Re: [PD] Comport and UBW problems on Linux

[Thomas O Fredericks]

Hi Martin,

just to make sure, the newest version of comport is in iem/comport/comport
right?

"But the result should be the same, the data gets sent anyway, the error is
bogus."

Nope, the data is never received by the device.
Please note that there are only problems with sending data through comport
(the actual message sent is 16 bytes long). I can receive long messages
without a problem (sometimes a returned message can be as long as 63 bytes).

" Maybe try sending the bytes one at a time slowly?"

Yes, that works with the ridiculous slow drip/unfold speed of 5 ms between
every byte!

Tom
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Re: [PD] about pd

[Roman Haefeli]

On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 01:24 -0400, marius schebella wrote:
> Andy Farnell wrote:
> > I'll drink to that. Everyone raise a glass to death of the "sexism" thread.
> > May it never be spoken of again.
> 
> well then peace. I raise a bottle of becks to roman the great thread slayer.
> marius.

hey, man! how did you know, that i like becks the most (right after
jever)?

cheers

ps..scglngglnggg  aaahh!!!

roman





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Re: [PD] Fwd: portuguese pdpedia template

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Any other comments on this translation?  I'll do the import this  
weekend, if not.  :D

.hc

On Oct 8, 2007, at 7:07 PM, João Miguel Pais wrote:

> (1st mail went to the wrong list)
>
>
> Portuguese:
>
> (checked by a programmer)
>
> # wikipedia terms
> $stub = "Esboço";
> $template = "Template";
> $category = "Categoria";
> $infobox = "Infobox";
>
> # pdpedia terms
> $objectclass = "Classe do objecto";
>
> # page headers
> $inlets = "Entradas";
> $outlets = "Saídas";
> $arguments = "Argumentos";
> $messages = "Mensagens";
>
> # infobox
> $name = "Nome";
> $description = "Descrição";
> $abbreviation = "Abreviatura";
> $library = "Biblioteca";
> $author = "Autor";
> $developer = "Programador";
> $releaseVersion = "Versão actual";
> $releaseDate = "Data de lançamento";
> $dependencies = "Dependências";
> $license = "Licença";
> $website = "Website";
> $programmingLanguage = "Linguagem de programação";
> $platform = "Plataforma";
> $operatingSystem = "Sistema operativo";
> $language = "Linguagem";
> $dataType = "Tipo de dado";
> $distributions = "Distribuições";
>
>
>
> -- 
> Friedenstr. 58
> 10249 Berlin
> Deutschland
> Tel +49 30 42020091
> Mob +49 162 6843570
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> skype: jmmmpjmmmp
> http://www.puredata.org/Members/jmmmp
> IBM Thinkpad R51, XP, Pd-Ext-0.39-2-t5, Pd Van 0.40-t2
>
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The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
King, Jr.



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Re: [PD] about pd

[marius schebella]

Andy Farnell wrote:
> I'll drink to that. Everyone raise a glass to death of the "sexism" thread.
> May it never be spoken of again.

well then peace. I raise a bottle of becks to roman the great thread slayer.
marius.

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Re: [PD] about pd

[Andy Farnell]

I'll drink to that. Everyone raise a glass to death of the "sexism" thread.
May it never be spoken of again.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:20:53 -0500
"Jared Regan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> a nice stout for mefirst round is on me!!!
> 
> 
> >From: marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >CC: pd-list@iem.at
> >Subject: Re: [PD] about pd
> >Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:56:39 -0400
> >
> >which beer?
> >...
> >marius.
> >
> >Roman Haefeli wrote:
> > > hi all
> > >
> > > it seems, that some discussions are not only off-topic pd-wise, but even
> > > off-topic thread-wise (it started with sexism and is now somewhere
> > > around the perception of the american people in the world and first
> > > nation issues).
> > > i don't see, how such discussions could come to an end, that is why i
> > > propose, that the next one, who continues this certain thread, pays for
> > > a round of beer.
> > >
> > > roman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: 
> >http://mail.yahoo.de
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> > >
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> >
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> 
> 
> 


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Re: [PD] Comport and UBW problems on Linux

[Martin Peach]

Thomas O Fredericks wrote:
> I am creating an abstraction to ease the communication with an UBW 
> (USB Bit Wacker: http://greta.dhs.org/UBW/index.html 
> ).
>
> The abstraction uses comport to communicate with the device. It is 
> considered as USB modem by the system. See the tail of dmesg when the 
> device is plugged in to my Ubuntu machine:
>
> [102406.169656] usb 1-5: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and 
> address 8
> [102406.381592] usb 1-5: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
> [102415.654264] usb 1-5: USB disconnect, address 8
> [102416.484598 ] usb 1-5: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and 
> address 9
> [102416.706005] usb 1-5: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
> [102416.708971] drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: This device cannot do 
> calls on its own. It is no modem.
> [102416.708984] cdc_acm 1-5:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device
>
> The problem is as follows:  The abstraction works fine in XP,
> but in Ubuntu,
> when I want to send more than three values
> (i.e. something like [77,65,49,42,13< ),
> comport complains that:
>
> "[comport] write returned -1, errno is 11
> Write error, maybe TX-OVERRUNS on serial line"
>
 From an errno.h:

#define EAGAIN  11  /* Try again */

Maybe try sending the bytes one at a time slowly?
I'm guessing that EAGAIN means the data has not been sent yet, it's still in 
the queue.
I think it works in the XP version because write_serial() explicitly checks for 
an ERROR_IO_PENDING.
But the result should be the same, the data gets sent anyway, the error is 
bogus.
If that's the problem I'll fix it tomorrow in cvs.

Martin


> Now, ttyACM0 is a weird device because it does not have a baud rate. 
> It simply sends the data as fast as it can. So, this message DOES not 
> make any sense.
>
> I know it is not a problem with my configuration of Ubuntu because I 
> was able to establish proper communication with Perl.
>
> Anybody have a clue on how to solve this or modify comport? (I used a 
> version I compiled from pd cvs and another from pd-extended and both 
> failed).
>
> Tom
> 
>
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Re: [PD] about pd

[Charles Henry]

> As loing as it is not the crap beer we make in America!  ;)

I know what you mean... I could go for a nice Stella Artois or a
Peroni... or a dozen Harboes...

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Re: [PD] about pd

[Jared Regan]

a nice stout for mefirst round is on me!!!



From: marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] about pd
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:56:39 -0400

which beer?
...
marius.

Roman Haefeli wrote:
> hi all
>
> it seems, that some discussions are not only off-topic pd-wise, but even
> off-topic thread-wise (it started with sexism and is now somewhere
> around the perception of the american people in the world and first
> nation issues).
> i don't see, how such discussions could come to an end, that is why i
> propose, that the next one, who continues this certain thread, pays for
> a round of beer.
>
> roman
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: 
http://mail.yahoo.de

>
>
>
>
> 
>
> ___
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Re: [PD] about pd

[chris clepper]

On 10/10/07, Roman Haefeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> that is why i
> propose, that the next one, who continues this certain thread, pays for
> a round of beer.


As loing as it is not the crap beer we make in America!  ;)
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Re: [PD] about pd

[marius schebella]

which beer?
...
marius.

Roman Haefeli wrote:
> hi all
> 
> it seems, that some discussions are not only off-topic pd-wise, but even
> off-topic thread-wise (it started with sexism and is now somewhere
> around the perception of the american people in the world and first
> nation issues).
> i don't see, how such discussions could come to an end, that is why i
> propose, that the next one, who continues this certain thread, pays for
> a round of beer.
> 
> roman
> 
>  
> 
> 
>   
>   
> ___ 
> Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: 
> http://mail.yahoo.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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[PD] Comport and UBW problems on Linux

[Thomas O Fredericks]

I am creating an abstraction to ease the communication with an UBW (USB Bit
Wacker: http://greta.dhs.org/UBW/index.html).

The abstraction uses comport to communicate with the device. It is
considered as USB modem by the system. See the tail of dmesg when the device
is plugged in to my Ubuntu machine:

[102406.169656] usb 1-5: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and
address 8
[102406.381592] usb 1-5: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
[102415.654264] usb 1-5: USB disconnect, address 8
[102416.484598 ] usb 1-5: new full speed USB device using ohci_hcd and
address 9
[102416.706005] usb 1-5: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice
[102416.708971] drivers/usb/class/cdc-acm.c: This device cannot do calls on
its own. It is no modem.
[102416.708984] cdc_acm 1-5:1.0: ttyACM0: USB ACM device

The problem is as follows:  The abstraction works fine in XP,
but in Ubuntu,
when I want to send more than three values
(i.e. something like [77,65,49,42,13< ),
comport complains that:

"[comport] write returned -1, errno is 11
Write error, maybe TX-OVERRUNS on serial line"

Now, ttyACM0 is a weird device because it does not have a baud rate. It
simply sends the data as fast as it can. So, this message DOES not make any
sense.

I know it is not a problem with my configuration of Ubuntu because I was
able to establish proper communication with Perl.

Anybody have a clue on how to solve this or modify comport? (I used a
version I compiled from pd cvs and another from pd-extended and both
failed).

Tom
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[PD] about pd

[Roman Haefeli]

hi all

it seems, that some discussions are not only off-topic pd-wise, but even
off-topic thread-wise (it started with sexism and is now somewhere
around the perception of the american people in the world and first
nation issues).
i don't see, how such discussions could come to an end, that is why i
propose, that the next one, who continues this certain thread, pays for
a round of beer.

roman

 




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Re: [PD] click interface hack??

[Kevin McCoy]

Thank you Peter!  This is a great workaround and I will use it in the
meantime.  In fact it is almost nicer than all that clicking.
cheers!!
km

On 10/10/07, Peter Plessas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> For anyone on Linux, there is a nice workaround using your capslock-key
> as a mouse button as posted on this list by i think Frank some time ago:
> (You might need to check the numeric keycodes of your keyboard with xev
> first).
>
> # disable capslock
> xmodmap -e "remove lock = Caps_Lock"
>
> # set to mouse button
> xmodmap -e "keycode 66 = Pointer_Button1"
>
> # turn things on:
> xkbset m
>
> #
>
> # turn it off again:
> xmodmap -e "keycode 66 = Caps_Lock"
> xkbset -m
> xmodmap -e "add lock = Caps_Lock"
>
>
> mfg, Peter
>
> * Kevin McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-10 03:35]:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > Has anyone done a hack so instead of clicking and dragging patch cords
> > (which is kind of awkward still), you can click an outlet and then it
> starts
> > the patch cord and then move the mouse freehand to the destination,
> click an
> > inlet and it connects them that way?  To cancel the patch cord you can
> just
> > click on the blank canvas.
> >
> > I am pretty sure I must not be the only one who has thought of this..
> just
> > curious?
> >
> > km
>
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Re: [PD] Fwd: [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, eric labelle wrote:


just noticed...a bouchard flaming an american for his peoples Genocide?
Where were your ancestors when the french starved the iroquois into peace in
new france man?


No, this is not what I have written. Please read emails carefully, and 
look at who writes what, or just delete.


and you're supposed to have learned that there were more peoples in those 
four wars than just the french and the iroquois.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_and_Indian_War

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Re: [PD] click interface hack??

[Peter Plessas]

For anyone on Linux, there is a nice workaround using your capslock-key
as a mouse button as posted on this list by i think Frank some time ago:
(You might need to check the numeric keycodes of your keyboard with xev
first).

# disable capslock
xmodmap -e "remove lock = Caps_Lock"

# set to mouse button 
xmodmap -e "keycode 66 = Pointer_Button1"

# turn things on:
xkbset m

#

# turn it off again:
xmodmap -e "keycode 66 = Caps_Lock"
xkbset -m
xmodmap -e "add lock = Caps_Lock"


mfg, Peter

* Kevin McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-10-10 03:35]:
> Hi list,
> 
> Has anyone done a hack so instead of clicking and dragging patch cords
> (which is kind of awkward still), you can click an outlet and then it starts
> the patch cord and then move the mouse freehand to the destination, click an
> inlet and it connects them that way?  To cancel the patch cord you can just
> click on the blank canvas.
> 
> I am pretty sure I must not be the only one who has thought of this.. just
> curious?
> 
> km

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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

[jared]

jared wrote:
> if its so fucking
> bad why would you want to visit?  

Some people have the hope, the true situation would not be so
depressing.

Hope?  Please.  The conversations that I was talking about,
these people weren't talking about 'hope'...they were flat out  trashing
the American people and government...and being very angry   about
it...it was funny because they knew I was American and they seemed
to be trying to upset me...they were surprised that, for themost
part, I agreed with everything they said...i think some people  forget
that no one is more angry at the American government than the   American
peopledid you happen to see or hear about the many  marches and
protests against Bush after he was elected?  I was in   Europe after
Bush's second election and I didn't see or hear anythingabout
the protests of the American people.  The media outlets there   seemed
to be happy with portraying all US citizens as stupid idiotswho were
sheep in the Bush flockgod, for the most part, the mediathere is
worse than it is here...and that is saying something...

> .but who
> is worse: the Idiot, or the guy who follows the idiot?

except for romania, there are not so many countries in the world, who 
follow the US at the moment.

Good news there

> I didn't vote for Bush...neither did half of the American
> voters...that's over 150 million United States citizens who didn't
vote
> for Bush 

I am not sure, how you calculate this. because in 2000 50mio people 
voted for bush. which means 250mio citizens (including children and 
non-voters) did not. 51mio voters voted actively against bush, 249 mio 
citizens did not... (only 101mio people actively voted.)
for years later (due to his successful policy...), 62mio voted for bush.
marius.

Okay, my numbers are wrong...but you get my point, don't you?
So, say, 51 million people voted AGAINST BUSH in 2000...51 million
is  nearly the total population of Italy, or France...My point is
that51 million is a lot of people to ignorantly lump into the Fat,
American Cowboy Bush voter category.

peace


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

[marius schebella]

jared wrote:
> if its so fucking
> bad why would you want to visit?  

Some people have the hope, the true situation would not be so depressing.

> .but who
> is worse: the Idiot, or the guy who follows the idiot?

except for romania, there are not so many countries in the world, who 
follow the US at the moment.

> I didn't vote for Bush...neither did half of the American
> voters...that's over 150 million United States citizens who didn't vote
> for Bush 

I am not sure, how you calculate this. because in 2000 50mio people 
voted for bush. which means 250mio citizens (including children and 
non-voters) did not. 51mio voters voted actively against bush, 249 mio 
citizens did not... (only 101mio people actively voted.)
for years later (due to his successful policy...), 62mio voted for bush.
marius.

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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

[jared]

I'm from the statesi've spent a lot of time overseasi find it
hilarious that, on several different occasions, I've been in
conversations with Europeans who would talk bad about the USthen,
after talking shit for an hour, they always end the conversation with,
"yeah, I'm going to the US in a couple of weeks"if its so fucking
bad why would you want to visit?  

I often hear Europeans bitching about how fat and stupid the American
culture iswell, every European country I've visited has had a
McDonalds, and there is always line of people ready to feed their
facesdon't blame the American cultureblame your citizens who
keep the American companies in businessdon't get me wrong, the
American culture is FULL of ignorancesure, we are idiots.but who
is worse: the Idiot, or the guy who follows the idiot?

I didn't vote for Bush...neither did half of the American
voters...that's over 150 million United States citizens who didn't vote
for Bush and his foreign policy (and domestic policies)...so please,
don't lump everyone togetherMake love not war!  

:-)

peace


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2007 7:43 PM
To: pd-list@iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

wow, only a few pages before the inevitable usa bashing.

BORING.

last i checked the primary developer of pd was an american, yes?









 marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> 
> >> Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and
the 
> >> "war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't
mean 
> >> they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.
> > 
> > Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?
> 
> why? I think because USamericans are fearful people. they are fearful,

> because they never learned to talk about their problematic history. 
> genocide and slavery. they just inherit the guilty consciousness 
> unprocessed from generation to generation. therefor they only feel
safe, 
> when they are protected by a big brother. they live with the idea of
the 
> survival of the fittest (make the rich richer). they never gave black 
> people compensation for their exploitation (nor any other group). as a

> matter of fact this is not only US history, but western history in 
> general, but european countries experienced worldwar II and I think
they 
> changed their way on communal thinking about racism and so on. there
was 
> some shift in common notion and also the wish to keep this notion
alive.
> USamericans subconsciously still fear revenge. and even worse, some of

> them even think it is a good idea to have a small, rich, educated 
> leading elite that controls the big majority of people. they propose a

> free market, which I see rather as a free slave market, because 
> preconditions are not fair at all for all people. they try to oppress 
> every effort of union building and their voting system is a "the
winner 
> takes it all". in europe it took green parties more than 20 years to 
> make it into gouvernments. in the US this is not possible, because
with 
> anything less than 50% you are nothing.
> and of course the US has a media that is owned by a handful of people,

> and an education system including universities that aligns itself more

> to the needs of companies and corporations than to the values of life.
> that's why "they" still vote for one of the two big parties.
> with the fall of the dollar, the raise of china, some bank crashs,
more 
> and more unemployed people, no health care, no social security I think

> people will start to vote differently within the the next 10-20 years.
> marius.
> 
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--
Patrick Pagano
Sound and Light Technologist
School of Theatre and Dance
University of Florida



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[PD] [PD-announce] PARTICLES OF INTEREST: TALES FROM THE MATTER MARKET (Berlin)

[marius schebella]

installation "powered by" Pd,
in case, you're in Berlin (I can't be there, sorry).
marius.


PARTICLES OF INTEREST: TALES FROM THE MATTER MARKET
(a  b.a.n.g lab project)
by
Ricardo Dominguez and Diane Ludin (Principal Investigators)
Nina Waisman, Tristan Shone, Caleb Waldorf (Lead Researchers)
Marius Schebella and Pierre Galaud (Assistant Researchers)

http://pitmm.net/

Performances
Fri 12.10.2007 19:00  free admission
Sa 13.10.2007  19:00  free admission

Installation Hours

Fri 12.10.2007 12:00h - 24:00h, free admission
Sa 13.10.2007 12:00h - 24:00h, free admission
Su 14.10.2007 12:00h - 24:00h, free admission

Interventions
Thur 11.10.2007 Around Berlin in Unexpected Spaces


nomadic new york counters Manhattan's restless flow of money with
"decelerated" in-between spaces. Their performance art refuses spectacle.
It takes on a political dimension through the formation of temporary
collectives which occupy spaces in new ways. The artists open up New York
and Berlin through their nomadic coming and going, their avoidance of
fixed structures. In Berlin they will tell us a story of life in the
global metropolis, a story that we all have in common.

For the market, nanoparticles hold the 21st century's great promise. For
critics, they are a vision of pure horror, as long as the toxicological
risks are not known. The era of unregulated nanocapitalism has already
dawned, with these smallest of particles being used today in cosmetics,
fabrics and dyes.

Knowledge is action!

http://www.hkw.de/en/programm2007/new_york/veranstaltungen_14292/Veranstaltu
ngsdetail_1_15249.php


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

[eric labelle]

shouldn't have singled anyone out like that...my apologies it's just this
whole nonesense is getting to me after the x number of days it has lasted
and gone nowhere.

2007/10/10, eric labelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> just noticed...a bouchard flaming an american for his peoples Genocide?
> Where were your ancestors when the french starved the iroquois into peace in
> new france man?
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: eric labelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 10 oct. 2007 18:50
> Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING
> To: " [EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> this whole facking thread is boring...the american bashing is the only
> thing keeping me on a list that would tolerate such flagrant abuse of
> people's time and bandwidth. Wow to hear them go at it they seem to take
> themselves seriously which is great...hack a bit of software and hold the
> key!! Hackers unite right?
>
> 2007/10/10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > wow, only a few pages before the inevitable usa bashing.
> >
> > BORING.
> >
> > last i checked the primary developer of pd was an american, yes?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  marius schebella < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> > >
> > > >> Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and
> > the
> > > >> "war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't
> > mean
> > > >> they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?
> > >
> > > why? I think because USamericans are fearful people. they are fearful,
> >
> > > because they never learned to talk about their problematic history.
> > > genocide and slavery. they just inherit the guilty consciousness
> > > unprocessed from generation to generation. therefor they only feel
> > safe,
> > > when they are protected by a big brother. they live with the idea of
> > the
> > > survival of the fittest (make the rich richer). they never gave black
> > > people compensation for their exploitation (nor any other group). as a
> >
> > > matter of fact this is not only US history, but western history in
> > > general, but european countries experienced worldwar II and I think
> > they
> > > changed their way on communal thinking about racism and so on. there
> > was
> > > some shift in common notion and also the wish to keep this notion
> > alive.
> > > USamericans subconsciously still fear revenge. and even worse, some of
> > > them even think it is a good idea to have a small, rich, educated
> > > leading elite that controls the big majority of people. they propose a
> > > free market, which I see rather as a free slave market, because
> > > preconditions are not fair at all for all people. they try to oppress
> > > every effort of union building and their voting system is a "the
> > winner
> > > takes it all". in europe it took green parties more than 20 years to
> > > make it into gouvernments. in the US this is not possible, because
> > with
> > > anything less than 50% you are nothing.
> > > and of course the US has a media that is owned by a handful of people,
> > > and an education system including universities that aligns itself more
> > > to the needs of companies and corporations than to the values of life.
> >
> > > that's why "they" still vote for one of the two big parties.
> > > with the fall of the dollar, the raise of china, some bank crashs,
> > more
> > > and more unemployed people, no health care, no social security I think
> >
> > > people will start to vote differently within the the next 10-20 years.
> > > marius.
> > >
> > > ___
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> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >
> > --
> > Patrick Pagano
> > Sound and Light Technologist
> > School of Theatre and Dance
> > University of Florida
> >
> >
> >
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[PD] Fwd: [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

[eric labelle]

just noticed...a bouchard flaming an american for his peoples Genocide?
Where were your ancestors when the french starved the iroquois into peace in
new france man?

-- Forwarded message --
From: eric labelle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10 oct. 2007 18:50
Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

this whole facking thread is boring...the american bashing is the only thing
keeping me on a list that would tolerate such flagrant abuse of people's
time and bandwidth. Wow to hear them go at it they seem to take themselves
seriously which is great...hack a bit of software and hold the key!! Hackers
unite right?

2007/10/10, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> wow, only a few pages before the inevitable usa bashing.
>
> BORING.
>
> last i checked the primary developer of pd was an american, yes?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  marius schebella < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> >
> > >> Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and the
> > >> "war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't
> mean
> > >> they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.
> > >
> > > Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?
> >
> > why? I think because USamericans are fearful people. they are fearful,
> > because they never learned to talk about their problematic history.
> > genocide and slavery. they just inherit the guilty consciousness
> > unprocessed from generation to generation. therefor they only feel safe,
>
> > when they are protected by a big brother. they live with the idea of the
> > survival of the fittest (make the rich richer). they never gave black
> > people compensation for their exploitation (nor any other group). as a
> > matter of fact this is not only US history, but western history in
> > general, but european countries experienced worldwar II and I think they
> > changed their way on communal thinking about racism and so on. there was
>
> > some shift in common notion and also the wish to keep this notion alive.
> > USamericans subconsciously still fear revenge. and even worse, some of
> > them even think it is a good idea to have a small, rich, educated
> > leading elite that controls the big majority of people. they propose a
> > free market, which I see rather as a free slave market, because
> > preconditions are not fair at all for all people. they try to oppress
> > every effort of union building and their voting system is a "the winner
> > takes it all". in europe it took green parties more than 20 years to
> > make it into gouvernments. in the US this is not possible, because with
> > anything less than 50% you are nothing.
> > and of course the US has a media that is owned by a handful of people,
> > and an education system including universities that aligns itself more
> > to the needs of companies and corporations than to the values of life.
> > that's why "they" still vote for one of the two big parties.
> > with the fall of the dollar, the raise of china, some bank crashs, more
> > and more unemployed people, no health care, no social security I think
> > people will start to vote differently within the the next 10-20 years.
> > marius.
> >
> > ___
> > PD-list@iem.at mailing list
> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
> --
> Patrick Pagano
> Sound and Light Technologist
> School of Theatre and Dance
> University of Florida
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Chuckk Hubbard]

On 10/10/07, Mathieu Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure which culture is "our" culture,
>
> In this context, it would be all the west-european, canadian, australian,
> nz, usa, ... mostly that.


That sounds more like hundreds of cultures, about which one person couldn't
speak authoritatively without doing lots of traveling first.


> Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and the
> > "war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't mean
> > they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.
>
> Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?


Because they don't believe anyone else will win.  Also, though they don't
necessarily buy the Axis of Evil stuff, they do buy lots of other things,
including shoes made in Mexico and everything else made in China, and
perhaps it is true that most don't want to think too hard about certain
things.

-Chuckk


-- 
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
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Re: [PD] Funky dependency on Debian PPC

[bigswift]

I just found the same thing, could not resolve the dependency 



 Hans-Christoph Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> 
> Hmm, that shouldn't be too hard to fix, I think... could you file a  
> bug report in the tracker?
> 
> http://puredata.org/dev/bugtracker
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:48 PM, Myo wrote:
> 
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > sorry that you have to hear from me again so soon, but I uncovered  
> > something funky when trying to install extended (version's >=  
> > 0.39.3) on Debian PPC. I get a dependency for 'libavifile', which,  
> > isn't available for PPC \= |  is this a bug in the installer, or am  
> > I missing something? I get the same result from the testing .deb's  
> > and the nightly auto builds.
> >
> > should point out that extended 0.39.2-rc5 is installed and working  
> > fine for some time now.
> >
> > thanks
> > cory
> >
> >
> >
> > p.s. I never did figure out the freebob thing. it seems to "work",  
> > but I ran out of free time before I figured it out how to configure  
> > it.
> > ___
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> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther  
> King, Jr.
> 
> 

--
Patrick Pagano
Sound and Light Technologist
School of Theatre and Dance
University of Florida



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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Thomas Grill]

Since i don't like a program to educate me, but i rather like to use a 
program to do things that i want, the new Max features will help with that.
The pd-based vibrez gui has also always separated the patcher logic from 
the gui, and i'm already curious to compare the two systems.
To my mind it will be increasingly hard for pd to keep up with Max, now 
given also partial dsp multi-kernel support and the possible linux port.

gr~~~

Hans-Christoph Steiner schrieb:
> The one part of presentation that I was intrigued by is the idea of  
> separating the interface from the implementation. I think it's  
> interesting to explore the idea, I just think that having the only  
> connection be that little fade effect when switching is not really a  
> strong enough connection.  It would only be at all effective with a  
> handful of elements, more than that, I think it would become hard to  
> track.
>
> .hc
>
> On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Andy Farnell wrote:
>
>   
>> I'm a bit torn on this. I actually like the concept, but you're right,
>> like all good things that make life easy they tend to erode discipline
>> and structure. The patch messy and sweep it all under the rug
>> philosophy is probably very appealing to many.
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:27:47 -0400
>> "Kevin McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> 
 The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses  
 existing Pd
 mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to  
 modularize their
 programs.

 
>>> 100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about  
>>> this
>>> presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be  
>>> planned into
>>> the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code  
>>> cleaner, use
>>> subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and  
>>> receives
>>> for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I  
>>> wasn't really
>>> excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I  
>>> misunderstand..
>>>
>>> km
>>>
>>>   
>> -- 
>> Use the source
>>
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>
>
>
>  
> 
>
> I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and  
> during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man  
> for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers.  - General  
> Smedley Butler
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism is BORING

[bigswift]

wow, only a few pages before the inevitable usa bashing.

BORING.

last i checked the primary developer of pd was an american, yes?









 marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
> 
> >> Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and the 
> >> "war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't mean 
> >> they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.
> > 
> > Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?
> 
> why? I think because USamericans are fearful people. they are fearful, 
> because they never learned to talk about their problematic history. 
> genocide and slavery. they just inherit the guilty consciousness 
> unprocessed from generation to generation. therefor they only feel safe, 
> when they are protected by a big brother. they live with the idea of the 
> survival of the fittest (make the rich richer). they never gave black 
> people compensation for their exploitation (nor any other group). as a 
> matter of fact this is not only US history, but western history in 
> general, but european countries experienced worldwar II and I think they 
> changed their way on communal thinking about racism and so on. there was 
> some shift in common notion and also the wish to keep this notion alive.
> USamericans subconsciously still fear revenge. and even worse, some of 
> them even think it is a good idea to have a small, rich, educated 
> leading elite that controls the big majority of people. they propose a 
> free market, which I see rather as a free slave market, because 
> preconditions are not fair at all for all people. they try to oppress 
> every effort of union building and their voting system is a "the winner 
> takes it all". in europe it took green parties more than 20 years to 
> make it into gouvernments. in the US this is not possible, because with 
> anything less than 50% you are nothing.
> and of course the US has a media that is owned by a handful of people, 
> and an education system including universities that aligns itself more 
> to the needs of companies and corporations than to the values of life.
> that's why "they" still vote for one of the two big parties.
> with the fall of the dollar, the raise of china, some bank crashs, more 
> and more unemployed people, no health care, no social security I think 
> people will start to vote differently within the the next 10-20 years.
> marius.
> 
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--
Patrick Pagano
Sound and Light Technologist
School of Theatre and Dance
University of Florida



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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Chuckk Hubbard]

On 10/10/07, marius schebella <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
>
> >> Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and the
> >> "war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't mean
> >> they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.
> >
> > Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?
>
> why? I think because USamericans are fearful people. they are fearful,
> because they never learned to talk about their problematic history.
> genocide and slavery. they just inherit the guilty consciousness
> unprocessed from generation to generation. therefor they only feel safe,
> when they are protected by a big brother. they live with the idea of the
> survival of the fittest (make the rich richer). they never gave black
> people compensation for their exploitation (nor any other group). as a
> matter of fact this is not only US history, but western history in
> general, but european countries experienced worldwar II and I think they
> changed their way on communal thinking about racism and so on.


Well I've only lived in the US and Romania, but Romania is Europe; and they
are way way behind the US on racism, sexism, gay rights, etc.  The Roma
pretty much all live like animals.
I think your reasons are broad generalizations.  Well, most of them anyway.

-Chuckk


-- 
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Vircy Parker]

Dear  Santa-Claus,

you have regaled to my neighbor a new release of max. You know, I'm a bad
kid and use linux, but in last time I try to be better person. Ok, bad kid
can't have a very stable software is a nature law but could I to have a new
PD. That is my list of new derired features:

-A gui as desiredata, good for clearity. Is the hell of bad kid in white and
black? I know, bad kids dont use colors and pretty features...but in my deep
I have a good heart
-Best suport for open formats. Why Gem dont record the wingem directly in a
video file?
-What about flac (open format)?
-A serious suport for ("free") external plugins of audio like ladspa and
dssi. My oncle csound already use it.
-A layer (sintheziser, manuals, pdpedia, examples,...) focused for artists.
Some dsp designer are really bad musicians and video-artist...is too law of
nature :D
...

I'd like to write a long list, but I know, bad kid often dont achieve good
goals. Ok if this letter is too much for a kid like me, I admit a new
kernel, like all years :(

2007/10/10, Roman Haefeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 18:24 +0200, Jack wrote:
> > I prefer PD with a small GUI, it's better for CPU and GPU.
>
> since when does pd-gui affect gpu? and what would be bad about using a
> most of the time just unused gpu power for a gui?
> i noticed, that cpu based guis in many linux audio programms are the
> main reason, why i think they are much more inferior to many windows
> programs (or probably osx programs). getting a cpu peak each time a
> scrollbar is touched, is just awkward and nothing more.
>
> roman
>
>
>
>
> ___
> Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail:
> http://mail.yahoo.de
>
>
>
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[PD] Gem texturing panoramic video to a hemisphere

[Alex]

I have some panoramic video that I want to use to texture a hemisphere
[or rather, the bottom half of a sphere].

I cannot simply texture the sphere with the video because the warping
is not correct.. it seems that I need some sort of non-rectangular
warping of the image before I texture the object, or a non-rectangular
mapping of the texture onto the sphere.

Any ideas or advice?  Does anyone else have experience working with
panoramic video in Gem?

-Alex

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Re: [PD] linux 64 bit

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Boenn G (CCI) hat gesagt: // Boenn G (CCI) wrote:

> can anybody point me to the right direction here? I tried to compile
> pd on a 64bit machine with Suse 10.2 but failed.

A right direction would be to tell us more about how you failed? Some
error messages etc. Without that, we can only point to the skies.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] abstraction with variable number of inlets/outlets

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Luke Iannini (pd) hat gesagt: // Luke Iannini (pd) wrote:

> On 10/7/07, Frank Barknecht <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Weird in that you'd need [namecanvas] and it's basically not useable,
> > because connections made to dynamically created xlets in the parent
> > patch don't survive saving. See attached patch.
> 
> Frank, please see [nsend/nreceive] that I posted above?  Using [initbang],
> connections survive saving just fine.  I attached a modification of your
> example.

Yes, with [initbang] it works, though standard MSP-Pd doesn't have
initbang. Pd-extended uses a patch from the patch-tracker, that so far
is not included in Miller-Vanilla-Pd. Hopefully it gets into MSP-Pd as
well, together with a closebang, as both can be useful. 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] linux 64 bit

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Post the errors, and more info.

.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 1:32 PM, Boenn G (CCI) wrote:



Hi,

can anybody point me to the right direction here? I tried to  
compile pd on a 64bit machine with Suse 10.2 but failed.


cheers

Georg

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There is no way to peace, peace is the way.   -A.J. Muste


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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[marius schebella]

with the level of virtuosity you also want to demand new levels of 
requirements. it is not about displaying a visualization of the 
programming flow or readability of code, it is only about efficiency and 
user interaction.
for other situations than performance or user interface, this feature is 
not necessary, I have to admit.
marius.

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> A programming environment should encourage people to program in a way 
> that not only works, but also is clearly legible to people who have 
> never seen that program before.  This makes it much easier to reuse and 
> maintain code, and that leads to much less duplicated effort.  That 
> means everyone can benefit from the faster progress.
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Oct 10, 2007, at 10:07 AM, marius schebella wrote:
> 
>> I don't understand people complaining about additional features. you 
>> don't have to use it, if you don't want. but for other people it makes 
>> sense to layout their interface independently from their code.
>> design is so important for a graphical user interface!
>> I heard this so often "I can't share my patch, because only I know, 
>> how to use it". patches without a user interface for the run-mode are 
>> not sharable.
>> I am not talking about patches with only an on/off button...
>> pd is very limited in that regards and I really would wish pd would 
>> make more improvement into that direction.
>> marius.
>>
>> Kevin McCoy wrote:
 The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses 
 existing Pd
 mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to modularize 
 their
 programs.

>>> 100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about this
>>> presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be 
>>> planned into
>>> the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code 
>>> cleaner, use
>>> subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and 
>>> receives
>>> for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I wasn't 
>>> really
>>> excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I 
>>> misunderstand..
>>> km
>>> 
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> 
>  
> 
> 
> Access to computers should be unlimited and total.  - the hacker ethic
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Roman Haefeli]

On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 18:24 +0200, Jack wrote:
> I prefer PD with a small GUI, it's better for CPU and GPU.

since when does pd-gui affect gpu? and what would be bad about using a
most of the time just unused gpu power for a gui?
i noticed, that cpu based guis in many linux audio programms are the
main reason, why i think they are much more inferior to many windows
programs (or probably osx programs). getting a cpu peak each time a
scrollbar is touched, is just awkward and nothing more.

roman




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[PD] linux 64 bit

[Boenn G (CCI)]

Hi,

can anybody point me to the right direction here? I tried to compile pd on a 
64bit machine with Suse 10.2 but failed.

cheers

Georg
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Roman Haefeli]

On Wed, 2007-10-10 at 10:07 -0400, marius schebella wrote:
> I don't understand people complaining about additional features. you 
> don't have to use it, if you don't want. but for other people it makes 
> sense to layout their interface independently from their code.
> design is so important for a graphical user interface!
> I heard this so often "I can't share my patch, because only I know, how 
> to use it". patches without a user interface for the run-mode are not 
> sharable.
> I am not talking about patches with only an on/off button...
> pd is very limited in that regards and I really would wish pd would make 
> more improvement into that direction.
> marius.

have you ever seen a netpd-patch?

roman





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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Ok, I created the NL pdpedia:

http://pdpedia.org/nl/

Tim, you are the "emergency contact".  I don't really know what that  
means, but it seems to be a required field in the setup. Create an  
account in the NL wiki, and I'll make it a "sysop" and "bureaucrat".

Feel free to edit it now, when we do the import, it won't delete  
anything, it'll just add new revisions.  Also, the template import  
will only affect pages that are about objects.

.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 11:52 AM, tim wrote:

> Hi Kristof,
>
>> (tried to send this an hour ago, but seems like it didn't get  
>> through.
>> sorry if you receive it twice)
>>
> I have this too with pd-list, sometimes it takes more than an hour for
> my mail to appear.
>>
 $arguments = "argumenten";
>>
>> maybe "parameters" is better here. if i hear "argumenten" in Dutch i
>> rather think of arguments like in a discussion
>
> I'm not sure about that, because not all 'parameters' can be given as
> creation arguments.
> For example: afaik an [phasor~] can get its frequency from an  
> argument,
> but the phase is a parameter that can only be set from its right  
> inlet.
> To me, 'parameters' also includes things that can only be set via  
> inlets
> while 'argumenten' is more specificaly the stuff you can put in an
> object box to the right of the object name.
> The 'discussie' metaphor is not so wrong: you say 'this object should
> exist' and as arguments you can say more specifically how and  
> why...just
> like when you have an 'argument' over something.
> But that's just my idea...
> My vote is to let the entry $arguments = "argumenten";  as is below,
> feel free to adapt.
>
 $messages = "berichten";   // could be 'boodschappen' too, but that
 sounds a bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.
>>
>> i think "berichten" definitely sounds better
>>
 $dependencies = "vereisten"; // translated freely as
 'requirements' here, maybe there's a better word but it doesnt
 spring to mind now
>>
>> if i read "vereisten" in Dutch i wouldn't think of dependencies the
>> way it's used in computer programming. maybe the literal translation
>> "afhankelijkheden"? sounds a bit ugly but i think it's more clear
>>
 $releaseDate = "uitgebrachtOp";// or 'gepubliceerdOp' ? or
 'vrijgegevenOp? or
>>
>> "datum van uitgave" ? - i think it's better to stick to a noun..
>
> # wikipedia terms
> $stub = "Beginnetje";
> $template = "Sjabloon";
> $category = "Categorie";
> $infobox = "Infobox";
>
> # pdpedia terms
> $objectclass = "Objectklasse";
>
> # page headers
> $inlets = "Ingangen";
> $outlets = "Uitgangen";
> $arguments = "Argumenten";
> $messages = "Berichten";
>
> # infobox
> $name = "Naam";
> $description = "Beschrijving";
> $abbreviation = "Afkorting";
> $library = "Bibliotheek";
> $author = "Auteur";
> $developer = "Ontwikkelaar";
> $releaseVersion = "Versie";
> $releaseDate = "Datum van uitgave";//  too bad 'uitgavedatum'  
> isn't in the dictionary...or is mine incomplete ?
> $dependencies = "Afhankelijkheden";
> $license = "Licentie";
> $website = "Website";
> $programmingLanguage = "Programmeertaal";
> $platform = "Platform";
> $operatingSystem = "Besturingssysteem";
> $language = "Taal";
> $dataType = "Data type";
> $distributions = "Distributies";
>
> Tim
>
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Max Neupert]

Am 10.10.2007 um 12:24 schrieb Jack:

> I prefer PD with a small GUI, it's better for CPU and GPU.
>
> Jack

i wonder why people do things in pd like
$ reducing the number of sliders, toggles and bangs to a minimum, or
$ running two instances of pd for the gui, or writing their gui  
themselves in python, or
$ using -nogui
when its so efficient for CPU and GPU ... or was your comment ironic?


m.

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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Andy Farnell]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 00:18:10 -0400
Chris McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> For example, the British Empire
> covered more land than the Mongolian Empire ever did

Yeah Bitches!



... what? :)

-- 
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[PD] [PD-announce] Correction: Ars Longa - Workshops of digital creation.

[eric genissel]

**Ars Longa organizes throughout the year of the workshops of numerical
creation. Here workshops envisaged from october at december 2007.

http://www.arslonga.info


*PureData, Sensors and Actuators 20 hour 200€ *

This module proposes an initiation into the PureData language,
finalized(worked out) by an artists' international community developers, at
instigation of Miller Puckette (also at the origin of Max / MSP). The
flexibility of this language (reduced to the writing of patchs graphs)
allows to use him(it) in diverse situations where the real-time management
of various types of stream (sound, image / video) is crucial.

http://www.arslonga.info/forma_pd.htm

Date session: 22 to 25 / 10 /2007


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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[B. Bogart]

Wow, its rounded/bubbly  !!!

I just realized the fancy shaded PD icon has open inlets, and closed
outlets, which as far as I know comes from a rendering bug in tk... Not
by design, or maybe I'm wrong...

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> Hmm, looks nice, with lots of nifty features.  But I think a lot of them
> would drive me nuts.  Like the fact that you can move the GUI elements
> around in presentation mode separately from edit mode.
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:
> 
>> http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/08/first-max-5-preview-music-patching-the-next-generation/
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can
> hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] hid object and latency

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

USB HIDs are usually polled every 8ms to 10ms, which is plenty fast  
(have you ever noticed the latency of your mouse pointer or  
clicks?).  I have not seen any reports of latency caused by [hid],  
but I suppose it could be possible.

.hc

On Oct 7, 2007, at 8:30 PM, Warrior Bob wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> First off, I'm new to pd but it seems to be a fantastic environment.
> Big thanks to everyone who's worked on it.
>
> I've run into a problem.  I built a pd patch to translate joystick
> button inputs into MIDI note signals using hid and noteout.  Indeed
> it functions correctly, and there are no logic errors that I can find
> as far as which button triggers which note.  However there is
> noticeable latency, too much to use to play an instrument in realtime.
>
> Using a MIDI keyboard to send the same notes (bypassing pd), I
> encounter no latency that I am able to discern easily.  I believe the
> latency must be related to pd, either in my patch or in the hid
> object, or in my joystick's USB interface (a playstation to USB
> converter).  Is this a known issue in pd or hid, or has anyone
> encountered this before?
>
> If it helps, I am running on a G4 Macintosh, using pd .38.4 extended,
> and using the IAC Driver to get MIDI data between programs.   I have
> hid polling at 1ms intervals, and am using the Ableton Live demo as
> my destination (triggering the Impulse plugin).
>
> I am almost totally convinced that the latency is in the USB
> interface, and therefore there is nothing I can do, but I figured it
> was worth asking.  I spent a while going through the list archives,
> Google, and the documentation but did not find anything.
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Dave H.
>
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

A programming environment should encourage people to program in a way  
that not only works, but also is clearly legible to people who have  
never seen that program before.  This makes it much easier to reuse  
and maintain code, and that leads to much less duplicated effort.   
That means everyone can benefit from the faster progress.

.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 10:07 AM, marius schebella wrote:

> I don't understand people complaining about additional features.  
> you don't have to use it, if you don't want. but for other people  
> it makes sense to layout their interface independently from their  
> code.
> design is so important for a graphical user interface!
> I heard this so often "I can't share my patch, because only I know,  
> how to use it". patches without a user interface for the run-mode  
> are not sharable.
> I am not talking about patches with only an on/off button...
> pd is very limited in that regards and I really would wish pd would  
> make more improvement into that direction.
> marius.
>
> Kevin McCoy wrote:
>>> The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses  
>>> existing Pd
>>> mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to  
>>> modularize their
>>> programs.
>>>
>> 100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about  
>> this
>> presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be  
>> planned into
>> the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code  
>> cleaner, use
>> subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and  
>> receives
>> for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I  
>> wasn't really
>> excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I  
>> misunderstand..
>> km
>> - 
>> ---
>> ___
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Re: [PD] abstraction with variable number of inlets/outlets

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Sat, 6 Oct 2007, Mirko Maier wrote:

i wonder if it's possible to write an abstraction that has a variable 
number of inlets or outlets, given as argument.

i've tried it with messages like
;pd-[argument file name] inlet 10 10
and so on, but then you always get asked if you want to discard changes, cause 
of course you shouldn't save these changes in the abstraction.
impossible?


afaik, you'd need [initbang], but that object class has not yet been 
introduced in the main pd, so the best you could do is decide of a maximum 
number of inlets or outlets, create that many, and use [loadbang] to 
delete any extraneous inlets or outlets. If you try to create inlets using 
[loadbang], they will be created too late when you reload the patch, such 
that every patch that has connections to such objects will load with 
"connection failed" errors that result in missing wires.


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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Steffen Juul]

On 10/10/2007, at 16.07, marius schebella wrote:

> I don't understand people complaining about additional features. you
> don't have to use it, if you don't want.

Minimal or to-the-point-ness of an application can be very desirable.  
To illustrate I've for the same reasons used EevilWM not Gnome/KDE/ 
Fluxbox.

> but for other people it makes sense to layout their interface  
> independently from their code.

That is also doable in Pd as is with fx. send/receive or OSC. One can  
even make a custom GUI in another environment and make it  
communicates with a (set of) Pd patch(es).

> design is so important for a graphical user interface!

Agreed.

As i see it it's the choice of the programer (ie. Pd user) how the  
interface should be. There are a lot of artistic motivation in that  
choice.


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Re: [PD] G3 ppc support?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Unfortunately, I don't remember which is it.  trying going back thru  
the test release.  The back links are at the bototm of the page:

http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html

It might be pretty old...

.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 10:59 AM, altern wrote:

> but then i need to compile it on the mac ...
>
> what about the latest PD release that supported G3 architecture? I  
> could probably use that, i just need it for small simple tests.
>
> enrike
>
>
> Hans-Christoph Steiner(e)k dio:
>> The current default builds are for G4s and newer, since Altivec  
>> support can make a really big difference.  I think I can make a G3  
>> build of the final release.
>> Or if you want to try the build, trying getting the pd-extended- 
>> release sources via rsync:
>> http://puredata.org/docs/developer/GettingPdSource
>> .hc
>> On Oct 9, 2007, at 1:52 PM, altern wrote:
>>> hi
>>>
>>> I use my old mac laptop few times a year to test/build things.  
>>> Today I
>>> found that PD does not work any more, I get this error into  
>>> pd.crash.log
>>>
>>> Link (dylid) error:
>>> incompatible cpu-subtype
>>>
>>> it is an old G3 ppc iBook 500mhz. is this type of CPU not  
>>> supported any
>>> more?
>>>
>>> I tried the PD extended version
>>> Pd-0.39.3-extended-rc5-macosx104-powerpc downloaded from hans  
>>> website
>>> but also an older version 0.39.2 extended RC1
>>>
>>> any one had a similar problem?
>>>
>>> enrike
>>>
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>> --- Mistrust authority - promote decentralization.  - the  
>> hacker ethic




 


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Re: [PD] about sexism

[Ken Restivo]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 10:34:30PM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> ola,
> 
> i'm sorry to be boring on this list,
> but here i read everyday terms as :
> 'wet dream', 'gang bang' , ..

Women have wet dreams too. It's been studied and confirmed since the 1950's, 
IIRC.

"Gang bang" could possibly be considered offensive, although sometimes they are 
consensual and gender-balanced (well, here in California, anyway).

> 
> and i understand why some girls stay away from this list

It could be because you are calling them "girls". 

Any female over the age of majority (18 in California) is not a girl :-)

> 
> sorry, i'm chocked sometimes,
> by the 'between men' macho jokes...
> even me.
> 

Don't sweat it. It's probably fine as long as you're not doing this:
http://xkcd.com/322/

- -ken
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHDP3Ie8HF+6xeOIcRArb5AKDbkaUw/OBGFOX2HnDzSpy7vFwyhwCfYk+H
sQVxeZG0JJYCGZzIIlGnB/o=
=J8Qz
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [PD] about sexism

[Ken Restivo]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, Oct 08, 2007 at 01:14:46PM +0200, Thomas Mayer wrote:
> 
> and gang bang can mean [t b b b b b b]
> 

+1 Funny

- -ken
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFHDP1Xe8HF+6xeOIcRAnBXAKD8D3kPdrPFdqg8o/eMkTtmcRH8pwCgxEC5
iUQAkaZ868TUYEfl1YDcm+s=
=83JT
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Jack]

I prefer PD with a small GUI, it's better for CPU and GPU.

Jack


Le 10 oct. 07 à 16:07, marius schebella a écrit :

> I don't understand people complaining about additional features. you
> don't have to use it, if you don't want. but for other people it makes
> sense to layout their interface independently from their code.
> design is so important for a graphical user interface!
> I heard this so often "I can't share my patch, because only I know,  
> how
> to use it". patches without a user interface for the run-mode are not
> sharable.
> I am not talking about patches with only an on/off button...
> pd is very limited in that regards and I really would wish pd would  
> make
> more improvement into that direction.
> marius.
>
> Kevin McCoy wrote:
>>> The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses  
>>> existing Pd
>>> mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to  
>>> modularize their
>>> programs.
>>>
>>
>> 100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about  
>> this
>> presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be  
>> planned into
>> the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code  
>> cleaner, use
>> subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and  
>> receives
>> for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I  
>> wasn't really
>> excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I  
>> misunderstand..
>>
>> km
>>
>>
>>
>> - 
>> ---
>>
>> ___
>> PD-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ 
>> listinfo/pd-list
>
>
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[PD] [PD-announce] Ars Longa - Workshops of digital creation.

[eric genissel]

*Pure Dated, Sensors and Actuators - 20 hour *

This module proposes an initiation into the Pure use of the language Dated,
finalized(worked out) by an artists' international community developers, at
instigation of Miller Puckette (also at the origin of Max / MSP). The
flexibility of this language (reduced to the writing of patchs graphs)
allows to use him(it) in diverse situations where the real-time management
of various types of stream (sound, image / video) is crucial.

http://www.arslonga.info/forma_pd.htm

Date session: 22 to 25 / 10 / 2007


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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[Oded Ben-Tal]

> which is ok, [hsv2rgb] is supposed to sit in the same directory as 
> Gem.pd_darwin;
> ah i remember that [import] doesn't like that...
>

Actually Gem.pd_darwin got installed in
{..}/Resources/extra

while the hsv2rgb.pd file was installed at:
{..}/Resources/extra/Gem/

so they aren't in the same direcory.

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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

hi

tim wrote:
> Hi Kristof,
> 
>> (tried to send this an hour ago, but seems like it didn't get through. 
>> sorry if you receive it twice)
>>
> I have this too with pd-list, sometimes it takes more than an hour for 
> my mail to appear.


hey guys, i hope you are aware that a mailing-list is an asynchronous 
medium.
mails can take several hours to be delivered. this is _normal_ 
behaviour. just because emails often go through faster than that, does 
not mean that you should rely on that. after all, it's a complicated 
internet.



so if you are interested, where the delivery slows down, you should have 
a look at the email-headers.
e.g.::


Delivery-date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 15:05:50 +0200

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this tells us, that kristof sent his email at 11:34, that it was relayed 
within virtually zero time to hoboe1bl1.telenet-ops.be, where it waited 
for 3.5hours to be delivered to iem.kug.ac.at
there are various reasons why this happens: e.g.
- server load: if the sending server has a huge queue of emails, your 
email will be delivered after all these are delivered
- server load: if the receiving server is currently under heavy load, it 
may not be able to immediately accept the email (it's the age of spam...)
- anti spam measurements: to drastically reduce the amount of spam, 
greylisting is an established technique; this means that the receiver 
will not immediately accept an email; the sender will have to retry 
after a certain period (which spammers often don't!); this however 
means, that we are back to the start, the senders queue has to be worked 
through again,...
the iem is happy to use greylisting

finally, the mailing list server took another 15minutes to send the 
email; after all pd-list has more than 1000 subscribers...


mfa.sdr
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[tim]

Hi Kristof,

> (tried to send this an hour ago, but seems like it didn't get through. 
> sorry if you receive it twice)
>
I have this too with pd-list, sometimes it takes more than an hour for 
my mail to appear.
>
>> > $arguments = "argumenten";
>
> maybe "parameters" is better here. if i hear "argumenten" in Dutch i 
> rather think of arguments like in a discussion

I'm not sure about that, because not all 'parameters' can be given as 
creation arguments.
For example: afaik an [phasor~] can get its frequency from an argument, 
but the phase is a parameter that can only be set from its right inlet.
To me, 'parameters' also includes things that can only be set via inlets 
while 'argumenten' is more specificaly the stuff you can put in an 
object box to the right of the object name.
The 'discussie' metaphor is not so wrong: you say 'this object should 
exist' and as arguments you can say more specifically how and why...just 
like when you have an 'argument' over something.
But that's just my idea...
My vote is to let the entry $arguments = "argumenten";  as is below, 
feel free to adapt.

>> > $messages = "berichten";   // could be 'boodschappen' too, but that
>> > sounds a bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.
>
> i think "berichten" definitely sounds better
>
>> > $dependencies = "vereisten"; // translated freely as
>> > 'requirements' here, maybe there's a better word but it doesnt
>> > spring to mind now
>
> if i read "vereisten" in Dutch i wouldn't think of dependencies the 
> way it's used in computer programming. maybe the literal translation 
> "afhankelijkheden"? sounds a bit ugly but i think it's more clear
>
>> > $releaseDate = "uitgebrachtOp";// or 'gepubliceerdOp' ? or
>> > 'vrijgegevenOp? or
>
> "datum van uitgave" ? - i think it's better to stick to a noun..

# wikipedia terms
$stub = "Beginnetje";
$template = "Sjabloon";
$category = "Categorie";
$infobox = "Infobox";

# pdpedia terms
$objectclass = "Objectklasse";

# page headers
$inlets = "Ingangen";
$outlets = "Uitgangen";
$arguments = "Argumenten";
$messages = "Berichten";

# infobox
$name = "Naam";
$description = "Beschrijving";
$abbreviation = "Afkorting";
$library = "Bibliotheek";
$author = "Auteur";
$developer = "Ontwikkelaar";
$releaseVersion = "Versie";
$releaseDate = "Datum van uitgave";//  too bad 'uitgavedatum' isn't in the 
dictionary...or is mine incomplete ?
$dependencies = "Afhankelijkheden";
$license = "Licentie";
$website = "Website";
$programmingLanguage = "Programmeertaal";
$platform = "Platform";
$operatingSystem = "Besturingssysteem";
$language = "Taal";
$dataType = "Data type";
$distributions = "Distributies";

Tim

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Re: [PD] gem problem

[chris clepper]

I tested your patch here on an Intel Mac and it works like I think it should
work.  Two of the layers are partially transparent based on the individual R
G and B values.  Can you post a screen capture of the working and
non-working output?

On 10/8/07, Oded Ben-Tal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hi,
>
> I am finding that gem is doing things very differently in two versions.
> The
> attached patch is slightly simplified from what I am running but the
> essence
> is running 3 versions of the same movie on 3 'screens' using
> [pix_threshold]
> and [pix_alpha] to selectively hide elements of the pictures at the front.
> This works fine when I use pd-extended0.38 When I try it with
> pd-extended0.39 (from http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html ) it doesn't
> work. The pictures on the front 'screens' are all turned blueish but the
> selections aren't removed.
> I am running this on an intel Mac OSX10.4
> I would be happy to stick with 0.38 but other things aren't working
> correctly
> with it, and I can't even run two versions in parallel because hans'
> version
> handles libraries internally, and gets confused when there is a preference
> file like the older version wants :(
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks
> Oded
>
> ___
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> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~oded
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Martin Peach]

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
>
>On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
>
>>It also seems to me that hacker culture uses lots of terms 
>>tongue-in-cheek, and that a reference to Mongolian hordes may even be, in 
>>some folks' minds, a jab at the Westerners who coined the term.
>
>Man. I just said. "Mongolian horde" is a term most likely coined by 
>Mongolian hordes. The term has been adapted to fit many languages and 
>eventually reached English.
>
Yes, 'nigger' is derived from a word meaning 'black', so where's the 
problem? Words change their meaning over time. I would bet most english 
speakers don't know the origin of 'horde' and just use it to denote 'a large 
number of unpleasant entities', as in 'hordes of cockroaches'. 'Barbarian' 
is another word that didn't mean anything bad at first...and 'windows' ;)

Martin



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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> 
> Actually, [import Gem] won't work since it'll find the Gem.pd_darwin 

which is ok, [hsv2rgb] is supposed to sit in the same directory as 
Gem.pd_darwin;
ah i remember that [import] doesn't like that...

> first.  I don't think it really works to have a Gem.pd_* and a folder 
> called Gem.  I think for this to work ok, the folder should be called 
> something else and made into a libdir.  Or even better, make all of Gem 
> a libdir and include the abstractions in that libdir for a unified 
> library called "gem".  :D

it is more or less a libdir, with only one dll and several abstractions.
i don't understand why it should be called "something else" (the quotes 
are here to quote you, not to imply that it should by literally called 
'something else')


fmasd.r
IOhannes


PS: btw, the library is called "Gem" and not "gem"

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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[marius schebella]

Mathieu Bouchard wrote:

>> Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and the 
>> "war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't mean 
>> they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.
> 
> Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?

why? I think because USamericans are fearful people. they are fearful, 
because they never learned to talk about their problematic history. 
genocide and slavery. they just inherit the guilty consciousness 
unprocessed from generation to generation. therefor they only feel safe, 
when they are protected by a big brother. they live with the idea of the 
survival of the fittest (make the rich richer). they never gave black 
people compensation for their exploitation (nor any other group). as a 
matter of fact this is not only US history, but western history in 
general, but european countries experienced worldwar II and I think they 
changed their way on communal thinking about racism and so on. there was 
some shift in common notion and also the wish to keep this notion alive.
USamericans subconsciously still fear revenge. and even worse, some of 
them even think it is a good idea to have a small, rich, educated 
leading elite that controls the big majority of people. they propose a 
free market, which I see rather as a free slave market, because 
preconditions are not fair at all for all people. they try to oppress 
every effort of union building and their voting system is a "the winner 
takes it all". in europe it took green parties more than 20 years to 
make it into gouvernments. in the US this is not possible, because with 
anything less than 50% you are nothing.
and of course the US has a media that is owned by a handful of people, 
and an education system including universities that aligns itself more 
to the needs of companies and corporations than to the values of life.
that's why "they" still vote for one of the two big parties.
with the fall of the dollar, the raise of china, some bank crashs, more 
and more unemployed people, no health care, no social security I think 
people will start to vote differently within the the next 10-20 years.
marius.

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Re: [PD] G3 ppc support?

[altern]

but then i need to compile it on the mac ...

what about the latest PD release that supported G3 architecture? I could 
probably use that, i just need it for small simple tests.

enrike


Hans-Christoph Steiner(e)k dio:
> 
> The current default builds are for G4s and newer, since Altivec support 
> can make a really big difference.  I think I can make a G3 build of the 
> final release.
> 
> Or if you want to try the build, trying getting the pd-extended-release 
> sources via rsync:
> 
> http://puredata.org/docs/developer/GettingPdSource
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Oct 9, 2007, at 1:52 PM, altern wrote:
> 
>> hi
>>
>> I use my old mac laptop few times a year to test/build things. Today I
>> found that PD does not work any more, I get this error into pd.crash.log
>>
>> Link (dylid) error:
>> incompatible cpu-subtype
>>
>> it is an old G3 ppc iBook 500mhz. is this type of CPU not supported any
>> more?
>>
>> I tried the PD extended version
>> Pd-0.39.3-extended-rc5-macosx104-powerpc downloaded from hans website
>> but also an older version 0.39.2 extended RC1
>>
>> any one had a similar problem?
>>
>> enrike
>>
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> 
>  
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 


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Re: [PD] G3 ppc support?

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

The current default builds are for G4s and newer, since Altivec  
support can make a really big difference.  I think I can make a G3  
build of the final release.

Or if you want to try the build, trying getting the pd-extended- 
release sources via rsync:

http://puredata.org/docs/developer/GettingPdSource

.hc

On Oct 9, 2007, at 1:52 PM, altern wrote:

> hi
>
> I use my old mac laptop few times a year to test/build things. Today I
> found that PD does not work any more, I get this error into  
> pd.crash.log
>
> Link (dylid) error:
> incompatible cpu-subtype
>
> it is an old G3 ppc iBook 500mhz. is this type of CPU not supported  
> any
> more?
>
> I tried the PD extended version
> Pd-0.39.3-extended-rc5-macosx104-powerpc downloaded from hans website
> but also an older version 0.39.2 extended RC1
>
> any one had a similar problem?
>
> enrike
>
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Re: [PD] PD-extended Win32 msgfile bug

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

You should post it to the bug tracker

http://puredata.org/dev/bugtracker

msgfile is from zexy, so I don't know anything about it.

.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 8:56 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:


Hi Hans,

Found an insect in PD extended ;-)
error: msgfile_read: unable to lseek

h... :-#

Ed


Lone Shark "Aviation" out now on http://www.pyramidtransmissions.com
http://www.myspace.com/sharktracks

For ideas on reducing your carbon footprint visit Yahoo! For Good  
this month.






 



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during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man  
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Re: [PD] representing classes and selectors in the wiki

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 9, 2007, at 12:57 PM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

> Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>> On Oct 8, 2007, at 6:00 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
>>> and how can i find the different counters?
>> Searching for "counter" works pretty well (unfortunately, "Go" is  
>> the  default when you hit enter):
>
> i see. what does "Go" mean?
>
>> http://wiki.puredata.info/en/Special:Search?  
>> search=counter&fulltext=Search
>> Here's an example of how it can work:
>> http://wiki.puredata.info/en/counter
>
> ah ok, now the disambiguation is here. last time i tried it was  
> only the cyclone object, and the "search" (or was it "go"?) just  
> returned that page, so i only got that object.
>
>> http://wiki.puredata.info/en/cyclone/counter
>
> ah cool.
> i guess creating these pages and redirecting to _ 
> () has to be done manually?
>
> mfg.adsr
> IOhannes

I can be done via a script and an import.  Currently, you need ssh  
access to run an import.  Since pdpedia is on an IDMI/Poly server,  
IDMI accounts have shell access, but I can't give out others.  That  
means Marius and I have import access.

.hc


 


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meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds,  
and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits.  - Martin  
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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 10, 2007, at 6:01 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

> Oded Ben-Tal wrote:
>> It seems my Gem is missing [yuv2rgb] (and rgb2yuv ).
>> A bit of history: I'm using pd0.39-extended from at.or.at, but that
>> version of Gem had problems (see previous exchanges for the  
>> details) I
>> replaced the pd.gem_drawin file from a more recent CVS version and  
>> that
>> fixed many problems. I am running it on a macbook, osx10.4
>> [rgb2hsv] does exist.
>>
>
> these are now abstractions, you have to add the path were the
> Gem.pd_darwin lives to pd's search paths.
>
> the path is usually /extra/Gem/
>
> [import Gem] should do the trick as well...
>
> fma.sdr
> IOhannes

Actually, [import Gem] won't work since it'll find the Gem.pd_darwin  
first.  I don't think it really works to have a Gem.pd_* and a folder  
called Gem.  I think for this to work ok, the folder should be called  
something else and made into a libdir.  Or even better, make all of  
Gem a libdir and include the abstractions in that libdir for a  
unified library called "gem".  :D

.hc


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Re: [PD] Funky dependency on Debian PPC

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Hmm, that shouldn't be too hard to fix, I think... could you file a  
bug report in the tracker?


http://puredata.org/dev/bugtracker

Thanks,

.hc

On Oct 9, 2007, at 9:48 PM, Myo wrote:


Hello everyone,

sorry that you have to hear from me again so soon, but I uncovered  
something funky when trying to install extended (version's >=  
0.39.3) on Debian PPC. I get a dependency for 'libavifile', which,  
isn't available for PPC \= |  is this a bug in the installer, or am  
I missing something? I get the same result from the testing .deb's  
and the nightly auto builds.


should point out that extended 0.39.2-rc5 is installed and working  
fine for some time now.


thanks
cory



p.s. I never did figure out the freebob thing. it seems to "work",  
but I ran out of free time before I figured it out how to configure  
it.

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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

The one part of presentation that I was intrigued by is the idea of  
separating the interface from the implementation. I think it's  
interesting to explore the idea, I just think that having the only  
connection be that little fade effect when switching is not really a  
strong enough connection.  It would only be at all effective with a  
handful of elements, more than that, I think it would become hard to  
track.

.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 9:58 AM, Andy Farnell wrote:

>
> I'm a bit torn on this. I actually like the concept, but you're right,
> like all good things that make life easy they tend to erode discipline
> and structure. The patch messy and sweep it all under the rug
> philosophy is probably very appealing to many.
>
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2007 21:27:47 -0400
> "Kevin McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>> The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses  
>>> existing Pd
>>> mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to  
>>> modularize their
>>> programs.
>>>
>>
>> 100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about  
>> this
>> presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be  
>> planned into
>> the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code  
>> cleaner, use
>> subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and  
>> receives
>> for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I  
>> wasn't really
>> excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I  
>> misunderstand..
>>
>> km
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Use the source
>
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Re: [PD] gem problem

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Pd-extended is using the latest CVS files.  Sounds like a bug, please  
add it to the tracker.

.hc

On Oct 8, 2007, at 12:40 PM, marius schebella wrote:

> I just found a working version at http://gem.iem.at/releases/0.91
> the version gem-CVS20070605-OSX-i686-bin-doc.tar.gz
> strange, the pd-extended version is newer, but not working. so maybe
> pd-extended is not using the latest cvs files???
> marius.
>
> marius schebella wrote:
>> which gem version do you have, that can handle macs uyvy format
>> correctly? I tried old versions, but had not luck.
>>
>> anyway, go to your Applications folder and right click on the pd-app.
>> chose "show contents" and then look for Gem.pd_darwin (should be in
>> resources/extra. make a backup of that version (just in case) and put
>> your old gem there instead.
>> marius.
>>
>> Oded Ben-Tal wrote:
 the color problem is a bug in the current gem version (I have the
 same problem). You can try to take the old gemversion you were  
 using
 before and replace the buggy one.
>>>
>>> Is there a simple way to take Gem from the pd-extended instalation
>>> that where it works, and stick it in the Pd-extended instalation  
>>> where
>>> it doesn't? I was looking through the directory where pd is intalled
>>> and couldn't find an obvious place
>>>  (I'm very new to mac so I'm still struggling with where  
>>> everything is
>>> and how to make changes. I looked for compiled versions of Gem and
>>> there aren't many for mac, and I can't even see which version of Gem
>>> is the one that's working because loading the old pd creates  
>>> problems
>>> with new pd).
>>>
 the problem with demux is, that it is an abbreviation for
 demultiplex, and
>>>
>>> I don' think I am using demux in that patch.
>>>
>>> Oded
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [PD] representing classes and selectors in the wiki

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 9, 2007, at 4:56 PM, Enrique Erne wrote:

>
>>> Searching for "counter" works pretty well (unfortunately, "Go" is  
>>> the
>>> default when you hit enter):
>>
>> i see. what does "Go" mean?
>
>
> there are two submit buttons underneath the search input field.  
> "Go" directly
> displays the site with the highest ranking, like googles "i'm  
> feeling lucky".
> "Search" shows all search results as the following link:
> http://wiki.puredata.info/en/Special:Search? 
> search=counter&fulltext=Search
>
> when hitting enter the first appearing submit button will be  
> submitted. in order
> to change "Go" and "Search" the two buttons should be switched in  
> the html
> structure. if somebody points me to the template i can change that.  
> also the wiki
> might provide an option to switch the default action.
>
> eni

My guess is that this is controlled by a php configuration option in  
mediawiki.  I couldn't find such an option though.

.hc


 


Terrorism is not an enemy.  It cannot be defeated.  It's a tactic.   
It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and  
expect we're going to win that war.  We're not going to win the war  
on terrorism.- retired U.S. Army general, William Odom



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Re: [PD] click interface hack??

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

Yeah, it would be nice to have...

.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 8:25 AM, Nikola Jeremic wrote:


hi everybody
same here, would love to have it too...
it is also complicated to connect object that are far away, and it  
is not always wise to use s~ and r~

greets
n.

On 10/10/07, Derek Holzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Kevin,

it's a nice idea, since dragging is the thing that gives you
carpal-tunnel syndrome the worst! Very un-ergonomic motion, if ever  
one
was invented my only way around it is to patch with a Wacom  
tablet.


I'd support this as a feature request.

best,
d.

Kevin McCoy wrote:
> Hi list,
>
> Has anyone done a hack so instead of clicking and dragging patch  
cords
> (which is kind of awkward still), you can click an outlet and  
then it

> starts the patch cord and then move the mouse freehand to the
> destination, click an inlet and it connects them that way?  To  
cancel

> the patch cord you can just click on the blank canvas.

--
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macumbista

---Oblique Strategy # 103:
"Left channel, right channel, centre channel"

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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates (French)

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

On Oct 10, 2007, at 7:56 AM, Olivier Heinry wrote:

>
>>
>> Wikipedia FR uses "ébauche" for stub and "Modèle" for template:
>>
>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:%C3%89bauche
>
>
> Let's keep "ébauche" then.
>
>>
>> And "infobox" seems to be a universal term in Wikipedia:
>>
>> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:Infobox
>
> Well, in plain French, it would rather read "boîte d'information". In
> current French: "Boîte d'info". Most people would understand "Infobox"
> though. Should we stick to the choices made by Wikipedia, although
> they're not always "correct" (in the sense they sometimes merely
> copy/paste the existing English word, counting on the fact the average
> francophone know enough of English to complete the scheme eg.  
> "infobox",
> thus expanding "Franglish") or compete  and try to forge something  
> both
> plain French and adequate?
> There have been already a few successful attempts in the latter way:
> courriel, ordinateur, redingote...
>
> ++
> O.

Ultimately, which words are chosen are up to those who want to  
contribute to that language site.  Using wikipedia terms has a big  
advantage since there will be a whole community with documentation,  
policy, etc. that can be directly applied.

.hc



 


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, john saylor wrote:

On 10/10/07, Mathieu Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?

not all of us do!
there are still some of us on the lunatic fringe


No, I don't mean lunatic fringe. I mean especially parties that are not 
considered fringe and especially not lunatic.


In both Canada and Québec it's easy to get widespread coverage for the 3 
top parties, and then 5 parties have at least 3% of the total vote each. 
But that's not an isolated case - Europe has had that for a long time too.


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Re: [PD] representing classes and selectors in the wiki

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

Enrique Erne wrote:

there are two submit buttons underneath the search input field. "Go" directly
displays the site with the highest ranking, like googles "i'm feeling lucky".

ah thanks; i equally never understood the meaning of the "i'm feeling
lucky" button on google :-)


It started as a realisation of how good google.stanford.edu was at sorting 
search results, whereas the leading engine of then, Altavista, was barely 
sorting them at all. The button name probably started from a sentence like 
"if you're just a bit lucky, the 1st search result is exactly what you 
wanted"... (in Altavista, you had to be very lucky instead.)


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[john saylor]

hey

On 10/10/07, Mathieu Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?

not all of us do!

there are still some of us on the lunatic fringe although you won't
hear about any of it in the corporate media. and although the anti-war
movement keeps growing the two big money political parties don't want
to touch it [because the war is all about big money] ...

this country [usa] needs an enema! [or at least an impeachment]

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Mathieu Bouchard]

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:


I'm not sure which culture is "our" culture,


In this context, it would be all the west-european, canadian, australian, 
nz, usa, ... mostly that.


It also seems to me that hacker culture uses lots of terms 
tongue-in-cheek, and that a reference to Mongolian hordes may even be, 
in some folks' minds, a jab at the Westerners who coined the term.


Man. I just said. "Mongolian horde" is a term most likely coined by 
Mongolian hordes. The term has been adapted to fit many languages and 
eventually reached English.


Americans today make ironic references to the "Axis of Evil" and the 
"war on terror" and "homeland security" all the time.  It doesn't mean 
they buy it, even if the media makes it seem that way.


Yeah but why do they still vote for one of the two big parties?

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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[marius schebella]

I don't understand people complaining about additional features. you 
don't have to use it, if you don't want. but for other people it makes 
sense to layout their interface independently from their code.
design is so important for a graphical user interface!
I heard this so often "I can't share my patch, because only I know, how 
to use it". patches without a user interface for the run-mode are not 
sharable.
I am not talking about patches with only an on/off button...
pd is very limited in that regards and I really would wish pd would make 
more improvement into that direction.
marius.

Kevin McCoy wrote:
>> The Pd graph-on-parent makes more sense IMHO because it uses existing Pd
>> mechanisms for encapsulation and encourages patchers to modularize their
>> programs.
>>
> 
> 100% agreed, that is why I thought "umm... what's so special about this
> presentation mode?" when I saw that page.  To me that should be planned into
> the program.  If your patches are messy for performance, code cleaner, use
> subpatches, etc, no excuses for that as far as I see.  Sends and receives
> for gui objects have been there since I started..  I guess I wasn't really
> excited about any of that stuff :) but then again maybe I misunderstand..
> 
> km
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] pd-extended 39-3 libraries load

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

I haven't been able to reproduce this problem.  All of the libraries  
should be loaded by default.  This is how it worked for me on the two  
WinXP machines I've tested on.


Perhaps there is something stuck in the registry that is causing  
problems.  Try deleting the Pd registry settings.  Delete this whole  
folder:


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Pd

Careful!  You can really screw things up if you delete the wrong  
thing.  Then try reinstalling using this version:


http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2007-10-10/Pd-0.39.3- 
extended-windowsxp-i386.exe


If that doesn't work, please file a bug report with as much  
information as possible.


.hc

On Oct 10, 2007, at 5:05 AM, Anders Friberg wrote:

I had for a long time similar struggles related to missing objects  
in pd-extended.
To use the colon as separator does not seem to work on Windows -  
which makes sense since paths usually contain a colon as well.
And if I want to use all libs in extended I have to list 51 paths  
since that is the number of folders in /pd/extra/!
And it is very confusing (especially for a beginner) when the help  
patches in the browser do not work from the beginning.
It would be wonderful to have a "working out-of-the-box" solution  
to this problem. (and yes - I clicked the reg file)
pd-extended is a great effort and if this issue can be solved it  
would improve the usability enormously.

/Anders

Max Neupert wrote:

Am 07.10.2007 um 07:12 schrieb Luiz Naveda:


Nowdays I have had a strange problem. I have my own library which
depends on some other libraris from PD extended. When I have to
install it in other computers, I put my folders in 2 of the 10 slot-
path but normally it misses 3 or 4 other libraries, so I start to
look for the missing objects and rewrite all missing libraries in
the 10 slots...

to add more entries you may use the : as a separator as described  
here:


http://puredata.org/docs/tutorials/TipsAndTricks#add-more-entries-to-
the-path-and-library-dialogs

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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Hans-Christoph Steiner]

This is the stuff that I think is much more interesting, it's the  
stuff that doesn't make for sexy videos, but actually improves your  
life:


http://www.cycling74.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2007/9/28/105551/882

"Let me give you just one example of what I'm talking about. In Max  
4.x there was something we call the "quick reference" menu. You might  
not even know about it because it involves clicking on an object with  
two keys held down (and naturally, I can't remember which ones they  
are right now!). We've improved this feature in a number of ways.  
First, to see the menu, all you have to do is click on the inlet of  
the object. A menu of all the messages and attributes for the object  
will pop up. And when you mouse over a message name, a description of  
what it does appears taken directly from the Max reference  
documentation. Select the message, and Max creates a message box  
containing the message name already connected to the object's inlet. "


This is an interesting change, but it seems to be another hack on the  
already whacked Max/Pd symbol/list handling:


"You no longer need to prepend a message with "symbol" in order to  
send it to a message box."


.hc

On Oct 9, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:



I understand that they are trying to separate the interface from  
the implementation.  The problem with that technique is there isn't  
a clear way to tell which item in presentation mode belongs to  
which item in edit mode.I can see having to click back and  
forth between presentation and edit modes to figure out which GUI  
element is attached where.  It'll only get worse with more  
complicated patches.


Max/Pd are graphical languages, so such things should be  
represented visually, whenever possible.  I don't see how the two  
different positions are represented, besides the little moving fade  
between the two modes.


I think the "hide patch coords" function also has similar issues,  
it basically reinforces bad habits.   The Pd graph-on-parent makes  
more sense IMHO because it uses existing Pd mechanisms for  
encapsulation and encourages patchers to modularize their  
programs.  GOP definitely needs work, but I think it's a better path.


On a positive note, the new file browser stuff looks really handy.   
The drag-n-drop message creation looks nifty, but I am not sure how  
useful it is.  Maybe yes, maybe no.


.hc

On Oct 9, 2007, at 3:15 PM, vade wrote:

Hans, thats the whole point of presentation mode, to separate the  
patching logic from the presentation!


you can organize your gui elements in the code in places that make  
sense and follow the logical flow of the patch, and then present  
them in the UI however you choose.


I am so glad they finally listened to Max users screaming for PD's  
keyboard shortcuts for instantiation of objects method. Will make  
patching much faster for us Max users.



On Oct 9, 2007, at 2:55 PM, altern wrote:


these links interesting as well.

An article by Zicarelly:
http://www.cycling74.com/?op=displaystory;sid=2007/9/28/105551/882

and videos showing the new max:
http://www.cycling74.com/story/2007/10/5/91222/9559


Hans-Christoph Steiner(e)k dio:


Hmm, looks nice, with lots of nifty features.  But I think a lot  
of them
would drive me nuts.  Like the fact that you can move the GUI  
elements

around in presentation mode separately from edit mode.

.hc

On Oct 8, 2007, at 9:53 PM, Thomas O Fredericks wrote:

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/10/08/first-max-5-preview- 
music-patching-the-next-generation/

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--- 
-


You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if  
you can

hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie




--- 
-


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v a d e //

www.vade.info
abstrakt.vade.info



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and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits.  - Martin  
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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[kristof lauwers]

(tried to send this an hour ago, but seems like it didn't get 
through. sorry if you receive it twice)


Hi Tim & all!

my 50c on the Duch translations you proposed..

> > $arguments = "argumenten";

maybe "parameters" is better here. if i hear "argumenten" in Dutch i 
rather think of arguments like in a discussion

> > $messages = "berichten";   // could be 'boodschappen' too, but that
> > sounds a bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.

i think "berichten" definitely sounds better

> > $dependencies = "vereisten"; // translated freely as
> > 'requirements' here, maybe there's a better word but it doesnt
> > spring to mind now

if i read "vereisten" in Dutch i wouldn't think of dependencies the 
way it's used in computer programming. maybe the literal translation 
"afhankelijkheden"? sounds a bit ugly but i think it's more clear

> > $releaseDate = "uitgebrachtOp";// or 'gepubliceerdOp' ? or
> > 'vrijgegevenOp? or

"datum van uitgave" ? - i think it's better to stick to a noun..

> > $programmingLanguage = "programmeerTaal";
> > $operatingSystem = "besturingsSysteem";
> > $dataType = "dataType";
>
>"camel case" isn't used in wikipedia (unless that's a Dutch spelling
>convention).  In English, following wikipedia, these are:

it are all existing words which you normally write i one word in 
dutch, so you can just drop the camelcase..

groetjes,

Kristof





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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] hat gesagt: // [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Interesting. I like thie minimal performance GUI approach also. I am
> curious about your big red Toggle though - what does it do? Global audio
> toggle, or something more... or is that a secret ;-)

It's not a secret: It just sends "bang" to a receiver called
$0-start. ;)

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Oded Ben-Tal hat gesagt: // Oded Ben-Tal wrote:

> 2) This is just a stupid mac problem: When I look at the path settings in 
> pd I only see a partial list (about 10 lines) how do I add another one, 
> witout removing any of the existing paths? (when I tried replacing a 
> existing entry that I don't use, and save the setting, it seems it only 
> saved the first few entries visible on the screen and removed a dozen or 
> so additional ones hidden from view).

Seperate additional paths with a colon "path1:path2" etc. 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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Re: [PD] colrgrid / GOP behaviour

[Jerome Tuncer]

Thanks guies, thanks Lluis,

I'm not using extended and I couldn't remember how to only compile 
[colorgrid] from cvs' sources... I'm trying this new version as soon as 
I get home.

++


Jé

Lluis Gómez i Bigordà a écrit :
> hi,
> 
> in the colorgrid case, only last version (from last week) is working
> correctly in GOP. 
> 
> you can dowload it here .
> 
> http://hangar.org/wikis/lab/pd/pdvjtools/src/colorgrid/colorgrid-0.5.tar.gz
> 
> i hope it will be in the extended soon ...
> 
> 
> 
> El dc 10 de 10 del 2007 a les 09:50 +0200, en/na IOhannes m zmoelnig va
> escriure:
>> IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
>>
>>> i cannot repproduce this (attached patch works fine for me)
>>>
>> argh, it's too early in the morning
>>
>>
>> fmarsd.
>> IOhannes
>> fitxer adjunt plain text document (vugop.pd)
>> #N canvas 0 0 565 394 10;
>> #N canvas 671 77 450 300 sub 0;
>> #X obj 126 146 vu 15 120 empty empty -1 -8 0 8 -66577 -1 1 0;
>> #X coords 0 -1 1 1 100 200 1 100 100;
>> #X restore 280 104 pd sub;
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Re: [PD] click interface hack??

[Nikola Jeremic]

hi everybody
same here, would love to have it too...
it is also complicated to connect object that are far away, and it is not
always wise to use s~ and r~
greets
n.

On 10/10/07, Derek Holzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Kevin,
>
> it's a nice idea, since dragging is the thing that gives you
> carpal-tunnel syndrome the worst! Very un-ergonomic motion, if ever one
> was invented my only way around it is to patch with a Wacom tablet.
>
> I'd support this as a feature request.
>
> best,
> d.
>
> Kevin McCoy wrote:
> > Hi list,
> >
> > Has anyone done a hack so instead of clicking and dragging patch cords
> > (which is kind of awkward still), you can click an outlet and then it
> > starts the patch cord and then move the mouse freehand to the
> > destination, click an inlet and it connects them that way?  To cancel
> > the patch cord you can just click on the blank canvas.
>
> --
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl :::
> http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
> ---Oblique Strategy # 103:
> "Left channel, right channel, centre channel"
>
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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[kristof lauwers]

Hi Tim & all!

my 50c on the Duch translations you proposed..

> > $arguments = "argumenten";

maybe "parameters" is better here. if i here "argumenten" in Dutch i 
rather think of arguments like in a discussion

> > $messages = "berichten";   // could be 'boodschappen' too, but that
> > sounds a bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.

i think "berichten" definitely sounds better

> > $dependencies = "vereisten"; // translated freely as
> > 'requirements' here, maybe there's a better word but it doesnt
> > spring to mind now

if i read "vereisten" in Dutch i woldn't think of dependencies the 
way it's used in computer programming. maybe the literal translation 
"afhankelijkheden"? sounds a bit ugly but i think it's more clear

> > $releaseDate = "uitgebrachtOp";// or 'gepubliceerdOp' ? or
> > 'vrijgegevenOp? or

"datum van uitgave" ? - i think it's better to stick to a noun..

> > $programmingLanguage = "programmeerTaal";
> > $operatingSystem = "besturingsSysteem";
> > $dataType = "dataType";
>
>"camel case" isn't used in wikipedia (unless that's a Dutch spelling
>convention).  In English, following wikipedia, these are:

it are all existing words which you normally write i one word in 
dutch, so you can just drop the camelcase..

groetjes,

Kristof






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http://myspace.com/xofxof
 


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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates (French)

[Olivier Heinry]

> 
> Wikipedia FR uses "ébauche" for stub and "Modèle" for template:
> 
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:%C3%89bauche


Let's keep "ébauche" then.

> 
> And "infobox" seems to be a universal term in Wikipedia:
> 
> http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mod%C3%A8le:Infobox

Well, in plain French, it would rather read "boîte d'information". In
current French: "Boîte d'info". Most people would understand "Infobox"
though. Should we stick to the choices made by Wikipedia, although
they're not always "correct" (in the sense they sometimes merely
copy/paste the existing English word, counting on the fact the average
francophone know enough of English to complete the scheme eg. "infobox",
thus expanding "Franglish") or compete  and try to forge something both
plain French and adequate?
There have been already a few successful attempts in the latter way:
courriel, ordinateur, redingote...

++
O.


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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[Oded Ben-Tal]

> this might be the case: afaik [rgb2hsv] is also part of markEx (which used to 
> be part of Gem but is no more; only the hsv<->rgb functions have stayed as 
> abstractions)
>
> do you have other markEx objects like [tripleLine]?
>

Yes. that explains things
thanks
Oded

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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Oded Ben-Tal wrote:
> 1) as far as I could tell [rgb2hsv] and [rgb2yuv] exist in the same 
> directory. and while gem finds the former it doesn't find the latter. 
> Unless there is another version of [rgb2hsv] in the linrary as an object 
> and not an abstraction?

this might be the case: afaik [rgb2hsv] is also part of markEx (which 
used to be part of Gem but is no more; only the hsv<->rgb functions have 
stayed as abstractions)

do you have other markEx objects like [tripleLine]?

mfa.sdr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[Oded Ben-Tal]

> these are now abstractions, you have to add the path were the Gem.pd_darwin 
> lives to pd's search paths.
>
> the path is usually /extra/Gem/
>

Two quesion than:
1) as far as I could tell [rgb2hsv] and [rgb2yuv] exist in the same 
directory. and while gem finds the former it doesn't find the latter. 
Unless there is another version of [rgb2hsv] in the linrary as an object 
and not an abstraction?

2) This is just a stupid mac problem: When I look at the path settings in 
pd I only see a partial list (about 10 lines) how do I add another one, 
witout removing any of the existing paths? (when I tried replacing a 
existing entry that I don't use, and save the setting, it seems it only 
saved the first few entries visible on the screen and removed a dozen or 
so additional ones hidden from view).

thanks
Oded

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Re: [PD] click interface hack??

[Derek Holzer]

Hi Kevin,

it's a nice idea, since dragging is the thing that gives you 
carpal-tunnel syndrome the worst! Very un-ergonomic motion, if ever one 
was invented my only way around it is to patch with a Wacom tablet.

I'd support this as a feature request.

best,
d.

Kevin McCoy wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> Has anyone done a hack so instead of clicking and dragging patch cords 
> (which is kind of awkward still), you can click an outlet and then it 
> starts the patch cord and then move the mouse freehand to the 
> destination, click an inlet and it connects them that way?  To cancel 
> the patch cord you can just click on the blank canvas.

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 103:
"Left channel, right channel, centre channel"

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Re: [PD] colrgrid / GOP behaviour

[Lluis Gómez i Bigordà]

hi,

in the colorgrid case, only last version (from last week) is working
correctly in GOP. 

you can dowload it here .

http://hangar.org/wikis/lab/pd/pdvjtools/src/colorgrid/colorgrid-0.5.tar.gz

i hope it will be in the extended soon ...



El dc 10 de 10 del 2007 a les 09:50 +0200, en/na IOhannes m zmoelnig va
escriure:
> IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
> 
> > i cannot repproduce this (attached patch works fine for me)
> > 
> 
> argh, it's too early in the morning
> 
> 
> fmarsd.
> IOhannes
> fitxer adjunt plain text document (vugop.pd)
> #N canvas 0 0 565 394 10;
> #N canvas 671 77 450 300 sub 0;
> #X obj 126 146 vu 15 120 empty empty -1 -8 0 8 -66577 -1 1 0;
> #X coords 0 -1 1 1 100 200 1 100 100;
> #X restore 280 104 pd sub;
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[jamie]

> Hallo,
> Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote:
>
>> I'm a bit torn on this. I actually like the concept, but you're right,
>> like all good things that make life easy they tend to erode discipline
>> and structure. The patch messy and sweep it all under the rug
>> philosophy is probably very appealing to many.
>
> My performace patches typically just have one big red Toggle for
> on/off and everything else under the rug.

Interesting. I like thie minimal performance GUI approach also. I am
curious about your big red Toggle though - what does it do? Global audio
toggle, or something more... or is that a secret ;-)

Now I think of it, why not just run -nogui, and activate the toggle from a
unix pipe!

Jamie


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Olivier Heinry]

Le mercredi 10 octobre 2007 à 02:18 -0400, Mathieu Bouchard a écrit :
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chris McCormick wrote:
> 
> > implying that the phrase "Mongolian hordes" represents a historically 
> > valid viewpoint is perpetuating a western-biased (racist) falsehood.
> 
> "horde" is not a viewpoint. It's a noun. It means "political subdivision 
> of a (central asian) nomadic people". It comes for Turkic "orda" meaning a 
> Khan's residence.
> 
> > The mere fact that everyone knows what we're talking about when we say 
> > "mongolian hordes"
> 
> If you use political correctness to get a word loaded with connotations to 
> be replaced by a brand new word, the old connotations tend to be carried 
> over to the new word. Thus those are not so much properties of a specific 
> word, than a topic of public opinion. This is something that is best fixed 
> by education and not by "dictionary engineering".
> 
> > whilst there is no similar widespread cliche for western invaders in our 
> > culture is testament to this fact.

Fair use of political correctness:
 I read an article about US Restaurants renaming "French fries" into
"Liberty fries" (although most French think fries originate from
Belgium ;-), I suggest we rewrite "Mongolian hordes" into "Liberty
hordes".

bye.

O.


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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Oded Ben-Tal wrote:
> It seems my Gem is missing [yuv2rgb] (and rgb2yuv ).
> A bit of history: I'm using pd0.39-extended from at.or.at, but that 
> version of Gem had problems (see previous exchanges for the details) I 
> replaced the pd.gem_drawin file from a more recent CVS version and that 
> fixed many problems. I am running it on a macbook, osx10.4
> [rgb2hsv] does exist.
> 

these are now abstractions, you have to add the path were the 
Gem.pd_darwin lives to pd's search paths.

the path is usually /extra/Gem/

[import Gem] should do the trick as well...

fma.sdr
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] another small gem problem

[Oded Ben-Tal]

It seems my Gem is missing [yuv2rgb] (and rgb2yuv ).
A bit of history: I'm using pd0.39-extended from at.or.at, but that 
version of Gem had problems (see previous exchanges for the details) I 
replaced the pd.gem_drawin file from a more recent CVS version and that 
fixed many problems. I am running it on a macbook, osx10.4
[rgb2hsv] does exist.

Thanks
Oded



  -- 
___
Oded Ben-Tal
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~oded
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [PD] pd-extended 39-3 libraries load

[Anders Friberg]

I had for a long time similar struggles related to missing objects in 
pd-extended.
To use the colon as separator does not seem to work on Windows - which 
makes sense since paths usually contain a colon as well.
And if I want to use all libs in extended I have to list 51 paths since 
that is the number of folders in /pd/extra/!
And it is very confusing (especially for a beginner) when the help 
patches in the browser do not work from the beginning.
It would be wonderful to have a "working out-of-the-box" solution to 
this problem. (and yes - I clicked the reg file)
pd-extended is a great effort and if this issue can be solved it would 
improve the usability enormously.

/Anders

Max Neupert wrote:

Am 07.10.2007 um 07:12 schrieb Luiz Naveda:
  
Nowdays I have had a strange problem. I have my own library which  
depends on some other libraris from PD extended. When I have to  
install it in other computers, I put my folders in 2 of the 10 slot- 
path but normally it misses 3 or 4 other libraries, so I start to  
look for the missing objects and rewrite all missing libraries in  
the 10 slots...



to add more entries you may use the : as a separator as described here:

http://puredata.org/docs/tutorials/TipsAndTricks#add-more-entries-to- 
the-path-and-library-dialogs


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Re: [PD] [OT] Re: about sexism

[Chuckk Hubbard]

On 10/10/07, Mathieu Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Oct 2007, Chris McCormick wrote:
> > whilst there is no similar widespread cliche for western invaders in our
> > culture is testament to this fact.
>
> I believe that "colonialism" and "imperialism" are widespread words,
> concepts and clichés, that are loaded by several centuries of history.


Absolutely.  I'm not sure which culture is "our" culture, but in mine I have
read and heard more bad about the white invaders than any others, especially
Mongolians.  The fact that Europeans were ever enslaved by Africans is
almost completely gone from history books or general knowledge.  The notion
that Europeans savagely trampled a world full of peaceful, altruistic people
throughout history seems to be pretty widespread.
It also seems to me that hacker culture uses lots of terms tongue-in-cheek,
and that a reference to Mongolian hordes may even be, in some folks' minds,
a jab at the Westerners who coined the term.  Americans today make ironic
references to the "Axis of Evil" and the "war on terror" and "homeland
security" all the time.  It doesn't mean they buy it, even if the media
makes it seem that way.

-Chuckk

-- 
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com
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Re: [PD] remote SL users..?

[Damian Stewart]

Luke Iannini (pd) wrote:
> Hi Damien,
> My lawd yes!  I sent them an email about this same thing and never 
> received a response.
> 
> I have a system I've been working on based on Memento that exposes all 
> state-savable parameters for assignment to a midi-controller, 
> automatically... but I still have to map the names to my SL which makes 
> me cry.
> 
> If it's possible to write it in Python I'd be more than happy to help (I 
> have no experience with C/++ sadly).
> 
> Cheers
> Luke

hey,
cheers for your email,

i should be all right coding it on my own - the question is whether you can 
individually address pots and sliders or whether you have to upload an 
entire template at once - which would be a bit stink. anyway i'll let you 
know how it goes.

d

-- 
damian stewart | +44 7854 493 796 | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
frey | live art with machines | http://www.frey.co.nz

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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[Yorick Phlypo]

Tim,

... verkocht.

Je zal dat goed doen. Daar geloof ik in. :D
Al weet ik maar half wat die pdpedia inhoudt. Ik zal toch eens vanaf de
eerste pdpedia mailing moeten lezen.

gegroet,

yorick

2007/10/10, tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
> Basically, you'd be the lead on that site.  The sysop role means you have
> admin privileges over the whole site, and can make others sysops.  You can
> share that role with as many people as you want, and be as involved as you
> want..  I am hoping that pdpedia will develop into related, autonomous
> communities.
>
>
> Ok, count me in.
>
> This should be posted to the Pd list so that the community can be
> involved.  I don't speak dutch at all, I'm just good at spotting typos :D
> The idea so far is to do some kind of lazy consensus.  Post the Dutch
> template to the list, wait for comments, after a bit of time with no
> objections, we'll create the templates.
>
> .hc
>
>  This is what the Nederlands template looks like until now:
>
> # wikipedia terms
> $stub = "Beginnetje";
> $template = "Sjabloon";
> $category = "Categorie";
> $infobox = "Infobox";
>
> # pdpedia terms
> $objectclass = "Objectklasse";
>
> # page headers
> $inlets = "Ingangen";
> $outlets = "Uitgangen";
> $arguments = "Argumenten";
> $messages = "Berichten";   // could be 'Boodschappen' too, but that sounds a 
> bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.
>
> # infobox
> $name = "Naam";
> $description = "Beschrijving";   // can also be 'Omschrijving'
> $abbreviation = "Afkorting";
> $library = "Bibliotheek";
> $author = "Auteur";
> $developer = "Ontwikkelaar";
> $releaseVersion = "Versie";
> $releaseDate = "Uitgebracht op";// or 'Gepubliceerd op' ? or 'Vrijgegeven 
> op? or just 'Releasedate' ?
> $dependencies = "Afhankelijkheden";  // could also be translated freely as 
> 'Vereisten', something like 'requirements'
> $license = "Licentie";
> $website = "Website";
> $programmingLanguage = "Programmeertaal";
> $platform = "Platform";
> $operatingSystem = "Besturingssysteem";
> $language = "Taal";
> $dataType = "Data type";
> $distributions = "Distributies";
>
>
> eenmaal andermaal...
>
> Tim
>  
>
>
>
> comments and suggestions from dutch speakers welcome !
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David
> Zicarelli
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> "[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are
> deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from
> scarcity."-John Gilmore
>
>
>
>
>
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>


-- 
Yorick Phlypo

Brigade Pironlaan 45
8400 Oostende BELGIUM

0032 485 19 95 76
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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Steffen Juul]

While I agree very much with both Kevin and Frank, quoted below, i  
think this "debate" is healthy, as it would be foolish not to look  
for new ideas. That many new ideas will be discarded since they rime  
an awful lot with Fisher Price is another matter.


On 10/10/2007, at 3.27, Kevin McCoy wrote:
> Sends and receives (...)

On 10/10/2007, at 8.47, Frank Barknecht wrote:
>  But well, if it works for them ...


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Re: [PD] colrgrid / GOP behaviour

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:


i cannot repproduce this (attached patch works fine for me)



argh, it's too early in the morning


fmarsd.
IOhannes
#N canvas 0 0 565 394 10;
#N canvas 671 77 450 300 sub 0;
#X obj 126 146 vu 15 120 empty empty -1 -8 0 8 -66577 -1 1 0;
#X coords 0 -1 1 1 100 200 1 100 100;
#X restore 280 104 pd sub;
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Re: [PD] translations for pdpedia templates Nederlands

[tim]

Basically, you'd be the lead on that site. The sysop role means you 
have admin privileges over the whole site, and can make others sysops. 
You can share that role with as many people as you want, and be as 
involved as you want.. I am hoping that pdpedia will develop into 
related, autonomous communities.




Ok, count me in.

This should be posted to the Pd list so that the community can be 
involved. I don't speak dutch at all, I'm just good at spotting typos 
:D The idea so far is to do some kind of lazy consensus. Post the 
Dutch template to the list, wait for comments, after a bit of time 
with no objections, we'll create the templates.


.hc


This is what the Nederlands template looks like until now:

# wikipedia terms
$stub = "Beginnetje";
$template = "Sjabloon";
$category = "Categorie";
$infobox = "Infobox";

# pdpedia terms
$objectclass = "Objectklasse";

# page headers
$inlets = "Ingangen";
$outlets = "Uitgangen";
$arguments = "Argumenten";
$messages = "Berichten";   // could be 'Boodschappen' too, but that sounds a 
bit wierd to me, as that also means 'arrands'.

# infobox
$name = "Naam";
$description = "Beschrijving";   // can also be 'Omschrijving'
$abbreviation = "Afkorting";
$library = "Bibliotheek";
$author = "Auteur";
$developer = "Ontwikkelaar";
$releaseVersion = "Versie";
$releaseDate = "Uitgebracht op";// or 'Gepubliceerd op' ? or 'Vrijgegeven 
op? or just 'Releasedate' ?
$dependencies = "Afhankelijkheden";  // could also be translated freely as 
'Vereisten', something like 'requirements'
$license = "Licentie";
$website = "Website";
$programmingLanguage = "Programmeertaal";
$platform = "Platform";
$operatingSystem = "Besturingssysteem";
$language = "Taal";
$dataType = "Data type";
$distributions = "Distributies";


eenmaal andermaal...

Tim





comments and suggestions from dutch speakers welcome !

Tim




 



Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. 
-David Zicarelli








 



"[W]e have invented the technology to eliminate scarcity, but we are 
deliberately throwing it away to benefit those who profit from 
scarcity." -John Gilmore






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Re: [PD] representing classes and selectors in the wiki

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Enrique Erne wrote:
>>> Searching for "counter" works pretty well (unfortunately, "Go" is the  
>>> default when you hit enter):
>> i see. what does "Go" mean?
> 
> 
> there are two submit buttons underneath the search input field. "Go" directly
> displays the site with the highest ranking, like googles "i'm feeling lucky".

ah thanks; i equally never understood the meaning of the "i'm feeling 
lucky" button on google :-)

fmgads.r
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] colrgrid / GOP behaviour

[IOhannes m zmoelnig]

Jerome Tuncer wrote:
> Hi Yves/list,
>
> 
> I already noticed this behaviour with other GUI stuff - namely core 
> pd/IEM's [vu]). 


i cannot repproduce this (attached patch works fine for me)

there seems to be a problem with pd not displaying an object in gop-mode 
at all, if one (however small) part of the object is outside of the 
gop-rectangle.

i don't know whether this is a bug or a feature.

gfmasdr.
IOhannes

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Re: [PD] That's a surprising new look

[Frank Barknecht]

Hallo,
Andy Farnell hat gesagt: // Andy Farnell wrote:

> I'm a bit torn on this. I actually like the concept, but you're right,
> like all good things that make life easy they tend to erode discipline
> and structure. The patch messy and sweep it all under the rug 
> philosophy is probably very appealing to many.

My performace patches typically just have one big red Toggle for
on/off and everything else under the rug. So personally I don't care
for that feature, but I fear, it may encourage creating "flat"
patches, instead of making people modularize stuff into abstractions
and build "deep" patches. But well, if it works for them ...

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org__

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