Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chris McCormick wrote:

implying that the phrase "Mongolian hordes" represents a historically 
valid viewpoint is perpetuating a western-biased (racist) falsehood.


"horde" is not a viewpoint. It's a noun. It means "political subdivision 
of a (central asian) nomadic people". It comes for Turkic "orda" meaning a 
Khan's residence.


The mere fact that everyone knows what we're talking about when we say 
"mongolian hordes"


If you use political correctness to get a word loaded with connotations to 
be replaced by a brand new word, the old connotations tend to be carried 
over to the new word. Thus those are not so much properties of a specific 
word, than a topic of public opinion. This is something that is best fixed 
by education and not by "dictionary engineering".


whilst there is no similar widespread cliche for western invaders in our 
culture is testament to this fact.


I believe that "colonialism" and "imperialism" are widespread words, 
concepts and clichés, that are loaded by several centuries of history.



A little. The conflict is similar to that in Australia. There are many
sides and they usually concern the ownership of traditional lands:


You could add:

 * passive-aggressive government wants to make programme initiated by
   previous government look bad

 * fear that it legitimises (or opens a can of worms on) some completely
   unreasonable claims, such as ownership of areas that are no longer
   usable for traditional purposes and that may have already been
   compensated for in a previous treaty, ...

that's what I can think about. I'm not taking any side, because I don't 
know about the issues, I only listed some forces that I would guess tend 
to have a lot of influence on policy.


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Chris McCormick]

On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 12:51:14AM -0400, vade wrote:
> Because the Mongolians did it so much better as to be noteworthy?

It depends what you mean by 'better'. For example, the British Empire
covered more land than the Mongolian Empire ever did, and that's just
one arm of the European invasion of the rest of the world. The British
Empire also ruled over far more people; roughly one quater of the world's
entire population at the beginning of the 20th century.

If by 'better' you mean "more ruthless" then you need to read more
history. First hand accounts by the Spanish invaders into parts of
South America brag unashamedly about deceiving and slaughtering the
local peoples. Slave ships (I don't need to say any more on that one).
The way in which the Aboriginal people of Australia, Canada, and the USA
were treated by the first settlers in these places. The list is very
long. There is a lot more debate about how civil the ancient Mongolians
were than there is about how the later Europeans treated the people
they invaded, possibly because Europeans kept better written records,
whilst the records of Mongolian invasion were all kept by people who
were being invaded.

As with all history, it's very complicated, but my point is that we
only refer to the "Mongolian hordes" because we are biased towards a
pro-western way of thinking. That is most definately ignorant, and
probably racist.

Best,

Chris.

> And  
> dont forget the Vikings, we were pretty legendary. Then the damn  
> Christians tamed us.
> 
> But im also an American citizen (my mother is Scandinavian), so you  
> have my explicit permission to speak of the current American Hordes,  
> should you need to specify any group of people with a  
> "horde"/"Invasion"/"rape"/"torture" analogy, or if you are feeling a  
> bit reminiscent, to use viking rather than mongolian, you will at  
> least offend n-1 people on the PD list.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:40 PM, Chris McCormick wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 12:41:22PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> >>On Mon, 8 Oct 2007, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> >>
> >>>Of course, hacker slang can be sexist as well, even racist if you  
> >>>look
> >>>at the term " Mongolian Hordes technique" above.
> >>
> >>If only you had had those real Mongolian hordes rushing towards  
> >>you at the
> >>appropriate time in history, you would understand...
> >>
> >>There's a difference between being sensitive to racism and dismissing
> >>history.
> >
> >I wonder why we don't refer to the european hordes rushing into  
> >countless
> >continents, slaughtering and raping the local peoples for the last few
> >hundred years? There is a difference between dismissing history and
> >selective memory.
> >
> >Best,
> >
> >Chris.
> >
> >---
> >http://mccormick.cx
> >
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> www.vade.info
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Chris McCormick]

On Tue, Oct 09, 2007 at 11:26:59AM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Oct 2007, Chris McCormick wrote:
> >On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 12:41:22PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> >>There's a difference between being sensitive to racism and dismissing
> >>history.
> >I wonder why we don't refer to the european hordes rushing into countless
> >continents, slaughtering and raping the local peoples for the last few
> >hundred years? There is a difference between dismissing history and
> >selective memory.
> 
> Just because we don't mention it *here*, doesn't mean we don't know it or 
> want to forget it. We don't have quotas of representation of historical 
> facts on pd-list. If you want to balance the representation of historical 
> facts on pd-list, do your own share if you will, but pd-list has no such 
> duty.

Yeah of course, but Frank was not talking about the pd-list. He was
referring to a phrase in the Jargon File. I am not asking people on the
pd-list to be more sensitive or to enforce 'quotas of representation'.
It's a free world; people can say whatever they like and use whatever
phrases they like. What I am saying is that your statement that we
shouldn't "dismiss history", implying that the phrase "Mongolian hordes"
represents a historically valid viewpoint is perpetuating a western-biased
(racist) falsehood.

There is strong debate about whether the Mongolians were "uncivilised"
and how ruthless they were. To illustrate this point, consider that in
many cases recorded by the people being invaded they treated people much
better by comparison than European invaders, who recorded their invasions
themselves. To use the phrase "Mongolian hordes" is to reinforce a
factually incorrect racist cultural stereotype. It is to imply that
other people invading are "hordes" whilst when western people invade it's
"progress". The mere fact that everyone knows what we're talking about
when we say "mongolian hordes" whilst there is no similar widespread
cliche for western invaders in our culture is testament to this fact.

> Now, while you're back into that topic, can you point to me the reasons 
> why Canada refused to sign the last treaty about natives?

No, not really. I am sure you can find more information about it on the
net if you care to try. A search for 'UN indigenous rights' will yeild
many results.

The Canadian government has traditionally strongly supported this
UN action for indigenous people's rights, right up until the current
government came into power.

"Unfortunately, the provisions in the Declaration on lands, territories
and resources are overly broad, unclear, and capable of a wide variety
of interpretations, discounting the need to recognize a range of rights
over land and possibly putting into question matters that have been
settled by treaty,"
-- Canada's UN Ambassador John McNee

> You seemed to 
> assume that if Canada had not signed it, it had to be for the worst of 
> reasons,

Incorrect.

> but have you actually read about the reasons?

A little. The conflict is similar to that in Australia. There are many
sides and they usually concern the ownership of traditional lands:

* Indigenous people's groups generally would like their people to have
the right to use their traditional lands.

* Conservationists would like to use the issue to further their own
agenda of environmental protection.

* Resource industry corporations would like unfettered access to the
land in order to dig valuable things out of the ground and sell them on
the global market. Unfortunately the remaining stocks of underground
resources are often located under traditionally owned lands these days.

* Ordinary people are reasonably ignorant of the facts and easily swayed
by sensationalist media headlines about indigenous land re-acquisition.

* In some cases the government has negotiated treaties with indigenous
peoples and they don't want those treaties to be disturbed.

There are many sides to the argument but I think these are generally the
issues.

Best,

Chris.

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[PD] Funky dependency on Debian PPC

[Myo]

Hello everyone,

sorry that you have to hear from me again so soon, but I uncovered something
funky when trying to install extended (version's >= 0.39.3) on Debian PPC. I
get a dependency for 'libavifile', which, isn't available for PPC \= |  is
this a bug in the installer, or am I missing something? I get the same
result from the testing .deb's and the nightly auto builds.

should point out that extended 0.39.2-rc5 is installed and working fine for
some time now.

thanks
cory



p.s. I never did figure out the freebob thing. it seems to "work", but I ran
out of free time before I figured it out how to configure it.
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Andy Farnell]

I'm a bit torn on this. I actually like the concept, but you're right,
like all good things that make life easy they tend to erode discipline
and structure. The patch messy and sweep it all under the rug 
philosophy is probably very appealing to many.

On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:27:47 -0400
"Kevin McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses existing Pd
> > mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to modularize their
> > programs.
> >
> 
> 100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about this
> presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be planned into
> the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code cleaner, use
> subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and receives
> for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I wasn't really
> excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I misunderstand..
> 
> km
> 


-- 
Use the source

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[PD] click interface hack??

[Kevin McCoy]

Hi list,

Has anyone done a hack so instead of clicking and dragging patch cords
(which is kind of awkward still), you can click an outlet and then it starts
the patch cord and then move the mouse freehand to the destination, click an
inlet and it connects them that way?  To cancel the patch cord you can just
click on the blank canvas.

I am pretty sure I must not be the only one who has thought of this.. just
curious?

km
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Kevin McCoy]

> The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses existing Pd
> mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to modularize their
> programs.
>

100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about this
presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be planned into
the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code cleaner, use
subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and receives
for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I wasn't really
excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I misunderstand..

km
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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[tim]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:


On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:19 PM, tim wrote:


Hello,

Since didn't see any Nederlands verison yet, here's my attempt at one:


Cool, so you want to be the "sysop" of the Nederlands site?



I wouldn't mind. I don't have much experience with this though...
What exactly is expected of a "sysop" ?




# wikipedia terms
$stub = "beg"; // i asked this on #wikipedia-nl, and they told me 
{{beg}} (with the curly braces). 'beg' is an abbreviation for 'begin'


Beginnetje is also used:

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorie:Beginnetje



Ok Beginnetje it shall be then.

$template = "sjabloon";
$category = "categorie";
$infobox = "infobox";



# pdpedia terms
$objectclass = "objectklasse";

# page headers
$inlets = "ingangen";
$outlets = "uitgangen";
$arguments = "argumenten";
$messages = "berichten"; // could be 'boodschappen' too, but that 
sounds a bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.


# infobox
$name = "naam";
$description = "beschrijving"; // can also be 'omschrijving'
$abbreviation = "afkorting";
$library = "bibliotheek";
$author = "auteur";
$developer = "ontwikkelaar";
$releaseVersion = "versie";
just 'releasedate' ?
$dependencies = "vereisten"; // translated freely as 'requirements' 
here, maybe there's a better word but it doesnt spring to mind now

$license = "licentie";
$website = "website";

$releaseDate = "uitgebrachtOp"; // or 'gepubliceerdOp' ? or 
'vrijgegevenOp? or

$programmingLanguage = "programmeerTaal";
$operatingSystem = "besturingsSysteem";
$dataType = "dataType";


"camel case" isn't used in wikipedia (unless that's a Dutch spelling 
convention). In English, following wikipedia, these are:



I thought it was camel case in the original mail...

correction:

Release date : Uitgebracht op
Programming language : Programmeertaal (one word)
Operating system : Besturingssysteem (one word)
Data type : Data type

gr,
Tim


.hc



comments and suggestions from dutch speakers welcome !

Tim




 



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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

I understand that they are trying to separate the interface from the  
implementation.  The problem with that technique is there isn't a  
clear way to tell which item in presentation mode belongs to which  
item in edit mode.I can see having to click back and forth  
between presentation and edit modes to figure out which GUI element  
is attached where.  It'll only get worse with more complicated patches.


Max/Pd are graphical languages, so such things should be represented  
visually, whenever possible.  I don't see how the two different  
positions are represented, besides the little moving fade between the  
two modes.


I think the "hide patch coords" function also has similar issues, it  
basically reinforces bad habits.   The Pd graph-on-parent makes more  
sense IMHO because it uses existing Pd mechanisms for encapsulation  
and encourages patchers to modularize their programs.  GOP definitely  
needs work, but I think it's a better path.


On a positive note, the new file browser stuff looks really handy.   
The drag-n-drop message creation looks nifty, but I am not sure how  
useful it is.  Maybe yes, maybe no.


.hc

On Oct 9, 2007, at 3:15 PM, vade wrote:

Hans, thats the whole point of presentation mode, to separate the  
patching logic from the presentation!


you can organize your gui elements in the code in places that make  
sense and follow the logical flow of the patch, and then present  
them in the UI however you choose.


I am so glad they finally listened to Max users screaming for PD's  
keyboard shortcuts for instantiation of objects method. Will make  
patching much faster for us Max users.



On Oct 9, 2007, at 2:55 PM, altern wrote:


these links interesting as well.

An article by Zicarelly:
http://www.cycling74.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2007/9/28/105551/882

and videos showing the new max:
http://www.cycling74.com/story/2007/10/5/91222/9559


Hans-Christoph Steiner(e)k dio:


Hmm, looks nice, with lots of nifty features.  But I think a lot  
of them
would drive me nuts.  Like the fact that you can move the GUI  
elements

around in presentation mode separately from edit mode.

.hc

On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/08/first-max-5-preview- 
music-patching-the-next-generation/

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one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better  
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Re: [PD] representing classes and selectors in the wiki

[Enrique Erne]

>> Searching for "counter" works pretty well (unfortunately, "Go" is the  
>> default when you hit enter):
>
>i see. what does "Go" mean?


there are two submit buttons underneath the search input field. "Go" directly
displays the site with the highest ranking, like googles "i'm feeling lucky".
"Search" shows all search results as the following link:
http://wiki.puredata.info/en/Special:Search?search=counter&fulltext=Search

when hitting enter the first appearing submit button will be submitted. in order
to change "Go" and "Search" the two buttons should be switched in the html
structure. if somebody points me to the template i can change that. also the 
wiki
might provide an option to switch the default action.

eni

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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 8, 2007, at 2:19 PM, tim wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Since didn't see any Nederlands verison yet, here's my attempt at one:

Cool, so you want to be the "sysop" of the Nederlands site?


> # wikipedia terms
> $stub = "beg";// i asked this on #wikipedia-nl, and they told  
> me {{beg}} (with the curly braces). 'beg' is an abbreviation for  
> 'begin'

Beginnetje is also used:

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorie:Beginnetje


> $template = "sjabloon";
> $category = "categorie";
> $infobox = "infobox";

> # pdpedia terms
> $objectclass = "objectklasse";
>
> # page headers
> $inlets = "ingangen";
> $outlets = "uitgangen";
> $arguments = "argumenten";
> $messages = "berichten";   // could be 'boodschappen' too, but that  
> sounds a bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.
>
> # infobox
> $name = "naam";
> $description = "beschrijving";   // can also be 'omschrijving'
> $abbreviation = "afkorting";
> $library = "bibliotheek";
> $author = "auteur";
> $developer = "ontwikkelaar";
> $releaseVersion = "versie";
> just 'releasedate' ?
> $dependencies = "vereisten"; // translated freely as  
> 'requirements' here, maybe there's a better word but it doesnt  
> spring to mind now
> $license = "licentie";
> $website = "website";
>
> $releaseDate = "uitgebrachtOp";// or 'gepubliceerdOp' ? or  
> 'vrijgegevenOp? or
> $programmingLanguage = "programmeerTaal";
> $operatingSystem = "besturingsSysteem";
> $dataType = "dataType";

"camel case" isn't used in wikipedia (unless that's a Dutch spelling  
convention).  In English, following wikipedia, these are:

Release date
Programming language
Operating system
Data type

.hc

>
> comments and suggestions from dutch speakers welcome !
>
> Tim



 


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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[vade]

Hans, thats the whole point of presentation mode, to separate the  
patching logic from the presentation!


you can organize your gui elements in the code in places that make  
sense and follow the logical flow of the patch, and then present them  
in the UI however you choose.


I am so glad they finally listened to Max users screaming for PD's  
keyboard shortcuts for instantiation of objects method. Will make  
patching much faster for us Max users.



On Oct 9, 2007, at 2:55 PM, altern wrote:


these links interesting as well.

An article by Zicarelly:
http://www.cycling74.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2007/9/28/105551/882

and videos showing the new max:
http://www.cycling74.com/story/2007/10/5/91222/9559


Hans-Christoph Steiner(e)k dio:


Hmm, looks nice, with lots of nifty features.  But I think a lot  
of them
would drive me nuts.  Like the fact that you can move the GUI  
elements

around in presentation mode separately from edit mode.

.hc

On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/08/first-max-5-preview- 
music-patching-the-next-generation/

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Re: [PD] colrgrid / GOP behaviour

[cyrille henry]

Jerome Tuncer a écrit :
> Hi Yves/list,
> 
> I'm extensively using Yves/Lluis' [colorgrid] graphical object and have 
> a question about one of its behaviour.
> 
> What prevents it from appearing on GOP patches ?
> 
> I already noticed this behaviour with other GUI stuff - namely core 
> pd/IEM's [vu]). From a user (!= programmer) point of view, this seems 
> strange to see two different behaviours for GUI objects regarding GOP 
> patching.
> 
> If this is easy to implement, this is on my wishlist for colorgrid Yves (:
this should have been fixed.
last time i tried, it was working for me.
cyrille

> 
> 
> Jé
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates (French)

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 8, 2007, at 3:30 PM, Olivier Heinry wrote:

> Le lundi 08 octobre 2007 à 13:16 -0400, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
>> On Mon, 8 Oct 2007, Thomas Mayer wrote:
>>
 $stub = ""; # Je ne sais pas à quoi ça peut correspondre
>>>
>>> short articles in the French wikipedia use the term "ébauche", which
>>> means according to my online translation "draft". German  
>>> wikipedia uses
>>> "unvollständig", meaning "incomplete".
>>
>> I tend to think of a draft as something that could be as much as  
>> almost
>> complete, or not, and a stub as just a beginning.
>>
>> Ébauche can be translated as a sketch or an outline.
>>
>> Stub often means placeholder (i don't know how to translate this).
>>
>> Babelfish says "stub" -> "moignon" (!)
>>
> Why not "Brouillon"? Something you draw in a rush "sur le coin de la
> table" and almost illegible?
>
> "Ébauche" means something much more elaborated, although not completed
> yet.
>
> My 2 thunes...

Wikipedia FR uses "ébauche" for stub and "Modèle" for template:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:%C3%89bauche

And "infobox" seems to be a universal term in Wikipedia:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:Infobox

.hc

>
> O.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[altern]

these links interesting as well.

An article by Zicarelly:
http://www.cycling74.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2007/9/28/105551/882

and videos showing the new max:
http://www.cycling74.com/story/2007/10/5/91222/9559


Hans-Christoph Steiner(e)k dio:
> 
> Hmm, looks nice, with lots of nifty features.  But I think a lot of them 
> would drive me nuts.  Like the fact that you can move the GUI elements 
> around in presentation mode separately from edit mode.
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:
> 
>> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/08/first-max-5-preview-music-patching-the-next-generation/
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[PD] colrgrid / GOP behaviour

[Jerome Tuncer]

Hi Yves/list,

I'm extensively using Yves/Lluis' [colorgrid] graphical object and have 
a question about one of its behaviour.

What prevents it from appearing on GOP patches ?

I already noticed this behaviour with other GUI stuff - namely core 
pd/IEM's [vu]). From a user (!= programmer) point of view, this seems 
strange to see two different behaviours for GUI objects regarding GOP 
patching.

If this is easy to implement, this is on my wishlist for colorgrid Yves (:


Jé


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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Hmm, looks nice, with lots of nifty features.  But I think a lot of  
them would drive me nuts.  Like the fact that you can move the GUI  
elements around in presentation mode separately from edit mode.


.hc

On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/08/first-max-5-preview-music- 
patching-the-next-generation/

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Re: [PD] pd-extended 39-3 libraries load

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Try [oscx/dumpOSC].

I just uninstalled Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc3 on WinXP and installed this  
version [dumpOSC] worked out of box.

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-10-09/

.hc

On Oct 9, 2007, at 5:23 AM, pit klong wrote:

>
>
>> the problem with demux is, that it is an abbreviation for  
>> demultiplex,
>> and pd(-extended) does not recognize it by default. (after you  
>> created
>
> sorry, unlucky example. but again, pd-extended doesn't load a lot  
> of libraries after installing. i mentioned also "dumpOSC", and so on.
>
> p.
>
>> demultiplex you can also create demux objects). to solve that problem
>> add -lib zexy to your preferences/startup startup flags. I hope that
>> does it.
>> I think that bug is fixed in the newer versions of pd-extended
>> (autobuild).
>> you can also try to use [import zexy] in your patch.
>> marius.
>>
>>
>> pit klong wrote:
 On Windows, if you install the registry settings that are  
 included in
 the installer, then all of the libraries will be loaded.
>>>
 You can also run \Program Files\pd\pd-settings.reg to set all
 libraries to load on startup.
>>>
>>> it definitely doesn't work. i installed it, run manually
>> pd-settings.reg, but still (and also after rebooting) objects like  
>> "demux" or "dumpOSC"
>> aren't available.
>>>
>>> pit
>>>
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On Oct 7, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Luiz Naveda wrote:
>>>
 I ask me the same thing every day...

 Nowdays I have had a strange problem. I have my own library which
 depends on some other libraris from PD extended. When I have to
 install it in other computers, I put my folders in 2 of the 10  
 slot-
 path but normally it misses 3 or 4 other libraries, so I start to
 look for the missing objects and rewrite all missing libraries in
 the 10 slots...

 Best

 Luiz

 -- Forwarded message --
 From: Luiz Naveda 
 Date: Oct 7, 2007 12:51 PM
 Subject: Re: [PD] pd-extended 39-3 libraries load
 To: pit klong 

 I ask me the same thing every day...

 Nowdays I have had a strange problem. I have my own library which
 depends on some other libraris from PD extended. When I have to
 install it in other computers, I put my folders in 2 of the 10  
 slot-
 path but normally it misses 3 or 4 other libraries, so I start to
 look for the missing objects and rewrite all missing libraries in
 the 10 slots...

 Best

 Luiz
 On 10/7/07, pit klong  wrote:
 hello list,
 i've installed Pd-0.39.3-extended-rc5-windowsxp-i386.exe on XP,
 with default library set.

 i wonder that no dll's from the "extra"-path are available.
 and i do not understand at all, in file->path... there are 10 slots
 for paths, but you have plenty of more paths with libraries/
 externals in pd-ext.

 how do i manage a startup that loads ALL externals, ALL dlls?

 regards,
 pit


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[PD] G3 ppc support?

[altern]

hi

I use my old mac laptop few times a year to test/build things. Today I 
found that PD does not work any more, I get this error into pd.crash.log

Link (dylid) error:
incompatible cpu-subtype

it is an old G3 ppc iBook 500mhz. is this type of CPU not supported any 
more?

I tried the PD extended version
Pd-0.39.3-extended-rc5-macosx104-powerpc downloaded from hans website 
but also an older version 0.39.2 extended RC1

any one had a similar problem?

enrike

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Re: [PD] representing classes and selectors in the wiki

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:00 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> 
> 
>> and how can i find the different counters?
> 
> Searching for "counter" works pretty well (unfortunately, "Go" is the  
> default when you hit enter):

i see. what does "Go" mean?

> 
> http://wiki.puredata.info/en/Special:Search? 
> search=counter&fulltext=Search
> 
> Here's an example of how it can work:
> 
> http://wiki.puredata.info/en/counter

ah ok, now the disambiguation is here. last time i tried it was only the 
cyclone object, and the "search" (or was it "go"?) just returned that 
page, so i only got that object.

> http://wiki.puredata.info/en/cyclone/counter

ah cool.
i guess creating these pages and redirecting to _() has 
to be done manually?

mfg.adsr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] representning classes and selectors in the wiki

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:00 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>> - like roman said, I think that all things Pd are welcome in the   
>> pdpedia.  Libraries that are not in Pd-extended should follow the   
>> same naming scheme, i.e. mylibrary/myobject.
>
> what happened to this scheme?
> has it just been forgotten at the import process, or has it been  
> deprecated in favour of myobject_(mylibrary)?

Since mediawiki is built around the myobject_(mylibrary) idea, we  
decided to use that as the canonical page name.  Then things like  
alphasort in category pages work nicely.  For the mylibrary/myobject  
name format, those can easily be redirect pages.  I supposed those  
should all be created via a script...

> and how can i find the different counters?

Searching for "counter" works pretty well (unfortunately, "Go" is the  
default when you hit enter):

http://wiki.puredata.info/en/Special:Search? 
search=counter&fulltext=Search

Here's an example of how it can work:

http://wiki.puredata.info/en/counter
http://wiki.puredata.info/en/counter_%28cyclone%29
http://wiki.puredata.info/en/counter_%28markex%29
http://wiki.puredata.info/en/cyclone/counter

.hc

>
>
> mfga.dsr
> IOhannes



 


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Re: [PD] representning classes and selectors in the wiki

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 8, 2007, at 11:31 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

> Hallo,
> marius schebella hat gesagt: // marius schebella wrote:
>
>> the double entries will be distinguished by disambiguation pages  
>> and the
>> myobject_(mylibrary) scheme. here is a list of candidates for
>> disambiguation pages (so far). has to be done menually...
>
> Idea: An interesting thing to do cross-references would be objects,
> that behave the same, but possibly are called differently. For example
> the abstraction [urne] from rtc-lib is a vanilla-Pd clone of [urn]
> from Cyclone, but it's different from [urn] in Zexy. Some way to point
> user to these things could be nice.

Yes, that would be nice, please contribute! :D

.hc

>
> Ciao
> -- 
>  Frank Barknecht _  
> __footils.org__
>
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Re: [PD] Writing down a midi file in PD

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Now that's cool, a video help patch.  I added the link to a barebones  
page for seq:

http://wiki.puredata.info/en/seq

.hc

On Oct 8, 2007, at 10:45 AM, giucant wrote:

> Hi,
> if you need an help patch for seq:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHBMEpgzPDA
>
> bye
> j
>
>
> --- Ice Cube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ha scritto:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I´m making a little PD project that generates
>> algorithmic music using midi objects like noteout
>> and makenote. My problem is that I need to record
>> all this midi info being generated by the PD (like
>> pitch of the notes and it's durations and etc) in a
>> midi file, so I can handle this info later in
>> another program (like Finale). I have some
>> experience in MAX/MSP, and in this program, it's
>> very simple to do that: just use an object called
>> "SEQ". This object writes down a complete midi file
>> with all midi information being produced in the
>> project. I've spend many hours looking around PD
>> trying to find out an object that suit my needs, but
>> without sucess.
>>
>> I'm a composer, and for my needs, it's extremely
>> important that I can write down midi info,
>> especially because I can edit this info later in a
>> program like Finale and generate a "human friendly"
>> score that any musician can understand.
>>
>>
>> Anyone can help me? Any advice?
>>
>> Thanxx
>> xD
>>
> _
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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Mon, 8 Oct 2007, Chris McCormick wrote:

On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 12:41:22PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

There's a difference between being sensitive to racism and dismissing
history.

I wonder why we don't refer to the european hordes rushing into countless
continents, slaughtering and raping the local peoples for the last few
hundred years? There is a difference between dismissing history and
selective memory.


Just because we don't mention it *here*, doesn't mean we don't know it or 
want to forget it. We don't have quotas of representation of historical 
facts on pd-list. If you want to balance the representation of historical 
facts on pd-list, do your own share if you will, but pd-list has no such 
duty.


Now, while you're back into that topic, can you point to me the reasons 
why Canada refused to sign the last treaty about natives? You seemed to 
assume that if Canada had not signed it, it had to be for the worst of 
reasons, but have you actually read about the reasons?


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Re: [PD] pd-extended 39-3 libraries load

[Martin Peach]

pit klong wrote:
>sorry, unlucky example. but again, pd-extended doesn't load a lot of 
>libraries after installing. i mentioned also "dumpOSC", and so on.

I guess that's because pd doesn't drill down into the extra directory to 
find things unless you specify the path.
At least on the 040 extended version, I find that I have to move all the 
externals out of their directories within pd/extra and put them in pd/extra. 
So for example everything in pd/extra/oscx would go into /pd/extra. The same 
applies for the help patches in directories inside pd/doc/5.reference.
There's also an [import] object that you can give the name of the directory 
but it doesn't work for me.
You can also use [oscx/dumpOSC] but that's messy, IMHO.
Martin



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Re: [PD] pix_video in OSX

[Max Neupert]

Am 09.10.2007 um 08:29 schrieb Oded Ben-Tal:

> Is the builtin camera supported somehow with pix_video, and if so  
> how do I
> get it o work? If not is it possible to setup a video caputre under  
> Mac
> intel OS10.4?

i've tested the builtin camera of macbook pro works with pix_video  
and it worked without problem.
m.

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Re: [PD] pix_video in OSX

[marius schebella]

it is always good to tell a little bit more about your hardware 
(macbook?) when asking questions like this.
on a mbp it works out of the box

[gemhead]
  |
[pix_video]
  |
[pix_texture]
  |
[rectangle 4 3]

marius.

Oded Ben-Tal wrote:
> Is the builtin camera supported somehow with pix_video, and if so how do I 
> get it o work? If not is it possible to setup a video caputre under Mac 
> intel OS10.4?
> 
> thanks
> Oded
> 


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[João Miguel Pais]

> the [not so funny thing] about sexist [ and heavy ] people
> is like of one having a d*** in place of his nose,
> he's just unable to see it.

dude, without wanting to be offensive: it's a really good thing to be a  
rebel and provide alternatives to mainstream established corrupt power and  
etc., but it's not good to be a fundamentalist, whatever what's your  
"religion" (wahhabism, christian, capitalism, feminism, animal  
rights). this thread started with you complaining about the terms 'wet  
dream' and 'gang bang'. If you do a search for them in this list, you'll  
find:

'wet dream' - 2002, one thread with 4 mails. also women can have wet  
dreams, just like women can ejaculate - go figure, just like men. some  
really emancipated women that I know speak about their wet dreams, how  
they would like to "get that guy", and etc. - which I find quite good,  
because they're free to live their lives as they want to, and they do it.  
and anyway they don't care about what I think, because they just do what  
they want.

'gang bang' - some mails in 2004, one or 2 in 2006. related with an  
object, not with the action. by the way, check the wikipedia,  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gang_bang: gang bang is something done by  
both sexes, and "is now increasingly applied only to consensual sexual  
behavior in the sexual swinging community". unles you meant 'gang rape',  
but a search in the pd list turns out no results. I guess we macho  
women-enslaving pders have something to learn yet, thank you for bringing  
that up.

So resuming, you're complaining about something that someone wrote once or  
twice years ago? either is the whole list very wrong, or you might be  
exagerating a bit. anyway if you're against macho and sexism, you're in  
the right place, the country in europe with the greatest number of  
domestic violence-provoked deaths - even worse as Portugal. if you want to  
do something about it, start there.
anyway, if you're really serious about sexism in this list and not just  
mouthing out, get some real references, and we'll talk about it like  
civilized people. think of it as providing a bug report: if you only say  
"this object doesn't work" no one will have a clue of what you meant, and  
people might start talking about something general without going to the  
point; if you say "this object did so and so in these conditions, here's a  
log for you to see" then people have some reference. if you really think  
we're sexist or we can improve something, do something more than scream  
"you filthy pigs" - you'll notice that people will be more interested in  
the subject, and will be more responsive.


> all the answers we got on this thread really show
> the high level of sexism on this list,
> and once again, some girls will not answer to this level
> of discussion ..

you know, all these years as a (not very active) member of pd list I never  
saw many women mailing, providing abstractions or externals. are we really  
so bad that they don't even subscribe? again I ask, if you're serious  
about this theme, search the list and send concrete references to the  
list. unles you mean using [bang] is sexist...


> pd : btw, we will not meet in Lisboa, thank you no...

I prefer it that way too, I don't know if I would be able to take your  
"street language" and your linux fundamentalism.


check out the old area of Alfama in a sunny day, it's quite beautiful. if  
you go out at night, try Bairro Alto, and the Zé dos Bois art  
gallery/bar/concert venue, there's always something happening there, and  
they should be interested in your work. there's also going to be a free  
software encounter in 12 and 13 - http://www.softwarelivre.com.pt/,  
probably most of it in portuguese and not music-related. Don't be afraid,  
I won't be there.
the areas outside Lisboa are quite nice, Sintra, Cascais (maybe too  
decadent), Alentejo,  and of course, wine and fish.


Joao

PS to the rest of the list: sorry for the troll feeding, it won't happen  
again (it's my first time)

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[PD] pix_video in OSX

[Oded Ben-Tal]

Is the builtin camera supported somehow with pix_video, and if so how do I 
get it o work? If not is it possible to setup a video caputre under Mac 
intel OS10.4?

thanks
Oded

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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[ydegoyon]

ola,

> - do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2:
> One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k.
>

the [not so funny thing] about sexist [ and heavy ] people
is like of one having a d*** in place of his nose,
he's just unable to see it.

all the answers we got on this thread really show
the high level of sexism on this list,
and once again, some girls will not answer to this level
of discussion ..

sevy

pd : btw, we will not meet in Lisboa, thank you no...

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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[henrik wurster]

pd not sexist but sexiest

2007/10/9, João Miguel Pais <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> I have 30 cents to make this discussion even more useful and meaningful as
> it already is:
>
>
> - How about discussing enviromentalism and how pd contributes to global
> warming, or the socio-political effects of data structures' last
> improvements in the ambitus of left-handed users of the olpc project,
> since it's also as interesting as what you're doing now;
>
> - if you think pd is sexist, don't stay inactive, provide your anti-sexist
> externals to Hans, and they'll be part of pd extended. or program some
> anti-sexist scripts to apply to the list server. or scan the pd mailling
> list for sexist mails, and then expell their authors from the list and
> have a swat team go to their homes and burn their computers and chop off
> their typing fingers;
>
> - do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2:
> One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k.
> [I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least it's a
> humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last weeks]
>
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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[João Miguel Pais]

I have 30 cents to make this discussion even more useful and meaningful as  
it already is:


- How about discussing enviromentalism and how pd contributes to global  
warming, or the socio-political effects of data structures' last  
improvements in the ambitus of left-handed users of the olpc project,  
since it's also as interesting as what you're doing now;

- if you think pd is sexist, don't stay inactive, provide your anti-sexist  
externals to Hans, and they'll be part of pd extended. or program some  
anti-sexist scripts to apply to the list server. or scan the pd mailling  
list for sexist mails, and then expell their authors from the list and  
have a swat team go to their homes and burn their computers and chop off  
their typing fingers;

- do you know how many feminists are necessary to change a lightbulb? 2:  
One to change the lightbulb, and one to s**k my c**k.
[I think all users are old enough to read this, and at least it's a  
humorous tone, not purely offensive like some mails in the last weeks]

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Re: [PD] pd-extended 39-3 libraries load

[pit klong]

> the problem with demux is, that it is an abbreviation for demultiplex, 
> and pd(-extended) does not recognize it by default. (after you created 

sorry, unlucky example. but again, pd-extended doesn't load a lot of libraries 
after installing. i mentioned also "dumpOSC", and so on.

p.

> demultiplex you can also create demux objects). to solve that problem 
> add -lib zexy to your preferences/startup startup flags. I hope that 
> does it.
> I think that bug is fixed in the newer versions of pd-extended
> (autobuild).
> you can also try to use [import zexy] in your patch.
> marius.
> 
> 
> pit klong wrote:
> >> On Windows, if you install the registry settings that are included in  
> >> the installer, then all of the libraries will be loaded.
> > 
> >> You can also run \Program Files\pd\pd-settings.reg to set all  
> >> libraries to load on startup.
> > 
> > it definitely doesn't work. i installed it, run manually
> pd-settings.reg, but still (and also after rebooting) objects like "demux" or 
> "dumpOSC"
> aren't available.
> > 
> > pit
> > 
> > 
> > .hc
> > 
> > On Oct 7, 2007, at 7:12 AM, Luiz Naveda wrote:
> > 
> >> I ask me the same thing every day...
> >>
> >> Nowdays I have had a strange problem. I have my own library which  
> >> depends on some other libraris from PD extended. When I have to  
> >> install it in other computers, I put my folders in 2 of the 10 slot- 
> >> path but normally it misses 3 or 4 other libraries, so I start to  
> >> look for the missing objects and rewrite all missing libraries in  
> >> the 10 slots...
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Luiz
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded message --
> >> From: Luiz Naveda 
> >> Date: Oct 7, 2007 12:51 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [PD] pd-extended 39-3 libraries load
> >> To: pit klong 
> >>
> >> I ask me the same thing every day...
> >>
> >> Nowdays I have had a strange problem. I have my own library which  
> >> depends on some other libraris from PD extended. When I have to  
> >> install it in other computers, I put my folders in 2 of the 10 slot- 
> >> path but normally it misses 3 or 4 other libraries, so I start to  
> >> look for the missing objects and rewrite all missing libraries in  
> >> the 10 slots...
> >>
> >> Best
> >>
> >> Luiz
> >> On 10/7/07, pit klong  wrote:
> >> hello list,
> >> i've installed Pd-0.39.3-extended-rc5-windowsxp-i386.exe on XP,  
> >> with default library set.
> >>
> >> i wonder that no dll's from the "extra"-path are available.
> >> and i do not understand at all, in file->path... there are 10 slots  
> >> for paths, but you have plenty of more paths with libraries/  
> >> externals in pd-ext.
> >>
> >> how do i manage a startup that loads ALL externals, ALL dlls?
> >>
> >> regards,
> >> pit
> >>
> >>

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] PD-announce Digest, Vol 31, Issue 7

[Jim Prevett]

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Thank you
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Re: [PD] double gemhead (was: displaying long text in GEM)

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
chris clepper hat gesagt: // chris clepper wrote:

> On 10/8/07, Maciej Wojnicki <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > the idea seems very similar to using the [repeat] object
> > do you think that using doubled gemhead has any advantages over using
> > repeat??
> > is there any difference in practice?
> 
> 
> The gemhead object resets the states for OpenGL and also some pix_
> settings.  Anything after it is starts as a clean slate similar to combining
> [separator] and [pix_separator].

Yep. To illustrate the difference between both approaches, see
attached patch. The double-gemhead idiom however is related to another
approach involving [any] and [seperator], that you can see in action
in some pmpd/msd-example patch, IIRC.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__


double-gemhead_vs_repeat.pd
Description: application/puredata
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