Re: [PD] gem-models
On 3/4/07, Nikola Jeremic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: is it possible to do something with a model in pd? i have it quite static at the moment... and is there a good tutorial about [multimodel] and how to use it? the help files is quite minimal. Is this the way to get more dynamic models (like moving-rotating parts or something like that)? You can try using the groups for that. I saw someone rotate the legs of a turtle model using them, The vertex_array objects have a model loader too. There are a few manipulations available but the whole system is not complete (and may never be done). cgc ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
this came out as an interesting topic :) btw, im now 1 week with wings3d and i love it. But now i have the next question: is it possible to do something with a model in pd? i have it quite static at the moment... and is there a good tutorial about [multimodel] and how to use it? the help files is quite minimal. Is this the way to get more dynamic models (like moving-rotating parts or something like that)? thanx nikola On 3/4/07, chris clepper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In theory the bitmap should lay over the object using pix_texture, but that is not always the case in practice. I added the ability to select groups to allow different textures for different parts of the model. You need one model object per group to do this. On 3/3/07, Cypod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > In part 4 you demonstrate uv mapping with a bitmap. Have you > successfully got those uv mapped bitmaps onto geometry within gem? Do you > just include the bmp in the same folder with the obj and mtl? > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
In theory the bitmap should lay over the object using pix_texture, but that is not always the case in practice. I added the ability to select groups to allow different textures for different parts of the model. You need one model object per group to do this. On 3/3/07, Cypod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: In part 4 you demonstrate uv mapping with a bitmap. Have you successfully got those uv mapped bitmaps onto geometry within gem? Do you just include the bmp in the same folder with the obj and mtl? ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
In part 4 you demonstrate uv mapping with a bitmap. Have you successfully got those uv mapped bitmaps onto geometry within gem? Do you just include the bmp in the same folder with the obj and mtl? On 3/2/07, Malte Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I made a while ago a 4 part wingstutorial which might help. Wings is great for lowpoly modelling , read realtime 3D objects. http://www.block4.com/index.php?id=65 Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com- next events: 2.3. DJ together with Xyramat at The Thing Party, Buttclub Hamburg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- B~ www.cypod.co.nr ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
Hallo, Malte Steiner hat gesagt: // Malte Steiner wrote: > I made a while ago a 4 part wingstutorial which might help. Wings is > great for lowpoly modelling , read realtime 3D objects. > > http://www.block4.com/index.php?id=65 These look very nice! I also use Wings3D for quick modelling because I've never invested the time to learn the Blender keyboard shortcuts. It's a small, fast and stable editor and I also very much recommend it as a support tool for Gem. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ __footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
I made a while ago a 4 part wingstutorial which might help. Wings is great for lowpoly modelling , read realtime 3D objects. http://www.block4.com/index.php?id=65 Cheers, Malte -- Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com- next events: 2.3. DJ together with Xyramat at The Thing Party, Buttclub Hamburg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
It's your lucky day. Try wings3d, it works on all platforms, has a most permissive BSD license, and you can make .obj : http://www.wings3d.com/ I couldn't figure out Blender yet either, but it was really easy for me to make some crazy random abstract shapes using wings3d, export as .obj, and use the shapes in GEM. ~David On 2/23/07, Nikola Jeremic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi list > > I would like to start working more with the .obj models in Gem, and i got > bored of the famous "venus" :) does anybody know where can i find some > otherones (i did not came so far with google) and i need an info on soft > (open-source would be great :) where I can design my own models. I ve tried > Blender, but it is to complicated and somehow my models dont work good with > pd :( it is getting very slow an crashes my machine (pc win). > > thanx 2 all > nikola > > -- > www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
ooops, I forgot to attach the kind of .obj file that works with this try, there it is in attachement. With routing the # characters we can tell the number of vertices in the file, that's why it has been modified a little bit, pc mtllib venus.mtl g default # vertices 711 # elements 1419 v 24.378 -91.44 27.94 v 21.59 12.7 -52.58 v 28.19 18.54 -45.97 v 15.24 18.03 -56.39 v -30.23 -16 -57.66 v -29.97 -28.19 -60.45 v -39.88 -38.61 -58.67 v -41.15 -24.64 -54.86 v -45.97 -34.8 -51.31 v -45.47 -24.38 -50.8 v -40.89 -8.38 -51.31 v -30.48 -4.57 -55.63 v -25.91 5.59 -53.85 v -35.31 4.57 -50.04 v -29.97 13.46 -51.05 v -41.15 3.56 -44.7 v -46.74 -12.45 -45.21 v -54.36 -45.21 -36.32 v -49.28 -25.65 -44.96 v -54.36 -31.24 -26.92 v -53.85 -22.1 -14.99 v -52.32 -19.05 -29.46 v -41.15 10.41 -41.66 v -35.81 -57.4 14.22 v -37.59 -43.94 8.13 v -57.4 -57.66 -3.56 v -49.53 -48.77 3.3 v -49.02 -39.37 1.02 v -56.39 -37.08 -12.19 v -55.37 -40.64 -5.84 v -38.1 18.03 -32.26 v -42.42 7.87 -23.88 v -46.23 1.52 -31.5 v -50.8 -9.91 -18.8 v -51.56 -21.59 -8.64 v -45.97 -21.84 -2.54 v -36.58 -29.97 4.83 v -33.53 -25.65 4.83 v -29.46 -30.99 6.6 v -28.19 -46.99 8.89 v -15.75 -49.28 10.41 v -22.1 -41.91 9.14 v -9.65 -45.72 10.92 v -10.67 -32.26 10.67 v -1.02 -45.47 10.92 v 7.62 -43.69 9.65 v 4.83 -31.5 10.41 v 16.76 -42.67 6.6 v 14.22 -38.35 7.37 v 23.37 -32.77 3.56 v 25.4 -41.4 4.32 v 34.8 -42.93 1.52 v 32.51 -36.32 1.02 v 28.45 -25.91 0 v 37.34 -24.13 -5.84 v 39.88 -35.56 -3.56 v 43.69 -44.7 -4.06 v 48.77 -62.23 -17.78 v 46.99 -56.39 -6.35 v 46.48 -40.39 -10.92 v 47.24 -39.37 -23.62 v 44.96 -25.65 -26.67 v 43.43 -23.88 -14.73 v 42.42 -12.19 -29.72 v 38.61 4.32 -31.5 v 21.08 -27.69 4.06 v 12.19 -29.97 8.38 v 2.79 -22.86 10.67 v 11.94 -15.75 9.14 v 8.89 -9.14 8.64 v 14.22 -6.35 6.86 v 17.53 -9.65 5.84 v 20.57 -14.73 4.83 v 26.16 -19.81 0.76 v 32.26 -16 -3.56 v 41.66 -13.46 -16.26 v 36.32 -10.41 -9.4 v 27.69 -6.6 -3.56 v 19.81 -2.03 1.78 v 14.73 0.76 4.06 v 0.25 0.76 0 v -0.25 -3.81 5.08 v 6.6 -2.54 5.84 v 4.32 -1.02 3.56 v 4.06 3.05 2.03 v 2.29 4.06 1.52 v -3.81 1.27 3.81 v -4.57 -1.27 5.84 v -5.08 -5.84 8.13 v 1.27 -11.94 9.4 v -10.16 -22.35 11.18 v -9.4 -11.68 10.41 v -9.4 -1.78 7.11 v -15.49 -0.51 5.84 v -18.03 -10.41 8.38 v -23.88 -19.05 7.87 v -37.34 -13.97 1.02 v -42.93 -10.92 -3.56 v -26.42 -2.03 0 v -22.1 5.59 -0.76 v -47.5 -6.6 -12.19 v -39.12 -2.54 -4.57 v -27.43 7.87 -4.83 v -36.07 13.72 -13.46 v -28.7 16 -5.08 v -22.35 11.43 -1.02 v -14.48 5.59 4.06 v -9.14 3.3 5.33 v -1.27 5.08 3.05 v 4.06 7.11 3.56 v 7.62 4.32 3.56 v 13.21 5.84 2.79 v 19.05 6.86 -1.02 v 24.38 8.89 -6.35 v 39.37 -1.52 -19.05 v 33.53 1.27 -11.68 v -9.4 13.97 5.08 v 28.45 33.02 -47.75 v 36.07 32.77 -30.99 v 34.54 22.1 -30.99 v 34.54 17.27 -20.07 v 6.1 12.45 4.32 v 11.43 11.18 3.56 v -2.79 14.22 5.08 v 36.07 27.94 -18.54 v 33.02 23.37 -13.21 v 24.89 17.27 -5.08 v 18.54 15.49 1.02 v -31.5 37.85 1.27 v -31.75 29.97 -2.03 v -29.46 21.08 -4.57 v -24.64 28.96 3.81 v -18.8 17.27 1.52 v -23.11 35.81 7.11 v -17.53 30.23 8.64 v -25.4 43.43 9.4 v 36.58 38.35 -13.46 v 31.75 36.07 -4.83 v 26.92 35.31 0 v 25.4 27.43 -1.52 v 18.03 21.08 2.03 v -9.65 18.8 5.08 v 11.18 20.57 5.33 v -2.29 20.57 5.33 v -10.92 25.65 9.14 v 3.3 29.72 8.38 v -10.16 34.54 11.43 v 2.03 40.39 10.92 v 14.22 33.02 8.89 v 19.05 34.29 6.35 v 24.38 42.67 3.56 v 31.24 48.26 -2.29 v 36.58 51.56 -10.16 v -18.8 44.2 11.43 v -11.94 48.01 12.7 v 16.51 52.32 9.14 v 23.62 53.34 6.35 v 29.72 55.88 1.27 v 33.02 58.93 -1.78 v 28.19 59.94 8.13 v 6.86 54.61 11.43 v 17.78 57.91 13.21 v 21.34 65.02 17.53 v 29.72 67.06 13.46 v 32.77 63.5 5.59 v 35.31 67.31 -4.57 v 36.07 69.34 -10.41 v 47.5 72.14 -16.51 v 37.85 39.37 -20.57 v 36.83 41.4 -30.23 v 38.1 52.83 -16.26 v 36.83 65.28 -13.72 v 37.85 53.34 -23.62 v 36.83 53.85 -29.72 v 18.29 44.45 -60.2 v 28.96 46.23 -49.78 v 28.96 52.58 -51.05 v 19.3 52.83 -60.96 v 20.83 66.8 -58.93 v 24.38 82.55 -59.69 v 27.43 96.01 -55.37 v 33.27 92.71 -48.77 v 29.21 64.52 -50.8 v 31.24 82.3 -51.31 v 35.81 64.52 -27.94 v 34.29 73.15 -37.85 v 40.13 80.01 -41.66 v 35.81 80.77 -40.13 v 36.07 90.42 -42.16 v 37.34 96.52 -43.94 v -22.35 14.22 -57.15 v -11.94 12.95 -55.88 v -2.29 12.95 -53.09 v 2.29 6.86 -53.85 v -33.27 21.59 -44.45 v -28.19 22.86 -53.34 v -19.3 27.18 -60.96 v -13.72 28.7 -59.18 v -6.1 31.24 -60.2 v -0.76 31.5 -59.44 v 8.64 26.42 -60.2 v 3.05 30.73 -61.21 v 10.16 48.51 -64.01 v 4.06 51.82 -65.28 v -2.79 51.82 -64.26 v -6.6 52.58 -63.5 v -15.49 49.28 -62.99 v -22.1 46.99 -63.25 v -29.21 43.94 -57.66 v -34.8 52.32 -53.59 v -35.56 40.13 -43.18 v -37.34 31.24 -28.19 v -34.29 25.4 -11.43 v -40.39 49.02 -23.11 v -36.07 34.04 -7.87 v -38.61 41.91 -5.84 v -42.93 62.23 -44.45 v -33.53 57.66 -59.44 v -25.15 60.96 -63.25 v -16 64.77 -63.75 v -7.37 70.1 -62.23 v -3.3 70.87 -62.74 v 3.3 71.63 -64.01 v 11.43 69.34 -62.74 v 13.97 85.09 -62.74 v 5.59 87.38 -63.25 v -4.57 84.58 -61.47 v -9.91 84.33 -60.71 v -19.3 81.53 -61.72 v -28.19 72.9 -61.72 v -36.83 68.07 -57.15 v 15.75 99.06 -59.94 v 5.59 100.58 -
Re: [PD] gem-models
David Powers a écrit : Ooohhh now you have me very curious... suddenly I envision creating .obj objects based on data from pd itself! I assume you're hinting that the format of .obj is simple enough you can make them without a 3d program?! yes exactly Sounds like a good job for Python (and then, pyext ... ) I've given a try with [textfile], but I'm stucked with stack overflows, it's attached, if anyone has a solution... It seems that an external scripting program might be necessary, indeed, for modifying the .obj file, I might also give a try with python... It would be wonderful to give a motion to those static .obj files. pc ~David On 2/23/07, Patco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Nikola Jeremic a écrit : > > > > Hi list > > > > I would like to start working more with the .obj models in Gem, > and i got > > bored of the famous "venus" :) > hello, you might be interested by opening venus.obj or any other .obj file with notepad or something like that. pc ___ Yahoo! Mail réinvente le mail ! Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface révolutionnaire. http://fr.mail.yahoo.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list #N canvas 348 152 654 428 10; #X floatatom 487 214 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 464 260 translate; #X msg 522 222 0 0 1; #X obj 41 388 gemwin; #X obj 440 187 gemhead; #X msg 16 282 create; #X msg 17 311 destroy; #X msg 93 308 1; #X msg 94 338 0; #X msg 585 291 0 1 0; #X obj 469 333 rotate; #X floatatom 487 293 0 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 187 330 gemhead 1; #X obj 187 368 world_light; #X text 367 3 load in a model file; #X obj 553 188 loadbang; #X obj 469 376 model ../data/venus.obj; #N canvas 22 20 213 300 Gem.init 0; #X obj 71 191 outlet; #X obj 71 81 loadbang; #X msg 101 134 reset; #X obj 71 109 t b b; #X msg 71 164 lighting 1; #X connect 1 0 3 0; #X connect 2 0 0 0; #X connect 3 0 4 0; #X connect 3 1 2 0; #X connect 4 0 0 0; #X restore 95 363 pd Gem.init; #N canvas 8 99 658 667 obj 0; #X obj 285 13 inlet; #X obj 362 208 list trim; #X obj 362 145 list prepend read; #X obj 285 35 route bang read write; #X obj 41 151 l2s .; #X obj 42 179 route obj; #X obj 104 210 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X obj 45 210 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X msg 277 202 rewind; #X obj 362 167 list append cr; #X obj 361 230 textfile; #X obj 218 144 r \$0-rew; #X obj 370 187 r \$0-txt; #X obj 136 179 t b a; #N canvas 339 -1 619 698 vertices 0; #X floatatom 107 324 7 0 0 2 X - -; #X floatatom 167 324 7 0 0 2 Y - -; #X floatatom 233 324 7 0 0 2 Z - -; #X obj 35 325 nbx 5 14 5 711 0 0 empty empty v_number 0 -7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1 711 256; #X obj 46 507 until; #X obj 142 111 route # v; #X obj 142 132 route vertices elements; #X floatatom 235 159 5 0 0 0 - - -; #X obj 170 192 until; #X msg 95 117 3; #X obj 181 215 s \$0-txt; #X obj 132 168 i; #X obj 132 189 + 4; #X obj 95 144 t b b a; #X obj 132 241 list; #X obj 169 239 s \$0-rew; #X obj 132 214 t b a b; #X obj 84 15 inlet; #X obj 161 662 s \$0-txt; #X obj 142 91 spigot 1; #X obj 196 72 spigot; #X obj 214 491 list prepend venus.mtl; #X obj 214 470 list prepend default; #X obj 213 450 list prepend 711; #X obj 326 429 r \$0-vertices; #X obj 309 405 r \$0-elements; #X obj 329 449 r \$0-g-ver; #X obj 341 471 r \$0-mtl; #X obj 213 429 list append 1419; #X obj 161 443 s \$0-sw; #X msg 186 419 0; #X obj 185 16 r \$0-sw; #N canvas 0 0 462 312 packit 0; #X obj 82 43 inlet; #X obj 134 54 inlet; #X obj 184 50 inlet; #X obj 155 187 outlet; #X obj 154 164 pack f f f; #X obj 94 102 / 1000; #X obj 157 121 t b a; #X obj 157 102 / 1000; #X obj 222 102 / 1000; #X obj 198 122 t b a; #X connect 0 0 5 0; #X connect 1 0 7 0; #X connect 2 0 8 0; #X connect 4 0 3 0; #X connect 5 0 4 0; #X connect 6 0 4 0; #X connect 6 1 4 1; #X connect 7 0 6 0; #X connect 8 0 9 0; #X connect 9 0 4 0; #X connect 9 1 4 2; #X restore 111 348 pd packit; #X obj 369 293 s \$0-txt; #X obj 130 15 inlet; #X obj 331 552 r \$0-obj; #X obj 201 615 list append; #X msg 160 419 1; #X obj 244 553 r \$0-objwrite; #X obj 201 591 spigot; #X obj 341 603 r \$0-obj; #X obj 318 659 list append; #X obj 304 634 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X msg 336 627 write test.obj cr; #X obj 248 398 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 -262144 -1 -1; #X msg 212 511 rewind \, set mtllib \$1 \, add g \$2 \, add # vertices \$3 \, add # elements \$4; #X obj 217 48 == 0; #X msg 127 416 2; #X msg 94 529 4; #X obj 45 485 i 711; #X obj 291 111 list prepend; #X obj 291 138 t l; #X obj 333 172 list append; #X obj 172 390 s \$0-rew; #X obj 111 368 t a b b b b; #X obj 369 239 list split 4; #X obj 457 239 t l; #X obj 333 206 list split 8; #X obj 369 266 list prepend add; #X obj 300 45 sel 2; #X obj 333 87 t b b b; #X obj 126 551 list prepend add v;
Re: [PD] gem-models
Ooohhh now you have me very curious... suddenly I envision creating .obj objects based on data from pd itself! I assume you're hinting that the format of .obj is simple enough you can make them without a 3d program?! Sounds like a good job for Python (and then, pyext ... ) ~David On 2/23/07, Patco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Nikola Jeremic a écrit : > > > > > > > Hi list > > > > > > I would like to start working more with the .obj models in Gem, > > and i got > > > bored of the famous "venus" :) > > > hello, you might be interested by opening venus.obj or any other .obj > file with notepad or something like that. > pc > > > > > > ___ > Yahoo! Mail réinvente le mail ! Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son > interface révolutionnaire. > http://fr.mail.yahoo.com > > > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
Nikola Jeremic a écrit : > > > > Hi list > > > > I would like to start working more with the .obj models in Gem, > and i got > > bored of the famous "venus" :) > hello, you might be interested by opening venus.obj or any other .obj file with notepad or something like that. pc ___ Yahoo! Mail réinvente le mail ! Découvrez le nouveau Yahoo! Mail et son interface révolutionnaire. http://fr.mail.yahoo.com ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
hey, thanks again to everybody. I just got wings3d and i love it. i will try later to make some things and see how it is going. Blender is cool, but i did not find a way trough, to lazy to learn something like this :) and thanx for the link to models. greets Nikola On 2/23/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: hi nicola i am working with the "same" setup (blender modeling, pd/gem using .obj files) and have absolutely no problems on all platfornms (xp, osx10.4, ubuntu6.06) actually blender is a very good choice for creating gem .obj files. i think, that one point is to create mesh models only. gem can only handle this kind of object, same as blender itself inside itś build in rt-engine. http://sketchup.com/ is a very simple free software with export options. i am not sure if it can export to .obj or you have to export .dxf or .3ds or whatever bleder can read, and in blender convert it to .obj for gem unfortunately google has bought sketchup, so it s not open-source i hope i could help you niki http://niki.xarch.at > Hi list > > I would like to start working more with the .obj models in Gem, and i got > bored of the famous "venus" :) does anybody know where can i find some > otherones (i did not came so far with google) and i need an info on soft > (open-source would be great :) where I can design my own models. I ve > tried > Blender, but it is to complicated and somehow my models dont work good > with > pd :( it is getting very slow an crashes my machine (pc win). > > thanx 2 all > nikola > > -- > www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic > ___ > PD-list@iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > -- www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] gem-models
You can find models here: http://www.turbosquid.com/ search for 'free' On Feb 23, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Nikola Jeremic wrote: Hi list I would like to start working more with the .obj models in Gem, and i got bored of the famous "venus" :) does anybody know where can i find some otherones (i did not came so far with google) and i need an info on soft (open-source would be great :) where I can design my own models. I ve tried Blender, but it is to complicated and somehow my models dont work good with pd :( it is getting very slow an crashes my machine (pc win). thanx 2 all nikola -- www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] gem-models
Hi list I would like to start working more with the .obj models in Gem, and i got bored of the famous "venus" :) does anybody know where can i find some otherones (i did not came so far with google) and i need an info on soft (open-source would be great :) where I can design my own models. I ve tried Blender, but it is to complicated and somehow my models dont work good with pd :( it is getting very slow an crashes my machine (pc win). thanx 2 all nikola -- www.echoplex-label.de/njeremic ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
