[PD] GUI Overload - Update
Hi list, An update on the sys_pollgui() fix Miller passed me... It did work for abstractions within a single patch, but today I loaded two such GOP GUI intensive patches at once. The GUI seized up like it did before. One of my abstractions changes the color of GUI elements as it's playing, and that showed the new state of the GUI element as the color was changed. That's all I have. Cheers, Ed Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
I just discovered that my apparent GUI stutter came from "tear free" being enabled on in my AMD/fglrx video card control panel (go figure). So, my report may not be complete/accurate. I will reenable the flag and investigate further. As for trying pd-l2ork you can always compile it using the instructions provided online which are fairly simply even for a newcomer. Best wishes, Ico > -Original Message- > From: Ed Kelly [mailto:morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 5:41 PM > To: Ivica Ico Bukvic; 'Jonathan Wilkes'; 'Miller Puckette' > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > OK. Right now the change Miller suggested to the source code is the only > way I can run my patch and have the GUI work at all, so I'm keeping my main > machine equipped with this change to Pd vanilla 0.43 with libs compiled, > rather than Pd-extended 0.43-4. If Miller can work out how this works, why > my GUI doesn't work, and how to get the best of both worlds then great. > > I have another machine with Pd-extended on it, and will test the patch there > as soon as I've made the new (and old) Metastudio abstractions work with > 0.43. > > Note that I'm using a single Pd with no networking. Perhaps the way that the > network objects and the GUI are implemented conflicts in some way, or > creates a bottleneck somewhere, for Pd-l2ork. My Pd patch, with 45 GOP > abstractions in the master patch and 4 quadtracker objects (see enclosed .ps) > runs really smoothly with the patch applied, but the GUI doesn't work at all > without it. > > > Sorry, but I can't test the latest Pd-l2ork because I'm running Ubuntu 10.04. I > won't upgrade now because I have pieces to finish and gigs coming up. > > Cheers, > Ed > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > > >________ > > From: Ivica Ico Bukvic > >To: 'Jonathan Wilkes' ; 'Miller Puckette' > > >Cc: pd-list@iem.at > >Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013, 4:03 > >Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > >> > OK, so I had several L2Ork rehearsals on new machines with this patch > >> > applied and I can confirm that this is actually a regression. GUI in > >heavy > >> > traffic situations gets visibly sluggish and falls behind, so to say. > >This > >> > still leaves the only notable difference between pd-l2ork and pd that > >has so > >> > far proven pd-l2ork resistant to the problems encountered below and > >> those > >> > have to do with the way how pd-l2ork has altered both > >> netsend/netreceive and > >> > also provided its own disis_netsend/receive externals that have been > >> > reported before on this list to have fixed similar gui freeze issues... > >> > >> Why is it disis_netsend/receive and not simply a fixed netsend/receive? > >Did > >> you change the interface in some way? > >> > >> -Jonathan > > > >Those have additional features (e.g. UDP broadcast, obviously operation > >without gui hiccups, as well as enqueing messages and dumping them all at > >once) that I implemented as separate externals before forking pd-l2ork so I > >did it in a way that did not mess with the core pd. Since then, I fixed > >netsend/receive in the core part of Pd as well but kept those for backwards > >compatibility purposes unaltered. > > > > > >___ > >Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > >UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > > > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
> > OK, so I had several L2Ork rehearsals on new machines with this patch > > applied and I can confirm that this is actually a regression. GUI in heavy > > traffic situations gets visibly sluggish and falls behind, so to say. This > > still leaves the only notable difference between pd-l2ork and pd that has so > > far proven pd-l2ork resistant to the problems encountered below and > those > > have to do with the way how pd-l2ork has altered both > netsend/netreceive and > > also provided its own disis_netsend/receive externals that have been > > reported before on this list to have fixed similar gui freeze issues... > > Why is it disis_netsend/receive and not simply a fixed netsend/receive? Did > you change the interface in some way? > > -Jonathan Those have additional features (e.g. UDP broadcast, obviously operation without gui hiccups, as well as enqueing messages and dumping them all at once) that I implemented as separate externals before forking pd-l2ork so I did it in a way that did not mess with the core pd. Since then, I fixed netsend/receive in the core part of Pd as well but kept those for backwards compatibility purposes unaltered. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
It makes things worse in pd-l2ork. Pd-l2ork did not need it (AFAICT) in the first place since I had the netsend/receive fixed but I tried it anyhow just to make sure and my conclusion is it makes things more sluggish gui-wise. > -Original Message- > From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of > Hans-Christoph Steiner > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 10:07 PM > To: pd-list@iem.at > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > I don't quite understand. Are you saying that this || to + change does help > or does not help? > > .hc > > On 02/14/2013 09:27 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > OK, so I had several L2Ork rehearsals on new machines with this patch > > applied and I can confirm that this is actually a regression. GUI in heavy > > traffic situations gets visibly sluggish and falls behind, so to say. This > > still leaves the only notable difference between pd-l2ork and pd that has so > > far proven pd-l2ork resistant to the problems encountered below and > those > > have to do with the way how pd-l2ork has altered both > netsend/netreceive and > > also provided its own disis_netsend/receive externals that have been > > reported before on this list to have fixed similar gui freeze issues... > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: Miller Puckette [mailto:m...@ucsd.edu] > >> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 11:46 PM > >> To: Ivica Bukvic > >> Cc: pd-list@iem.at > >> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > >> > >> My worry is, I'm not sure if there's still a problem out there that the > >> || -. + change fixes. Maybe I should try to cook up a formal definition > >> of what "working correctly" should consist of :) > >> > >> M > >> > >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:30:40PM -0500, Ivica Bukvic wrote: > >>> Miller, > >>> > >>> Pd-l2ork has this fix since your original post on the PD list and I've > > yet > >>> to see any regressions. Many thanks for the suggestion. That said, I've > > yet > >>> to understand the logic behind it ;-). > >>> > >>> P.S. I also discovered quite a while ago that netreceive had a tendency > > to > >>> freeze GUI permanently, likely due to asynchronous message > processing. I > >>> fixed this by enqueuing its messages and syncing them with the main PD > >>> loop. This has been a part of pd-l2ork for over a year without a single > > GUI > >>> freeze. That said, I did encounter situations where high traffic would > >>> freeze GUI temporarily and then resume (albeit running now behind the > >>> actual timeline as the GUI would simply resume as if nothing happened, > >>> rather than processing all calls that have piled up since the temporary > >>> freeze happened and for which time has already passed, e.g. having a > >> timer > >>> in a score that freezes and then resumes from the moment it was stuck > >>> rather than adding seconds lost since such calls should've been > enqueued > >>> while the freeze was in effect). This may have been in part due to atom > >>> cpus being taxed to their very limits. I've yet to see whether your > >>> proposed fix resolves the lingering issue. > >>> > >>> HTH > >>> > >>> Best wishes, > >>> > >>> Ico > >>> On Dec 20, 2012 7:02 PM, "Miller Puckette" wrote: > >>> > >>>> OK... I've pushed a change that seems to have fixed the > >>>> arrays-atop-updating > >>>> problem (at lest in the Brane example). Not sure if I should also > > commit > >>>> the > >>>> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) ---> + change > >>>> as well (somehow I think it should never be necessary to do that but > > I'm > >>>> realizing how little I understand Pd's scheduler.) > >>>> > >>>> cheers > >>>> M > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:17:35PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner > > wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> It seems that there are a number of issues here: > >>>>> > >>>>> * GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed) > >>>>> > >>>>> * arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this > > on > >>>> Windows, and it
Re: [PD] GUI overload
- Original Message - > From: Ivica Ico Bukvic > To: 'Miller Puckette' > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 9:27 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > OK, so I had several L2Ork rehearsals on new machines with this patch > applied and I can confirm that this is actually a regression. GUI in heavy > traffic situations gets visibly sluggish and falls behind, so to say. This > still leaves the only notable difference between pd-l2ork and pd that has so > far proven pd-l2ork resistant to the problems encountered below and those > have to do with the way how pd-l2ork has altered both netsend/netreceive and > also provided its own disis_netsend/receive externals that have been > reported before on this list to have fixed similar gui freeze issues... Why is it disis_netsend/receive and not simply a fixed netsend/receive? Did you change the interface in some way? -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
I don't quite understand. Are you saying that this || to + change does help or does not help? .hc On 02/14/2013 09:27 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > OK, so I had several L2Ork rehearsals on new machines with this patch > applied and I can confirm that this is actually a regression. GUI in heavy > traffic situations gets visibly sluggish and falls behind, so to say. This > still leaves the only notable difference between pd-l2ork and pd that has so > far proven pd-l2ork resistant to the problems encountered below and those > have to do with the way how pd-l2ork has altered both netsend/netreceive and > also provided its own disis_netsend/receive externals that have been > reported before on this list to have fixed similar gui freeze issues... > >> -Original Message- >> From: Miller Puckette [mailto:m...@ucsd.edu] >> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 11:46 PM >> To: Ivica Bukvic >> Cc: pd-list@iem.at >> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> >> My worry is, I'm not sure if there's still a problem out there that the >> || -. + change fixes. Maybe I should try to cook up a formal definition >> of what "working correctly" should consist of :) >> >> M >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:30:40PM -0500, Ivica Bukvic wrote: >>> Miller, >>> >>> Pd-l2ork has this fix since your original post on the PD list and I've > yet >>> to see any regressions. Many thanks for the suggestion. That said, I've > yet >>> to understand the logic behind it ;-). >>> >>> P.S. I also discovered quite a while ago that netreceive had a tendency > to >>> freeze GUI permanently, likely due to asynchronous message processing. I >>> fixed this by enqueuing its messages and syncing them with the main PD >>> loop. This has been a part of pd-l2ork for over a year without a single > GUI >>> freeze. That said, I did encounter situations where high traffic would >>> freeze GUI temporarily and then resume (albeit running now behind the >>> actual timeline as the GUI would simply resume as if nothing happened, >>> rather than processing all calls that have piled up since the temporary >>> freeze happened and for which time has already passed, e.g. having a >> timer >>> in a score that freezes and then resumes from the moment it was stuck >>> rather than adding seconds lost since such calls should've been enqueued >>> while the freeze was in effect). This may have been in part due to atom >>> cpus being taxed to their very limits. I've yet to see whether your >>> proposed fix resolves the lingering issue. >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> >>> Ico >>> On Dec 20, 2012 7:02 PM, "Miller Puckette" wrote: >>> >>>> OK... I've pushed a change that seems to have fixed the >>>> arrays-atop-updating >>>> problem (at lest in the Brane example). Not sure if I should also > commit >>>> the >>>> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) ---> + change >>>> as well (somehow I think it should never be necessary to do that but > I'm >>>> realizing how little I understand Pd's scheduler.) >>>> >>>> cheers >>>> M >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:17:35PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> It seems that there are a number of issues here: >>>>> >>>>> * GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed) >>>>> >>>>> * arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this > on >>>> Windows, and it looks like only Mac OS X is affected >>>>> >>>>> * all GUI activity stopping related to: >>>>> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> * GUI objects sending updates to GUI as fast as they receive them > even >>>> tho the screen will never update faster than every ~10ms. >>>>> >>>>> * some GUI updates send lots of raw Tcl code to be parsed, compiled, >> and >>>> run in realtime >>>>> >>>>> .hc >>>>> >>>>> On Dec 20, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all > the >>>> other GUI objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and > this >> is >>&g
Re: [PD] GUI overload
OK, so I had several L2Ork rehearsals on new machines with this patch applied and I can confirm that this is actually a regression. GUI in heavy traffic situations gets visibly sluggish and falls behind, so to say. This still leaves the only notable difference between pd-l2ork and pd that has so far proven pd-l2ork resistant to the problems encountered below and those have to do with the way how pd-l2ork has altered both netsend/netreceive and also provided its own disis_netsend/receive externals that have been reported before on this list to have fixed similar gui freeze issues... > -Original Message- > From: Miller Puckette [mailto:m...@ucsd.edu] > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 11:46 PM > To: Ivica Bukvic > Cc: pd-list@iem.at > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > My worry is, I'm not sure if there's still a problem out there that the > || -. + change fixes. Maybe I should try to cook up a formal definition > of what "working correctly" should consist of :) > > M > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:30:40PM -0500, Ivica Bukvic wrote: > > Miller, > > > > Pd-l2ork has this fix since your original post on the PD list and I've yet > > to see any regressions. Many thanks for the suggestion. That said, I've yet > > to understand the logic behind it ;-). > > > > P.S. I also discovered quite a while ago that netreceive had a tendency to > > freeze GUI permanently, likely due to asynchronous message processing. I > > fixed this by enqueuing its messages and syncing them with the main PD > > loop. This has been a part of pd-l2ork for over a year without a single GUI > > freeze. That said, I did encounter situations where high traffic would > > freeze GUI temporarily and then resume (albeit running now behind the > > actual timeline as the GUI would simply resume as if nothing happened, > > rather than processing all calls that have piled up since the temporary > > freeze happened and for which time has already passed, e.g. having a > timer > > in a score that freezes and then resumes from the moment it was stuck > > rather than adding seconds lost since such calls should've been enqueued > > while the freeze was in effect). This may have been in part due to atom > > cpus being taxed to their very limits. I've yet to see whether your > > proposed fix resolves the lingering issue. > > > > HTH > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Ico > > On Dec 20, 2012 7:02 PM, "Miller Puckette" wrote: > > > > > OK... I've pushed a change that seems to have fixed the > > > arrays-atop-updating > > > problem (at lest in the Brane example). Not sure if I should also commit > > > the > > > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) ---> + change > > > as well (somehow I think it should never be necessary to do that but I'm > > > realizing how little I understand Pd's scheduler.) > > > > > > cheers > > > M > > > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:17:35PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > > > > > > It seems that there are a number of issues here: > > > > > > > > * GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed) > > > > > > > > * arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this on > > > Windows, and it looks like only Mac OS X is affected > > > > > > > > * all GUI activity stopping related to: > > > > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) > > > > > > > > > > > > * GUI objects sending updates to GUI as fast as they receive them even > > > tho the screen will never update faster than every ~10ms. > > > > > > > > * some GUI updates send lots of raw Tcl code to be parsed, compiled, > and > > > run in realtime > > > > > > > > .hc > > > > > > > > On Dec 20, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > > > > > > > > > OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the > > > other GUI objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this > is > > > running on GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change > them > > > with the mouse, but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the > > > pattern-number in one of my sequencers). > > > > > > > > > > Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually > > > dealing with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another > > > concerni
Re: [PD] GUI overload
> As far as freezes-- with the -rt flag isn't Pd running at a higher > priority than the x server? Oh yes, you're right about that. Consider that irrelevant to the original GUI overload issue. Ed > > > -Jonathan > > > - Original Message - >> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >> To: Ed Kelly >> Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" ; Miller Puckette > >> Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:36 PM >> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> >> >> What would be very useful for me for debugging is if your patch ran on > plain >> Pd-extended, and included every object outside of Pd-extended it needs to > run. >> When I open your Test.perf patch, I get quite a few errors amount missing >> objects. >> >> .hc >> >> On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:05 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: >> >>> One other occasion where I used to have the same thing happen to me > which >> might shed some light on the situation. >>> >>> Remember Brazil? I tried all evening to get my GUI-intensive patches >> working. Fortunately we did, in the end, get some music. It was all down to > that >> pesky firewire interface, using Jack. >>> >>> I had to run Pd in -rt mode, and I have found that running Pd in -rt > often >> causes the GUI to seize up completely in my patches, in exactly the same > way as >> it did for the latest one. I don't use Jack any more, nor do I ever run > Pd >> in -rt mode. Without -rt I find I can do things like create a new [table] > object >> and copy audio data from a recording of the [adc~] into the table, without > any >> audio dropouts. >>> >>> Ed; >>> >>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >>> >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>>> From: Miller Puckette >>>> To: Ed Kelly >>>> Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; >> "pd-list@iem.at" >>>> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 4:18 >>>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >>>> >>>> So now a question for me is - should I change || to + in the 0.44 >>>> release? My first impulse is to hold off since I can't be > sure it >>>> won't affect scheduling in some other unknown way - after al > if it >> makes >>>> one thing happen faster it presumably makes something else happen >>>> slower. >>>> >>>> I'm hoping to make 0.44 official this weekend :) >>>> >>>> M >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:44AM +, Ed Kelly wrote: >>>>> Oooh, aargh, exactly the same! >>>>> >>>>> San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's > sys_pollgui() >> fix is >>>> the only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why > it >> works, but >>>> it works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to > >> update when >>>> the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely > convinced >> that is >>>> the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI > updates) >> worked >>>> fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try > to >> counteract >>>> this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still > had >> the >>>> problem. >>>>> >>>>> Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and > extended - >> is there >>>> any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be? >>>>> >>>>> Ed >>>>> >>>>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with > dynamics! >>>>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Original Message - >>>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >>>>>> To: Ed Kelly >>>>>> Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid > >> package >>>> there: >
Re: [PD] GUI overload
As far as freezes-- with the -rt flag isn't Pd running at a higher priority than the x server? -Jonathan - Original Message - > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > To: Ed Kelly > Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" ; Miller Puckette > Sent: Saturday, January 5, 2013 11:36 PM > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > What would be very useful for me for debugging is if your patch ran on plain > Pd-extended, and included every object outside of Pd-extended it needs to > run. > When I open your Test.perf patch, I get quite a few errors amount missing > objects. > > .hc > > On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:05 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > >> One other occasion where I used to have the same thing happen to me which > might shed some light on the situation. >> >> Remember Brazil? I tried all evening to get my GUI-intensive patches > working. Fortunately we did, in the end, get some music. It was all down to > that > pesky firewire interface, using Jack. >> >> I had to run Pd in -rt mode, and I have found that running Pd in -rt often > causes the GUI to seize up completely in my patches, in exactly the same way > as > it did for the latest one. I don't use Jack any more, nor do I ever run Pd > in -rt mode. Without -rt I find I can do things like create a new [table] > object > and copy audio data from a recording of the [adc~] into the table, without > any > audio dropouts. >> >> Ed; >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message - >>> From: Miller Puckette >>> To: Ed Kelly >>> Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; > "pd-list@iem.at" >>> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 4:18 >>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >>> >>> So now a question for me is - should I change || to + in the 0.44 >>> release? My first impulse is to hold off since I can't be sure it >>> won't affect scheduling in some other unknown way - after al if it > makes >>> one thing happen faster it presumably makes something else happen >>> slower. >>> >>> I'm hoping to make 0.44 official this weekend :) >>> >>> M >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:44AM +, Ed Kelly wrote: >>>> Oooh, aargh, exactly the same! >>>> >>>> San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's sys_pollgui() > fix is >>> the only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why it > works, but >>> it works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to > update when >>> the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely convinced > that is >>> the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI updates) > worked >>> fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try to > counteract >>> this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still had > the >>> problem. >>>> >>>> Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and extended - > is there >>> any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be? >>>> >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >>>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >>>>> To: Ed Kelly >>>>> Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" >>>>> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08 >>>>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid > package >>> there: >>>>> >>>>> https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended >>>>> >>>>> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended >>>>> >>>>> .hc >>>>> >>>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hey Hans... >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get > later >>> Ubuntu >>>>> versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so > I >>> compiled the >>>>> source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was
Re: [PD] GUI overload
What would be very useful for me for debugging is if your patch ran on plain Pd-extended, and included every object outside of Pd-extended it needs to run. When I open your Test.perf patch, I get quite a few errors amount missing objects. .hc On Jan 5, 2013, at 6:05 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > One other occasion where I used to have the same thing happen to me which > might shed some light on the situation. > > Remember Brazil? I tried all evening to get my GUI-intensive patches working. > Fortunately we did, in the end, get some music. It was all down to that pesky > firewire interface, using Jack. > > I had to run Pd in -rt mode, and I have found that running Pd in -rt often > causes the GUI to seize up completely in my patches, in exactly the same way > as it did for the latest one. I don't use Jack any more, nor do I ever run Pd > in -rt mode. Without -rt I find I can do things like create a new [table] > object and copy audio data from a recording of the [adc~] into the table, > without any audio dropouts. > > Ed; > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > > - Original Message - >> From: Miller Puckette >> To: Ed Kelly >> Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; "pd-list@iem.at" >> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 4:18 >> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> >> So now a question for me is - should I change || to + in the 0.44 >> release? My first impulse is to hold off since I can't be sure it >> won't affect scheduling in some other unknown way - after al if it makes >> one thing happen faster it presumably makes something else happen >> slower. >> >> I'm hoping to make 0.44 official this weekend :) >> >> M >> >> On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:44AM +, Ed Kelly wrote: >>> Oooh, aargh, exactly the same! >>> >>> San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's sys_pollgui() fix is >> the only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why it works, but >> it works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to update >> when >> the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely convinced that is >> the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI updates) >> worked >> fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try to >> counteract >> this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still had the >> problem. >>> >>> Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and extended - is there >> any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be? >>> >>> Ed >>> >>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >>> >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >>>> To: Ed Kelly >>>> Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" >>>> Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08 >>>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >>>> >>>> >>>> Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid package >> there: >>>> >>>> https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended >>>> >>>> sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended >>>> >>>> .hc >>>> >>>> On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hey Hans... >>>>> >>>>> I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later >> Ubuntu >>>> versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so I >> compiled the >>>> source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in >> linux_make/, >>>> then I tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. >>>>> >>>>> install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ >>>>> >>>> >> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp >>>>> test -z "" || (\ >>>>> install -p -m 644 >>>> >> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp >> >> >>>> && \ >>>>> ) >>>>> /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected >>>>> make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 >>>>> >>>>> ? >>>>>
Re: [PD] GUI overload
One other occasion where I used to have the same thing happen to me which might shed some light on the situation. Remember Brazil? I tried all evening to get my GUI-intensive patches working. Fortunately we did, in the end, get some music. It was all down to that pesky firewire interface, using Jack. I had to run Pd in -rt mode, and I have found that running Pd in -rt often causes the GUI to seize up completely in my patches, in exactly the same way as it did for the latest one. I don't use Jack any more, nor do I ever run Pd in -rt mode. Without -rt I find I can do things like create a new [table] object and copy audio data from a recording of the [adc~] into the table, without any audio dropouts. Ed; Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ - Original Message - > From: Miller Puckette > To: Ed Kelly > Cc: Hans-Christoph Steiner ; "pd-list@iem.at" > Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 4:18 > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > So now a question for me is - should I change || to + in the 0.44 > release? My first impulse is to hold off since I can't be sure it > won't affect scheduling in some other unknown way - after al if it makes > one thing happen faster it presumably makes something else happen > slower. > > I'm hoping to make 0.44 official this weekend :) > > M > > On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:44AM +, Ed Kelly wrote: >> Oooh, aargh, exactly the same! >> >> San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's sys_pollgui() fix is > the only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why it works, but > it works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to update > when > the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely convinced that is > the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI updates) worked > fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try to > counteract > this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still had the > problem. >> >> Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and extended - is there > any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be? >> >> Ed >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >> > To: Ed Kelly >> > Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" >> > Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08 >> > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> > >> > >> > Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid package > there: >> > >> > https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended >> > >> > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended >> > >> > .hc >> > >> > On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: >> > >> >> Hey Hans... >> >> >> >> I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later > Ubuntu >> > versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so I > compiled the >> > source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in > linux_make/, >> > then I tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. >> >> >> >> install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ >> >> >> > > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp >> >> test -z "" || (\ >> >> install -p -m 644 >> > > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > > >> > && \ >> >> ) >> >> /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected >> >> make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 >> >> >> >> ? >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with > dynamics! >> >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> >>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >> >>> To: pd-list@iem.at >> >>> Cc: >> >>> Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 >> >>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Hey Ed, >> >>> >> >>> I just committed a couple
Re: [PD] GUI overload
So now a question for me is - should I change || to + in the 0.44 release? My first impulse is to hold off since I can't be sure it won't affect scheduling in some other unknown way - after al if it makes one thing happen faster it presumably makes something else happen slower. I'm hoping to make 0.44 official this weekend :) M On Sat, Jan 05, 2013 at 01:07:44AM +, Ed Kelly wrote: > Oooh, aargh, exactly the same! > > San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's sys_pollgui() fix is the > only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why it works, but it > works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to update when > the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely convinced that is > the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI updates) worked > fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try to > counteract this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still > had the problem. > > Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and extended - is there > any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be? > > Ed > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > > To: Ed Kelly > > Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" > > Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08 > > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > > > > Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid package there: > > > > https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended > > > > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended > > > > .hc > > > > On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: > > > >> Hey Hans... > >> > >> I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu > > versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled > > the > > source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in > > linux_make/, > > then I tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. > >> > >> install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ > >> > > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > >> test -z "" || (\ > >> install -p -m 644 > > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > > > > && \ > >> ) > >> /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected > >> make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 > >> > >> ? > >> Ed > >> > >> > >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > >> > >> > >> > >> - Original Message - > >>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > >>> To: pd-list@iem.at > >>> Cc: > >>> Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 > >>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > >>> > >>> > >>> Hey Ed, > >>> > >>> I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make > > them only > >>> send the GUI updates when something actually has changed. This can > > greatly > >>> reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. > >>> > >>> Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and see > > if you > >>> still get freezes? > >>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ > >>> > >>> .hc > >>> > >>> On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > >>>> Hi List, > >>>> > >>>> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" > > problem as > >>> it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... > >>>> > >>>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP > > GUIs, and I > >>> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI > > objects > >>> stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there > > is a > >>> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is > > making some > >>> kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - > > I'm gonna > >>> prioritize the audio and not worry abo
Re: [PD] GUI overload
If you install it using binary tarball (or build it using ./tar_em_up -u), it will install into /usr/local/lib/ folder so it shouldn't mess with the regular pd/pd-extended. The deb OTOH cannot (yet) coexist with pd-extended, mainly due to shared names of some of the binaries (e.g. pd-gui)... HTH > -Original Message- > From: Ed Kelly [mailto:morph_2...@yahoo.co.uk] > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 8:18 PM > To: Ivica Ico Bukvic; 'Hans-Christoph Steiner'; pd-list@iem.at > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > While you're at it, it would be great if you could also try pd-l2ork > > and > > > report any gui overload issues. There are debs available on the site > > (http://l2ork.music.vt.edu), although the most up-to-date ones are > > found in the http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/ folder. You can also > > install from git using automated install script. > > > Is it independent of the normal Pd install? Its just I have some gigs coming > up, and I don't want to fry the (stable) system I have. Especially with teaching > starting again next week (less time vs eating) > > I have an old Dell laptop I can test on if not, once I get the Broadcom WiFi > working in Ubuntu. > > Ed > > > > > Best wishes, > > > > Ico > > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On > >> Behalf Of Ed Kelly > >> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:16 PM > >> To: Hans-Christoph Steiner; pd-list@iem.at > >> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > >> > >> Hey Hans... > >> > >> I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu > > versions to > > run > >> on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the source > >> code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in > >> linux_make/, then > > I > >> tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. > >> > >> install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ > >> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd- > >> extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > >> test -z "" || (\ > >> install -p -m 644 /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd- > >> extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp && \ > >> ) > >> /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected > >> make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 > >> > >> ? > >> Ed > >> > >> > >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > >> > >> > >> > >> - Original Message - > >> > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > To: pd-list@iem.at > >> > Cc: > >> > Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI > >> overload > > > Hey Ed, > > I just committed a couple more fixes > >> for [tgl] and [mknob] that make > them only send the GUI updates > >> when something actually has changed. > >> > This can greatly reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. > >> > > >> > Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended > >> and > see if you still get freezes? > >> > http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ > >> > > >> > .hc > >> > > >> > On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > >> >> Hi List, > >> >> > >> >> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" > > problem as > >> > it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... > >> >> > >> >> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP > > GUIs, and > >> >> I > >> > find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the > >> GUI > objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am > >> wondering > if there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could > >> be changed. I > think Pd is making some kind of decision that > >> "there's too > > much of > >> > this stuff - I'm gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about > > it" > >> > and I'd like to know how or if it is possible to control this > > process > >> > from within Pd, or by setting flags on the command line. > >> >> > >> >> I'm also making less GUI
Re: [PD] GUI overload
> While you're at it, it would be great if you could also try pd-l2ork and > report any gui overload issues. There are debs available on the site > (http://l2ork.music.vt.edu), although the most up-to-date ones are found in > the http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/ folder. You can also install from git > using automated install script. Is it independent of the normal Pd install? Its just I have some gigs coming up, and I don't want to fry the (stable) system I have. Especially with teaching starting again next week (less time vs eating) I have an old Dell laptop I can test on if not, once I get the Broadcom WiFi working in Ubuntu. Ed > > Best wishes, > > Ico > >> -Original Message- >> From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of >> Ed Kelly >> Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:16 PM >> To: Hans-Christoph Steiner; pd-list@iem.at >> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> >> Hey Hans... >> >> I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu > versions to > run >> on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the source code >> of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in linux_make/, then > I >> tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. >> >> install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ >> /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd- >> extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp >> test -z "" || (\ >> install -p -m 644 /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd- >> extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp && \ >> ) >> /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected >> make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 >> >> ? >> Ed >> >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >> > To: pd-list@iem.at >> > Cc: >> > Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 >> > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> > >> > >> > Hey Ed, >> > >> > I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make >> > them only send the GUI updates when something actually has changed. >> > This can greatly reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. >> > >> > Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and >> > see if you still get freezes? >> > http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ >> > >> > .hc >> > >> > On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: >> >> Hi List, >> >> >> >> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" > problem as >> > it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... >> >> >> >> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP > GUIs, and >> >> I >> > find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI >> > objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering >> > if there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I >> > think Pd is making some kind of decision that "there's too > much of >> > this stuff - I'm gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about > it" >> > and I'd like to know how or if it is possible to control this > process >> > from within Pd, or by setting flags on the command line. >> >> >> >> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance > time, >> >> since >> > the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will >> > not want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to >> > give you an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, >> > especially quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches >> about as far as I can go now). >> >> >> >> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, >> >> lots of >> > externals compiled and loaded. >> >> >> >> Warm wishes, >> >> Ed >> >> >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with > dynamics! >> >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >> > >> > ___ >> > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > >> >> ___ >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
Oooh, aargh, exactly the same! San Diego (Houston) we have a problem...Miller's sys_pollgui() fix is the only one I found that works, and perhaps we don't know why it works, but it works for me. Bear in mind I have 32x64+256=2304 GUI objects to update when the pattern changes on my sequencer, but I'm not entirely convinced that is the whole problem. The version I sent you (with all those GUI updates) worked fine it turned out, but the version I made of the sequencer to try to counteract this (with no GUI updates) - the performance patch with that still had the problem. Since I now have both Pd versions - hacked vanilla and extended - is there any test I can carry out to determine what the issue might be? Ed Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ - Original Message - > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > To: Ed Kelly > Cc: "pd-list@iem.at" > Sent: Saturday, 5 January 2013, 0:08 > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid package there: > > https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended > > sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended > > .hc > > On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: > >> Hey Hans... >> >> I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu > versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the > source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in > linux_make/, > then I tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. >> >> install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ >> > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp >> test -z "" || (\ >> install -p -m 644 > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > > && \ >> ) >> /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected >> make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 >> >> ? >> Ed >> >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >>> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >>> To: pd-list@iem.at >>> Cc: >>> Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 >>> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >>> >>> >>> Hey Ed, >>> >>> I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make > them only >>> send the GUI updates when something actually has changed. This can > greatly >>> reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. >>> >>> Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and see > if you >>> still get freezes? >>> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ >>> >>> .hc >>> >>> On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: >>>> Hi List, >>>> >>>> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" > problem as >>> it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... >>>> >>>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP > GUIs, and I >>> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI > objects >>> stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there > is a >>> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is > making some >>> kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - > I'm gonna >>> prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to > know how >>> or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by > setting flags >>> on the command line. >>>> >>>> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance > time, since >>> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will > not want to >>> program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an > idea. The >>> really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker > (which I >>> think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now). >>>> >>>> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, > lots of >>> externals compiled and loaded. >>>> >>>> Warm wishes, >>>> Ed >>>> >>>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >>>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
While you're at it, it would be great if you could also try pd-l2ork and report any gui overload issues. There are debs available on the site (http://l2ork.music.vt.edu), although the most up-to-date ones are found in the http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/ folder. You can also install from git using automated install script. Best wishes, Ico > -Original Message- > From: pd-list-boun...@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-boun...@iem.at] On Behalf Of > Ed Kelly > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 6:16 PM > To: Hans-Christoph Steiner; pd-list@iem.at > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > Hey Hans... > > I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu versions to run > on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the source code > of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in linux_make/, then I > tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. > > install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd- > extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > test -z "" || (\ > install -p -m 644 /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd- > extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp && \ > ) > /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected > make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 > > ? > Ed > > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > > ----- Original Message - > > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > > To: pd-list@iem.at > > Cc: > > Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 > > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > > > > Hey Ed, > > > > I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make > > them only send the GUI updates when something actually has changed. > > This can greatly reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. > > > > Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and > > see if you still get freezes? > > http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ > > > > .hc > > > > On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > >> Hi List, > >> > >> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as > > it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... > >> > >> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and > >> I > > find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI > > objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering > > if there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I > > think Pd is making some kind of decision that "there's too much of > > this stuff - I'm gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" > > and I'd like to know how or if it is possible to control this process > > from within Pd, or by setting flags on the command line. > >> > >> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, > >> since > > the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will > > not want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to > > give you an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, > > especially quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches > about as far as I can go now). > >> > >> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, > >> lots of > > externals compiled and loaded. > >> > >> Warm wishes, > >> Ed > >> > >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > >> > >> > >> > >> ___ > >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >> > > > > ___ > > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
Have you tried using the Pd-extended PPA, there is a Lucid package there: https://launchpad.net/~eighthave/+archive/pd-extended sudo add-apt-repository ppa:eighthave/pd-extended .hc On Jan 4, 2013, at 6:15 PM, Ed Kelly wrote: > Hey Hans... > > I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu versions to > run on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the source code > of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in linux_make/, then I > tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. > > install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > test -z "" || (\ > install -p -m 644 > /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp > && \ > ) > /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected > make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 > > ? > Ed > > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > > - Original Message ----- >> From: Hans-Christoph Steiner >> To: pd-list@iem.at >> Cc: >> Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 >> Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload >> >> >> Hey Ed, >> >> I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make them >> only >> send the GUI updates when something actually has changed. This can greatly >> reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. >> >> Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and see if >> you >> still get freezes? >> http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ >> >> .hc >> >> On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: >>> Hi List, >>> >>> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as >> it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... >>> >>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I >> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects >> stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a >> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making >> some >> kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna >> prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how >> or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting >> flags >> on the command line. >>> >>> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since >> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not >> want to >> program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea. >> The >> really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker (which >> I >> think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now). >>> >>> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of >> externals compiled and loaded. >>> >>> Warm wishes, >>> Ed >>> >>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >> >> ___ >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
Hey Hans... I'm on Lucid (10.04LTS Ubuntu). I've tried to get later Ubuntu versions to run on my new and old machines with no success, so I compiled the source code of Pd-extended 0.43 (2012-12-28 build). All was fine in linux_make/, then I tried "sudo make install" from packages directory. install -p -m 644 jmmmp-meta.pd \ /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp test -z "" || (\ install -p -m 644 /home/edward/software/pd/extended/0.43/pd-extended/packages/build/lib/pd-extended/extra/jmmmp && \ ) /bin/sh: Syntax error: ")" unexpected make[2]: *** [libdir_install] Error 2 ? Ed Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! http://sharktracks.co.uk/ - Original Message - > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner > To: pd-list@iem.at > Cc: > Sent: Friday, 28 December 2012, 5:22 > Subject: Re: [PD] GUI overload > > > Hey Ed, > > I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make them only > send the GUI updates when something actually has changed. This can greatly > reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. > > Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and see if you > still get freezes? > http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ > > .hc > > On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: >> Hi List, >> >> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as > it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... >> >> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I > find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects > stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a > specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making > some > kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna > prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how > or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting > flags > on the command line. >> >> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since > the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not want > to > program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea. The > really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker (which > I > think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now). >> >> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of > externals compiled and loaded. >> >> Warm wishes, >> Ed >> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/ >> >> >> >> ___ >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
Hey Ed, I just committed a couple more fixes for [tgl] and [mknob] that make them only send the GUI updates when something actually has changed. This can greatly reduce the amount of traffic to the GUI. Can you try your patch with the 2012-12-28 build of Pd-extended and see if you still get freezes? http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2012-12-28/ .hc On 12/16/2012 08:47 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > Hi List, > > I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard to > say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... > > I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I find > the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects stop > responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a > specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making > some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna > prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how or if > it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting flags on > the command line. > > I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since the > really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not want to > program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea. The > really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker (which > I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now). > > System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of > externals compiled and loaded. > > Warm wishes, > Ed > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > > > > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
My worry is, I'm not sure if there's still a problem out there that the || -. + change fixes. Maybe I should try to cook up a formal definition of what "working correctly" should consist of :) M On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 09:30:40PM -0500, Ivica Bukvic wrote: > Miller, > > Pd-l2ork has this fix since your original post on the PD list and I've yet > to see any regressions. Many thanks for the suggestion. That said, I've yet > to understand the logic behind it ;-). > > P.S. I also discovered quite a while ago that netreceive had a tendency to > freeze GUI permanently, likely due to asynchronous message processing. I > fixed this by enqueuing its messages and syncing them with the main PD > loop. This has been a part of pd-l2ork for over a year without a single GUI > freeze. That said, I did encounter situations where high traffic would > freeze GUI temporarily and then resume (albeit running now behind the > actual timeline as the GUI would simply resume as if nothing happened, > rather than processing all calls that have piled up since the temporary > freeze happened and for which time has already passed, e.g. having a timer > in a score that freezes and then resumes from the moment it was stuck > rather than adding seconds lost since such calls should've been enqueued > while the freeze was in effect). This may have been in part due to atom > cpus being taxed to their very limits. I've yet to see whether your > proposed fix resolves the lingering issue. > > HTH > > Best wishes, > > Ico > On Dec 20, 2012 7:02 PM, "Miller Puckette" wrote: > > > OK... I've pushed a change that seems to have fixed the > > arrays-atop-updating > > problem (at lest in the Brane example). Not sure if I should also commit > > the > > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) ---> + change > > as well (somehow I think it should never be necessary to do that but I'm > > realizing how little I understand Pd's scheduler.) > > > > cheers > > M > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:17:35PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > > > > It seems that there are a number of issues here: > > > > > > * GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed) > > > > > > * arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this on > > Windows, and it looks like only Mac OS X is affected > > > > > > * all GUI activity stopping related to: > > > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) > > > > > > > > > * GUI objects sending updates to GUI as fast as they receive them even > > tho the screen will never update faster than every ~10ms. > > > > > > * some GUI updates send lots of raw Tcl code to be parsed, compiled, and > > run in realtime > > > > > > .hc > > > > > > On Dec 20, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Ed Kelly wrote: > > > > > > > OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the > > other GUI objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this is > > running on GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change them > > with the mouse, but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the > > pattern-number in one of my sequencers). > > > > > > > > Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually > > dealing with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another > > concerning the rest of the GUI. > > > > > > > > Ed > > > >> > > > > > > > >> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that > > Porres > > > >> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to > > Pd-0.43's new > > > >> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which > > doesn't use > > > >> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows. > > > >> > > > >> > > https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070 > > > >> > > > >> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're > > running > > > >> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you. > > > >> > > > >> .hc > > > >> > > > >> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i > > mean, I > > > >>> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s > > > >> on every > > > >>> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per > > second down > > > >>> to Pd. > > > >>> > > > >>> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying > > > >> problem, it > > > >>> will just make it harder to recreate it :) > > > >>> > > > >>> M > > > >>> > > > >>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner > > wrote: > > > > > > I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres > > > >> submitted. It > > > looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates > > > >> being > > > sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per > > > >> second of > > > Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl > > > >>
Re: [PD] GUI overload
Miller,
Pd-l2ork has this fix since your original post on the PD list and I've yet
to see any regressions. Many thanks for the suggestion. That said, I've yet
to understand the logic behind it ;-).
P.S. I also discovered quite a while ago that netreceive had a tendency to
freeze GUI permanently, likely due to asynchronous message processing. I
fixed this by enqueuing its messages and syncing them with the main PD
loop. This has been a part of pd-l2ork for over a year without a single GUI
freeze. That said, I did encounter situations where high traffic would
freeze GUI temporarily and then resume (albeit running now behind the
actual timeline as the GUI would simply resume as if nothing happened,
rather than processing all calls that have piled up since the temporary
freeze happened and for which time has already passed, e.g. having a timer
in a score that freezes and then resumes from the moment it was stuck
rather than adding seconds lost since such calls should've been enqueued
while the freeze was in effect). This may have been in part due to atom
cpus being taxed to their very limits. I've yet to see whether your
proposed fix resolves the lingering issue.
HTH
Best wishes,
Ico
On Dec 20, 2012 7:02 PM, "Miller Puckette" wrote:
> OK... I've pushed a change that seems to have fixed the
> arrays-atop-updating
> problem (at lest in the Brane example). Not sure if I should also commit
> the
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) ---> + change
> as well (somehow I think it should never be necessary to do that but I'm
> realizing how little I understand Pd's scheduler.)
>
> cheers
> M
>
> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:17:35PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >
> > It seems that there are a number of issues here:
> >
> > * GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed)
> >
> > * arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this on
> Windows, and it looks like only Mac OS X is affected
> >
> > * all GUI activity stopping related to:
> > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui())
> >
> >
> > * GUI objects sending updates to GUI as fast as they receive them even
> tho the screen will never update faster than every ~10ms.
> >
> > * some GUI updates send lots of raw Tcl code to be parsed, compiled, and
> run in realtime
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On Dec 20, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
> >
> > > OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the
> other GUI objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this is
> running on GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change them
> with the mouse, but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the
> pattern-number in one of my sequencers).
> > >
> > > Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually
> dealing with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another
> concerning the rest of the GUI.
> > >
> > > Ed
> > >>
> > >
> > >> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that
> Porres
> > >> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to
> Pd-0.43's new
> > >> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which
> doesn't use
> > >> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
> > >>
> > >>
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
> > >>
> > >> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're
> running
> > >> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
> > >>
> > >> .hc
> > >>
> > >> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i
> mean, I
> > >>> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s
> > >> on every
> > >>> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per
> second down
> > >>> to Pd.
> > >>>
> > >>> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying
> > >> problem, it
> > >>> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
> > >>>
> > >>> M
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner
> wrote:
> >
> > I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres
> > >> submitted. It
> > looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates
> > >> being
> > sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per
> > >> second of
> > Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl
> > >> parser and
> > compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that
> gets
> > >> sent and
> > also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can
> take
> > advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
> >
> > .hc
> >
> > On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > > This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
> > >
> > > int sys_pollgui(void)
> > > {
> > > return (sys_domicrosleep(0,
Re: [PD] GUI overload
OK... I've pushed a change that seems to have fixed the arrays-atop-updating
problem (at lest in the Brane example). Not sure if I should also commit the
return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui()) ---> + change
as well (somehow I think it should never be necessary to do that but I'm
realizing how little I understand Pd's scheduler.)
cheers
M
On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 12:17:35PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> It seems that there are a number of issues here:
>
> * GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed)
>
> * arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this on
> Windows, and it looks like only Mac OS X is affected
>
> * all GUI activity stopping related to:
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui())
>
>
> * GUI objects sending updates to GUI as fast as they receive them even tho
> the screen will never update faster than every ~10ms.
>
> * some GUI updates send lots of raw Tcl code to be parsed, compiled, and run
> in realtime
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 20, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
>
> > OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the other
> > GUI objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this is
> > running on GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change them
> > with the mouse, but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the
> > pattern-number in one of my sequencers).
> >
> > Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually
> > dealing with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another
> > concerning the rest of the GUI.
> >
> > Ed
> >>
> >
> >> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that Porres
> >> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to Pd-0.43's
> >> new
> >> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which doesn't use
> >> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
> >>
> >> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
> >>
> >> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're
> >> running
> >> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
> >>
> >> .hc
> >>
> >> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>
> >>> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
> >>> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s
> >> on every
> >>> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
> >>> to Pd.
> >>>
> >>> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying
> >> problem, it
> >>> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
> >>>
> >>> M
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres
> >> submitted. It
> looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates
> >> being
> sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per
> >> second of
> Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl
> >> parser and
> compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets
> >> sent and
> also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
> advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
>
> .hc
>
> On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
> >
> > int sys_pollgui(void)
> > {
> > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> > }
> >
> > with:
> >
> > int sys_pollgui(void)
> > {
> > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> > }
> >
> > It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input
> >> from GUI and
> > other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so
> >> that sys_poll_togui() never
> > gets called.
> >
> > I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than
> >> bewail the fact
> > that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished
> >> that the
> > sound was still working :)
> >
> > Miller
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
> >> Hi List,
> >>
> >> I'm not going to say whether this is a
> >> "recurrent" problem as it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the
> >> GUI has affected it...
> >>
> >> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP
> >> GUIs, and I find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where
> >> the GUI
> >> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if
> >> there
> >> is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is
> >> making
> >> some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm
> >> gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" a
Re: [PD] GUI overload
It seems that there are a number of issues here:
* GUI objects sending every update, regardless of change (fixed)
* arrays stop updating on Mac OS X (pinpointed) I just tested this on Windows,
and it looks like only Mac OS X is affected
* all GUI activity stopping related to:
return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui())
* GUI objects sending updates to GUI as fast as they receive them even tho the
screen will never update faster than every ~10ms.
* some GUI updates send lots of raw Tcl code to be parsed, compiled, and run in
realtime
.hc
On Dec 20, 2012, at 5:54 AM, Ed Kelly wrote:
> OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the other
> GUI objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this is running
> on GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change them with the
> mouse, but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the pattern-number
> in one of my sequencers).
>
> Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually dealing
> with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another concerning the
> rest of the GUI.
>
> Ed
>>
>
>> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that Porres
>> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to Pd-0.43's new
>> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which doesn't use
>> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
>>
>> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're running
>> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>
>>> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
>>> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s
>> on every
>>> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
>>> to Pd.
>>>
>>> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying
>> problem, it
>>> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres
>> submitted. It
looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates
>> being
sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per
>> second of
Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl
>> parser and
compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets
>> sent and
also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
.hc
On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> }
>
> with:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> }
>
> It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input
>> from GUI and
> other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so
>> that sys_poll_togui() never
> gets called.
>
> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than
>> bewail the fact
> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished
>> that the
> sound was still working :)
>
> Miller
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I'm not going to say whether this is a
>> "recurrent" problem as it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the
>> GUI has affected it...
>>
>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP
>> GUIs, and I find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the
>> GUI
>> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if
>> there
>> is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is
>> making
>> some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm
>> gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know
>> how or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by
>> setting
>> flags on the command line.
>>
>> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance
>> time, since the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I
>> will
>> not want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you
>> an
>> idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
>> quadtracker
>> (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go
>> now).
>>
>> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid),
>> Pd-0.43-4, lots of externals compiled and loaded.
>
Re: [PD] GUI overload
OK, well in fact the problem was not arrays updating. It was all the other GUI
objects (sliders, mknob, num2 etc) that would freeze, and this is running on
GNU/Linux. This was a real problem, since I could change them with the mouse,
but the results of the change were not shown (e.g. the pattern-number in one of
my sequencers).
Changing sys_pollgui() did fix this, so perhaps what we are actually dealing
with is two separate issues, one concerning arrays and another concerning the
rest of the GUI.
Ed
>
> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that Porres
> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to Pd-0.43's new
> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which doesn't use
> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
>
> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're running
> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>
>> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
>> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s
> on every
>> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
>> to Pd.
>>
>> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying
> problem, it
>> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
>>
>> M
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>>
>>> I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres
> submitted. It
>>> looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates
> being
>>> sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per
> second of
>>> Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl
> parser and
>>> compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets
> sent and
>>> also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
>>> advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
>>>
>>> .hc
>>>
>>> On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
int sys_pollgui(void)
{
return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
}
with:
int sys_pollgui(void)
{
return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
}
It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input
> from GUI and
other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so
> that sys_poll_togui() never
gets called.
I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than
> bewail the fact
that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished
> that the
sound was still working :)
Miller
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I'm not going to say whether this is a
> "recurrent" problem as it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the
> GUI has affected it...
>
> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP
> GUIs, and I find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the
> GUI
> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if
> there
> is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is
> making
> some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm
> gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know
> how or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by
> setting
> flags on the command line.
>
> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance
> time, since the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I
> will
> not want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you
> an
> idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
> quadtracker
> (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now).
>
> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid),
> Pd-0.43-4, lots of externals compiled and loaded.
>
> Warm wishes,
> Ed
>
> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with
> dynamics!
> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
> ___
> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
___
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>>
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> http://lists.puredata.in
Re: [PD] GUI overload
Excellent, thanks! For what its worth, I tracked it down by using 'git
bisect', a very handy tool. I customized makefile.mac since the build systems
in git didn't always work.
.hc
On Dec 19, 2012, at 2:42 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> Hmmm... I'll have a look. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting on this one!
>
> M
>
> On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 09:39:02AM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that Porres
>> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to Pd-0.43's new
>> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which doesn't use
>> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
>>
>> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
>>
>> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're running
>> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>
>>> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
>>> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s on every
>>> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
>>> to Pd.
>>>
>>> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying problem, it
>>> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
>>>
>>> M
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres submitted. It
looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates being
sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per second of
Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl parser and
compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets sent
and
also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
.hc
On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> }
>
> with:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> }
>
> It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input from GUI and
> other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so that sys_poll_togui()
> never
> gets called.
>
> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the
> fact
> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that
> the
> sound was still working :)
>
> Miller
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard
>> to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>>
>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I
>> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI
>> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering
>> if there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I
>> think Pd is making some kind of decision that "there's too much of this
>> stuff - I'm gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd
>> like to know how or if it is possible to control this process from
>> within Pd, or by setting flags on the command line.
>>
>> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since
>> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not
>> want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you
>> an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
>> quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far
>> as I can go now).
>>
>> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
>> externals compiled and loaded.
>>
>> Warm wishes,
>> Ed
>>
>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>
>
>> ___
>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
>
> ___
> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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>
___
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http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>>
Re: [PD] GUI overload
Hmmm... I'll have a look. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting on this one!
M
On Wed, Dec 19, 2012 at 09:39:02AM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that Porres
> reported. I think its a totally different problem related to Pd-0.43's new
> portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which doesn't use
> protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
>
> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
>
> Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're running
> on Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
>
> .hc
>
> On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>
> > OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
> > don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s on every
> > tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
> > to Pd.
> >
> > Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying problem, it
> > will just make it harder to recreate it :)
> >
> > M
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
> >>
> >> I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres submitted. It
> >> looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates being
> >> sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per second of
> >> Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl parser and
> >> compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets sent
> >> and
> >> also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
> >> advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
> >>
> >> .hc
> >>
> >> On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> >>> This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
> >>>
> >>> int sys_pollgui(void)
> >>> {
> >>>return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> >>> }
> >>>
> >>> with:
> >>>
> >>> int sys_pollgui(void)
> >>> {
> >>>return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> >>> }
> >>>
> >>> It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input from GUI and
> >>> other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so that sys_poll_togui()
> >>> never
> >>> gets called.
> >>>
> >>> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the
> >>> fact
> >>> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that
> >>> the
> >>> sound was still working :)
> >>>
> >>> Miller
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard
> to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>
> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I
> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI
> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering
> if there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I
> think Pd is making some kind of decision that "there's too much of this
> stuff - I'm gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd
> like to know how or if it is possible to control this process from
> within Pd, or by setting flags on the command line.
>
> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since
> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not
> want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you
> an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
> quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far
> as I can go now).
>
> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
> externals compiled and loaded.
>
> Warm wishes,
> Ed
>
> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
> >>>
> >>>
> ___
> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
>
___
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list
UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
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Re: [PD] GUI overload
I tracked down the commit that seems to be causing the problem that Porres
reported. I think its a totally different problem related to Pd-0.43's new
portaudio implementation. It does not affect GNU/Linux, which doesn't use
protaudio. I haven't tested it on Windows.
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3573542&group_id=55736&atid=478070
Ed, if part of your problem is arrays that stop updating and you're running on
Mac OS X or maybe Windows, this might also be affecting you.
.hc
On Dec 17, 2012, at 3:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s on every
> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
> to Pd.
>
> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying problem, it
> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
>
> M
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>> I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres submitted. It
>> looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates being
>> sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per second of
>> Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl parser and
>> compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets sent
>> and
>> also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
>> advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>> This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
>>>
>>> int sys_pollgui(void)
>>> {
>>>return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
>>> }
>>>
>>> with:
>>>
>>> int sys_pollgui(void)
>>> {
>>>return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
>>> }
>>>
>>> It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input from GUI and
>>> other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so that sys_poll_togui()
>>> never
>>> gets called.
>>>
>>> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the fact
>>> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that the
>>> sound was still working :)
>>>
>>> Miller
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
Hi List,
I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard to
say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I
find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI
objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if
there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd
is making some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm
gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know
how or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by
setting flags on the command line.
I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since
the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not
want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you
an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far
as I can go now).
System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
externals compiled and loaded.
Warm wishes,
Ed
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>>
>>>
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Re: [PD] GUI overload
Seems like there is multiple issues going on here. I've been working with
Porres' Brane-e patch, where the array updates while recording in 0.42 but not
in 0.43. It seems that in 0.43, scalar_vis only gets calls once when the
recording starts, then again only after the recording has finished.
But now, in a bizarre twist, it has fixed itself in every Pd installed on my
system. Before this problem used to happen every time with 0.43 vanilla and
extended. Now it works everywhere, even on the binary packages, which I
definitely didn't change.
When I was able to reproduce the Brane-e problem, changing sys_pollgui()
didn't affect it either way.
.hc
On 12/17/2012 03:12 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
> don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s on every
> tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
> to Pd.
>
> Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying problem, it
> will just make it harder to recreate it :)
>
> M
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>>
>> I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres submitted. It
>> looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates being
>> sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per second of
>> Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl parser and
>> compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets sent
>> and
>> also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
>> advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
>>
>> .hc
>>
>> On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
>>> This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
>>>
>>> int sys_pollgui(void)
>>> {
>>> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
>>> }
>>>
>>> with:
>>>
>>> int sys_pollgui(void)
>>> {
>>> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
>>> }
>>>
>>> It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input from GUI and
>>> other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so that sys_poll_togui()
>>> never
>>> gets called.
>>>
>>> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the fact
>>> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that the
>>> sound was still working :)
>>>
>>> Miller
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
Hi List,
I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard to
say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I
find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI
objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if
there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd
is making some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm
gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know
how or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by
setting flags on the command line.
I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since
the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not
want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you
an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far
as I can go now).
System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
externals compiled and loaded.
Warm wishes,
Ed
Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>>>
>>>
___
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Re: [PD] GUI overload
OK... except that I don't know why this works yet... by which i mean, I
don't think it's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 is returning 1s on every
tick unless teh GUI itself is sending hundreds of messages per second down
to Pd.
Reducing the average volume of trafic won't solve the underlying problem, it
will just make it harder to recreate it :)
M
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 08:00:31PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
>
> I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres submitted. It
> looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates being
> sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per second of
> Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl parser and
> compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets sent and
> also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
> advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
>
> .hc
>
> On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> > This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
> >
> > int sys_pollgui(void)
> > {
> > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> > }
> >
> > with:
> >
> > int sys_pollgui(void)
> > {
> > return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> > }
> >
> > It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input from GUI and
> > other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so that sys_poll_togui()
> > never
> > gets called.
> >
> > I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the fact
> > that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that the
> > sound was still working :)
> >
> > Miller
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
> >> Hi List,
> >>
> >> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard to
> >> say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
> >>
> >> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I
> >> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI
> >> objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if
> >> there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd
> >> is making some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm
> >> gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know
> >> how or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by
> >> setting flags on the command line.
> >>
> >> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since
> >> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not
> >> want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you
> >> an idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially
> >> quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far
> >> as I can go now).
> >>
> >> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
> >> externals compiled and loaded.
> >>
> >> Warm wishes,
> >> Ed
> >>
> >> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
> >> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
> >
> >
> >> ___
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> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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> >
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Re: [PD] GUI overload
I've seen similar things, like with the patches that Porres submitted. It
looks like what's happening is that when there are too many updates being
sent, a lot of them get dropped. Its pretty easy to get 250k per second of
Tcl code being sent to the GUI, so we're asking a lot of the Tcl parser and
compiler. The solution is to reduce the amount of Tcl code that gets sent and
also use Tcl procs to handle bigger chunks of stuff so that we can take
advantage of Tcl caching parsed and compiled procs.
.hc
On 12/16/2012 01:47 PM, Miller Puckette wrote:
> This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> }
>
> with:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> }
>
> It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input from GUI and
> other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so that sys_poll_togui() never
> gets called.
>
> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the fact
> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that the
> sound was still working :)
>
> Miller
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard to
>> say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>>
>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I find
>> the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects stop
>> responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a
>> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making
>> some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna
>> prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how or if
>> it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting flags
>> on the command line.
>>
>> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since the
>> really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not want to
>> program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea.
>> The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker
>> (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go
>> now).
>>
>> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
>> externals compiled and loaded.
>>
>> Warm wishes,
>> Ed
>>
>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>
>
>> ___
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>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
>> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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>
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Re: [PD] GUI overload
>This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
> }
>
> with:
>
> int sys_pollgui(void)
> {
> return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
> }
That's great! The hack seems to work really well.
> I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the
> fact
> that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that the
> sound was still working :)
...that's the best way a glitch could happen I suppose, but anything to reduce
"PANIC!" moments while performing will improve my life a lot <:->
Ed
>
> Miller
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
>> Hi List,
>>
>> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as
> it's hard to say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>>
>> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I
> find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects
> stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a
> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making
> some
> kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna
> prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how
> or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting
> flags
> on the command line.
>>
>> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since
> the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not want
> to
> program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea. The
> really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker (which
> I
> think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now).
>>
>> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
> externals compiled and loaded.
>>
>> Warm wishes,
>> Ed
>>
>> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
>> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
>
>
>> ___
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> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Re: [PD] GUI overload
nice topic; these things happen to me too. Audio is prioritized and GUI gets messy. ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] GUI overload
This is just a guess... in s_inter.c, try replacing:
int sys_pollgui(void)
{
return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) || sys_poll_togui());
}
with:
int sys_pollgui(void)
{
return (sys_domicrosleep(0, 1) + sys_poll_togui());
}
It's possible that sys_domicrosleep(0 - which polls for input from GUI and
other FDs - isn't ever returning "idle" (zero) so that sys_poll_togui() never
gets called.
I've also seen a patch's GUI stop updating, but rather than bewail the fact
that my GUI was dead, my immediate reactions was to be astonished that the
sound was still working :)
Miller
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 01:47:43PM +, Ed Kelly wrote:
> Hi List,
>
> I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard to
> say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it...
>
> I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I find
> the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI objects stop
> responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if there is a
> specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd is making
> some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm gonna
> prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how or if
> it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting flags on
> the command line.
>
> I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since the
> really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not want to
> program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an idea. The
> really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially quadtracker (which
> I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as I can go now).
>
> System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of
> externals compiled and loaded.
>
> Warm wishes,
> Ed
>
> Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics!
> http://sharktracks.co.uk/
> ___
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Re: [PD] GUI overload
Without seeing the patch this may be tricky to diagnose. If I had to guess, I would say you are redundantly updating something too quickly. FWIW, in pd-l2ork k12 mode every object is a gop abstraction with many having live gui components. Even with dozens of such abstractions (I've seen as many as 50ish) and high rate of metros on a measly netbook, there were no problems... On Dec 16, 2012 8:49 AM, "Ed Kelly" wrote: > Hi List, > > I'm not going to say whether this is a "recurrent" problem as it's hard to > say whether the rewrite of the GUI has affected it... > > I'm using a lot of abstractions with larger GOP or non-GOP GUIs, and I > find the following problem occurs. There comes a point where the GUI > objects stop responding in a patch when it is reloaded. I am wondering if > there is a specific limit to GUI objects that could be changed. I think Pd > is making some kind of decision that "there's too much of this stuff - I'm > gonna prioritize the audio and not worry about it" and I'd like to know how > or if it is possible to control this process from within Pd, or by setting > flags on the command line. > > I'm also making less GUI intensive versions for performance time, since > the really big GUI patches are often pattern-sequencers which I will not > want to program when I am performing. Example patch enclosed to give you an > idea. The really GUI-intensive objects are the trackers, especially > quadtracker (which I think has pushed the GUI of Pd patches about as far as > I can go now). > > System: quad core i5 PC running Ubuntu (10.04 Lucid), Pd-0.43-4, lots of > externals compiled and loaded. > > Warm wishes, > Ed > > Gemnotes-0.2: Live music notation for Pure Data, now with dynamics! > http://sharktracks.co.uk/ > ___ > Pd-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
