Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd version 0.52-0test3 released

[Dan Wilcox]

A "damaged" app bundle usually indicates something is missing or misnamed 
internally. It can also indicate a signing error.

I tried making an updated universal build with JACK but the resulting bundle 
doesn't run even on my own machine, so something is wrong with the build or the 
script which assembles the Pd .app. I will look at this.

Also, in my opinion and I know I've suggested this before, builds for newer 
systems should be linked to the newer version of JACK buy default ala:

./configure --disable-jack-framework --enable-jack

This requires having the JACK distribution pre-compiled libs installed.

> On Dec 8, 2021, at 3:16 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2021 09:15:10 -0500
> From: William Brent mailto:william.br...@gmail.com>>
> To: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> Cc: pd-annou...@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-annou...@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce]   Pd version 0.52-0test3 released
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CAGukSDNWgFb7S0apD=XTLGOnrTWNTG_8njB0phNq=cqlyn9...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Unfortunately, that build is showing up as "damaged" for my students on Mac
> OS Mojave and Big Sur, only offering the option of moving it to the trash
> (see the attached screenshot). Even the usual route of doing a
> right-click/open on the app leads to the same message, and in the Mac OS
> security preferences it never offers the option to approve opening the app.
> I can get them to successfully launch it from the command line by having
> them navigate to the pd binary in the app bundle though. Or of course, just
> build from source themselves. Not sure how important this is to others but
> I'm doing a lot of work with JACK in my classes and nearly all of my
> students are on Mac OS.
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 7:40 PM Miller Puckette  <mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>> wrote:
> 
>> Dan Wilcox has a build againset the new Jack:
>> 
>> http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.52-0-universal-jack.zip 
>> <http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.52-0-universal-jack.zip>
>> 
>> (I think I need to include that in the (growing) list of compiled versions
>> on my site, hmm...)
>> 
>> cheers
>> Miller


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] 0.52.0test2: window jitter on (Mac OS)

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy Phil,

this may be related to a reported GOP performance problem with test2, so I 
copied your report to the issue on Github:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1488 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1488>

> On Dec 4, 2021, at 6:40 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2021 21:51:19 +
> From: Philip Stone mailto:pkst...@ucdavis.edu>>
> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>" 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] 0.52.0test2: window jitter on (Mac OS)
> Message-ID:
>   
>   
> <mailto:by5pr08mb642387d9f7a5dfa96fb21c03a7...@by5pr08mb6423.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>>
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> I?ve just noticed a minor weird thing with v 0.52.0test2: graph on parent 
> windows with margins of 0 or 1 cause a visual flutter when hovering over a 
> graphic object inside the (opened) GOP. I?m on Mac OS 10.15.7.
> 
> Simple example:
> 
> #N canvas 47 74 357 100 12;
> #N canvas 308 115 516 183 open_me 0;
> #X obj 84 4 bng 15 250 50 0 empty empty empty 17 7 0 10 #fcfcfc #00
> #00;
> #X text 110 2 <- hover over/off of bang;
> #X coords 0 -1 1 1 100 20 1 1 1;
> #X restore 130 37 pd open_me;
> 
> Increasing the border to at least 2 X 2 eliminates the jitter.
> 
> Not of critical importance, but long ago I got into the habit of having a 0/0 
> margin for GOPs (don?t know why).
> 
> 
> Phil Stone
> Davis, CA  USA


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] deken hiding non-newest versions of each library (Re: Pd 0.52 test 2 is out)

[Dan Wilcox]

Maybe it should...

> On Nov 28, 2021, at 11:23 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 23:23:53 +0100
> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] deken hiding non-newest versions of each library
>   (Re: Pd 0.52 test 2 is out)
> Message-ID: <1ed635fb-68b0-aec8-df9f-b3602aa89...@christofressi.com 
> <mailto:1ed635fb-68b0-aec8-df9f-b3602aa89...@christofressi.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> "-noprefs" only works for the Pd core preferences, but *not* for the Pd 
> GUI preferences.
> 
> On 28.11.2021 23:20, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
>> 
>> Cool. Even better:
>> 
>> ./pd -noprefs


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out

[Dan Wilcox]

My 2 cents:

From a beginners perspective, limiting to the latest (stable) release makes 
sense as a long list of various versions and tests with only some number and 
date in a small font / embedded in the file name to differentiate them could be 
very confusing. Perhaps there is a good middle ground where the option can be 
enabled by default but the latest, say 2-3 releases are listed with "stable" 
and "test" better marked? Or perhaps this is the new default behavior and the 
checkbox is reversed as in it becomes "Show all versions of a library"?

Don't forget that just because you get used to something, doesn't mean that's 
the best approach or that's the way it has to stay. I recall a few people on 
this list making that point about certain aspects of the GUI... :)

> On Nov 28, 2021, at 4:05 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 16:05:50 +0100
> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out
> Message-ID: <2ec67a1d-1b01-98d2-d1dd-247d33d93...@christofressi.com 
> <mailto:2ec67a1d-1b01-98d2-d1dd-247d33d93...@christofressi.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
>> I think this kind of unwarned change can be really confusing, see my 
>> case here :) it's a cool option, but maybe not checked by default?
> I also think that the option should be off by default. For example, 
> let's say there is a stable "vstplugin~-0.5.2" package on Deken. Now, if 
> I upload "vstplugin~-0.6-test" Deken would only show that and would hide 
> the stable release...
> 
> Or should we rather stop uploading test releases to Deken?
> 
> Christof


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

My feeling on this is:

1. Recognize that, despite using "private" or "unstable" internal APIs, people 
have been using/abusing them for years. (So far, I feel we have been 
recognizing this by being careful not to break things, more or less.)

2. We should document all internal messaging, at least for the sake of 
developer documentation. If we lump "user space" and "internal" messaging 
together in an open manual, then they should be clearly delineated with special 
placed on emphasizing what things are more or less stable and what things are 
not. Then the user can decide how they want to proceed. I don't see a problem 
if people want to play with the internals on their own machine and crash Pd... 
that's half the fun for such activities anyway (learning).

3. We should get a poll of which internal messages are currently in use and 
consider which of these could be moved into "user space" and/or replaced by a 
better API. I believe this thread is already providing a good list...

4. Open a technical discussion on supporting "dynamic patching" officially. 
It's clearly very useful even if clunky through the current workarounds. Even 
with [clone] there are still many use cases...

> On Nov 28, 2021, at 12:25 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 20:20:49 +0100
> From: Jean-Yves Gratius mailto:j...@gumo.fr>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching
> Message-ID:  <mailto:f41bab20-e831-3f04-52fb-ba273b1e0...@gumo.fr>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 27/11/2021 17:19, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> ForwardedMessage.eml
>> 
>> Subject:
>> Re: [PD] documenting messages to/from Pd and dynamic patching
>> From:
>> Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
>> Date:
>> 27/11/2021 ? 17:01
>> 
>> To:
>> Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>> 
>> 
>> Two examples that come to my mind:
>> 
>> 1) [iemguts/canvasselect] allows to (de)select objects simply by 
>> index. No need to emulate mouse selection with "mouse" and "mouseup".
>> 
>> 2) canvases/objects can be moved around with [iemguts/canvasposition] 
>> resp. [iemguts/canvasobjectposition]
>> 
>> Are there any other use cases for "mouse" and "mouseup"?
>> 
> Hi. My 2 cents
> 
> Personally, I use mouse and mouseup messages to forward multitouch 
> events into the patch, received? from my multitouch linux laptop.
> 
> If those messages were blocked, all my multitouch ecosystem would be out 
> of order :-) .


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out

[Dan Wilcox]

## Inactive Patch Coords

I think it should be on by default as I imagine more people could use it but it 
should have a disable option somehow for those that don't. I might be wrong in 
thinking that they are a minority though. Maybe there could be some sort of 
experimental feature commanding flag that accepts strings ala:

pd -exp disable-inactive-patchcords

Internally, then new versions of Pd could update the matched strings and ignore 
those which are either removed or upgraded to non-experimental status in new 
versions.

## Single-Select Drag & Resize Paper Cut

Also, here is a "paper-cut" bug fix that might be good to check out. I updated 
the original PR in a new branch and did some testing. The behavior appears to 
work fine and is an improvement, although I would admit to not having noticed 
before. ;)

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1484 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/1484>

> On Nov 27, 2021, at 11:36 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> 
> ... I'm thinking now to leave it in but have it turned off by default -
> that way it would be easy to add as a preference later.
> 
> M
> 
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2021 at 09:53:09PM +0100, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> Oh and I forgot:
>> 
>> # Active Patch Cable Highlight
>> 
>> I think greying out the active patch cable is great. I agree with calls for 
>> making this an option (on or off) in the GUI, but maybe this is something 
>> best added to IOhannes' current work on updating the (tabbed) preferences?
>> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out

[Dan Wilcox]

Oh and I forgot:

# Active Patch Cable Highlight

I think greying out the active patch cable is great. I agree with calls for 
making this an option (on or off) in the GUI, but maybe this is something best 
added to IOhannes' current work on updating the (tabbed) preferences?

> On Nov 24, 2021, at 9:50 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> Howdy MIller,
> 
> Just a couple notes after checking the test2 build:
> 
> On my macOS 11.6.1 system, the test2 build with Tk 8.6.12 seems to work fine, 
> generally. Wheew! *wipes brow* The list atom and individual element editing 
> is great. I like the [file] implementation: light wrapper on the POSIX api.
> 
> # Help Browser
> 
> The right-most pane seems to have an update/refresh issue. It flashes to the 
> background before redrawing and disappears if you navigate with the keys in 
> one of the left-hand panes. I can look into this.
> 
> Also, I found that certain keybindings generate errors (not no TCL crashes), 
> ex. undo.redo CMD+Z, etc.
> 
> # gatoms
> 
> Has the selection behavior changed? I see the gatom which receives the 
> current focus now highlights but defocus seems to be inconsistent, at least 
> to me. I would think that clicking into the atom, editing with the keyboard, 
> then pressing enter or escape would defocus, but it doesn't. Is this new 
> behavior? This also makes the behavior different form that of the IEM GUIs.
> 
> Also, it seems the focus highlight will stay if you double click to edit an 
> atom which highlights the text, then click on another atom.
> 
> # Keybindings
> 
> I also agree that MOD+4 should remain as symbol atom and list atom can use 
> MOD+6. I imagine the reasoning is that list atom can work with symbols so 
> it's a decent replacement anyway, but I think this works against established 
> muscle memory for some of us. OTOH I changed the HRadio keybinding from MOD+H 
> to MOD+J so it could consistent on all platforms and we survived (CMD+H on 
> macOS hides the window and is not overridable, oops!)...
> 
>> On Nov 23, 2021, at 7:27 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 14:06:02 -0300
>> From: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
>> To: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
>> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy MIller,

Just a couple notes after checking the test2 build:

On my macOS 11.6.1 system, the test2 build with Tk 8.6.12 seems to work fine, 
generally. Wheew! *wipes brow* The list atom and individual element editing is 
great. I like the [file] implementation: light wrapper on the POSIX api.

# Help Browser

The right-most pane seems to have an update/refresh issue. It flashes to the 
background before redrawing and disappears if you navigate with the keys in one 
of the left-hand panes. I can look into this.

Also, I found that certain keybindings generate errors (not no TCL crashes), 
ex. undo.redo CMD+Z, etc.

# gatoms

Has the selection behavior changed? I see the gatom which receives the current 
focus now highlights but defocus seems to be inconsistent, at least to me. I 
would think that clicking into the atom, editing with the keyboard, then 
pressing enter or escape would defocus, but it doesn't. Is this new behavior? 
This also makes the behavior different form that of the IEM GUIs.

Also, it seems the focus highlight will stay if you double click to edit an 
atom which highlights the text, then click on another atom.

# Keybindings

I also agree that MOD+4 should remain as symbol atom and list atom can use 
MOD+6. I imagine the reasoning is that list atom can work with symbols so it's 
a decent replacement anyway, but I think this works against established muscle 
memory for some of us. OTOH I changed the HRadio keybinding from MOD+H to MOD+J 
so it could consistent on all platforms and we survived (CMD+H on macOS hides 
the window and is not overridable, oops!)...

> On Nov 23, 2021, at 7:27 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 14:06:02 -0300
> From: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> To: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd 0.52 test 2 is out


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 200, Issue 47

[Dan Wilcox]

+1

Also, here's another point for how important non-development contributions are 
to the community in general.

> On Nov 22, 2021, at 9:43 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:20:18 -0800
> From: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> To: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pure Data FLOSS Manual has been renamed to
>   Pd-extended FLOSS Manual (was Re: mickfuzz's Pure Data FLOSS Manual, a
>   message on behalf of Pd's community)
> Message-ID: mailto:yzv7grio2m0nl...@ucsd.edu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Thanks for this - I think lots of people were getting confused, thinking
> Pd extended was Pd and then concluding the whole thing was unmaintained.
> 
> cheers
> Miller


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] Pd-0.52-0 macOS universal build (prerelease)

[Dan Wilcox]

This is because it's using the older TK 8.6.10 which is used in 0.51-4. 
However, it has a number of GUI issues which are fixed in 8.6.12... 

> On Nov 11, 2021, at 1:53 AM, Philip Stone  wrote:
> 
> This build not only fixes the soundfiler read issue, it also does not exhibit 
> the ‘stuck flash’ behavior for buttons, messages, etc.

----
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] Pd-0.52-0 macOS universal build (prerelease)

[Dan Wilcox]

Yes, this is a bug. I formalized the ascii handling to use the .txt file 
extension by default so you can pass a .txt file and it will be read as ascii 
without requiring the -ascii flag. Same with writing.

The issue here is that the -ascii flag should *always* force reading ascii 
(unless overridden by -raw) but the .txt extension check was still taking 
place, so your .tab file was being reject since it wasn't a .txt.

In any case, it's a one line fix and it's good you checked and found this.

Can you test your setup with this quick build which has the fix?

Pd-0.52.0-ascii-readfix.zip 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.52.0-ascii-readfix.zip>

Note: This is a mismatch build as it has the old x86_64 only Tk 8.6.10 from Pd 
0.51-4 with a 0.52-0 universal core. This shouldn't keep it form running for 
testing but probably not good to keep around for the long term. It was quicker 
to turn this out right now then do a more up to date version as I'm mucking 
with the build system here.

> On Nov 11, 2021, at 12:28 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> Can you send a copy of the file and maybe a patch that simply loads it into 
> the table?
> 
>> On Nov 11, 2021, at 12:09 AM, Philip Stone > <mailto:pkst...@ucdavis.edu>> wrote:
>> 
>> It’s a text file, loaded using [read -ascii -resize $1 TUNING_TAB] passed to 
>> soundfiler. Pretty old code, so there’s probably a better way of handling 
>> it, but I only noticed it because it broke.
>>  
>> Pd 0.52-0 includes the sound file handling update I did which overhauled a 
>> number of things and added support for full AIFF headers and CAF files. The 
>> file type can't be detected from the file extension, so it tries to figure 
>> out from the header bytes but failed with the error.
>>  
>> Thanks, Dan. I’ll get more chance to test later.
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd-0.52-0 macOS universal build (prerelease)

[Dan Wilcox]

Can you send a copy of the file and maybe a patch that simply loads it into the 
table?

> On Nov 11, 2021, at 12:09 AM, Philip Stone  wrote:
> 
> It’s a text file, loaded using [read -ascii -resize $1 TUNING_TAB] passed to 
> soundfiler. Pretty old code, so there’s probably a better way of handling it, 
> but I only noticed it because it broke.
>  
> Pd 0.52-0 includes the sound file handling update I did which overhauled a 
> number of things and added support for full AIFF headers and CAF files. The 
> file type can't be detected from the file extension, so it tries to figure 
> out from the header bytes but failed with the error.
>  
> Thanks, Dan. I’ll get more chance to test later.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Pd-0.52-0 macOS universal build (prerelease)

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Nov 10, 2021, at 11:25 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 15:58:40 +
> From: Philip Stone mailto:pkst...@ucdavis.edu>>
> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>" 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-0.52-0 macOS universal build (prerelease)
> Message-ID:
>   
>   
> <mailto:by5pr08mb642374ed923724dc5f688720a7...@by5pr08mb6423.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>>
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> Hi Dan,
> 
> This is very much appreciated!
> 
> I?m on Catalina (10.15.7). My patches seem to load mostly correctly, but one 
> thing I notice immediately is that any object that flashes when you click it, 
> like buttons or message boxes, stay stuck in the ?flash? color when clicked.

I remember seeing this with 10.14 and Pd 0.51-4. I skipped 10.15 and ad do not 
see this issue with Pd 0.51-4 or Pd 0.52-0 prelim builds on macOS 11.6.1.

> I?m also getting this error, which doesn?t happen with Pd 0.51.4:
> 
> soundfiler read: ~/Documents/PD/PD_Patches/Scales/11-31.scl.tab: unknown 
> header format
> 
> I haven?t gotten as far as making sound yet, perhaps due to this error.

What is the file format? Is it some custom raw format or a renamed WAVE, etc?

Pd 0.52-0 includes the sound file handling update I did which overhauled a 
number of things and added support for full AIFF headers and CAF files. The 
file type can't be detected from the file extension, so it tries to figure out 
from the header bytes but failed with the error.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd-0.52-0 macOS universal build (prerelease)

[Dan Wilcox]

Here is a universal build linked to the current JACK 1.9.19 release:

Pd-0.52-0-universal-jack.zip 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.52-0-universal-jack.zip>

This is *not* the older weak jack linking for JackOSX (dead) and the app is 
only signed, not notarized, so the usual "right-click, open" dance applies.

I am fighting the notarization process, otherwise I'd have a nicely notarized 
app with my dev account which doesn't complain on first run.

> On Nov 10, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> ...
> 
> cool and thanks.
> 
> mfgasdr
> IOhannes
> 
> PS: so now we would want a build that also includes JACK :-)


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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[PD] Pd-0.52-0 macOS universal build (prerelease)

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

here is a universal (x86_64, arm64) build of Pd 0.52-0 for testing:

Pd-0.52-0-universal.zip 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.52-0-universal.zip>

This build includes Tk 8.6.12 which fixes a number of GUI bugs and should 
support new macOS 12 systems. My build system is 11.6.1, so it's likely that 
this will only run on systems back to maybe macOS 10.9 or 10.10.

--------
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] readsf~ help question

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Nov 6, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Hi, I don't really get the optional arguments to the open message (after
> the filename)

Onset is basically where to start playing but counted in samples from the 
beginning. If you know the sample rate of the file, you can calculate the onset 
for a given time, say 1 second in and start paying for there.

The rest are sound file header overrides to force how the format of the file in 
interpreted, ie. you can force readsf~ to play a stereo file in mono for 
instance or if you have some sort of raw output which is missing some encoding 
you can force the format, etc. Those values are similar to the sound filer -raw 
flag values.

> and I don't understand how the mono file input (bell.aif) can
> output 4 channels of audio!

It doesn't... there are 4 output channels from the object but only the first 
shows a change in envelope when you play it. The rest output 0 as the file is 
only mono. This just means the the object is created to play *up to* 4 channel 
files but that of course depends on the files it gets.

----
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd without internationalization?

[Dan Wilcox]

Yes, it's on my list (and IOhannes' as well). It would most likely be something 
that you change, then have to restart Pd, but that would still be better than 
editing the distribution or run scripts. I would imagine the setting would be 
"system locale", then choosing for the list of languages available to force one.

> On Oct 13, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 12:00:57 +0200
> From: "Peter P." mailto:peterpar...@fastmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd without internationalization?
> Message-ID: <20211012100057.5o2w2yr35rvdb...@fastmail.com 
> <mailto:20211012100057.5o2w2yr35rvdb...@fastmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> * Dan Wilcox mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>> [2021-10-12 
> 11:54]:
> [...]
>> Quicker, but perhaps a worse user experience, especially when they update.
> Good point! But still it would require distributing the script everytime
> Pd is newly installed on a computer. Thanks for your detailed
> description on how to do it. I think the best thing would be a
> preference setting, as IOhannes pointed out.
> 
> cheers, P


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd without internationalization?

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Oct 12, 2021, at 11:15 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
> 
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2021 11:14:50 +0200
> From: "Peter P." mailto:peterpar...@fastmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd without internationalization?
> Message-ID: <20211012091450.wjpam6vxgxz3u...@fastmail.com 
> <mailto:20211012091450.wjpam6vxgxz3u...@fastmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> * Dan Wilcox mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>> [2021-10-12 
> 11:06]:
> [...]
>>> Thanks! Whenever I am teaching people entirely new to Pd, who often have
>>> their OSes set to different languages, the different menu entries cause
>>> puzzled faces.
>> 
>> Ha and the opposite is also true, especially in non-English teaching 
>> environments. Just goes to show there is no optimal choice ex pet providing 
>> more choice, I suppose.
> Thanks for reminding us Dan! It makes me wonder how much english users
> need to know to use Pd. After all the object names, help patches, etc.
> is all english.

There is some discussion on how to add support for loading localized help 
patches for instance.

https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/3 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/3>

One thing to standardize, for instance, would be certain terms such as "array", 
"symbol", "number", "bang" etc as Pd-specific technical terms. I think this 
would help across languages when teaching.

> [...]
>> The current system integrates with the system locale setting so the idea is 
>> whatever the user is already using is also picked up by Pd. For most apps 
>> this is preferred. For some reason, it never seems to be good for most 
>> people in Pd land, possibly since the translations have not always been 
>> fully covered, etc.
>> 
>> In any case, you can currently set the locale when starting Pd on the 
>> commandline over via start script or Windows batch file. See the info in the 
>> po/README.txt:
>> 
>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/po/README.txt#L44 
>> <https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/po/README.txt#L44><https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/po/README.txt#L44
>>  <https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/po/README.txt#L44>>
>> 
>> This does not require editing the installed Pd folder structure and you can 
>> simply provide a set of scripts the students can double-click to force the 
>> en locale.
> Thanks for pointing this out to me! For now it is quicker to have them
> delete the po folder rather than having to package Pd for three OSes
> with a custom script or asking them to modify one.

Quicker, but perhaps a worse user experience, especially when they update.

No modification of the Pd package or .app bundle is required. Just have a 
script they can place on their system and run, that's it. 

For macOS, the script just needs to find the latest Pd in the /Applications 
folder or wherever the .app bundles are placed. For Windows, the .bat file can 
simply be added to the Pd folder and double-clicked. For Linux, a start script 
can be placed anywhere since it calls "pd" on the command line.

The install process would be:

1. Go to pure-data.info <http://pure-data.info/> and download the latest vanilla
2. Download a .zip from my class website which has a script for macOS, a script 
for Linux, and a batch file for Windows
3. Place the script/batch file in the needed location
4. Double-click to run in English

Repeat steps 1 (& 3 for windows) when upgrading. I see "add an extra script" 
more positive than "delete the translation files in the distribution." :)

Here is a zip with some basic scripts I whipped up you can try: startpd_en.zip 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/other/startpd_en.zip> (Not fully tested on 
all platforms.)


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd without internationalization?

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Oct 11, 2021, at 10:51 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 22:51:31 +0200
> From: "Peter P." mailto:peterpar...@fastmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd without internationalization?
> Message-ID: <20211011205131.xtl6tqydubbll...@fastmail.com 
> <mailto:20211011205131.xtl6tqydubbll...@fastmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> * IOhannes m zm?lnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>> [2021-10-11 
> 18:23]:
>> Am 11. Oktober 2021 16:31:47 MESZ schrieb "Peter P." 
>> mailto:peterpar...@fastmail.com>>:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> can I just remove all .msg translation files from Pd's po/ folder and
>>> to have it only use english on both OS X and Windows?
>> 
>> Yes. (or just remove the entire po/ folder)
> Thanks! Whenever I am teaching people entirely new to Pd, who often have
> their OSes set to different languages, the different menu entries cause
> puzzled faces.

Ha and the opposite is also true, especially in non-English teaching 
environments. Just goes to show there is no optimal choice ex pet providing 
more choice, I suppose.

>> Btw, on Debian you can just not-install (or uninstall) the puredata-gui-I10n 
>> package.
>> 
>> 
>> I was thinking about adding a GUI-preference that would allow you to disable 
>> i10n and/or pick another language.
>> 
>> It's not high on my priority list though, and I (think I) never came around 
>> actually implementing it...
> Here you have an exemplary case and someone who would be very happy to see
> such a feature implemented.

The current system integrates with the system locale setting so the idea is 
whatever the user is already using is also picked up by Pd. For most apps this 
is preferred. For some reason, it never seems to be good for most people in Pd 
land, possibly since the translations have not always been fully covered, etc.

In any case, you can currently set the locale when starting Pd on the 
commandline over via start script or Windows batch file. See the info in the 
po/README.txt:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/po/README.txt#L44 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/po/README.txt#L44>

This does not require editing the installed Pd folder structure and you can 
simply provide a set of scripts the students can double-click to force the en 
locale.

Further down in the readme is info on how to edit the current translations. If 
any of your students are interested, I'd encourage them to help fix 
translations which need some work. :)


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd in cross-platform frameworks

[Dan Wilcox]

One of my goals for libpd is to implement a GUI communication abstraction 
layer, similar too and possibly building upon the work done for Purr Data's 
GUI. The end result would you could implement platform or framework-specific 
drawing but the main logic stays in "Pd land" so you don't have to recreate the 
widgets themselves as we've done in PdDroiudParty/PdParty. You'd only need to 
handle "draw rectangle here" etc. This would be similar to how libpd already 
gives you message and MIDI handling.

When I can get to doing this for real is another question, largely depending on 
resources and time.

> On Oct 9, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2021 08:55:47 -0700
> From: Daniel Iglesia  <mailto:daniel.igle...@gmail.com>>
> To: "hans w. koch" mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-list mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd in cross-platform frameworks
> Message-ID:
><mailto:canz10w24ddk6o9cnr3gzv5o46s84drvmhhfpdakm7smwomy...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I use Flutter for my day job, which I highly prefer to native iOS and
> Android development.
> 
> (If I ever have the time and energy, I am considering rewriting MobMuPlat
> in Flutter, which would unite 4 separate implementations (iOS, Android,
> Java Swing for desktop, MacOs) into a single implementation.)
> 
> While a Flutter GUI (and other layers of the app, e.g. data layer,
> controllers, etc) is cross-platform, you will still need to have a 'native'
> layer for iOS and Android in order to handle libpd integration and its
> interaction with per-platform audio APIs. But that would operate the same
> as existing iOS and Android native apps which use libpd; you would merely
> add a 'plugin' wrapper (i.e. a Dart library which translates app logic into
> calls to the native layer).


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Fwd: random routing of 8 audio-streams to 8 outputs

[Dan Wilcox]

I do this using throw~ and catch~ where the mapping happens in an abstraction 
within a clone object. I've used this heavily for spatialized projects at work 
up for up to 64 channels.

Here is a simple solution using Han's c_urn suggestion to do the random number 
generation:

https://github.com/danomatika/BangYourHead/tree/master/3.Audio/rand8player 
<https://github.com/danomatika/BangYourHead/tree/master/3.Audio/rand8player>

This could be further cleaned by using an output abstraction that wraps a 
[dac~] without creation args so you can set the output channel. You could also 
integrate the [dac~] into the existing channel map abstraction too, but I 
figured it was easier to read using a single doc~ object as an example.

if you want further heavy usage of this approach with multiple mapping layers, 
see https://github.com/zkmkarlsruhe/ZirkoniumSpatializationServer 
<https://github.com/zkmkarlsruhe/ZirkoniumSpatializationServer>

> On Oct 5, 2021, at 4:12 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2021 00:08:22 +0200
> From: Simon Iten mailto:itensi...@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-list mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] Fwd: random routing of 8 audio-streams to 8 outputs
> Message-ID:
><mailto:cap9nqknmyn6ojsfp9ujbcf-znykr5qrp6qnbxa60pocblsu...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> is there a somewhat elegant way to route 8 audio outputs (from readsf~) to
> 8 dac~ outputs randomly (on a bang for example)?
> 
> i.e. out1 to dac4, out2 to dac7 etc.
> 
> each output is allowed to one dac~ channel only.
> 
> mathematically speaking that would be 8! 8x7x6x5x4x3x2x1 (40320)
> possibilites, but i don?t see an easy way to program this in puredata.
> 
> some way of dynamic patching maybe? or a throw~ and catch~ approach? i get
> stuck on the random logic, since every ?step? that chooses a destinations
> changes the subsequent outputs that are still allowed to be chosen.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] list of Pd forks?

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Oct 6, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 11:55:30 +0200
> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] list of Pd forks?
> Message-ID:  <mailto:c139da94-ed70-2fe4-9b5d-571a7deaa...@christofressi.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 

> * different/better font size handling

Ouch. I hope this is your historical list and you *now* think vanilla has 
"better font size handling". :)


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] playing random media (bit OT)

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Sep 9, 2021, at 12:09 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
>> to build it from scratch is at this moment too big for me.

Ah apologies. I just saw you were *not* asking for custom solution approaches.

> On Sep 9, 2021, at 12:09 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> If I would approach something like this with all the media on disk and only 
> needs to be accessed locally, I would write a simple OSC database server with 
> something like Python. Basically, have a script that crawls through all the 
> folders and fills an SQLlite dB which the server then reads from and have 
> some basic queries via OSC. Pd could then say "I want an image" and the 
> server would respond with an OSC message containing the fullpath as a string 
> and perhaps any additional metadata which might be useful. The type and 
> amount of metadata depends on how much pre-processing and/or manual tagging 
> you want to do.
> 
> That would be a relatively quick & dirty solution. I'm sure there are more 
> robust and generalized media servers out there, but for some things making a 
> streamlined & focused solution is useful.
> 
>> On Sep 9, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 10:00:24 +0200
>> From: ro...@dds.nl <mailto:ro...@dds.nl>
>> To: Pd list mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>> Subject: [PD] playing random media (bit OT)
>> Message-ID: <13343ae5530cdee19236aec18082b...@dds.nl 
>> <mailto:13343ae5530cdee19236aec18082b...@dds.nl>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> 
>> hi, 
>> 
>> in memory of a great friend i lost 
>> 
>> i'm looking for a way to play  at random from his huge archive 
>> 
>> of mixed media (movies, pictures, sound). 
>> 
>> preferably with Puredata. 
>> 
>> to build it from scratch is at this moment too big for me. 
>> 
>> it would be very much appreciated when somebody can point me 
>> 
>> to something that goes in the direction of this goal. 
>> 
>> rolf
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] playing random media (bit OT)

[Dan Wilcox]

If I would approach something like this with all the media on disk and only 
needs to be accessed locally, I would write a simple OSC database server with 
something like Python. Basically, have a script that crawls through all the 
folders and fills an SQLlite dB which the server then reads from and have some 
basic queries via OSC. Pd could then say "I want an image" and the server would 
respond with an OSC message containing the fullpath as a string and perhaps any 
additional metadata which might be useful. The type and amount of metadata 
depends on how much pre-processing and/or manual tagging you want to do.

That would be a relatively quick & dirty solution. I'm sure there are more 
robust and generalized media servers out there, but for some things making a 
streamlined & focused solution is useful.

> On Sep 9, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2021 10:00:24 +0200
> From: ro...@dds.nl <mailto:ro...@dds.nl>
> To: Pd list mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] playing random media (bit OT)
> Message-ID: <13343ae5530cdee19236aec18082b...@dds.nl 
> <mailto:13343ae5530cdee19236aec18082b...@dds.nl>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> hi, 
> 
> in memory of a great friend i lost 
> 
> i'm looking for a way to play  at random from his huge archive 
> 
> of mixed media (movies, pictures, sound). 
> 
> preferably with Puredata. 
> 
> to build it from scratch is at this moment too big for me. 
> 
> it would be very much appreciated when somebody can point me 
> 
> to something that goes in the direction of this goal. 
> 
> rolf


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Opening Pd document on Mac

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy Mitch,

Yeah, I've noticed it for some months but haven't looked into it. It's most 
likely the GUI not getting the patch passed to it for the system, whether this 
is a fault in Tcl/Tk or not. In any case, you can open an issue on GitHub: 

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues>

> On Sep 4, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2021 17:12:08 -0400
> From: mitchell turner mailto:mmturner2...@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] Opening Pd document on Mac
> Message-ID: <9a4b122f-2a90-43da-878b-3a368b02d...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:9a4b122f-2a90-43da-878b-3a368b02d...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi all. 
> 
> First, thanks to all of you who work on Pd development. Though I do not, I 
> want you to know how important this application is to me and my work. 
> 
> However, I do have one issue. After updating to version 0.51-4, I find that 
> when I double click on a pd document (e.g., my_file.pd), the program opens 
> the console but the patcher window itself does not. I need to double click 
> the ?my_file.pd? document a second time for it to launch. 
> 
> Anyone know what might be the issue?
> 
> I?m using: MacBook Pro (13 inch, M1, 2020), MacOS 11.5.1, Pd 0.51-4
> 
> I looked through the last few months of the list archive but did not see this 
> issue addressed. Apologies if I missed a thread that covers this issue.
> 
> Thanks for any help, 
> Mitch


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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[PD] baton: UDP (OSC) <-> websocket

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

Just a quick note about a utility project which may be useful for some:

baton
Relay messages between UDP and a websocket with Python. Faster together.

> https://github.com/zkmkarlsruhe/baton <https://github.com/zkmkarlsruhe/baton>


It's basically a simple relay server which passes UDP messages to/from a 
websocket and is a quick way to get Pd to communicate with web browser clients 
using OSC via built-in objects.

----
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] JACK2 support on macOS

[Dan Wilcox]

As I mentioned in the Github issue, we should move to the following model

* Builds for *old* versions of macOS, should use jack weak linking to work with 
*old* builds of JackOSX (if they can find it).

* Builds for *newer* versions of macOS, should be built linking to the newer 
official Jack mac builds. This requires a newer build system and Jack 
pre-installed.

> On Jul 31, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> This is on 10.15.7. I don't have access to other macOS versions right
> now and I fully support being cautious. But contrary to your statement
> that JACK1 is more 'compatible', the Pd.app I get from Miller's site
> doesn't run with JACK2, which I believe is what users normally install
> these days. The site http://www.jackosx.com <http://www.jackosx.com/> 
> mentioned in INSTALL.txt
> doesn't exist anymore. 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] JACK affects UDP rate

[Dan Wilcox]

Peter’s ringbuffer.c works with arbitrary input and output lengths. I think the 
256 sizing is required when allocating.

If s_audio_paring.c is generalized already, maybe it can become s_audio_ring.c 
and used in the other audio backends, as suggested by Christof.

enohp ym morf tnes
---
Dan Wilcox
danomatika.com
robotcowboy.com


> On Jul 26, 2021, at 6:53 PM, Miller Puckette  wrote:
> 
> There's also the "ring buffer" stuff in s_audio_paring.c - it's quite general
> and well written.  Byte stream oriented.
> 
> cheers
> M
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 12:46:43PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> (Sending again with correct subject line. :P)
>> 
>> Note, there is Peter's C atomics ringbuffer.c implementation from libpd now 
>> in the Pd sources. It's limited to lengths of a multiple of  256 bytes I 
>> believe but easy to use.
>> 
>> I have used it successfully in the iOS Audio Unit to handle differing input 
>> and output buffer sizes due to sample rate conversion outside libpd.
>> 
>>>> On Jul 25, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>>>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>>> 
>>> If my analysis is correct (if not, please let me know!), I think the 
>>> Jack backend should really adapt the lock-free FIFO from the Portaudio 
>>> backend.
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__twitter.com_danomatika=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=rriLRXOzSyU6_Va6iL0QOqEY2MzSmUbkgcQaiciHxmU=XdVTS8KxGKUC8BBaTGN5FuyWRAGx6BV_HkFUpUVzLKs=
>>  >
>> danomatika.com 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__danomatika.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=rriLRXOzSyU6_Va6iL0QOqEY2MzSmUbkgcQaiciHxmU=BWViQV6On73sawahhwOPwM4xFsU_-Qwes31-gU5i5S0=
>>  >
>> robotcowboy.com 
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__robotcowboy.com_=DwIFAg=-35OiAkTchMrZOngvJPOeA=XprZV3Fxus2L1LCw80hE4Q=rriLRXOzSyU6_Va6iL0QOqEY2MzSmUbkgcQaiciHxmU=A7cKM5FSsSTvYlOaAfhIRU0T1BmvwOUX3ASGd87zmn8=
>>  >
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 



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Re: [PD] JACK affects UDP rate

[Dan Wilcox]

(Sending again with correct subject line. :P)

Note, there is Peter's C atomics ringbuffer.c implementation from libpd now in 
the Pd sources. It's limited to lengths of a multiple of  256 bytes I believe 
but easy to use.

I have used it successfully in the iOS Audio Unit to handle differing input and 
output buffer sizes due to sample rate conversion outside libpd.

> On Jul 25, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
> 
> If my analysis is correct (if not, please let me know!), I think the 
> Jack backend should really adapt the lock-free FIFO from the Portaudio 
> backend.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 196, Issue 28

[Dan Wilcox]

Note, there is Peter's C atomics ringbuffer.c implementation from libpd now in 
the Pd sources. It's limited to lengths of a multiple of  256 bytes I believe 
but easy to use.

> On Jul 25, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> If my analysis is correct (if not, please let me know!), I think the 
> Jack backend should really adapt the lock-free FIFO from the Portaudio 
> backend.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd files on Linux: MIME type and (document) icons

[Dan Wilcox]

From my side, there is no confusion: this was a separate repo for getting 
feedback on the updated icon. The finished icon renders were then added to the 
Pd source repo. I didn't see the need for putting everything in the main repo 
when the icon is likely not to change for a long time after.

The mime type handling etc should be part of the auto tools set up or some sort 
of Linux/frteedesktop script in the main repo, probably in the platform 
specific linux folder with appropriate documentation. If it's a makefile, it 
could be located there with the needed build rules which are only applied on 
the needed platform, ie. `make mimetype`, and would be installed with the other 
files as needed (if they go into a generic free desktop-y location).

> On Jul 16, 2021, at 4:23 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2021 16:21:01 -0700
> From: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> To: Max mailto:abonneme...@revolwear.com>>
> Cc: "pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>" 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd files on Linux: MIME type and (document) icons
> Message-ID: <20210715232101.asaqljuayexz7...@ucsd.edu 
> <mailto:20210715232101.asaqljuayexz7...@ucsd.edu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Hi all -
> 
> This appears to be a PR to https://github.com/pure-data/pd-icon 
> <https://github.com/pure-data/pd-icon> - but htere
> seems to be confusion as to whether this should be part of pure data itself.
> I think it wound be fine to have it in pure data - but I don't know if I 
> should
> just grab the files and stick them in pure-data or if that would cause trouble
> somehow.
> 
> cheers
> M


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Start Pd 0.51-4 without internet connection

[Dan Wilcox]

I believe it's a macOS system but the suggestion is still useful. If there is a 
firewall or application like Little Snitch running, it should add Pd to the 
whitelist otherwise the Pd core cannot communicate with the Pd GUI.

> On Jul 15, 2021, at 12:16 AM, Josh Moore  wrote:
> 
> On windows he will need to allow pd thru the firewall
> 
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2021, 2:04 PM Dan Wilcox  <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> Something is weird with your system. In general, localhost should *always* be 
> available.
> 
> What happens when you run the following in Terminal with wifi off? Press 
> CTRL+C to stop once it's running.
> 
> ping localhost
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2021, at 9:55 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 09:39:55 +0200
>> From: Maurice Moncozet > <mailto:mauricemonco...@gmail.com>>
>> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
>> Subject: [PD] Start Pd 0.51-4 without internet connection
>> Message-ID:
>>  > <mailto:CADc-AwGb99vMOE+VcSbsnvA3vuTGgQquDc5Ay_DHi+9=ucd...@mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> Hello,
>> When I have no internet connection I can start Pd 0.52-2 (iMac Mojave) with
>> the Terminal by going through Contents/resources/Bin/pd.
>> But it does not work with Pd 0.52-3 and Pd 0.52-4.
>> This is what the Terminal reports :
>> 
>> Last login: Tue Jul  6 09:30:01 on ttys000
>> mauricemoncozet-1:~ moncozetmaurice$
>> /Applications/Pd-0.51-4.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd ; exit;
>> localhost not found (inet protocol not installed?)
>> nodename nor servname provided, or not known (8)logout
>> Saving session...
>> ...copying shared history...
>> ...saving history...truncating history files...
>> ...completed.
>> 
>> [Op?ration termin?e]
>> 
>> What setting should I make?
>> Thank you for your response.
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 
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Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Start Pd 0.51-4 without internet connection

[Dan Wilcox]

Something is weird with your system. In general, localhost should *always* be 
available.

What happens when you run the following in Terminal with wifi off? Press CTRL+C 
to stop once it's running.

ping localhost

> On Jul 6, 2021, at 9:55 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 09:39:55 +0200
> From: Maurice Moncozet  <mailto:mauricemonco...@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: [PD] Start Pd 0.51-4 without internet connection
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CADc-AwGb99vMOE+VcSbsnvA3vuTGgQquDc5Ay_DHi+9=ucd...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello,
> When I have no internet connection I can start Pd 0.52-2 (iMac Mojave) with
> the Terminal by going through Contents/resources/Bin/pd.
> But it does not work with Pd 0.52-3 and Pd 0.52-4.
> This is what the Terminal reports :
> 
> Last login: Tue Jul  6 09:30:01 on ttys000
> mauricemoncozet-1:~ moncozetmaurice$
> /Applications/Pd-0.51-4.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd ; exit;
> localhost not found (inet protocol not installed?)
> nodename nor servname provided, or not known (8)logout
> Saving session...
> ...copying shared history...
> ...saving history...truncating history files...
> ...completed.
> 
> [Op?ration termin?e]
> 
> What setting should I make?
> Thank you for your response.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] sad news: RIP Martin Peach

[Dan Wilcox]

I will chime and say the same. I *think* I met him at the PdCon in Montreal and 
I was already using his osc objects for a year by then. Everything else was 
online and overall helpful.

Thanks for the code, the feedback, and all the fish. RIP mrpeach

> On Jul 7, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 12:05:04 -0400
> From: Dafydd Hughes mailto:dafyd...@gmail.com>>
> To: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> Cc: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>, 
> Pd-List
>   mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] sad news: RIP Martin Peach
> Message-ID: <45395905-0099-416f-9ef2-cf292d1c7...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:45395905-0099-416f-9ef2-cf292d1c7...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> I am among those who owe a huge debt to Martin Peach, although I never met 
> him. I?m so sorry to hear this news. 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2021, at 11:59 AM, Miller Puckette via Pd-list 
>> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Martin made a huge contribution to electronic musicians everywhere - I'll
>> sorely miss his generous personality and his creative insights.
>> 
>> Miller
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jul 05, 2021 at 11:51:47PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
>>> Sorry to bring this bad news and unfortunately I don't have much
>>> information. Derek Holzer posted on the facebook group the following "I
>>> just heard from one of his former students that Martin Peach has passed
>>> away. Rest In Power" and that is all I know.
>>> 
>>> In homage to him and his contribution to the community, I felt the need to
>>> make this announcement here, even though I did not know him or exchanged
>>> information with him directly.
>>> 
>>> Erin Gee, on the facebook group says "I loved him very much. He taught me
>>> everything I know about electronics. I feel the world is a little emptier
>>> knowing Martin is not with us anymore. Martin loved comets and outer space
>>> phenomena. The news of the new extremely large comet in recent days makes
>>> me think it is the cosmic resonance of his passing."


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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[PD] develop testing branch was: Find last error

[Dan Wilcox]

Slightly off-topic:

IOhannes, et al should we consider making a develop-testing style branch for 
integrating a number of PRs and the current develop branch for extended 
testing? I'd also like to have my sound file update branch get more use and it 
would then be an easier sell for Pd 0.52 etc...

> On Jun 15, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2021 09:41:18 +0200
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Find last error
> Message-ID: <564ebac4-d195-4cea-0297-3c2f983e2...@iem.at 
> <mailto:564ebac4-d195-4cea-0297-3c2f983e2...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 6/15/21 9:28 AM, Jo?o Pais wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> in parallel to the error discussion going on: the already existing "find 
>> last error" function can be quite helpful, but it doesn't always work. I 
>> didn't find any documentation for it (maybe I didn't search long 
>> enough), is it marked somewhere in which situations it works, and in 
>> which situations it doesn't?
> 
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/965 
> <https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/965>
> 
>> 
>> From the discussion going on, I imagine this function should not be 
>> connected with the new object, as they have completely different 
>> functions, correct?
> 
> yes. the two are orthogonal.
> 
> fmgasdr
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Ability to access error messages from patch

[Dan Wilcox]

(Resending to pd-list after respond to wrong post.)

Some quick thoughts on my end.

# error outlets

Let's say if we were to consider adding some sort of "standard outlet" for 
errors, how many objects are we talking about? I assume not every object but 
perhaps those which read/write files and the net objects? That's not so many, 
really. I already added a general "info" outlet for [soundfiler] which could 
easily be extended by outputting an error list ala "error # msg symbols..." or 
simply "errno."

One negative is that this sort of approach becomes relatively arbitrary and 
supported by only a few objects, some which may have a dedicated error outlet 
and others which may have a generalized outlet with some sort of error list 
selector etc. OTOH the growth of Pd's objects over time has ensured this kind 
of "arbitrariness" is part and parcel, so maybe it is less so.

A positive point is that it's relatively easy to communicate and work with. For 
instance, we have this paradigm to a small degree where [netrecieve] will 
output a 0 if the connect message failed.

# errno object

As Pd is more or less structured after C to some degree, I like the idea of 
formalizing something like errno and simply using the standard defined error 
numbers. At least there is something already to use, however the standard 
values are probably not enough to cover all cases but at least "can't open 
file" or "unsupported parameter" etc are there.

This would force a certain design paradigm where you need to do A then check 
error, then maybe do B and check error, etc. Sure, that's how you do it in C, 
for most things, but it's also a lot of boilerplate and boilerplate is much 
more annoying in a patcher.

# (sub)patch errors

I find a sub(patch) level error object enticing, ie. anything in this 
(sub)patch will throw an error to this object. I think IOhannes called them 
exceptions, but I would avoid that naming as I assume it will not halt or crash 
Pd if the error is not handled.

Like errno, this would force a certain design paradigm where you need to group 
object + error object all the time. In some cases it wouldn't bother me and in 
others I'd find it annoying. It would be simple to communicate however and 
relatively easy to integrate into Pd by, I assume, a new API call where objects 
can raise a "patch level" error as opposed to global stdout/stderr all console.

> On Jun 14, 2021, at 11:25 PM, pd-dev-requ...@lists.iem.at 
> <mailto:pd-dev-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
> 
> Method calls which can generate an error send the error code to a global 
> [errno] object and the user can query the current error state with a 
> bang. This would be similar to 'errno' in C.
> 
> If the user queries the errno immediately after the method call, Pd's 
> determinism guarantees that the error really belongs to that method 
> call. We would have to reserve a special value (e.g. "0") to mean "no 
> error".
> 
> My main point is that errors should not be *sent* by global or 
> canvas-local objects, but that they should be *queried*. This way the 
> user doesn't have to deal with cross talk between different objects.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[Dan Wilcox]

There is no earplug~ 0.3.0 package on deken  for macOS yet.

You can blame me as I have so far been too lazy to carve out time to learn to 
package and distribute for deken. So far I just ask if other people can do 
it... :)

> On Jun 8, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 8 Jun 2021 10:56:20 +0200
> From: IOhannes m zm?lnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Binaural w32?
> Message-ID: <1eb87617-397d-644c-59e7-adbf6b0b8...@iem.at 
> <mailto:1eb87617-397d-644c-59e7-adbf6b0b8...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 6/7/21 20:03, Jo?o Pais wrote:
>> if the only difference is the darwin file, would it be possible to send 
>> it here? (someone I know wanted to try it, but he can't learn how to 
>> install/try out externals)
> 
> wow. i thought it is much easier for people to install things via deken 
> than to manually download and extract (here comes the tricky part:) to 
> the proper directory.
> obviously this is not always the case.
> 
> btw, the latest and greatest deken-plugin (available via deken) allows 
> you to download deken-packages or get the URL to download it via some 
> other tools, which should make it simple to manually distribute the 
> zip-file if deken doesn't work for you for whatever reasons. (obviously 
> this only works if there *is* a deken-package)
> 
> gmdsr
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] UDP server with Pd

[Dan Wilcox]

With the Pd net object overhaul, pd is using sendto with UDP as suggested by 
Christof as well, I believe.

I agree that it would be nice to change the "connect" metaphor with UDP and 
[netsend -u]. Maybe one approach is to add another message such as your "to" 
which only works for UDP while retaining current "connect" functionality to not 
break patches.

> On Jun 7, 2021, at 11:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2021 23:00:21 +0200
> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> To: Martin Peach mailto:chakekat...@gmail.com>>, 
> Pd-List
>   mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] UDP server with Pd
> Message-ID:  <mailto:df5de976-556c-2a67-01f5-0c95d3adc...@christofressi.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Great to hear!
> 
> On 07.06.2021 22:57, Martin Peach wrote:
>> So I changed it to use sendto and it works a lot better. It receives
>> from multiple clients while sending to any one.
>> I added a [to ( message to set the destination, and removed the
>> [connect( and [disconnect{ methods.
>> Thanks Christof for the critique!.
>> 
>> Martin


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[Dan Wilcox]

earplug-0.3.0-macos-universal-64-arm-intel.zip 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/externals/earplug-0.3.0-macos-universal-64-arm-intel.zip>

> On Jun 7, 2021, at 8:03 PM, João Pais  wrote:
> 
> 
>>> I see that the version in deken is for all OSs except Mac, is that correct? 
>>> Is a mac (64+32b) binary available, or it's already there, only deken 
>>> doesn't know about it?
>> 
>> Lucas made a build for Linux and Windows. There isn't a build for macOS yet 
>> and we just need someone to upload one.
> 
> if the only difference is the darwin file, would it be possible to send it 
> here? (someone I know wanted to try it, but he can't learn how to install/try 
> out externals)
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Jun 7, 2021, at 9:33 AM, João Pais  wrote:
> 
> Great, thanks. A first tryout seems to work with no issues (and sounds better 
> than the previous version which was highly filtered).

Cool.

> I see that the version in deken is for all OSs except Mac, is that correct? 
> Is a mac (64+32b) binary available, or it's already there, only deken doesn't 
> know about it?

Lucas made a build for Linux and Windows. There isn't a build for macOS yet and 
we just need someone to upload one.

> Also to confirm: if for some reason the current earplug_data.txt file isn't 
> packed with earplug~, the default values within the object match the ones in 
> the txt file, correct?

Yes. The default behavior is to compile in the default dataset which can be 
overridden when an earplug_data.txt fiel is found and loaded. For those that 
compile the external themselves, there is an option to disable compiling in the 
data which makes the binary smaller but then requires the txt file.


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[Dan Wilcox]

Ok, earplug~ 0.3.0 is ready:

https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug 
<https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug>

Lucas (or any Windows dev), if you have time, could you make Windows builds for 
deken? Then Joao can give it a try...

> On Jun 2, 2021, at 5:04 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> Nothing too major.
> 
> We haven't made a changelog yet but the changes in the current main branch 
> form the last 0.2.1 tag (2013) are: 
> 
> * update to build via pd-lib-builder
> * loading the dataset txt file is now optional (needs double-checking)
> * fixed hang when dataset file is not loadable
> * post header only once on load and include version
> * avoid crashes by making sure that the "dsp" method cannot be called from 
> the patch
> 
> Some future optimizations in the pipeline are: 
> https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/pulls 
> <https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/pulls>
> 
> I will try to add a changelog and new stable 0.2.2 tag tonight. You could 
> then bug a Windows dev to make a build for deken...
> 
> When we review the other optimizations, they would go into a 0.3.0 version.
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:56 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 13:33:11 +0100
>> From: Jo?o Pais mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com>>
>> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] Binaural w32?
>> Message-ID: <3ffaeb84-291c-7e2e-981e-a1ca531f6...@gmail.com 
>> <mailto:3ffaeb84-291c-7e2e-981e-a1ca531f6...@gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>> 
>> that is nice - although I can't really build anything in windows on my 
>> own. what are the improvements compared to the 2009 version?
>> 
>> 
>>> I updated the earplug~ external to build using pd-lin-builder, so it 
>>> should be easy to build on Windows:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main 
>>> <https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main> 
>>> <https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main 
>>> <https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main>>
>>> 
>>> It's not the best but we use it for a project at work. It can use some 
>>> additional optimizations and the dataset is for 44.1k so you are in 
>>> luck. For our project, we are likely to introduce resampling for other 
>>> sample rates so it's more accurate beyond 44.1k...


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] UDP server with Pd

[Dan Wilcox]

Ah yes, you are right. [timeout( is for TCP. I think I got that mixed up with 
UDP previously closing itself after some sort of unknown host return etc which 
we removed to make it "fire and forget."

> On Jun 4, 2021, at 4:17 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 04 Jun 2021 16:17:29 +0200
> From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> To: Dan Wilcox mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] UDP server with Pd
> Message-ID: <2aed329cdb23e198c96f658f05a81ce4f276bf84.ca...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:2aed329cdb23e198c96f658f05a81ce4f276bf84.ca...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Thu, 2021-06-03 at 19:51 +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
>> You could try a longer connection timeout via the [timeout f(
>> message. 
> 
> Isn't the 'timeout' method only affecting TCP sessions? In UDP nothing
> at all is sent when using 'connect' method. It internally sets
> destination address and port, I believe.


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] UDP server with Pd

[Dan Wilcox]

You could try a longer connection timeout via the [timeout f( message. The 
default is 10 seconds, I believe, but maybe it might need more time if hosts 
take forever to resolve.

> On Jun 3, 2021, at 6:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 03 Jun 2021 14:52:07 +0200
> From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] UDP server with Pd
> Message-ID:  <mailto:d588131641f4e973e59201abc884fc5191cb0e6c.ca...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 15:27 -0700, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote:
>> One solution (which the conniption server/client and quacktrip both
>> use in somewhat different ways) is for a "netreceive" object to wait
>> for an incoming connection and then, once one arrives, immediately to
>> close
>> its own listening port and for a "nestsend" in the same patch to open
>> a connection to the IP and port that the "netreceive" reported (via
>> its
>> second outlet).  It's a bit complicated but gets the job done.
> 
> 
> Turns out this works for light loads only. For the loads I'm interested
> in, the clients get "disconnected". Probably the server is sending an
> ICMP notification that the destination port is not ready or something
> like that and [netsend -u -b] on the client side terminates the
> "connection" (outlet turns zero). 
> 
> Roman


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[Dan Wilcox]

Nothing too major.

We haven't made a changelog yet but the changes in the current main branch form 
the last 0.2.1 tag (2013) are: 

* update to build via pd-lib-builder
* loading the dataset txt file is now optional (needs double-checking)
* fixed hang when dataset file is not loadable
* post header only once on load and include version
* avoid crashes by making sure that the "dsp" method cannot be called from the 
patch

Some future optimizations in the pipeline are: 
https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/pulls 
<https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/pulls>

I will try to add a changelog and new stable 0.2.2 tag tonight. You could then 
bug a Windows dev to make a build for deken...

When we review the other optimizations, they would go into a 0.3.0 version.

> On Jun 2, 2021, at 3:56 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2021 13:33:11 +0100
> From: Jo?o Pais mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Binaural w32?
> Message-ID: <3ffaeb84-291c-7e2e-981e-a1ca531f6...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:3ffaeb84-291c-7e2e-981e-a1ca531f6...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> 
> that is nice - although I can't really build anything in windows on my 
> own. what are the improvements compared to the 2009 version?
> 
> 
>> I updated the earplug~ external to build using pd-lin-builder, so it 
>> should be easy to build on Windows:
>> 
>> https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main 
>> <https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main> 
>> <https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main 
>> <https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main>>
>> 
>> It's not the best but we use it for a project at work. It can use some 
>> additional optimizations and the dataset is for 44.1k so you are in 
>> luck. For our project, we are likely to introduce resampling for other 
>> sample rates so it's more accurate beyond 44.1k...


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] 3 net objects

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Jun 2, 2021, at 12:35 PM, Lucas Cordiviola  wrote:
> 
> just because if we are all together in the same lan i prefer to tell others 
> "browse http://192.168.1.20;.


I agree, which is why Pd accepts *both* and defaults to IPv4 for 
simplicity/compatibility.

----
Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] 3 net objects

[Dan Wilcox]

"Why U No IPV6?"

:)

Even Pd now supports IPV6... See the functions in s_net for some helpers which 
may be useful, although s_net.h is not really part of the public API in m_pd.h. 
AT the very least, there are implementation snippets you can check out for 
configuration for IPv4 and IPv6.

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/src/s_net.h 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/src/s_net.h>

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/src/s_net.c 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/src/s_net.c>

> On Jun 2, 2021, at 9:27 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> [webserver]
> - ipv4 http server (threaded).


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Binaural w32?

[Dan Wilcox]

I updated the earplug~ external to build using pd-lin-builder, so it should be 
easy to build on Windows:

https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main 
<https://github.com/pd-externals/earplug/tree/main>

It's not the best but we use it for a project at work. It can use some 
additional optimizations and the dataset is for 44.1k so you are in luck. For 
our project, we are likely to introduce resampling for other sample rates so 
it's more accurate beyond 44.1k...

> On Jun 2, 2021, at 12:06 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2021 14:12:23 +0100
> From: Jo?o Pais mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com>>
> To: PD-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] Binaural w32?
> Message-ID:  <mailto:ef02d682-c394-1622-2787-a7de210f1...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> what is the current state of the art in binaural externals? I see in the 
> archives that there are several around, each with advantages/disadvantages.
> 
> I would need it to:
> 
> - windows 32b
> 
> - record the output of an already existing patch with x-y 
> coordinates/trajectories into binaural audio
> 
> - sample rate fixed at 44.1KHz
> 
> - there are around 500 samples with an individual player, so each will 
> need its own enconder. They don't play necessarily all together, though.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Joao


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Pd FLOSS Manual, what to do with it?

[Dan Wilcox]

My 2 cents...

> On May 31, 2021, at 11:07 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres  
> wrote:
> 
> what's a "pd-extended location" and where is it?
>  
> The "main" Pd FLOSS manual should be Vanilla + links or sections to active 
> forks including the original Pd-extended manual. The current manual could 
> then be refactored/updated and existing links would not be *terribly* broken.
> 
> It has now come to my attention that we have different versions of this 
> manual. There's an archived version => 
> http://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/ 
> <http://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/> 


This link is what I consider the "pd-extended" manual as it was written focused 
on extended, although naturally most of what's there works with vanilla. I 
would say keep this archived as it is but add some header text and make some 
edits so it is clear this is

1. for Pd-extended which is no longer maintained
2. kept for archival purposes
3. people should look to the "main" Pd-vanilla manual, where that will be

As to organization and where to put things and who does what, well it looks 
like mickfuzz is already started on it. In fact, who archived the old manual? 
Maybe he/she/they did...


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] is there a way to color the points/curve in an array ?

[Dan Wilcox]

> On May 31, 2021, at 6:39 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> now i?ll be opening a new topic on how to create one in gem, as joao 
> suggested.
> i really have no clue, where to start?

[scopeXYZ~] ? ala https://github.com/jyg/gemscope- 
<https://github.com/jyg/gemscope-> etc... 


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Pd FLOSS Manual, what to do with it?

[Dan Wilcox]

I agree. I think the current Pd-extended focused manual could be moved to a 
Pd-extended location for historical reasons. The "main" Pd FLOSS manual should 
be Vanilla + links or sections to active forks including the original 
Pd-extended manual. The current manual could then be refactored/updated and 
existing links would not be *terribly* broken.

> On May 31, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 30 May 2021 18:48:18 -0300
> From: Esteban Viveros mailto:emvive...@gmail.com>>
> To: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd FLOSS Manual, what to do with it?
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CAJQqjJQCHRhc6mR4f==uoaJRGBCr3JgqfRZnK=o1w3-oflm...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I think the best with Pd Floss is first to elucidate the community about
> Pd-Vanilla and the Forks. The name Pure Data Floss tutorial should be
> relayed in Pd-Vanilla only. In a historical Introduction, it can explain
> the history of creation of Pd, about Pd-Extended death, the actual
> situation and cite Pd forks, like Pd-ceammc and Purr-Data.
> 
> After that we can update and even improve Pure Data Floss and it is. If
> Pd-ceammc and Purr-Data communities start thinking about creating a
> FLOSS for your distribution, they can do it with their proper names.
> 
> This can avoid a lot of noise in the community and create an environment
> where everyone can choose the Pd software that best suits their needs.
> 
> Cheers
>  Esteban


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Patterns for Pd Documentation

[Dan Wilcox]

Does anyone have a link, etc to the pddoc project/external from Pd-extended? I 
feel a lot of this was already approached over 10 years ago but not ported over 
into Pd vanilla. It might be worth checking it out before starting from scratch.

Also, keep in mind that old habits may be hard to break so don't be surprised 
if enforcing "one pattern to rule them all" might become "whack-a-mole."

> On May 25, 2021, at 1:50 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 20:49:37 -0300
> From: Esteban Viveros mailto:emvive...@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] Patterns for Pd Documentation
> Message-ID:
>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello list! I'm looking for beliefs, judgment, advice, and anything that
> can contribute to better documentation of the entire world for pd users
> only.
> 
> I suggest explicit 2 points:
> 1. What is the audience that you believe will make use of the Pd
> documentation? Things like, advanced english speakers, academics, the
> gender, low/high earning power, if they are programmers, musicians, open
> source people, nationality... whatever you can write in a few words.
> 
> 2. Issues you see in actual way to document the objects, suggestions to
> improve documentation to meet your imagined pd user.
> 
> Educational experiences, examples of documentation patterns, opinions about
> how things have been done so far are welcome! If you want to contribute
> more in effort to improve Pd Docs Structure I have opened a issue in Pd
> github: Pattern design for Pd Documentation
>  >
> 
> Thanks for all! :)

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Re: [PD] PInstrument, modular synthesis on Raspberry Pi

[Dan Wilcox]

Thanks for sharing! Indeed, I find one of Pd's super powers is how flexible it 
is becoming across devices and environments.

> On May 19, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Using Eurorack has
> fundamentally shifted some of my approaches to Pure Data coding and I
> wanted to see what I could accomplish here. You can run it with Eurorack
> with Expert Sleepers or just run it stand alone on your computer.

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Re: [PD] 4-point interpolation changes timbre depending on sample rate

[Dan Wilcox]

Sure but there tends to be a point to where it makes sense. The discussion 
seems to indicate this. Also, I suppose would have separate objects for sound 
file types, [wavfile], [aifffile], etc but a unified object clearly made sense 
in that context. As I mentioned before, it seems like there is a set of "tried 
& true" algorithms for interpolation...

> On May 4, 2021, at 6:23 PM, Charles Z Henry  wrote:
> 
> I tend to feel apprehensive about making a swiss-army knife kind of
> object that tries to solve every problem.  It's hard to tell when it
> actually is the right solution.


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] ignore hidden files from hcs/folder_list

[Dan Wilcox]

Might I suggest:

find path/to/sample/dir -name "._*.wav" -delete

:)

Test first without the "-delete" flag.

> On May 4, 2021, at 6:09 PM, Samuel Burt  
> wrote:
> 
> Same directory. These samples were created by someone else, so I don't know 
> what program created them. 
> 
> On Tue, May 4, 2021, 10:39 AM Dan Wilcox  <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I'm interested in more info about this behavior. I'm only aware of macOS 
> Finder creating .DS_Store files and temp directories so Spotlight can index 
> and show media playback via Quick Look. Is something creating hidden temp 
> files in the same directory as the audio files themselves or are these in a 
> subdirectory?
> 
>> On May 4, 2021, at 3:47 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> 
>> I'm loading a directory of audio files but there are a ton of ._files.wav
>> that were created by OSX. I've got a bunch of audio sample directories like
>> this and I could go through and remove all these files, but this software
>> will also be used by someone on a Mac, so it's better to just ignore this
>> inconvenient OS behavior if possible.


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] ignore hidden files from hcs/folder_list

[Dan Wilcox]

I'm interested in more info about this behavior. I'm only aware of macOS Finder 
creating .DS_Store files and temp directories so Spotlight can index and show 
media playback via Quick Look. Is something creating hidden temp files in the 
same directory as the audio files themselves or are these in a subdirectory?

> On May 4, 2021, at 3:47 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> I'm loading a directory of audio files but there are a ton of ._files.wav
> that were created by OSX. I've got a bunch of audio sample directories like
> this and I could go through and remove all these files, but this software
> will also be used by someone on a Mac, so it's better to just ignore this
> inconvenient OS behavior if possible.


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] 4-point interpolation changes timbre depending on sample rate

[Dan Wilcox]

(If we go into development details, this discussion could be moved to pd-dev.)

> On May 4, 2021, at 10:54 AM, Clemens Wegener  wrote:
> 
> I also think it makes sense to specify arguments to tabread~ (or delread~) to 
> specify the interpolation.
> 
> Dan you are suggesting an api like this to manage code size and structuring.
> I see, because when we put everything into the tabread~ (or delread~) class 
> with just flags from arguments/messages, it would get hard to maintain.

Exactly. Hacking away and cramming everything in the existing class starts to 
get unweidly and harder to extend/maintain.

> E.g. for tabread:
> So we would create a header „d_array.h" with the function declarations?

Possibly. I did this approach because I wanted to split out the file type 
implementations and there were a number of helper functions as well. In this 
case, if the api is relatively small and self-contained, a header is probably 
not necessary.

> Should every interpolation type have its own function declaration or do we 
> override for different types?

No override.

I'd say there would just need to be a way to pass the array and samples to/from 
the algorithm, so that would be formalized via function which each 
implementation can do separately. Then choosing the algorithm just changes 
which function pointers are called. In the sound file update, the soundfile 
type is a struct and each implementation sets the function pointers and 
registers itself on setup (at the bottom of each type implementation file). I 
used this pattern as it is a common C approach and used through out the Pd 
sources, as far as I can tell, although I would not say I am a C master having 
started with C++ & object-orientation.

> (A bit like an abstract class, but I don’t know how this works in C)
> The definitions would still go into „d_array.c“?

That was my approach with the soundfile update. The sound file implementations 
are in separate files ala d_soundfile_aiff.c.. In this case, I imagine the 
algorithms are not as complicated, so maybe they can all go in one file such as 
d_array_inter.c (aka interpolation), etc.

> Refactoring and testing this could take quite some time...

Yup. My approach was to start only by refactoring the existing code and 
separating it without changing anything major. Once that was working, then I 
started updates and bug fixes. It was maybe 1 month of work with help form 
others in testing, but I don't think this will take nearly as long.

>> Am 2021-05-04 um 04:35 schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres > <mailto:por...@gmail.com>>:
>> 
>> Em seg., 3 de mai. de 2021 às 12:52, Dan Wilcox > <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
>> Maybe I'm opening a can of worms, but I could imagine tabread etc taking an 
>> argument to specify which algorithm to use among a (small) list of those 
>> available. The current algorithm would be the default so as not to break 
>> existing patches. :)
>> 
>> I had suggested the same! ;) 
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Re: [PD] 4-point interpolation changes timbre depending on sample rate

[Dan Wilcox]

Maybe I'm opening a can of worms, but I could imagine tabread etc taking an 
argument to specify which algorithm to use among a (small) list of those 
available. The current algorithm would be the default so as not to break 
existing patches. :)

I'm no expert, but if there are a known set of tried-and-true approaches, maybe 
they could added through a simple API. This is sort of how I refactored the 
soundfile type handling in the (as yet unmerged) soundfile object update 
branch: 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/0061a083e85ba2548668825b693a72fdf98ceef3/src/d_soundfile.h#L47
 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/0061a083e85ba2548668825b693a72fdf98ceef3/src/d_soundfile.h#L47>

> On May 3, 2021, at 3:37 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 3 May 2021 15:24:10 +0200
> From: Clemens Wegener mailto:clemens@chair.audio>>
> To: Charles Z Henry mailto:czhe...@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] 4-point interpolation changes timbre depending on
>   sample rate
> Message-ID:  <mailto:B6FDFF69-EE54-4F59-8234-5A53D086229C@chair.audio>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I think now would be a good place to pause the implementation and discuss 
> if there is a need for this kind of algorithm in the PD community. 
> 
> We saw some use cases for the Whittaker-Shannon interpolation where
> we gain in quality and/or speed. Namely waveguides and pitch shifters. 
> 
> Is there anything else, where we would like to use this interpolation kernel?
> Like in general resampling?
> In the tabread~ for sample playback?
> Are there really quality or speed issues that we could solve there?
> 
> For our use case the code I submitted is good enough. But I would be happy 
> to spend more time optimizing if there is a need / a broad use of that 
> algorithm.
> In that case we need another restructuring and some help from somebody
> who is very proficient in writing pd source code. :)


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Context menu depending on window focus?

[Dan Wilcox]

Yes, you must click to focus, then right-click.

The menubar is basically updated each time the window is changed and the 
bindings are redone for whatever window is focused. Could this be improved? 
Probably. How much can we improve it? Dunno, it might be limited by whatever 
the Tk implementation is based on.

If someone wants to experiment with improving this, look in Pd's Tcl where the 
focus handling is done, I think main in the bindings file.

> On Apr 24, 2021, at 4:23 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2021 14:26:28 +0200
> From: "hans w. koch" mailto:hansw.k...@gmail.com>>
> To: "Peter P." mailto:peterpar...@fastmail.com>>
> Cc: pd-list mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Context menu depending on window focus?
> Message-ID:  <mailto:e8c33eb0-1b4c-4607-94ad-d495cd008...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> incidentally i noticed the same behaviour today, but found it rather funny 
> (macOS 10.14.6)
> probably because i am old and grew up with windows not in focus not doing 
> anything.
> 
> since on macOS other apps behave mostly differently (the non focus window 
> accepts control-click), i suspect its a tcl/tk issue.
> but what do i know?
> 
> cheers hans
> 
>> Am 24.04.2021 um 12:48 schrieb Peter P. > <mailto:peterpar...@fastmail.com>>:
>> 
>> Hi list,
>> 
>> on OS X and Linux the context menu of a patch behaves differentely
>> whether the window is focussed (foreground) or not.
>> 
>> Selecting "Help..." for an object in an unfocussed window will open the
>> introduction help patch regardless, selecting "Open" for a subpatch or
>> abstraction will silently fail. I feel making a right click on an
>> unfocussed window should either not open a context menu at all or pull
>> that window into the foreground (focus it) and open the menu with its
>> correct function. Maybe this is an OS/Tk issue and it is known since
>> a long time?
>> 
>> thanks/regards,
>> P


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] size and position of PD window

[Dan Wilcox]

Sounds good to me. I'm not sure, but I might have added that, but I don't 
remember any specific reason why. It might have filtered in from porting some 
of the pd-extended stuff.

In any case, I'm all for it. :) You should also probably check the initial 
dialog positions as well.

> On Apr 16, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> however, i found that if you don't specify the position in the first 
> place, the WM will do the right thing? and open the window on the 
> currently active monitor.
> 
> so i wondered whether we shouldn't just let the WM decide where to put 
> the main pdwindow.
> (on my system  this would be the center of the currently active monitor)
> in caser you wondered, we can still specify the window dimension.
> 
> would this break anybodies experience?


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] size and position of PD window

[Dan Wilcox]

Well, I can think of applications that have a preference for which *screen* to 
open a window on (fullscreen video output for instance) but not one with a 
preference for specifying x, y, w, & h of a window to open. This kind of 
geometry setting can also be fragile as you change the amount of monitors in 
your setup, etc. I would therefore argue this is not a basic setting and it's 
also not trivial to try to divine what settings all users *might* want and then 
add a UI for them. OTOH if you have a working technical solution, feel free to 
make a PR to the Github repo for review.

IOhannes' solution is by far the best: If you want to run some TCL to customize 
things, then do so *and* without having to modify Pd tcl files. :)

> On Apr 15, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2021 15:57:30 +
> From: Philip Stone mailto:pkst...@ucdavis.edu>>
> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>" 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] size and position of PD window
> Message-ID:
>   
>   
> <mailto:byapr08mb55892ad8da556b7178d2b745a7...@byapr08mb5589.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>>
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Why? Because it seems like a basic setting, and it would be trivial to 
> implement as a preference. This seems (to me) like just what preferences are 
> for, configuring the basic environment of Pd.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] pd~ and midiin objects

[Dan Wilcox]

Hehe, I use those all the time... :)

> On Mar 19, 2021, at 12:24 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 20:23:37 -0300
> From: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> To: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] pd~ and midiin objects
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CAEAsFmh6z-=gLfoKEH8KXMi-GRmWknzUFPhnQNsiQEALYj=d...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> what prevents us from making this official and documented? :)
> 
> Em qui., 18 de mar. de 2021 ?s 11:41, Christof Ressi  <mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> escreveu:
> 
>> This is neither documented nor official, but you can forward MIDI events
>> by sending to the following special symbols:


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Formatted datetime message

[Dan Wilcox]

+1 This is what I was going to suggest. I agree it would be nice to have some 
sort of date/time utility built in, especially as it's part of C / Posix as far 
as I know.

> On Mar 18, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 10:29:37 +0100
> From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Formatted datetime message
> Message-ID: <25eb29855607eae0a6afc8bed501a6c2e16f39c5.ca...@gmail.com 
> <mailto:25eb29855607eae0a6afc8bed501a6c2e16f39c5.ca...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Thu, 2021-03-18 at 09:57 +0100, Nicolas Montgermont wrote:
> 
>> I was wondering what is the best (as in easiest/cleaner/vaniller) way
>> to 
>> produce a filename with formatted date inside these days.
>> producing that kind of message with a bang:
>> MMDD-HHMMSS
> 
> 
> I don't think there is a vanilla way to get date and time. Zexy comes
> with [date] and [time]. You could use [makefilename %02d] to create
> zero-padded symbols from the different outlets and use a message box to
> glue the whole string together:
> 
> [symbol $1$2$3-$4$5$6(
> 
> Roman


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] symbols with zero paddings and spaces

[Dan Wilcox]

My thoughts too. I think it should work using "normal" escaping mechanisms on 
the command line and lead to predictable results, ie. "quoted" strings end up 
as symbols in Pd.

The fault could also lie in pesend which should do the escaping before sending 
as well.

> On Mar 18, 2021, at 10:29 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2021 09:18:32 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmoelnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] symbols with zero paddings and spaces
> Message-ID:  <mailto:c5b2daaf-2979-dac5-aa5c-d800b282c...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> On 3/17/21 2:25 PM, Christof Ressi wrote:
>> 
>> Note the different position of the backslash! I'm not sure if this 
>> particular escaping behavior is actually intended or just works by 
>> chance... Generally, it would be great to document Pd's string escaping, 
>> because it is not entirely obvious.
> 
> 
> something like that was reported as 
> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1277 
> <https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1277>
> 
> i'm pretty convinced that the backslash escaping of numbers to force 
> them to symbols is accidental and should not be relied on.
> whenever i find the time, i would like to fix this bug.
> 
> 
> gfmdasr
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] symbols with zero paddings and spaces

[Dan Wilcox]

The 02, 0003 & 004 are being interpreted as floats and not symbols which is why 
the leading 0s are dropped

 Try using double quotes to force them to be interpreted as strings.

echo '"01" "02" "0003" "004" "05.txt"' | /usr/bin/pdsend 3001 localhost udp

This works for me on macOS, but the quotes remain with the symbols after 
receiving. Maybe there is another escape mechanism for this case?

udp: "01" "02" "0003" "004" "05.txt"

> On Mar 17, 2021, at 11:40 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 11:40:29 +0100
> From: oliver mailto:oli...@klingt.org>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: [PD] symbols with zero paddings and spaces
> Message-ID: <20640105c3eb39645edcd41d3ad25...@mail.klingt.org 
> <mailto:20640105c3eb39645edcd41d3ad25...@mail.klingt.org>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> hi, dear list !
> 
> when i try to send a symbol containing spaces AND numbers prepended by 
> zeros with [pdsend], the zeros get truncated in unpredictable ways.
> 
> to see what i mean, please do the following:
> 
> 1.) open the [netreceive] help patch
> 2.) open a console and try the following command:
> 
> == LINUX/OSX: ===
> 
> ~$ echo "01 02 0003 004 05.txt" | /usr/bin/pdsend 3001 localhost udp
> 
> === WINDOWS: 
> 
>> echo "01 02 0003 004 05.txt" | "C:\Program Files\Pd\bin\pdsend.exe"  
>> 3001 localhost udp
> 
> =
> 
> the resulting output from [netreceive -u 3001] will be:
> 
> udp: "01 2 3 4 05.txt"


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Adding up a thicket of oscillators

[Dan Wilcox]

I'm not quite sure I understand your patching approach enough to debug.

If it's at all helpful, I can suggest how I might do this via [clone -n 1] with 
72 instances of an abstraction:

[inlet]
|
[route freq gain]
|
[osc]
|
[*~ 0.25] <-- perhaps some trim amount as lots of osc are being summer
|
[*~ ] <--- single osc gain value goes here
|
[outlet~]

The outlets are summed in clone through the output. If you need stereo, it's 
the same just with two [outlet~]s and some sort of panner.

UDP messages would then just need to have the gain values read and applied to 
the clone instances by their ID, ie.

[1 gain 0.25
|
[clone 72 -n 1 orc-abs]
|
[*~ ] <--- master gain
|
[dac~] <-- or some similar output abstraction

Not knowing your networking message layout, I can't say anything else other 
than "use OSC" as addressing and arguments are relatively easy to work with via:

[netreceive -u -b]
|
[oscparse]
|
perhaps some routing etc
|
[clone]

> On Mar 14, 2021, at 3:31 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2021 03:31:23 +0100
> From: Michael Karr  >
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> Subject: [PD] Adding up a thicket of oscillators
> Message-ID:
>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I am working on a multichannel sound piece, with 72 oscillators, receiving
> data from ffmpeg over udp. Each oscillator stream has its own intensity
> fluctuations. However, when I try to add the dynamic parts and scale them
> collectively (using *~ and a very tender slider), I get no output, whereas
> adding up the raw oscillators does produce audio, minus the individual
> fluctuations.
> 
> 1) how do I combine all of these dynamic signals?
> 2) how can I make else/count start counting the moment information starts
> flowing through the udp port, and stop again once the feed stops, while
> keeping the connection active?
> 
> 
> Kind regards,
> Michael

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Re: [PD] declare: stdlib vs lib

[Dan Wilcox]

At some point I think I added checking stdpaths *last* in the list for -lib for 
convenience and to move away for everyone needing to use -stdpath, but I just 
used what was there without looking into the logic of how the loader works.

> On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:55 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> i wonder if this is intentional.
> 
> i'm absolutely in favour that "-lib" loads libraries in the stdpath.
> (i'm just mentioning this, even though i don't think that this is 
> actually the issue here)


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Re: [PD] Best practices for [declare]

[Dan Wilcox]

Honestly, I'm not going to rehash *all* of the discussions about paths, but I 
do feel like writing some perspective, at least as far as I see it as a user, 
someone who has taught Pd a bit, and someone who has now worked on it.

# Standard Paths

What I will point out is that, in most ways, "standard path" is a misnomer in 
Pd.

These we originally added as essentially hardcoded search paths:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/src/s_path.c#L243 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/src/s_path.c#L243>

Linux:
~/.local/lib/pd/extra/
~/pd-externals
/usr/local/lib/pd-externals

macOS:
~/Library/Pd

Windows:
%AppData%/Pd
%CommonProgramFiles%/Pd

And I believe Pd's own bundled "extra" path is one of these as well.

"Hey that's great!" says everyone "Now I can just plop things in there!"

...except that things change over the years.

The "Library" folder in the macOS user home folder has been hidden by default 
for some years now. Whoops, easy to find place gone for Mac people. "Oh but 
they can just put stuff in extra" ...except that "extra" is located INSIDE the 
macOS .app bundle, so now we need to ask beginners to literally OPEN an app 
they download and add files INSIDE. H not scary at all?

For Windows people, where is that again? Kind of obscure for some people as 
well.

Linux makes the most sense, but how many users want a "pd-externals" folder in 
their home folder and how many beginners are going to navigate to 
/usr/local/lib/pd-externals?

# User Search Paths

So moving forward, people can add their own user search paths aka not one of 
the hardcoded "standard paths" which are mostly obscure / hard to find for 
beginners. Then they can define their OWN place to plop externals. Great!

...except that beginners have to manually create their own folder, add it to 
the user search paths, and then it works. How many people do this right on the 
first go? Maybe not a big deal, but another stumbling block.

# Deken

As Pd-extended slowy dies out, deken is introduced to help with decentralized 
externals. Great! We have a tool to help download and install pre-buitd 
externals.

...but where do we put them? Originally, deken downloaded to the bundled extra 
folder because it was the only "standard path" known to exist on all systems. 
Great!

...except macOS people STILL are downloading and installing things INSIDE the 
Pd .app bundle. So when you delete the .app and replace it with a new version 
of Pd, you've lost all of your externals and you may not know why if you've 
only ever downloaded things with deken.

Sure, you can specify a deken download location but it's yet another step to 
ask beginners to have created such a location, add it to their user search 
path, AND specify that deken should use it. I think the early versions of 
deken, you had to manually choose the download location on EVERY download.

# Documents Directory

After prodding from other Pd users on this list who also teach Pd, the 
Documents Directory was added as a helper to create a user search path for both 
beginners to use AND provide a default deken download location 
(~/Documents/Pd/externals) which is also added to the user search paths on 
creation. Beginners now have a basic place to start with and externals 
downloaded form deken should be found via declare.

The ~/Documents/Pd location was chosen as it mirrors the locations chosen by 
various other "creative coding" environments such as Processing 
(~/Documents/Processing) and Arduino (~/Documents/Arduino). If the documents 
directory is enabled, Pd GUI dialogs also open here by default instead of in 
the user home folder.

This is not a replacement for the previous "standard paths" but sort of a 
"super user search path" that can be created for you, if you want.

If you hate this, you can click NO when it asks or disable it in the Paths 
preferences, and curse me as I wrote the plugin which provides this 
functionality.

For posterity, the full background on this feature is here: 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/152 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/152>

> On Feb 26, 2021, at 12:58 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:48:23 + (UTC)
> From: Sebastian Shader mailto:sebfumas...@aol.com>>
> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>" 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Best practices for [declare]
> Message-ID: <2025038600.476357.1614296903...@mail.yahoo.com 
> <mailto:2025038600.476357.1614296903...@mail.yahoo.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> why is it that using standard install locations isn't encouraged (or rather, 
> why did it move into Documents of all places?)

Re: [PD] Best practices for [declare]

[Dan Wilcox]

> Are "-stdpath" and "-stdlib" still absolutely necessary today? If they 
> weren't, they could be made equivalent to "-path" and "-lib" so every choice 
> would work.
> Maybe a startup flag could then restore the original behavior, if needed.

I don't think this should be changed as there are some situations where you 
want to look in extra, such as when bundling externals with a custom version of 
Pd.


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] Best practices for [declare]

[Dan Wilcox]

(reposting with correct subject line)

Perhaps [declare] needs an order index argument, similar to [gemhead #] to 
clearly specify order when required?

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps for use with "nested" code, use of abstractions, possibly in
>> other abstractions etc.
>> 
> yes and it would be better readable than a long list of "-path ..."s with 
> linebreaks ...


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 191, Issue 51

[Dan Wilcox]

Perhaps [declare] needs an order index argument, similar to [gemhead #] to 
clearly specify order when required?

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps for use with "nested" code, use of abstractions, possibly in
>> other abstractions etc.
>> 
> yes and it would be better readable than a long list of "-path ..."s with 
> linebreaks ...


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] detect dependencies from patch

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy Phil,

We are moving away from the "extra" folder and additional "standard paths" like 
~/.pd-externals in favor user search paths for most use cases. This requires 
specifying folders, so a helper "Documents Directory" was added, mainly for 
beginners and students but I find it generally useful. For those that don't, it 
can simply be ignored and disabled.

I think the info on this was updated in the included Pd manual by Alex, but off 
the top of my head the simplest explanation is the following:

If not enabled, enable the Pd Documents Directory:

Preferences -> Path... -> Pd Documents Directory -> Reset

There should now be a ~/Documents/Pd/externals folder which is also added to 
the user search paths.

Put external library folders in there, deken also downloads to here by default.

Note: You can of course use your own user search path and set the path deken 
downloads to, in which case the following info still applies.

You can now find externals in this folder using [declare]. If you have an 
external called "extname" in the following folder:

~/Documents/Pd/externals/extname

It should be found by Pd with: [declare -path extname -lib extname]

The -path argument specifies search paths while -lib specifies a location to 
try to load compiled externals, so some externals may require both while 
abstraction-only externals should only require -path. More complicated 
externals like Gem which also need to load addition dynamic libs should also 
work, although may require additional steps / folder placement.

Note: once compiled externals are found and loaded, they cannot be unloaded or 
reloaded.

Also, without using [declare], objects can be found in the user search paths 
via prepending the external's folder name: 

[extname/foobar]

Last, if the path given to declare starts with a . or .. (ie. it's a relative 
path), the search mechanism only looks *relative* to the patch and does not 
look in further user search or standard paths. This should help encapsulation 
of certain projects.

[declare -path ./extname]

> On Feb 25, 2021, at 12:15 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 15:55:06 +
> From: Philip Stone mailto:pkst...@ucdavis.edu>>
> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at " 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] detect dependencies from patch
> Message-ID:
>   
>   
> >
>   
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> I have to say that I have gotten kind of lost in the discussions about 
> loading and declaring external libraries. I would like to embrace the current 
> best practices, but don?t have a solid overview of the whole. Would anybody 
> be willing to write up a summary?
> 
> I think it would be an invaluable resource for new users (as well as old, 
> like  me!)
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Phil Stone
> Davis, CA

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Re: [PD] list item picker widget - [declare] lib paths

[Dan Wilcox]

In some recent and proposed updates to declare and the loader, the movement is 
toward being able to load both compiled and abstraction libraries without 
having to use both -lib & -path, but we are not there yet:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/440 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/440>

In many ways, -stdpath and -stdlib is legacy but of course will most likely not 
be removed or explicitly deprecated unless there is a real need. It is however 
highly encouraged *not* to use them, ie. no longer having users manage stuff 
inside the macOS Pd .app bundle. In your case with netpd and bundled resources, 
then I imagine they are still quite useful. :)

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 2:37 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 14:37:19 +0100
> From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] list item picker widget - [declare] lib paths
> Message-ID:  <mailto:f592ac96dd0de66fa4679b609eb2e7096e9e2864.ca...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Thanks for the full picture, Dan.
> 
> I guess the main point is that when Pd users go along the defaults,
> they need patches to use -path and -lib. 
> 
> Even more, -lib and -path _also_ work for stuff installed in any of the
> standard search paths like /extra. Assuming that people use a
> recent version of Pd, there can be no harm in using -lib and -path.
> They cover more use cases. Thus, I'd say using -lib and -path should be
> considered the canonical way of loading libraries.
> 
> Roman


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] list item picker widget - [declare] lib paths

[Dan Wilcox]

I don't know if this is purely "canonical", but this is how it works:

The Document's path was added to provide a default location for deken to 
download externals, ~/Documents/Pd. It is purely optional but builds on the 
existing search path functionality. The idea is help beginners manage search 
paths and move away from installing stuff to extra or ~/pd-externals, etc. It 
is implemented as a gui plugin which is included with Pd. The source is in the 
Pd tcl folder.

If the Documents path is used, an "externals" subfolder is created and added to 
the search paths, so installing something via deken, should only require 
[declare] -path and/or -lib for usage. Basically, if an abstraction-only 
library is in ~/Documents/Pd/externals ala ~/Documents/Pd/externals/extname, 
then it should be found with [declare -path extname] assuming the user is using 
the Documents path *and* has installed the "extname" external to the default 
location via deken. You can, of course, manually add external folders as well.

Additionally, you can restrict declare to only look in relative paths when 
adding folders relative to a patch by prepending  . or .. to the beginning, ie 
[declare -path ./extname] will only look for a folder named "extname" in the 
same folder as the patch, without looking in any of the user or "standard" 
search paths.

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 10:33:52 +0100
> From: João Pais mailto:jmmmp...@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] list item picker widget - [declare] lib paths
> Message-ID:  <mailto:e362b696-301a-ee0d-e4d9-a5db6ee32...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
>>> I'm not quite sure what the canonical declaration style is, -lib/-
>>> path or -stdlib/-stdpath. I guess the former will work better for
>>> Pd's own default setup.
>> I should say this is true since 0.50 or so. Before that, -stdlib/-
>> stdpath was the common thing to use.
> What would be then the canonical now, no "-std"? I can change that 
> easily in my patches, but would be good to have it confirmed.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] unicode symbols and Pd

[Dan Wilcox]

(resend with correct subject line)

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> 
>> so, for a first attempt, I'd tell linux users only to "hey, install this
>> yourselves", they'll even be happy :)
> 
> Yes. This is simpler by far.
> 
> Note: it was suggested in another mail to use the PdFontLoader which is a 
> workaround for loading local fonts on Windows. This would work for within a 
> GUI plugin, no external required, but I would not assume the font loader and 
> it's calling style will stay consistent as it's not really a "public API" 
> part of there GUI. I would personally try a GUI plugin first which just runs 
> the TK calls to load whatever font you want, then it could be used either by 
> retrieving the font instance or via the font-family name. After that, 
> however, you don't really have a way too *use* it directly unless you are 
> sending actual Tcl strings around... 
> 
>> windows is pretty covered and we can see if we can adapt mac to load an
>> external that can read a key inside a given Info.plist
> 
> Nope. This will not work. It's only a convenience when the app bundle is 
> started and not a dynamic option which can be changed or invoked after the 
> app is running.
> 
>>> The main patch canvas uses the single font specified by -font-face when
>>> rendering. The IEM GUI object labels have 3 font options, but none are
>>> settable, ie. replace or add a new option. It would probably be difficult
>>> to modify the canvas to work with "rich text" where fonts and styles could
>>> be mixed and matched. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'm not sure if anyone
>>> has tried with the Tk GUI itself, more probably with one of the forks.
>>> 
>> 
>> yeah, rich text and multiple fonts would be nice to design documentation,
>> but something related to this is happening, where if you have unicode
>> glyphs installed in your system, Pd seems to find them even though they're
>> not in DJVSM
> 
> In the end, you still have the same problem: providing *local* fonts, not 
> installed on the system, to Pd and "rich text" which is harder as I don't 
> believe Tk has this as a built in option, unique southing like macOS's Cocoa 
> API NSTextView which supports attributed strings.
> 
> Honestly, this is a bunch of extra work to provide a small set of symbols 
> whereas there are quire a number of other issues which, I feel, take higher 
> priority of messaging/.development bandwidth.
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 191, Issue 33

[Dan Wilcox]

> so, for a first attempt, I'd tell linux users only to "hey, install this
> yourselves", they'll even be happy :)

Yes. This is simpler by far.

Note: it was suggested in another mail to use the PdFontLoader which is a 
workaround for loading local fonts on Windows. This would work for within a GUI 
plugin, no external required, but I would not assume the font loader and it's 
calling style will stay consistent as it's not really a "public API" part of 
there GUI. I would personally try a GUI plugin first which just runs the TK 
calls to load whatever font you want, then it could be used either by 
retrieving the font instance or via the font-family name. After that, however, 
you don't really have a way too *use* it directly unless you are sending actual 
Tcl strings around... 

> windows is pretty covered and we can see if we can adapt mac to load an
> external that can read a key inside a given Info.plist

Nope. This will not work. It's only a convenience when the app bundle is 
started and not a dynamic option which can be changed or invoked after the app 
is running.

>> The main patch canvas uses the single font specified by -font-face when
>> rendering. The IEM GUI object labels have 3 font options, but none are
>> settable, ie. replace or add a new option. It would probably be difficult
>> to modify the canvas to work with "rich text" where fonts and styles could
>> be mixed and matched. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'm not sure if anyone
>> has tried with the Tk GUI itself, more probably with one of the forks.
>> 
> 
> yeah, rich text and multiple fonts would be nice to design documentation,
> but something related to this is happening, where if you have unicode
> glyphs installed in your system, Pd seems to find them even though they're
> not in DJVSM

In the end, you still have the same problem: providing *local* fonts, not 
installed on the system, to Pd and "rich text" which is harder as I don't 
believe Tk has this as a built in option, unique southing like macOS's Cocoa 
API NSTextView which supports attributed strings.

Honestly, this is a bunch of extra work to provide a small set of symbols 
whereas there are quire a number of other issues which, I feel, take higher 
priority of messaging/.development bandwidth.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] unicode symbols and Pd

[Dan Wilcox]

> yeah, rich text and multiple fonts would be nice to design documentation, but 
> something related to this is happening, where if you have unicode glyphs 
> installed in your system, Pd seems to find them even though they're not in 
> DJVSM

I think this is covered by font caching. The system loads fonts it uses for the 
native UI and maybe a couple others for extra symbols, language, etc by 
default. Then when you ask for an extra symbol, you can get it even if it's not 
in the font family you are using.

If you use the font file directly, ie. for use in GEM, then you only get what's 
in the font file as there is no connection to the system in this regard. To get 
the required symbol coverage, then you need to use multiple fonts manually or a 
font with all symbols built-in.

For more:

http://www.unifoundry.com <http://www.unifoundry.com/> (and no, I don't 
recommend Unifont as a Pd requirement)

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/34732718/why-isnt-there-a-font-that-contains-all-unicode-glyphs
 
<https://stackoverflow.com/questions/34732718/why-isnt-there-a-font-that-contains-all-unicode-glyphs>


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] OSC problem

[Dan Wilcox]

Pd 0.51 has the networking updates. You can tell if [netreceive] supports the 
-f flag.

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 2:16 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 05:16:11 -0800
> From: "Scott R. Looney"  <mailto:scottrloo...@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] OSC problem
> Message-ID:
><mailto:caao07q1hcwok1adsff4ueggkb8br1idvq8njdhpdbtmnkpk...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> hi Dan - re netreceive - i have not updated the patch on the OSC receiving
> front for some time. i started making this patch in late 2018 i believe and
> after a lot of testing this is what worked and has worked since from Unity
> to PD. i'm using .50.0 at  the moment. i'd be happy to do netreceive
> testing some more. it's an easy substitute. what version would you want me
> to test?
> 
> best,
> scott


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] OSC problem

[Dan Wilcox]

Csaba:

Check out the mrpeach-to-vanilla-osc.pad here: 
https://github.com/danomatika/BangYourHead/tree/master/6.Communication 
<https://github.com/danomatika/BangYourHead/tree/master/6.Communication>

It has a basic overview on sending/receiving OSC in Pd vanilla as well as a 
small cheatsheet when coming from the mrpeach objects.

In my usage, I have not run into any major issues with Pd's vanilla OSC 
handling but a couple of  come to mind:

* If you are sending arguments with your message, it may help to send them 
explicitly,

ie. (pseudo code)

msg = newOSCMessage("/some/address")
msg.addFloat(123)

* Avoid encoding numeral indices in the address, if possible. I prefer to make 
indices the first argument, so:

/trigger0/0 could be /trigger 0 0 where the "0" index is the first argument 
and the second argument would be the state

The issue is that when [oscparse] parses the message, it breaks it into a list. 
Any parts of the address are sent as symbols so matching to "0" index in 
"/trigger0/0" address has to be matched as a symbol and not a float in pd.

Example, parsing /trigger0/0 -> results in a list:

symbol: "trigger0"
symbol: "0"

Whereas parsing /trigger0 0 -> results in a list

symbol: "trigger0"
float: 0

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 11:47 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> hi Csaba - i have done a fair amount of work with OSC in Unity and i highly
> recommend the extOSC plugin for this (it's free).
> https://github.com/Iam1337/extOSC <https://github.com/Iam1337/extOSC>

I agree. Don't roll your own unless you're familiar with OSC and fiddling with 
networking bytes.

Scott:

> homemade OSC sounds cool but there are a lot of flavors and not all of them
> play well with PD. i tried a number of options and what worked on receive
> in PD was the following:
> 
> [iemnet/udpreceive] (with the port set at loadbang) -> [oscparse] - [list
> trim] and then [route] to send it places.
> 

I'd be curious to know why [netreceive] didn't work for you in your case. We 
recently did an overhaul of all the networking, so I imagine the vanilla 
[netreceive] may work for you now. If there is a bug, it would be good to know 
about it...


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Dan Wilcox]

As an aside: Don't forget that the absence of a license does not make the work 
explicitly "free for all", quite the opposite:

https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/ 
<https://choosealicense.com/no-permission/>

The chances of the original authoring coming back and asking for a takedown etc 
are usually low for this kind of thing, but still better to go ahead and get a 
them to set a minimal license which you can then use with the project to carry 
it forward.

We recently had a project for work using a 3rd party library form GitHub and 
asked the author to add a license so we could, in the end, safely use it in a 
soon-to-be release public project.

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 3:01 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Anyway, usually people provide the source code with a license that makes it
> clear what you can do or not, but this repository has NO LICENSE... this is
> probably because the author didn't care much on how to license it and I bet
> it's because he doesn't care much about what people will do with it.
> Licenses are useful to make restrictions, but not allowing one to provide a
> build for 64 bits would be sort of insane in the open source world.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?

[Dan Wilcox]

64-bit Pd works fine on macOS 11 (Big Sur). As far as I recall, all of the 
external builds from Pd-extended were compiled as "fat libs" with ppc, 32, & 64 
bit intel.

On a related note:

The bigger move is to support Apple's new arm64 architecture (currently the M1 
cpu). I have a new MBP with an M1 and Pd builds fine. The current issue is that 
building the custom Tcl/Tk we need for macOS has issues and we are waiting for 
them to be fixed upstream by the Tk devs. Externals will need to be recompiled 
to support the new arm64 architecture and this can also be done with "fat libs" 
that can support both x86_64 (Intel) and arm64. For now, running the Pd 64-bit 
Intel build works fine, more or less seamlessly via Rosetta 2.

> On Feb 6, 2021, at 4:12 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2021 12:11:58 -0300
> From: Alexandre Torres Porres mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
> To: Jean-Marie Adrien  <mailto:jm.adrien@gmail.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] who still needs Pd 32 bits for macOS and why?
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CAEAsFmjqaQhBLaha2x4evsqwB1=svykkz2swwetwqhtyupn...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Em sáb., 6 de fev. de 2021 às 11:53, Jean-Marie Adrien <
> jm.adrien@gmail.com <mailto:jm.adrien@gmail.com>> escreveu:
> 
>> What about big sur ?
> 
> 
> I installed it just to test, I don't really use it, but I could install Pd
> and also get an old library like  "unauthorized" from deken and it worked.
> I tested the "grid" GUI external and it was fine. So I guess it all should
> just work as well.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Patch change via midi

[Dan Wilcox]

Ah yes, Christof is right.

> On Jan 23, 2021, at 11:06 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 2021 11:06:48 +0100
> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Patch change via midi
> Message-ID: <1fb289ac-d3ed-291b-b1e3-392253415...@christofressi.com 
> <mailto:1fb289ac-d3ed-291b-b1e3-392253415...@christofressi.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> 
>> use [switch~ 1] 
> This rather sets the block size to 1 :-) You have to send a [1( message 
> with [loadbang] instead.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Patch change via midi

[Dan Wilcox]

Also, if you want to start the subpatch enabled, use [switch~ 1] 

> On Jan 23, 2021, at 1:35 AM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> Try [switch~] to turn off dsp in the subpatch(es) ala:
> 
> [ 0 (
> |
> [switch~]
> 
> You might need to add a small delay and ramp to avoid clicking.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] Patch change via midi

[Dan Wilcox]

Try [switch~] to turn off dsp in the subpatch(es) ala:

[ 0 (
|
[switch~]

You might need to add a small delay and ramp to avoid clicking.

> On Jan 23, 2021, at 12:19 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 15:11:22 -0800
> From: Andrew Lyons mailto:tstext...@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] Patch change via midi
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CAF3KZase-CZqiCUBykKHLNUskAO2M+a0q=h74udm3peh7sx...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I have a headless raspberry pi that boots into a PD patch I created. (I
> control it with a midi wind controller and an FCB 1010 midi foot
> controller.) I have observed that bypassing certain sections of the patch
> with MIDI signals generated by the foot pedal board does not actually stop
> those sections of the patch from processing, and using CPU bandwidth.
> 
> I was wondering if it was possible to cease processing sections of a patch
> somehow? Maybe by stopping a sub-process or something? Alternatively, I was
> wondering if it was possible to load a different patch upon input of a
> certain midi program change?
> 
> Thanks!


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] unicode symbols and Pd

[Dan Wilcox]

Short answer: IOhannes is right. If you want to use a special font, ask the 
users to install it on their system, then (re)start Pd with -font-face 
FONTNAME. You could include a ttf file with your project's download and some 
instructions on how to set things up but you can't pass in a .ttf and have Pd 
load & use it.

Long answer:

To summarize IOhannes: the fonts available to Pd are those installed on your 
system and found by the OS. Then you choose the font by the name the system 
uses to find it which is usually defined in the font file then the system loads 
it. If there is confusing, it may be coming from the fact that we do include 
the .ttf files for Windows and macOS, but this is misleading as they are still 
handled by the system (see below).

The Pd GUI does not load a font file directly (from ttf, otf, etc), and this is 
good, as things like font caching are good to have, especially when it's 
handled by the system for you.

As mentioned in the fonts/README.txt in the Pd sources, DejaVu Sans Mono is now 
standard on most platforms (Menlo is a very close replacement on macOS for now) 
because:

* Linux: the font is a dependency, ie. installing pd via apt-get also installs 
DVSM

* Windows: the font file itself is shipped with Pd and loaded into Tk using a 
custom Tcl extension written in C which calls the Windows API to have the 
system load the font file and make it available, this way people don't have to 
manually install DVSM to their system when using Pd

* macOS: the font file itself is shipped within the Pd .app bundle and the 
system reads a key inside the Info.plist which tells it to find and load that 
file when the Pd .app is opened.

The "safe fonts" like Courier, Times, etc are only so in that there is a pretty 
good change they will be installed on most systems by default.

The main patch canvas uses the single font specified by -font-face when 
rendering. The IEM GUI object labels have 3 font options, but none are 
settable, ie. replace or add a new option. It would probably be difficult to 
modify the canvas to work with "rich text" where fonts and styles could be 
mixed and matched. Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I'm not sure if anyone has 
tried with the Tk GUI itself, more probably with one of the forks.

> On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 18 Jan 2021 21:43:57 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmölnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] unicode symbols and Pd
> Message-ID:  <mailto:f9aa55ff-e583-4ee6-80f2-846270b2b...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Am 18. Jänner 2021 20:24:27 MEZ schrieb Alexandre Torres Porres 
> mailto:por...@gmail.com>>:
>> Em dom., 17 de jan. de 2021 às 23:12, Alexandre Torres Porres <
>> por...@gmail.com <mailto:por...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
>> 
>> 
>> Ok, I know it's coming from somewhere else, and that's not the point.
>> Maybe a better question is to just make sure that this indeed happens
>> (that
>> the Pd will look elsewhere in your fonts to see if you have a bass
>> clef or
>> whatever else is missing in DejaVu). I
> 
> Pd doesn't do anything like that.
> in fact, most applications don't do anything like that.
> fonts are a *hard* problem, that's why these problems are typically solved 
> centrally (on  the toolkit level (eg Tcl/Tk) or even lower).
> 
> there are of course exceptions to this: eg Gem handles the fonts on its own 
> (using a library; I'm not crazy enough attempting to handle fonts myself).
> 
> as a rule of thumb: if you don't specify the font-file directly (eg 
> `/path/to/DejaVuSans-Mono.ttl`) but rather the font name (eg "DejaVu Sans 
> Mono"), then you are working with a high level interface that will use 
> multiple fonts to render a glyph.

Well, this 

> price question: when selecting a font for Pd (using the `-font-face` cmdline 
> option), do you specify the font by filename, or by the font-name?
> 
> 
> mfg.hft.fsl
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] New PdDroidParty build

[Dan Wilcox]

To quickly piggy-back off this message for mobile Pd users:

I am also working on and off on PdParty 1.3 which addresses a number of issues 
as well. Beta release ETA probably a few weeks, depending on time.

> On Jan 15, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 08:54:56 +0800
> From: Chris McCormick mailto:ch...@mccormick.cx>>
> To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>" 
> mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] New PdDroidParty build
> Message-ID: <9f8b0f88-cc11-c369-28bc-7d8cab2d5...@mccormick.cx 
> <mailto:9f8b0f88-cc11-c369-28bc-7d8cab2d5...@mccormick.cx>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> There is a new build of PdDroidParty up on the website:
> 
> https://droidparty.net/downloads <https://droidparty.net/downloads>
> 
> This fixes a bunch of lingering bugs and usability issues that were 
> preventing it from running on newer phones.
> 
> I'm tracking development of PdDroidParty on this project board: 
> https://github.com/chr15m/PdDroidParty/projects/2 
> <https://github.com/chr15m/PdDroidParty/projects/2>
> 
> I also gave the website a bit of a refresh to make it easier to read, 
> tidied up the documentation, etc.
> 
> I am also working on getting a build up on Google Play to make it easier 
> for beginners to install the app.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] set screen resolution from within Pd (Linux)

[Dan Wilcox]

(I am usually not one to try to do *everything* in Pd...)

Another option is to create a small shell script which calls the xrandr line 
along with starting Pd and the project's main patch, assuming it's for an 
installation.. If you need to start Pd first, then probably add a small sleep 
after to give it time to open the windows.

> On Jan 12, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2021 10:22:34 +0100
> From: Roman Haefeli mailto:reduz...@gmail.com>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] set screen resolution from within Pd (Linux)
> Message-ID:  <mailto:da97c94252f08a1c61dc1bf371902622a88e9773.ca...@gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Ingo
> 
> On Tue, 2021-01-12 at 05:46 +0100, Ingo wrote:
> 
>> Is it possible to set the screen resolution from within Pd in Debian
>> (with
>> or without externals)?
> 
> Yes.
> 
>> If yes how?
> 
> With something like (untested example specific to my setup):
> 
> [xrandr --output eDP-1 --mode "1920x1080_60.00"(
> |
> [ggee/shell]


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] Pd and sounds are running but windows are blank

[Dan Wilcox]

Do *not* install Pd to a system path unless you are using a newer version of 
Tcl/Tk as the included 8.5.9 is quite broken: blank windows, etc. As noted in 
INSTALL.txt:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/INSTALL.txt#L268 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/INSTALL.txt#L268>

I know this is tempting, especially for those coming from Linux, but there are 
a number of issues with using Pd on macOS like this, including application 
defaults keys not working as launching a Tk script for the command line will 
not connect it to app bundle plist settings which are included within a Pd 
.app, etc. If you want to invoke Pd on the command line, I recommend using a 
shell alias as documented in INSTALL.txt as well.

The safest bet is to build a Pd .app using "make app" although I'm not sure if 
the included pre-build Tcl/Tk Wish .app is up to date with Miller's releases 
yet:

make
make app

This results in a Pd-0.51-4.app in the main Pd source tree. I'd recommend 
right-clicking and renaming it to "Pd-0.51-4-double.app" if you have multiple 
versions on the same machine.

Also, the deprecation warning is from the system (macOS) and not from Pd. It 
basically means that Apple will remove the included Tcl/Tk from macOS in the 
future. Note: It is still shipped with macOS 11 but is unfortunately the broken 
8.5.9 version.

> On Jan 11, 2021, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2021 17:18:24 +0100
> From: Dario Sanfilippo  <mailto:sanfilippo.da...@gmail.com>>
> To: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> Cc: Pd-List mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd and sounds are running but windows are blank
> Message-ID:
><mailto:calwgshi27mchrfcxsts06bwh4k1jpave_+clwdxf5d8lohv...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> My apologies, Christof, I forgot. :-)
> 
> That's right, I'm on 10.15.7. My Tclsh version is 8.5.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dario
> 
> On Sun, 10 Jan 2021 at 16:26, Christof Ressi  <mailto:i...@christofressi.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> it always helps to mention the OS ;-) I assume you're on macOS?
>> 
>> Christof
>> On 10.01.2021 15:27, Dario Sanfilippo wrote:
>> 
>> Hello, list.
>> 
>> I'm giving a try to Pd double precision; I installed .51-4 using the
>> autotools.
>> 
>> My patch is running and producing signals, although all windows are blank.
>> If I right-click, I can open the abstractions, blank again. I see a
>> deprecation warning about Tk, any clue what the issue could be?
>> 
>> Thanks for your help.
>> 
>> --
>> Dr Dario Sanfilippo
>> http://dariosanfilippo.com <http://dariosanfilippo.com/>
>> 
>> ___pd-l...@lists.iem.at 
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Re: [PD] Menlo in MacOS X

[Dan Wilcox]

Fixed in the develop branch via:

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/0c13ecf3c89acaa212209dbe47d27fe06c0dec3c
 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/0c13ecf3c89acaa212209dbe47d27fe06c0dec3c>

I found that only Menlo-Regular needs to be set as Menlo-Bold is set correctly, 
ie. when -font-weight bold is used.

> On Jan 8, 2021, at 12:43 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> It's an issue with Tk where the font name used in the output doesn't match 
> that used by Postscript. I added a fix for this for DejaVu Sans Mono some 
> years ago, but the quick change to Menlo missed this. I will add a check for 
> Menlo with the find-replace code.
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 11:34 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> 
>> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 07:17:00 +0100
>> From: IOhannes m zmölnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
>> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
>> Subject: Re: [PD] Menlo in MacOS X
>> Message-ID: > <mailto:f247b545-1ca1-4183-aefb-a556aacb8...@iem.at>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>> 
>> Am 8. Jänner 2021 02:41:10 MEZ schrieb "Julián Villegas" 
>> mailto:villegas.jul...@gmail.com>>:
>>> 
>>> For example, would this be worth of opening an issue in
>>> GitHub? 
>> 
>> no.
>> i dont think its a "bug" in Pd.
>> 
>> Pd tries to use "Menlo" on macOS, because it fixes a couple of issues.
>> if that font cannot be found, the font engine of your system will 
>> automatically use a similar font, eg "Courier".
>> the same happens with ghostscript.
> 

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Re: [PD] Menlo in MacOS X

[Dan Wilcox]

It's an issue with Tk where the font name used in the output doesn't match that 
used by Postscript. I added a fix for this for DejaVu Sans Mono some years ago, 
but the quick change to Menlo missed this. I will add a check for Menlo with 
the find-replace code.

> On Jan 8, 2021, at 11:34 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Fri, 08 Jan 2021 07:17:00 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmölnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> Subject: Re: [PD] Menlo in MacOS X
> Message-ID:  >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Am 8. Jänner 2021 02:41:10 MEZ schrieb "Julián Villegas" 
> mailto:villegas.jul...@gmail.com>>:
>> 
>> For example, would this be worth of opening an issue in
>> GitHub? 
> 
> no.
> i dont think its a "bug" in Pd.
> 
> Pd tries to use "Menlo" on macOS, because it fixes a couple of issues.
> if that font cannot be found, the font engine of your system will 
> automatically use a similar font, eg "Courier".
> the same happens with ghostscript.

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Re: [PD] Menlo in MacOS X

[Dan Wilcox]

You can fix it in tcl/pd_menucommands.tcl by either trying the -fontmap option 
or changing the find-replace from "DejaVuSansMono" to "MenloRegular"

https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/tcl/pd_menucommands.tcl#L37 


Right-click on the Pd-###.app and choose "Show package contents." The tcl 
scripts are in Contents/Resources/tcl. Edit the file and save, then (re)start 
the app to see any changes. Let us know what works.

> On Jan 8, 2021, at 2:41 AM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2021 10:41:10 +0900
> From: Julián Villegas  >
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at 
> Subject: [PD] Menlo in MacOS X
> Message-ID:  >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I use the print option of Pd to create PS files that I then convert to PDF 
> when I need to share a program in a presentation, paper, etc. I use Preview 
> most of the time, but I have also used Ghostscript for this process too. No 
> matter what tool I use, there’s always an error saying that the Menlo font 
> file was not found and the resulting PDF is rendered with Courier fonts. 
> 
> By looking at the Font Book, I know that the Postcript name of this font is 
> “Menlo-Regular” so what I’m currently doing is to edit the ps file and 
> replacing all instances of “Menlo” by “Menlo-Regular.” After saving it, I can 
> then open it in whatever tool and the PDF is rendered with the intended font. 
> 
> I could keep doing this, but it’s rather a hassle to add this extra editing 
> step to the process. Is there any other way to fix this problem? For example, 
> would this be worth of opening an issue in GitHub? 
> 
> Thanks for the help, and have a nice weekend,
> 
> Julian.

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Re: [PD] linking libs with pd-lib-builder (was Re: fluid~)

[Dan Wilcox]

> Em sáb., 12 de dez. de 2020 às 08:17, Christof Ressi  <mailto:i...@christofressi.com>> escreveu:
> Maybe it's helpful to look at pd-lib-builder, since it has an option to build 
> a helper shared library.
> 
> Yup, I assumed pd-lib-builder could help us with things like that ;)

I don't think helper libraries are needed here, that's mainly a local library 
that's linked from the projects sources files and not necessarily another 
project. I've used a helper library for some projects where you have two 
executables which share some of the same classes, for instance. 

 have only used them for building another project's sources in Pd actually, not 
port midi and port audio, mainly to avoid their relatively slowly maintained 
configure scripts. 

> Em sáb., 12 de dez. de 2020 às 10:27, Dan Wilcox  <mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>> escreveu:
>> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
>> macOS: -install_name @loader_path/$(shared.lib)
> 
> I think this line basically says "when loading this dylib, try looking in the 
> same folder." This would be ideal as it means the libfluidsynth.dylib just 
> needs to sit next to fluid~.pd_darwin.
> 
> That also works for me, but I'd still prefer to generate a single larger 
> binary with the lib included. Can we do that with pd-lib-builder?

Just run install_name_tool after building with the relevant options and files, 
probably via a secondary makefile target. You may need to read up on how 
makefiles work and the pd-lib-build docs on how the build steps are performed 
to find the right place to add it.*

> One way or another, I'd need to see an example of a project that does this 
> and makes it work so I can better understand and copy the method. As it is, I 
> only have an idea that it provides a solution, but not really how.

* see above


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
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Re: [PD] "make app" for vanilla?

[Dan Wilcox]

> On Jan 2, 2021, at 6:26 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2021 17:42:54 +0100
> From: Christof Ressi mailto:i...@christofressi.com>>
> You can always distribute Pd along your project and have a simple 
> top-level shell script resp. batch script which opens your main patch 
> with the bundled Pd version. Give the script a nice icon and off you go :-)

This is mainly what I do and would be my first suggestion as well.

> The downside is that on Windows and macOS you get a visible terminal 
> window, but there are workarounds.

This is less of a problem if it's for an installation or specific users.

> I did a quick search and found the following for macOS:
> 
> https://sveinbjorn.org/platypus <https://sveinbjorn.org/platypus>

I don't know about this tool, but I imagine it does the same as the 
mac/osx-app.sh script included with the Pd sources. I wrote that script heavily 
borrowing from a script of the same name written for the Inkscape project.

Alex: If the question is really "hey, can we have that 'make an app' option 
that Pd-extended had?" then it perhaps makes sense to first look at the code in 
Pd-extended which did this action:

https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/pd_menucommands.tcl#l313
 
<https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/pd_menucommands.tcl#l313>

which calls

https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/makeapp.tcl 
<https://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/pd-extended/ci/master/tree/tcl/makeapp.tcl>

I imagine it could be ported to a gui plugin that would create a standalone 
"app" using the version of Pd and the current platform. As Christof mentions, 
it's basically copying the Pd install into a new folder and renaming some 
stuff. For Mac, that folder is the .app bundle and follows a rather strict 
layout. This could reasonably be extended for Windows and Linux.


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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Re: [PD] apple m1

[Dan Wilcox]

The quick answer is no. Building pd works fine but building a native macOS 
arm64 Tcl/Tk Wish.app currently fails.

I opened an issues with my notes on this so far here: 
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1251 
<https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/issues/1251>

> On Dec 29, 2020, at 2:57 PM, Dan Wilcox  wrote:
> 
> I have one as well and plan to update the build system for Mac arm64. I just 
> have to finish currently open projects on the old machine, then I can move 
> stuff over...
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2020, at 10:49 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
>> <mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:30:31 +0100
>> From: iftah gabbai mailto:ift@gmail.com>>
>> To: Pd-List mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>> Subject: [PD] apple m1
>> Message-ID:
>>  > <mailto:CA+d=bQ+YF=r0zq9uty5car8msosabdmxsjsetlruezq2v0g...@mail.gmail.com>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> hello all, just got a new silicone macbook pro, pd 0.51.3 seems to run just
>> fine thru rossetta 2.0, everything is very snappy so no complains,  however
>> i wonder if anyone attempted to compile it natively?
>> 
>> best
> 
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>
> 
> 
> 

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[PD] libpd 0.12.0

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

libpd 0.12.0 is now out. Better late than never.

https://github.com/libpd/libpd <https://github.com/libpd/libpd>

Important changes are:

* updated to pd vanilla 0.51-4
* switched pure-data submodule to github

* Makefile: added FAT_LIB option to build universal "fat" libs on macOS

* C: fleshed out headers with full documentation comments
* C: added libpd_resize_array()
* C: added libpd_process_raw_short() & libpd_process_raw_double() (Thomas Mayer)

* Java: fixed zip path traversal vulnerability which was causing a Google Play 
security alert (Ragu Pattabi)

* ObjC overhaul:
  - updated min deployment target to iOS 9
  - fixed sample rate handling on newer devices, now independent of hardware
  - added IO buffering when audio unit sample rate conversion is being performed
  - added new PdAudioController configure methods to specify separate number of 
input and output channels
  - added easy to use PdAudioController audio session category options 
properties, ie. Bluetooth, AirPlay, etc

* C#: added instance based API (Thomas Mayer)

* Python: basic syntax updates for Python 3

See the changelog for the full list: 
https://github.com/libpd/libpd/blob/0.12.0/CHANGES.txt 
<https://github.com/libpd/libpd/blob/0.12.0/CHANGES.txt>


Dan Wilcox
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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.51-4 released

[Dan Wilcox]

Thanks Miller. The 64-bit build for newer systems is working fine for me on 
10.14 (Intel) and 11.1 (M1 arm).

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:00 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2020 16:58:28 -0800
> From: Miller Puckette via Pd-announce  <mailto:pd-annou...@lists.iem.at>>
> To: pd-annou...@iem.at <mailto:pd-annou...@iem.at>
> Cc: Miller Puckette mailto:m...@ucsd.edu>>
> Subject: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.51-4 released
> Message-ID: <20201228005828.ga1217...@ucsd.edu 
> <mailto:20201228005828.ga1217...@ucsd.edu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> To Pd announce:
> 
> Pd version 0.51-4 is available from http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm 
> <http://msp.ucsd.edu/software.htm>
> or (source only) via github: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data 
> <https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data>.
> 
> cheers
> Miller


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] apple m1

[Dan Wilcox]

I have one as well and plan to update the build system for Mac arm64. I just 
have to finish currently open projects on the old machine, then I can move 
stuff over...

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 10:49 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2020 17:30:31 +0100
> From: iftah gabbai mailto:ift@gmail.com>>
> To: Pd-List mailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
> Subject: [PD] apple m1
> Message-ID:
><mailto:CA+d=bQ+YF=r0zq9uty5car8msosabdmxsjsetlruezq2v0g...@mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> hello all, just got a new silicone macbook pro, pd 0.51.3 seems to run just
> fine thru rossetta 2.0, everything is very snappy so no complains,  however
> i wonder if anyone attempted to compile it natively?
> 
> best


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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[PD] PdParty 1.3.0 coming

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

For people using PdParty on iOS, I am working on a new version which brings 
improvements to audio handling (samplerates really work, multi i/o, bluetooth, 
etc), Files App and Open With... file fixes, and various bug fixes. This should 
be ready when Pd 0.51-4 and libpd 0.12 are finalized.

If anyone has additional bugs or ideas, please respond here or (better) on 
Github if you have an account: https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty/issues 
<https://github.com/danomatika/PdParty/issues>

Also, if you want to help beta test and have not done so in the pass, send me a 
private email with the email address you use with your AppleID and I will add 
you to the testers list.

--------
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd's jack outputs are numbered from zero onwards?

[Dan Wilcox]

I'd say that good enough communication would be enough but "ouput0" -> 
"output_1" sounds fine as well, especially as it matches an existing convention.

> On Dec 18, 2020, at 9:17 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2020 21:17:02 +0100
> From: IOhannes m zmölnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
> To: pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd's jack outputs are numbered from zero onwards?
> Message-ID:  <mailto:c6e151a0-f86f-5703-6567-4b5afa6bc...@iem.at>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> On 12/18/20 9:06 PM, Peter P. wrote:
>> * IOhannes m zmölnig mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>> [2020-12-18 
>> 20:52]:
>>> On 12/18/20 8:40 PM, Peter P. wrote:
>>>> Hi list,
>>>> 
>>>> just discovered that Pd's jack audio ouput ports are numbered from zero
>>>> onwards. Is this very intentional?
>>> 
>>> it's been on my todo-list for ages to fix this.
>> Great, good to hear! Thanks IO!
> 
> while fixing the issue is trivial, i wonder what's the best way to proceed.
> simply changing the port-names from "input0" to "input1" will probably 
> break all existing auto connection-setups (e.g. qjackctl patchbays).
> 
> currently they will do something like:
>  "puredata:output1 -> system:capture_0"
> 
> if we just renumber the ports, this will *certainly* introduce 
> off-by-one errors (e.g. have movie dialoge come out of the sub woofer).
> 
> so we probably should name the ports slightly different, so that 
> "output0" becomes "output_1".
> 
> (the ALSA backend of jack uses underscores as a separator; but Ardour 
> (somewhat canonical) uses spaces - though i'd rather avoid that)
> 
> what do you think.
> 
> 
> famdsr
> IOhannes


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd 0.51-4-test1 with macOS scrollbar fix

[Dan Wilcox]

If you don't notice a problem, there isn't one. :) What macOS version are you 
using? 10.15?

> On Dec 17, 2020, at 4:34 PM, Philip Stone  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dan,
>  
> I’m not too familiar with the tabbed windows feature – never even knew it was 
> there! But it appears to work well. What is the ‘mouse offset’ problem? As 
> far as I can tell, the mouse/pointer is behaving correctly, in full-screen 
> windows, tabbed windows, and otherwise. What should I look for specifically?
>  
>  
> Phil
>  
> From: Dan Wilcox 
> Date: Thursday, December 17, 2020 at 3:52 AM
> To: Philip Stone 
> Cc: ffdd cchh , Miller Puckette , 
> Pd-List 
> Subject: Re: [PD] Pd 0.51-4-test1 with macOS scrollbar fix
> 
> Howdy all,
>  
> While we are at this, can you macOS users check if the mouse offset is fixed 
> for fullscreen windows? Also the same for tabbed windows, ie. Window -> Show 
> Tab Bar which allows you to drag and move Pd windows to a single tabbed 
> window. We don't explicitly support this in the Pd GUI, but it *seems* to 
> work with my build at least, including the mouse offset.
>  
> Both fullscreen and tabbed windows seem to be working well with my builds, 
> less so with Miller's. I think this is due to the fact that I'm building the 
> Wish.app on a much newer system, so we may be at a turning point to where we 
> need separate builds for macOS 10.9 or 10.10+. But I may be wrong about this, 
> having jumped back and forth so much recently...
>  
> Here is my latest build: Pd-0.51-4-macupdates2.zip 
> <http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.51-4-macupdates2.zip>
>  
> Further, testing on macOS 11 with my builds looks good. There are a couple 
> tweaks to add, but it basically works.
>  
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>



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Re: [PD] Pd 0.51-4-test1 with macOS scrollbar fix

[Dan Wilcox]

Howdy all,

While we are at this, can you macOS users check if the mouse offset is fixed 
for fullscreen windows? Also the same for tabbed windows, ie. Window -> Show 
Tab Bar which allows you to drag and move Pd windows to a single tabbed window. 
We don't explicitly support this in the Pd GUI, but it *seems* to work with my 
build at least, including the mouse offset.

Both fullscreen and tabbed windows seem to be working well with my builds, less 
so with Miller's. I think this is due to the fact that I'm building the 
Wish.app on a much newer system, so we may be at a turning point to where we 
need separate builds for macOS 10.9 or 10.10+. But I may be wrong about this, 
having jumped back and forth so much recently...

Here is my latest build: Pd-0.51-4-macupdates2.zip 
<http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/0.52/Pd-0.51-4-macupdates2.zip>

Further, testing on macOS 11 with my builds looks good. There are a couple 
tweaks to add, but it basically works.

----
Dan Wilcox
@danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika>
danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/>
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