolution



I think that may be a way forward too, but until we 
are able to get insurance, it won't happen. I can't see corporations 
insuring us!
Regards, Lynne  

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vernon at 
  Stringybark 
  To: ozmid 
  Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 4:34 
  PM
  Subject: Re: midwifery resolution
  Jo wrote:  
  Perhaps another avenue would 
be to also try and get the option of midwifery led care increased in the 
private sector?  Many women take out private insurance solely for the 
births of their children.  The options of care is singular -ob in the 
private sector.   Perhaps we could sell the benefits of mw led 
care lower interventions thus lower costs to them the insurance companies. 
 It has always baffled me that if I had car insurance but lived in a 
high risk area then my insurance would cost more; why is it that the health 
insurance companies do not investigate the massive difference between 
intervention rates (thus increased costs -longer stays etc) between public 
and private births?Jo 
Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8365 7059birth with trust, faith 
& love...Jo,Jan Robinson 
  and another colleague from the Australian Society of Independent Midwives has 
  made representations to MBF on just these kinds of grounds.  And MBF is 
  apparently interested because they recognize it would save them money to have 
  more women use independent midwives.  The only sticking point is the lack 
  of PI insurance.  You can contact Jan for more info if interested. 
   regards BarbDr Barbara VernonPresidentMaternity 
  Coalition 

Re: midwifery resolution

[Denise Hynd]

Title: Re: midwifery resolution



Dear Barb
Here in WA at least 2 health funds give hih level 
of rebates for homebirth but one of the problems is it is rarely  
advertised that these companies rebate midwifery care!
Another is now there is a government funded 
scheme which gives women free midwifery care the women who would have 
considered or used their private insurance to pay for a midwife are either on or 
want to be on the scheme rather meet the gap regardless of their maternity and 
care benefits!
Denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Vernon at 
  Stringybark 
  To: ozmid 
  Sent: Friday, January 18, 2002 2:34 
  PM
  Subject: Re: midwifery resolution
  Jo wrote:  
  Perhaps another avenue would 
be to also try and get the option of midwifery led care increased in the 
private sector?  Many women take out private insurance solely for the 
births of their children.  The options of care is singular -ob in the 
private sector.   Perhaps we could sell the benefits of mw led 
care lower interventions thus lower costs to them the insurance companies. 
 It has always baffled me that if I had car insurance but lived in a 
high risk area then my insurance would cost more; why is it that the health 
insurance companies do not investigate the massive difference between 
intervention rates (thus increased costs -longer stays etc) between public 
and private births?Jo 
Bainbridgefounding member CARES SAemail: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 8365 7059birth with trust, faith 
& love...Jo,Jan Robinson 
  and another colleague from the Australian Society of Independent Midwives has 
  made representations to MBF on just these kinds of grounds.  And MBF is 
  apparently interested because they recognize it would save them money to have 
  more women use independent midwives.  The only sticking point is the lack 
  of PI insurance.  You can contact Jan for more info if interested. 
   regards BarbDr Barbara VernonPresidentMaternity 
  Coalition 

Re: midwifery resolution

[Rhonda]

On this note exactly I was talking to a friend of 
mine who had a reasonably good birth experience on the scale of things however.. 
she said this..
"If only I had known more of my rights and been 
able to stick up for myself.  At every anti natal check up they did a 
vaginal examination which made me hate doctors so much...I dreaded 
going.
After the birth for the first three mornings a 
doctor and a team of student ob's would come in and at least 6 or more would ask 
me to roll over so they could look at my bottom.  On the fourth day I 
realized that they were looking for sutures.  I finally said to the doctor 
when he asked - I don't have any stitches.  He went red and never came and 
asked again."
 
She felt that this was abuse in itself and for them 
to not read her chart and after three examinations not even notice that she had 
No stitches - shows how educated they were doesn't it.
 
If  someone had said to her that she had 
rights and options etc. then perhaps things would have been different.  She 
only has one child and has many regrets about his birth which makes it even 
harder for her because as things turned out her 
baby had a severe form of epilepsy from about 4 months into the pregnancy 
(she thought it was hiccups) he has brain damage from this.  There is a 
name for the condition and the babies actually have seizures in the womb as well 
as after birth.  Often misdiagnosed and quite rare he was 4yrs old and had 
a seizure which lasted about 2 days or more (Nothing worked to stop 
it!) Now he is on medication to stop the seizures - it has helped but 
the damage was done.
 
I think that having a baby with problems is hard 
enough but to feel so violated by his birth makes it harder.
 
I often wonder WHY isn't the information made 
available to first time Mum's.  It seems that women who have had bad 
experiences then look for alternatives but they have to have that experience 
first???  Absurd really!
 
Regards
Rhonda
 
 
 

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Macha McDonald 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 2:46 
  AM
  Subject: RE: midwifery resolution
  
  
  This 
  is so true.  I was involved with 
  feminist groups at uni…who even fought for a private room in which to 
  breastfeed and express etc…and won….but little is talked about the dangers of 
  medical birth.  Even before I got 
  pregnant, I was very progressive and all for women’s rights.  But, due to lack of information, my 
  pregnancy and birth experience was like rape.  I feel like I didn’t even give birth 
  or go into labour (induced, ARM, epidural, ventouse & episiotomy – cascade 
  of intervention).  I think the 
  natural birth movement defiantly needs to target young ladies, and even teens 
  in some way to get the message across that midwives attend births, 
  obstetricians should only come in when things go desperately wrong.  
   
  -Original 
  Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lois WattisSent: Friday, 18 January 2002 4:07 
  PMTo: Dean & Jo 
  BainbridgeCc: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: midwifery 
  resolution
   
  What a great 
  opener at a lecture to gain attention  Can I use this line at 
  active birth or antenatal opportunities please?  Well said, Jo.  
  Regards, Lois
  
  - Original 
  Message - 
  
  From: Dean & 
  Jo Bainbridge 
  
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, January 
  16, 2002 1:42 PM
  Subject: midwifery 
  resolution
   
  I agree that the 
  lack of understanding of even who the midwife is is wide spread.  I agree 
  that the more women know about the benefits of midwifetry based care the more 
  can start demanding them.  
  I am also aware of 
  the lack of support and understanding from the community for those women who 
  after becoming educated are left emotionally damaged (so to 
  speak).
  Perhaps another 
  avenue would be to also try and get the option of midwifery led care increased 
  in the private sector?  Many women take out private insurance solely for 
  the births of their children.  The options of care is singular -ob in the 
  private sector.   Perhaps we could sell the benefits of mw led care 
  lower interevntions thus lower costs to them the insurance companies.  It 
  has always baffled me that if I had car insurance but lived in a high risk 
  area then my insurance would cost more; why is it that the health insurance 
  companies do not investigate the massive difference between intervention 
  rates (thus increased costs -longer stays etc) between public and 
  private births?
  I am unsure how this 
  would work with the midwifery insurance problem though.  I am also 
  unaware of the politics involved with private hospitals.
   
  I am not citicising 
  informing women of the greener grass at all; I am contiually trying to think 
  of 'under the radar' ways to sell the benefits 

RE: midwifery resolution

[Macha McDonald]

This is so
true.  I was involved with feminist
groups at uni…who even fought for a private room in which to breastfeed and
express etc…and won….but little is talked about the dangers of medical birth.  Even before I got pregnant, I was very
progressive and all for women’s rights. 
But, due to lack of information, my pregnancy and birth experience was
like rape.  I feel like I didn’t even
give birth or go into labour (induced, ARM, epidural, ventouse & episiotomy
– cascade of intervention).  I
think the natural birth movement defiantly needs to target young ladies, and
even teens in some way to get the message across that midwives attend births, obstetricians
should only come in when things go desperately wrong.  

 

-Original
Message-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Lois Wattis
Sent: Friday, 18 January 2002 4:07
PM
To: Dean & Jo Bainbridge
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: midwifery resolution

 

What
a great opener at a lecture to gain attention  Can I use this line at
active birth or antenatal opportunities please?  Well said, Jo. 
Regards, Lois



-
Original Message - 



From: Dean
& Jo Bainbridge 



To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

Sent: Wednesday, January 16,
2002 1:42 PM

Subject:
midwifery resolution

 

I agree
that the lack of understanding of even who the midwife is is wide spread. 
I agree that the more women know about the benefits of midwifetry based care
the more can start demanding them.  

I am
also aware of the lack of support and understanding from the community for
those women who after becoming educated are left emotionally damaged (so to
speak).

Perhaps
another avenue would be to also try and get the option of midwifery led care
increased in the private sector?  Many women take out private insurance
solely for the births of their children.  The options of care is singular
-ob in the private sector.   Perhaps we could sell the benefits of mw
led care lower interevntions thus lower costs to them the insurance
companies.  It has always baffled me that if I had car insurance but lived
in a high risk area then my insurance would cost more; why is it that the
health insurance companies do not investigate the massive difference between
intervention rates (thus increased costs -longer stays etc) between
public and private births?

I am
unsure how this would work with the midwifery insurance problem though.  I
am also unaware of the politics involved with private hospitals.

 

I am
not citicising informing women of the greener grass at all; I am contiually
trying to think of 'under the radar' ways to sell the benefits of less medical
births.

 

 
Maybe we should get involved with feminist groups at universities and enlighten
them and get the reality of what happens in the birthing room out there. 
I am continually amazed at how young intellegent women whom I have met through
gender studies courses and so forth, have very little understanding about child
birth.  they think it is yucky because it ruins your sex life and changes
you "down there" (some of the things that have been discussed in some
of my classes).  They dont seem to realise that the episiotomy is commonly
preformed for male convienece!  Surely that is something for these women
to get up in arms about.  The feminists have always been willing to jump
up and down about the rights over their own bodies, but after they leave uni
and get jobs they are in the highest group for private insurance, older births
and higher interventions.  the rights over their bodies only seem to stem
to their demands for the cs...why is that?

I did a
talk at uni last year that followed a talk on rape.  I began mine with
"..oh did anyone catch the story of the woman yesterday who was drugged,
starved, strapped down, had her vagina repeatedly invaded, she was mutilated,
objects inserted into her AND to make things worse she was 9 months
pregnant!!!"  everyone was up in arms and really upset by this. 
Then I told them that it happens in labour rooms everyday and nobody considers
this abuse??  Infact we often passivley allow it to happen.

It got
them thinking.

Any
thoughts??

Jo
Bainbridge
founding member CARES SA
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 08 8365 7059
birth with trust, faith & love...

Re: midwifery resolution

[Lois Wattis]

What a great opener at a lecture to gain 
attention  Can I use this line at active birth or antenatal 
opportunities please?  Well said, Jo.  Regards, Lois

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  & Jo Bainbridge 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:42 
  PM
  Subject: midwifery resolution
  
  I agree that the lack of understanding of even 
  who the midwife is is wide spread.  I agree that the more women know 
  about the benefits of midwifetry based care the more can start demanding 
  them.  
  I am also aware of the lack of support and 
  understanding from the community for those women who after becoming educated 
  are left emotionally damaged (so to speak).
  Perhaps another avenue would be to also try and 
  get the option of midwifery led care increased in the private sector?  
  Many women take out private insurance solely for the births of their 
  children.  The options of care is singular -ob in the private 
  sector.   Perhaps we could sell the benefits of mw led care lower 
  interevntions thus lower costs to them the insurance companies.  It has 
  always baffled me that if I had car insurance but lived in a high risk area 
  then my insurance would cost more; why is it that the health insurance 
  companies do not investigate the massive difference between intervention 
  rates (thus increased costs -longer stays etc) between public and 
  private births?
  I am unsure how this would work with the 
  midwifery insurance problem though.  I am also unaware of the politics 
  involved with private hospitals.
   
  I am not citicising informing women of the 
  greener grass at all; I am contiually trying to think of 'under the radar' 
  ways to sell the benefits of less medical births.
   
    Maybe we should get involved with feminist 
  groups at universities and enlighten them and get the reality of what happens 
  in the birthing room out there.  I am continually amazed at how young 
  intellegent women whom I have met through gender studies courses and so forth, 
  have very little understanding about child birth.  they think it is yucky 
  because it ruins your sex life and changes you "down there" (some of the 
  things that have been discussed in some of my classes).  They dont seem 
  to realise that the episiotomy is commonly preformed for male 
  convienece!  Surely that is something for these women to get up in arms 
  about.  The feminists have always been willing to jump up and down about 
  the rights over their own bodies, but after they leave uni and get jobs they 
  are in the highest group for private insurance, older births and higher 
  interventions.  the rights over their bodies only seem to stem to their 
  demands for the cs...why is that?
  I did a talk at uni last year that followed a 
  talk on rape.  I began mine with "..oh did anyone catch the story of the 
  woman yesterday who was drugged, starved, strapped down, had her vagina 
  repeatedly invaded, she was mutilated, objects inserted into her AND to make 
  things worse she was 9 months pregnant!!!"  everyone was up in arms and 
  really upset by this.  Then I told them that it happens in labour rooms 
  everyday and nobody considers this abuse??  Infact we often passivley 
  allow it to happen.
  It got them thinking.
  Any thoughts??
  Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES 
  SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 
  8365 7059birth with trust, faith & 
love...

Re: midwifery resolution

[Vernon at Stringybark]

Title: Re: midwifery resolution



Jo wrote:  

Perhaps another avenue would be to also try and get the option of midwifery led care increased in the private sector?  Many women take out private insurance solely for the births of their children.  The options of care is singular -ob in the private sector.   Perhaps we could sell the benefits of mw led care lower interventions thus lower costs to them the insurance companies.  It has always baffled me that if I had car insurance but lived in a high risk area then my insurance would cost more; why is it that the health insurance companies do not investigate the massive difference between intervention rates (thus increased costs -longer stays etc) between public and private births?

Jo Bainbridge
founding member CARES SA
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 08 8365 7059
birth with trust, faith & love...


Jo,

Jan Robinson and another colleague from the Australian Society of Independent Midwives has made representations to MBF on just these kinds of grounds.  And MBF is apparently interested because they recognize it would save them money to have more women use independent midwives.  The only sticking point is the lack of PI insurance.  You can contact Jan for more info if interested.  

regards Barb

Dr Barbara Vernon
President
Maternity Coalition

Re: Midwifery Resolution

[Andrea Robertson]

Hello Bronni,

>  Any way our meetings have continued, being small but fertile.  We have 
> named ourselves now - Birth In Community - supporting and reclaiming 
> freedom in birth, keeping abreast of the issues, and this year we are 
> going to really push at getting some numbers happening with guest 
> speakers etc.  We figure it's hard but if we can provide a support for 
> each other and anyone who needs it around this issue we'll keep talking 
> about the hard stuff.

Wonderful to hear that your group is continuing to meet and explore what 
can be done to improve birth in your community. If I can help out by 
talking to your members I would be very happy to do so. I have spoken to 
parent groups around Australia for years now, and would willingly give my 
time to do an evening talk when I am in Melbourne, just as I will for any 
group who thinks I may be able to help them with this huge challenge.  Just 
email me if you are interested and we can talk about dates etc.

Warm regards,

Andrea

-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


--
This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.
Visit  to subscribe or unsubscribe.

Re: Midwifery Resolution

[Steve & Bronni McGrath]

i called a public meeting back in Sept/Oct in 
Healesville re PI Insurance and supporting midwives and one of the issues raised 
by the group of mostly consumer women with their children was the great 
difficulty we all felt in raising the issue of the great Oz birthing culture not 
being quite right and then having to deal with the fall out.  Most of us 
felt quite inadequate and a lot of us felt down right scared as we had some very 
angry responses.  So i hear your words Jo.  
Linda a wonderful friend who has had some great 
community midwifery experience in Melbourne with non english speaking women 
from around the world, put it in perspective for us a bit when she reminded 
us that is our birthing culture and  that in many corners of the world what 
happens to women and babies here is disgusting and unacceptable.  Thats 
really interesting when you consider the culture some of these women come 
from. 
 Any way our meetings have continued, being 
small but fertile.  We have named ourselves now - Birth In Community - 
supporting and reclaiming freedom in birth, keeping abreast of the issues, and 
this year we are going to really push at getting some numbers happening with 
guest speakers etc.  We figure it's hard but if we can provide a support 
for each other and anyone who needs it around this issue we'll keep talking 
about the hard stuff.

Re: midwifery resolution

[Denise Hynd]

REGARDING Private health insurance companies and 
why they do not insist members use cost effective midwifery care
I understood some such as MBF were started and 
managed by doctors??
 
Does any one know if this is true.
Also I understand Private hospitals (from Hospital 
management) earn more theatre fees etc as things stand!!??
Comments/reatlity check would be 
appreciated??Denise

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  & Jo Bainbridge 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 1:42 
  PM
  Subject: midwifery resolution
  
  I agree that the lack of understanding of even 
  who the midwife is is wide spread.  I agree that the more women know 
  about the benefits of midwifetry based care the more can start demanding 
  them.  
  I am also aware of the lack of support and 
  understanding from the community for those women who after becoming educated 
  are left emotionally damaged (so to speak).
  Perhaps another avenue would be to also try and 
  get the option of midwifery led care increased in the private sector?  
  Many women take out private insurance solely for the births of their 
  children.  The options of care is singular -ob in the private 
  sector.   Perhaps we could sell the benefits of mw led care lower 
  interevntions thus lower costs to them the insurance companies.  It has 
  always baffled me that if I had car insurance but lived in a high risk area 
  then my insurance would cost more; why is it that the health insurance 
  companies do not investigate the massive difference between intervention 
  rates (thus increased costs -longer stays etc) between public and 
  private births?
  I am unsure how this would work with the 
  midwifery insurance problem though.  I am also unaware of the politics 
  involved with private hospitals.
   
  I am not citicising informing women of the 
  greener grass at all; I am contiually trying to think of 'under the radar' 
  ways to sell the benefits of less medical births.
   
    Maybe we should get involved with feminist 
  groups at universities and enlighten them and get the reality of what happens 
  in the birthing room out there.  I am continually amazed at how young 
  intellegent women whom I have met through gender studies courses and so forth, 
  have very little understanding about child birth.  they think it is yucky 
  because it ruins your sex life and changes you "down there" (some of the 
  things that have been discussed in some of my classes).  They dont seem 
  to realise that the episiotomy is commonly preformed for male 
  convienece!  Surely that is something for these women to get up in arms 
  about.  The feminists have always been willing to jump up and down about 
  the rights over their own bodies, but after they leave uni and get jobs they 
  are in the highest group for private insurance, older births and higher 
  interventions.  the rights over their bodies only seem to stem to their 
  demands for the cs...why is that?
  I did a talk at uni last year that followed a 
  talk on rape.  I began mine with "..oh did anyone catch the story of the 
  woman yesterday who was drugged, starved, strapped down, had her vagina 
  repeatedly invaded, she was mutilated, objects inserted into her AND to make 
  things worse she was 9 months pregnant!!!"  everyone was up in arms and 
  really upset by this.  Then I told them that it happens in labour rooms 
  everyday and nobody considers this abuse??  Infact we often passivley 
  allow it to happen.
  It got them thinking.
  Any thoughts??
  Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES 
  SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 
  8365 7059birth with trust, faith & 
love...

Re: midwifery resolution

[TinaPettigrew]

In a message dated 16/01/02 4:36:49 PM AUS Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


I began mine with "..oh did anyone catch the story of the woman yesterday who was drugged, starved, strapped down, had her vagina repeatedly invaded, she was mutilated, objects inserted into her AND to make things worse she was 9 months pregnant!!!"  everyone was up in arms and really upset by this.  Then I told them that it happens in labour rooms everyday and nobody considers this abuse??  Infact we often passivley allow it to happen.

Well said Jo !!!

I've used similar examples in my work with women and it is very powerful. It makes them sit up and really take notice of what it is your trying to convey to them Re: lack of consent, violation, and rape !! Time and time again I've used this abstract 'story telling' as a teaching tool - then projected the same 'story' into the context of birthing and POW !  

Yours in birth,

Tina Pettigrew
Birthworks
Independent CBE and aspiring B.Mid Midwife.
Convenor, Aust B. Mid Student Collective.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BMidStudentCollective
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

" As we trust the flowers to open to new life
   - So we can trust birth"
Harriette Hartigan.
--- 

Re: Midwifery Resolution

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Jo
I am saying I see that there is a general need to 
educate women's groups and ohther community groups about the 
comparative risks and benefits of our current maternity service and a woman 
centred system where women have equal access to midwifery care TO GAIN THEIR AND 
general support in demanding such a service!I think that no matter 
what happens there are many women who will never acknowledge their part and the 
risks that they and their infants ran in taking the intervention partciularly 
the social caesarian path.
Therefore there will also be women who have trouble coming to terms with 
their birth and some who will continue to advocate Elective ceasars as safe 
regardless.
 
 
But having read about the history of midwifery in 
NZ and spoken with Kiwi women I see the loss of knowledge of natural child birth 
and homebirth as a mainstream option is greater here in Australia than was in NZ 
prior to their gaining the legislative changes that gave NZ universal access to 
midwives.
 
Therefore to gain the necessary ground 
swell for Australain women to gain universal equal access there is a 
need for increased exposure to the benefits and safety of midwifery care to 
counter the general acceptance of medical intervention in childbirth as normal 
and safe!!Denise 
 
 
- Original Message - 

  From: 
  Dean 
  & Jo Bainbridge 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:35 
  AM
  Subject: Midwifery Resolution 
  
  "we need also to get out and talk to the mothers of whatcould have 
  and should be!!"
  I have found through talkng to women whom have had cs and told that "if 
  they didnt their baby would have died" (when  in fact it is highly likely 
  that that may not have been the case...)  they whole heartedly believe 
  because they cant not bring them selves to believe that those who are meant to 
  help us may actually have  their own interests at heart other than the 
  woman's.  If women are told that they may have been subject of F.O.L. 
  (fear of litigation) rather than F.T.P.  or worse, that the fetal 
  distress that required the cs was actually cause because of being  made 
  to lie on their back to be monitored (due to hospital plicy) etc.  Then 
  you HAVE to ensure that there is a support for these women after they become 
  'enlightened'.  
  The danger is removing the ignorance wich is bliss and then leaving women 
  to get through it themselves.  You can not go back in time and do things 
  differently and this is something that can cause a great deal of emotional 
  trauma.  
  I understand how frustrating it is when we hear those women say " but I 
  cant have the baby if the doctors not there!"  (check out one of the 
  'quality' current affairs programs about a woman who gave birth in a car park 
  because there was no doctor avaliable...were there no midwives???  This 
  is/was going to air this week.  It is only going to perpetuate the myth 
  that it cant be done without the doctor.)  
  I have no answers.  I am as frustrated as you.  When I 
  tell my birth story (my third bub) people say "oh, you were apart of the 
  minority: -6 hour labour, intact peri, breathed baby out, no drugs etc... In 
  fact an Australian study had only 9 women out of 242 gave birth with NO 
  MEDICAL PROCEDURES used during labour/birth.  
  3.7%   Compared with the general stat of about 
  25% being cs, then those who do give birth natuarlly are 
  the minority.
  The problem is that we all know that this shouldnt necessarrily be the 
  case, and that if women stopped placing their trust and the entire 
  responsiblity on the profession who are going to do what they have been 
  trainned to do...interevene, then it is not going to change.  
  We all know that this government will not see midwifery on an equally 
  respect level as ob; so all we can do is keep pushing. 
  Women are being used and manipulated by society, peers, fears, 
  television, lawyers, I could go on  they are losing their ability to 
  birth naturally both physically (by this I mean the change in lifestyles has 
  resulted in more OP presenting bubs for example) and also EMOTIONALLY.  
  
  I think all I am saying is that if we are going to educate women to how 
  their births should/could be then we have to be responsible to those who have 
  been left feeling betrayed.  Betrayal can cause a great deal of 
  psychological problems.  Women as mothers are isolated enough in this 
  society.
  Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES 
  SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 
  8365 7059birth with trust, faith & 
love...

Re: Midwifery Resolution

[Mary Murphy]

What a thought provoking email!  I agree with your sentiments and feel 
that above all we must be compasionate.  Ultimately the woman has to grow 
to a point where she can forgive herself for allowing herself to be betrayed, 
otherwise she has to keep doing what she did before, returning to the same OB 
for more of the same treatment.  It's a bit like women who bottle feed the 
first baby and then feel guilty for the lack of help she got and the 
misinformation given her.  I don't know the answer, but supporting women so 
they can  recover is very much part of the whole problem/answer.  
Regards, Mary Murphy

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dean 
  & Jo Bainbridge 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 10:35 
  AM
  Subject: Midwifery Resolution 
  
  "we need also to get out and talk to the mothers of whatcould have 
  and should be!!"
  I have found through talkng to women whom have had cs and told that "if 
  they didnt their baby would have died" (when  in fact it is highly likely 
  that that may not have been the case...)  they whole heartedly believe 
  because they cant not bring them selves to believe that those who are meant to 
  help us may actually have  their own interests at heart other than the 
  woman's.  If women are told that they may have been subject of F.O.L. 
  (fear of litigation) rather than F.T.P.  or worse, that the fetal 
  distress that required the cs was actually cause because of being  made 
  to lie on their back to be monitored (due to hospital plicy) etc.  Then 
  you HAVE to ensure that there is a support for these women after they become 
  'enlightened'.  
  The danger is removing the ignorance wich is bliss and then leaving women 
  to get through it themselves.  You can not go back in time and do things 
  differently and this is something that can cause a great deal of emotional 
  trauma.  
  I understand how frustrating it is when we hear those women say " but I 
  cant have the baby if the doctors not there!"  (check out one of the 
  'quality' current affairs programs about a woman who gave birth in a car park 
  because there was no doctor avaliable...were there no midwives???  This 
  is/was going to air this week.  It is only going to perpetuate the myth 
  that it cant be done without the doctor.)  
  I have no answers.  I am as frustrated as you.  When I 
  tell my birth story (my third bub) people say "oh, you were apart of the 
  minority: -6 hour labour, intact peri, breathed baby out, no drugs etc... In 
  fact an Australian study had only 9 women out of 242 gave birth with NO 
  MEDICAL PROCEDURES used during labour/birth.  
  3.7%   Compared with the general stat of about 
  25% being cs, then those who do give birth natuarlly are 
  the minority.
  The problem is that we all know that this shouldnt necessarrily be the 
  case, and that if women stopped placing their trust and the entire 
  responsiblity on the profession who are going to do what they have been 
  trainned to do...interevene, then it is not going to change.  
  We all know that this government will not see midwifery on an equally 
  respect level as ob; so all we can do is keep pushing. 
  Women are being used and manipulated by society, peers, fears, 
  television, lawyers, I could go on  they are losing their ability to 
  birth naturally both physically (by this I mean the change in lifestyles has 
  resulted in more OP presenting bubs for example) and also EMOTIONALLY.  
  
  I think all I am saying is that if we are going to educate women to how 
  their births should/could be then we have to be responsible to those who have 
  been left feeling betrayed.  Betrayal can cause a great deal of 
  psychological problems.  Women as mothers are isolated enough in this 
  society.
  Jo Bainbridgefounding member CARES 
  SAemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]phone: 08 
  8365 7059birth with trust, faith & 
love...

Re: Midwifery Resolution for Women's Groups

[Denise Hynd]

Dear Andrea
I tried it on my local Zonta
Club and got blank stares.
Once again they (women's groups)  like all consumers need education about
what they are missing - they  mostly/all believe the myths about having been
saved and served well by the system!
There is need for a mass publicity and education program and part of my
propsoal for a national group(Mat Coalition)  was to get funding to develop
some tools for such!!
As we have said we need to get in the schools to educate future birthers and
breast feeders but we need also to get out and talk to the mothers of what
could have and should be!!

Denise
- Original Message -
From: "Andrea Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Roslyn Donnellan - Fernandez" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 5:59 AM
Subject: Re: Midwifery Resolution for Women's Groups


> Hi Roz,
>
>
> Here it is again:
>
> This is the wording that is suggested by Karen Guilliland for a resolution
> to propose at AGMs of any women's groups, as a way of gathering more
> generalised support. It is similar to the resolution used with great
effect
> in New Zealand:
> --
> that (the group) urges (government/state) to recognise midwives as
> autonomous practitioners who work for the public good and as such should
> have access to the same medical rebates and government/state funded
> professional indemnity schemes as medical providers of the same maternity
> service.
> -
>
> Andrea R
>
>
>
>
> >
> >Could someone please refresh my memory with the reference / exact wording
> >proposed last year as a resolution to be put to women's groups
acknowledging
> >the role of the midwife in Australian society. I have trawled the ozmid
> >archives
> >& not been able to unearth it. I seem to remember that Andrea (Robertson)
> >posted
> >a succinct version. In the midst of preparing various submissions & it
> >would be very handy, anybody 
> >
> >Regards
> >Roz
>
>
> -
> Andrea Robertson
> Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education
>
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: www.birthinternational.com
>
>
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> Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.

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Re: Midwifery Resolution for Women's Groups

[Andrea Robertson]

Hi Roz,


Here it is again:

This is the wording that is suggested by Karen Guilliland for a resolution 
to propose at AGMs of any women's groups, as a way of gathering more 
generalised support. It is similar to the resolution used with great effect 
in New Zealand:
--
that (the group) urges (government/state) to recognise midwives as 
autonomous practitioners who work for the public good and as such should 
have access to the same medical rebates and government/state funded 
professional indemnity schemes as medical providers of the same maternity 
service.
-

Andrea R




>
>Could someone please refresh my memory with the reference / exact wording
>proposed last year as a resolution to be put to women's groups acknowledging
>the role of the midwife in Australian society. I have trawled the ozmid 
>archives
>& not been able to unearth it. I seem to remember that Andrea (Robertson) 
>posted
>a succinct version. In the midst of preparing various submissions & it 
>would be very handy, anybody 
>
>Regards
>Roz


-
Andrea Robertson
Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education

e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: www.birthinternational.com


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