Re: [PD] howto patch .diff files ?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Rich E wrote:
> I was using Pd-extended for a while and I came to like [closebang],  but
> now I've updated to Miller's .40-1 version.. which doesn't have it.  I
> found the closeinitbang.diff file on sourceforge, but I don't understand
> how to apply it to the source package.
> 
> I try:
> 
> patch closeinitbang.diff

almost

> 
> and it hangs up... maybe I'm bad at reading manuals.

man patch


patch waits for the diff-file at the stdin, it doesn't read the file
itself (probably there is a switch, but i don't know)

try:

patch < closeinitbang.diff

mfg.asdr
IOhannes

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Thomas Grill hat gesagt: // Thomas Grill wrote:

> Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann:
> 
> >although i don't really like this clause, the following description is
> >quite clear:
> >http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF
> 
> I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if  
> there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd  
> plugins.

You could always "resolve that legal problem by adding an exception
to your plug-in's license, giving permission to link it with the
non-free main program." [1]

I always assumed, that flext had such a clause, as obviously it is
intended to be used with the non-free Max/MSP as well.

> I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is  
> odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different  
> license. Idealism gone.

Why is it odd, that the GPL does not permit linking GPL-binaries with
closed-source programs as default? I think, it was one of the
motivations of Stallman to make a clear cut between non-free and free
software, because his original goal was to develop "a sufficient body
of free software so that I will be able to get along without any
software that is not free." [1] (If all that is a good idea, is
another discussion, of course.)

[1] http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF
[2] http://www.gnu.org/gnu/initial-announcement.html

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Cypod]

I use a mini-dvi to svideo dongle on my powerbook for my pd-VJ
performances. With the main screen to control the patch and the second
screen as a video source. The way that I get rid of the title bar is by
using the gemwin initialization values to offset and resize the video so
that it comes in on the second screen with the tittle bar just outside of
the boundary of the second window.

On 3/8/07, Claude Heiland-Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Sciss wrote:
> by the way, how do i filter out the key from the right outlet of
> [gemkeyname]? like if i want to filter out "x", i try [gemkeyname] ->
> [route symbol] -> [route x] but it never gets through, although if i
> connect a [print], it says "print: symbol x" if i press the
> corresponding key is there a name to get the ascii code so i can
> wait for the escape-key?

  |
[select x]
  |  |
  | all other messages
  |
bang if "symbol x"


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list





--
B~
www.cypod.co.nr
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:16 PM, Thomas Grill wrote:

>
> Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann:
>
>> On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:37 +0100, Thomas Grill wrote:
 Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating  
 the
 GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not
 violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it  
 makes
 sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt
 violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that
 catches
 just that?

>>> To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if
>>> they were shipped closed-source with Max.
>>> If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see
>>> why this
>>> should be a problem.
>>
>> although i don't really like this clause, the following  
>> description is
>> quite clear:
>> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF
>
> I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if
> there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd
> plugins.
> I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is
> odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different
> license. Idealism gone.

Its a catch22 in the license, but it would only be a problem if the  
copyright holder enforces it.  If you are the copyright holder, and  
you don't decide to enforce that particular part of the license, then  
there is no other problem.

.hc

>
> greetings,
> Thomas
>
> --
> Thomas Grill
> http://g.org
>
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
> listinfo/pd-list



 


Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a  
more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in  
practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pduino 0.3 release

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Sure, thanks for testing it.  I'd like to add pulseOut() and shiftOut 
(), do you have any devices that need that, like servos or character  
displays?  I don't so...

.hc

On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:18 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

> hello hans
>
> cool! i will test it as soon as i will get my arduino in my fingers
> again.
>
> and:
>
> many thanks or all that work you invested in this project!
>
> cheers
> roman
>
> On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 01:04 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>> http://at.or.at/hans/pd/objects.html
>>
>> You can read all about the protocol design here:
>>
>> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Interfacing/Sensorbox
>>
>> Here are some key changes:
>> - new MIDI-based protocol
>> - rebuilt from scratch, cleaner and smaller code
>> - timer-based loop to poll analogIns and serial
>> - the firmware will report its version, and blink the version at boot
>> - reduced serial speed to 57600 to work around glitches
>> - Makefile to build from command line
>>
>> Hopefully this works better, test it out and let me know.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> - 
>> ---
>>
>> Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a
>> more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in
>> practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> PD-announce mailing list
>> PD-announce@iem.at
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
>>
>> ___
>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
>> listinfo/pd-list
>
>
>   
> ___
> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http:// 
> messenger.yahoo.de
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
> listinfo/pd-list



 


Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a  
more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in  
practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] pd ext -> 0.40

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Try an auto-build, but it might be rough:

http://autobuild.puredata.info

.hc

On Mar 8, 2007, at 6:09 AM, robbert van hulzen wrote:

> hello berliner listers,
> is there anyone here that would like to help me set up pd 0.40 with
> externals, i'm cvs challenged and generally kind of lost as to  
> where to
> start. reading lots of documentation but it kind of feels like i'm  
> walking
> around the mountain not knowing where to start climbing.
> cheers, robbert
>
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
> listinfo/pd-list



 


Mistrust authority - promote decentralization.  - the hacker ethic



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] generative patches on mobile phones?

[Cypod]

speaking of using www.processing.org to make java, is there anyway to load a
pd patch into processing?

On 3/8/07, Chris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 02:06:38AM -0800, yukio kuroiwa wrote:
> hi, sorry for this stupid question... is a way of making generative pd
> patches for mobile phones?
> or is there any other alternative of creating generative music for
> mobile phones that support java?

Hi Yukio,

Not a stupid question. I am sure it's possible to make generative
patches for mobile phones, but it would take a lot of work.

Firstly, you might like to check out PDa which is a stripped back
fixed-point version of Pure Data which you can compile for many different
embedded processors such as those used in mobile phones.  You'd then
need to get a compiler for each phone that you wanted to do this on and
make PDa compile for that phone.  

As for Java, perhaps you could use some parts of the jMax project? Or
you could roll your own solution, but in my experience there is a large
variance in the capabilities of Java on mobile phones (so much for
"machine independence").

Best,

Chris.

---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mccormick.cx

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list





--
B~
www.cypod.co.nr
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] howto patch .diff files ?

[Rich E]

I was using Pd-extended for a while and I came to like [closebang],  but now
I've updated to Miller's .40-1 version.. which doesn't have it.  I found the
closeinitbang.diff file on sourceforge, but I don't understand how to apply
it to the source package.

I try:

patch closeinitbang.diff

and it hangs up... maybe I'm bad at reading manuals.

cheers,
rich
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] [PD-announce] Patching Circle in Brooklyn

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

http://idmi.poly.edu/node/119

We spend enough time alone staring at our computers; we are proposing  
to work together. So often issues that arise when working can be  
solved with a quick two minute discussion that would take hours to  
solve alone. We have Dorkbot to see people's work, we have Share  
where anyone can play, we have workshops and universities to learn  
from. But we don't have a meeting where we all can come to work.

This is an informal gathering of patching and patchers (Max/MSP/ 
Jitter, Pure Data, and even jMax, EyesWeb, , etc.).  Beginners  
and Experienced welcome. Work on projects, school work, ask for help,  
help others, or just patch quietly to yourself, in a room full of  
other people patching patches and helping other people patch.

This Thursday, the 15th from 6pm til we are done.

Rogers Hall, room 207 (building A on the directions page)
IDMI/Polytechnic University
Six MetroTech Center (Jay St btw Johnson and Willoughby)
downtown Brooklyn
718 260 3693 (you might have to call to get in)

Maps: http://tinyurl.com/ye5c53 - http://tinyurl.com/3al4sm

http://www.poly.edu/directions/



 


As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be  
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and  
this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin



___
PD-announce mailing list
PD-announce@iem.at
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] law bla bla (was:Re: Percolate)

[marius schebella]

law is not such a high above religion or a well hidden secret.
you can read about court decisions, there are some videos on google at 
al, so I can only encourage everybody to start reading.
plus: things are really changing and adapting to new situations 
(although slowly). but courts are aware of new forms of groupings and 
common workflows.
usually such cases can't be generalized. like if you use software which 
is released under uncertain licences, then the court will look at for 
which purpose did you use the software, how big was the market effect 
(like did you make money with it, or did the author lose money by the 
infringement). and so on.
It is true that laws are different in different countries, but for me it 
is also true that we live in civilized cultures and there is a "feeling" 
for what is right and what not...
marius.


there is also a problem that who will be sueing when some

On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:14 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

 > > Chris McCormick wrote:
 >> >>
 >> >> What does it mean if they violate the GPL and do so anyway? What
 >> >> does it
 >> >> mean for people who use the software?
 > >
 > > the problem is, that asking this questions is not as simple (i think,
 > > being no lawyer myself).
 > >
 > > it is rather:
 > > what does it mean to ... in the US? what does it meant to ... in
 > > austria? what does it meant to ... in germany? and so forth.
 > >
 > > (there probably (but who knows...) will be little differences between
 > > the austrian and german legal state, but i am pretty sure that there
 > > will be major differences between the anglo-american and the european
 > > way. (and other ways too, but about these i know even less)

I think that they are not as big as you'd guess because there are
international treaties that are all about making these laws work in
the same ways across borders.  Copyright, patents, and trademarks act
quite similarly in all countries that participate in these treaties
(which is most).

 >> >> It's confusing, which is why a real lawyer is needed to answer these
 >> >> questions.
 > >
 > > this is why it would require a host of lawyers.
 > > and that is the fun part of all this.
 > >
 > > things are certainly better in CreativeCommons (among other things
 > > because they are less u.s.-centric than the FSF).

Hmm, that's debatable.  They don't have a license without an
attribution clause, it's not even an option. And the CC attribution
clause is much worse than the BSD attribution clause ever was.

.hc

 > >
 > >
 > > mfgasd.r
 > > IOhannes
 > >
 > > ___
 > > PD-list@iem.at mailing list
 > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/
 > > listinfo/pd-list






http://at.or.at/hans/



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[David Powers]

On 3/8/07, Thomas Grill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann:

> > although i don't really like this clause, the following description is
> > quite clear:
> > http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF
>
> I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if
> there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd
> plugins.
> I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is
> odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different
> license. Idealism gone.
>

Not to mention, that the GPL has never been rigorously tested in a
court of law. At least in the United States, such matters are in
something of a legal limbo, until the courts set precedents.

Interestingly, this identical issue came up on the ChucK list today.
There is a [chuck~] external for max/msp, which it turns out probably
violates the GPL.

Anyway, I'm all for the pragmatic approach as Thomas Grill has just
expressed ... (Just like, if I decide I want to sample a Prince song
tomorrow night, I'm going to do it, copyright laws be damned...!)

~David

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Mar 8, 2007, at 5:14 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

> Chris McCormick wrote:
>>
>> What does it mean if they violate the GPL and do so anyway? What  
>> does it
>> mean for people who use the software?
>
> the problem is, that asking this questions is not as simple (i think,
> being no lawyer myself).
>
> it is rather:
> what does it mean to ... in the US? what does it meant to ... in
> austria? what does it meant to ... in germany? and so forth.
>
> (there probably (but who knows...) will be little differences between
> the austrian and german legal state, but i am pretty sure that there
> will be major differences between the anglo-american and the european
> way. (and other ways too, but about these i know even less)

I think that they are not as big as you'd guess because there are  
international treaties that are all about making these laws work in  
the same ways across borders.  Copyright, patents, and trademarks act  
quite similarly in all countries that participate in these treaties  
(which is most).

>> It's confusing, which is why a real lawyer is needed to answer these
>> questions.
>
> this is why it would require a host of lawyers.
> and that is the fun part of all this.
>
> things are certainly better in CreativeCommons (among other things
> because they are less u.s.-centric than the FSF).

Hmm, that's debatable.  They don't have a license without an  
attribution clause, it's not even an option. And the CC attribution  
clause is much worse than the BSD attribution clause ever was.

.hc

>
>
> mfgasd.r
> IOhannes
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
> listinfo/pd-list



 


   http://at.or.at/hans/



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] PD Workshop files

[Pete Redest]

Totally agree with you. This is NOT the way to get stuff from a CVS repo.
Only posted it following the insistence that I perceived in using wget for
this. I mistakenly took some observations by IOhannes as suggesting to
go this way, so that I created the script... IOhannes posted a clarification
in the meantime. I stand corrected.

Indeed, DON'T USE this script. It is a very awkward way to get the files,
very inefficient, defeats the workings of CVS and is against good cyber-
manners.

Best,
-P

>From: Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: pd-list@iem.at
>Subject: Re: [PD] PD Workshop files
>Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:36:35 +0100
>
>Hallo,
>Pete Redest hat gesagt: // Pete Redest wrote:
>
> > Anyways, for the benefit of Jared and of others interested in 
>downloading
> > the examples/tutorial/workshop from CVS, I am attaching a script,
> > which surely can be adjusted/improved in several ways. The script
> > is just what worked for me.
>
>Please never use this script!!!
>
>It's bad practice, not polite at all and in some circles even
>considered extremely rude to ignore the instructions in "robots.txt"!
>
>And it's not necessary at all: Instead of abusing wget as a CVS-tool,
>one should just get comfortable with a real CVS-utility.
>
>Ciao
>--
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
>___
>PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

_
Rates near 39yr lows!  $430K Loan for $1,399/mo - Paying Too Much? Calculate 
new payment 
http://www.lowermybills.com/lre/index.jsp?sourceid=lmb-9632-18226&moid=7581


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] PD-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 41

[David Powers]

On 3/8/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hallo,
> Jukka Boehm hat gesagt: // Jukka Boehm wrote:
>
> > Thank you, I got the point, that help-files
> > in the context-menu of an object are not
> > necessariely linked to the correspondig
> > "doc.Resource". Yes,- I?am  using the
> > counter described in "cyclone". In "test4"
> > the counter was working like in the "markex"
> > -help-file shown.
> > "/Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7.app/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/
> > cyclone/counter.pd"
> > "/Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7.app/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/
> > markex/counter-help.pd"
>
> You *may* be able to use a specific counter by giving it a path like
> [markex/counter] or [cyclone/counter]. But I didn't test this and it
> may still be that one overwrites the other.
>
> As there are several incompatible [counter] externals, I really would
> recommend to avoid them all and replace them with a custom one built
> with internal objects. Attached counting tutorial may give you a
> start. Then you could just build a counter you like, give it a
> personal name like jukka-counter.pd and replace all counters you use
> with that one, for example using an object replacement script as
> describe in the "tips and tricks" page on puredata.info
>
> Ciao
> --
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>

That's nice, too bad I didn't have this advice a year ago. Back then I
just started VJing, my patches weren't put together that well, then I
got a new version of pd-extended and it broke all my counters (I was
using the one from GEM). It took me a week to fix all my broken
abstractions!!!

Now I know enough python, that I could probably have found a way to
replace the [counter] objects automatically with some other
abstraction, using some script, but I wasn't prepared to do that back
then.

Actually, it would be cool to have a repository for Python scripts to
do this kind of thing, and other useful PD-related tasks. I'm doing
little scripts using python image library that are very useful
preparing images for Gem. But maybe anybody who cares can already do
it themselves, I don't know...

~David

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] generative patches on mobile phones?

[Chris McCormick]

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 02:06:38AM -0800, yukio kuroiwa wrote:
> hi, sorry for this stupid question... is a way of making generative pd
> patches for mobile phones?
> or is there any other alternative of creating generative music for
> mobile phones that support java?

Hi Yukio,

Not a stupid question. I am sure it's possible to make generative
patches for mobile phones, but it would take a lot of work.

Firstly, you might like to check out PDa which is a stripped back
fixed-point version of Pure Data which you can compile for many different
embedded processors such as those used in mobile phones.  You'd then
need to get a compiler for each phone that you wanted to do this on and
make PDa compile for that phone.  

As for Java, perhaps you could use some parts of the jMax project? Or
you could roll your own solution, but in my experience there is a large
variance in the capabilities of Java on mobile phones (so much for
"machine independence").

Best,

Chris.

---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mccormick.cx

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] Legality of plugins (was Re: Percolate)

[Chris McCormick]

On Fri, Mar 09, 2007 at 12:16:28AM +0100, Thomas Grill wrote:
> Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann:
> >On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:37 +0100, Thomas Grill wrote:
> >>To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if
> >>they were shipped closed-source with Max.
> >>If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see  
> >>why this
> >>should be a problem.
> >
> >although i don't really like this clause, the following description is
> >quite clear:
> >http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF
> 
> I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if  
> there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd  
> plugins.

Even if you are not distributing them together, when the user combines
them they are doing something that is illegal with respect to the GPL.
It's the same with running binary kernel modules with the Linux Kernel.
Lots of people think it's ok, but it's technically illegal.

GPL v3 I think has better ways of allowing this. If your plugins are
licensed "GPL v2 or later" then they will be able to take advantage of
that. In any case, you have copyright of the software and hence you
can change the license any time you wish, even to a commercial one
(but somebody could fork the old GPL one).

> I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is  
> odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different  
> license. Idealism gone.

"However, you can resolve that legal problem by adding an exception to
your plug-in's license, giving permission to link it with the non-free
main program."
-- http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF

Or you can use the LGPL which lets you link with non-free software,
but still requires that if people modify your plugin code itself they
must re-distribute their changes under the LGPL. This seems to be the
best option for what you want to do (if you are still concerned with
your users' freedom).

Best,

Chris.

---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mccormick.cx

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] [OT] Law (was Re: Percolate)

[Chris McCormick]

On Thu, Mar 08, 2007 at 03:05:53PM +0100, Yves Degoyon wrote:
> >It would be good to find out what the legal status of code
> >that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the
> >not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering
> >it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo
> >land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public
> >domain c) something else weird.
> >
> in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal'
> when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american )
> and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks.

Yep, I understand and completely sympathise with this viewpoint. In my
country (not the USA) there are some really really stupid and petty
laws, and I know that some people have to break them on a weekly or
daily basis just to live normally.

Just the other day the police department started a new television campaign
called "Eyes on the street" who's logo is a giant pixellated eye. The
advert says that there are people all around us, watching all the time
to see if anything is wrong. They also have advertisements that have a
cop pointing his finger at the camera saying "Watch out. If you do
something wrong we will get you." At my university I saw one of these
cars with a giant pixellated eye on the side, and I couldn't help
laughing out loud.

I don't even know where to start protesting this; I can't even make
a joke about it because it's so self parodying and ridiculous. Seems
like everyone just writes a complaint in their blog instead of actually
doing something.

Oh well. Time to move to Europe or Asia I guess.

Best,

Chris.

---
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://mccormick.cx

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Claude Heiland-Allen]

Sciss wrote:
> by the way, how do i filter out the key from the right outlet of  
> [gemkeyname]? like if i want to filter out "x", i try [gemkeyname] ->  
> [route symbol] -> [route x] but it never gets through, although if i  
> connect a [print], it says "print: symbol x" if i press the  
> corresponding key is there a name to get the ascii code so i can  
> wait for the escape-key?

  |
[select x]
  |  |
  | all other messages
  |
bang if "symbol x"


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] problems with installing pd extended test5(after running extented test7 )

[Marco Döttlinger]

i worked with extented test 5 without any problems for some time but after i 
have tried extented test 7 i was not able to run pd ext. test 5 ( i´m working 
on the latest mac book with intel core duo)

md
-- 
"Feel free" - 5 GB Mailbox, 50 FreeSMS/Monat ...
Jetzt GMX ProMail testen: www.gmx.net/de/go/mailfooter/promail-out

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Sciss]

by the way, how do i filter out the key from the right outlet of  
[gemkeyname]? like if i want to filter out "x", i try [gemkeyname] ->  
[route symbol] -> [route x] but it never gets through, although if i  
connect a [print], it says "print: symbol x" if i press the  
corresponding key is there a name to get the ascii code so i can  
wait for the escape-key?

thanks, -sciss-


Am 08.03.2007 um 23:40 schrieb Max Neupert:

> Am 08.03.2007 um 23:17 schrieb chris clepper:
>> On 3/8/07, Max Neupert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: try  
>> [menubar 0(
>> to gemwin
>>
>> and use exposé or something to exit the fullscreen..
>>
>> cmd+tab works pretty well.
>
> ah. really?? here it doesn't. neither apple-tab, apple-., esc or  
> any other thing. there is no way out than exposé or you include a  
> [gemkeyname] -> [0, destroy( construct in the patch here.
>
>
> GEM: ver: 0.91-cvs
> GEM: compiled: Jan  5 2007
>
> mac os x 10.4.8
>>
>>
>


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Thomas Grill]

Am 09.03.2007 um 00:03 schrieb Tim Blechmann:

> On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:37 +0100, Thomas Grill wrote:
>>> Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the
>>> GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not
>>> violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes
>>> sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt
>>> violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that  
>>> catches
>>> just that?
>>>
>> To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if
>> they were shipped closed-source with Max.
>> If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see  
>> why this
>> should be a problem.
>
> although i don't really like this clause, the following description is
> quite clear:
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF

I knew about this one, but i don't think that this is applicable if  
there is no actual distribution of the non-GPLd program with GPLd  
plugins.
I might be wrong, though. Anyway, i don't care much - if the GPL is  
odd enough to violate against such usage i would consider a different  
license. Idealism gone.

greetings,
Thomas

--
Thomas Grill
http://g.org



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Sciss]

thanks chris + max!

would be useful to add this info to the gemwin help file.

by the way i just had to hard-kill the computer because neither cmd 
+tab nor expose worked to get back from fullscreen (i have mouse- 
expose disabled and pressing the f-keys doesn't seem to work) ;-)

off topic, gem help files don't show up for some objects because  
"Darwin" is added to the name. like i have [pix_film] and ctrl+click  
and select "help", i get "sorry, couldn't find help patch for "Gem/ 
pix_filmDarwin.pd", and a few other objects. i can get them from the  
help browser though.

ciao, -sciss-

Am 08.03.2007 um 23:03 schrieb chris clepper:

> menubar 0/1/-1
>
> On 3/8/07, Sciss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: hi,
>
> i have the following problem : i'm running an installation with video
> projection from a mac mini. i can't get the menu bar disappear with
> GEM window in fullscreen mode. the mac mini doesn't have a second
> graphics card output so i have to use the main screen which normally
> has the mac os menubar. i can hide the dock and using [cursor 0( i
> can hide the mouse cursor, but even with [fullscreen 0(, the menu bar
> doesn't go away.
>
> thanks for help! ciao, -sciss-
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
> listinfo/pd-list
>


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Tim Blechmann]

On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 23:37 +0100, Thomas Grill wrote:
> > Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the  
> > GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not  
> > violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes  
> > sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt  
> > violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that catches  
> > just that?
> >   
> To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if 
> they were shipped closed-source with Max.
> If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see why this 
> should be a problem.

although i don't really like this clause, the following description is
quite clear:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#GPLPluginsInNF

tim

--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]ICQ: 96771783
http://tim.klingt.org

There's no such entity as "most people". These are generalities. All
generalities are meaningless. You've got to pin it down to a specific
person doing a specific thing at a specific time and space.
  William S. Burroughs


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Max Neupert]

hi chris,

actually i was quite happy about the fact that it is not quitable.  
like this you can do exhibitons of keyboard controlled interactive  
works and be sure that nobody exits it...


max

Am 08.03.2007 um 23:51 schrieb chris clepper:


On 3/8/07, Max Neupert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> cmd+tab works pretty well.

ah. really?? here it doesn't. neither apple-tab, apple-., esc or any
other thing. there is no way out than exposé or you include a
[gemkeyname] -> [0, destroy( construct in the patch here.

Pd needs to have a resource file added to it for the keyboard to  
work properly.  That is in the CVS build process right??





___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[chris clepper]

On 3/8/07, Max Neupert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



>
> cmd+tab works pretty well.

ah. really?? here it doesn't. neither apple-tab, apple-., esc or any
other thing. there is no way out than exposé or you include a
[gemkeyname] -> [0, destroy( construct in the patch here.



Pd needs to have a resource file added to it for the keyboard to work
properly.  That is in the CVS build process right??
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Max Neupert]

Am 08.03.2007 um 23:17 schrieb chris clepper:
> On 3/8/07, Max Neupert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: try  
> [menubar 0(
> to gemwin
>
> and use exposé or something to exit the fullscreen..
>
> cmd+tab works pretty well.

ah. really?? here it doesn't. neither apple-tab, apple-., esc or any  
other thing. there is no way out than exposé or you include a  
[gemkeyname] -> [0, destroy( construct in the patch here.


GEM: ver: 0.91-cvs
GEM: compiled: Jan  5 2007

mac os x 10.4.8
>
>


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Thomas Grill]

> Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the  
> GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not  
> violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes  
> sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt  
> violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that catches  
> just that?
>   
To my mind, flext-based Max externals would only violate the GPL, if 
they were shipped closed-source with Max.
If the are GPL'd as well and installed by the user, i don't see why this 
should be a problem.

greetings,
Thomas

-- 
Thomas Grill
http://g.org



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[chris clepper]

On 3/8/07, Max Neupert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


try [menubar 0(
to gemwin

and use exposé or something to exit the fullscreen..



cmd+tab works pretty well.
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Max Neupert]

try [menubar 0(
to gemwin

and use exposé or something to exit the fullscreen..


Am 08.03.2007 um 22:20 schrieb Sciss:

> hi,
>
> i have the following problem : i'm running an installation with video
> projection from a mac mini. i can't get the menu bar disappear with
> GEM window in fullscreen mode. the mac mini doesn't have a second
> graphics card output so i have to use the main screen which normally
> has the mac os menubar. i can hide the dock and using [cursor 0( i
> can hide the mouse cursor, but even with [fullscreen 0(, the menu bar
> doesn't go away.
>
> thanks for help! ciao, -sciss-
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
> listinfo/pd-list


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[chris clepper]

menubar 0/1/-1

On 3/8/07, Sciss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


hi,

i have the following problem : i'm running an installation with video
projection from a mac mini. i can't get the menu bar disappear with
GEM window in fullscreen mode. the mac mini doesn't have a second
graphics card output so i have to use the main screen which normally
has the mac os menubar. i can hide the dock and using [cursor 0( i
can hide the mouse cursor, but even with [fullscreen 0(, the menu bar
doesn't go away.

thanks for help! ciao, -sciss-


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] GEM fullscreen on OS X primary screen

[Sciss]

hi,

i have the following problem : i'm running an installation with video  
projection from a mac mini. i can't get the menu bar disappear with  
GEM window in fullscreen mode. the mac mini doesn't have a second  
graphics card output so i have to use the main screen which normally  
has the mac os menubar. i can hide the dock and using [cursor 0( i  
can hide the mouse cursor, but even with [fullscreen 0(, the menu bar  
doesn't go away.

thanks for help! ciao, -sciss-


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Memento global and local saving?

[Luke Iannini (pd)]

Hallo Frank,
I am working on fixing this up thanks to Thomas's explanations...
Is there any reason you used the xml format for local saving?  I was
going to put it back on regular pool datafiles to be consistent with
"main" memento.

I believe I have things going the way they should!  But I'd like to do
a little more testing and make a nice (miniature) GUI for inclusion in
local patches.

Luke

On 3/4/07, Thomas Grill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Frank,
> thanks for the implicit bug report.
> I think that svxdir/ldxdir also work for you, but there's a small badly
> documented thing:
> If absdir=1, absolute folder paths are written into the XML files, which
> make it impossible to correctly re-import the files with ldxdir, which
> only loads the first level. ldxrec would load more levels.
> On the other hand, with absdir=0 svxdir stores relative folders.
>
> Please find the attached example which should clarify things.
>
> best greetings,
> Thomas
>
>
> > Acutally that is what the "svxdir/ldxdir file.xml" methods of
> > [originator] were supposed to handle. The approach was to have it work
> > like in attached example patches. For debugging purposes the commands
> > sent to the internal [pool] are still printed into the console.
> > However it doesn't work. :( Probably I'm misunderstanding how the
> > pool-methods svxdir/ldxdir are supposed to work. According to the
> > pool-help.pd they should save and load the contents of the current
> > directory. However what they actually do save and load is a full tree,
> > including the toplevel name. Until pool gets a method (or until I find
> > the existing method of pool) that really only saves the content of a
> > directory and nothing else I'm afraid there's no way to easily save
> > and load local states. (You could of course build your own
> > local-saver...)
> >
> > Ciao
> >
>
> --
> Thomas Grill
> http://g.org
>
>
>
> #N canvas 531 166 841 775 12;
> #X obj 140 663 print K;
> #X obj 91 692 print V;
> #X obj 189 637 print D;
> #X text 262 637 directory (abs or rel to current);
> #X text 166 693 data value;
> #X text 212 663 data key;
> #X obj 162 482 r \$0-pool;
> #X obj 288 585 print A;
> #X text 360 584 attributes;
> #X obj 242 611 print C;
> #X text 314 611 command;
> #X obj 196 584 route bang;
> #X obj 401 698 print ;
> #X text 405 678 separator on bang;
> #X msg 191 208 mkchdir \$1-dir;
> #X obj 164 404 s \$0-pool;
> #X obj 140 215 until;
> #X obj 140 242 random 1000;
> #X msg 140 277 set \$1 \$1;
> #X msg 60 72 reset;
> #X msg 474 413 printroot;
> #X msg 155 72 1 \, 2 \, 3 \, 4 \, 5;
> #X obj 162 510 pool;
> #X msg 476 154 absdir 0 \, chdir 3-dir \, svxdir test.xml;
> #X obj 155 128 t b f;
> #X text 59 46 1)clear;
> #X text 165 49 2)populate;
> #X msg 140 188 5;
> #X text 479 50 3)save;
> #X text 479 80 write absolute paths into file;
> #X text 477 134 write relative paths into file;
> #X text 474 234 only load one level of the XML file;
> #X text 475 296 load all levels of the XML file;
> #X msg 478 101 absdir 1 \, chdir 3-dir \, svxdir test.xml;
> #X msg 474 257 reset \, ldxdir test.xml;
> #X msg 473 315 reset \, ldxrec test.xml;
> #X text 477 213 4)load;
> #X text 475 392 5)print;
> #X connect 6 0 22 0;
> #X connect 11 0 12 0;
> #X connect 11 1 9 0;
> #X connect 14 0 15 0;
> #X connect 16 0 17 0;
> #X connect 17 0 18 0;
> #X connect 18 0 15 0;
> #X connect 19 0 15 0;
> #X connect 20 0 15 0;
> #X connect 21 0 24 0;
> #X connect 22 0 1 0;
> #X connect 22 1 0 0;
> #X connect 22 2 2 0;
> #X connect 22 3 11 0;
> #X connect 22 4 7 0;
> #X connect 23 0 15 0;
> #X connect 24 0 27 0;
> #X connect 24 1 14 0;
> #X connect 27 0 16 0;
> #X connect 33 0 15 0;
> #X connect 34 0 15 0;
> #X connect 35 0 15 0;
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Steffen]

On 07/03/2007, at 15.42, Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Hallo,
> Ivica Ico Bukvic hat gesagt: // Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
>
>>> That's not the problem. The problem is, that the current Percolate
>>> license is not a free software license. Non-free licenses are
>>> incompatible with the GPL, which flext uses. By distributing a  
>>> version
>>> of Percolate externals using their current license built with
>>> GPL-flext you would be violating the GPL! So you are not allowed to
>>> distribute your flext-Percolate ATM.
>>
>> Please pardon my ignorance, but will this be the case even if I  
>> distribute
>> the ported code as source-only (assuming that I get a permission  
>> to do so
>> from the original authors)?
>
> I'm not a lawyer, but as I understand it, source or binary doesn't
> matter: As long as you distribute a flext-external, source or binary,
> you have to distribute it as GPL. This is impossible without violating
> either the Percolate license or the GPL, because both are
> incompatible: the Percolate license isn't a free license.

Regarding Flext in general and this: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl- 
faq.html#MereAggregation

Is Flext based externals, which need be GPL externals, violating the  
GPL when used as Max/MSP externals? If so, and if the GPL is not  
violated when using the Flext based externals with Pd, then it makes  
sense in my head to distinguish between binary and source wrt  
violation against the GPL. But Flext might have a clause that catches  
just that?


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] PD-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 41

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Jukka Boehm hat gesagt: // Jukka Boehm wrote:

> Thank you, I got the point, that help-files
> in the context-menu of an object are not
> necessariely linked to the correspondig
> "doc.Resource". Yes,- I?am  using the
> counter described in "cyclone". In "test4"
> the counter was working like in the "markex"
> -help-file shown.
> "/Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7.app/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ 
> cyclone/counter.pd"
> "/Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7.app/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ 
> markex/counter-help.pd"

You *may* be able to use a specific counter by giving it a path like
[markex/counter] or [cyclone/counter]. But I didn't test this and it
may still be that one overwrites the other. 

As there are several incompatible [counter] externals, I really would
recommend to avoid them all and replace them with a custom one built
with internal objects. Attached counting tutorial may give you a
start. Then you could just build a counter you like, give it a
personal name like jukka-counter.pd and replace all counters you use
with that one, for example using an object replacement script as
describe in the "tips and tricks" page on puredata.info

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__


counting.pd
Description: application/puredata
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] sfplay / playing with soundfile from disk

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

moritz wrote:
> 
> any other suggestions than sfplay and goto?

you can specify both a header (in bytes, really!) and a frame-onset (in
samples) when opening soundfiles with pd's built-in [readsf~].

mfg.asd
IOhannes

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] sfplay / playing with soundfile from disk

[moritz]

eo list

im sure this question was asked before, im not a good archive-hunter..

i want to play soundfiles directly from the harddisk, but also sometimes 
from the middle/anywhere from the soundfile.
i found the sfplay from zexy with the message [goto x( , but how precise 
is that? it tells me i can play from a byte n, but i'm always confuse 
what means bytes related to samples with a samplingrate 44100?

ok, i want to can play soundfiles precise started from any chosen sample..

any other suggestions than sfplay and goto?

is reading sounds from a harddisk more click-free than loading into a table?


thanx

morritz


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] gem - cube without edges

[Nikola Jeremic]

Hi list

im curently working on a project to design a short logo animation with
pd/gem.
I have a rotating cube on witch is a texture (logo) with black background.
the problem is that i can still see the "edges" of a cube and i would like
to
remove them. the patch is here if you would like to see it.

www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic/tmp/echoplex-logo.zip


Some hints?

thanx
Nikola Jeremic


--
www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] PD-list Digest, Vol 24, Issue 41

[Jukka Boehm]

Thank you, I got the point, that help-files
in the context-menu of an object are not
necessariely linked to the correspondig
"doc.Resource". Yes,- I´am  using the
counter described in "cyclone". In "test4"
the counter was working like in the "markex"
-help-file shown.
"/Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7.app/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ 
cyclone/counter.pd"
"/Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7.app/Contents/Resources/doc/5.reference/ 
markex/counter-help.pd"

Ciao
--
Jukka
Am 8.3.07 um 16:20 schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

>
>> in Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7 msg 'reset' and 'clear' doesn?t work as
>> before.
>> error: counter: no method for 'reset'
>> ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
>> error: counter: no method for 'clear'
>>
>> is there a new help-file available?
>
> Which [counter] are you using? There are many [counter] objects and
> they are incompatible, so many in fact, that I would advise against
> using any of these at all!
>
> Better use [f ]x[+ 1] or [f ]x[+ 1]x[mod 16] if you know what I mean.


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] PD Workshop files

[padawan12]

If someone took the trouble to write a robots.txt do please observe it.
A website with limited bandwidth can take a big hit from too many full spiders.
In resonance with another active thread, I still take it as an old fashioned
duty of "hacker ethic" that we have to lead by example in an age where the law
and business are no longer a reliable guide. 

I'm happy to spend time with any beginner off-list to demonstrate CVS or wget,
seriously just drop me a line and we'll go through it, but it's just a little
off-topic to be filling the list traffic with, and IOhans and Frank have already
given the essentials. Please read those FAQs again guys.




On Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:36:35 +0100
Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hallo,
> Pete Redest hat gesagt: // Pete Redest wrote:
> 
> > Anyways, for the benefit of Jared and of others interested in downloading
> > the examples/tutorial/workshop from CVS, I am attaching a script,
> > which surely can be adjusted/improved in several ways. The script
> > is just what worked for me.
> 
> Please never use this script!!! 
> 
> It's bad practice, not polite at all and in some circles even
> considered extremely rude to ignore the instructions in "robots.txt"!
> 
> And it's not necessary at all: Instead of abusing wget as a CVS-tool,
> one should just get comfortable with a real CVS-utility. 
> 
> Ciao
> -- 
>  Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__
> 
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[marius schebella]

I wanted to say it is sad, that law does never cover all possibilities, 
and sometimes even protects illegal behavior.
marius.

Thomas Grill wrote:
> I think this is what is called "selective perception". Nobody said that 
> it's generally illegal, like nothing is.
> all the best, Thomas
> 
> marius schebella schrieb:
>> sad, but you're absolutely right.
>> marius.
>>
>> Yves Degoyon wrote:
>>  
>>> ola,
>>>
>>>
 It would be good to find out what the legal status of code
 that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the
 not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering
 it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal 
 limbo
 land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public
 domain c) something else weird.

  

   
>>> in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal'
>>> when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american )
>>> and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks.
>>>
>>> saludos,
>>> sevy
>>>
>>> ___
>>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>
>>> 
>>
>>
>> ___
>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>>   
> 


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Thomas Grill]

I think this is what is called "selective perception". Nobody said that 
it's generally illegal, like nothing is.
all the best, Thomas

marius schebella schrieb:
> sad, but you're absolutely right.
> marius.
>
> Yves Degoyon wrote:
>   
>> ola,
>>
>> 
>>> It would be good to find out what the legal status of code
>>> that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the
>>> not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering
>>> it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo
>>> land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public
>>> domain c) something else weird.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>   
>> in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal'
>> when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american )
>> and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks.
>>
>> saludos,
>> sevy
>>
>> ___
>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
>> 
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>   

-- 
Thomas Grill
http://g.org



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[marius schebella]

sad, but you're absolutely right.
marius.

Yves Degoyon wrote:
> ola,
> 
>> It would be good to find out what the legal status of code
>> that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the
>> not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering
>> it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo
>> land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public
>> domain c) something else weird.
>>
>>  
>>
> in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal'
> when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american )
> and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks.
> 
> saludos,
> sevy
> 
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> 


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Superdiscounter update [was: Re: Superdiscounter]

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Frank Barknecht hat gesagt: // Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Known bug: Importing a new list or quickly editing the pattern
> graphically may distrub the total length of the pattern as can be
> checked in the lower right timer. I would be grateful for an idea how
> to fix that. I probably need to keep track of the length of the delay
> currently scheduled and compare it to the new delay length created by
> the edit operation and then adapt both to keep the total length but
> this is a tricky problem ... Any takers?

Ah, sometimes the difficult things in life are the most easiest ones.
This not only was possible to fix, in fact now the whole player-part
is much simpler to understand. Anyways, attached is the practically
final version of [superdiscounter] for now and I'm on to work on
[superstep] which is yet [t b a].

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__


superdiscount-0.3.tgz
Description: GNU Unix tar archive
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[Yves Degoyon]

ola,

>It would be good to find out what the legal status of code
>that is illegally licensed. We've had this issue before with the
>not-for-military-use clause that Yves added to his software, rendering
>it technically illegal. A lawyer could tell us if it's a) in legal limbo
>land where nobody is legally allowed to use it b) defaults to public
>domain c) something else weird.
>
>  
>
in fact, i'm glad of considering my software 'illegal'
when you see what the 'law' ( mainly american )
and the OMC are able to achieve with tricks.

saludos,
sevy

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] puredatabase

[robbert van hulzen]

No, I didn't forget... But the discussion (eg Pluggo4PD) is getting to a
point where I think "wow, interesting!" rather than "I can help here."

Here's a few thoughts anyway. More to show what goes on in the mind of
someone who's just getting into the construction of the telescope after a
bit of star gazing.

All this (incl below) said, I'd still love to help out in some way, by eg
cleaning up / clarifying help patches, eg with some help from the developer.


When first starting to use pd, I attempted to make a manual for myself,
starting out with listing all the objects (internals, then) with
descriptions. When getting deeper into pd, I abandoned that idea because I
preferred to spend my time on learning by doing. Still, a readable list of
what-does-what would be welcome, and would have been then.

As a sidenote: a glossary of computer related terms would also have been
helpful. By now i know what a subroutine is, but a year ago the first
sentence of the template1-about.pd (at
http://puredata.org/dev/pddp/template1-about.pd/view) would've already
puzzled me, just like the term "metadata" does now. I can guess what it
means, I can find some info, there's a wiki, but I think when you just get
into pd there's a lot to deal with, so you don't necessarily want to get
into even more. Mind you: I'm not saying everybody should be able to use pd
with no effort. Of course this is an app you must want to use and be willing
to dive into, I just mean that sometimes knowledge is taken for granted that
not necessarily everyone jumping into pd has.
Maybe this is not pd's responsability, I'm just mentioning what was / is
troublesome for me.

padawan12 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:


> 
> Yes. At the risk of building a whole content management system (is
> puredatabase still built on Zope/Plone?) this seems the sensible format.
> At some point I would like to move some tutorials I've made onto the system.
> These are mainly HTML with diagrams and links to patches and sounds. A really
> thorough system would allow this and make it easy.
> 
> But, from a development POV might I suggest that this is ambitious and one
> would be best to concentrate on just getting it to work right with .pd files
> to begin with, then add the bells and whistles to allow richer content. But
> being mindful of future content types cant hurt.
> 
> One interesting and challenging enough problem that already exists is how to
> make sure that help/tutorial/exmaple patches that depend on certain
> abstractions and externals will always load.
> 
> This is a dependency issue not dissimilar to the pakage management needed
> in something like the Debian apt repository system. It may be possible
> to tag each resource with its minimum version and libraries needed, or it
> might be better to hold multiple verions of the same resource and be able
> to browse by platform and current Pd version.
> 
> The way I see it, Puredatabase is not just there to organise and structure
> documentation, it is there to make maintainance as easy as possible. We have
> an ongoing struggle to keep helpfiles up to date. One of the views, for
> maintainers, should reflect those needs. It should be easy enough to use
> so that anyone who spots an error or omission can quickly log in and make
> changes Wiki style.
> 
> Hope I'm not just prattling on about issues you've already considered.
> 



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] machine-o-matic (was: kit model)

[robbert van hulzen]

and yet another great one...! this is fun, i can sit here for hours and
annoy my fellow berliner coffeedrinkers with leakage from my headphones ...


padawan12 wrote:

> And there's a few new sound effects generators here too
> http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/html/news/news.html
> The machine-o-matic (with deluxe quadruple action) is a
> good laugh if you like making weird machine sounds.



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] pd ext -> 0.40

[robbert van hulzen]

hello berliner listers,
is there anyone here that would like to help me set up pd 0.40 with
externals, i'm cvs challenged and generally kind of lost as to where to
start. reading lots of documentation but it kind of feels like i'm walking
around the mountain not knowing where to start climbing.
cheers, robbert



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] generative patches on mobile phones?

[Erich Berger]

no pd port i would know of but
there is something called

mobile-processing on

http://mobile.processing.org

best

erich


-
http://randomseed.org

On Thu, 8 Mar 2007, yukio kuroiwa wrote:

> hi, sorry for this stupid question... is a way of making generative pd
> patches for mobile phones?
> or is there any other alternative of creating generative music for
> mobile phones that support java?
>
>
> any idea?
>
> many thanx
>
> yukio
> -- 
>  yukio kuroiwa
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> -- 
> http://www.fastmail.fm - The professional email service
>
>
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] in Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7 msg 'reset' and 'clear' doesn?t work as before

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Jukka Boehm hat gesagt: // Jukka Boehm wrote:

> in Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7 msg 'reset' and 'clear' doesn?t work as  
> before.
> error: counter: no method for 'reset'
> ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
> error: counter: no method for 'clear'
> 
> is there a new help-file available?

Which [counter] are you using? There are many [counter] objects and
they are incompatible, so many in fact, that I would advise against
using any of these at all!

Better use [f ]x[+ 1] or [f ]x[+ 1]x[mod 16] if you know what I mean.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] generative patches on mobile phones?

[yukio kuroiwa]

hi, sorry for this stupid question... is a way of making generative pd
patches for mobile phones?
or is there any other alternative of creating generative music for
mobile phones that support java?


any idea?

many thanx

yukio
-- 
  yukio kuroiwa
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
http://www.fastmail.fm - The professional email service


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] [PD-announce] unDEAF: Call for participation

[Rui Guerra]

Dear friends,

Would you be so nice to forward unDEAF: Call for participation to  
whom it might interest.


Thanks a lot,
Rui
---
Call for participation

unDEAF:  Dutch Electronic Art unFestival

unDEAF is a satellite event of the Dutch Electronic Art Festival  
2007. unDEAF is uncurated. Your work will not be judged, or  
restricted by a theme, neither it has to be finalized. unDEAF is self- 
organized. You organize and promote your own event, whether an art  
piece, a performance, a talk, a workshop, a meal, a song, a party or  
other as-yet-undefined events.


How to participate in 3 steps:

1. Announce your event at the website (http://undeaf.v2.nl/ 
WhoIsDoingWhat).

2. Subscribe to the mailinglist and stay tuned to the latest news.
3. Show up in person or avatar from 10th to 15th of April.

For those brave-hearts that would like to help organizing unDEAF, we  
might have simple accommodation for free.


From Tuesday 10th to Sunday 15th of April
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Free participation
http://undeaf.v2.nl___
PD-announce mailing list
PD-announce@iem.at
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

[PD] in Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7 msg 'reset ' and 'clear' doesn´t work as before

[Jukka Boehm]

Hello
in Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7 msg 'reset' and 'clear' doesn´t work as  
before.

error: counter: no method for 'reset'
... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
error: counter: no method for 'clear'

is there a new help-file available?

Best Jukka

P.S.:Pd-0.39.2-extended-test7-macosx104-i386.dmg



___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] hot do you get a comma into a symbol?

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Rich E wrote:
> I messed around with iem's amixer and hdspm_mixer ( had to change it a
> little to allow the hdsp) a while back, but there is alot more

the hdspm_mixer was written with the hdsp-madi card in mind, and not
with normal hdsp cards, so it is likely that it did not work out of the box.

however, it would be great if you could share your code so it can be
included in the hdspm_mixer code and everybody can profit from it.


additionally i'd like to know which functionality is missing in the
amixer object, as i would like to improve it to make it more usable.
probably file a feature request at sourceforge.net (because else, i will
probably forget about it...)

> functionality in the terminal versions, so it is nice to be able to
> write scripts for them within pd.

yes of course; and the world does not end at amixer and it is likely
that the problem with commas will re-appear at another application where
there happens to be no external available.


> As for the HDSP, I'm about to throw mine against a wall.  After months
> of fiddling, I can get 4 channels of 88.2k audio in and out ( but not 8
> channels of 44.1k... which boggles me.  I get constant dropouts with the
> ALSA driver), but even that is at a 30ms latency cost.   Frank, what

weird, here i do not remember having much problems with these cards.


mfng.asdr
IOhannes

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pduino 0.3 release

[Roman Haefeli]

hello hans

cool! i will test it as soon as i will get my arduino in my fingers
again.

and:

many thanks or all that work you invested in this project!

cheers
roman

On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 01:04 -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> http://at.or.at/hans/pd/objects.html
> 
> You can read all about the protocol design here:
> 
> http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Interfacing/Sensorbox
> 
> Here are some key changes:
> - new MIDI-based protocol
> - rebuilt from scratch, cleaner and smaller code
> - timer-based loop to poll analogIns and serial
> - the firmware will report its version, and blink the version at boot
> - reduced serial speed to 57600 to work around glitches
> - Makefile to build from command line
> 
> Hopefully this works better, test it out and let me know.
> 
> .hc
> 
> 
> 
> Looking at things from a more basic level, you can come up with a  
> more direct solution... It may sound small in theory, but it in  
> practice, it can change entire economies. - Amy Smith
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> PD-announce mailing list
> PD-announce@iem.at
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce
> 
> ___
> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list



___ 
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] kit model

[hard off]

the motor one is really cool. especially with the different presets.
..changing the preset button rapidly is the coolest 'musical' effect i
reckon.


i think the toggles should trigger a line object to gradually stop the
motors spinning.  because motors never just stop suddenly.

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] Percolate

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Chris McCormick wrote:
> 
> What does it mean if they violate the GPL and do so anyway? What does it
> mean for people who use the software?

the problem is, that asking this questions is not as simple (i think,
being no lawyer myself).

it is rather:
what does it mean to ... in the US? what does it meant to ... in
austria? what does it meant to ... in germany? and so forth.

(there probably (but who knows...) will be little differences between
the austrian and german legal state, but i am pretty sure that there
will be major differences between the anglo-american and the european
way. (and other ways too, but about these i know even less)

> It's confusing, which is why a real lawyer is needed to answer these
> questions.

this is why it would require a host of lawyers.
and that is the fun part of all this.

things are certainly better in CreativeCommons (among other things
because they are less u.s.-centric than the FSF).


mfgasd.r
IOhannes

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] rfcomm and comport device list

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

gordo wrote:
> hi all,
> 
> 
> btw. stupid newbie question: how can i access /dev/tty without starting
> pd as root?

use the permission system to aquire permissions ;-)

this is: make sure that there is a group that can access the device
(either read/writeable or just readable)
make sure that your user belongs to this group.


like:
% chgrp  /dev/rfcomm1
% chmod g+rw /dev/tty
% adduser  

(you will have to do this as root; and you will have to re-login as user
, in order to make the new group membership have an effect)


the less sophisticated way is to give everybody the needed rights to
access the device. but i don't recommend this (for security reasons)

mfga.sdr
IOhannes

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] dynamic gui object creation / setting size

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

hi tutti

Gernot Tutner wrote:
> thx for this fast response, but...
>> see http://puredata.info/docs/developer/fileformat
> i know that.

good.

>> if you are unsure, it is always a good idea to just save the gui object
>> with the properties you want to a file and copy (and adjust) the
arguments.
> i also know and tried that :-)

good too.

now you should know everything there is to know about that ;-)


> 
>> i don't think that you can just skip the parameters that you are not
>> interested in, you really have to specify all of them
>>
>> like: "obj 50 100 tgl 5 0 none none none 0 0 0 0 0 1
>> 2 0 0"
> 
> doesn't help. i was just to lazy to make an example-patch with all the 
> parameters in the message-box.

then i don't understand your problem.
it would be good if you could tell us what you want to acchieve exactly,
and how pd fails to do so.


> 
> actually if i send an message like "obj x y tgl" to my canvas i get a 
> toggle with default parameter-values.
> 

yes true.
however, this does not mean, that specifying one parameter will give you
an object with all parameters set to default values but the first parameter.


mfg.adsr
IOhannes

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] PD Workshop files

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

hi

Pete Redest wrote:

> but given that IOhannes suggests, then who am I to object it ...

sorry if this is the impression i give.

apart from that, i never suggested using wget, instead i suggested using
CVS.

however, somebody has previously suggested to jared to use wget, and he
continued asking about _that_ way to get the files.
so i answered the requests, in whatever manner.

(note, that the original question was bout downloading a directory
structure NOT in CVS; it was only later that the same approach was used
to get the CVS files exposed at the webinterface via wget)

> 
> All that said, hope that the script is of help to Jared and
> others.

i jared was on linux, that might have helped.
to my knowledge, these have been questions from an xp user.


mfgasd.r
IOhannes

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] PD Workshop files

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Pete Redest hat gesagt: // Pete Redest wrote:

> Anyways, for the benefit of Jared and of others interested in downloading
> the examples/tutorial/workshop from CVS, I am attaching a script,
> which surely can be adjusted/improved in several ways. The script
> is just what worked for me.

Please never use this script!!! 

It's bad practice, not polite at all and in some circles even
considered extremely rude to ignore the instructions in "robots.txt"!

And it's not necessary at all: Instead of abusing wget as a CVS-tool,
one should just get comfortable with a real CVS-utility. 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] hot do you get a comma into a symbol?

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Rich E hat gesagt: // Rich E wrote:

> Frank, what card did you end up using?  I'd love to hear about a
> linux laptop card that can handle multichannel setups (hopefully 6
> or 8) and still run smoothly.. but I won't get my hopes up.

I don't need that many channels, so I'm using a Terratec Phase26 USB
with 2 in/6 out.

For your needs you may want to explore Freebob-supported firewire
cards.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

Re: [PD] hotkey scrolling within patches?

[Rich E]

So I came across Alexandre Quessy' [x11mouse] external this evening.  It
will simulate mouseclicks and motion with key scripts... but not scrolling.
I took a quick look at the x11 manual and I couldn't find any info on
manipulating the scroll feature of the mouse/trackpad.

Does anyone know what controls scrolling in x11?  It would be nice to just
be able to simulate the scrollpad, effectively moving the canvas interior.

Regards,
Rich

On 2/14/07, Roman Haefeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


On Tue, 2007-02-13 at 23:11 -0500, carmen wrote:

> scrolling inside PD is handled by Tk, not your window-manager. have you
tried holding down shift while scrolling? that might do vertical

do you mean horizontal? anyway, great! many thanks for that hint!

roman



___
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de


___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

___
PD-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list