Re: [PD] analog PD+GEM

[Ed Kelly]

Jeenyoos!

BTW I went to a modular synth meetup the other day. Hoxtonowl were demoing a 
eurorack module that runs Pd. They already have an effects pedal that uses it: 
http://hoxtonowl.com/2014/04/owl-puredata-alphatesters-wanted/
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 
On Thursday, 17 April 2014, 18:12, Chris Clepper  wrote:
 
I played a bit with it at last year's AHNE meet.  It was perplexing to use even 
for someone with extensive video and Eurorack experience!
>
>
>I think it is still just the one-off module.  Crazy device though..
>
>
>
>On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 12:09 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>
>Hehe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63ay74S34XI
>>
>>
>>
>>Dan Wilcox
>>@danomatika
>>danomatika.com
>>robotcowboy.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [PD] patch wanted: loop station

[Ed Kelly]

The way to deal with this in real-time is to fade in for a short period at the 
start, and fade out at the end. In order for that to respond in real time, I've 
found a good way is to delay the audio stream by a tiny value (e.g. 5ms) then 
fade the audio at 5ms - 1 audio block (about 1.46ms). That way, when you hit 
"stop" on the sample playback object (e.g. tabread4~ or xgroove~) the audio 
stops, but the 5ms delay means that the fadeout starting at that moment will 
happen before the audio you hear stops (because it is delayed by 5ms).

I hope that makes sense. Patch enclosed!
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 



On Wednesday, 26 March 2014, 21:52, "pured...@11h11.com"  
wrote:
 
Hi everyone,
>
>I'm struggling at making my own loop station solution inside pd. I'm  
>trying to mimic SooperLooper, that is:
>
>- multiple sync options
>- multiple quantize options
>+ something i am not sure SooperLooper do: cross-fading begin/end of  
>loop to avoid glitches.
>
>I have code a patch, but it is very messy (1 abstraction for master, x  
>abstractions for slaves). I am using xrecord & xgroove (for  
>crossing-fading start / end). The patch is kind of working but I am  
>getting glitches when starting and stopping the recording (I think it  
>was okay when using a bigger jack buffer - (I am now at 64...)).
>
>Thanks!
>
>
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>#N canvas 0 0 450 300 10;
#X obj 66 90 inlet~;
#X obj 65 128 delwrite~ \$0-buf 5;
#X obj 65 152 delread~ \$0-buf 5;
#X obj 64 192 *~;
#X obj 63 227 outlet~;
#X obj 209 141 inlet;
#X text 210 121 Start = 1 \, Stop = 0;
#X obj 209 165 pack f 3.5;
#X connect 0 0 1 0;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 4 0;
#X connect 5 0 7 0;
#X connect 7 0 3 1;
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Re: [PD] Legal restrictions for apps

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Dan, Miller et al.

I'm still somewhat confused about the LGPL issues with regarding apps.

Say I make an app that uses LibPd, and include an object or library that is 
licensed with an LGPL license. Would I have to include all source code for the 
app itself, or would it be sufficient to provide object files and source code 
for just the LGPL library I have used?

Cheers,
Ed


 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 



On Sunday, 26 January 2014, 19:29, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
 
Howdy Miller, 
>
>
>Sorry to bring this up again. The license in the expr source code headers has 
>been updated to LGPL, but I just noticed the post in vexp_if.c line 386 still 
>reads:
>
>
>"expr, expr~, fexpr~ version %s under GNU General Public License  ".
>
>On Oct 5, 2013, at 8:53 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
>
>Awesome, thank you. I'm glad we could figure it out. I remember checking a few 
>times and we discussed this in libpd. I kept getting confused by the different 
>licenses.
>
>
>On Oct 6, 2013, at 3:55 AM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
>
>OK... done and pushed to git repo.
>>
>>cheers
>>M
>>
>>On Sat, Oct 05, 2013 at 12:18:23PM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>
>>Hmm... Looking back in the git repo i saw:
>>>
>>>commit 42f3e5f8dbc60ad644e9f8a1c5b61d1847e19470
>>>Author: Miller Puckette 
>>>Date:   Thu Nov 3 11:40:35 2011 -0700
>>>
>>>   change expr~ source to LGPL license (with IRCAM"s permission :)
>>>
>>>I had quite forgotten about this (and still can't remember this ever having 
>>>happened)
>>>but here's the e-mail I got from Shahrokh:
>>>
>>>
>>>On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 02:50:53AM -0700, Shahrokh Yadegari wrote:

Dear Max and Miller,
>
>I got news from IRCAM that they are willing to release expr code on LGPL.
>Will that solve the current licensing problems?
>
>Max, could you communicate to the list and let me know what they think
>about

this. I hope this helps.
>
>thanks,
>Shahrokh
>
>>>So I think we're in the clear (although I hope Shahrokh kept the mail from
>>>IRCAM authorizing this!)
>>>
>>>I'll go on and change the source over here so that it appears in the git 
>>>repo.
>>>(This will take some time as I first want to merge my 0.45 fixes into 
>>>'master'.)
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>Miller
>>>
>>>
>
>
>Dan Wilcox
>@danomatika
>danomatika.com
>robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Pure Data, libpd, help

[Ed Kelly]

Hello Andrei.

The Ninja Jamm patch has moved on a bit since then, but there are some things 
you should note.

1) Events can be encapsulated but audio paths cannot if you want the greatest 
efficiency from your target device (e.g. iPhone 4 - the minimum platform for 
Ninja Jamm). But try not to encapsulate below one level below the master patch, 
even for event-based subpatched, if you don't want to glitch.
2) you will probably have to write a few externals of your own if you cannot 
get the functions you need from vanilla Pd, and these need to be wrapped into 
the compilation of the app. Look at http://pdstatic.iem.at/externals-HOWTO/ for 
more info on how to write an external for Pure Data. Alternatively it is worth 
checking out the rjlib material from RJDJ at https://github.com/rjdj - v.good 
abstractions! 
I don't make the GUI for Ninja Jamm but...
3) the way a libpd patch is controlled by a GUI is by send and receive objects 
in Pd.
In my experience it is normal to make the objects in the GUI non-callback - 
i.e. if the GUI objects receive a message from Pd they do not send it back to 
Pd, but if a message is sent to the Pd patch it can send one back to the GUI.

I hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Ed




 



Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 



On Tuesday, 26 November 2013, 22:13, Andrei Branea 
 wrote:
 
Hi Ed,
>My name is Andrei Branea and I recently graduated Creative Music Technology at 
>Bath Spa University. 
>
>I've been working with Pd during the last few years. Your Pd work is really 
>impressive, I remember having discovered Metastudio a couple of years ago, 
>when I was looking at projects presented at the PD conventions, and at the 
>time the patches were above my level of understanding.
>
>I recently discovered your work for the Seeper Ninja Tune app. I would like to 
>learn more about making and integrating Pd patches in apps using libpd, to get 
>in touch with apps developers and propose the addition of procedural audio to 
>their apps. 
>
>I had a look at the screenshot of the patch 
>(http://createdigitalmusic.com/files/2013/04/np-PD-patch-of-Ninja-Jamm-code-audio-engine.gif),
> and I found it striking that so much is on the main patch without using 
>encapsulation. I would appreciate if you could share your experience about 
>current limitations, challenges related to communication between Pd and the 
>operating system, and maybe other issues you have found essential in 
>integrating Pd as audio engine. 
>
>Please reply whenever you can spare a minute, it's not urgent, but actual 
>insight to the development process and understanding of it is very valuable to 
>me.
>
>All the best,
>
>Andrei.
>
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Re: [PD] puredata pacman download?

[Ed Kelly]

Tried this?

http://claudionervi.com/pure-data/pd-patches.html


 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 



On Thursday, 7 November 2013, 14:19, IOhannes m zmoelnig  
wrote:
 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
>Hash: SHA256
>
>i wonder where the great pac data implementation can be downloaded
>these days.
>the old link [1] only gives 404.
>
>
>fgamsdr
>IOhannes
>
>[1] http://claudionervi.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/PAC-DATA.zip
>-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
>Version: GnuPG v1.4.15 (GNU/Linux)
>Comment: Using GnuPG with Icedove - http://www.enigmail.net/
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>=TdWa
>-END PGP SIGNATURE-
>
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Radium 1.9.31 released for Linux

[Ed Kelly]

Wha?

That's really great!

Thanks,
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 



On Monday, 21 October 2013, 22:27, Kjetil Matheussen  
wrote:
 
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 8:16 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner  wrote:
>>
>> Very nice!  Did you embed Pd-extended? Or is it libpd with Pd-extended as the
>> editor?
>>
>
>Thank you! I'm using "libpds", which is a fork of libpd with pd 0.43-3 upgraded
>to pd-extended 0.43-3, plus many many other modifications:
>https://github.com/kmatheussen/libpd
>
>
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Re: [PD] Metastudio 0.5

[Ed Kelly]

Sorry, I meant the "tot" external, rather than "tof" which is a library! (it 
was either late, or early when I wrote the last email, depending on what time 
zone you're in)


 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 



On Saturday, 26 October 2013, 8:35, Ed Kelly  wrote:
 
Hi list,
>
>I've decided to release Metastudio 0.5, despite never having the time to make 
>help files fo all the GOP objects I've made. I had kids - they are fairly high 
>maintanance! :-)
>
>http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/metastudio-0.5.zip
>
>The big development is the quadtracker, but it needs a working version of the 
>tof external to work. Apologies for this...it's missing from the current 
>Pd-extended distribution, but I got it to work by tweaking the source code. 
>You can download and compile a working version for Debian Linux here: 
>http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/miXedremixed-2013-08-17.tar.gz
>
>There is a help file for quadtracker, but you have to add the Metastudio-0.5 
>folder to your search path in preferences.
>
>I hope you have fun with it. Like I said, I used to
 think I was busy, but please get in touch if you have a good question (or even 
a bad one)
>
>Bless,
>Ed Kelly
>
>
>
> 
>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>for iPhone and iPad
>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>
>
>
>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 
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[PD] Metastudio 0.5

[Ed Kelly]

Hi list,

I've decided to release Metastudio 0.5, despite never having the time to make 
help files fo all the GOP objects I've made. I had kids - they are fairly high 
maintanance! :-)

http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/metastudio-0.5.zip

The big development is the quadtracker, but it needs a working version of the 
tof external to work. Apologies for this...it's missing from the current 
Pd-extended distribution, but I got it to work by tweaking the source code. You 
can download and compile a working version for Debian Linux here: 
http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata/miXedremixed-2013-08-17.tar.gz

There is a help file for quadtracker, but you have to add the Metastudio-0.5 
folder to your search path in preferences.

I hope you have fun with it. Like I said, I used to think I was busy, but 
please get in touch if you have a good question (or even a bad one)

Bless,
Ed Kelly


 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ ___
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Re: [PD] moog~ in pure pd?

[Ed Kelly]

: 0 : 1;
//}
res1 = (*res++);
q = 1.0f - fc1;
p = fc1 + 0.8f * fc1 * q;
fcoeff = p + p - 1.0f;
q = res1 * (1.0f + 0.5f * q * (1.0f - q + 5.6f * q * q));
i1 -= q * xb4;  //feedback
t1 = xb1;
xb1 = (i1 + xb0) * p - xb1 * fcoeff;
t2 = xb2;
xb2 = (xb1 + t1) * p - xb2 * fcoeff;
t1 = xb3;
xb3 = (xb2 + t2) * p - xb3 * fcoeff;
xb4 = (xb3 + t1) * p - xb4 * fcoeff;
xb4 = saturate(xb4);
xb4 = xb4 - xb4 * xb4 * xb4 * 0.01f;
xb0 = i1;
*out++ = xb4*1.414; // lowpass mode
// *out++ = i1 - x->b4; // highpass mode
// Lowpass  output:  xb4
// Highpass output:  in - xb4;
// Bandpass output:  3.0f * (b3 - xb4);

  }
  x->b0 = xb0;
  x->b1 = xb1;
  x->b2 = xb2;
  x->b3 = xb3;
  x->b4 = xb4;
//  if(x->debug != 0) {
//x->token +=1;
//if(x->token == 15) {
//  post("q = %f, p=%f, fcoeff=%f, b0=%f, b1=%f, b2=%f, b3=%f, b4=%f",q,p,fcoeff,xb0,xb1,xb2,xb3,xb4);
//  x->token = 0;
//}
//  }
  return (w+7);
}

void mvcf_tilde_dsp(t_mvcf_tilde *x, t_signal **sp) {
  dsp_add(mvcf_tilde_perform, 6, x, sp[0]->s_vec, sp[1]->s_vec, sp[2]->s_vec, sp[3]->s_vec, sp[0]->s_n);
}

void mvcf_tilde_safety(t_mvcf_tilde *x, t_floatarg f) {
  x->safety = f != 0 ? 1 : 0;
}

/*void mvcf_tilde_mode(t_mvcf_tilde *x, t_floatarg f) {
x->mode = f < 1 ? 0 : f > 1 ? 2 : 1;
}
 */

void mvcf_tilde_clear(t_mvcf_tilde *x) {
  x->b0 = 0;
  x->b1 = 0;
  x->b2 = 0;
  x->b3 = 0;
  x->b4 = 0;
}

void mvcf_tilde_debug(t_mvcf_tilde *x, t_floatarg f) {
  x->debug = f != 0 ? 1 : 0;
}

void *mvcf_tilde_new(t_floatarg f) {
  t_mvcf_tilde *x = (t_mvcf_tilde *)pd_new(mvcf_tilde_class);

  x->b0 = 0;
  x->b1 = 0;
  x->b2 = 0;
  x->b3 = 0;
  x->b4 = 0;
  x->token = 0;
  x->safety = 0;

  inlet_new (&x->x_obj, &x->x_obj.ob_pd, &s_signal, &s_signal);
  inlet_new (&x->x_obj, &x->x_obj.ob_pd, &s_signal, &s_signal);
  outlet_new(&x->x_obj, &s_signal);
  return (void *)x;
}

void mvcf_tilde_setup(void) {
  mvcf_tilde_class = class_new(gensym("mvcf~"), 
  (t_newmethod)mvcf_tilde_new, 
  0, sizeof(t_mvcf_tilde),
  CLASS_DEFAULT, A_DEFFLOAT, 0);

  post("~~~>mvcf~");
  post("~~~>by Ed Kelly, 2012");

  class_addmethod(mvcf_tilde_class,
  (t_method)mvcf_tilde_dsp, gensym("dsp"), 0);
  CLASS_MAINSIGNALIN(mvcf_tilde_class, t_mvcf_tilde, token);
  class_addmethod(mvcf_tilde_class, (t_method)mvcf_tilde_clear, gensym("clear"), 0);
  class_addmethod(mvcf_tilde_class, (t_method)mvcf_tilde_debug, gensym("debug"), 0);
  class_addmethod(mvcf_tilde_class, (t_method)mvcf_tilde_safety, gensym("safe"), 0);
  //  class_addmethod(mvcf_tilde_class, (t_method)mvcf_tilde_mode, gensym("mode"), A_DEFFLOAT, 0);
}
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Re: [PD] prevent opening of patches

[Ed Kelly]

>That's useful, but up until recently you had to create a second instance of Pd 
>from the command line anyway, since OSX would show you the instance you 
>already had if you tried to open it from the operating system.
>>
>>Or...have I missed the point? My friend and collaborator always needs two 
>>Pd's, one for Gemnotes and one for audio processing, to play my musioc...and 
>>we wrote a BASH script to launch the gemnotes one after the audio one was set 
>>up.
>>
>>
>
>
>well, personally most times, when  developing, I need to create abstractions 
>and use global variables just to experiment with stuff. And if two instances 
>of Pd are opened when you don't want it, it can be very annoying.
>
>
>Even worst scenario when you are teaching, student might open 4 patches at a 
>time, and as 4 Pd instances are launched, and it's a mess.
>


Ah yes, students. 

Student: "But why can't I just double-click on the patch? It works for 
everything else?"

Tutor: "Because the audio driver will only work with the first instance of Pd 
you opened."

Student: "This software is rubbish. I hate Pd. Can we do something easier? It's 
too hard."

Fortunately I've just been made redundant from the institution where these 
words were spoken /;-/

Cheers,
Ed

>
>I always wondered whether we could have a flag in Pd GUI that set this kind of 
>configuration. Like, "always open a new Pd instance", "always use one Pd 
>only"... something like that. imho it would be useful.
>
>
>cheers,
>M
>
>
>  

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Re: [PD] prevent opening of patches

[Ed Kelly]

That's useful, but up until recently you had to create a second instance of Pd 
from the command line anyway, since OSX would show you the instance you already 
had if you tried to open it from the operating system.

Or...have I missed the point? My friend and collaborator always needs two Pd's, 
one for Gemnotes and one for audio processing, to play my musioc...and we wrote 
a BASH script to launch the gemnotes one after the audio one was set up.

Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


- Original Message -
> From: Matthias Kronlachner 
> To: pd-list 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, 19 September 2013, 14:06
> Subject: Re: [PD] prevent opening of patches
> 
> One more thing can be annoying on OSX:
> If you open a second instance of Pd, the same patch as in the first will 
> be opened.
> 
> One good thing to do is to create an AppleScript for opening Pd from the 
> Terminal:
> 
> * Open AppleScript Editor and past the line: (of course adapt Pd-.app)
> 
> tell application "Terminal" to do script 
> "/Applications/Pd-0.45-2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd"
> 
> * Export as Application and put wherever you want.. Now you can open 
> multiple instances of Pd with that .app, and patches won't be loaded 
> automatically.
> 
> Actually funny how complicated things get because of "user experience 
> optimizations".
> 
> Matthias
> 
> On 9/18/13 6:22 PM, Peter Venus wrote:
>>  Hello
>> 
>>  i assume, you are working on OSX:
>>  got to system preferences,
>>  click on the General Settings tab
>>  un-tick the box "restore windows when quitting and re-opening 
> apps"
>>  cheers,
>>  Peter
>> 
>>  Am 18.09.13 17:05, schrieb IOhannes m zmölnig:
>>>  On 09/18/13 16:01, Olivier Baudry wrote:
  Dear all
 
  Is there any function to prevent the opening of last patch when you
  start pd or pd-extended?
>>> 
>>>  how do you trigger that behaviour?
>>>  it doesn't do that here.
>>> 
>>>  fgmasdr
>>>  IOhannes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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[PD] Chebyshev polynomial formants?

[Ed Kelly]

Hi list,

Does anyone have an external, or some externalizable code, to extract chebyshev 
polynomial-based formant analysis from audio?

I want centre-frequency, bandwidth and amplitude. Can we do this? I think I 
need to progress my math, but I generally learn by example.

Love,
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
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Re: [PD] Nettiquette (was Re: Scaling values in pd)

[Ed Kelly]

By the way JM Jones,

Check out the two posts I made with regard to scaling values in Pd. There's 
some very useful stuff.
Also, check out http://puredata.wikispaces.com - it's a site I've made 
specifically for noobs :)

Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Jm Jones 
>To: Jonathan Wilkes  
>Cc: Ed Kelly ; "pd-list@iem.at"  
>Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013, 5:34
>Subject: Re: [PD] Nettiquette (was Re: Scaling values in pd)
> 
>
>
>yeah, im a noob and i really appreciate the knowledge of this beautiful 
>community, keep the good vibes! some really brilliant and humble people here!
>
>
>
>2013/9/3 Jonathan Wilkes 
>
>On 09/03/2013 07:00 PM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>
>>OUCH!
>>>
>>>
>>>On 09/03/2013 02:32 AM, IOhannes zmölnig wrote:
>>>>
>>>>On 09/02/2013 06:17 PM, hghoyer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>in Max/MSP there is an object for simple scaling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you create in MAX these object with this arguments:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[scale 0 127 0 500] incomming messages from 0 to 127 are automatically
>>>>>>scaled from 0 to 500...
>>>>>>
honestly i'm of the firm conviction that you should learn how scaling
>>>>>works: it really is only a matter of adding, multiplying, dividing,
>>>>>subtracting - stuff you should heave learned in primary school.
>>>>>
I'm unclear-- are you insulting the user on purpose, or do you
>>>>expect others to be equally insulting to you if you happen to ask
>>>>a question they find trivial?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>as frank pointed out, this should do for you:
>>>>>
>>>>>|
>>>>>[/ 127]
>>>>>|
>>>>>[* 500]
>>>>>|
>>>>>
>>>>>if you find it too tedious to do the maths over and over again, you
>>>>>might want to create an abstraction.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>being able to solve trivial problems like this will surely empower you
>>>>>to solve more complex problems :-)
>>>>>
If you want to help empower people to solve complex problems, start
>>>>by not insulting them when they ask questions on the list.
>>>>
>>>>Best,
>>>>Jonathan
>>>>
>>>Another heated moment in Pd-list history.
>>>
>>>I think it's wise for us to remember that not every noob coming onto the 
>>>list for the first time has a personal acquaintance with all of us. We're 
>>>all sometimes a bit casual in our dealings with each other, and for those of 
>>>us who have met each other in person we've had a chance to measure the 
>>>aloofness and eccentricity of the other core members of the community.
>>>
>>>Remember it's a community!
>>>
>>
Yes, that's a much better way to put it than I did.  Sorry for the 
unnecessarily extreme reaction.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Love, and peace xx
>>>Ed
>>>
>>>PS did I spell netiquette write? :)
>>>
>>
Looks good to me.
>>
>>-Jonathan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>___
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>>>>   
>>>>
>>>
>>
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>
>
>
>-- 
>JM Jones 
>
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[PD] Nettiquette (was Re: Scaling values in pd)

[Ed Kelly]

OUCH!

>On 09/03/2013 02:32 AM, IOhannes zmölnig wrote:
>> On 09/02/2013 06:17 PM, hghoyer wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> in Max/MSP there is an object for simple scaling.
>>>
>>> If you create in MAX these object with this arguments:
>>>
>>> [scale 0 127 0 500] incomming messages from 0 to 127 are automatically
>>> scaled from 0 to 500...
>> honestly i'm of the firm conviction that you should learn how scaling
>> works: it really is only a matter of adding, multiplying, dividing,
>> subtracting - stuff you should heave learned in primary school.
>
>I'm unclear-- are you insulting the user on purpose, or do you
>expect others to be equally insulting to you if you happen to ask
>a question they find trivial?
>
>>
>> as frank pointed out, this should do for you:
>>
>> |
>> [/ 127]
>> |
>> [* 500]
>> |
>>
>> if you find it too tedious to do the maths over and over again, you
>> might want to create an abstraction.
>>
>>
>> being able to solve trivial problems like this will surely empower you
>> to solve more complex problems :-)
>
>If you want to help empower people to solve complex problems, start
>by not insulting them when they ask questions on the list.
>
>Best,
>Jonathan


Another heated moment in Pd-list history.

I think it's wise for us to remember that not every noob coming onto the list 
for the first time has a personal acquaintance with all of us. We're all 
sometimes a bit casual in our dealings with each other, and for those of us who 
have met each other in person we've had a chance to measure the aloofness and 
eccentricity of the other core members of the community.

Remember it's a community!

Love, and peace xx
Ed

PS did I spell netiquette write? :)

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Re: [PD] Finish Him!

[Ed Kelly]

'tis the ultimate in geek chic ;-D
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Ivica Ico Bukvic 
>To: pd-list@iem.at 
>Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2013, 5:45
>Subject: Re: [PD] Finish Him!
> 
>
>
>:-D
> 
>From:pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of Dan 
>Wilcox
>Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 12:18 AM
>To: pd-list@iem.at
>Subject: Re: [PD] Finish Him!
> 
>I don't think it's possible to get nerdier than that. :D GetOverHere
> 
>On Sep 2, 2013, at 11:52 PM, pd-list-requ...@iem.at wrote:
>
>
>
>From: Jonathan Wilkes 
>Subject: [PD] Finish Him!
>Date: September 2, 2013 11:51:50 PM EDT
>To: "pd-list@iem.at" 
>Reply-To: Jonathan Wilkes 
>
>
>
>Here's some more [drawimage] fun:
> 
>http://puredata.info/Members/jancsika/subzero.webm/view
> 
>-Jonathan
> 
>
>Dan Wilcox
>@danomatika
>danomatika.com
>robotcowboy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Scaling values in pd

[Ed Kelly]

Whoops! Here's the other one!

Cheers,
Ed


- Forwarded Message -
>From: Ed Kelly 
>To: Mario Mey ; "pd-list@iem.at"  
>Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2013, 22:58
>Subject: Re: [PD] Scaling values in pd
> 
>
>
>Couple of tricks for scaling here.
>
>
>These are from my Pd workshops at Camberwell College of Art in London. The 
>sutoscaler abstraction is especially useful when you don't know what the input 
>will be, but you want to specify the output range. The other patch is a 
>tutorial on how to scale input values with a bit more explanation.
> 
>Enjoy!
>
>
>Ed
>
>
>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>for iPhone and iPad
>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>
>
>
>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 
>
>
>>
>> From: Mario Mey 
>>To: pd-list@iem.at 
>>Sent: Tuesday, 3 September 2013, 15:15
>>Subject: Re: [PD] Scaling values in pd
>> 
>>
>>El 03/09/13 10:11, Lorenzo Sutton
 escribió:
>>> On 03/09/2013 14:06, Mario Mey wrote:
>>>> IOhannes, you are right only in these cases:
>>>>
>>>> 0 127 0 500
>>>> 0 300 0 1
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> But, if I need:
>>>>
>>>> 50 10 0 500|
>>> (assuming you want to map have 50 mapped to the 'minimum'):
>>> |
>>> [- 10]
>>> |
>>> [t b f]
>>> |   /
>>> [-  ]
>>> |
>>> [* 12.5]
>>> |
>>>
>>>> 3000 -3000 0.5 0.6
>>> [* -1]
>>> |
>>> [+ 3000]
>>> |
>>> [/ 6]
>>> |
>>> [+ 0.5]
>>
>>Yes, you can make this math every scale you need... or use an abstract 
>>that does the same automatically. In my patch, I use 284 lin-eq-conv 
>>objects. I didn't want to think how to make that math... and change 
>>everytime (normally, I create a lin-eq-conv and change its values a lot 
>>of times).
>>
>>Best.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
 ...
>>>>
>>>> I will need a "linear equation conversion". As I wrote in last mail, 
>>>> I was needing something like this, first in ActionScript... then in 
>>>> Python... but I never could did it. Now, I needed again in Pd... so, 
>>>> I made lin-eq-conv.pd with extrapolation and lin-eq-conv-clip.pd for 
>>>> clipped values. I made it as neat as I could, to see how it works. 
>>>> Using x0-x1 and y0-y1, it uses expr to get "a" and "b" at load. Then, 
>>>> it only computes "aX + b = Y".
>>>>
>>>> I attach the lin-eq-conv.pd, lin-eq-conv-clip.pd and 
>>>> lin-eq-conv-help.pd.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I have some issues using [autoscale]. I start giving values and 
>>>> it outputs only 1. Then, I start to down the input and, then, it 
>>>> shows the real output. Maybe it's about this version (0.43.4 
>>>> Pd-Extended 64bits).
>>>>
>>>> PD:
 translated to Python:
>>>>
>>>> |def lin_eq_conv(x, x0, x1, y0, y1):
>>>>    a = (y0 - y1) / (x0 - x1)
>>>>    b = (a * x0) + y0
>>>>    return a * x + b|
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> El 03/09/13 03:32, IOhannes zmölnig escribió:
>>>>> On 09/02/2013 06:17 PM, hghoyer wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in Max/MSP there is an object for simple scaling.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you create in MAX these object with this arguments:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [scale 0 127 0 500] incomming messages from 0 to 127 are automatically
>>>>>> scaled from 0 to 500...
>>>>> honestly i'm of the firm conviction that you should learn how scaling
>>>>> works: it really is only a matter of adding, multiplying, dividing,
>>>>> subtracting - stuff you should
 heave learned in primary school.
>>>>>
>>>>> as frank pointed out, this should do for you:
>>>>>
>>>>> |
>>>>> [/ 127]
>>>>> |
>>>>> [* 500]
>>>>> |
>>>>>
>>>>> if you find it too tedious to do the maths over and over again, you
>>>>> might want to create an abstraction.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> being abl

Re: [PD] karplus drum?

[Ed Kelly]

Years and years ago (1996) I made a CSound script, with the control rate set to 
the same frequency as the audio rate, and used it to generate FM 
Karplus-Strong. A sine wave modulating a Karplus-Strong string model's 
frequency.

I swept the modulation frequency through the experiment, while generating 
regular impulses to pluck the "string" and there were indeed some quite 
snare-like sounds in the more dissonant carrier/modulator relationships - i.e. 
where the ratios were more like 32:31 than 5:4. The carrier being the KS string 
model and the modulator being the sine wave.

If you're doing everything with vd~ then you can emulate this. I think I still 
have it on one of my hard drives, but I don't know which or where. I'll try to 
dig out the audio tomorrow...(today? for some reason I am awake at 6am) and 
possibly even the CSound orc/sco files !?!?!

Cheers,
Ed


Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Alexandre Torres Porres 
>To: Jonathan Wilkes  
>Cc: pd-lista puredata  
>Sent: Saturday, 31 August 2013, 5:38
>Subject: Re: [PD] karplus drum?
> 
>
>
>I'm not gonna go through the paper at all anyway, I couldn't and shouldn't...
>
>
>but I've just finished implementing in Pure Data a patch from that Max 
>forum... seems to be working, but the "drum" part, as it says, it's only
>
>
>"modulating the feedback so that it alternates quickly between either  +1-1. 
>different frequencies of modulation create different sounds, with high 
>frequencies sounding a bit like a snare" 
>
>
>it's true, but I know you could also make some bass drum sounds, as I've seen 
>in here https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/aiff/ksdrum.aiff
>
>
>what interests me, nevertheless, is learning new tricks and tweaking the 
>values so they sound more bizarre of course.
>
>
>cheers
>
>
>
>2013/8/30 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>
>here's the original paper by the way
>>
>>
>>http://users.soe.ucsc.edu/~karplus/papers/digitar.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>2013/8/30 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>>
>>Hi. There is a modification to the algorithm that makes it sound more like a 
>>drum. Here's a topic about it
>>>
>>>
>>>http://cycling74.com/forums/topic/karplus-strong-extension-drum-synthesis-algorithm/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>gonna try and translate it to Pd, but wondering if anyone has ever done it 
>>>already ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>2013/8/30 Jonathan Wilkes 
>>>
>>>On 08/30/2013 05:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:

hi there, anyone knows of a drum made of karplus strong implemented in Pd?

What kind of drum?  For a snare it's just a matter of choosing a low-enough 
frequency,
then probably slapping on some reverb and other little touches to
make it more
interesting.

I think it's just a matter of starting with a Pd implementation of
Karplus-Strong and
tweaking the variables.  And depending on the type of drum, you can
get a lot of
variety from tweaking the shape of the decay-- that is, how you
attenuate the "chunk"
of noise before you feed it back in.

-Jonathan



>
>thanks
>
>
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>>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Jonathan,

OK, here is a rundown of what I did to get tot working. Remember that I added 
elements FROM the svn version TO the downloadable verision from Krzystof's site.

in the miXed/shared/hammer directory:
gui.c needed all pd [concat etc] statements changed to pdsend [concat etc] as 
was advised.
file.c and file.h:
I changed the function

void hammereditor_open(t_hammerfile *f, char *title);

to add the third argument:

void hammereditor_open(t_hammerfile *f, char *title, char *owner);

and copied the relevant function from the svn version into file.c, overwriting 
the version that was there.

Also, in the downloaded tarball from Krzystof's site (I hope I got his name 
right) there was an extra function I added to file.h and file.c:

void hammereditor_setdirty(t_hammerfile *f, int flag);

from the svn version.

NOTE: I am only pasting the file.h declarations, so you'll have to check the 
files out for yourself. But I am including a tarball of only the files I 
changed.


I'm pretty sure that's all I did, but the annoying thing about the download was 
that cyclone had its own separate copy of the shared/ directory, so each file 
had to be copied into it as well. That's why you'll find a duplicated of the 
files in the cyclone folder, where none exists in the svn folder (again - I've 
removed everything I didn't have to change).

Also, I made sure I unzipped both the downloaded cyclone source file and the 
downloaded toxy source file into a folder I called miXed somewhere else from 
the svn copy on my hard drive. I don't know if it made any difference, but they 
were in the same folder I guess.

That's what I did. I didn't have to edit the Makefile.common in the root miXed 
directory, as I should expect since my m_pd.h, m_imp.h and g_canvas.h files I 
always copy to /usr/include when I install a new version of Pd. But I also 
notice that in the download versions of cyclone and toxy there are copies of 
m_pd.h and m_imp.h floating around!

Cheers,
Ed




Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>____
> From: Jonathan Wilkes 
>To: Ed Kelly  
>Cc: "pd-list@iem.at"  
>Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2013, 16:17
>Subject: Re: [PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"
> 
>
>
>On 08/16/2013 09:44 PM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>
>Hi Jonathan,
>>
>>I did that, but the SVN code has been hacked in a way where
[tot] doesn't work. My hacks on the other hand (in the email
"miXed remix" earlier - tarball enclosed) make [tot] work and
other things are broken.
>>
>>The files gui.c, file.c and file.h in miXed/shared/hammer and
the file scriptlet.c in miXed/shared/toxy are the files that
needed pd [concat etc etc] changing to pdsend [concat etc etc].
>>
>>My tot works with Pd 0.44 and that means I can do some gigs soon
with my tracker patches. That's good enough for me, for now, but
it would be great if we could get the whole of miXed fixed up to
the latest Pd standards. 
>>
>What are the difference between your tarball and svn for the code
that is shared among the various libraries in miXed?
>
>-Jonathan
>
>
>
>>I don't want to go near widget though - I got it to work once
only, in 2005 on a G5 mac!
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Ed
>>
>>
>
>
>

miXed_changeFiles.tar.gz
Description: GNU Zip compressed data
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Re: [PD] Absolute rather than relative paths

[Ed Kelly]

Oof.

Please don't answer that!

My paths are wrong. It's late. I've been compiling all day, and I know that // 
means "back to root folder"!!

gn
Sorry,
Ed



>________
> From: Ed Kelly 
>To: PD List  
>Sent: Saturday, 17 August 2013, 2:50
>Subject: Absolute rather than relative paths
> 
>
>
>Hi chaps,
>
>I'm trying to load files into a msgfile object in an abstraction via a 
>loadbang command. 
>
>I send a text message thus:
>
>[loadbang]
>|
>[file /path/to/the/file(
>|
>{abstraction inlet}
>|
>[route file]
>|
>etc
>
>Unfortunately it is looking for the file thus:
>
>/abstraction/location//path/to/the/file
>
>
>
>How can I fix this? It only happened since 0.43
>?
>
>Ed
>
> 
>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>for iPhone and iPad
>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>
>
>
>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 
>
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[PD] Absolute rather than relative paths

[Ed Kelly]

Hi chaps,

I'm trying to load files into a msgfile object in an abstraction via a loadbang 
command. 

I send a text message thus:

[loadbang]
|
[file /path/to/the/file(
|
{abstraction inlet}
|
[route file]
|
etc

Unfortunately it is looking for the file thus:

/abstraction/location//path/to/the/file


How can I fix this? It only happened since 0.43
?

Ed

 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
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Re: [PD] MIDI port

[Ed Kelly]

Hi,

You're probably better off using [ctlout], [noteout], [bendout] for specific 
types of MIDI data.

Cheers,
Ed

Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/


>
> From: Fero Kiraly 
>To: pdlist  
>Sent: Friday, 16 August 2013, 10:10
>Subject: [PD] MIDI port
> 
>
>
>hi guys,
>
>
>how to distribute MIDI msgs to MIDI ports ?
>
>
>I tried [midiout] but what are the "raw data"?
>
>
>
>thanks
>
>
>fero
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Re: [PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"

[Ed Kelly]

I think my problem with this, and when I tried it last time it was the same, is 
that I get these compile errors even after I've pointed the PD_DIR setting to 
either:

/root/software/pd/src/pd-0.44-0
or
/root/software/pd/src/pd-0.44-0/src

When using miXed from the subversion repository. I notice if I download cyclone 
from 
http://suita.chopin.edu.pl/~czaja/miXed/externs/cyclone.html
and toxy from
http://suita.chopin.edu.pl/~czaja/miXed/externs/toxy.html
...they compile OK.

So there is something wrong with the svn version of miXed perhaps?
Now I still get my tcl errors from [tot] but I can have a go at fixing the tcl 
code now.
Cheers,
Ed


>> 

>>  I think the problem is with [tot .] from the miXed library.
>> 
>>  Does anyone know how to compile it? It's causing me a headache. Typing 
> "make" from within the miXed library from the svn repository comes up 
> with errors where it can't seem to find basic functions, e.g.
>>  
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xbcf): undefined reference to `gensym'
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xbff): undefined reference to `canvas_getrootfor'
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xc17): undefined reference to `canvas_getrootfor'
>>  /tmp/ccctv252.o: In function `tot_getcanvas':
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xc5b): undefined reference to `canvas_class'
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xc69): undefined reference to `pd_findbyclass'
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xc79): undefined reference to `glist_getcanvas'
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xcb7): undefined reference to `loud_warning'
>>  tot.c:(.text+0xd48): undefined reference to `loud_error'
>> 
>>  
> 
> Look inside Makefile.common and change the line near (or at) the top that
> sets PD_DIR.  It looks like it's supposed to point to the src directory, 
> but I'm
> not absolutely sure about that.
> 
> then try "make clean" and "make" from inside the 
> "miXed" directory.
> 
> If that doesn't work, add to the line in Makefile.common that starts with
> "INCLUDES = ".  You'll want to add a something like this:
> I"/path/to/the/place/where/m_pd.h/lives"
> 
> Then "make clean" and "make".
> 
> Now it should create everything without error.  All your binaries will be
> located inside miXed/bin, including [tot] which I guess is what you're 
> after.
> 
> At this point, you have to do this:
> 1) Run your patch
> 2) Note the errors and place in the tcl code where they happen
> 3) From the miXed directory, grep -r "part of the erroneous code that 
> calls pd instead of pdsend"
> 4) Note the filename that grep returns
> 5) Go to the corresponding line of the offending file and change "pd" 
> to 
> "pdsend".  Also, I think
> the old "pd" tcl proc had an escaped colon after it, whereas the 
> pdsend 
> proc doesn't require
> one.  I'm not sure whether that makes a difference or not.
> 6) "make clean" and "make"
> 7) repeat until you don't get any errors.
> 
> If you're feeling generous, do this for all the toxy c files as well as 
> the test files, until the entire
> library actually works with pd-0.44, then diff against the old toxy and 
> post so we can update the code.
> 
> Let me know if you have any problems with getting your patch to work.
> 
> -Jonathan
> 
>> 
>> 
>>  It gives similar outpuit for tot, and for pddplink
>> 
>>  ?
>>  Ed
>> 
>> 
>>>   
>>>  -Jonathan
>>> 
>>>     
> 

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Re: [PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"

[Ed Kelly]

>On 07/30/13 21:03, Ed Kelly wrote:
>> I think the problem is with [tot .] from the miXed library.
>
>afaik tot is broken with pd>=0.44.
>tot heavily uses the olde gui infrastructure, which simply isn't there
>any no more :-(


Oh damn! I spent ages building my tracker-style sequencers and getting them to 
work with tot ;(

>your best bet would be to move to a "gui-plugin" (at least that's what i
>have done for my projects using [tot])


What do you mean a "gui-plugin"? Is this something new, or some other technique 
for getting the extended keyboard and mouse data from a window? Please tell 
all...

Cheers,
Ed


>
>gfmadsr
>IOhannes
>
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Re: [PD] electro-mechanical piano (player piano) - Arduino, Solenoid Issue

[Ed Kelly]

Oh, thanks.

That was dumb I didn't remember that!

Is it really 2 volts drop for an LED? I should know this stuff...
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Mikael Fernström 
>To: Ed Kelly  
>Cc: Charles Z Henry ; Epic Jefferson 
>; pd-list  
>Sent: Thursday, 8 August 2013, 0:26
>Subject: Re: [PD] electro-mechanical piano (player piano) - Arduino, Solenoid 
>Issue
> 
>
>
>note that you have to subtract the voltage drop over the LED, hence it's R = 
>(Vsupply - Vled)/ Iled, e.g. (5-2)/0.02 = 150 Ohm
>
>
>/Mikael
>
>
>
>
>On 8 Aug 2013, at 00:19, Ed Kelly  wrote:
>
>Check Ohm's law.
>>
>>
>>V=IR, so the resistor you choose is the voltage you provide to the LED 
>>divided by the current it draws.
>>
>>
>>e.g. if the LED draws 20mA and you power it from 5V, then the resistor you 
>>need is 5/0.02 = 250 ohms in series with the LED. This current is drawn from 
>>the positive voltage supply through the resistor and then the LED, and then 
>>the transistor.
>>
>>
>>This is a fairly good tutorial:
>>http://www.ehobbycorner.com/pages/tut_transistors.html
>>
>> 
>>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>>for iPhone and iPad
>>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: Charles Z Henry 
>>>To: Epic Jefferson  
>>>Cc: pd-list  
>>>Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 20:41
>>>Subject: Re: [PD] electro-mechanical piano (player piano) - Arduino, 
>>>Solenoid Issue
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Epic Jefferson 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hey Charles,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>it seems like this might work. i got some pnp transistors and built the 
>>>>circuit from julianvogels site.
>>>>The only problem is that the LED on the test circuit barely lit up. I think 
>>>>it's because the transistors are not for 20mA, none were available. i'll 
>>>>check another electronics store to see if i find some.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I think you just need smaller resistors.  Every transistor in a 3-pin 
>>>package I've ever seen could run 20mA or much greater.  Swapping the 
>>>transistors will have no effect on the amount of current.
>>>
>>>
>>>Chuck
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>>>There are two ways to solve your problem:
>>>>>
>>>>>The proper one is to use PNP transistors or P-channel mosfets (remember
>>>>>I already told you about that ? :))
>>>>>
>>>>>See this document, you can find the wiring at the end:
>>>>>http://julianvogels.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/stromkreis_transistorschaltung_final-1024x627.png
>>>>>
>>>>>http://julianvogels.de/extending-pwm-output-pins-with-a-texas-instruments-tlc5940-led-driver/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>The good enough one is to put a pull-up resistor (10k works) on every
>>>>>NPN transistor base, and use the TLC as a pull down. In this case, the
>>>>>on-time on the TLC corresponds to the off-time on the solenoid. Also
>>>>>when the arduino reboots and every time the BLANK is issued, every
>>>>>solenoid will act for a very short time. This can be a big problem
>>>>>in your project. I did this for a 96 channels motor+led strip system,
>>>>>and I regret not using PNPs instead.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Enjoy,
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Charles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Epic Jefferson wrote:
>>>>>> Hey guys,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> updating on this project. I got the pwm shields and i've hit a wall. The
>>>>>> driver circuit I'm using to control the solenoids via arduino is this one
>>>>>> from instructables
>>>>>> (link<http://www.instructables.com/id/Controlling-solenoids-with-arduino/)>)
>>>>>
>>>&

Re: [PD] electro-mechanical piano (player piano) - Arduino, Solenoid Issue

[Ed Kelly]

Check Ohm's law.

V=IR, so the resistor you choose is the voltage you provide to the LED divided 
by the current it draws.

e.g. if the LED draws 20mA and you power it from 5V, then the resistor you need 
is 5/0.02 = 250 ohms in series with the LED. This current is drawn from the 
positive voltage supply through the resistor and then the LED, and then the 
transistor.

This is a fairly good tutorial:
http://www.ehobbycorner.com/pages/tut_transistors.html

 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Charles Z Henry 
>To: Epic Jefferson  
>Cc: pd-list  
>Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 20:41
>Subject: Re: [PD] electro-mechanical piano (player piano) - Arduino,   
>Solenoid Issue
> 
>
>
>On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 12:05 AM, Epic Jefferson  
>wrote:
>
>Hey Charles,
>>
>>
>>it seems like this might work. i got some pnp transistors and built the 
>>circuit from julianvogels site.
>>The only problem is that the LED on the test circuit barely lit up. I think 
>>it's because the transistors are not for 20mA, none were available. i'll 
>>check another electronics store to see if i find some.
>>
>
>
>I think you just need smaller resistors.  Every transistor in a 3-pin package 
>I've ever seen could run 20mA or much greater.  Swapping the transistors will 
>have no effect on the amount of current.
>
>
>Chuck
>
>
> 
>
>>>There are two ways to solve your problem:
>>>
>>>The proper one is to use PNP transistors or P-channel mosfets (remember
>>>I already told you about that ? :))
>>>
>>>See this document, you can find the wiring at the end:
>>>http://julianvogels.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/stromkreis_transistorschaltung_final-1024x627.png
>>>
>>>http://julianvogels.de/extending-pwm-output-pins-with-a-texas-instruments-tlc5940-led-driver/
>>>
>>>
>>>The good enough one is to put a pull-up resistor (10k works) on every
>>>NPN transistor base, and use the TLC as a pull down. In this case, the
>>>on-time on the TLC corresponds to the off-time on the solenoid. Also
>>>when the arduino reboots and every time the BLANK is issued, every
>>>solenoid will act for a very short time. This can be a big problem
>>>in your project. I did this for a 96 channels motor+led strip system,
>>>and I regret not using PNPs instead.
>>>
>>>
>>>Enjoy,
>>>
>>>--
>>>Charles
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Epic Jefferson wrote:
 Hey guys,

 updating on this project. I got the pwm shields and i've hit a wall. The
 driver circuit I'm using to control the solenoids via arduino is this one
 from instructables
 (link)
>>>
 and
 it uses a single pin to control the pwm signal.

 The pwm shield 
 (link)
>>>
 is
 based on the tlc5940 which requires each pin to have it's own ground
 instead of a common ground across all drivers. This is a problem because
 all of the information i've found suggest that the signal from the pin
 controls the gate (transistor - TIP102). But i think, in the case of the
 tlc5940, the 5v supply is constant and the ground is being controlled,
 that's why it works perfectly for LED's but seems to be ill suited for this
 circuit.

 Any suggestions on how to modify the instructables circuit for use with the
 shields? or would the circuit have to completely change?
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- 
>>www.epicjefferson.com
>>www.avmachinists.org Puerto Rico based Art Collective/ Non-Profit Org 
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Re: [PD] How to reduce CPU use on unused subpatches-abstracts?

[Ed Kelly]

Whoa!

I wonder - this was a libpd app I made, and it definitely made a difference 
putting all the DSP on one layer, but it was complex and I may have missed a 
trick here. It runs on an iPhone, and I wonder if there is a difference in how 
that works. resolving abstractions and subpatches with audio dropped the CPU 
load on an iPhone 4 from 132% to 71%.

Unless teh people writing the GUI fixed a big bad bug without telling me? I 
didn't seem like that at the time...if it wasn't the case I could have saved 
myself some pain.

Cheers,
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Charles Z Henry 
>To: Roman Haefeli  
>Cc: pd-list  
>Sent: Wednesday, 7 August 2013, 21:48
>Subject: Re: [PD] How to reduce CPU use on unused subpatches-abstracts?
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Wed, Aug 7, 2013 at 2:57 AM, Roman Haefeli  wrote:
>
>On Wed, 2013-08-07 at 08:40 +0200, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
>>> On 08/07/13 03:15, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>> > Hmmm...  I was umnder the impression that, except for the overhead of 
>>> > block~
>>> > and switch~ objects, there would be no difference in DSP execution time
>>> > between a patch having lots of subpatches and one with the same amount of
>>> > computation all thrown in one window.  I haven't made any measurements but
>>> > theoreticall at least there shouldn't be any difference.
>>>
>>> i once did make measurements, and they showed that your assumption is
>>> correct.
>>>
>>> or at least, it showed that it *was* correct at that time. this was on a
>>> P2-400MHz in 1998 or so, where a 16 channel spatialization patch would
>>> eat about 95% of the CPU - regardless of whether you used a single huge
>>> patch or organized the code into subpatches/abstractions.
>>>
>>> eventually i went for using abstractions, and let the PC run at 95% for
>>> the 2 weeks show.
>>
>>I once made some informal tests to measure the overhead of [switch~]. It
>>turned out it is quite big and if you're running hundreds or thousands
>>instances of [switch~] you probably gain nothing by turning DSP off in
>>subpatches. I don't know what the sweet spot is it seems using [switch~]
>>is only worth for subpatches with a minimum amount of (DSP) complexity.
>>
>>Roman
>>
>
>
>I don't know why this is so...   
>When you add a [switch~] object, it adds a prologue and epilogue around the 
>perform routines from each object in the subpatch.  The runtime behavior is 
>just like [block~], except when the patch is switched off, the switch prologue 
>returns a pointer to the epilogue, instead of the next item in the dsp chain 
>(don't quote me--I may need to read some code to find exact behavior, but 
>that's the gist of it).
>
>
>To me, this is pretty minimal and reasonable.  Maybe there's an unintended 
>consequence like cache misses when skipping over part of the dsp chain.
>
>
>
> Chuck
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Re: [PD] How to reduce CPU use on unused subpatches-abstracts?

[Ed Kelly]

There is another catch with the CPU usage, which I only learned about while 
building a big libpd app. If you have subpatches within subpatches this is 
usually not a problem with control data. But, it really helps a lot within a 
patch if you put all the DSP objects on the same layer (i.e. without and audio 
subpatches).

Of course, the most CPU efficient patch will have no audio subpatches at all. I 
think the reason is that subpatch audio is calculated in a block within the 
subpatch, and this means a separate process from the master patch and takes 
more CPU time. I'm not 100% sure that's the case, but intuitively it seems to 
make sense.

Cheers,
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Mario Mey 
>To: J Oliver  
>Cc: pd-list@iem.at 
>Sent: Tuesday, 6 August 2013, 3:15
>Subject: Re: [PD] How to reduce CPU use on unused subpatches-abstracts?
> 
>
>Hi, J. Thanks for the response. Following some suggestion (from you, 
>Maelstorm, Servando Barreiro), I made some tests. I took the dare to 
>post your mail in the thread... maybe it's better to post there, if 
>anyone has the same problem or just wants to learn.
>
>Here is the thread: http://puredata.hurleur.com/viewtopic.php?pid=37895
>
>I answer your mail right there. Could you take a look?
>
>Anyway, as I writed there, I WILL CHECK IT AGAIN, AND I WILL DO SOME 
>OTHER TESTS.
>
>
>
>
>
>El 05/08/13 10:36, J Oliver escribió:
>> Hi Mario,
>>
>> There is a thread somewhere about connections vs. s/r & throw/catch, don't 
>> have time right now to search for it, but I'm sure it is there. If I 
>> remember correctly the overhead is not that big and you don't want to be 
>> connecting all that stuff by hand.
>>
>> In any case, there are other things to look for.
>>
>> If you are using graphics objects, or objects like env~ you might want to 
>> bring down the refresh rate. Are there any [metro 1] or similar objects 
>> lying around which you might have forgotten about?
>>
>> Do you have a lot of GOP? I am not sure this is entirely relevant, but it 
>> might be worth researching...
>>
>> Also, control operations do take some cpu. do you have a big control layer?
>>
>> J
>>
>>> Thanks, Roman, but I'm already using [switch~] inside each FX, to stop 
>>> processing the signal. I learned it some time ago, from here:
>>>
>>> http://puredata.hurleur.com/viewtopic.php?pid=35939#p35939
>>>
>>> But I think that [receive~] and [throw~] are still using CPU.
>>>
>>> I didn't try to use inlet~ and outlet~, because I have to make 400 
>>> conections at hand... that's why I asking first. If it will work, I'll do 
>>> it (or find a way to automatically do it)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> El 05/08/13 09:29, Roman Haefeli escribió:
 Hi Mario

 Check [switch~] and its help patch.

 Roman


 On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 09:03 -0300, Mario Mey wrote:
> Hi, there... I really need some help.
>
> I'm working on a looper-multi-effects (big) patch. It has more than,
> more or less, 100 stereo FXs. They are all inside the patch as
> abstracts. But, to avoid them to consume CPU, each one has a [switch~ 0]
> if it is not working. So, there're only two FX at a time, where the DSP
> is on. Something like this:
>
> Main patch:
>
> adc~
> |     \
> |     [s $0-pre-r]
> [s $0-pre-l]
>
> [catch~ $0-post-l]
> |         [catch~ $0-post-r]
> |        /
> [dac~]
>
> (the same for
>
> Each FX as file-abstracts (using [fx1 $0] to call them) inside the main
> patch:
>
> [r $1-pre-l]       [r $1-pre-r]
> |                  /
> [The-FX-itself.]
> |                  \
> [throw~ $1-post-l] [throw~ $1-post-r]
>
>
> [0(     [1(
> |       /
> [switch~]
>
>
> This technics DOES work very well.  Buuut... when having 100 FX at the
> same time (even not working), the CPU increase 15-20%. I repeat,
> there're only two FX working at the time. The rest are "turned-off".
>
> For now, the CPU use is:
>
> Ready-to-use, 2 FXs on, DSP on: 47%
> Recorded and playing 8 stereo-banks, 2 FXs being used, DSP on: 60 - 62%
> (I have quite a few XRUNS)
> Ready-to-use, 2 FXs on, DSP off: 7%
>
> As you can see, the non-signal processing is very low.
>
> What I think is that each FX is working when receiving and/or throwing
> signal (200 [receive~] and [throw~] objects)... even they are sending
> and/or processing nothing.
>
> Is there any other way to connect all the FXs to the main patch and to
> have a lower CPU consumption?
>
> Maybe [inlet~] and [outlet~] consume less CPU? (I should connect all the
> FX at hand... or find a aumotated way to do it)
>>>

Re: [PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"

[Ed Kelly]

>First click "Details >>" on your error message and post the output.

Doh! Of course. Sorry, I naturally distrust error reports having been brought 
up on Window$. 


Error messages are all the same in my patch:

invalid command name "pd"
invalid command name "pd"
    while executing
"pd [concat #hammergui _vised .x988db98.c 1 \;]"
    invoked from within
"if {[hammergui_ispatcher .x988db98.c]}   {pd [concat #hammergui _vised 
.x988db98.c 1 \;]}"
    (command bound to event)


I think the problem is with [tot .] from the miXed library.

Does anyone know how to compile it? It's causing me a headache. Typing "make" 
from within the miXed library from the svn repository comes up with errors 
where it can't seem to find basic functions, e.g.

tot.c:(.text+0xbcf): undefined reference to `gensym'
tot.c:(.text+0xbff): undefined reference to `canvas_getrootfor'
tot.c:(.text+0xc17): undefined reference to `canvas_getrootfor'
/tmp/ccctv252.o: In function `tot_getcanvas':
tot.c:(.text+0xc5b): undefined reference to `canvas_class'
tot.c:(.text+0xc69): undefined reference to `pd_findbyclass'
tot.c:(.text+0xc79): undefined reference to `glist_getcanvas'
tot.c:(.text+0xcb7): undefined reference to `loud_warning'
tot.c:(.text+0xd48): undefined reference to `loud_error'




It gives similar outpuit for tot, and for pddplink

?
Ed


> 
>-Jonathan
>
>  

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Re: [PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"

[Ed Kelly]

Aha. So I probably need to go through a process of elimination to discover 
which external is causing this, and then maybe we can fix it relatively simply 
by changing the "pd" to "pdsend" in the source code?

I dread to say anything like "relatively simple" - but these things needs to be 
sorted out incrementally. Will report back when I find anything...

Cheers,
Ed





>
> From: Jonathan Wilkes 
>To: pd-list@iem.at 
>Sent: Sunday, 28 July 2013, 17:08
>Subject: Re: [PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"
> 
>
>
>On 07/28/2013 09:39 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>
>Can anyone tell me what's causing this?
>>
>>
>>Screenshot enclosed.
>>
>>
>Probably an external that does its own messaging.
>Probably messaging between the GUI and pd.  See if
>you're using any non-Vanilla GUI object classes.
>
>Messages from the gui like "pd audio-properties"
>got changed to
>"pdsend audio-properties"
>with the big GUI code remix awhile back.  This
>_breaks_ user patches like yours and requires
>you or someone else to go in and make a permanent
>change to the source of the "offending" external.
>(And then that external will no longer work with old
>versions of Pd that expect "pd" instead of "pdsend".
>
>I guess I'll go ahead and say that you should view all
>non-Vanilla GUI classes as "expiremental" and "subject
>to arbitrary change", because they all use tcl/tk code inside
>that will probably break the next time someone separates
>more GUI from the core.
>
>-Jonathan
>
>
>Vanilla 0.44 on Debian Wheezy, with libraries...big patches with lots of GOP
>>
>>Ed
>> 
>>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>>for iPhone and iPad
>>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 
>>
>>
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[PD] Error: invalid command name "pd"

[Ed Kelly]

Can anyone tell me what's causing this?

Screenshot enclosed.

Vanilla 0.44 on Debian Wheezy, with libraries...big patches with lots of GOP

Ed

 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
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[PD] grunt

[Ed Kelly]

Apologies,

I Should never use the word "genius" when applied to myself. I am happy that I 
learned something new, and that's all that matters.

(naval gazing)

Ed


 
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[PD] whassup?

[Ed Kelly]

Hey dude,

I got the libPd problem fixed. non-audio events need to be aligned with block 
boundaries in the DSP chain. Otherwise you get single block loops in the audio 
output (buzzing) that you have no control over. Of course this happened with my 
custom clock generated from a phasor, (16ths, 24th notes etc) and I wrote the 
external to counteract clicks in the audio generated by the delay between an 
audio event and it's Pd clock time (catch 22, but I bypassed it eventually).

Still making it work on an iphone 4. Genius programming by me ;)
Ed

 
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Re: [PD] libPd hanging audio and other questions

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for your help. I know they're holding off the rewrite in OF 7 due to 
time and budgetary constraints, but we think there was another reason why it 
kept hanging.

A, external I wrote in C gives out sample accurate events (rather that 
block-aligned ones) as well as a signal. The outlet_float statements were 
embedded within the DSP loop. You can get away with this in Pd running on a 
computer, but it doesn't work on an iPhone.

This may be bad programming (I'm not sure - I taught myself) but it does cause 
Pd to crash when DSP is turned off in ofxPd on iOS. The DSP never got turned 
off and a chunk of audio was left looping, regardless of what the DSP chain was 
supposed to be doing, both in the simulator and on the device.

Anyhow, I re-coded the external using a Pd clock to block-align the events and 
the problem went away. And I have finally learned to use clocks in Pd external 
coding! Ah, what fun I'm going to have ,-)

Does anyone know what the standard blocksize for writing RT audio from memory 
to the SD card in an iPhone is? That's another problem we're facing. Drop-outs 
happen when recording, and we think it might be because we need to deal with 
the audio in certain size chunks, but we're not sure what that size might be. 
And do they have to synchronize with Pd's block size (i.e. 64 samples) in order 
for this to work?

Cheers,
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
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>________
> From: Dan Wilcox 
>To: Ed Kelly  
>Cc: Peter Brinkmann ; PD List 
>; Andrew Wallen  
>Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 17:17
>Subject: Re: libPd hanging audio
> 
>
>
>You could try the 007 tag: https://github.com/danomatika/ofxPd/releases, 
>everything after that will not work without some src modifications. (It may 
>not be that much).
>
>
>Personally, I would consider updating your version of OF. You'd need to remake 
>the xcode project, but the sound stuff is in a much better shape.
>
>On Jul 11, 2013, at 12:11 PM, Ed Kelly  wrote:
>
>Hi Dan,
>>
>>Thanks for quick response. Even with these compiler flags, we get the same 
>>result. On the same page there is this:
>>
>>
>>"RtAudio Hang on Exit in 0062
>>"RtAudio will hang on app exit in OF 0062. The only way to fix this is to 
>>make a small edit to the OF 0062 core by "editing 
>>lib/openFrameworks/sound/ofSoundStream.cpp and commenting line 143 so close() 
>>is not called."
>>
>>I'm not entirely sure which version we're using, but the ofSoundStream.cpp 
>>file is only 140 lines long.
>>If we upgrade to the latest
 ofxPd, will it still work with OF 6.2?
>>Cheers,
>>Ed
>>
>>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>>for iPhone and iPad
>>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>>
>>
>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: Dan Wilcox 
>>>To: Ed Kelly  
>>>Cc: Peter Brinkmann ; PD List 
>>>; Andrew Wallen  
>>>Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 16:52
>>>Subject: Re: libPd hanging audio
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>Howdy guys,
>>>
>>>See https://github.com/danomatika/ofxPd#for-xcode-1
>>>
>>>
>>>From my notes, I have: -DHAVE_UNISTD_H -DUSEAPI_DUMMY -DPD -dynamiclib -ldl 
>>>-lm
>>>
>>>
>>>I also added this to the libpd Github wiki: 
>>>https://github.com/libpd/libpd/wiki/libpd#build-settings
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Jul 11, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Ed Kelly  wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi Dan, Peter,
>>>>
>>>>I'm here with our ofxPd-based iPhone app, and we are getting a repeat of a 
>>>>particular problem listed here:
>>>>http://createdigitalnoise.com/discussion/150/pdbase-closepatch/p1
>>>>
>>>>Namely:
>>>>
>>>>> when closing a patch I would receive
 this message: sys_close_audio: unknown API 9
>>>>
>>>>and then we get a buzz, like a block of audio is being looped. We can't 
>>>>closePatch from the app code, nor can we turn DSP off from the app code.
>>>>
>>>>In the forum post mentioned above, Peter Brinkmann said this was due to 
>>>>incorrect compiler flags. Can you tell us what the compiler flags were and 
>>>>what they were changed to?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Caveat - we are still using openFrameworks 6.2.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Ed Kelly
>>>>
>>>>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and 
>>>>Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
>>>>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for
>>Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>>>http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>>
>>>
>>>Dan Wilcox
>>>@danomatika
>>>danomatika.com
>>>robotcowboy.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>Dan Wilcox
>@danomatika
>danomatika.com
>robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] libPd hanging audio

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for quick response. Even with these compiler flags, we get the same 
result. On the same page there is this:


"RtAudio Hang on Exit in 0062
"RtAudio will hang on app exit in OF 0062. The only way to fix this is to make 
a small edit to the OF 0062 core by "editing 
lib/openFrameworks/sound/ofSoundStream.cpp and commenting line 143 so close() 
is not called."

I'm not entirely sure which version we're using, but the ofSoundStream.cpp file 
is only 140 lines long.
If we upgrade to the latest ofxPd, will it still work with OF 6.2?
Cheers,
Ed

Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/


>____
> From: Dan Wilcox 
>To: Ed Kelly  
>Cc: Peter Brinkmann ; PD List 
>; Andrew Wallen  
>Sent: Thursday, 11 July 2013, 16:52
>Subject: Re: libPd hanging audio
> 
>
>
>Howdy guys,
>
>See https://github.com/danomatika/ofxPd#for-xcode-1
>
>
>From my notes, I have: -DHAVE_UNISTD_H -DUSEAPI_DUMMY -DPD -dynamiclib -ldl -lm
>
>
>I also added this to the libpd Github wiki: 
>https://github.com/libpd/libpd/wiki/libpd#build-settings
>
>
>
>On Jul 11, 2013, at 11:45 AM, Ed Kelly  wrote:
>
>Hi Dan, Peter,
>>
>>I'm here with our ofxPd-based iPhone app, and we are getting a repeat of a 
>>particular problem listed here:
>>http://createdigitalnoise.com/discussion/150/pdbase-closepatch/p1
>>
>>Namely:
>>
>>> when closing a patch I would receive this message: sys_close_audio: unknown 
>>> API 9
>>
>>and then we get a buzz, like a block of audio is being looped. We can't 
>>closePatch from the app code, nor can we turn DSP off from the app code.
>>
>>In the forum post mentioned above, Peter Brinkmann said this was due to 
>>incorrect compiler flags. Can you tell us what the compiler flags were and 
>>what they were changed to?
>>
>>
>>Caveat - we are still using openFrameworks 6.2.
>>
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Ed Kelly
>>
>>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>>for iPhone and iPad
>>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>>
>>
>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for
Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>
>
>Dan Wilcox
>@danomatika
>danomatika.com
>robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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[PD] libPd hanging audio

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Dan, Peter,

I'm here with our ofxPd-based iPhone app, and we are getting a repeat of a 
particular problem listed here:
http://createdigitalnoise.com/discussion/150/pdbase-closepatch/p1

Namely:

> when closing a patch I would receive this message: sys_close_audio: unknown 
> API 9

and then we get a buzz, like a block of audio is being looped. We can't 
closePatch from the app code, nor can we turn DSP off from the app code.

In the forum post mentioned above, Peter Brinkmann said this was due to 
incorrect compiler flags. Can you tell us what the compiler flags were and what 
they were changed to?

Caveat - we are still using openFrameworks 6.2.

Cheers,
Ed Kelly

Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


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Re: [PD] fof~?

[Ed Kelly]

Have you tried the csoundapi~ object? It's realtime CSound for Pd.

Ed

 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new music remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
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Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


>
> From: Jeppi Jeppi 
>To: "pd-list@iem.at"  
>Sent: Saturday, 1 June 2013, 12:50
>Subject: [PD] fof~?
> 
>
>
> 
>Hi people,
>I was looking for the [fof~] object but it doesn't seem to be available any 
>longer. Any hints?
>Any other sync/async granular stuff could do as well...
>
>
>Thanks in advance
>JosepM
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Re: [PD] Render a Gem window in [pd~] without dsp turned on

[Ed Kelly]

Hm. Perhaps you could use the CPU load to freeze video when it goes above 100%. 
Use the IEM version, which is more responsive than the built-in load meter.

An alternative would be to record an extra audio track using writesf~ with some 
synchronization data as audio, a bit like SMPTE used to work. Then at least you 
could framesync the audio in an NLE, somehow to track the frame you are 
recording via audio pulses of different frequencies - some signal derived from 
the frame number.

This is a problem I have faced many times, and although I tend to use two 
instances of Pd communicating with one another using netsend/netreceive, it's 
the same issue.

I haven't tried it yet, but I believe there is an external or something called 
"framesync"

Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new musix remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
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Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


- Original Message -
> From: Antonio Roberts 
> To: Max 
> Cc: PD list 
> Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 21:16
> Subject: Re: [PD] Render a Gem window in [pd~] without dsp turned on
> 
>>  i think in your scenario you should record from within Pd, e.g. using 
> writesf~ then even if you hear clips while you are recording they will not be 
> in 
> the recording.
> I understand that this will record the audio, but how would I then
> synchronise this with the video without resorting to guesswork?
> 
> Antonio
> 
> On 9 May 2013 10:15, Max  wrote:
>>  Am 08.05.2013 um 12:14 schrieb Antonio Roberts 
> :
  In order to make the pd~ process work without dsp you still need to 
> do a loadbang [pd dsp 1(, but then you may switch dsp off again after a 
> second 
> or so.
  this technique works well.
>>>  I've tried this, and it's an improvement but it still causes 
> clipping
>>>  in the audio.
>>> 
>>>  Essentially, what I'm trying to do is a screen recording of myself
>>>  using a patch. Nearly all screen recording software for Linux use Alsa
>>>  so I'm unable to record audio, due to PD locking Alsa when it's
>>>  running. So, I instead am using Jack and this script
>>>  http://pastebin.ca/2373980
>>> 
>>>  However, even by separating the audio and video using [pd~] I'm 
> still
>>>  getting clipping in the audio
>> 
>>  i think in your scenario you should record from within Pd, e.g. using 
> writesf~ then even if you hear clips while you are recording they will not be 
> in 
> the recording.
>> 
>>  m.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> anto...@hellocatfood.com
> http://www.hellocatfood.com
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables

[Ed Kelly]

Thanks Katja.

I'm doing things in a quick and dirty manner, to see if they work and so that 
they can be implemented quickly for the 100,000 or so downloads we've had, but 
I want to get it right. We'll have a testflight version next week so we'll be 
able to test the new version (it's like a heart transplant for the app).

The first thing is that it has to work with the limited resources of the 
iPhone4 (the most basic device we are supporting). The second is to make it 
better, so that we can move from tabread~ s to tabread4~s, but I think this'll 
be just for the iPhone5. I really want it to be super efficient, so I'll study 
your code.

Interesting that the original phasor~ relies on a double precision variable for 
the wrap. Sometime we need to move onto 128bit architecture, but probably not 
too soon ;)

Cheers,
Ed
 
PS thanks for answering the question I asked.
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new musix remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
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Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
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- Original Message -
> From: katja 
> To: Ed Kelly 
> Cc: PD List ; pddev 
> Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 10:12
> Subject: Re: [PD-dev] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading 
> tables
> 
> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Ed Kelly  wrote:
> 
>>  ...
>>  Does phasor~ always start from 0 and go to 1, i.e. is there always a signal 
> value of 0 at the start of the ramp and a signal value of 1 at the end? As I 
> write this, my common sense tells me it should be "yes" but I want to 
> make sure. I suppose I should just try it really...
>>  ...
> 
> 
> A [phasor~] ramp should start with the remainder after wrapping, which
> is non-zero in most cases.
> 
> For pd-double I had to rewrite [phasor~], and it turned out that an
> implementation with branching is more efficient on current Intel
> processors. ARM processors do branch predication, it could be
> efficient as well. You could try the code from here and put message
> triggers in the branches:
> 
> https://github.com/pd-projects/pd-double/blob/master/src/d_osc.c
> 
> 
> Katja
> 

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Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...

[Ed Kelly]

>
>Hi there, the silence about this is kinda worrying me. Seems to me we may pass 
>on this year, right?
>

Touche.

One thing to note - PDCon has always been about opportunity, not regularity. As 
Max showed last time (and all the others I've been to in fact) you have to have 
venue, funding and time. Tie-ins with other events are often springboards for 
PDCon as was the case with Dan's earlier emails regarding this (bear in mind he 
also has a PhD to do, so it may still happen).

Also, PDCon is seen as rather niche by institutions like ICMA, and AFIAK is not 
considered "worthy" enough in terms of research by some academic institutions*. 
So prior funding is vital.

Perhaps 3 years is a good timetable? 50% more research, papers, and time. We'll 
see. 2 years was ambitious given the current "global economic meltdown". 
Perhaps we could get Morgan Cha$e, Goldman $ach$ and Barclay$ to fund us, given 
that they've stolen all our money. Or we could crowdfund it (unlikely? how? 
ideas please!).

Cheers,
Ed

* The University where I work doesn't even fund me to go to the ICMC any more 
when my papers are accepted, but that's an exception I hope!

>2013/4/1 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>
>For those who don't know: "here" means Brazil.
>>
>>
>>
>>2013/4/1 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>>
>>On that matter, why don't we start discussing this. What I have to ask is, 
>>how good or bad can it be that the conventions start coming yearly but 
>>smaller? Is it better to wait 2-3 years for a bigger/blastfull one?
>>>
>>>I'm not sure about the answer.
>>>
>>>
>>>All I can say is what I've said before. We're planing to start an yearly 
>>>event here in 2012, and we could host pd in a similarly tied fashion - too 
>>>early to say how big it could be either.
>>>
>>>
>>>anyway, holding on for your thoughts before I start saying something ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>cheers
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>2013/3/27 Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>>
>>>
Golan Levin and Dan Wilcox are the people at CMU that would be the 
organizers.
 From what I've heard, they are interested in doing something, but probably 
a
smaller version, and tied to the VIA art festival, so the dates would only 
be
Oct 1-5:

http://www.via-pgh.com/

So we should decide whether that sounds workable, or whether we should just
focus all efforts on getting a full pdcon next year.

.hc


On 03/26/2013 10:33 AM, Epic Jefferson wrote:
> No answer?! Who is organizing?
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres
> wrote:
>
>> I was just gonna ask the same again :)
>>
>>
>> 2013/3/23 Epic Jefferson 
>>
>>> Has there been any progress on the date? and if the pd-con will be in
>>> Pittsburgh?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 15, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On 01/15/2013 12:44 PM, J Oliver wrote:
>>> first week of October
>>> 2013
>
> Is this the week starting on Oct 7th?
> J

 My guess is that its Sept 30 thru Oct 5th, but I'll double-check.

 .hc

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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> www.avmachinists.org Puerto Rico based Art Collective/ Non-Profit Org
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>

>>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables

[Ed Kelly]

This is what it used to look like (forgot to include the pic ;)
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new musix remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/ 


- Original Message -
> From: Ed Kelly 
> To: i go bananas ; Ivica Ico Bukvic 
> Cc: PD List ; pddev 
> Sent: Thursday, 9 May 2013, 14:33
> Subject: Re: [PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables
> 
> I figured out how to do this.
> 
> Generally the problem is this: the signals to run four independent tracks in 
> my 
> patch are all devised from one phasor~ object that scans a single bar of 
> material. Clicks then appear in the material when jumping from one bar to the 
> next, because the control events are quantized to the 64 samples of a block. 
> So 
> we get lines like the picture enclosed that read the material using tabread~.
> 
> In order to get rid of the clicks, I have an alternative method for reading 
> the 
> material _without_ adding any new DSP objects (this has to run on an iPhone 
> 4). 
> It involves the phasor~-esque object ramping from 0 to 8 over 8 bars or not, 
> depending on whether it is jumping around or smoothly reading the 2, 4 or 
> 8-bar 
> loop.
> 
> I already have this working - it has to detect when the ramp is crossed and 
> generate a clock signal from it for the intra-bar rhythms. I took phasorshot~ 
> as 
> my prototype, but that had the same problem as before, namely that non-signal 
> pulses are quantized to 64 sample blocks. I tried using clocks but they went 
> out 
> of sync while the tempo was being changed of course.
> 
> So, I built an object where all the clocks are derived from the phasor ramp, 
> but 
> sent out as control rather than DSP signals. It uses more CPU than phasor~ 
> does 
> (~70% more) but no matter how much you speed-up or slow down the phasor~ 
> on-the-fly, the clocks never go out-of-sync. It's called phasorbars~.
> 
> I'll be uploading a version of the external soon to svn, and anyone 
> who's downloaded Ninja Jamm for their i-device will get an update soon also.
> 
> Cheers,
> Ed
>> 
>> 
>> why not just make a half speed phasor~, retrigger the phase to zero with a 
> normal metro, and then multiply the output by 2?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic  wrote:
>> 
>> Assuming you want a pulse in non-signal domain, you could use disis_phasor~ 
> (see http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 for download links) which 
> outputs a bang every time ramp is crossed. This is only accurate to the 
> nearest 
> sigvs size (by default 64 bytes) as there is no guarantee that you will get a 
> msg interrupt exactly at the time ramp has crossed.
>>>  
>>> HTH
>>>  
>>> From:pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of 
> Ed Kelly
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:00 PM
>>> To: PD List; pddev
>>> Subject: [PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading 
> tables
>>>  
>>> Hi Lists(s),
>>>  
>>> I'm rewriting phasor~ and unifying it with metro so that a pulse is 
> generated from the boundaries of each ramp - so that bars of music can be 
> read 
> using tabread~ objects with a sample-accurate metro.
>>>  
>>> I'm sure someone will say this can already be done, but it has to be 
> dropped into the Ninja Jamm patch, so there isn't really time to rewrite the 
> rest of the patch.
>>>  
>>> I don't fully understand the way phasor~ wraps, but I have the 
> object firing out bar numbers correctly. I'm putting clocks in for 16ths and 
> 24ths of the beat, initiated on each wrap. I need to minimise CPU, so what I 
> want to know is this:
>>>  
>>> Does phasor~ always start from 0 and go to 1, i.e. is there always a 
> signal value of 0 at the start of the ramp and a signal value of 1 at the 
> end? 
> As I write this, my common sense tells me it should be "yes" but I 
> want to make sure. I suppose I should just try it really...
>>>  
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ed
>>>  
>>> Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new musix remix app from Ninja Tune and 
> Seeper, for iPhone and iPad
>>> http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
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> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
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Re: [PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables

[Ed Kelly]

I figured out how to do this.

Generally the problem is this: the signals to run four independent tracks in my 
patch are all devised from one phasor~ object that scans a single bar of 
material. Clicks then appear in the material when jumping from one bar to the 
next, because the control events are quantized to the 64 samples of a block. So 
we get lines like the picture enclosed that read the material using tabread~.

In order to get rid of the clicks, I have an alternative method for reading the 
material _without_ adding any new DSP objects (this has to run on an iPhone 4). 
It involves the phasor~-esque object ramping from 0 to 8 over 8 bars or not, 
depending on whether it is jumping around or smoothly reading the 2, 4 or 8-bar 
loop.

I already have this working - it has to detect when the ramp is crossed and 
generate a clock signal from it for the intra-bar rhythms. I took phasorshot~ 
as my prototype, but that had the same problem as before, namely that 
non-signal pulses are quantized to 64 sample blocks. I tried using clocks but 
they went out of sync while the tempo was being changed of course.

So, I built an object where all the clocks are derived from the phasor ramp, 
but sent out as control rather than DSP signals. It uses more CPU than phasor~ 
does (~70% more) but no matter how much you speed-up or slow down the phasor~ 
on-the-fly, the clocks never go out-of-sync. It's called phasorbars~.

I'll be uploading a version of the external soon to svn, and anyone who's 
downloaded Ninja Jamm for their i-device will get an update soon also.

Cheers,
Ed
>
>
>why not just make a half speed phasor~, retrigger the phase to zero with a 
>normal metro, and then multiply the output by 2?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic  wrote:
>
>Assuming you want a pulse in non-signal domain, you could use disis_phasor~ 
>(see http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56 for download links) which 
>outputs a bang every time ramp is crossed. This is only accurate to the 
>nearest sigvs size (by default 64 bytes) as there is no guarantee that you 
>will get a msg interrupt exactly at the time ramp has crossed.
>> 
>>HTH
>> 
>>From:pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of Ed 
>>Kelly
>>Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 5:00 PM
>>To: PD List; pddev
>>Subject: [PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables
>> 
>>Hi Lists(s),
>> 
>>I'm rewriting phasor~ and unifying it with metro so that a pulse is generated 
>>from the boundaries of each ramp - so that bars of music can be read using 
>>tabread~ objects with a sample-accurate metro.
>> 
>>I'm sure someone will say this can already be done, but it has to be dropped 
>>into the Ninja Jamm patch, so there isn't really time to rewrite the rest of 
>>the patch.
>> 
>>I don't fully understand the way phasor~ wraps, but I have the object firing 
>>out bar numbers correctly. I'm putting clocks in for 16ths and 24ths of the 
>>beat, initiated on each wrap. I need to minimise CPU, so what I want to know 
>>is this:
>> 
>>Does phasor~ always start from 0 and go to 1, i.e. is there always a signal 
>>value of 0 at the start of the ramp and a signal value of 1 at the end? As I 
>>write this, my common sense tells me it should be "yes" but I want to make 
>>sure. I suppose I should just try it really...
>> 
>>Cheers,
>>Ed
>> 
>>Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new musix remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
>>for iPhone and iPad
>>http://www.ninjajamm.com/
>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>___
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>>http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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>>
>
>
> 

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[PD] Rewriting a unified phasor / metro object for reading tables

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Lists(s),

I'm rewriting phasor~ and unifying it with metro so that a pulse is generated 
from the boundaries of each ramp - so that bars of music can be read using 
tabread~ objects with a sample-accurate metro.

I'm sure someone will say this can already be done, but it has to be dropped 
into the Ninja Jamm patch, so there isn't really time to rewrite the rest of 
the patch.

I don't fully understand the way phasor~ wraps, but I have the object firing 
out bar numbers correctly. I'm putting clocks in for 16ths and 24ths of the 
beat, initiated on each wrap. I need to minimise CPU, so what I want to know is 
this:

Does phasor~ always start from 0 and go to 1, i.e. is there always a signal 
value of 0 at the start of the ramp and a signal value of 1 at the end? As I 
write this, my common sense tells me it should be "yes" but I want to make 
sure. I suppose I should just try it really...

Cheers,
Ed
 
Ninja Jamm - a revolutionary new musix remix app from Ninja Tune and Seeper, 
for iPhone and iPad
http://www.ninjajamm.com/


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[PD] [PD-announce] Ninja Jamm

[Ed Kelly]

So, after a long silence...
Ninja Jamm, an iPhone/iPad app, is now available to download. I made the audio 
engine for it, using vanilla libPd with a few new objects for the project.

Enjoy!
Ed Kelly

(I may have been drunk. I may have forgot. I may have sent this email already, 
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[PD] [PD-announce] Ninja Jamm is released

[Ed Kelly]

Greetings. 

After 2 years of gestation, the Ninja Jamm iPhone app is finally released, 
running my Pure Data audio engine in libPd.

This iPhone app requires iOS 5 or 6, iPhone 4/iPad 2 or better. The app is now 
available in the itunes store.

Enjoy!
Ed Kelly
 
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[PD] GUI Overload - Update

[Ed Kelly]

Hi list,

An update on the sys_pollgui() fix Miller passed me...

It did work for abstractions within a single patch, but today I loaded two such 
GOP GUI intensive patches at once. The GUI seized up like it did before.
One of my abstractions changes the color of GUI elements as it's playing, and 
that showed the new state of the GUI element as the color was changed.

That's all I have.
Cheers,
Ed
 
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[PD] vsl hsl vradio and vu gone

[Ed Kelly]

Hi all,

Using the new Pd-extended on Ubuntu 10.04 - some objects aren't there.
It's clear I'll have to go through all my abstractions and add [import] objects 
for many things, but these are basic vanilla gui objects. How do I get them 
back?
vsl hsl vradio and vu  don't work, but the rest of the gui objects do (bang, 
number2 etc)


Ed
 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-extended 0.43.4 released!)

[Ed Kelly]

OK, so Pd-extended doesn't load any libs by default (except Gem of course).
I'd like to suggest a fix for a problem I've encountered, especially when 
moving patches. 

Would there be a reverse way of finding out what libs are missing from a patch? 
Even just to generate a file, it would be a good idea to be able to search the 
libs and find out what you need to [import] to get a patch made on pre 0.43 
Pd-extended to work.

Perhaps it could be an adaptation of the search plugin (nice work Jonathan ;-)

Ta,
Ed 

Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>To: Jonathan Wilkes  
>Cc: "pd-list@iem.at"  
>Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 17:42
>Subject: Re: [PD] standard library (was Re: [PD-announce] Pd-extended 0.43.4 
>released!)
> 
>On 01/31/2013 11:45 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>> To: pd-list@iem.at
>>> Cc: 
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:40 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-extended 0.43.4 released!
>>>
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>>> * new standard library that is larger and more consistent than what's in
>>> vanilla, things like all math and logic objects both message and signal
>>> included, rather than needed to load a library (i.e. zexy) for some of them.
>>> It would prioritize correctness and consistency over backwards 
>>> compatibility.
>> 
>> That's a royal waste of your time.  I'm certain you wouldn't advocate 
>> _moving_
>> objects from various libs to one standard lib-- as that would break backwards
>> compatability-- so you must be advocating copying them.  Both would have the
>> direct affect of confusing users-- the former by _breaking_ all kinds of 
>> help docs,
>> tutorials, and lots else that's more or less part of the "standard" Pd world 
>> at
>> this point; and the latter by returning two results in a search for an 
>> object that
>> happens to be in the standard library.  Either is also a royal waste of the 
>> users' time.
>> 
>> If there are specific objects inside zexy or hans that need to be superceded 
>> by
>> an object with a better design in order to get more consistency, or if there 
>> are
>> objects that haven't been created yet that would add needed functionality, 
>> let's
>> talk about those cases.  But [import hans zexy lib_to_be_coded] is a 
>> perfectly
>> reasonable interface for loading 90% of what the user needs, so let's not go
>> breaking stuff for the sake of theoretical consistency.  For the other 10% 
>> it's
>> just fine for the user to search for that functionality and use the prefix
>> that is shown in the search results, or click the "info" icon to read about 
>> the
>> relevant library, or use [import], or do all three.
>
>Yes, it'll be a chunk of work, but I strongly believe it'll be worthwhile.
>Python3 is a good example of this kind of thing.  All the existing libraries
>would remain as they are, so backwards compatibility would be fully available.
>
>I agree theoretical consistency is not a worthy goal, that's not the point
>here at all. [import zexy] is a good example.  Let's say a user is looking for
>objects to make and manipulate symbols, how about calling tat library
>"symboltricks" or something descriptive, rather than an arbitrary name 'zexy'.
>In python, if I want to work with URLs, I load a 'urllib' or maybe 'urllib2'.
>
>The point is that the old way of organizing libraries was around the author,
>not what the library does, like zexy.  Newer libs like iemguts, pmpd, log,
>etc. are organized around a topic, and that makes much more sense.  That's a
>very widely established paradigm for libraries across basically all languages.
>
>Honestly, in the long run I think this will be less work than maintaining the
>system as it is now.  There are so many exceptions and quirks that is really
>is hard to make progress because some forgotten quirk comes back and bites you.
>
>>> * no libraries but the standard library loaded by default.
>>>
>>> * the possibility to load "distro profiles" for compatibilityYes, it'll be 
>>> a chunk of work, but I strongly believe it'll be worthwhile.  Python3 is a 
>>> good example of this kind of thing.  All the existing libraries would 
>>> remain as they are, so backwards compatibility would be fully available. 
>>> with 
>>> Pd-vanilla
>>> and Pd-extended
>>>
>>> * all of Pd-vanilla's objects as a separate 'vanilla' library.
>> 
>> In the search plugin I'm judging vanilla objects based on
>> whether the help patch is inside 5.reference, and returning
>> them first in the results.  I asked you awhile back if the
>> subdirs in "doc" are subject to change and you said they
>> were a standard part of Pd that wasn't likely to change.
>> If want the "vanilla" lib for the sake of consistency,
>> you won't get it because the vanilla help patches must
>> remain in 5.reference.  If you copy them to vanilla/ again
>> you woul

Re: [PD] motion-tracking (was Re: help)

[Ed Kelly]

Sujay,

Try sending the output of the pix_blob through a [mavg 5]

Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig 
> To: pd-list@iem.at
> Cc: 
> Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2013, 8:42
> Subject: [PD] motion-tracking (was Re:  help)
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> On 2013-01-23 14:55, Sujay Mukherjee wrote:
>>  hi i am new to Pd
> 
> welcome.
> 
> please don't use generic subjects like "help" or "i have a 
> question".
> most people who write on this list either have a question or try to
> answer one. imagine what would happen if all of those would use the
> subject "help" or "answer". anyhow this is all explained at 
> [1], which
> you probably should read.
> 
>>  i am trying to work with motion tracking in Pd I am using pix_rgba
>>  ,pix_movement,and pix-blob to get nos out of the pix_blob but when
>>  I am feeding it to a rectangle the movement is very wobbly is there
>>  any other way to track motion
> 
> 
> [pix_movement]/[pix_blob] is just a standard way to get movement data
> from an image. [pix_movement2] is another.
> there are some openCV objects out there as well (look for pix_opencv),
> which might have more sophisticated tracking algorithms (e.g. based on
> shape).
> 
> but in all these cases: if the output signal is too noisy, you should
> try to reduce the noise by applying a filter: filters are the magic of
> tracking.
> 
> fgamsdr
> IOhannes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [1] http://puredata.info/community/lists/Netiquette
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> 
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> YWMAoL1ts/ShY0qNzASGK/Kfsw43srUz
> =9hUw
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-extended 0.43.4 release candidate 1: last chance to report your bugs

[Ed Kelly]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before...

On Ubuntu Lucid (10.04LTS) Pd-extended-0.43 deb from the launchpad.net 
repository.
Pd won't start properly in that it complains that it need Tcl/Tk8.5.
Tcl/Tk8.5 is installed, but so is Tcl/Tk8.4. 

(Tcl) UNHANDLED ERROR: version conflict for package "Tk": have 8.4, need 8.5

    while executing
"package require Tk 8.5"
    ("uplevel" body line 10)
    invoked from within
"uplevel #0 $tclcode"FAILED TO LOAD 
/usr/lib/pd-extended/extra/search-plugin/search-plugin.tcl

So I tried changing the symlinks in /usr/lib to point to 8.5. This
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 2013-01-24 09:45 libtk.a -> libtk8.5.a
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 11 2013-01-24 09:45 libtk.so -> libtk8.5.so

Still no good.
Could Pd-extended be made to force the use of the 8.5 libs?

Ed

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[PD] Fw: Help to load sound

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Romain,


Please also read the other posts about the -maxsize option for soundfiler.
Sound quality for readsf~ is as good as it gets. The only difference is it 
reads the ound from the disk as it is playing, and this is better in that you 
can load a soundfile while playing the patch without dropouts. When you load a 
file into an array or [table] using soundfiler, the audio switches off for a 
moment, so you have to load all sounds before you start playing. With readsf~ 
you can load a new sound in the middle of a performance without affecting the 
audio.


Best,
Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
>> From: romain.darracq 
>>To: Ed Kelly  
>>Sent: Monday, 14 January 2013, 10:51
>>Subject: Re: [PD] Help to load sound
>> 
>>
>>Hello ed,
>>
>>Thank you, I understand more how to load sound with [resize] object, and I 
>>found  object to find lenght of the sound.
>>And I test
[readsf~] object, you are right, it's more easy to Load with it, but I would 
like to know if the sound quality is maximal with [readsf~] ??
>>
>>Romain
>>
>>
>>> Message du 13/01/13 18:42
>>>> De : "Ed Kelly" 
>>>> A : "Ingo" , "'romain.darracq'" 
>>>> Copie à : "pd-list@iem.at" 
>>>> Objet : Re: [PD] Help to load sound
>>>>
>>>> 
>>>It is, by default 400. You can load larger files by changing the message 
>>>to soundfiler from:
>>>
>>>> 
>>>[read -resize myfile.wav sound(
>>>
>>>> 
>>>to
>>>
>>>> 
>>>[sound resize 800;
>>>read myfile.wav sound(
>>>
>>>> 
>>>In short, you resize a table manually to some number of samples (here it's 
>>>800) before you load a soundfile into it.
>>>I believe there is an object called soundfileinfo~ or something that gives 
>>>you the length of a soundfile...but I can't remember off the top of my head 
>>>what it's called or where it is in pd-extended
>>>
>>>> 
>>>Alternatively, if you don't want to use the soundfile as though it were a 
>>>table (i.e. if you  just want to play the file) it's better to use [readsf~]
>>>
>>>> 
>>>Ed
>>>
>>>> 
>>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>
>>>>
>>>>From: Ingo 
>>>>> To: 'romain.darracq' ; 'Ingo' 
>>>>> Cc: pd-list@iem.at 
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013,  14:31
>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] Help to load sound
>>>>>  
>>>>> There is a size limit for the file. I'm not sure whether this is 400 
>>>>> or
>>>>> anything else. Sombody else here might know.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ingo
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> > Thank for your answer, I will trying to modificate my own error but now
>>>>> > the error message say:
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > error:
soundfiler_read: truncated to 400 elements
>>>>> > ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > when I load sound with [soundfiler] and [tabread~ sound].
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > I hope that my message is enough clear to permit you to understand 
>>>>> > what's
>>>>> > wrong
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > Thanks to take the time to help me.
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > Romain
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> >> Message du 13/01/13 12:47
>>>>> >> De : "Ingo" 
>>>>> >> A : "'romain.darracq'" , pd-list@iem.at
>>>>> >> Copie à : 
>>>>> >> Objet : AW: [PD] Help to load sound
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Try to use a name and path without spaces.
>>>>> >> Try the most simple path first like e.g. "C:\\Shake.mp3".
>>>>> >> 
>>>>> >> Out of the
objects that you named only [mp3play~] can play back MP3s.
>>>>> >>Make sure it is a "MP3 layer III" - otherwise it won't work.
>>>>> >> You could convert it to WAV for the others to be able to read it.
>>>>> >> 
>>>>> >> Ingo
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > Hello everybody,
>>>>> > I'm starting pd, and i have always the same matter when I want to load a
>>>>> > sound, pd say me: (error: dsp: C:/Documents and
>>>>> > Settings/Romain/Bureau/matrice perso/SON/musikkk/Remko Scha - (1982)
>>>>> Machine
>>>>> > Guitars/01 Shake.mp3: unknown or bad header format) and for all format
>>>>> > althrough i used [readsf~] or [mp3play~] or [soundfiler]  
>>>>> > objects
>>>>> > I have an other error's message :(error: endianness neither 'b' nor 'l'
>>>>> > ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.) ?
>>>>> > If someone can help me ??
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > Thanks
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > Romain
>>>>> > 
>>>>> > 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ___
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> 

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Re: [PD] Help to load sound

[Ed Kelly]

Ah. Tings have moved on and I wasn't paying attention!
Great,
Ed
 
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- Original Message -
> From: Jack 
> To: pd-list@iem.at
> Cc: 
> Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 18:36
> Subject: Re: [PD] Help to load sound
> 
> Le 13/01/2013 19:16, IOhannes zmölnig a écrit :
>>  On 01/13/2013 06:42 PM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>>  It is, by default 400. You can load larger files by changing the
>>>  message to soundfiler from:
>>> 
>>>  [read -resize myfile.wav sound(
>>> 
>>>  to
>>> 
>>>  [sound resize 800;
>>>  read myfile.wav sound(
>> 
>>  or use
>>  [read -resize -maxsize 800 myfile.wav sound(
>>  |
>>  [soundfiler]
>> 
>>  gfmysdr
>>  IOhannes
>> 
>>  ___
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> 
> it seems the option -resize is no longer needed (here with Pd
> 0.43.2test1 on Ubuntu 12.04).
> ++
> 
> Jack
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Help to load sound

[Ed Kelly]

It is, by default 400. You can load larger files by changing the message to 
soundfiler from:

[read -resize myfile.wav sound(

to

[sound resize 800;
read myfile.wav sound(

In short, you resize a table manually to some number of samples (here it's 
800) before you load a soundfile into it.
I believe there is an object called soundfileinfo~ or something that gives you 
the length of a soundfile...but I can't remember off the top of my head what 
it's called or where it is in pd-extended

Alternatively, if you don't want to use the soundfile as though it were a table 
(i.e. if you just want to play the file) it's better to use [readsf~]

Ed

Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: Ingo 
>To: 'romain.darracq' ; 'Ingo'  
>Cc: pd-list@iem.at 
>Sent: Sunday, 13 January 2013, 14:31
>Subject: Re: [PD] Help to load sound
> 
>There is a size limit for the file. I'm not sure whether this is 400 or
>anything else. Sombody else here might know.
>
>Ingo
>
>
>
>> Thank for your answer, I will trying to modificate my own error but now
>> the error message say:
>> 
>> error: soundfiler_read: truncated to 400 elements
>> ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
>> 
>> when I load sound with [soundfiler] and [tabread~ sound].
>> 
>> I hope that my message is enough clear to permit you to understand what's
>> wrong
>> 
>> Thanks to take the time to help me.
>> 
>> Romain
>
>
>>> Message du 13/01/13 12:47
>>> De : "Ingo" 
>>> A : "'romain.darracq'" , pd-list@iem.at
>>> Copie à : 
>>> Objet : AW: [PD] Help to load sound
>>>
>>> Try to use a name and path without spaces.
>>> Try the most simple path first like e.g. "C:\\Shake.mp3".
>>> 
>>> Out of the objects that you named only [mp3play~] can play back MP3s.
>>>Make sure it is a "MP3 layer III" - otherwise it won't work.
>>> You could convert it to WAV for the others to be able to read it.
>>> 
>>> Ingo
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hello everybody,
>> I'm starting pd, and i have always the same matter when I want to load a
>> sound, pd say me: (error: dsp: C:/Documents and
>> Settings/Romain/Bureau/matrice perso/SON/musikkk/Remko Scha - (1982)
>Machine
>> Guitars/01 Shake.mp3: unknown or bad header format) and for all format
>> althrough i used [readsf~] or [mp3play~] or [soundfiler] objects
>> I have an other error's message :(error: endianness neither 'b' nor 'l'
>> ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.) ?
>> If someone can help me ??
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Romain
>> 
>> 
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page

[Ed Kelly]

May I make a suggestion?

If PD Meta contained a list of objects, and a short description of each 
object's function, it could be dynamically parsed into an XML document, the PD 
object list we've been arguing about in FLOSSmanuals could be generated by a 
PHP script, and so always up-to-date. It could be part of the autobuild process 
for pd-extended to generate this file.

Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: Jonathan Wilkes 
>To: João Pais ; Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> 
>Cc: Pd List  
>Sent: Monday, 7 January 2013, 22:23
>Subject: Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page
> 
>- Original Message -
>
>> From: João Pais 
>> To: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; Jonathan Wilkes 
>> 
>> Cc: Pd List 
>> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2013 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page
>> 
>>>  You can see the categories if you scroll down to the bottom of the search 
>> plugin.
>>>  They aren't hierarchical so there's no need for sub-categories.
>>> 
>>>  These are just categories I came up with off the top of my head.  Feel 
>>>free 
>> to
>>>  suggest additions, deletions, better descriptions, or any objects I may 
>> have
>>>  missed.
>> 
>> I'll do that.
>> 
>> is there a way of reporting which libraries are missing the meta data? I can 
>> try 
>> to ask their authors, or fill it in myself.
>
>If you're talking about LIBNAME-meta.pd, I'm not sure what the spec is for 
>that.
>Looks something like this:
>
>NAME libname
>DESCRIPTION short description of library
>VERSION 0.1 or whatever
>AUTHOR Foo Bar
>
>But why do we need "NAME"?  The library name is just the directory
>name.  Also, some of the old ones have a "META blah blah" comment
>and I'm not sure what its purpose is.
>
>But if you're talking missing the [pd META] inside each OBJECT-help.pd,
>put those as bugs on the tracker.  Make sure to check it first as I've already
>added several.
>
>-Jonathan
>
>> starting with the jmmmp library, I 
>> know where that guy lives.
>> 
>> João
>> 
>
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Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page

[Ed Kelly]

- Original Message -
> From: Martin Peach 
> To: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> Cc: Pd List 
> Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2013, 4:23
> Subject: Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page
> 
> On 2013-01-05 22:36, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>> 
>>  On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:22 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> 
>>>  - Original Message -
>>> 
>>>>  From: Ed Kelly 
>>>>  To: Jonathan Wilkes ; Hans-Christoph 
> Steiner 
>>>>  Cc: Pd List 
>>>>  Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 5:18 PM
>>>>  Subject: Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page
>>>> 
>>>>  OK, no need to fight. This is about a version of Pd-extended that 
> has been a
>>>>  very long time coming, that had many issues to resolve, that went 
> offline and
>>>>  was unavailable at the start of the workshops I teach. I also 
> can't get my
>>>>  students to download a version of Pd-extended that isn't 
> finished and
>>>>  won't run on their machine. This is their first experience of 
> programming.
>>>>  They'll give up straight away!
>>> 
>>>  Of course.  I'm just giving you a beginner's perspective;  
> it's my own
>>>  memory of that perspective that drives me to work on tools which are 
> currently
>>>  only marginally useful to me personally.  The supermajority of 
> discontent
>>>  among your students tells me that this perspective hasn't changed 
> much.
>>>  By far, that is currently the fault of the software-- the documentation 
> is
>>>  currently too slim and core pd building blocks (and interface) too 
> crude
>>>  for the question "how do I find more objects" to be anything 
> like an ancillary
>>>  question.
>>> 
>>>  A static out-of-date list is better than nothing, but as far as 
> potential dev
>>>  energy I'd really rather see that put into core docs like the ones 
> listed
>>>  on the bug tracker, which are extremely lacking.  That FLOSS list will 
> hopefully
>>>  become obsolete, but the help docs won't-- even if they're 
> dropped from
>>>  Pd-extended they're still publicly available.
>>> 
>>>  -Jonathan
>> 
>>  While I have agreed and disagreed with various points in this discussion, I 
> think Jonathan's two paragraphs above sum up my feelings on this topic too.  
> Jonathan has put together a really great system for help from the meta data 
> to 
> the search plugin, now we need to put actual content and meta data in our 
> help 
> patches and it'll all be findable in a multitude of ways.  All this could 
> even be used to generate the static listing in the FLOSS manuals: just take 
> the 
> object name, then get the library and description from the [pd META].
>> 
> 
> Yeah, and we need the spec for [Pd META] to be known.
> For devs maybe en entry in the externals HOWTO?
> 

There are some great ideas here that need further investigation.

1) Generation of static web documentation from [Pd META]. It's the only way 
such online documentation could be kept up-to-date as Pd is indeed a "moving 
target"

2) This would require [Pd META] to contain more information than just the 
library name, author and version. Since this is already universally applied 
across Pd extended, it's ready to be modified and extended. Does this sound 
like a good idea?

Ed
> Martin
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...

[Ed Kelly]

It always the 1st week of October, but life is precarious in UK institutions.

But like I said, chip in if you know. It's early planning now, but we're 
organizing this. If I still have a job next year (which is looking quite 
uncertain) then it'll start then (most probably). Even if I do, an 
international conference would be a good excuse to be away.

I am only speaking for myself, but others need to speak up. If it could be the 
first week of Sept it would be safer for all on this side of the pond...

Best, and more data needed,
Ed



Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: Max 
>To: Ed Kelly  
>Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; Pd List  
>Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2013, 15:03
>Subject: Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...
> 
>Ed, just be careful 9 months ahead of that date please.
>
>
>Am 06.01.2013 um 11:09 schrieb Ed Kelly :
>
>> AFAIK the week beginning the 22nd would be OK for most, although my 
>> girlfriend tells me she starts in that week.
>> 
>> 
>> Perhaps anyone else could chip in at this point if there's a problem with 
>> those dates...
>> 
>> Ed
>> 
>>  
>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>> To: Ed Kelly 
>>> Cc: Pd List 
>>> Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2013, 3:41
>>> Subject: Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I had a feeling that was the case.  Would the week before be possible?
>>> 
>>> .hc
>>> 
>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The first week of October really sucks for anyone working in a UK 
>>> university (it's the first week of the teaching year). Not sure about other 
>>> European (sic) nations...
>>>> 
>>>> Ed
>>>>  
>>>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> - Original Message -
>>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>>>> To: Pd List 
>>>>> Cc: 
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2013, 22:04
>>>>> Subject: [PD] the next PdCon in...
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Its time to start talking about the next PdCon! I was just talking with 
>>> Golan 
>>>>> Levin and Dan Wilcox about the possibility of having the next PdCon at 
>>> Carnegie 
>>>>> Mellon University in Pittsburgh.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One possibility is having it coincide and partner with a local music 
>>> and new 
>>>>> media festival in the first week of october: 
>>>>> http://www.via-pgh.com/festival/2012/
>>>>> 
>>>>> Is that workable for people?  Any other discussion about other possible 
>>> 
>>>>> locations?
>>>>> 
>>>>> .hc
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>>> 
>> 
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>
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Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...

[Ed Kelly]

AFAIK the week beginning the 22nd would be OK for most, although my girlfriend 
tells me she starts in that week.


Perhaps anyone else could chip in at this point if there's a problem with those 
dates...

Ed

 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> To: Ed Kelly 
> Cc: Pd List 
> Sent: Sunday, 6 January 2013, 3:41
> Subject: Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...
> 
> 
> I had a feeling that was the case.  Would the week before be possible?
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 8:51 PM, Ed Kelly wrote:
> 
>>  The first week of October really sucks for anyone working in a UK 
> university (it's the first week of the teaching year). Not sure about other 
> European (sic) nations...
>> 
>>  Ed
>>   
>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  - Original Message -
>>>  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>>  To: Pd List 
>>>  Cc: 
>>>  Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2013, 22:04
>>>  Subject: [PD] the next PdCon in...
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Hey all,
>>> 
>>>  Its time to start talking about the next PdCon! I was just talking with 
> Golan 
>>>  Levin and Dan Wilcox about the possibility of having the next PdCon at 
> Carnegie 
>>>  Mellon University in Pittsburgh.
>>> 
>>>  One possibility is having it coincide and partner with a local music 
> and new 
>>>  media festival in the first week of october: 
>>>  http://www.via-pgh.com/festival/2012/
>>> 
>>>  Is that workable for people?  Any other discussion about other possible 
> 
>>>  locations?
>>> 
>>>  .hc
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Re: [PD] GUI overload

[Ed Kelly]

> As far as freezes-- with the -rt flag isn't Pd running at a higher

> priority than the x server?

Oh yes, you're right about that. Consider that irrelevant to the original GUI 
overload issue.

Ed

> 
> 
> -Jonathan
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
>>  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>  To: Ed Kelly 
>>  Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" ; Miller Puckette 
> 
>>  Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:36 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>> 
>> 
>>  What would be very useful for me for debugging is if your patch ran on 
> plain 
>>  Pd-extended, and included every object outside of Pd-extended it needs to 
> run.  
>>  When I open your Test.perf patch, I get quite a few errors amount missing 
>>  objects.
>> 
>>  .hc
>> 
>>  On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:05 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>> 
>>>   One other occasion where I used to have the same thing happen to me 
> which 
>>  might shed some light on the situation.
>>> 
>>>   Remember Brazil? I tried all evening to get my GUI-intensive patches 
>>  working. Fortunately we did, in the end, get some music. It was all down to 
> that 
>>  pesky firewire interface, using Jack.
>>> 
>>>   I had to run Pd in -rt mode, and I have found that running Pd in -rt 
> often 
>>  causes the GUI to seize up completely in my patches, in exactly the same 
> way as 
>>  it did for the latest one. I don't use Jack any more, nor do I ever run 
> Pd 
>>  in -rt mode. Without -rt I find I can do things like create a new [table] 
> object 
>>  and copy audio data from a recording of the [adc~] into the table, without 
> any 
>>  audio dropouts.
>>>    
>>>   Ed;
>>> 
>>>   Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>>   http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   - Original Message -
>>>>   From: Miller Puckette 
>>>>   To: Ed Kelly 
>>>>   Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; 
>>  "pd-list@iem.at" 
>>>>   Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 4:18
>>>>   Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>>>> 
>>>>   So now a question for me is - should I change || to + in the 0.44
>>>>   release?  My first impulse is to hold off since I can't be 
> sure it
>>>>   won't affect scheduling in some other unknown way - after al 
> if it 
>>  makes
>>>>   one thing happen faster it presumably makes something else happen
>>>>   slower.
>>>> 
>>>>   I'm hoping to make 0.44 official this weekend :)
>>>> 
>>>>   M
>>>> 
>>>>   On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:44AM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>>>>   Oooh, aargh, exactly the same!
>>>>> 
>>>>>   San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's 
> sys_pollgui() 
>>  fix is 
>>>>   the only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why 
> it 
>>  works, but 
>>>>   it works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to 
> 
>>  update when 
>>>>   the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely 
> convinced 
>>  that is 
>>>>   the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI 
> updates) 
>>  worked 
>>>>   fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try 
> to 
>>  counteract 
>>>>   this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still 
> had 
>>  the 
>>>>   problem.
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and 
> extended - 
>>  is there 
>>>>   any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be?
>>>>> 
>>>>>   Ed
>>>>>    
>>>>>   Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with 
> dynamics!
>>>>>   http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>   - Original Message -
>>>>>>   From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>>>>>   To: Ed Kelly 
>>>>>>   Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" 
>>>>>>   Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08
>>>>>>   Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>   Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid 
> 
>>  package 
>>>>   there:
>

Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page

[Ed Kelly]

OK, no need to fight. This is about a version of Pd-extended that has been a 
very long time coming, that had many issues to resolve, that went offline and 
was unavailable at the start of the workshops I teach. I also can't get my 
students to download a version of Pd-extended that isn't finished and won't run 
on their machine. This is their first experience of programming. They'll give 
up straight away!

It sounds like it will be finished soon, and then we can all relax. Until then 
anything I can do to help my students achieve some traction with Pd, including 
pointing to a list of objects - until search is finished AND in the release 
version, is pedagogically valid.

PS - I think they learned more this year than they did last year.

best,
Ed

 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: Jonathan Wilkes 
> To: Ed Kelly ; Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> Cc: Pd List 
> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 17:37
> Subject: Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page
> 
> ----- Original Message -
> 
>>  From: Ed Kelly 
>>  To: Jonathan Wilkes ; Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> 
>>  Cc: Pd List 
>>  Sent: Friday, January 4, 2013 8:47 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page
>> 
>>>   Also notice that neither you nor I are the least bit interested in 
> fixing 
>>  these
>> 
>>>   problems in the FLOSS manual, and we're especially not interested 
> in 
>>  taking
>>>   it on as a long term project.  Who does that leave?  If it leaves 
> anyone
>>>   wouldn't their time be better spent fixing the doc problems listed 
> on 
>>  the 
>>>   tracker
>>>   than etching in stone a description of a moving target?
>> 
>> 
>>  Well, if you have to teach Pd to art students who are used to using 
> Photoshop 
>>  and Final Cut Pro (as I do) the FLOSS manual page is very useful to give 
> them 
>>  some idea of what the objects are. It may not be 100% accurate, but at 
> least it 
>>  is (only) a start. I do hope that the search mechanism replaces static docs 
> 
>>  conceptually, but here is why they should be kept.
>> 
>>  Learning Pd from scratch is not easy unless you are already a computer 
>>  scientist. "How do I know what the objects are called" is I 
> agree, the 
>>  wrong question in so many ways.
> 
> Pd is basically just rectangles containing words, connected by lines.  Each 
> box
> should do one thing and do it well, to draw from the unix philosophy.  Lines
> connect the input of one box to another so that complex problems may be solved
> by combining many simple, clearly-defined building blocks to one another.
> 
> Aside from the particulars of controlling the flow of data through the 
> diagram,
> what other question is there than, "How do I know what the objects are 
> called?"
> 
>>  However, 80% of my undergraduate students 
>>  basically give up at that point if they can't find the answer, and 
> probably 
>>  60% of my masters students, often after saying "I hate Pd".
> 
> Of course they might also have just found out what happens when you try
> to click "Undo" more than once in a row.  Or they projected a patch on 
> a
> screen for a demo and tried to enlarge the patch by making the fonts
> bigger, and Pd mocked them by making a mess because well, they didn't
> tell Pd to also scale the x,y positions and Pd isn't about to make any
> assumption at all about what the user wants because then it would be
> coddling them.
> 
> Also they can't change the colors.  Also in tk 8.4 the fonts hurt their 
> eyes.
> Also the tk menus respond to clicks in a slightly different way than native
> tk menus.  Also moving an array (which also is limited to black and white)
> not only causes dropouts but animates with speed similar to an Apple II.
> Also every time they load a soundfile they are in danger of a dropout.
> 
> Also patches look slightly different on different machines so that Alice may
> send perfectly designed patches to Bob but Bob sees overlapping text
> and wonders silently why Alice is so sloppy.
> 
> Also any time they consider improving any of this behavior they are faced
> with a graveyard of revisions by people much smarter than they are which
> are way more elegant than anything they'd ever come up with.
> 
> Pd _clearly_ hates them from their perspective.  Provably, because as you
> said they're already using advanced software that has tons of quality
> documentation and teams of devs devoted to caring about how well-designed
> the in

Re: [PD] GUI overload

[Ed Kelly]

One other occasion where I used to have the same thing happen to me which might 
shed some light on the situation.

Remember Brazil? I tried all evening to get my GUI-intensive patches working. 
Fortunately we did, in the end, get some music. It was all down to that pesky 
firewire interface, using Jack.

I had to run Pd in -rt mode, and I have found that running Pd in -rt often 
causes the GUI to seize up completely in my patches, in exactly the same way as 
it did for the latest one. I don't use Jack any more, nor do I ever run Pd in 
-rt mode. Without -rt I find I can do things like create a new [table] object 
and copy audio data from a recording of the [adc~] into the table, without any 
audio dropouts.
 
Ed;

Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: Miller Puckette 
> To: Ed Kelly 
> Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; "pd-list@iem.at" 
> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 4:18
> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
> 
> So now a question for me is - should I change || to + in the 0.44
> release?  My first impulse is to hold off since I can't be sure it
> won't affect scheduling in some other unknown way - after al if it makes
> one thing happen faster it presumably makes something else happen
> slower.
> 
> I'm hoping to make 0.44 official this weekend :)
> 
> M
> 
> On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:44AM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>  Oooh, aargh, exactly the same!
>> 
>>  San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's sys_pollgui() fix is 
> the only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why it works, but 
> it works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to update 
> when 
> the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely convinced that is 
> the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI updates) worked 
> fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try to 
> counteract 
> this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still had the 
> problem.
>> 
>>  Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and extended - is there 
> any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be?
>> 
>>  Ed
>>   
>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  - Original Message -
>>  > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>  > To: Ed Kelly 
>>  > Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" 
>>  > Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08
>>  > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>>  > 
>>  > 
>>  > Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid package 
> there:
>>  > 
>>  > https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended
>>  > 
>>  > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended
>>  > 
>>  > .hc
>>  > 
>>  > On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>  > 
>>  >>  Hey Hans...
>>  >> 
>>  >>  I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later 
> Ubuntu 
>>  > versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so I 
> compiled the 
>>  > source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in 
> linux_make/, 
>>  > then I tried "sudo make install" from packages directory.
>>  >> 
>>  >>  install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \
>>  >> 
>>  > 
> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp
>>  >>  test -z "" || (\
>>  >>  install -p -m 644  
>>  > 
> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp
>  
> 
>>  > && \
>>  >>  )
>>  >>  /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected
>>  >>  make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2
>>  >> 
>>  >>  ?
>>  >>  Ed
>>  >>   
>>  >> 
>>  >>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with 
> dynamics!
>>  >>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>  >> 
>>  >> 
>>  >> 
>>  >>  - Original Message -
>>  >>>  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>  >>>  To: pd-list@iem.at
>>  >>>  Cc: 
>>  >>>  Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22
>>  >>>  Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>>  >>> 
>>  >>> 
>>  >>>  Hey Ed,
>>  >>> 
>>  >>>  I just committed a couple 

Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...

[Ed Kelly]

The first week of October really sucks for anyone working in a UK university 
(it's the first week of the teaching year). Not sure about other European (sic) 
nations...

Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> To: Pd List 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 January 2013, 22:04
> Subject: [PD] the next PdCon in...
> 
> 
> Hey all,
> 
> Its time to start talking about the next PdCon! I was just talking with Golan 
> Levin and Dan Wilcox about the possibility of having the next PdCon at 
> Carnegie 
> Mellon University in Pittsburgh.
> 
> One possibility is having it coincide and partner with a local music and new 
> media festival in the first week of october: 
> http://www.via-pgh.com/festival/2012/
> 
> Is that workable for people?  Any other discussion about other possible 
> locations?
> 
> .hc
> ___
> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Re: [PD] translate the Start Here! page

[Ed Kelly]

> Also notice that neither you nor I are the least bit interested in fixing 
> these

> problems in the FLOSS manual, and we're especially not interested in taking
> it on as a long term project.  Who does that leave?  If it leaves anyone
> wouldn't their time be better spent fixing the doc problems listed on the 
> tracker
> than etching in stone a description of a moving target?


Well, if you have to teach Pd to art students who are used to using Photoshop 
and Final Cut Pro (as I do) the FLOSS manual page is very useful to give them 
some idea of what the objects are. It may not be 100% accurate, but at least it 
is (only) a start. I do hope that the search mechanism replaces static docs 
conceptually, but here is why they should be kept.

Learning Pd from scratch is not easy unless you are already a computer 
scientist. "How do I know what the objects are called" is I agree, the wrong 
question in so many ways. However, 80% of my undergraduate students basically 
give up at that point if they can't find the answer, and probably 60% of my 
masters students, often after saying "I hate Pd". This question usually comes 
up in the first lesson. I could criticise them for this, except that there is 
an impression that Pd is "open" as well as open-source. Is it? Or is it highly 
elitist? I think it can be both, but I don't want to kick away the ladder...

Perhaps the problem lies more with "standards" for documentation across the 
whole community - it's never going to happen (remember Pdpedia?) because the Pd 
community can be somewhat anarchic. Hats off to Hans - making Pd-extended work 
is like nailing jelly to the wall I guess.

There are some small things we could do. For example, a description of what 
lies in each folder of externals and what they are for may well be enough, 
followed by a list of objects. My students are _scared_ of Pd because it is so 
utterly different to anything else they have ever engaged with. A bit of 
documentation that isn't in Pd itself eases the pain somewhat.

A static web page will never be up-to-date since the pd externals folder is 
always a moving target. But it is better than nothing. It was really hard 
persuading students to learn Pd when Flossmanuals didn't exist. It's still 
hard, but it does open some doors to my students.

Ed

> 
> -Jonathan
> 
>> 
>>  .hc
>> 
> 
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Re: [PD] GUI overload

[Ed Kelly]

> While you're at it, it would be great if you could also try pd-l2ork and

> report any gui overload issues. There are debs available on the site
> (http://l2ork.music.vt.edu), although the most up-to-date ones are found in
> the http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/ folder. You can also install from git
> using automated install script.


Is it independent of the normal Pd install? Its just I have some gigs coming 
up, and I don't want to fry the (stable) system I have. Especially with 
teaching starting again next week (less time vs eating)

I have an old Dell laptop I can test on if not, once I get the Broadcom WiFi 
working in Ubuntu.

Ed

> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Ico
> 
>>  -Original Message-
>>  From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of
>>  Ed Kelly
>>  Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:16 PM
>>  To: Hans-Christoph Steiner; pd-list@iem.at
>>  Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>> 
>>  Hey Hans...
>> 
>>  I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu 
> versions to
> run
>>  on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the source code
>>  of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in linux_make/, then
> I
>>  tried "sudo make install" from packages directory.
>> 
>>  install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \
>>  /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-
>>  extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp
>>  test -z "" || (\
>>  install -p -m 644  /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-
>>  extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp && \
>>   )
>>  /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected
>>  make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2
>> 
>>  ?
>>  Ed
>> 
>> 
>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  - Original Message -
>>  > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>  > To: pd-list@iem.at
>>  > Cc:
>>  > Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22
>>  > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Hey Ed,
>>  >
>>  > I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make
>>  > them only send the GUI updates when something actually has changed.
>>  > This can greatly reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI.
>>  >
>>  > Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and
>>  > see if you still get freezes?
>>  > http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/
>>  >
>>  > .hc
>>  >
>>  > On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>  >>  Hi List,
>>  >>
>>  >>  I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" 
> problem as
>>  > it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>>  >>
>>  >>  I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP 
> GUIs, and
>>  >> I
>>  > find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI
>>  > objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering
>>  > if there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I
>>  > think Pd is making some kind of decision that "there's too 
> much of
>>  > this stuff - I'm gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about 
> it"
>>  > and I'd like to know how or if it is possible to control this 
> process
>>  > from within Pd, or by setting flags on the command line.
>>  >>
>>  >>  I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance 
> time,
>>  >> since
>>  > the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will
>>  > not want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to
>>  > give you an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers,
>>  > especially quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches
>>  about as far as I can go now).
>>  >>
>>  >>  System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4,
>>  >> lots of
>>  > externals compiled and loaded.
>>  >>
>>  >>  Warm wishes,
>>  >>  Ed
>>  >>
>>  >>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with 
> dynamics!
>>  >>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>  ___
>>  >>  Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>>  >>  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>  > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>  >>
>>  >
>>  > ___
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>>  > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>  > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>  >
>> 
>>  ___
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>>  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>>  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Re: [PD] GUI overload

[Ed Kelly]

Oooh, aargh, exactly the same!

San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's sys_pollgui() fix is the only 
one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why it works, but it works 
for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to update when the 
pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely convinced that is the 
whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI updates) worked fine 
it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try to counteract 
this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still had the 
problem.

Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and extended - is there any 
test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be?

Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> To: Ed Kelly 
> Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" 
> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08
> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
> 
> 
> Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid package there:
> 
> https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended
> 
> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote:
> 
>>  Hey Hans...
>> 
>>  I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu 
> versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the 
> source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in 
> linux_make/, 
> then I tried "sudo make install" from packages directory.
>> 
>>  install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \
>> 
> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp
>>  test -z "" || (\
>>  install -p -m 644  
> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp
>  
> && \
>>  )
>>  /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected
>>  make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2
>> 
>>  ?
>>  Ed
>>   
>> 
>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  - Original Message -
>>>  From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>>>  To: pd-list@iem.at
>>>  Cc: 
>>>  Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22
>>>  Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Hey Ed,
>>> 
>>>  I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make 
> them only
>>>  send the GUI updates when something actually has changed.  This can 
> greatly
>>>  reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI.
>>> 
>>>  Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and see 
> if you
>>>  still get freezes?
>>>  http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/
>>> 
>>>  .hc
>>> 
>>>  On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>>>  Hi List,
>>>> 
>>>>  I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" 
> problem as 
>>>  it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>>>> 
>>>>  I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP 
> GUIs, and I 
>>>  find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI 
> objects 
>>>  stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there 
> is a 
>>>  specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is 
> making some 
>>>  kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - 
> I'm gonna 
>>>  prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to 
> know how 
>>>  or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by 
> setting flags 
>>>  on the command line.
>>>> 
>>>>  I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance 
> time, since 
>>>  the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will 
> not want to 
>>>  program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an 
> idea. The 
>>>  really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker 
> (which I 
>>>  think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now).
>>>> 
>>>>  System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, 
> lots of 
>>>  externals compiled and loaded.
>>>> 
>>>>  Warm wishes,
>>>>  Ed
>>>> 
>>>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  ___
>>>>  Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>>>>  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>>  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>  ___
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>>>  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
>>>  http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>> 
> 

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Re: [PD] GUI overload

[Ed Kelly]

Hey Hans...

I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu versions to run 
on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the source code of 
Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in linux_make/, then I tried 
"sudo make install" from packages directory.

install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \
/home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp
test -z "" || (\
install -p -m 644  
/home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp
 && \
 )
/bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected
make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2

?
Ed
 

Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
> To: pd-list@iem.at
> Cc: 
> Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22
> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload
> 
> 
> Hey Ed,
> 
> I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make them only
> send the GUI updates when something actually has changed.  This can greatly
> reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI.
> 
> Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and see if you
> still get freezes?
> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/
> 
> .hc
> 
> On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>  Hi List,
>> 
>>  I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as 
> it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>> 
>>  I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I 
> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects 
> stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a 
> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making 
> some 
> kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna 
> prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how 
> or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting 
> flags 
> on the command line.
>> 
>>  I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since 
> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not want 
> to 
> program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea. The 
> really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker (which 
> I 
> think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now).
>> 
>>  System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of 
> externals compiled and loaded.
>> 
>>  Warm wishes,
>>  Ed
>> 
>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  ___
>>  Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>>  UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> 
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>> 
> 
> ___
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Re: [PD] the next PdCon in...

[Ed Kelly]

Pittsburgh sounds good to me.

>
>Now that I live in London, I'd like to consider organising a Con here with our 
>other Pd folks, but for the next year I'm a bit stuck with work at Uni.
>So Pittsburgh could be great!


Yeah, the London Con is still a mythical creature. Ryan and I tried last time 
to find funding and drew a blank!
Best,
Ed

>
>best,
>M
>
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 02, 2013 at 05:04:55PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Its time to start talking about the next PdCon! I was just talking with 
>>> Golan Levin and Dan Wilcox about the possibility of having the next PdCon 
>>> at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh.
>>>
>>> One possibility is having it coincide and partner with a local music and 
>>> new media festival in the first week of october: 
>>> http://www.via-pgh.com/festival/2012/
>>>
>>> Is that workable for people?  Any other discussion about other possible 
>>> locations?
>>>
>>> .hc
>>
>
>
>
>--
>Marco Donnarumma
>New Media + Sonic Arts Practitioner, Performer, Teacher, Director.
>Embodied Audio-Visual Interaction Research Team.
>Department of Computing, Goldsmiths University of London
>~
>Portfolio: http://marcodonnarumma.com
>Research: http://res.marcodonnarumma.com
>Director: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net
>
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>
>
>   

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Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd

[Ed Kelly]

Hey Mark,

RIAA - the original RIAA curve is the one, forget the variants, especially the 
IEC variety. 
It's a high-frequency pre-emphasis filter that overcomes the inherent surface 
noise of vinyl by boosting the HF, and reducing the. bass so that the needle 
doesn't jump out of the groove. 
Also, the curve you most commonly see is the reproduction (de-emphasis) curve 
(the one which slopes downwards) - this is irrelevant, since anything you play 
the vinyl back on will have this frequency response built-in. The recording 
curve is the one which matters -  I think it should not be too hard to 
implement the original equation in C, or even using exp~ or fexp~ - just to 
send it to the lathe.

The problem is that the mechanical nature of vinyl means that, a standard 
6dB/octave single-pole highpass filter won't work, because the amplification 
needed to restore the bass would be too great. It's a sort of "kinked" highpass 
filter. See this 
article: http://www.stereophile.com/features/cut_and_thrust_riaa_lp_equalization

Also, the mix must be mono compatible. This mostly means keeping bass 
frequencies in-phase and trying to make everything below about 220Hz mono.

Metastudio 4. I call that a "lost" metastudio, because I variously did and 
didn't distribute (leak) it on a personal basis (I was slack/busy, I had kids, 
you know...)

Metastudio 5 on the other hand, is currently being worked on. New synthesis 
units based on analogue wavefolding techniques, the tracker sequencer with cut 
and paste, and the quadtracker - a monster 4-channel tracker style sequencer. I 
need to write a whole load of help files this time also, and some more 
explicative performance patches...early 2013

Cheers,
Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>____
> From: me.grimm 
>To: Ed Kelly  
>Cc: "pd-list@iem.at"  
>Sent: Friday, 21 December 2012, 14:40
>Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
> 
>
>hey all thanks for the tips!
>
>nicolas: your phasemeter looks great. i will use that.
>
>but what is a riaa filter then? is there an implementation in pd? from eds 
>link it looks like there is two such curves. one original RIAA curve and the 
>other as RIAA/IEC curve.
>
>btw nicolas your website looks super great and slick. im curious on the 
>topography record you made. any for sale? sound samples?
>
>ed: thanks for reminding me of your metastudio project. i just revisited and 
>remembered all the nice stuff you had going on. were not you promoting a 
>version 4 at one point? what happened to that?
>
>hopefully ill get something cutting over break before the next semester starts!
>
>m
>
>
>On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 6:57 AM, Ed Kelly  wrote:
>
>These are some abstractions I have made that do some of what you are 
>asking...the compressor~ is vanilla.
>>Mastering is primarily about developing "golden ears" but you also need to 
>>take into account the RIAA curve: http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/riaa.htm
>>
>>Remember it's mechanical - I understand that once the RIAA is taken into 
>>account, the most pressing issue is bass - extreme bass and the needle jumps, 
>>too much and the track is too wide so you get less time. If it's set up wrong 
>>then tracks will overlap (but there could be some interesting "jumping 
>>record" experiments in there. 
>>
>>Best,
>>Ed
>> 
>>Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>- Original Message -
>>> From: Lorenzo Sutton 
>>> To: pd-list@iem.at
>>> Cc:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012, 21:23
>>> Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19/12/12 03:10, me.grimm wrote:
>>>>  does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.
>>>>
>>>>  anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of
>>>>  doing something like this:
>>>>
>>>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDnpXVUKXM0
>>>
>>> Very interesting--- thanks for sharing, I couldn't resist noting (and
>>> continuously concentrating) on the ground loop (maybe empathised by the
>>> woofer..) I'm not totally sure that was intended though ..
>>>>
>>>>  which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was
>>>>  thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best
>>>>  sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering"
>>> patch. has
>>>>  anyon

Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd

[Ed Kelly]

These are some abstractions I have made that do some of what you are 
asking...the compressor~ is vanilla.
Mastering is primarily about developing "golden ears" but you also need to take 
into account the RIAA curve: http://www.tanker.se/lidstrom/riaa.htm

Remember it's mechanical - I understand that once the RIAA is taken into 
account, the most pressing issue is bass - extreme bass and the needle jumps, 
too much and the track is too wide so you get less time. If it's set up wrong 
then tracks will overlap (but there could be some interesting "jumping record" 
experiments in there. 

Best,
Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



- Original Message -
> From: Lorenzo Sutton 
> To: pd-list@iem.at
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, 19 December 2012, 21:23
> Subject: Re: [PD] mastering to vinyl live w/ pd
> 
> 
> 
> On 19/12/12 03:10, me.grimm wrote:
>>  does anyone know much about mastering? i dont.
>> 
>>  anyway i have this record recorder/cutter/lathe and was thinking of
>>  doing something like this:
>> 
>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDnpXVUKXM0
> 
> Very interesting--- thanks for sharing, I couldn't resist noting (and 
> continuously concentrating) on the ground loop (maybe empathised by the 
> woofer..) I'm not totally sure that was intended though ..
>> 
>>  which is funny because i have a similar recorder. although i was
>>  thinking just cutting in real-time straight from PD. but to get the best
>>  sound maybe i could run it through some kind of "mastering" 
> patch. has
>>  anyone made such a thing or know best to do in terms of getting decent
>>  masters right from PD? I would think something like:
> 
> Emulating it as well? I know you lose all the materic thing, but it 
> could be fun.
> 
> The voice as heard in the video has something fascinating, it would be 
> interesting to find out what modern digital audio compressions (data 
> such as mp3, ogg etc. can create similar suggetions...)
> 
> Lorenzo.
>> 
>>  [equilizer~] - but what one? [adaptive/nlms3~]? adaptive_equilization
>>  example which im not sure i would know how to use for this
>>  |
>>  [unauthorized/compressor~] - although there is prob a good vanilla one no?
>>  |
>>  [expander~] ???
>>  |
>>  [exciter~]
>>  |
>>  [zexy/limiter~]
>>  |
>>  [hip~ 40]
>>  |
>>  [lop~ 16000]
>>  |
>>  [dac~]
>> 
>> 
>>  but i might just make a mess with this
>> 
>>  m
>> 
>> 
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> #N canvas 0 0 561 431 10;
#X obj 143 40 env~;
#X obj 178 160 swap 100;
#X obj 178 183 -;
#X obj 178 216 dbtorms;
#X obj 143 273 line~;
#X obj 107 141 moses 0;
#X msg 102 160 100;
#X obj 107 198 dbtorms;
#X obj 124 292 *~;
#X obj 220 289 dbtorms;
#X msg 135 160 set 0;
#X obj 107 179 change;
#X obj 124 347 clip~ -0.9 0.9;
#X obj 39 79 swap 100;
#X obj 39 103 -;
#X obj 107 217 pack f 52;
#X obj 39 125 * 0.9;
#X obj 220 269 + 100;
#X obj 124 315 *~ 2.29087;
#X obj 124 13 inlet~;
#X obj 255 18 inlet;
#X obj 124 380 outlet~;
#X obj 254 40 route threshm thresh attack decay makeup;
#X obj 143 252 pack f 1;
#X obj 143 81 - 90;
#X text 205 103 The problem with the line~ here is that attacks generate
breakpoints \, and hence clicks. Perhaps it needs to be smoothed?;
#X connect 0 0 24 0;
#X connect 1 0 2 0;
#X connect 1 1 2 1;
#X connect 2 0 3 0;
#X connect 3 0 23 0;
#X connect 4 0 8 1;
#X connect 5 0 6 0;
#X connect 5 1 1 0;
#X connect 5 1 10 0;
#X connect 6 0 11 0;
#X connect 7 0 15 0;
#X connect 8 0 18 0;
#X connect 9 0 18 1;
#X connect 10 0 11 0;
#X connect 11 0 7 0;
#X connect 12 0 21 0;
#X connect 13 0 14 0;
#X connect 13 1 14 1;
#X connect 14 0 16 0;
#X connect 15 0 4 0;
#X connect 16 0 17 0;
#X connect 17 0 9 0;
#X connect 18 0 12 0;
#X connect 19 0 0 0;
#X connect 19 0 8 0;
#X connect 20 0 22 0;
#X connect 22 0 13 0;
#X connect 22 0 24 1;
#X connect 22 1 24 1;
#X connect 22 2 23 1;
#X connect 22 3 15 1;
#X connect 22 4 17 0;
#X connect 23 0 4 0;
#X connect 24 0 5 0;
#N canvas 9 100 1108 575 10;
#N canvas 3 50 450 300 route 0;
#X obj 110 56 inlet~;
#X obj 109 191 outlet~;
#X obj 207 192 outlet~;
#X obj 228 47 inlet;
#X obj 109 124 *~ 1;
#X obj 207 124 *~ 0;
#X obj 133 100 == 0;
#X connect 0 0 4 0;
#X connect 0 0 5 0;
#X connect 3 0 6 0;
#X connect 3 0 5 1;
#X connect 4 0 1 0;
#X connect 5 0 2 0;
#X connect 6 0 4 1;
#X restore 59 130 pd route;
#N canvas 3 50 450 300 para_eq~ 0;
#X obj 116 171 para_bp2~ 1800 1.6 0 200;
#X obj 310 117 switch~;
#X obj 318 63 inlet;
#X obj 144 90 inlet;
#X obj 183 90 inlet;
#X obj 222 90 inlet;
#X obj 115 50 inlet~;
#X obj 111 221 outlet~;
#X connect 0 0 7 0;
#X connect 2 0 1 0;
#X connect 3 0 0 1;
#X connect 4 0 0 2;
#X connec

Re: [PD] GUI overload

[Ed Kelly]

OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the other GUI 
objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this is running on 
GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change them with the mouse, 
but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the pattern-number in one of 
my sequencers).

Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually dealing 
with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another concerning the 
rest of the GUI.

Ed
> 

> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that Porres 
> reported.  I think its a totally different problem related to Pd-0.43's new 
> portaudio implementation.  It does not affect GNU/Linux, which doesn't use 
> protaudio.  I haven't tested it on Windows.
> 
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
> 
> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're running 
> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
> 
> .hc
> 
> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> 
>>  OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
>>  don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s 
> on every
>>  tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
>>  to Pd.
>> 
>>  Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying 
> problem, it
>>  will just make it harder to recreate it :)
>> 
>>  M
>> 
>>  On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> 
>>>  I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres 
> submitted.  It
>>>  looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates 
> being
>>>  sent, a lot of them get dropped.  Its pretty easy to get 250k per 
> second of
>>>  Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl 
> parser and
>>>  compiler.  The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets 
> sent and
>>>  also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
>>>  advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
>>> 
>>>  .hc
>>> 
>>>  On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>>>  This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
>>>> 
>>>>  int sys_pollgui(void)
>>>>  {
>>>>     return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
>>>>  }
>>>> 
>>>>  with:
>>>> 
>>>>  int sys_pollgui(void)
>>>>  {
>>>>     return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
>>>>  }
>>>> 
>>>>  It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input 
> from GUI and
>>>>  other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so 
> that sys_poll_togui() never
>>>>  gets called.
>>>> 
>>>>  I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than 
> bewail the fact 
>>>>  that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished 
> that the 
>>>>  sound was still working :)
>>>> 
>>>>  Miller
>>>> 
>>>>  On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>>>>  Hi List,
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I'm not going to say whether this is a 
> "recurrent" problem as it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the 
> GUI has affected it...
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP 
> GUIs, and I find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the 
> GUI 
> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if 
> there 
> is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is 
> making 
> some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm 
> gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know 
> how or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by 
> setting 
> flags on the command line.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance 
> time, since the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I 
> will 
> not want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you 
> an 
> idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially 
> quadtracker 
> (which I think has

Re: [PD] GUI overload

[Ed Kelly]

>This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:

> 
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
>     return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> }
> 
> with:
> 
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
>     return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> }


That's great! The hack seems to work really well.

> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the 

> fact 
> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that the 
> sound was still working :)


...that's the best way a glitch could happen I suppose, but anything to reduce 
"PANIC!" moments while performing will improve my life a lot <:->

Ed

> 
> Miller
> 
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>>  Hi List,
>> 
>>  I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as 
> it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>> 
>>  I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I 
> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects 
> stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a 
> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making 
> some 
> kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna 
> prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how 
> or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting 
> flags 
> on the command line.
>> 
>>  I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since 
> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not want 
> to 
> program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea. The 
> really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker (which 
> I 
> think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now).
>> 
>>  System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of 
> externals compiled and loaded.
>> 
>>  Warm wishes,
>>  Ed
>> 
>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] Licensing issues (was rjdj is gone, robotcowboy is coming ...)

[Ed Kelly]

Oooh, I didn't know that!
I played it safe I thought.
 
> On 2012-11-04 14:40, Ed Kelly wrote:

>>  My 2pence worth: Miller's original Pd was licensed to MAX and
>>  became MSP (oh, the irony) and this could only happen because Pd is
>>  BSD (not GPL) licensed distribution.
> 
> where is the irony?
> cycling74 did *not* steal any code.
> 
Perhaps...that it is ironic that after not being able to use the Max code, the 
thing he develops becomes part of Max. Perhaps ironic is the wrong word!

>>  1) re-license my own library of externals ekext to BSD license. 2)

>>  code new externals [...]. This code was released BSD.
> 
> btw, you don't need to do this, in order to be able to circumvent the
> GPL-clauses of iOS.
> if you are the copyright holder of the code, you can simply release
> your code under a dual license, e.g. under GPL and under some
> proprietary "all rights reserved" EULA thing.
> iOS would only ever see the "all rights reserved" part.
> 
> this will only work if you are the only copyright holder of the code
> or have the agreement of all other copyright holders  to change the
> license.
> the same however is true, if you change the license from GPL to BSD3.
> i'm sure you did check with all those people that contributed to ekext
> in the past
> 
> the drawback here is that *other* people cannot use your code for
> building their own iOS applications. you could however re-license the
> code to those people explicitely (so the awareness on apple's license
> politics raises)
> 
> the pro of dual-licensing is, that the code will still be available
> under GPL and enforce GPL in the majority of cases (that is: non-iOS)
> 
Thank you for your enlightenment on this.


> cmadr
> iOhannes
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAlCXdSYACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvR2ZACbBUod2mttUIyGTLGzE7wHOjdP
> DtoAnA8B+LpJi9l8cvysfh5JX9q5IKbu
> =8EkH
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
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Re: [PD] Licensing issues (was rjdj is gone, robotcowboy is coming ...)

[Ed Kelly]

My 2pence worth:

Working with libpd for an iOS application, to be distributed through the app 
store:
I found it necessary to 
1) re-license my own library of externals ekext to BSD license. I know Apple 
has a problem with GPL - or more specifically, GPL has a problem with 
closed-source code. Miller's original Pd was licensed to MAX and became MSP 
(oh, the irony) and this could only happen because Pd is BSD (not GPL) licensed 
distribution.
2) code new externals when I wanted some special functionality, such as a 
resonant filter (mvcf~ in the ekext subversion repository). This code was 
released BSD.

There is so much in the rjdj library that can help, but a lot of lateral 
thinking is needed if you're used to Pd-extended objects. For example, I use 
[goto $1, this( a lot with [msgfile] to organize lists of data, sequences etc. 
You can't do that with [textfile] so you have to:

[f]
|
[t b b f b]
|  |   |   \
|  \   |    \
|   \__|_\___
|      |      \  \
|    [until]  |   \
\___   |      \    \
    \  |       \    \
    [textfile] |    |
      \       [0 ( [1 (
       \      //
       [spigot]

...perhaps there is another way?

3) If you organize tables with a hierarchical naming system then you can avoid 
most of the woes of using arbitrary symbols (unless you are using readsf~ for 
example, where file names have to be stored). For example:

[t f b]
 |   \__
 |                  \
[f]                 [f]
 |                   |
 |                  [makefilename wav-%s-%%s]
 |                   /
 |                  [set $1(
 | __/
 |/
[makefilename not-set-yet]
 |
[set $1(
 |
[tabread4~]

In the [makefilename] object, %%s becomes %s when it's output. s becomes 
%%s, so you can have more levels of hierarchy for naming conventions.

4) If you ever need song position pointers per bar or something, the
[sieve] external from ekext is invaluable. For each bar number you can store 
another number containing a parameter (such as a table name etc). It's BSD 
licensed and ready to go.

Apologies but I can't post the source code for the app I made for legal reasons 
(! - that's the rub) but these are some tips.

While I believe in GPL and have benefited a great deal from it's existence 
(Linux anyone?) I think it would be a good time to start getting an "libpd 
add-ons" library of externals together, that developers didn't mind being used 
for commercial projects.

Ed

Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: Frank Barknecht 
>To: pd-list@iem.at 
>Sent: Sunday, 4 November 2012, 10:52
>Subject: Re: [PD] Licensing issues (was rjdj is gone, robotcowboy is coming 
>...)
> 
>Hi,
>
>On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 07:48:45PM -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
>> That's a bit like having an abstraction to make an array of Pet Rocks.
>> What do you use it for?
>
>Everywhere you need to translate an index number into an arbitrary symbol. For
>example to translate midi note numbers to table-names in a generic sample
>player. 
>
>Ciao
>-- 
>Frank Barknecht                                     _ __footils.org__
>
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[PD] Pd on Lion - Chinese

[Ed Kelly]

Hi,

I have a student from China, and every version of Pd I've tried on her machine 
either crashes or (with Pd-extended 0.42-5) hangs on load.
locahost is there as far as I can tell from ifconfig
The Activity Monitor application shows a red Pd-extended process, but since her 
computer was entirely in Chinese and I didn't have much time to resolve it, I 
don't know what it meant!
Pd 0.43 amd Pd-extended 0.43 both started and quit.
Any ideas? Has anyone experienced this and solved it?
It's OS X, 10.7 Lion
x
Ed
 
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http://sharktracks.co.uk/
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Re: [PD] windowing extended objetcs, mistakes on help files and how to make them into vanilla patches

[Ed Kelly]

I seem to remember sitting in Hans' apartment making the help files for the 
windowing library. There were none, and I found the objects useful as drop-in 
FFT windows (which of course is the point) and for other PSOLA stuff...
I had flu in New York. Perhaps that made me wikipedia-lazy!
I suggest that the bugs are in the descriptions rather than the objects, or 
alternatively the formulae have been modified to make them more "pd standard" 
in the objects.
I'm sure nobody will mind if someone makes this obscure but useful library more 
mathematically correct.
Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner 
>To: pd-list@iem.at 
>Sent: Wednesday, 24 October 2012, 2:48
>Subject: Re: [PD] windowing extended objetcs, mistakes on help files and how 
>to make them into vanilla patches
> 
>
>I don't quite follow, but if you think there are bugs in the windowing
>objects, you should file a bug report.
>
>.hc
>
>On 10/16/2012 05:03 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>> seem to have nailed the gaussian window, but with different width values
>> than the object.
>> 
>> 2012/10/16 Alexandre Torres Porres 
>> 
>>> Hi there, I was studying the window functions for FFT, so I was trying to
>>> build into vanilla pacthes the window functions that come on Pd-Extended
>>> [windowing] package. I got to do them all, but kaiser~ and gaussian~
>>>
>>> Do any of you feel capable to perform this ver nerdy taks?
>>>
>>> Well, anyway, here are some inconsistencies/mistakes I found ont the
>>> description of the formulas that are present in the help of those external
>>> objetcts:
>>>
>>> - blackman~ instead of 0.8 it should be 0.08
>>>
>>> - welch formula: 1-abs(x) - not sure, but doesn't seem to be right or
>>> clear. I used this one: http://paulbourke.net/miscellaneous/windows/
>>>
>>> - barlett~: 1-x^2 doesn't seem to be right or clear either, I used this
>>> one: http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ApodizationFunction.html
>>>
>>> - connes~: cos(pi*x/2) - it's the same as cosine~ so it can't be right, I
>>> used the above link again.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [PD] firewire is dead?

[Ed Kelly]

Jack + fa101?
I have never, ever got this to give me anything other than glitchy, unusable 
audio!

> 
>actually it was still called smartcard..
>either how i use it still with edirol fa101
>never failed me, rocksolid performance with jack
>
>On 10/16/2012 6:11 PM, yvan volochine wrote:
>> On 10/16/2012 02:45 PM, patrick wrote:
>>> good, i was a little bit worried about using a pci-e firewire adapter
>>> for audio in linux / jack.
>>> 
>>> about latency, yesterday i used jdelay to measure the round-trip of my
>>> latency, at 44100 with 128, 3 = 17 ms (jack reports 8 ms). at 96000 i
>>> get 7 ms, BUT my cpu seems to be working hard and i get glitches. so the
>>> question is:
>>> 
>>> with a faster cpu, can i lower the latency?
>> 
>> yes =)
>> 
>> i.e. I have to use huge buffer sizes (so more latency) because of my old 
>> Intel Core Duo 1.6Ghz (great thinkpad x60 with expresscard slot for my FW 
>> card though)...
>> 
>
>
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Re: [PD] Pd fonts

[Ed Kelly]

> On 15/10/12 08:23, Ed Kelly wrote:

>>  I've tried various -font-face arguments:
> 
> $ pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
> 
Zero! Didn't work...perhaps this is a new issue, because I'm using pd-0.43-4 
now.
[ot] I notice that puredata.info still has 0.43-2 as the vanilla download.

Ed

> (note the quotes) works for me (at least it looks different from the default) 
> with
> 
> $ pd -version
> Pd version 0.42-6
> compiled 08:43:13 Mar 19 2012
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> 
> Claude
> -- http://mathr.co.uk
> 
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Re: [PD] Pd fonts

[Ed Kelly]

> Did you try the command line flag?  Might be possible to put that in the 

> ~/.pdsettings
> 


Doh - of course it would be command-line flags.
I assume you mean .pdrc as I cannot find a .pdsettings file anywhere, with 
vanilla Pd + externals.
I've tried various -font-face arguments:
pd -font-face DejaVuSansMono
pd -font-face DejaVu Sans Mono
pd -font-face DejaVuSansMono.ttf
pd -font-face /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-dejavu/DejaVuSansMono
pd -font-face /usr/share/fonts/truetype/ttf-dejavu/DejaVuSansMono.ttf

without success!
Ed


> .hc
> 

> On Oct 14, 2012, at 5:24 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
> 
>>  Hi listers,
>> 
>>  After a kernel upgrade and some really wierd crashing with 0.42-5, I 
> decided to make a custom build of Miller's 0.43 and add the externals 
> myself.
>>  It's all gone smoothly and I'm finally working with the latest Pd. 
> Everything seems to be working OK, and I can see some big improvements to the 
> documentation and compilation scripts etc.
>> 
>>  One question though. The basic Pd font settings are overridden in extended. 
> Is there any way I can make Bitstream Vera the default font in Pd? Or do I 
> have 
> to go with extended for that?
>>  Ed
>>   
>>  Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>>  http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>> 
>> 
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[PD] Pd fonts

[Ed Kelly]

Hi listers,

After a kernel upgrade and some really wierd crashing with 0.42-5, I decided to 
make a custom build of Miller's 0.43 and add the externals myself.
It's all gone smoothly and I'm finally working with the latest Pd. Everything 
seems to be working OK, and I can see some big improvements to the 
documentation and compilation scripts etc.

One question though. The basic Pd font settings are overridden in extended. Is 
there any way I can make Bitstream Vera the default font in Pd? Or do I have to 
go with extended for that?
Ed
 
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http://sharktracks.co.uk/


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Re: [PD] soundhack

[Ed Kelly]

> [declare -path path/to/library]

> this only takes effect when opening the patch. This method has several 
> advantages over the path preference of the application. For instance that you 
> can redistribute a patch with a folder where the abstractions are in and you 
> can 
> declare that relative path in your patch.

Yes, you can do that.

Or alternatively...I am working with a percussionist who has to run his patches 
on a Mac. I have a version of the external I am using for a Mac inside a folder 
ext/ which is inside the directory that contains the patch.

Instead of typing the name of the object into the object box when it is created
[gemnotes_counter]
I type...
[ext/gemnotes_counter]
and the external is always the right version, since I make sure the extern is 
distributed with the patch.
I also have versions for Windows and Linux in the same folder, so in theory I 
could run it on any machine...
But if you see my previous post on "Too many objects" you'll find it doesn't 
work on Windows.
Ah well, it doesn't have to, yet ;-)

Ed


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Re: [PD] Strange bug with cup and moses

[Ed Kelly]

Hi,

If you just put a [change] object before the [moses] object, this won't happen.

Ed




Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: Rick T 
>To: PD List  
>Sent: Monday, 8 October 2012, 21:39
>Subject: [PD] Strange bug with cup and moses
> 
>
>Greetings All
>
>I'm running into a strange bug with cup and moses.  I've tried it with ubuntu 
>12.04 64bit linux  version .43.3 puredata.  And with 10.04 64bit ubuntu linux 
>.42.5
>
>I've posted a youtube video along with the code to see if anybody knows how to 
>fix this or know of a work around.
>
>Link to youtube video that shows the strange behaviour 
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIlxj-MOR0c
>
>Link to code
>http://pastebin.com/pY1Xp0rR
>
>Thanks
> 
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Re: [PD] pd-extended 0.43.1 - objects not loaded

[Ed Kelly]

Hi Athos,


> hi, I installed pd-extended 0.43.1 on my ubuntu 12.04 machine. I'm 
> experiencing
> a strange behaviour: at some point it started failing at loading some 
> pd-extended objects like mux~ or ezdac~. In the log I see  that all libraries 
> are loaded correctly. I tried to purge the package installed with dpkg and 
> install the one from the ubuntu repository indicated on puredata.info, with 
> same result.


The download page has an older version. There have been a few glitches in the 
normal pd-extended generation process in this (0.43) version, and it's a major 
rewrite, so it's taking longer than usual.
However, there is a newer version of the package available at 
http://blinky.at.or.at:/auto-build/2012-10-07/
I suggest you try this - it may fix things.
Ed

>
>I thought to try with 0.42 but as far I understood there's no "easy" way to 
>install it on ubuntu precise. Did anyone experience the same behaviour? Maybe 
>purging pd-extended using apt-get doesn't remove everything and there's still 
>some thing left that won't let the issue be solved reinstalling it? 
>
>thanks,
>athos                                                   
>
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Re: [PD] opinions on the issue of concurrent implementations (was: getting sample rate of file loaded into an array)

[Ed Kelly]

>>  We should use C language only when we need it, in the example of [waveinfo] 
>>vs [soundfile_info], both aren't the good way for me,
>> we just need the [binfile] external for reading the header, and all the 
>> other stuff can be done into a pd patch.
>> 
>
>we don't need [binfile]!
>
>Pd is proven to be turing complete, so it should be easy enough to write
>an operating system entirely in Pd (that is: a patch) that will allow
>you to read/write soundfiles in any desired format.
>
>mgdasr
>IOhannes

True, but looking outside of the scope of audio for a second...
A student of mine did a project based on microwave background radiation 
measurements taken from radio telescopes, in order to deal with data that was 
truly random in some way (I'm skipping a debate about the randomness or 
otherwise in cosmological terms, the big bang etc.)
He accessed binary files to generate points. Admittedly this was in Processing, 
but the ability to deal with any binary data and decode it on an ad-hoc basis 
was essential for this project to work.

The point I am trying to make is that Pd should be able to read and write any 
file, with interpretation of the data implemented on an ad-hoc basis. In this 
way, mrpeach/binfile is incredibly useful. Obviously non-audio files will 
mostly generate noise if played back as audio, but Pd provides so many other 
ways in which data can be sonified, visualized etc...

Ed 


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Re: [PD] [text3d] & video subtitling in Pd

[Ed Kelly]

I use [text3d] a lot for my Gemnotes notation project.
Since it uses TTF fonts, I use fontforge to organise and re-organise my symbols 
so that they are all accessible from within Pd's allowed messages.
With subtitles, it's fairly certain you're dealing with language and so you're 
not going to need symbols like [,~,^ etc, so copying the glyphs for comma, and 
your Spanish letters to these symbols and substitute for them in the text input.
The input would look messy, but the output is what matters...
Ed

Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



>
> From: J Oliver 
>To: PD list  
>Sent: Saturday, 6 October 2012, 0:54
>Subject: [PD] [text3d] & video subtitling in Pd
> 
>
>Dear all, 
>
>
>I was working on a subtitling patch for videos, however, I encountered two 
>problems to which I hope there is a solution, as solving them would make it 
>work.
>
>
>Hard to say if this is a Pd problem or text3d problem or both. 
>
>
>PROBLEM 1: commas cannot be written in [text3d]
>Since [text3d] is fed messages, if I write a message like:
>"yes I am sure, however"
>The message will be come two messages and the comma of course won't be 
>displayed.
>
>
>PROBLEM 2: spanish accents like á é í ó ú have some troubles in [text3d].
>If I write "avión", the accent will be there without a problem and it will 
>display: "avión".
>But if I write "avió", the "ó" will not be there entirely and it will only 
>display: "avi".
>So what seems to be happening is that the accented vowel needs to be inside a 
>word, but if it is by itself or at the end of a word it will not be displayed 
>at all.
>
>
>anyone has any idea of some workarounds? (or if i'm missing something evident?)
>
>
>best,
>
>
>J
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] Can't create Gem window

[Ed Kelly]

> do glxgears work?



yes.

> 
> if so, what is your pixel-depth?
> Gem wants to create a 24bit buffer, so if you are running your X in
> 8bit/palette mode it will bail out.


xorg.conf says 24, using proprietary ATI driver for the HD7700

DefaultDepth     24

> 

> this is what Gem requests:
> {
> GLX_RED_SIZE>=4,
> GLX_GREEN_SIZE>=4,
> GLX_BLUE_SIZE>=4,
> 
> GLX_DEPTH_SIZE>=16,
> 
> GLX_STENCIL_SIZE>=8,
> 
> GLX_ACCUM_RED_SIZE>=8,
> GLX_ACCUM_GREEN_SIZE>=8,
> GLX_ACCUM_BLUE_SIZE>=8,
> 
> GLX_DOUBLEBUFFER
> }


verbose output of glxinfo indicates 
doubleBuffer =1
rgba are all =8
depth =24
stencil =8
accum are all =16
doubleBuffer =1

system spec:
Intel Core i5
Radeon HD7700 graphics card.
Ubuntu 10.04

I am wondering if the ati proprietary driver might be to blame, but I am not 
sure how to check this...
Ed

looks good:
Visual ID: 6b  depth=0  class=DirectColor

    bufferSize=32 level=0 renderType=rgba doubleBuffer=1 stereo=0
    rgba: redSize=8 greenSize=8 blueSize=8 alphaSize=8
    auxBuffers=0 depthSize=24 stencilSize=8
    accum: redSize=16 greenSize=16 blueSize=16 alphaSize=16
    multiSample=0  multiSampleBuffers=0
    visualCaveat=None
    Opaque.

> 
> check the output of glxinfo, whether your config supports such a setting.
> 
> fgmasdr
> IOhannes
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
> 
> iEYEARECAAYFAlBpZRkACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvR5VgCgng37YHFrRQoZJk+CMDFz1OGZ
> fp4AoNrTWuQGqvAg8OgJ2XimzEa9KamQ
> =gGaA
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
> 
> 
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Re: [PD] nearest neighbour matching?

[Ed Kelly]

> Hi Claude,

> 
> On 5 Oct 2012, at 09:47, Claude Heiland-Allen  wrote:
> 
>>  Hi list,
>> 
>>  I have a -batch patch that randomly samples the parameter space of control 
> signals to (some black box)* and uses [sigmund~] to detect pitched-ness vs 
> unpitchedness, keeping the pitch info and then a notch filter to detect 
> distortion:
>> 
>>  http://mathr.co.uk/softrockiii/2012-10-05_probe-puredata.png
>> 
>>  So I end up with gnuplots that look something like this:
>> 
>>  http://mathr.co.uk/softrockiii/2012-10-05_pitching-distortion.png
>> 
>>  Now I want to find the best match for a given pitch and distortion and get 
> back the corresponding parameters that approximately reconstruct the desired 
> sound.
>> 
>>  What's the best way to go about this?
>> 
>>  I might end up just hand-rolling some Lua for this kind of matching if no 
> one has any better ideas.
> 
> You may be interested in the [knn] external, which implements the k's 
> nearest neighbour algorithm.
> 
> It can be found in svn in postlude/knn.
> 
> The classic paper on its use can be found here: 
> http://www.music.mcgill.ca/~ich/research/icmc00/icmc00.timbre.pdf
> 
> best,
> 
> Jamie
> 
> --
> http://jamiebullock.com
> 


There may be a way to use the simile algorithm (from ekext) that gives the 
matched-ness of two numbers based on an arbitrary window size, but it still 
might involve rolling your own. I have a feeling KNN is very efficient...
Ed


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Re: [PD] array size (was Re: arraysize)

[Ed Kelly]

>> will do exactly that. Having a patch that "works like this but I don't
>> know why" is a bad thing. I'd be sure to find the tiny DC component a 
>> nuisance at some point.
>
>Did you?


Well...thanks for asking.
I feel mildly stupid for suggesting that, but this has caused me to test my 
hypothesis and the result is enclosed.
When Miller says tiny, I'm sure he means very tiny indeed.
I've made a test patch to demonstrate - highpass filtering on a modulation 
signal to an [osc~] object. If there was a significant DC offset then the 
carrier frequency of the [osc~] would be offset slightly as the modulation 
index is increased. I can confirm that this is not the case...so I really don't 
think anyone will notice if it is fixed.

It's quite a nice modulation effect actually! I may use it.

Thank you for your time,
Ed

hpmod~.pd
Description: Binary data
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Re: [PD] array size (was Re: arraysize)

[Ed Kelly]

I think you can't fix a bug in a core object and retain complete backwards 
compatibility in terms of the audio result of old patches, unless you implement 
a "pre-0.44 mode" or something. But why would you want to do that? Perhaps a 
method can be used to switch between the two modes in hip~, but that might 
introduce a small overhead.

I think the integrity of the objects in terms of what they should do is more 
important than total backwards compatibilty - old patches will still load, but 
they may not sound _exactly_ the same. Personally I'd like hip~ to do highpass 
filtering properly, and so my expectation when I invoke hip~ is that it will do 
exactly that. Having a patch that "works like this but I don't know why" is a 
bad thing. I'd be sure to find the tiny DC component a nuisance at some point.

Ed 


>For the hip~ problem, I'm fine with just fixing it in 0.44, leaving it
>as hip~, and being done with it.  I agree with Jonathan: the default
>behavior should be the non-buggy behavior.
>
>The issue I am addressing is the -pre-0.44-hip idea and other ideas for
>providing backwards compatibility.  Namespaces provide a nice, clean
>technique for doing this, on top of other advantages.  And if we
>implement them right, people will only need to know about them if then
>need to do advanced things like running a patch in 0.44 while using a
>0.42 compatibility mode.
>
>Most users are just going to see the [import] or [declare] statement in
>a patch.  I think that's proven to be a much more newbie-friendly way to
>load external libraries than command line flags, especially on Mac and
>Windows.
>
>Namespaces are part of general programming, and are essential unless you
>are willing to greatly limit the domain the language is used for.  I
>think we can implement namespaces that are simple and Pdish.  I think
>we're close.  Even C requires the use of a crufty form of namespaces. 
>Try writing a C program without a single #include.
>
>.hc
>
>On 10/02/2012 08:33 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>> Right, the two demands I'm trying to reconcile are keeping the name
>> hip~ (so that old patches remain comprehensible) and yet making hip~
>> work correctly -- it's a bug fix.  Seems to me one ought to be able to fix 
>> bugs without diving into library version confusion.
>>
>> I think namespaces are very useful to expert programmers but are likely to
>> be confusing to many Pd users -- and its not that much of a necessity if
>> indeed c (in which Pd and linux are implemented) didn't need to have
>> them.
>>
>> cheers
>> Miller
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 08:24:19PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>> If you think that's the preferrable approach, then shouldn't it be
>>> [newhip~]?  One thing libc did not do is break backwards compatibility
>>> of functions.  I think the libc example is a better approach than the
>>> -pre-0.44-hip flag or the aliasing to work around the existing versions
>>> of [pow].
>>>
>>> My central point is that Pd should have a fully functioning namespace
>>> like modern languages do (C++, Obj-C, Java, Python, Ruby, Lua, Haskell,
>>> etc. etc.)  That's one lesson that we've learned from C.  Part of that
>>> is having a standard library that can be overridden.  Then if people
>>> want to have old versions of the standard library, they can easily be
>>> accomodated by adding the version number to the name of the library.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On 10/02/2012 07:02 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
 The libc way is just to have one libc and kludge your way through
 compatibility problems.  For instance, seek() had to be replaced with 
 lseek(),
 gets and fgets were left with not-quite-the-same behavior, errno was
 magically adapted to become a macro that grabbed a thread variable when
 threads appeared, etc.  It's not pretty but way preferable to having
 several versions of libc - what a nightmare that would have been.

 cheers
 Miller

 On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 06:48:46PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> Is the static variable you are talking about the "static t_class"
> declaration in the class C files?
>
> What's the libc way?
>
> The -pre-0.44-hip way would be easy to implement, but it has a number of
> problems:
>
> - there will be many flags like this, -pre-0.42-pow, etc. etc.
>
> - there will be no way to specify in the patch that it should use a
> specific version of hip~, pow~, etc.  That adds complexity to the patch
> setups since each patch will need an accompanying script for launching
> Pd properly and means Pd programmers have to learn non-Pd things like
> scripting to do this.
>
> .hc
>
> On 10/02/2012 06:39 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>> Actually I think my previous post was wrong - what I was unable to do was
>> get different sets of static variables for dlopen() - ing the _same file
>> twice_ -- which isn't what we're talking about here.
>>
>> 

Re: [PD] Too many objects (but only in Windows)

[Ed Kelly]

> On 2012-10-03 15:06, Ed Kelly wrote:

>> Hi list,
>> 
>> I know you main devs have bigger fish to fry right now, but an
>> answer to (some of) my wierdness with Gem (in case you're
>> interested) -- the "unable to save file: too many objects" message,
>> and related errors (files no longer loaded within the patch, Pd
>> seems to lose its bearings/path) only seem to occur on Windows.
>> Something gets corrupted in Pd but I don't know what.
>> 
>
> the problem is, that on w32 file-handles can be incompatible between
> different c-runtime versions and each dll uses the c-runtime it has
> been linked too.
> this means that file handles opened by one dll (e.g.: Pd-core) might
> not be closeable by another dll (e.g. Gem).

Thanks IOhannes,
So there is some sloppiness in Windows, which is hardly a surprise since it's 
not created with the integrity of a *nix system.
Fortunately for me, this piece has to work only on Mac OS X for now - on the 
percussionist's MacBook. I can use my old laptop to develop the project for now 
until I fix my new machine's Ubuntu/Pd/Gem issues. It's good to know there is a 
solution on the way though.
Ed


> on the other side, Pd<0.43 would only provide a function to open files
> (using all those search paths), but none to close them.
> this means, that whenever a file is opened via the search-path feature
> (and Gem uses that a lot), it is impossible to close it - effectively
> leading to a file-handle leak.
> 
> now with Pd-0.43 there finally is a sys_close() function that allows
> those file-handles to be closed in the proper context (that is: the pd
> dll).
> unfortunately this does not mean that the problem will magically go
> away by upgrading to Pd-0.43 - the caller (e.g. Gem) has to use the
> new function in order to have an effect.
> starting with Gem-0.94, Gem should be able to handle the problem (and
> even continue to work with older Pd's - at the expense of keeping the
> file-handle leak with Pd<0.43)
> 
> fgamsdr
> IOhannes
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Re: [PD] Can't create Gem window

[Ed Kelly]

After adding
export LIBGL_ALWAYS_INDIRECT=1

to $home/.bashrc
glxgears works fine, but not Gem. Still the same. ?!

glxinfo gives me a lot of output, and the table seems to indicate better-than 
the values you gave below, e.g.

Vis  Vis   Visual Trans  buff lev render DB ste  r   g   b   a  aux dep ste  
accum buffers  MS   MS
 ID Depth   Type  parent size el   type     reo sz  sz  sz  sz  buf th  ncl  r  
 g   b   a  num bufs

0x23  0 TrueColor    0     32  0  rgba   1   0   8   8   8   8   0   24  8  16  
16  16  16   0   0

I can't find GLX_DOUBLEBUFFER
Could it be that I need to add some lines to xorg.conf (wherever it is in Lucid 
Ubuntu)

>On 2012-10-01 11:08, Ed Kelly wrote:


>> ...when I try to create a Gem window. Looking at a previous post in
>> the archive, setting the environment variable GEM_SINGLE_CONTEXT to
>> 1 does not change this. I'm stuck! GL screensavers are working
>> correctly...
>> 

>do glxgears work?


Hmmm...
glxgears gives me this:

Error: couldn't get an RGB, Double-buffered visual


I tried to find a way of adjusting this in the graphics card application, but 
no luck...
e

>>>>>if so, what is your pixel-depth?
Gem wants to create a 24bit buffer, so if you are running your X in
8bit/palette mode it will bail out.

this is what Gem requests:
{
GLX_RED_SIZE>=4,
GLX_GREEN_SIZE>=4,
GLX_BLUE_SIZE>=4,

GLX_DEPTH_SIZE>=16,

GLX_STENCIL_SIZE>=8,

GLX_ACCUM_RED_SIZE>=8,
GLX_ACCUM_GREEN_SIZE>=8,
GLX_ACCUM_BLUE_SIZE>=8,

GLX_DOUBLEBUFFER
}

check the output of glxinfo, whether your config supports such a setting.

fgmasdr
IOhannes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAlBpZRkACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvR5VgCgng37YHFrRQoZJk+CMDFz1OGZ
fp4AoNrTWuQGqvAg8OgJ2XimzEa9KamQ
=gGaA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


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Re: [PD] Can't create Gem window

[Ed Kelly]

>On 2012-10-01 11:08, Ed Kelly wrote:

>> ...when I try to create a Gem window. Looking at a previous post in
>> the archive, setting the environment variable GEM_SINGLE_CONTEXT to
>> 1 does not change this. I'm stuck! GL screensavers are working
>> correctly...
>> 

>do glxgears work?


Hmmm...
glxgears gives me this:

Error: couldn't get an RGB, Double-buffered visual


I tried to find a way of adjusting this in the graphics card application, but 
no luck...
e

>>>>>if so, what is your pixel-depth?
Gem wants to create a 24bit buffer, so if you are running your X in
8bit/palette mode it will bail out.

this is what Gem requests:
{
GLX_RED_SIZE>=4,
GLX_GREEN_SIZE>=4,
GLX_BLUE_SIZE>=4,

GLX_DEPTH_SIZE>=16,

GLX_STENCIL_SIZE>=8,

GLX_ACCUM_RED_SIZE>=8,
GLX_ACCUM_GREEN_SIZE>=8,
GLX_ACCUM_BLUE_SIZE>=8,

GLX_DOUBLEBUFFER
}

check the output of glxinfo, whether your config supports such a setting.

fgmasdr
IOhannes
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iEYEARECAAYFAlBpZRkACgkQkX2Xpv6ydvR5VgCgng37YHFrRQoZJk+CMDFz1OGZ
fp4AoNrTWuQGqvAg8OgJ2XimzEa9KamQ
=gGaA
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[PD] Can't create Gem window

[Ed Kelly]

I had a feeling my problems were Windows-related (see previous post) so I'm 
trying to get this new computer to work with Pd and Ubuntu:

Ubuntu Lucid, ATI Radeon HD7770. The driver is installed, and I just compiled 
Gem from scratch against Pd-extended-0.42.5.

I get:

error: GEM: Unable to create single buffer window
error: GEM: Error creating const context
error: GEM: A serious error occured creating const Context
error: GEM: Continue at your own risk!
error: GEM: Unable to create double buffer window
error: GEM: Unable to create window
error: [gemwin]: no window made
... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu.
error: GEM: Create window first!

...when I try to create a Gem window.
Looking at a previous post in the archive, setting the environment 
variable GEM_SINGLE_CONTEXT to 1 does not change this. I'm stuck! GL 
screensavers are working correctly...

perplexed,
Ed
 
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http://sharktracks.co.uk/
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Re: [PD] Running the phase vocoder example on the Raspberry Pi

[Ed Kelly]

Aha!

OK that's really small. Good work!

Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/




 From: Cyrille Henry 
To: Ed Kelly  
Cc: Miller Puckette ; pd-list ; Antoine Villeret 
 
Sent: Saturday, 15 September 2012, 7:32
Subject: Re: [PD] Running the phase vocoder example on the Raspberry Pi
 
hello Ed,


Le 15/09/2012 00:54, Ed Kelly a écrit :
> Hey Cyrille,
>
> How big is the external USB soundcard?
here is a picture :
http://www.midiwall.com/gear/ua-1a/
but it's very old. i think any usb stereo soundcard (somes are very small) are 
using the same driver, so they sould work the same.

I'm really interested in the Pi as a very small device for running Pd, and my 
USB soundcard is good but really big compared to the form factor of the Pi. I'd 
be interested if anyone has found a soundcard that works well and has the same 
compact style - the cheap ebay dongle-sized ones may not be so good, but they 
are small. Does anyone have a good experience with one of these on a Pi or a 
regular PC machine?
for performances, i'm using soudcard with spdif out (like ua-1X) or maybe this 
behringer (that i did not try) ,(currently, i'm using the spdif out of my asus 
laptop):
http://www.homestudio.fr/behringer-uca202.html
then, i've got a vc8 fostex DA converter that provide a very good sound.

>
> I'd like to build installations with many Pi's emitting sound all at once, 
> and so a small soundcard is a good thing :)
antoine did successfully use something like this :
http://www.turtlebeach.com/products/sound-cards/audio-advantage-micro-ii.aspx

cheers
c

> Ed
> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>
>
 
--
--
--
> *From:* Cyrille Henry 
> *To:* Miller Puckette 
> *Cc:* pd-list 
> *Sent:* Thursday, 13 September 2012, 23:36
> *Subject:* Re: [PD] Running the phase vocoder example on the Raspberry Pi
>
> using 0.44, we manage to have it running with 25ms audio buffer using an 
> external usb soundcard.
> 85% cpu about. no clicks.
>
> cheers
> c
>
>
> Le 11/09/2012 19:42, Miller Puckette a écrit :
>  > One slight tweak: if you type "sudo chmod 4755 /usr/bin/pd" you will
>  > probably be able to use the mouse clicklessly (at some expense to 
>security!)
>  >
>  > This will be unnecessary in release 0.44...
>  >
>  > cheers
>  > Miller
>  > On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 07:32:16PM +0200, Pierre Massat wrote:
>  >> Dear List,
>  >>
>  >> I managed to get the phase vocoder working on my Raspberry Pi, with the
>  >> standard Raspbian wheezy distro.
>  >> It works ok under the following conditions :
>  >> - no GUI activity (even moving the mouse results in awful scratches)
>  >> - the "delay" in Pd is set to at least 50ms
>  >> - 224 Mb of RAM is allocated to the CPU.
>  >>
>  >> All this using the internal audio output.
>  >>
>  >> This is quite encouraging...
>  >>
>  >> Cheers,
>  >>
>  >> Pierre.
>  >
>  >> ___
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[PD] [PD-announce] Ekext and Gemnotes downloads

[Ed Kelly]

Hi List,

The latest versions of ekext and gemnotes are now up-to-date both in the svn 
repository and at http://puredata.info/Members/edkelly

Included in ekext are the latest versions of mvcf~ (a transistor-ladder filter 
emulation), and wavefolder~/wavestretcher~ for morphing synthesis waveforms.

Enjoy!
Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/
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Re: [PD] temporary home for Pd-extended 0.43.1 downloads

[Ed Kelly]

>On Mon, 2012-09-10 at 21:58 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

>> I just retrieved the old pdlab boxes, and put up the main one in a
>> temporary location, in case anyone is looking for Pd-extended 0.43.1
>> builds:
>> 
>> http://blinky.at.or.at:/auto-build/latest/
>> 
>
>Thanks a lot for setting this up. 
>
>I happen to need Pd-extended for Ubuntu Lucid (10.04) and noticed that
>the Lucid package is broken (contains a broken tar archive). When trying
>to unpack I get:
>$ dpkg -x Pd-0.43.1-extended-ubuntu-lucid-i386.deb deleteme
>tar: Unexpexted EOF in archive
>
>Does someone still have working deb for Ubuntu 10.04?
>
>Roman

You could try the package from 2012-8-14:
http://blinky.at.or.at:/auto-build/2012-08-14/

Ed



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Re: [PD] ... and the battle with IT begins

[Ed Kelly]

Same shit here I'm afraid. I have one admin machine that we bought with the 
course budget - when we found out we had one (it had been used to plug funding 
gaps in other courses for years apparently). I don't tell IT about that 
machine, and they do not know!

Luckily I removed it and the MOTU Ultralite audio interface from the college 
over the summer, so when all our equipment was burgled last weekend we held 
onto it. South London - dodgy place! Security isn't so hot where I work either, 
and nothing, it turns outm was insured!


Best of luck,
Ed


 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/




 From: Lorenzo Sutton 
To: pd-list@iem.at 
Sent: Friday, 14 September 2012, 10:09
Subject: Re: [PD] ... and the battle with IT begins
 
On 13/09/12 19:14, m.e.grimm wrote:
> my rant is as follows
>
> when making a request to have pd-extended 0.43.1 installed on the
> teaching station i get:
>
> "Mark:
>
> For obvious reasons, we won't install a beta release of software in a
> production environment.
>
> The current latest production release will be installed."
>
> which im fine with 042.5 but this is just more annoying than anything else.
>
> am I alone or do others on this list in Universities battle with IT on
> a daily basis? i am suspecting im not alone.
>
> is it the word "BETA" that is so bothersome? what is a "production
> environment"? am i not producing something?
>
After quite a while and after gaining a certain amount of trust and 
respect by the IT people (but also with some backing by my boss, and I 
must say they are clever guys, not as stubborn as what you write) I got 
an 'experimental' machine where I'm admin: but that's because my job may 
include installing and testing alpha-alpha software and report back to 
developers...
But I'd assume 'audio' and 'video' machines are always less restricted 
(the people working with MACs have full admin on those as well).

Good luck
Lorenzo.

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Re: [PD] Running the phase vocoder example on the Raspberry Pi

[Ed Kelly]

Hey Cyrille,

How big is the external USB soundcard? I'm really interested in the Pi as a 
very small device for running Pd, and my USB soundcard is good but really big 
compared to the form factor of the Pi. I'd be interested if anyone has found a 
soundcard that works well and has the same compact style - the cheap ebay 
dongle-sized ones may not be so good, but they are small. Does anyone have a 
good experience with one of these on a Pi or a regular PC machine?


I'd like to build installations with many Pi's emitting sound all at once, and 
so a small soundcard is a good thing :)
Ed

 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/




 From: Cyrille Henry 
To: Miller Puckette  
Cc: pd-list  
Sent: Thursday, 13 September 2012, 23:36
Subject: Re: [PD] Running the phase vocoder example on the Raspberry Pi
 
using 0.44, we manage to have it running with 25ms audio buffer using an 
external usb soundcard.
85% cpu about. no clicks.

cheers
c


Le 11/09/2012 19:42, Miller Puckette a écrit :
> One slight tweak: if you type "sudo chmod 4755 /usr/bin/pd" you will
> probably be able to use the mouse clicklessly (at some expense to security!)
>
> This will be unnecessary in release 0.44...
>
> cheers
> Miller
> On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 07:32:16PM +0200, Pierre Massat wrote:
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I managed to get the phase vocoder working on my Raspberry Pi, with the
>> standard Raspbian wheezy distro.
>> It works ok under the following conditions :
>> - no GUI activity (even moving the mouse results in awful scratches)
>> - the "delay" in Pd is set to at least 50ms
>> - 224 Mb of RAM is allocated to the CPU.
>>
>> All this using the internal audio output.
>>
>> This is quite encouraging...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pierre.
>
>> ___
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>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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>
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Re: [PD] Creating a drum machine with "save slots"

[Ed Kelly]

More messy stuff!

The (very fat) objects for sequencing and drum synthesis in my Metastudio 
project may work for you, but although there is documentation on how to use the 
objects, it may not be so clear how they work! The trigseq sequencer has 
various reframe methods and randomized generation of patterns.
Download them at http://sharktracks.co.uk - latest version: 0.4
Check out Analogy_Drums.pd in the /apps/ folder.
Help for trigseq64.pd doesn't exist yet, but you can look at help for trigseq.pd

v0.5 coming soon

Ed

 
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/




 From: Filippo Beck Peccoz 
To: pd-list@iem.at 
Sent: Tuesday, 11 September 2012, 17:41
Subject: [PD] Creating a drum machine with "save slots"
 

Hello list!

I'm working on a drum machine to be used in a mobile game- it's a trading card 
game.
Right now, I have a 64 step grid with 5 instruments ready (although a tad messy 
:D) and I can manually write patterns in by hand using toggle boxes.

In every turn, the game features many different game states, like deck 
building, defense, attack and so on. It would be great to have a drum machine 
that can change beat patterns based on those states, and maybe generate fresh 
patterns in a controlled way. Two different problems, I know, but I was 
wondering first of all how you would solve the saving of patterns inside the 
instrument.

I would basically create arrays with patterns in them, name them appropriately 
and then tell PD when to change to specific patterns via message. Is there a 
better way I'm missing?


The idea is to create a very dynamic drumsound, which is closely related to 
what's happening on screen. We can already change the tempo and mix sounds in 
and out, but the real fun starts when patterns will become more flexible!

Thanks for reading, any advice is greatly appreciated!


Cheers from Munich,

Filippo






Filippo Beck Peccoz
Game Audio

www.fbpsound.com
Twitter: @fbpsound
Skype: fbpsound
Mobile: +49-(0)1520-4004143 

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[PD] undefined symbol: logpost

[Ed Kelly]

Hi list,

Setting up a new machine with Ubuntu 10.04 and Pd.
When I compile externals (e.g. unuathorized) I am getting this message in the 
Pd window quite a lot, e.g.:
/usr/lib/pd/extra/unauthorized/playlist.pd_linux: 
/usr/lib/pd/extra/unauthorized/playlist.pd_linux: undefined symbol: logpost


What is logpost? Is this a new (Pd-0.43) thing - I started with Ubuntu studio 
installs of 0.42
Ed
 
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http://sharktracks.co.uk/
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Gemnotes 0.2

[Ed Kelly]

Whoops!
This is fixed now (twas an underscore, not a hyphen).
There's also a new midifile converter and a polyrhythmic quantize object added 
today.
Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.2.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/




 From: Patrice Colet 
To: pd-list@iem.at 
Cc: Ed Kelly  
Sent: Tuesday, 21 August 2012, 20:41
Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Gemnotes 0.2
 
Hello,

that looks nice, but I'm getting a 404 error when trying to download

Colet Patrice

- Mail original -----
> De: "Ed Kelly" 
> À: pd-annou...@iem.at
> Envoyé: Lundi 20 Août 2012 17:24:59
> Objet: [PD] [PD-announce] Gemnotes 0.2
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Gemnotes 0.2 is released.
> It has dynamics (at last), hairpin crescendos, and very basic
> articulation (just the accented note for now).
> Also, the clocking is done seperately from the GEM framerate (thanks
> IOhannes).
> 
> Enjoy!
> Ed
>  
> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data
> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
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[PD] [PD-announce] Gemnotes 0.2

[Ed Kelly]

Hi all,

Gemnotes 0.2 is released.
It has dynamics (at last), hairpin crescendos, and very basic articulation 
(just the accented note for now).
Also, the clocking is done seperately from the GEM framerate (thanks IOhannes).

Enjoy!
Ed
 
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Re: [PD] Video synthesizer emulation

[Ed Kelly]

Perhaps a good place to start is to work out what the aliased value of 3.2MHz 
is - i.e. when you divide 3.2MHz by the number of lines over which the signal 
is spread (625 for the PAL system).
Patch enclosed,
Ed
 
Gemnotes-0.1alpha: Live music notation for Pure Data
http://sharktracks.co.uk/



 From: Off Screen 
To: pd-list@iem.at 
Sent: Thursday, 12 July 2012, 18:20
Subject: [PD] Video synthesizer emulation
 

Hello everybody,

I'm trying to emulate an analogue video synthesizer using GEM. My starting 
point is the LZX system, an old school analogue video synth which has been 
rebuilt today using modern circuitry components. Obviously that wonderful tool 
is way too expansive for me so I thought I could build something similar using 
Pd.

My first goal is to succesfully emulate the Video Waveform Generator:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbpFgvttBZw

Here is a detailed description:
http://www.lzxindustries.net/modules/video-waveform-generator

I've tried to use [pix_sig2pix~], it works quite nicely and the patterns I get 
are almost identical to the ones in the video (including all the fm and pwm 
stuff). The problems are in the second part of the video, when they use high 
frequencies (~ 3mhz) to generate vertical bands. I'm pretty sure I can't use 
the same approach with Pd.

The other option would be to use GLSL shaders, but it has two major drawbacks: 
first, it won't be using raw signal but control messages (no sound generation); 
second, it won't be patchable, once the parameters are converted into an image 
all the informations about frequencies are lost and I won't be able to use it 
to modulate another shader.

I'd like to know from somebody who has much more experience than me what would 
be the best approach. Are there any limitations or constraints within the 
[pix_sig2pix~] object or Pd itself that I should be aware of? Any advice will 
be extremely appreciated.

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Mhz-Alias.pd
Description: Binary data
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