[PD] hi
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Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: [cut] Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a [cut] It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. [cut] Also, it's more marketable if Max has an object like [textedit] where the user can type multi-line text into a box. It's easier than picking through the Toxy graveyard and learning that you can't send messages to the widget unless its containing canvas is visible, then trying to work with [entry] and having the data you typed in the box disappear because you minimized the window. Then realizing that the whole reason you're looking for an object that corresponds to [textedit] is because you can't resize message boxes (and they don't appear on a gop canvas). -Jonathan You could try tkwidgets/text. I really should finish that library. Its close to done, and it'll probably a suite of nice GUI objects, including something like textedit. .hc Thinking about guish issues, which always come up in the max vs pd discussions... I lately thought quite a bit about this from reading the discussions on here, experimenting with some 'gui' made in GEM etc. and seeing stuff made with max5... Actually... I'm more and more thinking that maybe the best approach for full-fledged guis for Pd patches is an 'external' approach a la GrIPD... maybe using some standard widget set and maybe facilitating the netsend/receive process. Also exploring newer GUIs, like web-based (AJAX and similar) might be interesting for certain applications? GrIPD is already a remarkable tool, but imho we should probably explore further a paradigm of Pd as an 'audio engine'? (maybe something remarkable is already out there and I may not be aware of it :) All these are still open questions: personally I love the pd 'look and feel', but I do see an issue for certain applications and domains and when comparing to, say, max etc. Discussion welcome :) Bests, Lorenzo ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
If someone contribute to a really cool, pretty and performance-friendly GUI side for PureData, Max would become pretty much irrelevant now. 2010/9/14 Lorenzo lsut...@libero.it: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: [cut] Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a [cut] It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. [cut] Also, it's more marketable if Max has an object like [textedit] where the user can type multi-line text into a box. It's easier than picking through the Toxy graveyard and learning that you can't send messages to the widget unless its containing canvas is visible, then trying to work with [entry] and having the data you typed in the box disappear because you minimized the window. Then realizing that the whole reason you're looking for an object that corresponds to [textedit] is because you can't resize message boxes (and they don't appear on a gop canvas). -Jonathan You could try tkwidgets/text. I really should finish that library. Its close to done, and it'll probably a suite of nice GUI objects, including something like textedit. .hc Thinking about guish issues, which always come up in the max vs pd discussions... I lately thought quite a bit about this from reading the discussions on here, experimenting with some 'gui' made in GEM etc. and seeing stuff made with max5... Actually... I'm more and more thinking that maybe the best approach for full-fledged guis for Pd patches is an 'external' approach a la GrIPD... maybe using some standard widget set and maybe facilitating the netsend/receive process. Also exploring newer GUIs, like web-based (AJAX and similar) might be interesting for certain applications? GrIPD is already a remarkable tool, but imho we should probably explore further a paradigm of Pd as an 'audio engine'? (maybe something remarkable is already out there and I may not be aware of it :) All these are still open questions: personally I love the pd 'look and feel', but I do see an issue for certain applications and domains and when comparing to, say, max etc. Discussion welcome :) Bests, Lorenzo ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 3:36 PM, Bernardo Barros bernardobarr...@gmail.comwrote: If someone contribute to a really cool, pretty and performance-friendly GUI side for PureData, Max would become pretty much irrelevant now. The problem is what can be considered cool? Is Max 5's gui cool? maybe for someone and for someone else not. In a open community is really hard to decide but quite more rich the process. Because it is not plane but it consider cultural/historical/tecnological differences. When I start my fist workshops with PD in 2006 it was a mess work with different platfoms and OS versions (out of pd-vanila and Gem mostly); or just install pd external in some case (do you remember how was tricky install pdp, for example, in a mac in 2006?). Today for me is very easy during the workshops. And that because the process that this community is doing. Now I see many different developper branch: I guess the direction is have a pdlib fully working and take out all the GUI code from the pdcore. In this way we will not have to decide and impose to others one gui, one language, one way to work with pd but many different approaches will born (I'm imaging different GUIs with different language - qt, html5, gtk) So, all this boring word to say is just a process, and if you want to push it on some direction is up to you (general you and not to Bernardo :) my two cents husk ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010, Lorenzo wrote: Actually... I'm more and more thinking that maybe the best approach There is no best approach. There are several good ones, with upsides and downsides. GrIPD is already a remarkable tool, but imho we should probably explore further a paradigm of Pd as an 'audio engine'? As far as I am concerned, Pd is not audio-centric. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard -- Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
I am betting that it is not someone but many people who will do this. That's why there is a GUI plugin interface in 0.43, so we can have many people experimenting and developing ideas for how a dataflow GUI should be. http://puredata.info/docs/PdGuiPluginsAPI .hc On Sep 14, 2010, at 9:36 AM, Bernardo Barros wrote: If someone contribute to a really cool, pretty and performance-friendly GUI side for PureData, Max would become pretty much irrelevant now. 2010/9/14 Lorenzo lsut...@libero.it: Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: [cut] Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a [cut] It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. [cut] Also, it's more marketable if Max has an object like [textedit] where the user can type multi-line text into a box. It's easier than picking through the Toxy graveyard and learning that you can't send messages to the widget unless its containing canvas is visible, then trying to work with [entry] and having the data you typed in the box disappear because you minimized the window. Then realizing that the whole reason you're looking for an object that corresponds to [textedit] is because you can't resize message boxes (and they don't appear on a gop canvas). -Jonathan You could try tkwidgets/text. I really should finish that library. Its close to done, and it'll probably a suite of nice GUI objects, including something like textedit. .hc Thinking about guish issues, which always come up in the max vs pd discussions... I lately thought quite a bit about this from reading the discussions on here, experimenting with some 'gui' made in GEM etc. and seeing stuff made with max5... Actually... I'm more and more thinking that maybe the best approach for full-fledged guis for Pd patches is an 'external' approach a la GrIPD... maybe using some standard widget set and maybe facilitating the netsend/receive process. Also exploring newer GUIs, like web-based (AJAX and similar) might be interesting for certain applications? GrIPD is already a remarkable tool, but imho we should probably explore further a paradigm of Pd as an 'audio engine'? (maybe something remarkable is already out there and I may not be aware of it :) All these are still open questions: personally I love the pd 'look and feel', but I do see an issue for certain applications and domains and when comparing to, say, max etc. Discussion welcome :) Bests, Lorenzo ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
Jones, there are plenty of examples, if you go to help find helpful browser, there are libraries that help you work in bars, or other music stuff, even with a more nice interface, I recommend the library moonlib, Help / browser / reference/moonlib and Help/browser/ reference/Unauthorized library in the same route... give them a spin and maybe your experience a pleasant one ... anyway we are near I'm from Chile and what we need here ... José 2010/9/13 jm jones juan...@gmail.com 2010/9/11 Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com: Hi Juan, regarding resources, please find here my personal collection of Pd on-line resources: http://www.delicious.com/MarcoD2/bundle:PureData The right sidebar shows all Pd tags. Hope that helps, Best, Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net Thanks for the links and the feedback. These days Im playing a lot with PD I like it. One new thing in Max 5 is traditional musical time values, and new transport capabilities. Is something like that available in PD (working without milliseconds as measure)? Maybe it can be done in a simple way in pd, but Im a noob in this, so I want to know the big differences. Max is very polished, but in 3 days I discover a lot of cools things about pd. The community seems great, but this is not surprise, after all I'm in a LUG from about six years ago. Gracias Jose por la bienvenida! -- Juan Manuel Jones ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
Hi, On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 02:50:26AM -0300, jm jones wrote: One new thing in Max 5 is traditional musical time values, and new transport capabilities. Is something like that available in PD (working without milliseconds as measure)? Maybe it can be done in a simple way in pd, but Im a noob in this, so I want to know the big differences. Converting between milliseconds and other time scales like quarterbeats is just a matter of some math. The rj library I mentioned already contains mapping objects to convert between time counted in milliseconds and in beats: [m_ms2beat] and [m_beat2ms]. Both need a reference pulse measured in BPM, so you'd use them as [m_beat2ms 120] for example. (The object [m_bpm2ms] and [m_ms2bpm] convert bpm values, if you forgot how that's done.) Then when you feed [m_beat2ms 120] a number like 4, you get the duration of that in milliseconds, 2000 in this case. If you want to convert a whole list of beats to a ms-duration, you can apply this to every item of the list, easily done with something like [u_listmap] in rj or [list-map] from the list-abs collection (they are the same). Of course that's just for a start. As I see here: http://www.cycling74.com/docs/max5/vignettes/core/maxtime_syntax.html Max 5 seems to directly support inputting beats or ticks into time objects like [metro] which surely is nice, but with some helper abstractions like above can be cloned in Pd as well. I think, getting to know the math behind time conversions is a good excercise. There's no higher math involved, just divisions and multiplications, addition ad substraction and you've learn all of this at school, so there's no reason to be intimidated. But once you've gone through it, it will make you understand musical time a bit better and maybe even lead you to work with unusual polyrhythms like matching 5 against 7, which seems not to be covered by Max-5's strictly four-to-the-floor tick/beat based system. Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a counter sending to some global receiver. Read from this with [select] to get a kind of Max-5's [timepoint] clone. See, there's no magic behind these new Max 5 features, they just unified a bit what all Max/Pd users do anyway in their patches. Ciao -- Frank BarknechtDo You RjDj.me? _ __footils.org__ ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, jm jones wrote: Thanks for the links and the feedback. These days Im playing a lot with PD I like it. Even though you're not into video, you can benefit from using GridFlow. It's a generic tool in pretty much the same way that Jitter can be used for non-video too. Maybe it's even more so for GridFlow, but I wouldn't know, I never really tried Jitter. GridFlow also contains some things specifically for music (but not much). Note that the word 'grid' is used instead of 'matrix'. look at this : http://gridflow.ca/help/doremi-help.html http://gridflow.ca/help/qwerty_piano-help.html http://gridflow.ca/help/%23many-help.html http://gridflow.ca/help/display-help.html (etc) you can download it at http://gridflow.ca/ ___ | Mathieu Bouchard -- Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Frank Barknecht wrote: Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a counter sending to some global receiver. Read from this with [select] to get a kind of Max-5's [timepoint] clone. See, there's no magic behind these new Max 5 features, they just unified a bit what all Max/Pd users do anyway in their patches. It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. ___ | Mathieu Bouchard -- Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Mathieu Bouchard wrote: On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Frank Barknecht wrote: Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a counter sending to some global receiver. Read from this with [select] to get a kind of Max-5's [timepoint] clone. See, there's no magic behind these new Max 5 features, they just unified a bit what all Max/Pd users do anyway in their patches. It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. I mean than explain to potential buyers... typically people who don't know it yet, and would only take long-winded explanations if they come as part of a course... ___ | Mathieu Bouchard -- Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD To: Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 5:19 PM On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Frank Barknecht wrote: Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a counter sending to some global receiver. Read from this with [select] to get a kind of Max-5's [timepoint] clone. See, there's no magic behind these new Max 5 features, they just unified a bit what all Max/Pd users do anyway in their patches. It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. Better object documentation in Pd is a trivial feature in this sense-- it's easier for you to spend your time documenting GF objects than to explain how to read the source code. (See, there's no magic behind those GF objects!) Also, it's more marketable if Max has an object like [textedit] where the user can type multi-line text into a box. It's easier than picking through the Toxy graveyard and learning that you can't send messages to the widget unless its containing canvas is visible, then trying to work with [entry] and having the data you typed in the box disappear because you minimized the window. Then realizing that the whole reason you're looking for an object that corresponds to [textedit] is because you can't resize message boxes (and they don't appear on a gop canvas). -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 09:46 -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Mon, 9/13/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD To: Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 5:19 PM On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Frank Barknecht wrote: Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a counter sending to some global receiver. Read from this with [select] to get a kind of Max-5's [timepoint] clone. See, there's no magic behind these new Max 5 features, they just unified a bit what all Max/Pd users do anyway in their patches. It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. Better object documentation in Pd is a trivial feature in this sense-- it's easier for you to spend your time documenting GF objects than to explain how to read the source code. (See, there's no magic behind those GF objects!) Also, it's more marketable if Max has an object like [textedit] where the user can type multi-line text into a box. It's easier than picking through the Toxy graveyard and learning that you can't send messages to the widget unless its containing canvas is visible, then trying to work with [entry] and having the data you typed in the box disappear because you minimized the window. Then realizing that the whole reason you're looking for an object that corresponds to [textedit] is because you can't resize message boxes (and they don't appear on a gop canvas). -Jonathan You could try tkwidgets/text. I really should finish that library. Its close to done, and it'll probably a suite of nice GUI objects, including something like textedit. .hc ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 11:15 PM, Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/09/10 08:05, jm jones wrote: I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. 1/ If you need *extremely* low latency, and are prepared to put in the effort required to tweak and maintain your system carefully, then you can get lower latency on a Linux system, Max does not run on Linux. I am not sure to what extent this statement is correct. Apparently people are capable to obtain very low latencies with both MacOS and Windblows. Up until recently getting low latency was not easy in Linux. And in any case, tweaking a system for maximum performance and maintaining a system is difficult on any OS (well, it requires some specific knowledge). However, what you did not say is that once you know what you are doing, tweaking Linux to use minimum system resources is much more doable than MacOS or Win. 4/ Using Linux allows for a different approach to working with hardware, if you are interested in using hardware to give a tactile interface to your music making then some approaches are more flexible using Linux, again Max does not run on Linux. Well, you can interface all kinds of hardware with Win and Mac. And sometimes even more easily (Just yesterday I spent 2.5 hours to get wacom Bamboo working with linux but it comes with Win and Mac drivers out of the box). I have just a general comment about this Max -vs- Pd thing. They both have shortcomings, just a different set of them. Pros and cons of both systems are too long to describe and often they amount to personal preferences. But those differences become apparent only after you have spent some time with both and are experienced enough to require some specific features/behaviours etc. I dropped Max in the late 90s in favour of Pd. Now, some of my professional activities require me to program with Max. I sometimes get frustrated that Max does not work the way Pd does. But then, I sometimes get frustrated that pd does not do something else the way Max does (I really wish I could type \ character into pd! Well, yes I can with [str to_symbol] by sending it [92( but that's not exactly user-friendly. And I am beginning to like the presentation mode of Max in spite of it being so un-pd). With pretty GUI in Max you sacrifice performance (I cannot find the reference now but there was a post on the cycling74 forum and a bunch of people benchmarked Max 4.6 and Max 5 on different machines. Max 4.6's performance was superior according to the results). But how relevant it is to someone who is just learning? That also doesn't prevent hundreds (thousands?) of Max users to build stuff, perform etc. You learn one, chances are you will likely stick to it in the future because although they use the same paradigm they do not work exactly the same. Once you learn a bag of tricks for one it is difficult to transpose that to the other without actually learning the new paradigm in some depth. If you have the luxury of time and energy, by all means learn both, it will not hurt. Essentially you can accomplish the same work with both but certainly by different means. ./MiS ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at wrote: From: Hans-Christoph Steiner h...@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD To: Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com Cc: Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca, pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 11:46 PM On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 09:46 -0700, Jonathan Wilkes wrote: --- On Mon, 9/13/10, Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca wrote: From: Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD To: Frank Barknecht f...@footils.org Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 5:19 PM On Mon, 13 Sep 2010, Frank Barknecht wrote: Oh, and instead of [transport] just use a metro with a counter sending to some global receiver. Read from this with [select] to get a kind of Max-5's [timepoint] clone. See, there's no magic behind these new Max 5 features, they just unified a bit what all Max/Pd users do anyway in their patches. It's also that it's more marketable if they add rather trivial features just so that they can say «Max 5 has more features about time scale !». It's easier than to explain to them that Max doesn't need those features. Better object documentation in Pd is a trivial feature in this sense-- it's easier for you to spend your time documenting GF objects than to explain how to read the source code. (See, there's no magic behind those GF objects!) Also, it's more marketable if Max has an object like [textedit] where the user can type multi-line text into a box. It's easier than picking through the Toxy graveyard and learning that you can't send messages to the widget unless its containing canvas is visible, then trying to work with [entry] and having the data you typed in the box disappear because you minimized the window. Then realizing that the whole reason you're looking for an object that corresponds to [textedit] is because you can't resize message boxes (and they don't appear on a gop canvas). -Jonathan You could try tkwidgets/text. I really should finish that library. Its close to done, and it'll probably a suite of nice GUI objects, including something like textedit. .hc That sounds cool. Hm, I was reading through the sourcerepositories page on puredata.info, and I'm not sure how I'd go about trying those objects out. Do I need to compile pd-extended from svn, or is there a way to just compile that library and use it with the nightly build? (I tried make in tkwidgets/ but got the no rule to make target error.) -Jonathan ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
--- On Sat, 9/11/10, Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com wrote: From: Simon Wise simonzw...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Saturday, September 11, 2010, 5:15 AM On 11/09/10 08:05, jm jones wrote: I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. 1/ If you need *extremely* low latency, and are prepared to put in the effort required to tweak and maintain your system carefully, then you can get lower latency on a Linux system, Max does not run on Linux. 2/ If you are interested in running your music from small embedded systems, or in installations in galleries and so forth, or using rjdj or similar in mobile devices, then Linux has many advantages, again Max does not run on Linux. 3/ One of the original motivations for pd was the data-structures stuff, and what it could do in algorithmic music. This area is a bit more complicated than some of the other stuff in Pd, but really very interesting in many ways. I understand it is quite different to what is available in Max, but I don't use Max so I'm not sure. What's the connection between data structures and algorithmic music? 4/ Using Linux allows for a different approach to working with hardware, if you are interested in using hardware to give a tactile interface to your music making then some approaches are more flexible using Linux, again Max does not run on Linux. Max is prettier and with more GUI, but is really more easy to learn? Perhaps it is a bit easier to 'discover' things by just clicking around the menus etc, but this is really only a small initial advantage, and good advertising. In any case real usage will require a similar learning curve after those initial stages, because most of what needs to be learnt is how to use a Graphical Dataflow Language to make music. It's more than a small initial advantage, especially if the corresponding GUI object in Pd is buggy, or non-existent. ( Max's [textedit] vs. Pd's [entry], for example. ) And real usage to make music includes using GUI objects, no? Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? Pd has lots available, probably Max does too, maybe the fact that Pd is open source means that you, or someone else, can adapt internals a bit to your needs, or make externals that are more integrated with the internals, but that depends on your programming skills and interests, i.e. do you want to do some of your work in C? Maybe Max has a bigger user base, but maybe the FLOSS nature of Pd makes the sharing more open? I don't Know much about the Max community, so a comparison is not possible for me. Simon ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
which pd forum are you talking about ? +1 José 2010/9/10 Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca On Fri, 10 Sep 2010, jm jones wrote: Max forums seems more active than the pd, I hope this list is more active : ) which pd forum are you talking about ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard -- Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
Jose Luis Santorcuato schreef: which pd forum are you talking about ? +1 Probably this one: http://puredata.hurleur.com/ m ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
This is certainly news, well I write to the list, is a good place to share and ask ... Welcome and good luck! Bienvenido! José 2010/9/12 mik mpr...@skynet.be Jose Luis Santorcuato schreef: which pd forum are you talking about ? +1 Probably this one: http://puredata.hurleur.com/ m ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
Hahahaha, ok... was for Jones... Anyway you can find material on the website of Miller, I think there are also a couple of books probably in torrents. Cyrille papers are good and the Hangar, also Mathieu, jobs Gem introductory course are not music, but will open doors. I leave you greetings and hope you feel comfortable. José 2010/9/10 jm jones juan...@gmail.com Hi, Im learning PD-Max/msp. Im trying both, and seems that learning one helps learn the other. I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. Max is prettier and with more GUI, but is really more easy to learn? Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? Max forums seems more active than the pd, I hope this list is more active : ) Besides that, congrats to all the pd developers, its really great to have this awesome free soft. Cheers from Patagonia, Argentina. -- Juan Manuel Jones ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- http://arselectronicachile.blogspot.com http://www.myspace.com/santorcuato ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
2010/9/11 Marco Donnarumma de...@thesaddj.com: Hi Juan, regarding resources, please find here my personal collection of Pd on-line resources: http://www.delicious.com/MarcoD2/bundle:PureData The right sidebar shows all Pd tags. Hope that helps, Best, Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net Thanks for the links and the feedback. These days Im playing a lot with PD I like it. One new thing in Max 5 is traditional musical time values, and new transport capabilities. Is something like that available in PD (working without milliseconds as measure)? Maybe it can be done in a simple way in pd, but Im a noob in this, so I want to know the big differences. Max is very polished, but in 3 days I discover a lot of cools things about pd. The community seems great, but this is not surprise, after all I'm in a LUG from about six years ago. Gracias Jose por la bienvenida! -- Juan Manuel Jones ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
Hi Juan, regarding resources, please find here my personal collection of Pd on-line resources: http://www.delicious.com/MarcoD2/bundle:PureData The right sidebar shows all Pd tags. Hope that helps, Best, Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On 11 Sep 2010, at 12:00, Juan Manuel Jones wrote: I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. Max is prettier and with more GUI, but is really more easy to learn? Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? i think both Max/MSP and Pd are similar in terms of how much you have to bend your brain to understand the dataflow paradigm. in other words, they're essentially the same system, just with different clothes. the Max GUI is much better than the Pd GUI, from the perspective of usability and polish (not surprising since as a commercial company Cycling74 can afford to employ people to work on the GUI full time i guess). that aside, if you want to get into the guts of things, I'd go with Pd. the community is very helpful. also the tutorials that come with Pd are superb, if you're patient enough to go through them all a couple of times (i'm talking about Help-Browser-2.control.examples and 3.audio.examples). agree with you that the manual is a bit heavy. i haven't used Max extensively but coming from Pd i find it frustrating sometimes -- it seems to be less consistent that Pd, seems to crash in more random places, and it seems like it's more work to make modular re-usable systems with it. hth d -- damian stewart . @damiannz . dam...@frey.co.nz frey . contemporary art . http://www.frey.co.nz ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
Hi, Im learning PD-Max/msp. Im trying both, and seems that learning one helps learn the other. I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. Max is prettier and with more GUI, but is really more easy to learn? Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? Max forums seems more active than the pd, I hope this list is more active : ) Besides that, congrats to all the pd developers, its really great to have this awesome free soft. Cheers from Patagonia, Argentina. -- Juan Manuel Jones ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On Fri, 10 Sep 2010, jm jones wrote: Max forums seems more active than the pd, I hope this list is more active : ) which pd forum are you talking about ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard -- Villeray, Montréal, QC___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
you can also join the #dataflow channel on the IRC network @ irc.freenode.net, to talk realtime. you have a lot of resources for pd. for instance at puredata.info, but also others around the web. 2010/9/10 Mathieu Bouchard ma...@artengine.ca On Fri, 10 Sep 2010, jm jones wrote: Max forums seems more active than the pd, I hope this list is more active : ) which pd forum are you talking about ? ___ | Mathieu Bouchard -- Villeray, Montréal, QC ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Fagote / Contrafagote Bassoon / Contra-bassoon http://myspace.com/ricardolameiro ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
you can also join the #dataflow channel on the IRC network @ irc.freenode.net, to talk realtime. you have a lot of resources for pd. for instance at puredata.info, but also others around the web. 2010/9/10 jm jones juan...@gmail.com Hi, Im learning PD-Max/msp. Im trying both, and seems that learning one helps learn the other. I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. Max is prettier and with more GUI, but is really more easy to learn? Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? Max forums seems more active than the pd, I hope this list is more active : ) Besides that, congrats to all the pd developers, its really great to have this awesome free soft. Cheers from Patagonia, Argentina. -- Juan Manuel Jones ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list -- Fagote / Contrafagote Bassoon / Contra-bassoon http://myspace.com/ricardolameiro ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
2010/9/10 Ricardo Lameiro ricardolame...@gmail.com you can also join the #dataflow channel on the IRC network @ irc.freenode.net, to talk realtime. you have a lot of resources for pd. for instance at puredata.info, but also others around the web. Thanks for the answers. Im reading loadbang and I find it very helpful (M.S.P book seems awesome, but for a noob a little complex) What about the other questions? I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. Max is prettier and with more GUI, but is really more easy to learn? Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? -- Juan Manuel Jones ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, new user. Question about max/msp and PD
On 11/09/10 08:05, jm jones wrote: I like the free-software nature of PD, but besides that, I want to know the pros and cons of the two environments. 1/ If you need *extremely* low latency, and are prepared to put in the effort required to tweak and maintain your system carefully, then you can get lower latency on a Linux system, Max does not run on Linux. 2/ If you are interested in running your music from small embedded systems, or in installations in galleries and so forth, or using rjdj or similar in mobile devices, then Linux has many advantages, again Max does not run on Linux. 3/ One of the original motivations for pd was the data-structures stuff, and what it could do in algorithmic music. This area is a bit more complicated than some of the other stuff in Pd, but really very interesting in many ways. I understand it is quite different to what is available in Max, but I don't use Max so I'm not sure. 4/ Using Linux allows for a different approach to working with hardware, if you are interested in using hardware to give a tactile interface to your music making then some approaches are more flexible using Linux, again Max does not run on Linux. Max is prettier and with more GUI, but is really more easy to learn? Perhaps it is a bit easier to 'discover' things by just clicking around the menus etc, but this is really only a small initial advantage, and good advertising. In any case real usage will require a similar learning curve after those initial stages, because most of what needs to be learnt is how to use a Graphical Dataflow Language to make music. Im not interested in video, only music and sound. What about resources (patches, objets, etc)? Pd has lots available, probably Max does too, maybe the fact that Pd is open source means that you, or someone else, can adapt internals a bit to your needs, or make externals that are more integrated with the internals, but that depends on your programming skills and interests, i.e. do you want to do some of your work in C? Maybe Max has a bigger user base, but maybe the FLOSS nature of Pd makes the sharing more open? I don't Know much about the Max community, so a comparison is not possible for me. Simon ___ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Re: [PD] Hi, a question about compiling pd external for windows
Hallo! I sent your message also to the pd list, where more people can answer your question ... (you have to subscribe to the list) I saw in your website that you compiled an external for pd as a dll for windows can I ask how did you do it? I have problems with this issue , I have all these missing links... What is your problem ? And what do you try to compile ? LG Georg ___ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management - http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
