Re: [packman] rebuilding gstreamer every day?
Hey, On 19.06.2016 21:36, Richard Brown wrote: UNTESTED and NOT SUPPORTED by the openSUSE Project (yet) You seem to misunderstand our relationship. Packman does not follow openSUSEs definition of tested and supported. The whole reason we have started this repo is because we don't :-) Additionally everyone seems to misunderstand that we are not here for providing multimedia capabilities and other sketchy apps for openSUSE. That might be the impression that openSUSE is giving, because it's the only situation where openSUSE points to Packman, but it's not what Packman is about. We build software that is not shipped as part of distributions or that are shipped as an outdated version. This includes ffmpeg 3.0.2. If something needs to change, it's openSUSEs understanding of what Packman is and with expectations openSUSE gives people about Packman. And if you need someone that 'just' rebuilds your sketchy packages and is taking all the risks this brings you are at the wrong place here, sorry :-) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang http://hennevogel.de "To die. In the rain. Alone." Ernest Hemingway ___ Packman mailing list Packman@links2linux.de http://lists.links2linux.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/packman
Re: [packman] Please update youtube-dl
* Mathias Homann (mathias.hom...@opensuse.org) [20160721 17:06]: > Automated rebuilds are working again. the package will not be deleted, since > it is usually several versions ahead of the one on OBS. Then why don't you get an OBS account and request being added to the package maintainers? Then it could be deleted here. Philipp ___ Packman mailing list Packman@links2linux.de http://lists.links2linux.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/packman
Re: [packman] ffmpeg & gstreamer mess
On 7/22/16, Sergey Kondakov wrote: > On 20.06.2016 00:36, Richard Brown wrote: >> On 19 June 2016 at 16:41, Dave Plater wrote: The pkg in multimedia:libs is about one hundred, thousand, million times more at risk of being broken than the pkg in Factory >>> >>> Not if it's well maintained >> >> There is _NO SUCH THING_ as a well maintained Devel Project. >> >> https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_development_model >> >> They EXIST to be where things are put together, broken and ultimately >> fixed before being submitted to Factory for testing into Tumbleweed >> >> A Devel Project which doesn't break from time to time is not doing >> it's job properly. >> > > You may repeat that as long as you like just to make en excuse for your > team's > bad maintenance practices of OBS but no actual user will ever believe that. > Also, minuscule and specific testing in virtual machines or whatever you do > in > that "openQA" has never saved from actual problems even while using 100% > official packages. Probably not because it's bad but because it's not enough > to > negate dumb human decisions, overcomplex bureaucracy with the lack of > well-structured up-to-date human-readable guides to deal with it, lack of > actual > usage and belief that your dysfunctional defaults (once again, screw KDE5, > Gnome3, VLC, pulseaudio, wicked, kernel-default and, especially, BTRFS !) is > the > one and only way to do things. > Because it's a devel project, where packages are MEANT to be broken from time to time, meanwhile we KNOW the ffmpeg packages in Factory work as they get tested in openQA as part of the VLC testing. I've said it before and I'll say it again Packman building against multimedia:libs has always been silly >>> >>> Once Packman packages weren't linked and that resulted in many >>> problems with incompatible libraries and out of sync maintenance. >> >> >> In short, this is dangerous, wrong, stupid and downright idiotic.. and >> I'm being polite and holding back what i really think about it. >> >> At the very LEAST ffmpeg in Packman should be linked to >> Factory/Tumbleweed >> >> Packman for Leap should be linked to the version in Leap, so that >> users do not have to suffer needless risk upgrading their packages. > > For once we agree ! Building anything against non-official repo version of > something so fundamental as ffmpeg is almost as idiotic and irresponsible as > > removing distribution installer from the official repo of that > distribution. > - > Instead, "TW" should get kick in the ass to update its ffmpeg version. > > VLC and mpv aren't the only packages depending on it, you know ! But then > again, > we're talking about the people who seem to removed 32bit gstreamer packages > from > Packman's TW repo even though wine's A/V capabilities are dependant upon > them. > And because of things like that whole wine bugtracker is filled with > complaints > for years ( https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9127 ) from users who's > > distribution doesn't build it properly. Goodbye, pre-rendered cutscenes in > games > and multimedia applications in general. > - > Why the hell there is there "Factory" and "TW" repoes with different > configuration and packages ? Which one a normal person should use ? > > You both, TW team and Packman team, are at fault here. > * Just update ffmpeg in TW. > * Link ffmpeg and gstreamer and any other >framework for each distro independently. > * Work on better unnecessary rebuild-avoidance for OBS. > * Whatever commercial entity owns openSUSE should buy Packman servers, > since >it purposely made any openSUSE desktop installation 100% dependant upon > it. >Novell had a Russian office, Russian law spits on software patenting, >they can have them there legally. > > I would say that if anything happens with Packman then, most likely, > openSUSE > will lose all its non-server installations. > >>> Packman is a safe way for users to get the newest packages, especially >>> Leap users because it rarely gets new packages. It's a pity somebody >>> doesn't donate some extra server power to Packman to speed up the >>> build cycle. Maintaining the Packman packages in multimedia apps and >>> libs has taken away the old volatility that used to come from Packman. >>> It's a far better option to enabling multiple obs repositories for Leap. >> >> No, Packman is not a safe way and this thread is sadly yet another >> example of packman maintainers ignoring sound advice from seasoned >> packagers who know what they're talking about. >> >> And I'm not really talking about myself, you can ignore me all you >> want, but Bjorn is an expert on all things packaging and OBS, >> especially when it comes to large projects, it's downright crazy that >> his good advice appears to be ignored. >> >> Just as Tomas Chvatal's has been ignored on this list repeatedly. >> >> Please guys, I've been a long supporter of Packman, even running >> several servers fo
[packman] ffmpeg & gstreamer mess
On 20.06.2016 00:36, Richard Brown wrote: On 19 June 2016 at 16:41, Dave Plater wrote: The pkg in multimedia:libs is about one hundred, thousand, million times more at risk of being broken than the pkg in Factory Not if it's well maintained There is _NO SUCH THING_ as a well maintained Devel Project. https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Factory_development_model They EXIST to be where things are put together, broken and ultimately fixed before being submitted to Factory for testing into Tumbleweed A Devel Project which doesn't break from time to time is not doing it's job properly. You may repeat that as long as you like just to make en excuse for your team's bad maintenance practices of OBS but no actual user will ever believe that. Also, minuscule and specific testing in virtual machines or whatever you do in that "openQA" has never saved from actual problems even while using 100% official packages. Probably not because it's bad but because it's not enough to negate dumb human decisions, overcomplex bureaucracy with the lack of well-structured up-to-date human-readable guides to deal with it, lack of actual usage and belief that your dysfunctional defaults (once again, screw KDE5, Gnome3, VLC, pulseaudio, wicked, kernel-default and, especially, BTRFS !) is the one and only way to do things. Because it's a devel project, where packages are MEANT to be broken from time to time, meanwhile we KNOW the ffmpeg packages in Factory work as they get tested in openQA as part of the VLC testing. I've said it before and I'll say it again Packman building against multimedia:libs has always been silly Once Packman packages weren't linked and that resulted in many problems with incompatible libraries and out of sync maintenance. In short, this is dangerous, wrong, stupid and downright idiotic.. and I'm being polite and holding back what i really think about it. At the very LEAST ffmpeg in Packman should be linked to Factory/Tumbleweed Packman for Leap should be linked to the version in Leap, so that users do not have to suffer needless risk upgrading their packages. For once we agree ! Building anything against non-official repo version of something so fundamental as ffmpeg is almost as idiotic and irresponsible as removing distribution installer from the official repo of that distribution. - Instead, "TW" should get kick in the ass to update its ffmpeg version. VLC and mpv aren't the only packages depending on it, you know ! But then again, we're talking about the people who seem to removed 32bit gstreamer packages from Packman's TW repo even though wine's A/V capabilities are dependant upon them. And because of things like that whole wine bugtracker is filled with complaints for years ( https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9127 ) from users who's distribution doesn't build it properly. Goodbye, pre-rendered cutscenes in games and multimedia applications in general. - Why the hell there is there "Factory" and "TW" repoes with different configuration and packages ? Which one a normal person should use ? You both, TW team and Packman team, are at fault here. * Just update ffmpeg in TW. * Link ffmpeg and gstreamer and any other framework for each distro independently. * Work on better unnecessary rebuild-avoidance for OBS. * Whatever commercial entity owns openSUSE should buy Packman servers, since it purposely made any openSUSE desktop installation 100% dependant upon it. Novell had a Russian office, Russian law spits on software patenting, they can have them there legally. I would say that if anything happens with Packman then, most likely, openSUSE will lose all its non-server installations. Packman is a safe way for users to get the newest packages, especially Leap users because it rarely gets new packages. It's a pity somebody doesn't donate some extra server power to Packman to speed up the build cycle. Maintaining the Packman packages in multimedia apps and libs has taken away the old volatility that used to come from Packman. It's a far better option to enabling multiple obs repositories for Leap. No, Packman is not a safe way and this thread is sadly yet another example of packman maintainers ignoring sound advice from seasoned packagers who know what they're talking about. And I'm not really talking about myself, you can ignore me all you want, but Bjorn is an expert on all things packaging and OBS, especially when it comes to large projects, it's downright crazy that his good advice appears to be ignored. Just as Tomas Chvatal's has been ignored on this list repeatedly. Please guys, I've been a long supporter of Packman, even running several servers for pmbs before I changed employer, so not erode my goodwill and poison my soft spot for your efforts by stubbornly sticking to your guns and risking the smooth operation of Tumbleweed and Leap users in the process. Please link your packages more appropriately. Please do whatever you can to avoid u