Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
At least he was honest and gave her some options Sue The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing Edmund Burke - Original Message - From: Karen Shlegeris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 8:08 AM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] another induction I can imagine this would create problems due to logistics, because our OBs are so busy already. One yoga student of mine planned her active birth/VBAC with her OB extensively, then when she went a few days past due date he told her that he was sure she'd go into labour the following weekend when he wasn't on call. He told her that he didn't believe the on-call OB would support her desire for an active birth and that she'd be likely to end up with another caesarean, so she was convinced to have an induction by ARM and Synto (as her cervix was already soft). Luckily, all went well - she had a short labour and gave birth to her baby vaginally. She's very happy with the result and feels quite empowered. But what a sorry situation that is!! Karen in Townsville -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 7:05 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] another induction What is wrong with the Ob asking the covering ob to see all his women for one visit? Then the woman would have at least met the doctor who might be on when hers is away. In W.A. Homebirth midwives usually have a backup midwife who both covers her but also attends as second midwife at the birth. MM Honey wrote: what about the Private OB's who have every second weekend off (or only work every one in 3 weekends) and their backup OB covers, you go into labour on the weekend turn up and here is an OB you have never met before. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.13/78 - Release Date: 19/08/2005 -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] another induction
I can imagine this would create problems due to logistics, because our OBs are so busy already. One yoga student of mine planned her active birth/VBAC with her OB extensively, then when she went a few days past due date he told her that he was sure she'd go into labour the following weekend when he wasn't on call. He told her that he didn't believe the on-call OB would support her desire for an active birth and that she'd be likely to end up with another caesarean, so she was convinced to have an induction by ARM and Synto (as her cervix was already soft). Luckily, all went well - she had a short labour and gave birth to her baby vaginally. She's very happy with the result and feels quite empowered. But what a sorry situation that is!! Karen in Townsville -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mary Murphy Sent: Thursday, 18 August 2005 7:05 PM To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] another induction What is wrong with the Ob asking the covering ob to see all his women for one visit? Then the woman would have at least met the doctor who might be on when hers is away. In W.A. Homebirth midwives usually have a backup midwife who both covers her but also attends as second midwife at the birth. MM Honey wrote: what about the Private OB's who have every second weekend off (or only work every one in 3 weekends) and their backup OB covers, you go into labour on the weekend turn up and here is an OB you have never met before. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] another induction
What is wrong with the Ob asking the covering ob to see all his women for one visit? Then the woman would have at least met the doctor who might be on when hers is away. In W.A. Homebirth midwives usually have a backup midwife who both covers her but also attends as second midwife at the birth. MM Honey wrote: what about the Private OB's who have every second weekend off (or only work every one in 3 weekends) and their backup OB covers, you go into labour on the weekend turn up and here is an OB you have never met before. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
That would be the logical way to do it but I haven't seen it done unless the woman insists. What is wrong with the Ob asking the covering ob to see all his women for one visit? -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
How about OBs don't take on clients for when they plan to be on holidays? "I'm sorry but I'm away in April when your baby is due. Perhaps you'd like to see my colleague Dr So-and-so?" This all came up because this one has either taken a client on knowing that he would be on hols in her last weeks of pregnancy OR agreed to go away knowing in advance he has a client who will be nearing term. Either way it's just plain disgusting. Tcch tcch. J Joyous BirthHome birthforum. A world first! http://www://joyousbirth.info/forums Accessing Artemis- birth trauma recovery. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis From: "Honey Acharya" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auTo: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.auSubject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another inductionDate: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:09:51 +1000That would be the logical way to do it but I haven't seen it done unless thewoman insists."What is wrong with the Ob asking the "covering ob" to see all his women for one visit?"--This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics.Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Honey, The 4 Obs in the local practice do this routinely, introduce women to the covering OB for one visit so he is 'known' face if he's needed. It works OK. BM - Original Message - From: Honey Acharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction That would be the logical way to do it but I haven't seen it done unless the woman insists. What is wrong with the Ob asking the covering ob to see all his women for one visit? -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
I guess I'm having difficulty with the terms. Informed them later means they weren't told right at the time they started the contract with the mw, right? Surely it would not be difficult to book all holidays at least 9 mos ahead of time so that people know if you'll be in town or not? I only take on Conference speaking if I know at least one year ahead for that reason. I agree that mws need to take very good care of themselves and rejuvenate body and soul, but I don't get why the client can't be told before the first visit I'll be away when you are due. I have someone I trust who will be covering my practice so if you'd like to get your prenatal care with me, I'll introduce the covering mw to you at the end of your pregnancy. That type of statement makes it clear from the beginning what the plan is. I have the same impatience with drs who don't inform their clients long ahead of time that they work in a group practice of 10 other doctors. The woman doesn't stand a hope of getting the one that she sees regularly so why pretend? Birthing women deserve to be informed of these silent peculiarities so that they're not ambushed on the day the birth begins. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gloria, It is not 'lying' (definition: withholding or distorting truth) when a professional tells you up front what their plans are ! There is no lack of integrity in being honest. I know of 2 very prominent midwives who have done exactly what the OB mentioned in the original post did: went on hols after booking the client informed them later that they'd have to find their own cover for the absent period! Once informed it's up to the client to decide whether she chooses to work with that caregiver for her pregnancy. She has a choice if she understand that the person she is dealing with has hols booked for the time she's due she'll be cared for by the covering practitioner. We all have to have a life outside of work, as long as we are honest with our clients then it's up to them to make those decisions, that's what 'informed choice' is all about. If we never took leave we'd burn out in no time as we are on call from 37 to 43 weeks for births, there is no time when we can book a complete month off without actually taking the end of the month before the beginning of the month after off. IOL is another issue altogether the outrage is indeed warranted, yet there is always a percentage of women who still expect IOL on demand. BM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction When professionals disappoint and defraud their clientele, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of respect and mistrust which arises in the public. Giving prenatal care to a woman when one is planning to be away at the time of her birth is simply lying. This kind of lack of integrity has a great cost. Inducing for convenience of the practitioner is dangerous and unethical. I think the outrage is warranted. Primum non nocere. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting to introduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives do it tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi all, a woman I know has been asked by her OB if she will consent to be induced at 39 weeks (ie right now) because he's going away. Yes, you read it right. He took on a client knowing he was going to be away when she came to the end of her pregnancy OR he decided to go away after taking her on - either is appalling. I've sent her Henci Goer on induction along with my outrage and suggestion that she complain about him officially. I'm so enraged by it. I'm just livid! What other branch of medicine would this happen in??? Sigh. Roll on the medicare stuff and proper care for women and babies. J - almost despairing but not quite... Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first! http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Accessing Artemis Birth Trauma Recovery http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis -- This mailing list
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Hi everyone! A short introduction of myself: I am a mother of two / a maternity store owner / a childbirth educator and a natural birth activist from Finland. I have been reading Andrea Robertson's books and diary for a while and got a lot of help from her company in organising a new consept of childbirth preparation in Finland. Now I decided to follow this list for a while. In Finland childbirth is pretty medicalized, even though it is the midwives providing the care ( in doctor's supervision). I have now started a 7 week program for mothers and farthers to be, trying to educate them about the normal physiology of birth and the enermous inner strength and ability, that they have within their bodies. I am working together with couple of midwifes. Natural Childbirth is considered very hippy over here and is very very rare. Mothers don't generally feel a need for any preparation and the trust for the health care system is great. The first group, that I just finished a moth ago was a succes, some of the fathers especially said how sceptical they were to attend this course, but everyone was extremely happy in the end and felt sorry for all others, that were not attending. I think I have started something great, and hopefully it will grow into something big and the happy moms and dads will spread the word and more and more parents will find out about their options for a better birth. I am also educating all my sales people in the store about natural childbirth and breastfeeding, so they can even give advise in the store if the subject comes up with the moms. The discussion about the induction and the doctor going away for a holiday got me thinking how bad we really have things over here... In Finland you do your prenatal visits at the neuvola, where the nurse will see you until your birth. Some of the nurses have no practical knowlege of pregnancy and birth and quite often give unaccurate information for moms. But the neuvola service is well respected, and if they advice to start bottlefeeding for example, there is no reason to doubt this... We don't have a single Birthing Centre here, and homebirth is almost nonexistent (only ab.10-30 births a year). No expences are covered for a homebirth and it is hard to find a midwife for the job. The maternity hospital, which is considered closest to the midwifery model of care has ARM 32%, oxytocin 53%, episiotomy 14%, epidural 25%. So, the moms, that I am trying to educate don't really have a lot of choice here. They choose between couple of very similar hospitals, that's about how much they can do. When the labor starts, they will go to the hospital, and which ever midwife will be on shift will care for them. Often they will be cared by 3-4 midwifes until the baby is born. Sometimes it feels almost unfair to educate and train these moms for a natural birth, when you know what is waiting for them in the hospital. I am dreaming of opening a birth centre here in the future. Paivi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Well said Brenda, I know from working as RM/RN in rural hospitals, all of our doctors' will leave town on their holidays (cause you don't get a 'holiday if you stay in town with all of us knowing where you live!) and the clients know this. And for one of my babies I was one of those clients who kept my legs crossed until 38 weeks well and truly. Cheryl From: brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 11:39:18 +1000 Gloria, It is not 'lying' (definition: withholding or distorting truth) when a professional tells you up front what their plans are ! There is no lack of integrity in being honest. I know of 2 very prominent midwives who have done exactly what the OB mentioned in the original post did: went on hols after booking the client informed them later that they'd have to find their own cover for the absent period! Once informed it's up to the client to decide whether she chooses to work with that caregiver for her pregnancy. She has a choice if she understand that the person she is dealing with has hols booked for the time she's due she'll be cared for by the covering practitioner. We all have to have a life outside of work, as long as we are honest with our clients then it's up to them to make those decisions, that's what 'informed choice' is all about. If we never took leave we'd burn out in no time as we are on call from 37 to 43 weeks for births, there is no time when we can book a complete month off without actually taking the end of the month before the beginning of the month after off. IOL is another issue altogether the outrage is indeed warranted, yet there is always a percentage of women who still expect IOL on demand. BM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction When professionals disappoint and defraud their clientele, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of respect and mistrust which arises in the public. Giving prenatal care to a woman when one is planning to be away at the time of her birth is simply lying. This kind of lack of integrity has a great cost. Inducing for convenience of the practitioner is dangerous and unethical. I think the outrage is warranted. Primum non nocere. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting to introduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives do it tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi all, a woman I know has been asked by her OB if she will consent to be induced at 39 weeks (ie right now) because he's going away. Yes, you read it right. He took on a client knowing he was going to be away when she came to the end of her pregnancy OR he decided to go away after taking her on - either is appalling. I've sent her Henci Goer on induction along with my outrage and suggestion that she complain about him officially. I'm so enraged by it. I'm just livid! What other branch of medicine would this happen in??? Sigh. Roll on the medicare stuff and proper care for women and babies. J - almost despairing but not quite... Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first! http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Accessing Artemis Birth Trauma Recovery http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Welcome Paivi Sounds pretty much like Finland and Australia have more in common than we think Andrea Quanchi On 18/08/2005, at 5:58 AM, Päivi wrote: Hi everyone! A short introduction of myself: I am a mother of two / a maternity store owner / a childbirth educator and a natural birth activist from Finland. I have been reading Andrea Robertson's books and diary for a while and got a lot of help from her company in organising a new consept of childbirth preparation in Finland. Now I decided to follow this list for a while. In Finland childbirth is pretty medicalized, even though it is the midwives providing the care ( in doctor's supervision). I have now started a 7 week program for mothers and farthers to be, trying to educate them about the normal physiology of birth and the enermous inner strength and ability, that they have within their bodies. I am working together with couple of midwifes. Natural Childbirth is considered very hippy over here and is very very rare. Mothers don't generally feel a need for any preparation and the trust for the health care system is great. The first group, that I just finished a moth ago was a succes, some of the fathers especially said how sceptical they were to attend this course, but everyone was extremely happy in the end and felt sorry for all others, that were not attending. I think I have started something great, and hopefully it will grow into something big and the happy moms and dads will spread the word and more and more parents will find out about their options for a better birth. I am also educating all my sales people in the store about natural childbirth and breastfeeding, so they can even give advise in the store if the subject comes up with the moms. The discussion about the induction and the doctor going away for a holiday got me thinking how bad we really have things over here... In Finland you do your prenatal visits at the neuvola, where the nurse will see you until your birth. Some of the nurses have no practical knowlege of pregnancy and birth and quite often give unaccurate information for moms. But the neuvola service is well respected, and if they advice to start bottlefeeding for example, there is no reason to doubt this... We don't have a single Birthing Centre here, and homebirth is almost nonexistent (only ab.10-30 births a year). No expences are covered for a homebirth and it is hard to find a midwife for the job. The maternity hospital, which is considered closest to the midwifery model of care has ARM 32%, oxytocin 53%, episiotomy 14%, epidural 25%. So, the moms, that I am trying to educate don't really have a lot of choice here. They choose between couple of very similar hospitals, that's about how much they can do. When the labor starts, they will go to the hospital, and which ever midwife will be on shift will care for them. Often they will be cared by 3-4 midwifes until the baby is born. Sometimes it feels almost unfair to educate and train these moms for a natural birth, when you know what is waiting for them in the hospital. I am dreaming of opening a birth centre here in the future. Paivi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
RE: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Oh Paivi, As it's already been said, there are too many similarities between your country's maternity care systems and ours to go into... I just wanted to say that I'm sure anyone who longs for better births for women, and change in the system as a whole feels much of the despair you feel, about whether or not you are doing the women a disservice by setting them up for something they may not be able to achieve because of the system and its failings. But it sounds like you are doing something amazing, and keep believing in the small steps, the little changes in attitude, that will make a difference to each woman's birthing experience, and hopefully, lead to systemic change over time. The lead for this change has to come from the demands of the women, and if they know no better, and have no education about what can be, then it will never come. It sounds like you are providing them with a chance to see themselves as having a voice, and that's so important. Well done and welcome! Tania Independent Midwife SA Mother of 2 beautiful homeborn boys -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
This is certainly the sort of practice planning I hope for as a consumer. Obviously family and health emergencies happen and I would absolutely accept my midwife's referral to a trusted colleague if she had a funeral to attend interstate or some other genuine issue that is clearly more important than my plans to have her at my birth. I would not be nearly so agreeable about a spontaneous skiing trip, that sort of thing I DO expect birth professionals to book at least 9 months in advance so they can give you the choice to book with them or not. Jo At 7:45 AM -0700 17/8/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I'm having difficulty with the terms. Informed them later means they weren't told right at the time they started the contract with the mw, right? Surely it would not be difficult to book all holidays at least 9 mos ahead of time so that people know if you'll be in town or not? I only take on Conference speaking if I know at least one year ahead for that reason. I agree that mws need to take very good care of themselves and rejuvenate body and soul, but I don't get why the client can't be told before the first visit I'll be away when you are due. I have someone I trust who will be covering my practice so if you'd like to get your prenatal care with me, I'll introduce the covering mw to you at the end of your pregnancy. That type of statement makes it clear from the beginning what the plan is. I have the same impatience with drs who don't inform their clients long ahead of time that they work in a group practice of 10 other doctors. The woman doesn't stand a hope of getting the one that she sees regularly so why pretend? Birthing women deserve to be informed of these silent peculiarities so that they're not ambushed on the day the birth begins. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gloria, It is not 'lying' (definition: withholding or distorting truth) when a professional tells you up front what their plans are ! There is no lack of integrity in being honest. I know of 2 very prominent midwives who have done exactly what the OB mentioned in the original post did: went on hols after booking the client informed them later that they'd have to find their own cover for the absent period! Once informed it's up to the client to decide whether she chooses to work with that caregiver for her pregnancy. She has a choice if she understand that the person she is dealing with has hols booked for the time she's due she'll be cared for by the covering practitioner. We all have to have a life outside of work, as long as we are honest with our clients then it's up to them to make those decisions, that's what 'informed choice' is all about. If we never took leave we'd burn out in no time as we are on call from 37 to 43 weeks for births, there is no time when we can book a complete month off without actually taking the end of the month before the beginning of the month after off. IOL is another issue altogether the outrage is indeed warranted, yet there is always a percentage of women who still expect IOL on demand. BM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction When professionals disappoint and defraud their clientele, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of respect and mistrust which arises in the public. Giving prenatal care to a woman when one is planning to be away at the time of her birth is simply lying. This kind of lack of integrity has a great cost. Inducing for convenience of the practitioner is dangerous and unethical. I think the outrage is warranted. Primum non nocere. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting to introduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives do it tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi all, a woman I know has been asked by her OB if she will consent to be induced at 39 weeks (ie right now) because he's going away. Yes, you read it right. He took on a client knowing he was going to be away when she came to the end of her pregnancy OR he decided to go away after taking her on - either
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Gloria, That is why I was so horrified when the 2 prominent MW did exactly what they condemn Drs for ! I book a month off to actually get 2 weeks hols because of the 'overdue factor', but you are quite right. As a client I'd be mortified to see an unfamiliar face, in my home, when I'm in labour! BM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction I guess I'm having difficulty with the terms. Informed them later means they weren't told right at the time they started the contract with the mw, right? Surely it would not be difficult to book all holidays at least 9 mos ahead of time so that people know if you'll be in town or not? I only take on Conference speaking if I know at least one year ahead for that reason. I agree that mws need to take very good care of themselves and rejuvenate body and soul, but I don't get why the client can't be told before the first visit I'll be away when you are due. I have someone I trust who will be covering my practice so if you'd like to get your prenatal care with me, I'll introduce the covering mw to you at the end of your pregnancy. That type of statement makes it clear from the beginning what the plan is. I have the same impatience with drs who don't inform their clients long ahead of time that they work in a group practice of 10 other doctors. The woman doesn't stand a hope of getting the one that she sees regularly so why pretend? Birthing women deserve to be informed of these silent peculiarities so that they're not ambushed on the day the birth begins. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gloria, It is not 'lying' (definition: withholding or distorting truth) when a professional tells you up front what their plans are ! There is no lack of integrity in being honest. I know of 2 very prominent midwives who have done exactly what the OB mentioned in the original post did: went on hols after booking the client informed them later that they'd have to find their own cover for the absent period! Once informed it's up to the client to decide whether she chooses to work with that caregiver for her pregnancy. She has a choice if she understand that the person she is dealing with has hols booked for the time she's due she'll be cared for by the covering practitioner. We all have to have a life outside of work, as long as we are honest with our clients then it's up to them to make those decisions, that's what 'informed choice' is all about. If we never took leave we'd burn out in no time as we are on call from 37 to 43 weeks for births, there is no time when we can book a complete month off without actually taking the end of the month before the beginning of the month after off. IOL is another issue altogether the outrage is indeed warranted, yet there is always a percentage of women who still expect IOL on demand. BM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction When professionals disappoint and defraud their clientele, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of respect and mistrust which arises in the public. Giving prenatal care to a woman when one is planning to be away at the time of her birth is simply lying. This kind of lack of integrity has a great cost. Inducing for convenience of the practitioner is dangerous and unethical. I think the outrage is warranted. Primum non nocere. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting to introduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives do it tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi all, a woman I know has been asked by her OB if she will consent to be induced at 39 weeks (ie right now) because he's going away. Yes, you read it right. He took on a client knowing he was going to be away when she came to the end of her pregnancy OR he decided to go away after taking her on - either is appalling. I've sent her Henci Goer on induction along with my outrage and suggestion that she complain about him officially. I'm so enraged
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Welcome Paivi, You have got it right, don't ever doubt that there is a better way for women to receive pregnancy care than the way it's happening now. What you are suggesting is very right. Feeling that you are setting women up for disappointment is part of instigating change to some degree. They may not benefit initially but they pass on their knowledge expectations slowly the mindset changes. The next generation may be the ones who benefit. Change is not always Immediate. Some of the most experienced childbirth educators have been at it for decades, but change will happen if you persist. Good on you, I take my hat off to anyone withal vision for improving womens services who works on that vision, not just 'talks the talk', keep going, you need a dream to have a goal. If there is any way we as a group can help, let us know. All power to you! Brenda - Original Message - From: Päivi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 5:58 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi everyone! A short introduction of myself: I am a mother of two / a maternity store owner / a childbirth educator and a natural birth activist from Finland. I have been reading Andrea Robertson's books and diary for a while and got a lot of help from her company in organising a new consept of childbirth preparation in Finland. Now I decided to follow this list for a while. In Finland childbirth is pretty medicalized, even though it is the midwives providing the care ( in doctor's supervision). I have now started a 7 week program for mothers and farthers to be, trying to educate them about the normal physiology of birth and the enermous inner strength and ability, that they have within their bodies. I am working together with couple of midwifes. Natural Childbirth is considered very hippy over here and is very very rare. Mothers don't generally feel a need for any preparation and the trust for the health care system is great. The first group, that I just finished a moth ago was a succes, some of the fathers especially said how sceptical they were to attend this course, but everyone was extremely happy in the end and felt sorry for all others, that were not attending. I think I have started something great, and hopefully it will grow into something big and the happy moms and dads will spread the word and more and more parents will find out about their options for a better birth. I am also educating all my sales people in the store about natural childbirth and breastfeeding, so they can even give advise in the store if the subject comes up with the moms. The discussion about the induction and the doctor going away for a holiday got me thinking how bad we really have things over here... In Finland you do your prenatal visits at the neuvola, where the nurse will see you until your birth. Some of the nurses have no practical knowlege of pregnancy and birth and quite often give unaccurate information for moms. But the neuvola service is well respected, and if they advice to start bottlefeeding for example, there is no reason to doubt this... We don't have a single Birthing Centre here, and homebirth is almost nonexistent (only ab.10-30 births a year). No expences are covered for a homebirth and it is hard to find a midwife for the job. The maternity hospital, which is considered closest to the midwifery model of care has ARM 32%, oxytocin 53%, episiotomy 14%, epidural 25%. So, the moms, that I am trying to educate don't really have a lot of choice here. They choose between couple of very similar hospitals, that's about how much they can do. When the labor starts, they will go to the hospital, and which ever midwife will be on shift will care for them. Often they will be cared by 3-4 midwifes until the baby is born. Sometimes it feels almost unfair to educate and train these moms for a natural birth, when you know what is waiting for them in the hospital. I am dreaming of opening a birth centre here in the future. Paivi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
I know OB's who do inform their patients from day 1 and try to avoid taking on women who are due around when they will be away, but at the same time what about the Private OB's who have every second weekend off (or only work every one in 3 weekends) and their backup OB covers, you go into labour on the weekend turn up and here is an OB you have never met before. Happens here in Townsville all the time. (another reason they can give to inducea women during the week rather than introducing them to the other OB's in town). I understand why some might prefer inductions and c-sections when they are taking on 30 women a month they don't have the time to wait around and let women labour in their own time. They want some time off! Honey - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:45 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction I guess I'm having difficulty with the terms. Informed them later means they weren't told right at the time they started the contract with the mw, right? Surely it would not be difficult to book all holidays at least 9 mos ahead of time so that people know if you'll be in town or not? I only take on Conference speaking if I know at least one year ahead for that reason. I agree that mws need to take very good care of themselves and rejuvenate body and soul, but I don't get why the client can't be told before the first visit I'll be away when you are due. I have someone I trust who will be covering my practice so if you'd like to get your prenatal care with me, I'll introduce the covering mw to you at the end of your pregnancy. That type of statement makes it clear from the beginning what the plan is. I have the same impatience with drs who don't inform their clients long ahead of time that they work in a group practice of 10 other doctors. The woman doesn't stand a hope of getting the one that she sees regularly so why pretend? Birthing women deserve to be informed of these silent peculiarities so that they're not ambushed on the day the birth begins. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Gloria, It is not 'lying' (definition: withholding or distorting truth) when a professional tells you up front what their plans are ! There is no lack of integrity in being honest. I know of 2 very prominent midwives who have done exactly what the OB mentioned in the original post did: went on hols after booking the client informed them later that they'd have to find their own cover for the absent period! Once informed it's up to the client to decide whether she chooses to work with that caregiver for her pregnancy. She has a choice if she understand that the person she is dealing with has hols booked for the time she's due she'll be cared for by the covering practitioner. We all have to have a life outside of work, as long as we are honest with our clients then it's up to them to make those decisions, that's what 'informed choice' is all about. If we never took leave we'd burn out in no time as we are on call from 37 to 43 weeks for births, there is no time when we can book a complete month off without actually taking the end of the month before the beginning of the month after off. IOL is another issue altogether the outrage is indeed warranted, yet there is always a percentage of women who still expect IOL on demand. BM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction When professionals disappoint and defraud their clientele, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of respect and mistrust which arises in the public. Giving prenatal care to a woman when one is planning to be away at the time of her birth is simply lying. This kind of lack of integrity has a great cost. Inducing for convenience of the practitioner is dangerous and unethical. I think the outrage is warranted. Primum non nocere. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting to introduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives do it tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Personally I hope that my healthcare practitioners will schedule holidays to recharge their batteries. My MW had a month off while I was pg and I felt happy that she was doing that rather than working to the point of exhaustion. The point is that seeking to induce a client because of a holiday is abhorrent in the extreme. I wonder if the OB is planning to go to her home and help her with her potential PND and/or PTSD from the induction, pay for formula when bf doesn't work out because the woman didn't spontaneously labour and the baby was too undercooked to bf properly. Or will he pay for her counselling from an emergency hysterectomy when the unnecessary induction turns into an iatrogenic c-sec which goes pearshaped? I don't think anyone is opposed to Obs having a life, but having a life at the potentially fatal expense of their clients ought to result in being struck off. The woman was given no warning or any kind that this was coming. Just bang on the 39 week appt he tells her. Unbelievably appalling :( I know you share my horror! J Joyous BirthHome birthforum. A world first! http://www://joyousbirth.info/forums Accessing Artemis- birth trauma recovery. http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting tointroduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives doit tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi all, a woman I know has been asked by her OB if she will consent to be induced at 39 weeks (ie right now)because he's going away. Yes, you read it right. He took on a client knowing he was going to be away when she came to the end of her pregnancy OR he decided to go away after taking her on -either is appalling. I've sent her Henci Goer on induction along with my outrage and suggestion that she complain about him officially. I'm so enraged by it. I'm just livid! What other branch of medicine would this happen in??? Sigh. Roll on the medicare stuff and proper care for women and babies. J - almost despairing but not quite... Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first!http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Accessing Artemis Birth Trauma Recoveryhttp://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
When professionals disappoint and defraud their clientele, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of respect and mistrust which arises in the public. Giving prenatal care to a woman when one is planning to be away at the time of her birth is simply lying. This kind of lack of integrity has a great cost. Inducing for convenience of the practitioner is dangerous and unethical. I think the outrage is warranted. Primum non nocere. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting to introduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives do it tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi all, a woman I know has been asked by her OB if she will consent to be induced at 39 weeks (ie right now) because he's going away. Yes, you read it right. He took on a client knowing he was going to be away when she came to the end of her pregnancy OR he decided to go away after taking her on - either is appalling. I've sent her Henci Goer on induction along with my outrage and suggestion that she complain about him officially. I'm so enraged by it. I'm just livid! What other branch of medicine would this happen in??? Sigh. Roll on the medicare stuff and proper care for women and babies. J - almost despairing but not quite... Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first! http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Accessing Artemis Birth Trauma Recovery http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction
Gloria, It is not 'lying' (definition: withholding or distorting truth) when a professional tells you up front what their plans are ! There is no lack of integrity in being honest. I know of 2 very prominent midwives who have done exactly what the OB mentioned in the original post did: went on hols after booking the client informed them later that they'd have to find their own cover for the absent period! Once informed it's up to the client to decide whether she chooses to work with that caregiver for her pregnancy. She has a choice if she understand that the person she is dealing with has hols booked for the time she's due she'll be cared for by the covering practitioner. We all have to have a life outside of work, as long as we are honest with our clients then it's up to them to make those decisions, that's what 'informed choice' is all about. If we never took leave we'd burn out in no time as we are on call from 37 to 43 weeks for births, there is no time when we can book a complete month off without actually taking the end of the month before the beginning of the month after off. IOL is another issue altogether the outrage is indeed warranted, yet there is always a percentage of women who still expect IOL on demand. BM - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] another induction When professionals disappoint and defraud their clientele, they have only themselves to blame for the lack of respect and mistrust which arises in the public. Giving prenatal care to a woman when one is planning to be away at the time of her birth is simply lying. This kind of lack of integrity has a great cost. Inducing for convenience of the practitioner is dangerous and unethical. I think the outrage is warranted. Primum non nocere. Gloria Quoting brendamanning [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Janet, This IOL for Drs going on holidays happens all the time ! I'm not saying it's right, just that it's very common. It's also very common to book women knowing that the OB will be on leave when she's due a colleague will cover, but they usually tell the woman that this is the case. I'm not into defending Obs generally but they are entitled to a life. It is the usual routine polite for them to schedule a meeting to introduce the covering OB to the woman so they've met at least once prior to the birth though. Don't despair, midwives do it tooas a group we aren't above reproach ! Brenda - Original Message - From: Janet Fraser To: ozmidwifery@acegraphics.com.au Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 8:10 PM Subject: [ozmidwifery] another induction Hi all, a woman I know has been asked by her OB if she will consent to be induced at 39 weeks (ie right now) because he's going away. Yes, you read it right. He took on a client knowing he was going to be away when she came to the end of her pregnancy OR he decided to go away after taking her on - either is appalling. I've sent her Henci Goer on induction along with my outrage and suggestion that she complain about him officially. I'm so enraged by it. I'm just livid! What other branch of medicine would this happen in??? Sigh. Roll on the medicare stuff and proper care for women and babies. J - almost despairing but not quite... Joyous Birth Home Birth Forum - a world first! http://www.joyousbirth.info/forums/ Accessing Artemis Birth Trauma Recovery http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/accessingartemis -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit http://www.acegraphics.com.au to subscribe or unsubscribe.
