[PD] New release of Pd-L2Ork

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

After over a year of development, Pd-L2Ork is back and is better than 
ever with a slew of new additions and improvements, including (listed in 
no particular order):


* multi-OS support * Embedded L2Ork Tweeter and Audio Chat demo "apps" * 
Included updated K12 and sensel libraries * Backported elements that 
offer support for vanilla quacktrip * New image and redesigned knob 
objects * Tons of improvements to the alphanumerical gatoms, including 
number2, including scriptable focus and execution * Support for canvas 
objects' manipulation via HTML5/CSS


... and many more. Check it out by clicking on the link below.

https://bit.ly/pd-l2ork

Also, you may want to check out the following short video highlighting 
the new image object:


http://ico.bukvic.net/Video/Pd-L2Ork_Image.mp4

Best,

Ico

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Co-Director, Human Centered Design iPhD
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu

ci.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

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[PD] ANN: First official public release of L2Ork Tweeter is now available for download

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Dear colleagues, students, and fellow computer music enthusiasts,

Please pardon the x-posting:

On behalf of the Virginia Tech Linux Laptop Orchestra, I am pleased to 
announce the first official public release of the L2Ork Tweeter.


*What is L2Ork Tweeter?*
L2Ork Tweeter is a free and open source program inspired by the 
unprecedented COVID-19 pandemic that has required a vast majority of the 
human population to practice prolonged social distancing. It is designed 
to bring communities together by empowering users around the world to 
engage in collaborative music making even over slow internet 
connections. It also facilitates the exploration of audio synthesis and 
the rich variety of sounds one can generate using the frequency 
modulation algorithm. It supports up to ten concurrent performers and as 
many additional guests or audience members as the server bandwidth 
allows who can observe a performance live over the internet. Each user 
is given an instrument with a tracker that can be populated by up to 64 
loop-enabled keystrokes or notes. This intentional constraint requires 
users to build complexity through interaction with other users. It is in 
part inspired by the popular social media platform Twitter that imposes 
a similar design constraint of allowing only up to 280 characters per 
Tweet. As a result, and as evidenced by its name, L2Ork Tweeter can be 
seen as a musical counterpart to Twitter.


*Links
*To learn more about L2Ork Tweeter, including a quick start guide and a 
detailed feature overview check out the following 
video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5x1lMcTUjw 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5x1lMcTUjw>


To download L2Ork Tweeter head to: 
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/make-your-own-l2ork/tweeter/


Thank you for your consideration. Hope you all are safe and well in 
these uncertain times.


Best,

Ico

#NoVirusCanStopHumanCreativity

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu

www.icat.vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
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Re: [PD] Patching in Linux - the "sweet spot" ...

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Perhaps vanilla may want to embrace the pd-l2ork highlighting of nlets 
which grow bigger when hovered over and which in turn makes it easier 
for them to be targeted as the cursor then remains longer within their 
area...


Best,

Ico

On 9/13/2019 7:46 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

On 13.09.19 12:55, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:

In Linux I think Pd is using the 'unavailable' X cursor in some way when
you hover on an outlet, and it assumes it will look like a circle such

nah, this is wrong.

Pd (when hovering over an inlet/outlet sets the cursor to "circle"
(literally!).
it does so in tcl/pd-gui.tcl, via


set ::cursor_editmode_connect "circle"

this is btw the answer to oliver's original question: one easy way to
change the appearance of the mouse-over-iolet cursor is by setting the
"::cursor_editmode_connect" to some other value, e.g.


set ::cursor_editmode_connect "plus"

(using a gui-plugin; if you just want to play around the
tclprompt-plugin is probably best, as you can then just type the line
above into the prompt and see what it does).

check out the list of available cursors at
[https://www.tcl.tk/man/tcl/TkCmd/cursors.htm]

now the problem is that once upon a time, when those available cursors
where defined (and that's not a Tcl/Tk thing, it goes much deeper),
people had a lot of fun defining cursors like "coffee_mug", "sailboat"
and "shuttle", but unfortunately failed to add proper definitions as to
what those should actually be used for (those were the times before
"semantic" was getting big).
later generations - rather than extend the already large set of cursors
with something more semantically defined - would start to abuse the
given cursors and add non-obvious meanings to them.
that's how the "circle"-cursor became that "arrow with a no-entry sign"
in some themes.

find a different cursor theme (as peter suggested), and the cursor might
look saner.

gfamsdr
IOhannes


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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu

www.icat.vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

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Re: [PD] patch scroll bars

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

You may want to consider trying pd-l2ork which always provides minimal 
amount of necessary scrollbars for the patch to be fully visible. 
Further, it offers easy per-patch-window way to hide menu, scrollbars, 
and disabling resizing of the window.


Best,

Ico

On 5/2/2019 1:23 PM, Philip Stone wrote:


Ah, I see that Roman and Dan Wilcox were discussing this back in 
September. It seems to be one of those thorny UI problems that is hard 
to solve.


*From: *Philip Stone 
*Date: *Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 9:48 AM
*To: *"pd-list@lists.iem.at" 
*Subject: *patch scroll bars

In the last few versions of Pd (on OS X at least -- I can’t speak for 
the other platforms), the behavior of patch window scrollbars seems 
somewhat confusing. It used to be easy to size a patch window so that 
there would be no scrollbars, but now I can’t figure out what the 
trick is to do that. Sometimes the scrollbars appear, sometimes they 
don’t. Resizing the patch window sometimes makes them disappear, only 
to have them re-appear on the next time the patch is opened.


Has anybody else noticed this?

Phil Stone

UC Davis


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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Director, Creativity + Innovation
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology

Virginia Tech
Creative Technologies in Music
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu

www.icat.vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

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Re: [PD] pd-wiimote cant get acceleration

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I did. I contacted Donnie and he expressed interest in merging but as 
far as I can tell did not follow-up on it. This is why we have a 
separate cwiid repo that pd-l2ork pulls from:


https://github.com/pd-l2ork/cwiid

Best,

Ico

On 3/22/2019 7:08 AM, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

On 3/22/19 4:01 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:

FWIW cwiid lives on as a fork within pd-l2ork and has been further
developed there.

did you consider merging your changes back into upstream?
cwiid has a wide area of possible applications (and is not related to Pd
at all). it would be a pity if all your nifty features would only be
available to a (relatively) small group of people.

gfmdsa
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] pd-wiimote cant get acceleration

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

FWIW cwiid lives on as a fork within pd-l2ork and has been further 
developed there. We have a disis_wiimote external that has been tested 
with up to 18 wiimotes in a single 900 sq.ft. room without hiccups. It 
also supports things that were not supported in the original cwiid 
library, such as the pass-through mode that allows for the use of both 
plus and nunchuk, as well as support for the wiimote plus (the 
controller with integrated plus). I must admit I am unaware what is the 
current support of those features through the hid object.


Best,

Ico

On 3/21/2019 3:46 PM, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:

On 3/21/19 8:11 PM, Francisco Medeiros wrote:

Yes, I send [report acceleration 1( and nothing happens. also with the Ir :(


i haven't used the wiimote in ages, but:
IIRC, the entire cwiid approach (on which pd-wiimote is based) has been
deprecated about 10 years ago (or maybe 5), in favour of a hid-module
(the drivers come with the linux kernel).

so most likely, you ought to try your luck with [hid] first.
if you have any success (or none), please report it on the list.

gsamd
IOhannes


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Re: [PD] get keyboard events without repeats (in 2019)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

If you use pd-l2ork v.1 (pre-Purr-Data) it also offers an optional 
argument for key and keyname objects (arg 1, e.g. [key 1]) that allows 
for filtering of repeat events. Doing so is fairly tricky given the 
tcl/tk + networked gui communication implementation, particularly on 
Linux, but it does work. Porting it should not be too difficult.


Best,

Ico

On 3/18/2019 1:01 PM, katja wrote:

One workaround (that I'm using in practice since long) is to hold back
the keyup message for slightly longer than the repeat time, and only
let it through when keydown didn't come again in the meantime. The
method introduces latency on keyup but not on keydown. See attached
patch, it is slightly too complicated for ASCII illustration.

Katja


On 3/18/19, Peter P.  wrote:

Hi list,

chiming in to the discussion of possible improvements regarding mice and
now also keyboards, I am wondering if there could be a way within Pd to get
keyboard events without having the operating systems (all three of them)
repeat key down/up events in rapid succession.

I know that I can tell the operating systems to disable it but would
absolutely prefer Pd's keyboard objects to get these without repeats.

Happy to hear any feedback on that!
P



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[PD] [PD-announce] ANN: competitive research assistantships available at Virginia Tech

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Please pardon x-posting:

Virginia Tech is seeking graduate student candidates for a competitive 
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology (ICAT) graduate research 
assistantship starting with the academic year 2019-20. We are 
specifically looking for students who are interested in studying in the 
newfound Human-Centered Design (HCD) transdisciplinary individualized 
PhD and/or Computer Science's Human-Computer Interaction (HCI). We are 
also willing to consider Masters level applicants to the CS program with 
focus on HCI. Additional assistantships may be available through the HCD 
program.


HCD Option
Virginia Tech's new individualized Human-Centered Design (HCD) iPhD
transdisciplinary degree is closely aligned with the Institute for 
Creativity, Arts, and Technology (ICAT). iPhD is a degree designed 
primarily to support individually tailored PhD experiences, allowing 
students to actively participate in shaping their plan of study.


CS HCI Option
The graduate program in the Department of Computer Science at Virginia 
Tech is on its way to becoming one of the top programs in the country. 
The resources and facilities for research areas such as human-computer 
interaction, bioinformatics, and high-end computing are state of the 
art, and the growing list of specialized masters and doctoral degrees in 
a variety of areas provides opportunities for students to concentrate 
their research and study on the specific aspects of computer science in 
which they are most interested. At Virginia Tech, students receive 
firsthand instruction by award-winning faculty. In the computer science 
department, that means that graduate students have the opportunity to 
learn from the professors who have helped to define today's computer 
industry. The Center for Human-Computer Interaction is a part of ICAT, 
offering a diverse infrastructure and human expertise for cutting-edge 
research.


The GAship in question seeks candidates with a solid research background 
and aspirations with strong communication skills (verbal and written) 
and a sense of independence and self-sufficiency. We are particularly 
seeking students interested in sonification, sound spatialization, and 
interactive technologies, including (but not limited to) NIMEs, 
mind-body technologies, laptop/mobile ensembles, 
mobile/wearable/physical computing, etc. Knowledge of Max and 
Pd/Pd-L2Ork programming environments, C/C++, Java, or equivalent is 
strongly preferred, as well as skills in other domains (e.g. interactive 
multimedia, K-12 education, 3D animation, etc.).


This is a renewable assistantship with a full tuition waiver and
a stipend. To be eligible candidates need to apply, be accepted, and 
enroll in the new HCD iPhD or the Human-Computer Interaction Computer 
Science program with primary focus in the computer music domain focusing 
on one or more of the aforesaid areas of interest.


The successful candidate will be given an opportunity to participate in
conducting research using the cutting edge 148+ loudspeaker system and 
consequently its innovative spatialization, sonification, and immersion 
approaches in the new $100M Moss Arts Center and more specifically 
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology's three-story Cube space 
and its smaller counterpart, the immersive Perform Studio, as well as 
the new DISIS facilities, a part of a $600,000 renovation that opened in 
January 2015. They will also work closely with ICAT faculty and

students on a number of collaborative projects.

For questions and application information please contact Dr. Ivica Ico 
Bukvic 


For more information:
ICAT http://www.icat.vt.edu
L2Ork http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu
HCD http://hcd.icat.vt.edu/
DISIS http://disis.icat.vt.edu

Best,

Ico

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Interim Assoc. Dean, College of Liberal Arts and Human Sciences
Creative Technologies in Music
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
ICAT Senior Fellow
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
liberalarts.vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net



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Re: [PD] what's up with "#" and iemgui labels (bug)?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I stand corrected. If placing #1-blah in the receive of an iemgui object 
in pd-l2ork/purr-data, this reverts to $1-blah after applying... We need 
to note this on the bugtracker.


Best,

Ico


On 3/13/2018 10:32 AM, Ivica Bukvic wrote:

Yes 1.x and by extension 2.x.

I haven't checked but am reasonably sure it handles those scenarios ok.

Best,

Ico


--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Creative Technologies in Music
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork, CTM
ICAT Senior Fellow
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>
www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu>
disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>
ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net>


On Mar 13, 2018 10:28, "Alexandre Torres Porres" <por...@gmail.com 
<mailto:por...@gmail.com>> wrote:


2018-03-12 20:03 GMT-03:00 Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>>:

This was fixed in pd-l2ork a while ago. Perhaps porting the
patch may not be a bad idea?


you mean in pd-l2ork 1.0? With tcl? And what about the issue
IOhannes mentioned?




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Re: [PD] what's up with "#" and iemgui labels (bug)?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

This was fixed in pd-l2ork a while ago. Perhaps porting the patch may 
not be a bad idea?


Best,

Ico


On 3/12/2018 6:09 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Hi, "#" characters become "$" when trying to put them into GUI labels, 
is there a good reason for it? Or should we just treat it as a bug and 
fix it?


cheers


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[PD] [PD-announce] NIME 2018 workshop and demo deadline March 1st

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

NIME 2018 Call for submissions
Please pardon the cross-posting,

*A friendly reminder that the submission deadline of March 1st, 2018, 
for the NIME 2018 conference workshops and non-paper demos is now less 
than 24 hours away. Additional information is available on the website 
(**NIME2018.ORG ).


* *We sincerely look forward to your submissions. In the meantime, 
should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.*


*About NIME*


NIME (New Interfaces for Musical Expression) is the premier conference 
in human-machine interfaces and interactions for musical performance. 
NIME is a gathering of researchers, designers, musicians, who come 
together to share knowledge, perform music, and build community through 
research presentations, concerts, installations, and workshops.


On behalf of the 2018 NIME Committee I am pleased to announce that the 
NIME 2018 "Mirrored Resonances" Conference call for submissions is now 
officially open! Co-organized between Virginia Tech and the University 
of Virginia, the conference will take place June 3-6, 2018 in 
Blacksburg, Virginia. We welcome submissions of papers, posters, panels, 
musical performances, installations, demos, and workshops, particularly 
those that may respond to the overarching conference theme of “Mirrored 
Resonances” and its thematic areas in any of the many ways they might be 
interpreted. Likewise, we encourage potential participants to consider 
exploring the unique Virginia Tech facilities, including the Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology’s Cube with a massive high density 
loudspeaker array. The deadline for the *double-blind peer reviewed 
submissions*, including papers, panels, demo papers, music, and 
installations is January 20th, 2018. Submissions created by January 20th 
will continue to be editable until January 27th when the submission 
process will close. Demos without paper and workshops will be *curated 
*and have an extended submission deadline until March 1st, 2018. In 
addition to the NIME and academic communities, we also invite industry, 
as well as non-academic creatives to consider participating in the 
aforesaid categories. For a complete list of important dates visit the 
Participate  page.


We are excited to announce that the conference will feature four keynote 
artists:


*Onyx Ashanti**
**Benjamin Knapp**
**Ikue Mori**
**Pamela Z*


If interested in sponsorship opportunities please do not hesitate to 
contact us 




On behalf of the entire NIME 2018 Committee, we look forward to 
welcoming you in Virginia next June!


Go to the website 



NIME2018.ORG 
Facebook  
Twitter  
Instagram  
Website 


Moss Arts Center
190 Alumni Mall
Blacksburg, VA 24060
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Tweet 
Share 
Forward 
 



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[PD] [PD-announce] NIME 2018 3rd call for submissions

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

NIME 2018 Call for submissions
Please pardon the cross-posting,

*A friendly reminder that the submission deadline of  January 20th, 
2018, for the NIME 2018 conference is now a week away. Please note as 
long as you create a placeholder entry, you will be able to edit it 
until the final submission deadline of January 27th. The paper templates 
and all other supporting information is available on the website 
(**NIME2018.ORG ). We sincerely look forward to 
your submissions. In the meantime, should you have any questions, please 
do not hesitate to contact us.*



NIME (New Interfaces for Musical Expression) is the premier conference 
in human-machine interfaces and interactions for musical performance. 
NIME is a gathering of researchers, designers, musicians, who come 
together to share knowledge, perform music, and build community through 
research presentations, concerts, installations, and workshops.


On behalf of the 2018 NIME Committee I am pleased to announce that the 
NIME 2018 "Mirrored Resonances" Conference call for submissions is now 
officially open! Co-organized between Virginia Tech and the University 
of Virginia, the conference will take place June 3-6, 2018 in 
Blacksburg, Virginia. We welcome submissions of papers, posters, panels, 
musical performances, installations, demos, and workshops, particularly 
those that may respond to the overarching conference theme of “Mirrored 
Resonances” and its thematic areas in any of the many ways they might be 
interpreted. Likewise, we encourage potential participants to consider 
exploring the unique Virginia Tech facilities, including the Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology’s Cube with a massive high density 
loudspeaker array. The deadline for the *double-blind peer reviewed 
submissions*, including papers, panels, demo papers, music, and 
installations is January 20th, 2018. Submissions created by January 20th 
will continue to be editable until January 27th when the submission 
process will close. Demos without paper and workshops will be *curated 
*and have an extended submission deadline until March 1st, 2018. In 
addition to the NIME and academic communities, we also invite industry, 
as well as non-academic creatives to consider participating in the 
aforesaid categories. For a complete list of important dates visit the 
Participate  page.


We are excited to announce that the conference will feature four keynote 
artists:


*Onyx Ashanti**
**Benjamin Knapp**
**Ikue Mori**
**Pamela Z*


If interested in sponsorship opportunities please do not hesitate to 
contact us 




On behalf of the entire NIME 2018 Committee, we look forward to 
welcoming you in Virginia next June!


Go to the website 



NIME2018.ORG 
Facebook  
Twitter  
Instagram  
Website 


Moss Arts Center
190 Alumni Mall
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Like 
Tweet 
Share 
Forward 
 



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[PD] [PD-announce] NIME 2018 3rd call for submissions

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

NIME 2018 Call for submissions
Please pardon the cross-posting,

*A friendly reminder that the submission deadline of  January 20th, 
2018, for the NIME 2018 conference is now a week away. Please note as 
long as you create a placeholder entry, you will be able to edit it 
until the final submission deadline of January 27th. The paper templates 
and all other supporting information is available on the website 
(**NIME2018.ORG ). We sincerely look forward to 
your submissions. In the meantime, should you have any questions, please 
do not hesitate to contact us.*



NIME (New Interfaces for Musical Expression) is the premier conference 
in human-machine interfaces and interactions for musical performance. 
NIME is a gathering of researchers, designers, musicians, who come 
together to share knowledge, perform music, and build community through 
research presentations, concerts, installations, and workshops.


On behalf of the 2018 NIME Committee I am pleased to announce that the 
NIME 2018 "Mirrored Resonances" Conference call for submissions is now 
officially open! Co-organized between Virginia Tech and the University 
of Virginia, the conference will take place June 3-6, 2018 in 
Blacksburg, Virginia. We welcome submissions of papers, posters, panels, 
musical performances, installations, demos, and workshops, particularly 
those that may respond to the overarching conference theme of “Mirrored 
Resonances” and its thematic areas in any of the many ways they might be 
interpreted. Likewise, we encourage potential participants to consider 
exploring the unique Virginia Tech facilities, including the Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology’s Cube with a massive high density 
loudspeaker array. The deadline for the *double-blind peer reviewed 
submissions*, including papers, panels, demo papers, music, and 
installations is January 20th, 2018. Submissions created by January 20th 
will continue to be editable until January 27th when the submission 
process will close. Demos without paper and workshops will be *curated 
*and have an extended submission deadline until March 1st, 2018. In 
addition to the NIME and academic communities, we also invite industry, 
as well as non-academic creatives to consider participating in the 
aforesaid categories. For a complete list of important dates visit the 
Participate  page.


We are excited to announce that the conference will feature four keynote 
artists:


*Onyx Ashanti**
**Benjamin Knapp**
**Ikue Mori**
**Pamela Z*


If interested in sponsorship opportunities please do not hesitate to 
contact us 




On behalf of the entire NIME 2018 Committee, we look forward to 
welcoming you in Virginia next June!


Go to the website 



NIME2018.ORG 
Facebook  
Twitter  
Instagram  
Website 


Moss Arts Center
190 Alumni Mall
Blacksburg, VA 24060
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[PD] [PD-announce] NIME 2018 2nd call for submissions

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

NIME 2018 Call for submissions
Please pardon the cross-posting,

*A friendly reminder of the upcoming submission deadline January 20th, 
2018, for the NIME 2018 international conference. The paper templates 
and all other supporting information is available on the website 
(**NIME2018.ORG ). We sincerely look forward to 
your submissions. In the meantime, should you have any questions, please 
do not hesitate to contact us. ***On behalf of the entire committee I 
wish you all a happy New Year.**



NIME (New Interfaces for Musical Expression) is the premier conference 
in human-machine interfaces and interactions for musical performance. 
NIME is a gathering of researchers, designers, musicians, who come 
together to share knowledge, perform music, and build community through 
research presentations, concerts, installations, and workshops.


On behalf of the 2018 NIME Committee I am pleased to announce that the 
NIME 2018 "Mirrored Resonances" Conference call for submissions is now 
officially open! Co-organized between Virginia Tech and the University 
of Virginia, the conference will take place June 3-6, 2018 in 
Blacksburg, Virginia. We welcome submissions of papers, posters, panels, 
musical performances, installations, demos, and workshops, particularly 
those that may respond to the overarching conference theme of “Mirrored 
Resonances” and its thematic areas in any of the many ways they might be 
interpreted. Likewise, we encourage potential participants to consider 
exploring the unique Virginia Tech facilities, including the Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology’s Cube with a massive high density 
loudspeaker array. The deadline for the *double-blind peer reviewed 
submissions*, including papers, panels, demo papers, music, and 
installations is January 20th, 2018. Submissions created by January 20th 
will continue to be editable until January 27th when the submission 
process will close. Demos without paper and workshops will be *curated 
*and have an extended submission deadline until March 1st, 2018. In 
addition to the NIME and academic communities, we also invite industry, 
as well as non-academic creatives to consider participating in the 
aforesaid categories. For a complete list of important dates visit the 
Participate  page.


We are excited to announce that the conference will feature four keynote 
artists:


*Onyx Ashanti**
**Benjamin Knapp**
**Ikue Mori**
**Pamela Z*


If interested in sponsorship opportunities please do not hesitate to 
contact us 




On behalf of the entire NIME 2018 Committee, we look forward to 
welcoming you in Virginia next June!


Go to the website 



NIME2018.ORG 
Facebook  
Twitter  
Instagram  
Website 


Moss Arts Center
190 Alumni Mall
Blacksburg, VA 24060
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[PD] [PD-announce] NIME 2018 2nd call for submissions

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

NIME 2018 Call for submissions
Please pardon the cross-posting,

*A friendly reminder of the upcoming submission deadline January 20th, 
2018, for the NIME 2018 conference. The paper templates and all other 
supporting information is available on the website (**NIME2018.ORG 
). We sincerely look forward to your submissions. 
In the meantime, should you have any questions, please do not hesitate 
to contact us. ***On behalf of the entire committee I wish you all a 
happy New Year.**



NIME (New Interfaces for Musical Expression) is the premier conference 
in human-machine interfaces and interactions for musical performance. 
NIME is a gathering of researchers, designers, musicians, who come 
together to share knowledge, perform music, and build community through 
research presentations, concerts, installations, and workshops.


On behalf of the 2018 NIME Committee I am pleased to announce that the 
NIME 2018 "Mirrored Resonances" Conference call for submissions is now 
officially open! Co-organized between Virginia Tech and the University 
of Virginia, the conference will take place June 3-6, 2018 in 
Blacksburg, Virginia. We welcome submissions of papers, posters, panels, 
musical performances, installations, demos, and workshops, particularly 
those that may respond to the overarching conference theme of “Mirrored 
Resonances” and its thematic areas in any of the many ways they might be 
interpreted. Likewise, we encourage potential participants to consider 
exploring the unique Virginia Tech facilities, including the Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology’s Cube with a massive high density 
loudspeaker array. The deadline for the *double-blind peer reviewed 
submissions*, including papers, panels, demo papers, music, and 
installations is January 20th, 2018. Submissions created by January 20th 
will continue to be editable until January 27th when the submission 
process will close. Demos without paper and workshops will be *curated 
*and have an extended submission deadline until March 1st, 2018. In 
addition to the NIME and academic communities, we also invite industry, 
as well as non-academic creatives to consider participating in the 
aforesaid categories. For a complete list of important dates visit the 
Participate  page.


We are excited to announce that the conference will feature four keynote 
artists:


*Onyx Ashanti**
**Benjamin Knapp**
**Ikue Mori**
**Pamela Z*


If interested in sponsorship opportunities please do not hesitate to 
contact us 




On behalf of the entire NIME 2018 Committee, we look forward to 
welcoming you in Virginia next June!


Go to the website 



NIME2018.ORG 
Facebook  
Twitter  
Instagram  
Website 


Moss Arts Center
190 Alumni Mall
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Like 
Tweet 
Share 
Forward 
 



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[PD] [PD-announce] NIME 2018 call for submissions

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

NIME 2018 Call for submissions
Please pardon the cross-posting,


NIME (New Interfaces for Musical Expression) is the premier conference 
in human-machine interfaces and interactions for musical performance. 
NIME is a gathering of researchers, designers, musicians, who come 
together to share knowledge, perform music, and build community through 
research presentations, concerts, installations, and workshops.


On behalf of the 2018 NIME Committee I am pleased to announce that the 
NIME 2018 "Mirrored Resonances" Conference call for submissions is now 
officially open! Co-organized between Virginia Tech and the University 
of Virginia, the conference will take place June 3-6, 2018 in 
Blacksburg, Virginia. We welcome submissions of papers, posters, panels, 
musical performances, installations, demos, and workshops, particularly 
those that may respond to the overarching conference theme of “Mirrored 
Resonances” and its thematic areas in any of the many ways they might be 
interpreted. Likewise, we encourage potential participants to consider 
exploring the unique Virginia Tech facilities, including the Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology’s Cube with a massive high density 
loudspeaker array. The deadline for the *double-blind peer reviewed 
submissions*, including papers, panels, demo papers, music, and 
installations is January 20th, 2018. Submissions created by January 20th 
will continue to be editable until January 27th when the submission 
process will close. Demos without paper and workshops will be *curated 
*and have an extended submission deadline until March 1st, 2018. In 
addition to the NIME and academic communities, we also invite industry, 
as well as non-academic creatives to consider participating in the 
aforesaid categories. For a complete list of important dates visit the 
Participate  page.


We are excited to announce that the conference will feature four keynote 
artists:


*Onyx Ashanti**
**Benjamin Knapp**
**Ikue Mori**
**Pamela Z*


If interested in sponsorship opportunities please do not hesitate to 
contact us 




On behalf of the entire NIME 2018 Committee, we look forward to 
welcoming you in Virginia next June!


Go to the website 



NIME2018.ORG 
Facebook  
Twitter  
Instagram  
Website 


Moss Arts Center
190 Alumni Mall
Blacksburg, VA 24060
Like 
Tweet 
Share 
Forward 
 



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[PD] ANN: Virginia Tech individualized interdisciplinary iPhD program at Virginia Tech seeking masters and doctoral candidates

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Please excuse x-posting

Virginia Tech's new individualized Human-Centered Design (HCD) iPhD
transdisciplinary degree is closely aligned with the newfound Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology (ICAT, http://www.icat.vt.edu). 
iPhD is a degree designed primarily to support individually tailored PhD 
experiences, allowing students to actively participate in shaping their 
plan of study. HCD iPhD closely interfaces with a number of other 
on-campus programs, centers, institutes, and initiatives, including 
Center for Human-Computer Interaction, Music, Visual Arts, and ICAT.


Interdisciplinary audio-centric research including (but not limited to) 
design, composition, immersion, spatialization, maker, robotics, and 
interaction plays an important component of the iPhD degree. The program 
also offers highly competitive graduate assistantships. Students 
interested in iPhD should apply online via the graduate school portal at 
https://applyto.graduateschool.vt.edu/pages/login.php


For additional info on the HCD iPhD visit http://hcd.icat.vt.edu/

About HCD and Virginia Tech
HCD is the largest interdisciplinary iPhD program at Virginia Tech 
hosting a growing number of graduate students whose scholarly focus is 
on interdisciplinary audio-, music-, and multimedia-centric research. 
Students engaging in the program will have an opportunity to engage in 
the externally funded research, including NSF grants, entrepreneurship 
opportunities and industry partnerships (e.g. NASA), as well as the 
exploration of the unique Virginia Tech facilities, such as the $15M 
1,600 sq.ft. 4-story Cube (http://www.icat.vt.edu/content/cube-0) with a 
140+ loudspeaker system capable of supporting all of the cutting edge 
spatialization algorithms, a 24-camera motion capture, multiple 
projection surfaces including a deployable cyclorama, and tetherless 
(backpack-based) VR/AR/MR solutions. Virginia Tech is also the home of 
the Linux Laptop Orchestra (L2Ork, http://l2ork.music.vt.edu), Digital 
Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio (DISIS), and as of fall 2017 of a 
newly nationally accredited Creative Technologies in Music undergraduate 
degree option that offers a unique mix of undergraduate 
technology-centric research, computer music, innovation, and 
entrepreneurship. Both graduate and undergraduate programs are designed 
to interface with the newly introduced Destination Areas, an array of 
campus-wide multi-million interdisciplinary initiatives, including the 
Creativity & Innovation. A rapidly growing number of Virginia Tech 
music, audio, and multimedia research interdisciplinary faculty group 
includes:


Dr. Ivica Ico Bukvic
Prof. Zach Duer
Prof. Michael Ermann
Dr. Ben Knapp
Dr. Eric Lyon
Dr. Charles Nichols
Dr. Michael Roan

For questions and application information please contact Dr. Ivica Ico 
Bukvic <i...@vt.edu>


For more information:
HCD http://www.vthcd.com/
ICAT http://www.icat.vt.edu
DISIS http://disis.icat.vt.edu
L2Ork http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu
SOPA http://performingarts.vt.edu

Best,

Ico

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu


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Re: [PD] Weird [cnv] object error-bug

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Does your CNV have a label with spaces? This is something 
Pd-L2Ork/Purr-Data support but I am not sure if vanilla does in which 
case this could be the cause of the problem.



Best,


Ico


On 4/10/2017 11:56 PM, Liam Goodacre wrote:



This can happen if you created the canvas in L2Ork and are calling the 
properties in Vanilla. Is this the case?




*From:* Pd-list  on behalf of José 
Rafael Subía Valdez 

*Sent:* 10 April 2017 13:49
*To:* pd-list
*Subject:* [PD] Weird [cnv] object error-bug
Hello list,

I am getting a strange tcl error (I guess this is more of a bug 
report). I am using a [cnv] object as dynamic labels, I have 2 of 
these CNV objects in 2 different abstractions with GOP activated. If I 
open these abstractions in my main patch and try to access the 
properties of the CNV y get the following error. (I am sorry that the 
text of the console is attached as an image, apparently, I can't copy 
this text).


running on mac OSX 10.6.8 and tested on two different machines.

cheers

--
José Rafael Subía Valdez
www.jrsv.net 
JRSV | Official website 
www.jrsv.net
Home. Welcome to my website, here you will find information regarding 
my work in different fields of research and production. Find out about 
my projects that involve ...









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Re: [PD] Question about loadbang and dynamic sub-patches

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 2/17/2017 4:41 AM, zmoel...@iem.at wrote:


On 02/17/2017 02:25 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:

FWIW in pd-l2ork/purr-data loadbang fires even in dynamically created
patches.

so does that mean, that if i have an abstraction "foo":

[loadbang]
|
[f 1]
|
[outlet]

and i dynamically create a patch including that abstraction, the
loadbang will be lost on the created patch?
(meaning: the following will not print:
  #X obj 100 100 foo;
  #X obj 100 200 print;
  #X connect 0 0 1 0;
)


If you had a print inside the abstraction it would print. If you 
dynamically create objects, chances are you will first dynamically 
create the abstraction which can initialize itself using a loadbang, 
then the print, then the connection. In this respect its behavior is 
synonymous to, for example [f 42] which initializes itself to 42 but 
does not output anything until asked to do so. This way initialization 
of individual abstractions is handled gracefully, whereas the example 
you are suggesting would require manual interaction regardless whether 
you are using an abstraction foo or an [f 42]. In other words, 
pd-l2ork/purr-data's loadbang implementation allows for parity between 
built-in objects and abstractions. This feature is used extensively 
inside pd-l2ork's k12 mode.


As a side-note, pd-l2ork also has an internal pre-loadbang call that is 
reserved for dealing with presets and occurs before the loadbang. This 
way you can gracefully handle multiple instances of the same abstraction 
(as is the case inside K12) and store their states through a single 
preset_hub object located on the parent canvas.


Best,

Ico




if it does print, i would be interested in the heuristic you used.

if it does indeed not print, then i think i just hit a bug (as the patch
behaves different when created dynamically or not¹)

gfmsrda
IOhannes

¹ it doesnt't in Pd vanilla, if you don't forget to send a "loadbang"
message after doing the dynamic patching as a kind of "finalize".



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Re: [PD] [coll] bug

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 1/29/2017 10:24 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
So, basically, the way [coll] was designed in cyclone caused signal 
drop outs when reading large files, while in max that never happens. I 
don't see the advantage or why you'd want [coll] to behave like that 
in Pd... and it seems to go against the max design, which prevents 
that from happening.
In essence, yes. However, not everyone uses low power computers and it 
is possible that even on midsize machines, such dropouts will be unlikely.




So, if you issued a bang to load a coll file that fans out into a
trigger with two bangs (...) the second bang could potentially
come out before the done reading bang.


So don't use a trigger to fan it out, use the bang that comes out of 
[coll].


[coll] has a 3rd outlet that sends a bang to say when it finished 
reading a file. Its whole design purpose is just so you can do 
something after the file read is done, so one should never really use 
a [trigger] in that way because it offers another way (and a "safer" 
way) to deal with it.


Yes, but this could break traditional patches that rely on operations 
that need  to take place in a sequence within the same interrupt. I say 
this being fully aware how ironic this statement may be coming from me 
given pd-l2ork's mantra is if something is broken, we'll fix it and then 
you need to fix your patches, even though this has yet to cause any 
irreversible breakage when compared to vanilla in part because pd-l2ork 
now has the -legacy flag that enables prevalent legacy (mis)behavior 
used in historic patches. Back on topic, since you have no way of 
predicting when the bang will come back (which is the time it takes to 
load the time + clock_delay(0)), you have no way of initiating other 
operations that rely on coll's output because you don't know the file 
has loaded. This is not an issue with Max.


So, in essence, I agree with you but am also trying to make sure that 
this does not cause major backwards compatibility breakage. Hence my 
optional argument that can be named whatever you wish to name it thereby 
reserving a keyword (e.g. @threaded 1, akin to Max's Jitter attributes, 
to minimize clashes with file names and other Max idiosyncrasies).


Best,

Ico



Again, I don't see any advantage in having [coll] behaving as it was 
first designed in cyclone. If you want that just so you can ensure a 
bang from a trigger is sent out after [coll] read a file, that kind of 
assurance comes at a cost of audio drop outs, and if it doesn't really 
cause drop outs in the first place (since it is only a "potential" 
issue), it is not really doing anything... as the same would occur n 
the threaded version! the threaded version only really acts in the 
case of audio drop outs - and only when reading large files (and not 
any other kind of operation).


On the other hand, the threaded version offers the advantage of no 
audio drop outs, as it is in Max...  this happens with no compromise 
as you can (and should) rely on the 3rd outlet bang if you want to 
schedule an action for when it is done reading a file.


Looking at coll up to cyclone 0.1alpha57, it always had a 3rd outlet 
to bang when file read is done, and it would always cause drop outs 
for large files. I don't know how to consider how things are in 
cyclone 0.2, but one could consider that the threaded option is gone...


For an update of cyclone, I'm really considering the so called 
threaded version by default, as it offers a very relevant advantage of 
avoiding drop outs. This change does have a compromise, but it is not 
a big compromise and we can just document how it affects the object, 
and how one should always rely on the 3rd outlet bang instead of a 
trigger... we can also provide an option to go back to the old 
behavior, but I don't really think anyone would really opt and care 
for that as it does have a serious drop out issue.


cheers


2017-01-29 18:54 GMT-02:00 Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>>:




On 1/29/2017 3:18 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:

2017-01-29 17:53 GMT-02:00 Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>>:

I also think unthreaded should be default to maintain
determinacy in sync with Max


hi, sorry, i dont think i get what you mean, can you elaborate on
what "determinancy" is? I was asking about it in my earlier
messages, I wasn't sure before and now I really don't I get what
it's supposed to mean.

cheers




which breaks the order of execution but also ensures there are no
dropped samples.


HTH

Best,

Ico




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Re: [PD] [coll] bug

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 1/29/2017 3:18 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
2017-01-29 17:53 GMT-02:00 Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>>:


I also think unthreaded should be default to maintain determinacy
in sync with Max


hi, sorry, i dont think i get what you mean, can you elaborate on what 
"determinancy" is? I was asking about it in my earlier messages, I 
wasn't sure before and now I really don't I get what it's supposed to 
mean.


cheers


It means that threaded version will report a bang when done loading in 
clock_delay(0) way. In other words as soon as possible but not 
necessarily in the same cycle of handling non-audio messages. So, if you 
issued a bang to load a coll file that fans out into a trigger with two 
bangs, in a determinant (non-threaded) way one bang hitting the coll 
would be followed by coll pushing out a done reading bang, and then the 
second bang from the trigger would come out. In a threaded way, the 
second bang could potentially come out before the done reading bang 
which breaks the order of execution but also ensures there are no 
dropped samples.


HTH

Best,

Ico
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Re: [PD] [coll] bug

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I also think unthreaded should be default to maintain determinacy in 
sync with Max, with threaded being optionally enabled.


Best,

Ico


On 1/29/2017 9:25 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
yeah, derek was talking about our current development, where we 
screwed up with the order of bangs in the unthreaded - but fixed now.


Derek, would you care to elaborate why you think unthreaded should be 
the default?


And is this threaded stuff only for multi threaded processors? How 
does this work on a single core rasbperry pi or something like that?


cheers

2017-01-29 6:32 GMT-02:00 Derek Kwan >:


>
> coll_bind, where msg is the thing returned by collcommon_doread:
>
> if(msg->m_line > 0) clock_delay(x->x_clock);
>
> but that may have been the thing that screwed up the correct
order of
> things. In any case, I'll have to look at it more...

(apologies in advance for polluting the list with cyclone-dev stuff
but for those following along)

Oh, nm, it was something collcommon_doread and I fixed the unthreaded
order =)




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Re: [PD] [coll] bug

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Joining late to the party...

Being the culprit (I wrote the threaded addition to the coll object) I 
am curious--Alexandre, do you mind elaborating how did the threaded 
thing break max-msp compatibility? If you create a coll object without 
the optional arg, you get Max behavior. If you add the optional arg you 
get threaded which theoretically breaks determinacy in favor of avoiding 
dropping samples due to file I/O in the middle of a performance.


Tests in Max that stand out:

Reading and writing coll files while sound is running does not cause 
xruns in Max, whereas in Pd it can depending on the size of the coll 
file and CPU utilization.


You are right in that determinacy is preserved in Max no matter what 
(e.g. read outlet bang outputs immediately after issuing the read 
message in logical time).


Doing Uzi with 100k generated entries into coll object in Max and I get 
guaranteed crashes from these on both 6 and 7.


Best,

Ico


On 1/26/2017 6:51 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:

oh, I had read that :) - so, same here, with my new help file, no error!

something weird about that help file... don't ask me either

2017-01-25 16:04 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola >:


/>>But I never tried that, instead I found and obsure
solve, cant remember, it is somewhere at the list archive./


/>yeah, we should find it :)/



It`s here:

https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2016-09/116245.html



Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.



*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres >
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 25, 2017 2:53 AM
*To:* Lucas Cordiviola
*Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at 
*Subject:* Re: [PD] [coll] bug


2017-01-24 18:51 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola >:


I though at that time that the problem migth come cuz in the
help there are multiple [coll]  & they all share not having a
name, I thougt that giving some diff names could solve the
help patch problem.


I have many unnamed coll object in my newly written help file, and
it doesn't give that error, so maybe it's not that...


But I never tried that, instead I found and obsure solve, cant
remember, it is somewhere at the list archive.


yeah, we should find it :)




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Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

The character is not invisible. In an editor it manifests with an 
endline plus an indentation in the following line which actually 
visually helps parse things out inside a plaintext file like .pd.


I think the example you mentioned, while possible, is contrived because 
if a user is reading a config, they are likely already inside Pd with 
the intention of using such a config to configure their patch state. If 
this is the case, and the config is stored inside a patch in a form of a 
comment, then this is a non-issue because all \v chars are replaced with 
\n at runtime which IIRC regexp and similar methodologies can recognize 
as a separation between args.


Now, the only reason I can imagine someone parsing a pd file without 
actually loading it would be your pd META example for tooltips which is 
a one-off example that can be easily addressed in a number of ways. 
Other examples seem to me like academic exercises--why would you store 
config inside a comments inside a pd patch, just to parse a comment 
which would require you to circumnavigate all the other syntax inside 
the file when you could do the same in a plaintext file or a coll 
object, or better yet, use preset_hub/node system?


Best,

Ico


On 12/4/2016 2:38 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:



> What about people parsing Pd files in Pd?  If they're searching for 
symbol "foo", are they going to have to deal with the edge case of 
symbol "foo\v"?


Ivica,
Just to give an example-- suppose someone is using a patch to store 
configuration data for their project.  They type the config data as 
comments in the
patch, much like [pd META].  Then they parse their patch from within 
Pd, using [textfile], or [text] or whatever.


Now, if they decide to insert some newlines into the comments to make 
their config prettier, as far as I understand this ends up appending 
an invisible
'\v' character to the last atom of each line.  So the next time they 
read their config they will get corrupted data that's hard to debug 
because the

character doing the corruption is non-printable.

That's the only direct downside I can see.  But as a design pattern 
it's problematic-- there are other places in Pd where a dev tried to 
use an
"obscure" character as a placeholder for something else.  That 
approach usually ends up creating more bugs.


-Jonathan


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Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

This only pertains to comments and as such should not make any 
difference elsewhere (unless you want to live-code something by hacking 
comments :-). Also, Pd-L2Ork inherited from extended search in patch 
option that offers match full or a subset of a string which should cover 
all the cases.



On 12/4/2016 1:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:




*From:* IOhannes m zmölnig 
*To:* pd-list@lists.iem.at
*Sent:* Sunday, December 4, 2016 1:48 PM
*Subject:* Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr 
Data rc1)


On 12/04/2016 07:13 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

>>  If they're searching for symbol "foo", are they going to have to 
deal with the edge case of symbol "foo\v"?


> hmm, how does "foo" not match "foo\v"?

[11(
|
[makefilename %c]
|
[symbol foo$1(
|
[select foo]
|
[bng]

-Jonathan

> grdsa
> IOhannes


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Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Another thing that pd-l2ork's comment does that makes it theoretically 
incompatible with vanilla, it recognizes line breaks and saves them. It 
uses ASCII 11 to save it into the .pd file which is vertical tab that is 
by and large unused. While vanilla shows line breaks when creating an 
object, cutting and pasting it, or saving, closing, and reopening the 
file shows that they don't get saved. As a result a lot of patches 
sidestep this by using multiple comments, which is hard to maintain, 
particularly when it comes to writing documentation.



Both improvements pd-l2ork uses could be easily ported back to vanilla 
as I cannot think of a scenario where it could potentially cause a 
breakage in backwards compatibility.



Best,


Ico


On 12/3/2016 9:10 PM, Liam Goodacre wrote:


Spaces work in labels in L2Ork because they are escaped with a 
backslash. But this is creating an incompatibility with Vanilla, which 
then can't read the object's properties.



If you want a way to get larger, nicer text into a PD file than 
allowed with the ctrl+5 comment, the best way might be to use ASCII 
255, the non breaking space (" "), which looks like a space but is 
read like a regular character. It's a bit of a pain to copy it between 
every word, but it works nicely across platforms once it's in place. A 
faster option for editing might be to let Vanilla replace spaces with 
underscores and then edit them in the .pd file with a text editor.




*From:* Pd-list  on behalf of Jonathan 
Wilkes via Pd-list 

*Sent:* 04 December 2016 01:27
*To:* Alexandre Torres Porres
*Cc:* Pd-List
*Subject:* Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr 
Data rc1)

Why not just use the built-in  comment?



*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
*To:* Jonathan Wilkes 
*Cc:* Pd-List 
*Sent:* Friday, December 2, 2016 1:10 PM
*Subject:* Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr 
Data rc1)


Hi, I see Purr Data has this feature where it accepts spaces in lables 
such as in canvases... this is awesome, and mostly why I use 
cyclone/comment


I can see we could depart from how you can lable stuff in Purr Data to 
make a new working cross platform version of cyclone/comment that is 
still backwards compatible.


cheers

2016-11-29 2:28 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres >:


one question, how does canvas and other fonts for labels work in
cross platforms?

why not use that for comment... for now, all cyclone/comment is
can be thought of just being a fancy label perhaps...

I did use it a lot in my new help files that I'm working on, but
only cause it'd be too much work to use canvas and labels, as it'd
imply a canvas for each word as it doesn't take spaces (is only a
symbol)

I was even thinking of ditching it when, it stopped working on
vanilla 0.47 - yeah, that's another thing, a fix needs to be made
to vanilla for old versions of comment (0.2 and below to work) -
but then I realized it could be really useful. I was also hoping
to add properties windows to make it more convenient.

anyway, the question is, why labels and stuff simply work?

cheers


2016-11-28 21:45 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes >:



Another reason for putting it off is that I still haven't
figured out a sane approach
to handling arbitrary fonts in a diagram where everything
is absolutely positioned.
In fact I only have a minimally-workable approach to
handling a single, mono-
spaced font across platforms. For example, there was a
change somewhere in
the Gnu/Linux font-stack (relatively) recently that
renders fonts (or at least
DejaVu Sans Mono) noticeably wider than before.  So
Windows, OSX, and
old Gnu/Linux would render a particular line of text sized
at "12px" within less
than a single pixel of each other.  The new Gnu/Linux font
stack (seen in Ubuntu
16.04 and some recent Arch) rendered the same text about 7
pixels wider.

Worse, the newer Gnu/Linux font stack quantizes the "px"
sizes such that the
next smallest size is noticeably smaller.  So in Ubuntu
16.04 I have to compromise
by keeping the object box the same size and having some
extra padding at the
end-- otherwise users of that OS could end up tightly
spacing their object chains
in ways that cause overlaps on the other platforms.

So... I'd like to get a 

Re: [PD] cyclone comment and cross platform (was Re: Purr Data rc1)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

This has been around for some time in pd-l2ork and by extension in 
Purr-Data, but as Liam recently pointed out on the l2ork-dev list, it 
can also break patches on vanilla where spaces (including escaped ones) 
in the .pd file get misinterpreted by the vanilla parser. Liam suggested 
changing those to ASCII 255 which is some other sort of a space... 
Something to be investigated further down the road. Of course, an 
alternative would be that vanilla ports the same space parsing method 
from pd-l2ork/purr-data.


Best,

Ico


On 12/2/2016 1:10 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
Hi, I see Purr Data has this feature where it accepts spaces in lables 
such as in canvases... this is awesome, and mostly why I use 
cyclone/comment


I can see we could depart from how you can lable stuff in Purr Data to 
make a new working cross platform version of cyclone/comment that is 
still backwards compatible.


cheers

2016-11-29 2:28 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres >:


one question, how does canvas and other fonts for labels work in
cross platforms?

why not use that for comment... for now, all cyclone/comment is
can be thought of just being a fancy label perhaps...

I did use it a lot in my new help files that I'm working on, but
only cause it'd be too much work to use canvas and labels, as it'd
imply a canvas for each word as it doesn't take spaces (is only a
symbol)

I was even thinking of ditching it when, it stopped working on
vanilla 0.47 - yeah, that's another thing, a fix needs to be made
to vanilla for old versions of comment (0.2 and below to work) -
but then I realized it could be really useful. I was also hoping
to add properties windows to make it more convenient.

anyway, the question is, why labels and stuff simply work?

cheers


2016-11-28 21:45 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes >:



Another reason for putting it off is that I still haven't
figured out a sane approach
to handling arbitrary fonts in a diagram where everything
is absolutely positioned.
In fact I only have a minimally-workable approach to
handling a single, mono-
spaced font across platforms. For example, there was a
change somewhere in
the Gnu/Linux font-stack (relatively) recently that
renders fonts (or at least
DejaVu Sans Mono) noticeably wider than before.  So
Windows, OSX, and
old Gnu/Linux would render a particular line of text sized
at "12px" within less
than a single pixel of each other.  The new Gnu/Linux font
stack (seen in Ubuntu
16.04 and some recent Arch) rendered the same text about 7
pixels wider.

Worse, the newer Gnu/Linux font stack quantizes the "px"
sizes such that the
next smallest size is noticeably smaller.  So in Ubuntu
16.04 I have to compromise
by keeping the object box the same size and having some
extra padding at the
end-- otherwise users of that OS could end up tightly
spacing their object chains
in ways that cause overlaps on the other platforms.

So... I'd like to get a handle on that mess first, then
handling arbitrary font
families-- as in cyclone/comment-- will hopefully be
easier and less prone
to bugs.


> well, it seems some of the issues are exactly what we're
facing now...

I think those issues are impossible to solve for displaying
arbitrary fonts in
a diagram like a Pd patch, and especially for arbitrary fonts
in multi-line text.
The user simply won't be able to predict whether or not there
will be collisions
on someone else's platform (or even if those fonts aren't
available, which fonts
will get chosen).

I'm all for porting cyclone/comment for the sake of Max
compatibility.  But I'd
strongly advise against using cyclone/comment in any patch
that's supposed to
be used cross-platform (aside from its own help patch, of course).

-Jonathan

> cheers




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Re: [PD] [delwrite~], or "what Pd operations are/should be realtime?"

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Based on the Mathieu's patch it is a simple memset call which as far as 
I can tell should take very little time even with large buffers. Of 
course, YMMV based on how powerful is the CPU and how much stuff it is 
supposed to juggle at the same time.


Best,

Ico


On 11/22/2016 11:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
btw, there is a clear method for the delay line in pd-l2ork, 
undocumented, but there, not sure how it is done, but I remember I 
showed it to this list asking if that was doing it ok in realtime?


cheers

2016-11-22 11:28 GMT-05:00 Alexandre Torres Porres >:


yeah, when miller said he takes his time cause he wants to be sure
what to do I immediately remember about this request of mine :)
but I had to leave the session, anyway, good call matt ;)

there should really be a 'set' method for delread~


+1




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Re: [PD] could vanilla borrow iemlib's hi pass filter recipe?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Cool, thank you.


On 10/17/2016 12:36 PM, cyrille henry wrote:
It was updated for 0.44, so it's not a correction of the bug Katja 
pointed (in the 0.47)


The updated is describe in hip~ help file as follow :

COMPATIBILITY NOTE: in Pd versions before 0.44, the high-frequency 
output gain was incorrectly greater than one (usually only slightly 
so, but noticeably if the cutoff frequency was more than 1/4 the 
Nyquist frequency). This problem was fixed INCORECTLY in pd 0.44-0 
thoguh 0.44-2, and is now hopefully fixed since Pd 0.44-3. To get the 
old (0.43 and earlier) behavior, set "compatibility" to 0.43 in Pd's 
command line or by a message:


I think more information can be found in this mailing list archive.

I just wanted to point that this filter can be update while keeping 
compatibility with old patch (since it already have been done few 
years ago).


cheers
c

Le 17/10/2016 à 18:06, Ivica Ico Bukvic a écrit :

On 10/17/2016 8:47 AM, cyrille henry wrote:
they have been recently updated (0.44). Many patchs rely on the old 
sound they deliver, this is achieved via the compatibility flag.

(see help file).


Updated as in fixed the bugs pointed out here or if not, what was 
updated in them?


Best,

Ico


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Re: [PD] could vanilla borrow iemlib's hi pass filter recipe?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 10/17/2016 8:47 AM, cyrille henry wrote:
they have been recently updated (0.44). Many patchs rely on the old 
sound they deliver, this is achieved via the compatibility flag.

(see help file).


Updated as in fixed the bugs pointed out here or if not, what was 
updated in them?


Best,

Ico


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Re: [PD] could vanilla borrow iemlib's hi pass filter recipe?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Jumping in on this thread:

If anyone who can tackle improvements on these filters can provide a 
patch for lop~, hip~, bp~ and vcf~, please copy me when submitting the 
patch, so that I can merge it with pd-l2ork. Thank you.


Best,

Ico


On 10/15/2016 7:59 AM, Christof Ressi wrote:

If iemlib's license allows to use the recipe in BSD

IMHO, the correct formular for the cutoff frequency below (which I guess is 
also used in [hp1~] since the frequency response is the same) is 'common 
knowledge', so I don't think you'd have to pay attention to any licence.



Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Oktober 2016 um 13:52 Uhr
Von: "Christof Ressi" 
An: katja , "Miller Puckette" 
Cc: pd-list 
Betreff: Re: [PD] could vanilla borrow iemlib's hi pass filter recipe?


But coefficients aren't recalculated so
often, therefore this difference will be negligible.

That's a good point. You're right that both involve a feedback and feedforward, 
so I'm wondering why [hp1~] needs more CPU... otherwise, iemlib's filters are 
very efficient.

Anyway, I researched a bit and found the reason why the frequency response of 
Pd filters seems 'wrong':

Miller uses a formular for calculating the cutoff frequency which is taken from 
analog filters but is not really adequate for digital filters since it doesn't 
reflect the cyclic nature of the digital domain (although you can see it in 
some articles on digital filters).

Let's take [hip~] as an example:

the formular for a 1-pole 1-zero highpass goes:
y[n] = (x[n] - x[n-1]) * (1 + k) / 2   +   k * y[n-1]

Miller calculates the position of the pole with
k = 1 - (fc * 2*pi / SR).

The correct formular, however (if you want the frequency response to be zero at 
Nyquist!), would be
k = (1-sin(a))/cos(a), where a = fc * 2*pi / SR.

You can find it here: 
http://www.arpchord.com/pdf/coeffs_first_order_filters_0p1.pdf

BTW, the reason why [hip~] seems to get stuck at 7018 Hz is because Miller 
clips the coefficient below 0, so it never reaches -1 (where the gain would be 
all zero).

Also, there is another approximation with a similiar behaviour, which goes like 
this:
k = e^(-2*pi*fc/SR). I could find it here: http://www.dspguide.com/ch19/2.htm
Here, the pole can only move from 1 to 0 and doesn't ever reach -1 as well.

Now, is the behaviour of [hip~] 'wrong'?
If you define at 1-pole 1-zero high pass filter as something which passes 
everything at fc = DC and blocks everything at fc = Nyquist, then I'd say yes.
If it should roughly model an analogue filter (where the cutoff frequency can 
go up to infinity) for low cutoff frequencies only, then I'd say no.

Also, as I tried to point out, this issue with the cutoff frequency is true for 
all Pd filters!

So I think this behaviour should either be changed (great, if Katja is willing 
to submit a patch!) or documented in the help patch (gain is not 0 at Nyquist!).

I'm not an engineer or any expert on filter design. It's just my two cents :-)

Christof






Gesendet: Samstag, 15. Oktober 2016 um 11:39 Uhr
Von: katja 
An: "Christof Ressi" 
Cc: pd-list 
Betreff: Re: [PD] could vanilla borrow iemlib's hi pass filter recipe?

I'm pretty confident [hip~] would not loose its efficiency when using
iemlib's recipe. Both hi pass filters have a feed forward and feedback
component, with coefficients for normalization and feedback.
Calculation of these coefficients is a bit more involved with iemlib's
recipe, using trig functions. But coefficients aren't recalculated so
often, therefore this difference will be negligible.

To reassure, it is not my intention to spark another 'what's wrong
with pd' thread. If iemlib's license allows to use the recipe in BSD
code I'll try patch the C of [hip~] and submit on the tracker for
review. Who knows, it may be a no-brainer.

Katja





On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 2:34 AM, Christof Ressi  wrote:

There are a number of big problems with all build-in filters in Pd (expect for 
the raw filters).

Problem number 1:
[lop~] and [hip~] both use a weird (you could also say: wrong) formula for the 
cutoff frequency which makes them gradually converge to a fixed output state 
(reached by about 7000 Hz). The same is true for [vcf~] and [bp~] with Q <= 1. 
Therefore the actual cutoff frequency is only correct for very low frequencies and 
approximately gets more and more off until it doesn't move at all.

Problem number 2:
[bp~] and [vcf~] don't have zeros at DC and Nyquist. For low Q values, the 
slope is different for each side and changes with frequency.

Problem number 3:
the gain at the center frequency is not 1 for both [bp~] and [vcf~]. It rather 
depends on frequency and Q. [bp~] even has has a gain of 2 for Q <= 1!

I did some FFT plots, see the attachment.

I remember Miller saying somewhere that these filters are not designed for high 
cutoff frequencies - but even for 

Re: [PD] Question about the pd-extended history

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 10/10/2016 2:07 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

> Does anyone have a link to a paper or a publication that documents the


> motivation behind and original initiators of the pd-extended? I traced
> releases back to 2003 but there is no info on who were original players
> who started it. Thank you.

Didn't Hans start it?


That's what I thought but I am not 100% sure, so I am hoping the 
community will provide needed clarity.


Best,

Ico



> Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Creative Technologies in Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


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[PD] Question about the pd-extended history

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Does anyone have a link to a paper or a publication that documents the 
motivation behind and original initiators of the pd-extended? I traced 
releases back to 2003 but there is no info on who were original players 
who started it. Thank you.


Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Creative Technologies in Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


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Re: [PD] OSX midi ports visibility

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

This worked perfect. Thank you, Max!


On 10/9/2016 6:09 AM, Max wrote:
Last time I had a OS X machine it was only possible to use the 
internal MIDI instruments via a tiny app SimpleSynth that exposed them 
through a virtual MIDI device.


http://notahat.com/simplesynth/


On 2016년 10월 08일 23:04, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:

Hi all,

I have several students who are trying to use the old pd-extended and
current pure-data and who are unable to connect to their internal
general MIDI synth. Under MIDI settings there are no MIDI output devices
found. I believe this pertains primarily to Yosemite and newer. I wonder
if anyone has any ideas as to why this is so and whether you have a
proposed solution?

Thank you.

Best,







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[PD] OSX midi ports visibility

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Hi all,

I have several students who are trying to use the old pd-extended and 
current pure-data and who are unable to connect to their internal 
general MIDI synth. Under MIDI settings there are no MIDI output devices 
found. I believe this pertains primarily to Yosemite and newer. I wonder 
if anyone has any ideas as to why this is so and whether you have a 
proposed solution?


Thank you.

Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Creative Technologies in Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


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Re: [PD] purr data beta1

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 9/30/2016 4:56 PM, Dan Wilcox wrote:

On Sep 30, 2016, at 2:45 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at 
 wrote:


unfortunately I'm not the one to ask, I don't know anything about 
android. I was asking because I'm (hopefully) doing a big project 
which I would like to do in Pd, and it might have to run on 
independent apps. it would be very nice to use only one flavour of Pd 
for it, and not to use vanilla.


Currently your options on Android and iOS are:

1. use libpd (based on vanilla)
2. nothing


I am glad to hear we have more than one option on this one ;-)


:)


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] Purr Data beta 2

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Jonathan and Alexandre,

coll text editor with all its legacy pdtk calls is inoperable inside 
purr-data. Cyclone and other extern libraries with GUIs may require an 
ifdef for purr-data (or preferably pd-l2ork) and appropriate adaptation.


Best,

Ico


On 10/5/2016 12:56 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

This is the beta 2 release of Purr Data (the GUI port of Pd-l2ork)

Change log:
* compatibility with older osx versions
* fix external library dependencies on OSX
* first try at jack support for OSX
* more fixes for out-of-order messages to GUI
* fix crasher on Windows when opening a help patch
* fix [draw sprite] index wrapping
* fix freeze with [struct float foo;]

This is a beta release, so please report lots of bugs to
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues

Binaries:

Debian Jessie 32-bit: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-i686-jessie-beta2.deb


Debian Jessie 64-bit: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-x86_64-jessie-beta2.deb


Ubuntu 14.04 32-bit: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-i686-ubuntu-14.04-beta2.deb


Ubuntu 14.04 64-bit: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-x86_64-ubuntu-14.04-beta2.deb


Ubuntu 16.04 64-bit: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-x86_64-ubuntu-16.04-beta2.deb


Windows with 64-bit GUI: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-win32-beta2.zip


Windows with 32-bit GUI: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-win64-beta2.zip


OSX 64-bit: 
https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/raw/master/purr-data-osx64-beta2.zip 



-Jonathan


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Re: [PD] purr data beta1

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 9/29/2016 6:04 PM, patrice colet wrote:



Le 29/09/2016 à 23:45, Jonathan Wilkes a écrit :
> Not sure Purr Data will replace anything since sources aren't 
available


https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data



Btw-- successfully building for Windows, OSX, and Gnu/Linux was by _far_
the most time-consuming part of this project.



I'm trying it right now with hoping that it won't crash when jackd is 
stopped, that's the main reason for me to consume time on it.


Did you try pd-l2ork (assuming you have access to Linux)? I thought I 
fixed this a while ago.





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Re: [PD] purr data beta1

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Once Purr Data is stabilized, Pd-L2Ork will merge all of Jonathan's hard 
work and reconcile any differences. Jonathan may want to continue 
maintaining Purr-Data in parallel, or he may be fine with streamlining 
efforts (as was the case prior to the onset of the GUI rewrite). This is 
the nature of open source. Either way users win. As we move forward, 
what I am hoping for is more people becoming contributors.


Best,

Ico


On 9/29/2016 5:14 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:

what is not clear to me is if Purr Data will replace Pd-L2ork

so we could also say "Purr Data is the new Pd-L2ork"

2016-09-29 18:12 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com 
<mailto:por...@gmail.com>>:


Well, for one, I've been saying around: "Purr Data is the New
Extended"...

2016-09-29 16:34 GMT-03:00 Giulio Moro via Pd-list
<pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>:

interesting, can you please elaborate on  this:


> Its design principle is centered around nimble distributed
development which may (and already does) include improvements
in core behavior.

thanks
Giulio
>
> From: Ivica Bukvic <i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>>
>To: Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com
<mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>>
>Cc: Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016, 20:28
>Subject: Re: [PD] purr data beta1
>
>
>
>I think it can only be spiritual successor if you believe it
to be one in part because its philosophy is different. What I
said originally was that I had no explicit intentions on
replacing extended in part because I was not sure what was its
roadmap and whether it had a chance of being developed
further. In other words, I never denied its capacity to
replace extended but also did not want to assert that in any
kind of authoritative way. Hope this helps!
>--
>Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
>Associate Professor
>Computer Music
>ICAT Senior Fellow
>Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
>Virginia Tech
>School of Performing Arts – 0141
>Blacksburg, VA 24061
>(540) 231-6139
>i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>
>www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu>
>disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu>
>l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>
>ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net>
>
>
>On Sep 29, 2016 14:52, "Dan Wilcox" <danomat...@gmail.com
<mailto:danomat...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>In this light, is Purr Data the spiritual successor for
Pd-Extended? As I recall in previous discussions, y'all were
explicit that Pd-L2Ork was not.
>>
>>
>>This question is not meant as a slight in any way. I’m just
curious how this new project fits within your goals and the Pd
community at large.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Dan Wilcox
>>@danomatika
>>danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com>
>>
>>robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com>
>>
>>On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:29 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at
<mailto:pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at> wrote:
>>>
>>>From: Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com
<mailto:por...@gmail.com>>
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: [PD] purr data beta1
>>>
>>>Date: September 29, 2016 at 11:21:49 AM MDT
>>>
>>>To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>"
<pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>In short: A Game Changer!
>>>
>>>
>>>2016-09-29 13:06 GMT-03:00 Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>>:
>>>
>>>Purr-Data is a GUI rewrite for Pd-L2Ork which has over
1,500 patches/bugfixes/improvements over vanilla/extended. Its
design principle is centered around nimble distributed
development which may (and already does) include improvements
in core behavior. Hope this helps!
>>>>
>>>>Best,
>>>>Ico
 

Re: [PD] purr data beta1

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

There are many improvements to the core behavior that are too numerous 
to list. I suggest looking at the changelog. Some that come off top my 
head are trigger object that allows for static declaration (e.g. [t 1 f 
blah] when receives a value will output symbol blah from the third 
outlet, float from second, and 1 from first no matter the input value). 
You can pass any number of arguments by using $@ argument. Pd-l2ork 
doesn't crash if you change a send in the same cycle that the same send 
is used. Tidy up is completely different, JACK disconnect is handled in 
a way that does not produce a hang (this may have been fixed in a 
vanilla--it wasn't that way the last time I checked), etc.


Best,

Ico


On 9/29/2016 3:34 PM, Giulio Moro wrote:

interesting, can you please elaborate on  this:



Its design principle is centered around nimble distributed development which 
may (and already does) include improvements in core behavior.

thanks
Giulio


From: Ivica Bukvic <i...@vt.edu>
To: Dan Wilcox <danomat...@gmail.com>
Cc: Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016, 20:28
Subject: Re: [PD] purr data beta1



I think it can only be spiritual successor if you believe it to be one in part 
because its philosophy is different. What I said originally was that I had no 
explicit intentions on replacing extended in part because I was not sure what 
was its roadmap and whether it had a chance of being developed further. In 
other words, I never denied its capacity to replace extended but also did not 
want to assert that in any kind of authoritative way. Hope this helps!
--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


On Sep 29, 2016 14:52, "Dan Wilcox" <danomat...@gmail.com> wrote:

In this light, is Purr Data the spiritual successor for Pd-Extended? As I 
recall in previous discussions, y'all were explicit that Pd-L2Ork was not.


This question is not meant as a slight in any way. I’m just curious how this 
new project fits within your goals and the Pd community at large.




Dan Wilcox
@danomatika
danomatika.com

robotcowboy.com

On Sep 29, 2016, at 12:29 PM, pd-list-requ...@lists.iem.at wrote:

From: Alexandre Torres Porres <por...@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [PD] purr data beta1

Date: September 29, 2016 at 11:21:49 AM MDT

To: "pd-list@lists.iem.at" <pd-list@lists.iem.at>




In short: A Game Changer!


2016-09-29 13:06 GMT-03:00 Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu>:

Purr-Data is a GUI rewrite for Pd-L2Ork which has over 1,500 
patches/bugfixes/improvements over vanilla/extended. Its design principle is 
centered around nimble distributed development which may (and already does) 
include improvements in core behavior. Hope this helps!

Best,
Ico

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Re: [PD] purr data beta1

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Purr-Data is a GUI rewrite for Pd-L2Ork which has over 1,500 
patches/bugfixes/improvements over vanilla/extended. Its design 
principle is centered around nimble distributed development which may 
(and already does) include improvements in core behavior. Hope this helps!


Best,

Ico


On 9/29/2016 10:48 AM, Giulio Moro via Pd-list wrote:

Jonathan,
I struggle a bit to understand what is the end goal of Purr Data:
as far as I can tell, right now it is a re-implementation of the 
existing GUI in HTML5, which is great.
Once this process is done (and I see we are very close now), how do 
you see the project will evolve? Will it just be about making the GUI 
more portable/customizable or do you foresee changes in the GUI/dsp 
communication protocol as well?


Best,
Giulio



*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres 
*To:* Jonathan Wilkes 
*Cc:* Pd-List 
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 September 2016, 7:12
*Subject:* Re: [PD] purr data beta1

awesome, more and more excited at each new development step

so, Scope~ is already ported, but [comment]  is not working yet,
are you dealing with it?

cheers

2016-09-29 1:51 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list
>:

This is the beta 1 release of Purr Data (the GUI port of Pd-l2ork)

Change log:
* fix many errors in the GUI
* fix position of popup menu when zooming
* fix scalar crasher
* fix gop display error
* fix disappearing $@
* save gui preset with preferences
* fix segfault with preference changes
* fixed many memory leaks with patches backported from Pd Vanilla
* small fixes to help patches
* add text editor window for [text define]
* add and improve the scalar properties dialog
* add default float arg for Pd's "quit" message (good for test
patches)
* updated some external libraries

This is a beta release, so please report lots of bugs to
https://git.purrdata.net/ jwilkes/purr-data/issues


Binaries here:
https://git.purrdata.net/ jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/
tree/master


-Jonathan

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Re: [PD] a multislider GUI as abstraction

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Nice!

FWIW, in vanilla you have an array that can be used as a multislider, 
although it may be difficult to sometimes grab each point. In pd-l2ork 
you have an option of jump on click inside arrays, and a new mode of 
drawing arrays with individual bars whose colors can be customized. With 
this, the array effectively becomes a rather convenient multislider. 
Pd-L2Ork also outputs a bang every time the array has been changed if 
you need to use it for this kind of purpose.


Best,

Ico


On 6/25/2016 11:30 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
2016-06-24 17:38 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli >:


I even like them being abstractions as opposed to compiled externals.


Quite the opposite here :) I'd love to see them as externals and 
included in some library - maybe a max clone for cyclone...



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Re: [PD] Best way to install Pd on Raspberry Pi

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

You could also consider installing a deb that auto-installs everything 
for you in the right locations. Pd-L2Ork offers novice-friendly 
documentation on how to do this:


http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/make-your-own-l2ork/software/raspberry-pi/

HTH

On 6/22/2016 2:50 AM, Derek Kwan wrote:

hello,

you should move the pd binary to /usr/local/bin/

That directory should already be in your PATH and typically binaries any
user can run are put there (if you make install from source, it goes
there as well).

Once you've moved the pd binary to /usr/local/bin, you can type pd not
matter what directory you're in and it'll run.

Derek


Yep,

Raspberry Pi 3
Raspbian Jessie
++

Jack


=
Derek Kwan
www.derekxkwan.com

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Re: [PD] sensing GOP resize

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

FWIW, pd-l2ork offers two bevels for GOP area, one for moving the gop 
frame, and another for resizing it. Similarly, all iemgui objects can be 
easily resized and their labels repositioned. HTH



On 5/23/2016 7:30 PM, Alex wrote:
oh huh, wild.. so you still can't use the mouse to change the bounds 
of a GOP in the GOP patch itself but if you create an object for that 
GOP you can resize that then go in and save and get the resized GOP 
area.. would still really love to have mouse draggable bounds inside 
the GOP abstraction.


On Sun, May 22, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Liam Goodacre > wrote:


Vanilla now has the nice feature that lets you resize objects with
the mouse. Is there any way of detecting this from inside the
patch? It doesn't turn up in iemguts/receivecanvas, but if I could
somehow receive the new coordinates, then I could program the
patch to adapt to the new size.

Alternatively, is there some way to query the GOP area from within
the patch, a bit like [get_pos( to a canvas?

I know this is optimistic, but I thought I'd ask.

PS. I know all about [donecanvasdialog(. In this situation, I
don't think it will help.

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Re: [PD] Collaborating across systems/platforms

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 5/14/2016 9:02 AM, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:


i don't think that Pd-l2ork offers more than that.

While I reckon deciding whether pd-l2ork offers more than pd is very 
much a personal value-driven decision, here are a few things I can think 
of that are unique to pd-l2ork:


*monolithic distro--one download has it all
*infinite undo and a number of usability improvements (advanced 
auto-patching, tidying up, to-front/back options, etc.)
*system-wide presets that can also distinguish between two instances of 
the same abstraction
*K12 mode that allows for newcomers to get started quickly, including 
easy interfacing with wiimotes, arduinos, and raspberry pis; this mode 
is interchangeable with the non-K12 modes and has been used in over 
dozen maker camps and workshops by middle school children all the way up 
to professionals
*accelerated SVG-based GUI (and a new alpha version that uses Chrome's 
node webkit thanks to the hard work by Jonathan)
*unique externals like disis_gpio and disis_spi that offer easy 
integration with RPi, including software PWM on all GPIOs and many other 
features

*out of box flext support with disis_munger~
*the most complete wiimote support for Linux including passthrough mode 
and newest wiimote plus devices using a libCwiid fork we maintain as 
part of pd-l2ork; in L2Ork we connect up to 18 wiimotes in the same 
space on a regular basis without any problems whatsoever

*out of box RTcmix~ external
*improved ggee/image external with support for transparencies, pngs, etc.
*iemgui objects that have handles for easy resizing and automatic font 
adjustment

*searchable documentation browser
*object tooltips
*cord inspector
*over 1,000 patches and bug-fixes

Best,

Ico

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Re: [PD] waveform randomizer

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Really nice work, AP!

On 4/13/2016 2:14 PM, AP Vague wrote:
I wrote a patch to make interesting, pseudo-randomized waveforms in 
real time as a way to add complexity and variation to drones. The 
patch duplicates a table with randomization and uses [tabosc4~] as the 
final oscillators to dac. This version cascades the duplication 
process; table b is a copy of a, c is a copy of b, d is a copy of c. 
The results are pretty interesting and I think the signals could work 
well with other manipulations like filters.


I'm afraid that this might have been the extreme longhand way to do 
this, ha ha ha. It works fine for what I wanted but I thought there 
might be some ideas on how to accomplish it in an easier way. I also 
just kind of wanted to share it.


Cheers.


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Re: [PD] Pd-l2ork GUI port Alpha 0

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Yay!!! Great work, Jonathan!

On 4/8/2016 10:38 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

Hi list,
Here are some binaries to test out the alpha 0 release for the GUI 
port of Pd-l2ork.


OSX doesn't have Gem or PDP, and both Windows and OSX are missing some
Pd-l2ork-related externals.

Bug tracker is here: https://puredata.osuosl.org/jwilkes/purr-data/issues

Binaries are here:
OSX x_64 - 
https://puredata.osuosl.org/purr-data-binaries/osx-64-alpha0/repository/archive.zip?ref=master
Ubuntu 15.10 x_64 - 
https://puredata.osuosl.org/purr-data-binaries/ubuntu-15.10-64-alpha0/repository/archive.zip?ref=master
Ubuntu 14.04 x_64 - 
https://puredata.osuosl.org/purr-data-binaries/ubuntu-14.04-64-alpha0/repository/archive.zip?ref=master
Ubuntu 14.04 i386 - 
https://puredata.osuosl.org/purr-data-binaries/ubuntu-14.04-32-alpha0/repository/archive.zip?ref=master
Debian Jessie x_64 - 
https://puredata.osuosl.org/purr-data-binaries/debian-jessie64-alpha0/repository/archive.zip?ref=master
Debian Jessie i386 - 
https://puredata.osuosl.org/purr-data-binaries/debian-jessie32-alpha0/repository/archive.zip?ref=master
Windows 32-bit - 
https://puredata.osuosl.org/purr-data-binaries/win32-alpha0/repository/archive.zip?ref=master



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Re: [PD] pd and HiDPI

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Copying Albert Graef, who should be able to assist...

On 4/7/2016 10:25 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:
Well, I was going to build the GUI port of Pd-l2ork for Arch to see 
how it handles HiDPI.  But
apparently installing an Arch VM requires me to hand craft the system 
from scrap lumber, so...

sorry... :(

-Jonathan


On Thursday, April 7, 2016 3:20 PM, Orm Finnendahl 
 wrote:



Am Donnerstag, den 07. April 2016 um 18:45:45 Uhr (+) schrieb 
Jonathan Wilkes:

> What architecture is your laptop?
> -Jonathan

64-bit Linux (Intel i7)


--
Orm




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Re: [PD] Missing objects/methods in Pd WAS: objects with no alphanumerical names, how to build them?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Thanks! Googling for OF was not particularly helpful :-)

On 4/6/2016 4:08 PM, Christof Ressi wrote:

It stands for openFrameworks http://openframeworks.cc/



Gesendet: Mittwoch, 06. April 2016 um 22:00 Uhr
Von: "Ivica Ico Bukvic" <i...@vt.edu>
An: pd-list@lists.iem.at
Betreff: Re: [PD] Missing objects/methods in Pd WAS: objects with no 
alphanumerical names, how to build them?

Please pardon my ignorance and [OT] nature of this email--what does OF
stand for and is there a link you may be able to share? Thank you.


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.




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Re: [PD] Missing objects/methods in Pd WAS: objects with no alphanumerical names, how to build them?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Please pardon my ignorance and [OT] nature of this email--what does OF 
stand for and is there a link you may be able to share? Thank you.



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Re: [PD] objects with no alphanumerical names, how to build them?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Another thought could be having hexloader be folded into core pd... It 
is currently autoloaded in pd-l2ork but that approach is still 
susceptible to overrides to the default config. Perhaps we should fold 
it into pd-l2ork? An alternative is having aliases...


On 4/5/2016 10:43 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:



2016-04-05 5:08 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli >:


 If you're simply interested in knowing how things work
technically, fine.


I'd love to know, for sure, that's why I'm asking :)

Now that we have a chance to get rid of all hexloader related kludges,
now you come and bring it up again.


You see, I don't really get what you mean by "hexloader" or its 
related kludges. All I know is some [hexloader] object that is in my 
pd extended 0.42-5, and all I know is that I need to use it in order 
to load the [==~] object from zexy. What you're talking about, 
somehow, relates to that?


Anyway, seems so to me... and if so, the thing is that what I'm asking 
and doing has nothing to do with "hexloader"... (I never even 
mentioned about "hexloader", btw) ... and I read about the "hex 
loader" discussion as suggested, and found stuff that I didn't really 
think was related to my questions. Yeah, like I said, I don't really 
know much and I'd like to know, so I might be missing something, and 
someone can help me with it...


But the thing is, all I asked was how to compile an object like [==~] 
and make it load without being part of a library. I found on deken a 
zexy version that seemed to do that (specifically: 
/zexy-v0-0extended-(Darwin-/i386-32)(Darwin-PowerPC-32)(Darwin-x86_64-32)-externals./tar/). 
And it didn't need a [hexloader] object too, by the way.


I didn't get an answer, but me and my colleague were checking the 
source code from zexy and found some cues. We tried it... and it works!


Now I have an object that is compiled as [==~], it's not part of a 
library, and it loads and works on pd vanilla 0.46-7 64 bits, pd 
vanilla 0.46-7 32 bits and also Pd-Extended 0.42-5 (*_without_* the 
need of the [hexloader] object by the way). All you need is the 
==~.pd_darwin object in a search path.



Speaking and thinking as a user, I think it is easy and great to have 
a working and compiled object that just loads and works, so that is 
what I 'm after.


But anyway, yeah, I wanna know what are the dangers and all...

cheers




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Re: [PD] Help Patches Layout

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

As an alternative idea, perhaps one of the early pd tutorials (e.g. 
introduction) could simply elaborate how the inlets are numbered which 
could be a considerably easier solution.


If you are determined to update all the docs to reflect this change, 
don't forget the PD_META which currently requires the use of 0 as the 
first inlet. Updating tooltips will also require changes accommodate for 
this alteration.


Best,

Ico

On 3/17/2016 1:13 PM, Esteban Viveros wrote:
Thanks Roman for explanations.. good trim the edges of naming things 
in order to eliminate future confusion.


Ivica, I'm thinking in order to provide a relatively see and 
understand for help patch user. Is really necessary expose a new user 
to this problematics?


I'm thinking which not every pd user must be a programmer (at least 
initially), and probably be an artist... (perhaps), thinking this I 
understand the principal goal of the user is to make thinks work, and 
to use the send a message to this object he needs do use $1  $2 $3, if 
he use $0 pd will do other thing.. So name outlets in Help from 0 
require one more step for who are learning many more steps...  (please 
correct me if I'm wrong with regard to the behavior pd)


Finally, open and edit patch by patch I'm already doing.. Rename 
inlets and outlets I can make like meditation! :P


I'm question for these because I know pdL2ork have other libraries and 
have change something like this have consequences. But anyway, if 
needed I can modify some more patches. :) Only it will have some time.


Cheers


Em qui, 17 de mar de 2016 às 13:26, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> escreveu:


Here's my $0-cents worth. This is an eternal struggle in the
world'o'comp sci. We need to wrap our heads around the fact that 0
is the 1st number in any kind of data container, whether it be
value or ordinal position. Yet, as humans we prefer 1 to be that
first number, reserving 0 as the special case value. So, you could
make the case either way arguing for consistency, intuitiveness,
aliens, whatever. Another consideration within the pd* ecosystem
is that it is 0-centric, meaning things tend to start with $0
(patch instance) before they get to $1. Then again, $1 refers to
the first arg, so you could argue it may be inconsistent... etc.
etc. etc.

On the practical side, renaming inlets would mean going through
every last help file and ensuring it has been updated accordingly,
otherwise you would be just adding to more confusion as newcomers
learn that some help files refer to the first inlet as 0 and
others as 1...


On 3/17/2016 11:49 AM, Esteban Viveros wrote:

Hi,

I'm with Porres in Cyclone maintenance working on revision of
some Help patches.

The question is: Why count inlets and outlets from zero if Pd
user have to call inlets and outlets from $1 $2 $3... ? For help
patch user don't be more convenient enumerate inlets and outlets
starting at number 1?

Cheers


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Re: [PD] Help Patches Layout

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Here's my $0-cents worth. This is an eternal struggle in the 
world'o'comp sci. We need to wrap our heads around the fact that 0 is 
the 1st number in any kind of data container, whether it be value or 
ordinal position. Yet, as humans we prefer 1 to be that first number, 
reserving 0 as the special case value. So, you could make the case 
either way arguing for consistency, intuitiveness, aliens, whatever. 
Another consideration within the pd* ecosystem is that it is 0-centric, 
meaning things tend to start with $0 (patch instance) before they get to 
$1. Then again, $1 refers to the first arg, so you could argue it may be 
inconsistent... etc. etc. etc.


On the practical side, renaming inlets would mean going through every 
last help file and ensuring it has been updated accordingly, otherwise 
you would be just adding to more confusion as newcomers learn that some 
help files refer to the first inlet as 0 and others as 1...


On 3/17/2016 11:49 AM, Esteban Viveros wrote:

Hi,

I'm with Porres in Cyclone maintenance working on revision of some 
Help patches.


The question is: Why count inlets and outlets from zero if Pd user 
have to call inlets and outlets from $1 $2 $3... ? For help patch user 
don't be more convenient enumerate inlets and outlets starting at 
number 1?


Cheers


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Re: [PD] ggee [image] problem with jmmmp and all

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

This may be OT--please consider this a feature request within 
pd-vanilla/ggee...


pd-l2ork has @pd_extra keyword you can include with any path and it will 
parse it into extras folder. Its version of ggee/image also allows for 
relative paths and supports transparency/pngs... HTH


Best,

Ico

On 3/10/2016 8:27 AM, Esteban Viveros wrote:

Ok...  I'm debugging here.

Something was wrong because of the order of patching the [getdir] 
machine. When I only delete and put back the patch cord, and rewrite 
the msg with exactly same content, error gone.


At now I have one more question but maybe it's a new thread..

Em qui, 10 de mar de 2016 às 05:31, João Pais > escreveu:



For this test I have installed “ggee” and “jmmmp” on Pd 0.46.7
on Win 8.1.

I have no problems loading “rgb.ppm” for  João`s swatch-gui.pd.

João I recommend that you change the 2nd line in swatch-gui.pd:

#X obj 150 53 image
E:/jmmmp/elektronik/pd-jmp/jmmmp-ext/svn/jmmmp/examples/rgb.ppm;

to

#X obj 150 53 image examples/rgb.ppm;

but only if you want.


You're right, I wasn't aware that the absolute path was recorded
there. I uploaded a new release (also with jp.menu, a new
abstraction). You can find it with deken - although something
strange is happening right now with the puredata wiki, the release
link is failing. It it doesn't sort itself out in some hours, I'll
put up another release this evening.

Best,

Joao



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Re: [PD] hurleur ?... (drag and drop feature)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

in pd-extended a folder called "tkdnd2.6" was located in the "lib" 
folder. is this all that's needed or do i need to do anything else.


and where does you plugin go ? into the "tkdnd2.6" folder ?


tkdnd seems to be installed then...
put  pure-data-svn/scripts/guiplugins/dropsuite-plugin/ folder into 
your pd-external folder, restart pd

if it doesn't complain about missing something that's all.


FWIW, pd-l2ork comes prepackaged with this one... HTH

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Re: [PD] How's Pd limited?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I forget, does the mouse cursor change when you hover? Last time I 
checked in vanilla it didn't but that was a while ago. If not, it may 
help make it easier to expose the said feature and aim for the sweet spot.


On 2/23/2016 5:44 AM, Dan Wilcox wrote:
Em ter, 23 de fev de 2016 às 00:56, Matt Barber > escreveu:


Newest vanilla has basic object resize, which actually helps a
lot with some of the issues brought up here. It's also very
helpful that comments can be resized, so you can set the wrap point.

Cool.. I'm using pd 0.46-7, what's that object? :)


Hover your mouse over the right side of an object box and drag…


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] How's Pd limited?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 2/22/2016 11:40 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

> Max have features like auto-align horizontally/vertically

Pd-l2ork has this, too-- "Tidy Up" in the Edit menu.  It's a little 
strange-- if you click it once it will sweep the selected objects into a
"pile", and if you click again it will fan them out like a deck of 
cards.  But it can work well for some situations.


This is because in pd-l2ork first press on tidy up aligns objects to the 
closest axis. This can sometimes make objects overlap, even though they 
are aligned across a desired axis (e.g. if you duplicate an object a 
couple times and then try to align it with duplicated objects). That is 
why there is the second press which spaces out objects according to the 
shortest space between them unless the shortest space is an actual 
overlap in which case it respaces it by a default spacing value that is 
applied to the right side of the object to the left. Now, if you can 
understand what I wrote in one read, go get yourself (if age < 21 && 
location == USA; then popsicle; else beer;)



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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

FWIW, Fred, if there is a way to convince you to allow for adding new 
objects, I would certainly like to second that. In the eyes of new pd 
users who are familiar with Max, Cyclone is not only a Max 4.6 
compatibility library, it is first and foremost Max compatibility 
library and that would suggest newer objects should be in there. I 
imagine the only reason they simply weren't already added is likely due 
to lack of a developer and maintainer. The last thing pd community needs 
is yet another library that may end-up without a maintainer. The 
confusion one will have to deal with by creating cyclone/prepend vs. 
/pong is pointless at best. If maintaining library 
overhead is a concern, please note we've already done a fair amount of 
creating updated help files for the entire cyclone library in pd-l2ork, 
as well as fixing and upgrading a number of objects, all of which I've 
gladly shared with you and continue to contribute as much as you allow 
and my time permits. But please, let's not start yet another library. If 
anything, we should look into consolidating. Pd-L2Ork has already 
started doing this. e.g. one of the examples brought up regarding Eric 
Lyon's potpourri and cyclone's cartopol~ and poltocar~, in pd-l2ork, 
potpourri objects are not being built because they are not necessary. 
All this with the goal of eventually doing away with 
subfolders/declares/imports and other middleware and simply having all 
the best externals in one folder and getting rid of the rest (or perhaps 
adding them in the unsupported/legacy subfolder). In such an ecosystem 
PD META will take care of the attribution and bug reporting and we'll be 
all better for it, particularly in terms of encouraging new users to 
join the pd community.


On 2/17/2016 1:33 PM, Fred Jan Kraan wrote:

Hi Alexandre,


Howdy, if you understand only a part of it, I know that I know about
nothing.

But hey, as I understand it, there's quite some work to make it (loading
the weird name objects without [declare]) happen and you'd rather focus
on other fixes, cool.

Well, I'm just starting using github
https://github.com/porres/pd-cyclone
 
and

have mobilized others to collaborate with new objects for cyclone,
according to that list I shared these days.

You may have noticed a pull request already for [pong]. I'm working with
someone else and we should be having scale / scale~ / atodb / dbtoa /
atodb~ / dbtoa~ / trunc~ ready quite soon!


Yes, I noticed. I appreciate all you do for pd and cyclone in 
particular, but I cannot accept the request. Cyclone is one of the few 
libraries with a closed set of objects; only those part of Max/MSP, 
arbitrary set around version 4.6 or 5.


Cyclone is already quite big, with 150+ objects. This seems a good 
reason to be selective in which objects should be added. Just because 
objects are or should be in Max/MSP is not reason enough. If it exists 
in another library, it is unneeded IMHO.


I can bother myself to try and deal with the issues regarding these
objects, but I think a start could be to create new objects with the
unweird names, this is not in conflict with Max compatibility, as it
also loads these objects via the same way (again, they'd be:
/greaterthan~ / greaterthaneq~ / lessthan~ / lessthaneq~ / equals~ /
notequals~ / plusequals~ / rminus~ / rminus / rdiv~ /  rdiv / modulo~/).
It wouldn't get in conflict with current state of cyclone either and the
help files of these objects could refer to nettles and all. Cool? Later
on in the game I can try and figure out how to load them without 
declare.


Personally I have no issue with [declare] as it is vanilla. Or with 
the weird names; if you want un-weird names, abstractions (containing 
[declare] should work too?


cheers

cheers


Greetings,

Fred Jan

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Re: [PD] Nettles. Was: Cyclone: List of Issues with existing objects by Alexandre Porres

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Why not simply have an inlet that can handle both inside an abstraction 
and route signal one way and number the other and then sprinkle that 
with dynamic nlet creation and you're done? Then you can simply abstract 
most cases.


On 2/14/2016 11:36 AM, Matt Barber wrote:
[gt~] is a great example of something that could work as an 
abstraction, except for the pesky right inlet which should take a 
signal if there's no creation argument, but float otherwise.


On Sun, Feb 14, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Ivica Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:


What I am also trying to do eventually in pd-l2ork is weed out
redundant objects and only keep the ones that do the said task the
best while still supporting other objects' idiosyncrasies (if
any). There is absolutely no reason to have multiple objects of
the same kind. Ultimately, one could keep all the externals in the
same folder and completely do away with all the declares, imports,
and other things that make learning pd unnecessarily harder.

-- 
    Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.

Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139 <tel:%28540%29%20231-6139>
i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>
www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu>
disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>
ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net>

On Feb 14, 2016 8:40 AM, "Fred Jan Kraan" <fjkr...@xs4all.nl
<mailto:fjkr...@xs4all.nl>> wrote:

Hi Alexandre,

guess some of it is in:

http://fjkraan.home.xs4all.nl/digaud/puredata/cyclone/cycloneToDo.html


This list is also becoming a list of what has been done.


As with _nettles_

"try to resurrect as independent object library"

Anyway, tell me if this gets includes on this file.


Yes, the nettles-objects are part of the latest cyclone
versions. They are part of the nettles library, which can be
loaded with [declare]. Not all operating systems like the '<'
and '>' in the object names and there is overlap with other
library objects, so only loading them when needed is cleaner.


cheers

ps. count me in for help with the help files


Great!

Greetings,

Fred Jan


2016-02-11 22:18 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres
<por...@gmail.com <mailto:por...@gmail.com>
<mailto:por...@gmail.com <mailto:por...@gmail.com>>>:

Howdy, it's a known fact brazilians will start the
year only after
carnival, so here I am.

I'd like to share my list of things to do with
existing Cyclone
Objetcs. Obviously there might be other issues with
other objects
that would make them up to date with the current
version of Max (Max
7). Nonetheless, this is what I find relevant, and
I've been really
checking it through.

It's only about 11 objects, some has already been
discussed here and
might have been fixed or in the process to be taken
care of, forgive
me if so.

I have it attached and also as a link to a google doc


https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L_dUNgznfhaZHPKMJ3jJ_p9uIXRVP6Rs9-3nXy2Qlk8/edit?usp=sharing

Next, I will get together a list of new objects I
think should be
included, many of which I've already made as
abstractions (kind of
to show how it works like I did with [teeth~], cause I
really think
they should all be done as externals).

Cheers



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Re: [PD] freeverb~ problem

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I thought this, too. I seem to (mis)remember somewhere that -O2 
optimization at compile-time would help with this, which is what 
pd-l2ork's freeverb~ uses and still exhibits previously reported 
behavior. That said, I wonder if denormals would also solve potential 
NaNs. At any rate, I've updated freeverb~ to explicitly use denormal 
function's return value in pd-l2ork and will run some tests and let you 
know. If you'd like to test it out, download the latest deb dated 
20160208 (64bit build only for the time being).


Best,

Ico

On 2/8/2016 4:44 AM, Kjetil Matheussen wrote:

Regarding denormals, if that's the problem, shouldn't it be good enough
to compile with -fpmath=sse -msse2 and run the following code one time 
in the dsp thread?


#ifdef __SSE__
#ifdef __SSE2__
#define AVOIDDENORMALS _mm_setcsr(_mm_getcsr() | 0x8040)
#else
#define AVOIDDENORMALS _mm_setcsr(_mm_getcsr() | 0x8000)
#endif
#else
#   error "must compile with -fmpath=sse"
#endif




On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 10:28 AM, Kjetil Matheussen 
<k.s.matheus...@gmail.com <mailto:k.s.matheus...@gmail.com>> wrote:


You could use the faust version of freeverb and compile it for pd.
It's probably less likely to have bugs.
For instance by pasting

http://sourceforge.net/p/faudiostream/code/ci/master/tree/examples/freeverb.dsp?format=raw
into http://faust.grame.fr/onlinecompiler/


On Sun, Feb 7, 2016 at 4:08 AM, Ivica Bukvic <i...@vt.edu
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:

Thank you, Katja. Is there a newer version than this out there?

    Best,

    -- 
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.

Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139 <tel:%28540%29%20231-6139>
i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>
www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu>
disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>
ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net>

On Feb 6, 2016 10:25 AM, "katja" <katjavet...@gmail.com
<mailto:katjavet...@gmail.com>> wrote:

If the freeverb~ version you use looks like the one in

http://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/svn/HEAD/tree/trunk/externals/freeverb~/freeverb~.c

<http://sourceforge.net/p/pure-data/svn/HEAD/tree/trunk/externals/freeverb%7E/freeverb%7E.c>,
there's a function 'fix_denorm_nan_float() defined
starting at line
154. The function is called later (in line 225 and others)
but the
return value is never stored. Therefore freeverb~ doesn't
flush
denormals.

On Sat, Feb 6, 2016 at 3:34 PM, Ivica Bukvic <i...@vt.edu
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:
> Thank you all. Looks like I've got some troubleshooting
to do and will
        > report what I find.
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
> Associate Professor
> Computer Music
> ICAT Senior Fellow
> Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
> Virginia Tech
> School of Performing Arts – 0141
> Blacksburg, VA 24061
> (540) 231-6139 <tel:%28540%29%20231-6139>
> i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>
> www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu>
> disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu>
> l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>
> ico.bukvic.net <http://ico.bukvic.net>
>
> On Feb 6, 2016 9:20 AM, "IOhannes m zmölnig"
<zmoel...@iem.at <mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>> wrote:
>>
>> On 02/06/2016 10:29 AM, katja wrote:
>> > Possibly an inf or nan recirculating in the delay
lines? It seems that
>> > freeverb~ calls function fix_denorm_nan_float(float
v) but doesn't use
>> > the return value.
>>
>> you *might* be able to confirm this by sending the
output for
>> [freeverb~] to [print~] (the silent samples would be
NaN or Inf rather
>> than 0 (or some other constant value))
>>
>> gamds
>> IOhannes
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>&g

[PD] freeverb~ problem

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

All,

I've encountered a new issue with freeverb~. I am having a hard time 
isolating the source as it happens so sporadically (although it is 
always linked with the sudden drop in input and possibly a low frequency 
impulse) but it does not seem like it is a denormal problem because when 
it happens, I get a small burst of noise followed by nothing even though 
CPU is not getting pegged. The rest of the patch works fine but the 
freeverb is for all intents and purposes dead. It does not do anything 
until it is deleted and recreated. Any ideas what may be the cause of 
this? In the said example I only use one input (left). Could that have 
to do something with it? The object is compiled on 64-bit Linux with -O2 
optimizations (IIRC).


Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Creative Technologies in Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


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Re: [PD] Is there a working Pd -> VST implementation?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Is this an open source project? There appears to be plenty of 
documentation on the site but no downloads available.


On 2/4/2016 4:23 PM, Joe White wrote:

Hi Matti,

We're working on Heavy  which will translate 
Pd patches into VSTs  with a 
small amount of markup. Source code and compiled binaries for OSX and 
Win 32/64bit are provided.


Cheers,
Joe

On 4 February 2016 at 20:27, Matti Viljamaa > wrote:


I found some references of PdVST
(https://puredata.info/downloads/pdvst), but it seemed to be only
for Windows and all the info seemed outdated.

Is there some active implementation for running Pd in DAWs?

-Matti

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Re: [PD] Is there a working Pd -> VST implementation?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

How about Heavy? Its git has only readme.md.

On 2/4/2016 7:33 PM, Scott R. Looney wrote:
hey there, i followed the download links to Github where it looks like 
there is source. there's no indication of license for their source but 
it uses Juce which i think has a GPL option:


https://github.com/logsol/pd-pulp

hope this helps,
scott

On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:


Is this an open source project? There appears to be plenty of
documentation on the site but no downloads available.


On 2/4/2016 4:23 PM, Joe White wrote:

Hi Matti,

We're working on Heavy <https://enzienaudio.com> which will
translate Pd patches into VSTs
<https://enzienaudio.com/docs/vst2.html> with a small amount of
markup. Source code and compiled binaries for OSX and Win
32/64bit are provided.

Cheers,
Joe

On 4 February 2016 at 20:27, Matti Viljamaa <mvilja...@kapsi.fi
<mailto:mvilja...@kapsi.fi>> wrote:

I found some references of PdVST
(https://puredata.info/downloads/pdvst), but it seemed to be
only for Windows and all the info seemed outdated.

Is there some active implementation for running Pd in DAWs?

-Matti

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Re: [PD] pd-l2ork loading "pix_" libraries (gem)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

It supports all Ubuntu and Debian releases with other distros being 
supported by third parties. I however don't build anything other than 
what I need. At some point I will need to follow-up with Albert Graef to 
set up the launchpad, so that we get automatic builds for all distros 
concurrently. Until then, you will need to build your own using 
tar_em_up.sh -B


HTH

On 1/24/2016 1:09 PM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

I'm on Ubuntu 14.04. pd-l2ork supports only latest ubuntu(15.10)?

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:


Are you running Ubuntu 15.10? If not, you will need to compile
your own.


On 1/22/2016 4:48 PM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

hi list,

I can't load pix_libraries on pd-l2ork 20151230. non-pix
libraries works like gemhead, gemwin, but "pix_something"
doesn't works. missing libraries?

thanks,
jonghyun





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Re: [PD] pd-l2ork loading "pix_" libraries (gem)

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Are you running Ubuntu 15.10? If not, you will need to compile your own.

On 1/22/2016 4:48 PM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

hi list,

I can't load pix_libraries on pd-l2ork 20151230. non-pix libraries 
works like gemhead, gemwin, but "pix_something" doesn't works. missing 
libraries?


thanks,
jonghyun



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Re: [PD] pd-l2ork can't grab multiple audio outputs

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

There is also per-user settings file located in the ~/.pd-l2ork (or 
~/.pdl2ork, can't remember which), which is created every time you apply 
audio settings. That said, command line parameters trump both the 
system-wide one (the one Jonghyun pointed out), and the one in your 
~/.pd-l2ork folder. Please note that start-up icon starts with stereo 
flags (see /usr/share/applications/pd-l2ork.desktop for more info what 
default settings it uses). HTH


On 1/20/2016 9:35 AM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

i found solution to fix it.

pd-l2ork's default exec was:
Exec=pd-l2ork -rt -jack -audiobuf 20 -inchannels 2 -outchannels 2 
-alsamidi -mididev 0 %U


to edit this file,
$ sudo nano /usr/share/applications/pd-l2ork.desktop

but if you want to use more outputs, modify this.
-inchannels 12
-outchaanels 12
etc..

thanks,
jonghyun

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Jonghyun Kim > wrote:


in addition, it also doesn't store the changes(audio card setup)
in preference.

i'm on ubuntu 14.04 64bit.


On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Jonghyun Kim
> wrote:

hi list,

in pd-l2ork ver. 20151130 i can't use multiple outputs. i have
8 in 8 out audio interface, and it routes with jack. it works
well with other applications, but only pd-l2ork can't grab this.

differing from this, in pd 0.46-7 multiple output works as dac
5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 1, 2 are same as 5, 6.

how can i use multiple output in pd-l2ork?

thanks,
jonghyun





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Re: [PD] pd-l2ork can't grab multiple audio outputs

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I think it depends whether it is able to detect the soundcard properly 
but I honestly don't remember.


On 1/20/2016 10:32 AM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
What happens if we remove the inchannels and outchannels flag from the 
pd-l2ork.desktop file?  Doesn't

Pd just default to pairs of in/out chans anyway?




On Wednesday, January 20, 2016 9:55 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu> 
wrote:



There is also per-user settings file located in the ~/.pd-l2ork (or 
~/.pdl2ork, can't remember which), which is created every time you 
apply audio settings. That said, command line parameters trump both 
the system-wide one (the one Jonghyun pointed out), and the one in 
your ~/.pd-l2ork folder. Please note that start-up icon starts with 
stereo flags (see /usr/share/applications/pd-l2ork.desktop for more 
info what default settings it uses). HTH


On 1/20/2016 9:35 AM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

i found solution to fix it.

pd-l2ork's default exec was:
Exec=pd-l2ork -rt -jack -audiobuf 20 -inchannels 2 -outchannels 2 
-alsamidi -mididev 0 %U


to edit this file,
$ sudo nano /usr/share/applications/pd-l2ork.desktop

but if you want to use more outputs, modify this.
-inchannels 12
-outchaanels 12
etc..

thanks,
jonghyun

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Jonghyun Kim <agitato...@gmail.com 
<mailto:agitato...@gmail.com>> wrote:


in addition, it also doesn't store the changes(audio card setup)
in preference.

i'm on ubuntu 14.04 64bit.


On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Jonghyun Kim
<agitato...@gmail.com <mailto:agitato...@gmail.com>> wrote:

hi list,

in pd-l2ork ver. 20151130 i can't use multiple outputs. i
have 8 in 8 out audio interface, and it routes with jack. it
works well with other applications, but only pd-l2ork can't
grab this.

differing from this, in pd 0.46-7 multiple output works as
dac 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 1, 2 are same as 5, 6.

how can i use multiple output in pd-l2ork?

thanks,
jonghyun






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Re: [PD] pd-l2ork can't grab multiple audio outputs

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Also, please note there is a newer version of pd-l2ork (20160118) 
available on L2Ork's website which addresses a few minor but nonetheless 
important bugs and regressions relevant to those interested in live coding.


Best,

Ico

On 1/20/2016 9:53 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
There is also per-user settings file located in the ~/.pd-l2ork (or 
~/.pdl2ork, can't remember which), which is created every time you 
apply audio settings. That said, command line parameters trump both 
the system-wide one (the one Jonghyun pointed out), and the one in 
your ~/.pd-l2ork folder. Please note that start-up icon starts with 
stereo flags (see /usr/share/applications/pd-l2ork.desktop for more 
info what default settings it uses). HTH


On 1/20/2016 9:35 AM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

i found solution to fix it.

pd-l2ork's default exec was:
Exec=pd-l2ork -rt -jack -audiobuf 20 -inchannels 2 -outchannels 2 
-alsamidi -mididev 0 %U


to edit this file,
$ sudo nano /usr/share/applications/pd-l2ork.desktop

but if you want to use more outputs, modify this.
-inchannels 12
-outchaanels 12
etc..

thanks,
jonghyun

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Jonghyun Kim <agitato...@gmail.com 
<mailto:agitato...@gmail.com>> wrote:


in addition, it also doesn't store the changes(audio card setup)
in preference.

i'm on ubuntu 14.04 64bit.


On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 11:21 PM, Jonghyun Kim
<agitato...@gmail.com> wrote:

hi list,

in pd-l2ork ver. 20151130 i can't use multiple outputs. i
have 8 in 8 out audio interface, and it routes with jack. it
works well with other applications, but only pd-l2ork can't
grab this.

differing from this, in pd 0.46-7 multiple output works as
dac 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12 and 1, 2 are same as 5, 6.

how can i use multiple output in pd-l2ork?

thanks,
jonghyun







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Re: [PD] animation api

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

The following is going somewhat OT but nonetheless based on this very 
interesting topic: application framerate is no more deterministic than 
the proposed idea. Just because monitor refreshes at 60Hz doesn't mean 
the app will do the same or consistently. Yet, pegging GUI updates at 
60Hz (think speedlim-like behavior) despite all the loose ends will 
undoubtedly provide improved responsiveness over a GUI where one can 
send sub-millisecond change requests, most of which will never see the 
light of the day, despite eating up tons of CPU and in all likelihood 
bringing it down to its knees.


On 1/4/2016 9:32 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

Having an animation method allows GUI-side optimizations that aren't
possible when the animation is smeared across the socket/parser/eval'er.

Determinism: GUI rendering isn't deterministic, at least not in the 
way Pd's

scheduler is.  For example, how could the GUI (tcl/tk or otherwise) even
know that it missed a deadline?

I guess the simple API I'm toying with is "stretching the accordion" 
so to

speak, and potentially showing the cracks more explicitly with a longer
running animation than can currently be seen in Pd's GUI. But that can be
remedied, either by recursively halving a single animation into 
smaller ones,

or just giving up and using [line].

The greater benefit is that more elegant types of visual feedback become
possible without being discarded out of hand due to their potential for
audio interruption.

-Jonathan

On Monday, January 4, 2016 5:20 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu> wrote:


On 1/3/2016 3:24 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
It's actually way more simplistic than that-- just an "animate" 
method that
wraps around whatever attribute is available to the drawing command.  
All
I'll have is a ramp time, an optional delay time, and an optional 
easing curve.

That will make it a bit like a [vline~] for GUI side animation.

I'm using the web animations API because it makes things very simple, 
even

to do complex things like animating path data.

The idea is that this would open up some modest visualization 
opportunities

that are otherwise too cpu intensive.  For example, if you're animating
using [line] the socket messages can quickly get in the way of the audio.


Will you at some point drown the CPU? Sure, but that is no different 
than a million of other ways of doing the same. OTOH, implementing the 
animation this way helps you ensure that your animation remains in 
sync with the audio, which to me seems much better gain than a 
potential CPU/socket overhead may be a shortcoming.


There could be some very cool ways of filtering gui messages, as well 
(short of getting rid of the socket-based communication in favor of a 
shared memory/multithreaded design). For instance, your animation 
object could be given the screen refresh rate and therefore it would 
not send out a message via a socket unless a desired frame-worth of 
time has transpired since the last message was sent. This would do 
wonders not just in terms of animation, but also the overall gui 
responsiveness, if implemented system-wide.


Best,

Ico




-Jonathan








On Sunday, January 3, 2016 1:08 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu> 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu> wrote:



I think it may make sense in addition to having a 
one-shot-independent animations that have no guarantee of staying in 
sync with the audio (e.g. these could be useful for mouse-over button 
animations) that your animation object can also receive a decimal 
value between its originator and destination, allowing for each 
keyframe to be a whole number. So, 0-1 would interpolate between the 
starting state and first keyframe, 1-2 between first and second 
keyframes, etc., and thus allow pd to use its timing mechanism to 
project changes in animation state via a line object, a counter or 
something similar. IIRC most (all?) HTML5-based animations can be 
triggered as independent events or can be given a specific percentage 
value. The one-shot object could interact with independent events, 
while the proposed object could interact with the latter.


That said, not knowing how you have imagined your animation object, 
it may be tricky to implement this as it would require object to keep 
track of all the keyframed events (assuming there are more than one). 
If you are thinking of having the animation object track only one 
single animation (e.g. something progressing from 30% to 90%), the 
same could still prove useful except in this case you would only 
allow for values between 0 and 1.


On 1/2/2016 1:12 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

Hi list,
I'm playing with adding a simple animation api to data structure 
drawing commands.
The parameters will be sent to the GUI, and the GUI will take care 
of the ramp, delay, etc.


I'm thinking of just making it a simple "set it and forget it" api.  
That is, you send a message
with your ramp and delay times to the GUI, an

Re: [PD] animation api

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 1/3/2016 3:24 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
It's actually way more simplistic than that-- just an "animate" method 
that

wraps around whatever attribute is available to the drawing command.  All
I'll have is a ramp time, an optional delay time, and an optional 
easing curve.

That will make it a bit like a [vline~] for GUI side animation.

I'm using the web animations API because it makes things very simple, 
even

to do complex things like animating path data.

The idea is that this would open up some modest visualization 
opportunities

that are otherwise too cpu intensive.  For example, if you're animating
using [line] the socket messages can quickly get in the way of the audio.


Will you at some point drown the CPU? Sure, but that is no different 
than a million of other ways of doing the same. OTOH, implementing the 
animation this way helps you ensure that your animation remains in sync 
with the audio, which to me seems much better gain than a potential 
CPU/socket overhead may be a shortcoming.


There could be some very cool ways of filtering gui messages, as well 
(short of getting rid of the socket-based communication in favor of a 
shared memory/multithreaded design). For instance, your animation object 
could be given the screen refresh rate and therefore it would not send 
out a message via a socket unless a desired frame-worth of time has 
transpired since the last message was sent. This would do wonders not 
just in terms of animation, but also the overall gui responsiveness, if 
implemented system-wide.


Best,

Ico



-Jonathan








On Sunday, January 3, 2016 1:08 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu> wrote:


I think it may make sense in addition to having a one-shot-independent 
animations that have no guarantee of staying in sync with the audio 
(e.g. these could be useful for mouse-over button animations) that 
your animation object can also receive a decimal value between its 
originator and destination, allowing for each keyframe to be a whole 
number. So, 0-1 would interpolate between the starting state and first 
keyframe, 1-2 between first and second keyframes, etc., and thus allow 
pd to use its timing mechanism to project changes in animation state 
via a line object, a counter or something similar. IIRC most (all?) 
HTML5-based animations can be triggered as independent events or can 
be given a specific percentage value. The one-shot object could 
interact with independent events, while the proposed object could 
interact with the latter.


That said, not knowing how you have imagined your animation object, it 
may be tricky to implement this as it would require object to keep 
track of all the keyframed events (assuming there are more than one). 
If you are thinking of having the animation object track only one 
single animation (e.g. something progressing from 30% to 90%), the 
same could still prove useful except in this case you would only allow 
for values between 0 and 1.


On 1/2/2016 1:12 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

Hi list,
I'm playing with adding a simple animation api to data structure 
drawing commands.
The parameters will be sent to the GUI, and the GUI will take care of 
the ramp, delay, etc.


I'm thinking of just making it a simple "set it and forget it" api.  
That is, you send a message
with your ramp and delay times to the GUI, and you just blindly trust 
that the GUI will make
things happen in the right amount of time.  The alternative I can 
think of is to have the GUI
call back when an animation is finished, but that would encourage 
mixing the two clocks

(i.e., GUI and Pd clock) in unpredictable
ways.

Does this simple approach seem like a reasonable design?  The biggest 
problem would be that
a long-running animation could skew.  But in that case you could 
probably amortize the cost of

sending more messages over the longer time period.

-Jonathan


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Re: [PD] animation api

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I think it may make sense in addition to having a one-shot-independent 
animations that have no guarantee of staying in sync with the audio 
(e.g. these could be useful for mouse-over button animations) that your 
animation object can also receive a decimal value between its originator 
and destination, allowing for each keyframe to be a whole number. So, 
0-1 would interpolate between the starting state and first keyframe, 1-2 
between first and second keyframes, etc., and thus allow pd to use its 
timing mechanism to project changes in animation state via a line 
object, a counter or something similar. IIRC most (all?) HTML5-based 
animations can be triggered as independent events or can be given a 
specific percentage value. The one-shot object could interact with 
independent events, while the proposed object could interact with the 
latter.


That said, not knowing how you have imagined your animation object, it 
may be tricky to implement this as it would require object to keep track 
of all the keyframed events (assuming there are more than one). If you 
are thinking of having the animation object track only one single 
animation (e.g. something progressing from 30% to 90%), the same could 
still prove useful except in this case you would only allow for values 
between 0 and 1.


On 1/2/2016 1:12 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

Hi list,
I'm playing with adding a simple animation api to data structure 
drawing commands.
The parameters will be sent to the GUI, and the GUI will take care of 
the ramp, delay, etc.


I'm thinking of just making it a simple "set it and forget it" api.  
That is, you send a message
with your ramp and delay times to the GUI, and you just blindly trust 
that the GUI will make
things happen in the right amount of time.  The alternative I can 
think of is to have the GUI
call back when an animation is finished, but that would encourage 
mixing the two clocks

(i.e., GUI and Pd clock) in unpredictable
ways.

Does this simple approach seem like a reasonable design?  The biggest 
problem would be that
a long-running animation could skew.  But in that case you could 
probably amortize the cost of

sending more messages over the longer time period.

-Jonathan


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[PD] [PD-announce] ANN: Contemplative Practices for the 21st Century University -- call for submissions

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Apologies for x-posting--please consider sharing this announcement with 
your colleagues/constituents.


I am pleased to announce the call for works (papers, posters, 
installations, and performance works) for the upcoming Contemplative 
Practices for the 21st Century University conference that will take 
place at Virginia Tech, March 10-12, 2016.


As part of the conference, Virginia Tech Institute for Creativity, Arts, 
and Technology (ICAT) invites proposals for art, installations, and 
technology demonstrations with focus on contemplative practice. While 
proposed art and installations should also leverage technology, within 
the context of this submission we define technology in the broadest 
terms possible. All submissions will be reviewed by an interdisciplinary 
panel consisting of ICAT faculty and will be assessed on their 
feasibility within the context of available conference infrastructure 
and resources. Selected projects will be showcased as part of the 
reception and a concert at the Moss Arts Center. Where appropriate, some 
submissions may be also presented in a paper and/or poster format as 
part of the "Technology" track. Authors of selected submissions will be 
expected to attend the conference. We are particularly interested in 
performance works that leverage ICAT's unique infrastructure, including 
Cube and Perform Studio. To apply, please see the ICAT Submissions Form 
on the website below. The deadline for submissions is December 18, 2015.


http://www.cpe.vt.edu/cptcu/submissions.html

Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu


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[PD] [PD-announce] ANN: competitive research assistantship available at Virginia Tech/ICAT/DISIS

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Apologies for x-posting, I would greatly appreciate it if you would 
please disseminate the following among prospective graduate students.


I am pleased to announce availability of a competitive ICAT graduate 
research assistantship starting with the academic year 2016-7. We are 
specifically looking for students who are interested in studying in the 
newfound Human-Centered Design (HCD) transdisciplinary individualized 
PhD and/or Computer Science's Human-Computer Interaction (HCI). We are 
also willing to consider Masters level applicants to the CS program with 
focus on HCI.


HCD Option
Virginia Tech's new individualized Human-Centered Design (HCD) iPhD
transdisciplinary degree is closely aligned with the newfound Institute 
for Creativity, Arts, and Technology (ICAT). iPhD is a degree designed 
primarily to support individually tailored PhD experiences, allowing 
students to actively participate in shaping their plan of study.


CS HCI Option
The graduate program in the Department of Computer Science at Virginia 
Tech is on its way to becoming one of the top programs in the country. 
The resources and facilities for research areas such as human-computer 
interaction, bioinformatics, and high-end computing are state of the 
art, and the growing list of specialized masters and doctoral degrees in 
a variety of areas provides opportunities for students to concentrate 
their research and study on the specific aspects of computer science in 
which they are most interested. At Virginia Tech, students receive 
firsthand instruction by award-winning faculty. In the computer science 
department, that means that graduate students have the opportunity to 
learn from the professors who have helped to define today's computer 
industry. The Center for Human-Computer Interaction is a part of ICAT, 
offering a diverse infrastructure and human expertise for cutting-edge 
research.


The GAship in question seeks candidates with a solid research 
background, and a strong sense of independence and self-sufficiency. We 
are particularly seeking students interested in sonification, sound 
spatialization, and interactive technologies (e.g. mind-body 
technologies, laptop/mobile ensembles, hyperinstruments, installations, 
mobile/wearable computing, etc.). Candidates must possess a strong 
knowledge of Max and Pd/Pd-L2Ork programming environments. C/C++ 
programming (or equivalent) is also preferred, as well as skills in 
other domains (e.g. interactive multimedia, K-12 education, 3D 
animation, etc.).


This is a renewable assistantship with a full tuition waiver and
a stipend. To be eligible candidates need to apply, be accepted, and 
enroll in the new HCD iPhD or the Human-Computer Interaction Computer 
Science program with primary focus in the computer music domain focusing 
on one or more of the aforesaid areas of interest.


The successful candidate will be given an opportunity to participate in
conducting reserarch using the cutting edge 148 speaker system and 
consequently its innovative spatialization, sonification, and immersion 
approaches in the new $100M Moss Arts Center and more specifically 
Institute for Creativity, Arts, and Technology's three-story Cube space 
and its smaller counterpart, the immersive Perform Studio, as well as 
the new DISIS facilities, a part of a $600,000 renovation that opened in 
January 2015. They will also work closely with ICAT faculty and

students on a number of collaborative projects, including Tech or Treat,
Maker camps, and other ICAT initiatives.

For questions and application information please contact Dr. Ivica Ico 
Bukvic <i...@vt.edu>


For more information:
ICAT http://www.icat.vt.edu
DISIS http://disis.icat.vt.edu
L2Ork http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu
HCD http://www.vthcd.com/

Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu


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[PD] [PD-announce] ANN: pd-l2ork version 20151018 now available

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Apologies for x-posting,

Despite original intentions of not having any more major releases before 
the next GUI-rewrite version is out, I am about to eat my own words and 
announce pd-l2ork 20151018.


Release highlights:

*rtcmix~ external
*native lyonpotpourri library
*native fftease library
*new autotune~ external based on the latest version autotalent ladspa 
plugin and aututuned~ external
*merged latest developments in the cyclone library with pd-l2ork's 
improvements, including pd-l2ork's threaded coll object that allows 
loading of large files without xruns

*minor bug fixes and cosmetic improvements

For a raw (unedited) changelog and a more detailed overview, please visit:
https://puredata.info/downloads/Pd-L2Ork/releases/20151018

To download pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56

NB: Currently only Ubuntu 14.04 64bit build is available, with 32bit and 
Raspberry Pi builds forthcoming.


About Pd-L2Ork
Pd-L2Ork is a fork of the ubiquitous Pure-Data focusing on improved user 
interface, expanded collection of externals, and an advanced SVG-enabled 
graphical front-end. Originally it was introduced as the core 
infrastructure for the Linux Laptop Orchestra (L2Ork 
http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu), and has since expanded to include K-12 
learning module with a unique learning environment offering adaptable 
granularity that has been utilized in over dozen maker workshops and 
initiatives, including the Raspberry Pi Orchestra program for middle 
school children introduced in the summer 2014. Today, pd-l2ork is being 
developed by a growing number of international collaborators and 
contributors.


For additional info L2Ork and pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu

Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


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Re: [PD] Coll object Was: cartopol~ and poltocar~

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 10/17/2015 03:16 PM, Fred Jan Kraan wrote:


On 2015-10-17 05:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

Fred Jan,
Now that's interesting.  Thanks for testing it.

What happens with larger data sets? One thousand, ten thousand, etc.

Same result for 10.000 items; first the bang, then the result from the
dump. No interruption of the sound.
Now try that same patch on RPi and load five or ten files per second and 
chances are you will have xruns (order should remain the same, no matter 
what). Also, testing these in hypothetical/light cases where pd does 
nothing else of significance is unlikely to give you a real-world 
picture. FWIW, in L2Ork one of the biggest xrun culprits has been [coll] 
and data structures with large screen redraws that stole too much cpu 
away from audio processing thread, despite all the optimizations and 
prioritizations/lowlatency kernel/etc. Now, some of it is undoubtedly 
svg-enabled canvas and tkpath, some may be Ubuntu and its Unity desktop. 
Still, switching to threaded coll solved most of the problems. Another 
thing to consider, Max tests I shared earlier were performed on a fully 
loaded last gen MBP...


Best,

Ico

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Re: [PD] equality and void * pointers

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Is there a point of having more than one objectinfo at any point in time?

If not, you could have a static reference to that one objectinfo, or 
possibly have it instantiated in the background as an object that it 
associated with each canvas (or one per pd instance) and use the visual 
[objectinfo] as a mere proxy that forwards stuff to the invisible object 
(which means as a courtesy you could have multiple instances of 
[objectinfo] without any issues).


On 10/2/2015 11:50 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

I do have [objectinfo] inside Pd-l2ork.  But I don't have a method to
return the memory location of the object.

I also have a "find" method in [canvasinfo] which is very handy-- but it
searches based on the box text.  I could add an obscure
"find_by_memory_location" method which would do the trick.  Then it'd 
just be a matter of:

1) generate error for some object
2) note the object's address
3) delete the object


I wonder if there is a more graceful way of doing this. If not, you 
could accompany object's address with its atomic creation time (which 
would require adding a member to a struct as long as it is internal to 
pd and not readily instantiated/accessible in 3rd-party externals) and 
that way compare whether it is the same object...



4) dynamically create new obj in subpatch
5) check if that new object's address matches old object address
6) if not, clear the subpatch
7) repeat until you find a match

-Jonathan




On Friday, October 2, 2015 1:05 AM, Matt Barber  
wrote:



Most of the docs also don't expect you run a pointer out of the bounds 
of an array, either, but the compiler trusts you know what you're doing.


I see what you mean in the first question. Can we make a patch to test 
it dynamically?


On Fri, Oct 2, 2015 at 12:36 AM, Jonathan Wilkes > wrote:


For the first question, here's what I'm thinking:
1) create [boat(---[float]
2) click [boat(
3) error associated with [float].  (string ".x1234567" associated
with [float] gets saved in Pd window of GUI)
4) delete [float]
5) create [clip]
6) somehow the OS happens to use addy "1234567" for [clip]
7) click the error in the Pd window
8) GUI sends "pd findinstance .x1234567" to Pd
9) Pd assigns "1234567" to error_object
10) Pd compares [clip] object's "1234567" to old [float] addy
"1234567"
11) It's a match!
12) [clip] is falsely accused

For #2-- I guess I'm just anxious since most of the docs I've read
assume
a void* is either NULL or pointing to something that exists.

-Jonathan



On Friday, October 2, 2015 12:15 AM, Matt Barber
> wrote:


​So, if you deleted [float] and created [clip], isn't it going to
bash whatever c string was associated with [float] and associate
it with [clip]? Moreover, that kind of error has to occur in an
object that exists in the current state (I think?), so the old
[float] (once it's gone) could never be part of an error in the
first place.

For 2) I think it depends on what you're going to do with the void
pointer(s). Your compare_pointers() function could actually be
read as the meat of a "guess my address!" roulette game. If you
decided to write to *bar in case it matched, it might be a "guess
my address!" Russian roulette game. I'm not sure what the compiler
would say about that since I think you'd have to cast *bar back to
something you could write.



On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 11:57 PM, Jonathan Wilkes
> wrote:

Well, two questions I guess:
1) false positives-- if I deleted [float] and create [clip],
can't malloc use the addy
that belonged to [float]?  In that case [clip] could get
associated with an error
it had nothing to do with.
2) Is it undefined behavior to check void* garbage for equality?
And just for the heck of it...
3) is there a way to create something like [readpd~] which
would take indices
as input and output the corresponding bytes of the running Pd
instance? :)

-Jonathan





On Thursday, October 1, 2015 11:22 PM, Matt Barber
> wrote:


The left side is still determined by the current state of the
patch, though -- it's only going to check objects that are
still there, which any garbage on the right won't ever match
(right?). If there is a match, it's going to be because the
state on both sides of the == was updated when the object was
created. We never really have to worry about false positives,
so I'm not sure the random long is the same situation.

On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Jonathan Wilkes

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] ANN: pd-l2ork version 20150917 now available

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

You're welcome. Glad to hear it all works now.

BTW, 20150921 release is now up for 32bit and 64bit Ubuntu, as well as 
RPi. Only changes are fixes for problems Jonghyun Kim reported.


Best,

Ico

On 9/21/2015 12:49 PM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

It's awesome! Ivica, thanks for great release!

Jonghyun

On Tue, Sep 22, 2015 at 12:37 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:


Benjamin and others who may be having problems with png images,
please check if you have libmagick++-dev, libmagickcore5-extra
libmagick++-dev libmagickcore-dev libmagick++5 and libmagickcore5
installed. If not, please report what you may be missing. If yes,
please confirm. Many thanks!

As a quick alternative to using my deb package, you may want to
contact Albert Graef who has set up a launchpad with pd-l2ork
releases and likely has specialized deb for your version of Ubuntu
(although I am not sure if it is up-to-date with the latest
release). Another alternative is building your own version from
the source, which should be a simple three-step process. See
software page for details on how to compile pd-l2ork at:

http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/make-your-own-l2ork/software/

Best,

Ico

On 9/20/2015 8:16 PM, Benjamin ~ b01 wrote:

hi,

with an old version (Pd-l2ork version 20131123) on debian
jessie 32bits,
I had  the PNG problem :

load plugins 'image' in '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/'
pattern : /usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_image*.so
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageJPEG.so'!
dylib loading file
'/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageMAGICK.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libMagick++.so.4: cannot
open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageSGI.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageTIFF.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libtiff.so.4: cannot open
shared
object file: No such file or directory'
not reloading 'image' plugins (already 2 loaded)
load plugins 'image' in '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/'
pattern : /usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_image*.so
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageJPEG.so'!
dylib loading file
'/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageMAGICK.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libMagick++.so.4: cannot
open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageSGI.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageTIFF.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libtiff.so.4: cannot open
shared
object file: No such file or directory'

maybe gem_imageMAGICK plugin is built with a libMagick++
version which
is not available in the regular repositories ?

++
b

Le 20/09/2015 23:30, Ivica Ico Bukvic a écrit :

You're very welcome. Regarding your question, what may be
useful to do
is to try to install older release from July 2015 (see
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/ for direct access to
all older
releases), as it is possible that I did not have all the
libraries
when I built the Gem library--I did notice latest builds
on 14.04 were
smaller in size but did not have a chance to investigate why.

So, if you would please try installing the July release
found at
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150730.deb
and
letting me know if that fixed the problem, that would help
a great
deal in figuring out what may be wrong.

Best,

Ico

On 9/20/2015 4:38 PM, Antonio Roberts wrote:

Hi Ivica,

Thanks for a great release!

I've just installed this on Ubuntu 15.04 64 Bit and I
appear to have
the same problem with loading pngs as I did here
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-05/110156.html

Anyone else having this problem?

Antonio

On 18 September 2015 at 06:39, Ivica Ico Bukvic
<i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:

Apologies for x-posting,

Following over dozen minor releases, yesterday
pd-l2ork team has
unveiled
our latest major release, version 20150917.
Release highlights include:

Release highlights:

*Expanded K12 module
*

Re: [PD] Pduino and arudino mini pro/raspi debian- Pduino or Comport?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Another alternative--if you need Arduino for connecting GPIO (including 
software PWM for analog out) and potentially analog inputs, you may be 
better off getting Modern Device LOP shield for RPi (I worked with it on 
RPi 1 rev. B model, and according to online RPi2 specs it should be also 
compatible with RPi2 GPIO) which gives you 10 digital I/O that can be 
also used as PWM analog outs, and 8 analog ins, with each connector 
offering ground and 3.3V pin right next to it, plus a 5V lead if you 
need one straight off the GPIO pin and 4 optional microswitches linked 
with 4 GPIOs.


https://moderndevice.com/product/lots-of-pots-lop-board-for-raspberry-pi/ (the 
$23 NOP version comes without the pots, assuming you don't need the pots 
to begin with)


Best,

Ico

On 9/21/2015 6:45 PM, Martin Peach wrote:
...and connect Tx to Rx and Rx to Tx and don't forget to connect the 
grounds together.


Martin

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu 
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:


Two more considerations: making sure you have the right firmware
on the Arduino (sometimes it gets corrupt for seemingly no
apparent reason and you need to reupload it), and finally making
sure that it's getting enough power through RPi's USB port to
provide stable operation.


On 9/21/2015 6:15 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:

If connecting to serial port works when you run pd with sudo
privileges, you will need to add your user is to the dialout
group. See

http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/14354/read-write-to-a-serial-port-without-root
for more info. HTH

On 9/21/2015 1:56 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

I have done all of that for use with the ardunio uno, it's
when the raspi2 is directly connected to the serial pins
that it does not connect.
I tested the device on mac and used the ALLINPUTS firmata
and it works with a virtual serial created by FTDI
just can't seem to talk to it with Linux debian running
vanilla

comport works fine with the UNO

Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
Audio and Projection Design Faculty
Digital Worlds Institute
University of Florida, USA
(352)294-2020 <tel:%28352%29294-2020>


From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@mail.iem.at
<mailto:pd-list-boun...@mail.iem.at>> on behalf of
IOhannes m zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at <mailto:zmoel...@iem.at>>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 1:47 PM
To: pd-l...@mail.iem.at <mailto:pd-l...@mail.iem.at>
Subject: Re: [PD] Pduino and arudino mini pro/raspi
debian- Pduino or   Comport?

On 09/21/2015 05:17 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

?i sent that message to it ]devicename /dev/ttyS1/S0
and it does not exist so i tried to create it with
mknod and it created the names in /dev but they are
not accessible.

mknod? this sounds like you are following advice from the
1990s.
these days mknod is hardly ever needed: instead any
devicefiles will be
created on the fly by the resp. drivers.


selecting device in the toggles in the pduino stuff
only finds device 0

I am wondering if it's a linux issue because the only
serial port at all is

serial 0 /dev/ttyAMA0

a little bit of googling hints that /dev/ttyAMA0 is indeed
the name for
the serial interface on the GPIO ports - which afaiu is
what you want.

so you just use that device.


then you need to get the permissions correct.
check whether the device is already setup to allow
group-members to
write to it, and which group that is:
$ ls -l /dev/ttyAMA0
crw-rw 1 root dialout 4, 67 Sep  3 16:12 /dev/ttyAMA0

and eventually add the user running Pd to that group:
pd@raspbian $ sudo bash
root@raspbian # adduser pd dialout

after that you only need to re-login as that user to let
the new group
membership have any effect.

gadsr
IOhannes


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-- 
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.

Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 

Re: [PD] Pduino and arudino mini pro/raspi debian- Pduino or Comport?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

If connecting to serial port works when you run pd with sudo privileges, 
you will need to add your user is to the dialout group. See 
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/14354/read-write-to-a-serial-port-without-root 
for more info. HTH


On 9/21/2015 1:56 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

I have done all of that for use with the ardunio uno, it's when the raspi2 is 
directly connected to the serial pins that it does not connect.
I tested the device on mac and used the ALLINPUTS firmata and it works with a 
virtual serial created by FTDI
just can't seem to talk to it with Linux debian running vanilla

comport works fine with the UNO

Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
Audio and Projection Design Faculty
Digital Worlds Institute
University of Florida, USA
(352)294-2020


From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@mail.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m zmölnig 
<zmoel...@iem.at>
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 1:47 PM
To: pd-l...@mail.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Pduino and arudino mini pro/raspi debian- Pduino or   Comport?

On 09/21/2015 05:17 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

?i sent that message to it ]devicename /dev/ttyS1/S0 and it does not exist so i 
tried to create it with mknod and it created the names in /dev but they are not 
accessible.

mknod? this sounds like you are following advice from the 1990s.
these days mknod is hardly ever needed: instead any devicefiles will be
created on the fly by the resp. drivers.



selecting device in the toggles in the pduino stuff only finds device 0

I am wondering if it's a linux issue because the only serial port at all is

serial 0 /dev/ttyAMA0


a little bit of googling hints that /dev/ttyAMA0 is indeed the name for
the serial interface on the GPIO ports - which afaiu is what you want.

so you just use that device.


then you need to get the permissions correct.
check whether the device is already setup to allow group-members to
write to it, and which group that is:
$ ls -l /dev/ttyAMA0
crw-rw 1 root dialout 4, 67 Sep  3 16:12 /dev/ttyAMA0

and eventually add the user running Pd to that group:
pd@raspbian $ sudo bash
root@raspbian # adduser pd dialout

after that you only need to re-login as that user to let the new group
membership have any effect.

gadsr
IOhannes


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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


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Re: [PD] Pduino and arudino mini pro/raspi debian- Pduino or Comport?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Two more considerations: making sure you have the right firmware on the 
Arduino (sometimes it gets corrupt for seemingly no apparent reason and 
you need to reupload it), and finally making sure that it's getting 
enough power through RPi's USB port to provide stable operation.


On 9/21/2015 6:15 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
If connecting to serial port works when you run pd with sudo 
privileges, you will need to add your user is to the dialout group. 
See 
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/14354/read-write-to-a-serial-port-without-root 
for more info. HTH


On 9/21/2015 1:56 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
I have done all of that for use with the ardunio uno, it's when the 
raspi2 is directly connected to the serial pins that it does not 
connect.
I tested the device on mac and used the ALLINPUTS firmata and it 
works with a virtual serial created by FTDI

just can't seem to talk to it with Linux debian running vanilla

comport works fine with the UNO

Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A
Audio and Projection Design Faculty
Digital Worlds Institute
University of Florida, USA
(352)294-2020


From: Pd-list <pd-list-boun...@mail.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m 
zmölnig <zmoel...@iem.at>

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 1:47 PM
To: pd-l...@mail.iem.at
Subject: Re: [PD] Pduino and arudino mini pro/raspi debian- Pduino 
or   Comport?


On 09/21/2015 05:17 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:
?i sent that message to it ]devicename /dev/ttyS1/S0 and it does not 
exist so i tried to create it with mknod and it created the names in 
/dev but they are not accessible.

mknod? this sounds like you are following advice from the 1990s.
these days mknod is hardly ever needed: instead any devicefiles will be
created on the fly by the resp. drivers.



selecting device in the toggles in the pduino stuff only finds device 0

I am wondering if it's a linux issue because the only serial port at 
all is


serial 0 /dev/ttyAMA0


a little bit of googling hints that /dev/ttyAMA0 is indeed the name for
the serial interface on the GPIO ports - which afaiu is what you want.

so you just use that device.


then you need to get the permissions correct.
check whether the device is already setup to allow group-members to
write to it, and which group that is:
$ ls -l /dev/ttyAMA0
crw-rw 1 root dialout 4, 67 Sep  3 16:12 /dev/ttyAMA0

and eventually add the user running Pd to that group:
pd@raspbian $ sudo bash
root@raspbian # adduser pd dialout

after that you only need to re-login as that user to let the new group
membership have any effect.

gadsr
IOhannes


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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net


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Re: [PD] Small single board computer recommendations?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

In 2014 I did a RPi (v.1. rev.B) orchestra as part of a gifted summer 
program for middle school kids. For approx. $100, you can get everything 
you need to get it going, including soundcard, speakers (powered through 
RPi), mic, and a Modern Device LOP shield that essentially replaces 
Arduino. Pair that with pd-l2ork's K-12 module and you get all the 
externals for interacting with GPIO and I2S, including 10 channels of 
digital in and out, 10 channels of analog out (hardware PWM on one 
dedicated pin and software PWM on all 10 gpio pins), and 8 channels of 
analog in (via MCP3008->I2S) custom-tailored for this setup. For more 
info see:


http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pd-l2ork-k12-rpi-002.png
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pd-l2ork-k12-rpi-001.png
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/pd-l2ork-k12-rpi-003.png
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/pd-l2ork-K12.jpg
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/make-your-own-l2ork/software/raspberry-pi/

HTH

Best,

Ico

On 9/21/2015 1:11 PM, William Huston wrote:

I hope this is relevant to this list!

I am having big dreams about what can be done with cheap, tiny 
computers running PD. Look at the various Laptop Orchestras popping 
up. So exciting!


My minimum specification is:

* Pi-like horsepower
* 10x buffered ADCs with 12bit precision
* 4x high quality isolated 24 bit @ 48 khz audio ins and 4x out

I want to build 100,
But first I need to build 1.

It seems the big disadvantage of an Arduino is it is underpowered vs. 
a RPi quad core (w/faster CPU, more memory, etc). But it seems people 
love Arduino due to its IO pins. Many ADCs for controllers and sensors!


Whereas the RPi is just the opposite. Also high-quality audio both in 
and out on a Pi seems like a problem people face. Has anyone fixed the 
issue yet with USB2 stability yet?


Do some people use a Pi for CPU and an Arduinio just for IO? (cf. 
Arduberry) This seems like what an Udoo is (both in one unit). Udoo 
comments?


Along these lines, I have found I really like the specs of the Wolfson 
Audio card. The chip it's based on (WM5102) is a 6x6.

Any experiences to share?

I haven't found a buffered ADC solution for high resolution sensors 
yet. I'm just starting a search of chips capable of this, and found 
about 6 so far... So I'm guessing there are several possible boards. 
Again, any recommendations appreciated (esp. of their voltage ranges 
can be scaled).


Are there any other single board computers I should be looking at 
which might help keep h/w costs down?


Thanks!



--
--
May you, and all beings
be happy and free from suffering :)
-- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)



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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu
ico.bukvic.net

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] ANN: pd-l2ork version 20150917 now available

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Benjamin and others who may be having problems with png images, please 
check if you have libmagick++-dev, libmagickcore5-extra libmagick++-dev 
libmagickcore-dev libmagick++5 and libmagickcore5 installed. If not, 
please report what you may be missing. If yes, please confirm. Many thanks!


As a quick alternative to using my deb package, you may want to contact 
Albert Graef who has set up a launchpad with pd-l2ork releases and 
likely has specialized deb for your version of Ubuntu (although I am not 
sure if it is up-to-date with the latest release). Another alternative 
is building your own version from the source, which should be a simple 
three-step process. See software page for details on how to compile 
pd-l2ork at:


http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/make-your-own-l2ork/software/

Best,

Ico

On 9/20/2015 8:16 PM, Benjamin ~ b01 wrote:

hi,

with an old version (Pd-l2ork version 20131123) on debian jessie 32bits,
I had  the PNG problem :

load plugins 'image' in '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/'
pattern : /usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_image*.so
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageJPEG.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageMAGICK.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libMagick++.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageSGI.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageTIFF.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libtiff.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
not reloading 'image' plugins (already 2 loaded)
load plugins 'image' in '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/'
pattern : /usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_image*.so
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageJPEG.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageMAGICK.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libMagick++.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageSGI.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageTIFF.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libtiff.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'

maybe gem_imageMAGICK plugin is built with a libMagick++ version which
is not available in the regular repositories ?

++
b

Le 20/09/2015 23:30, Ivica Ico Bukvic a écrit :

You're very welcome. Regarding your question, what may be useful to do
is to try to install older release from July 2015 (see
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/ for direct access to all older
releases), as it is possible that I did not have all the libraries
when I built the Gem library--I did notice latest builds on 14.04 were
smaller in size but did not have a chance to investigate why.

So, if you would please try installing the July release found at
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150730.deb and
letting me know if that fixed the problem, that would help a great
deal in figuring out what may be wrong.

Best,

Ico

On 9/20/2015 4:38 PM, Antonio Roberts wrote:

Hi Ivica,

Thanks for a great release!

I've just installed this on Ubuntu 15.04 64 Bit and I appear to have
the same problem with loading pngs as I did here
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-05/110156.html

Anyone else having this problem?

Antonio

On 18 September 2015 at 06:39, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu> wrote:

Apologies for x-posting,

Following over dozen minor releases, yesterday pd-l2ork team has
unveiled
our latest major release, version 20150917. Release highlights include:

Release highlights:

*Expanded K12 module
*Pd-L2Ork can now coexist with other releases without any package
conflicts
*Drawing optimizations
*New convenience functions, like comments with endlines and labels with
spaces
*Comprehensive Raspberry PI GPIO with PWM and I2S/MCP3008 (for
analog ins)
support
*New version of L2Ork-centric libcwiid library fork offering support
for all
versions of Nintendo-branded wiimotes, including the new MotionPlus
Inside,
as well as the support for interleaved passthrough mode (e.g.
MotionPlus +
Nunchuk)
*Code refactoring
*Bunch of minor and aesthetic fixes
*Last release (barring any major bugs) prior to the next major release
featuring node-webkit GUI (node-webkit version is currently in alpha
stage
of development)

For a changelog and a more detailed overview, please visit:
http://puredata.info/downloads/Pd-L2Ork/releases/20150917

To download pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56

NB: Currently only Ubuntu 14.04 64bit build is available, with 32bit
and
Raspberry Pi builds forthcoming.

About Pd-L2Ork
Pd-L2Ork is a fork of the ubiquitous Pure-Data focusing on improved
user
interface, expanded collection of externals, and an advanced
SVG-enabled
graphical front-end. Originally it was introduced as the core
infrastructure
for the Linux Laptop Orchestra (L2Ork http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu), and
has
since expanded to include K-12 learning module with a 

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] ANN: pd-l2ork version 20150917 now available

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

I think that was because it was built with libMagick++4 whereas 14.04 
and newer Ubuntu versions have libMagick++5. I am not sure why this 
matters (sounds to me like something may be improperly symlinked 
system-wise). Did the latest version I built on 14.04 fix that for you 
or do you still have this issue?


BTW, I checked file differences and there is nothing that pops out in 
terms of file size discrepancy and have filtered (AFAICT) all remaining 
conflicts with pd-extended package. Please check 20150920 and report 
(64bit only until the fix is confirmed).


Best,

Ico

On 9/20/2015 8:16 PM, Benjamin ~ b01 wrote:

hi,

with an old version (Pd-l2ork version 20131123) on debian jessie 32bits,
I had  the PNG problem :

load plugins 'image' in '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/'
pattern : /usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_image*.so
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageJPEG.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageMAGICK.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libMagick++.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageSGI.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageTIFF.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libtiff.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
not reloading 'image' plugins (already 2 loaded)
load plugins 'image' in '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/'
pattern : /usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_image*.so
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageJPEG.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageMAGICK.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libMagick++.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageSGI.so'!
dylib loading file '/usr/lib/pd-l2ork/extra/Gem/gem_imageTIFF.so'!
library loading returned: dlerror 'libtiff.so.4: cannot open shared
object file: No such file or directory'

maybe gem_imageMAGICK plugin is built with a libMagick++ version which
is not available in the regular repositories ?

++
b

Le 20/09/2015 23:30, Ivica Ico Bukvic a écrit :

You're very welcome. Regarding your question, what may be useful to do
is to try to install older release from July 2015 (see
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/ for direct access to all older
releases), as it is possible that I did not have all the libraries
when I built the Gem library--I did notice latest builds on 14.04 were
smaller in size but did not have a chance to investigate why.

So, if you would please try installing the July release found at
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/data/pd/pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150730.deb and
letting me know if that fixed the problem, that would help a great
deal in figuring out what may be wrong.

Best,

Ico

On 9/20/2015 4:38 PM, Antonio Roberts wrote:

Hi Ivica,

Thanks for a great release!

I've just installed this on Ubuntu 15.04 64 Bit and I appear to have
the same problem with loading pngs as I did here
http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2015-05/110156.html

Anyone else having this problem?

Antonio

On 18 September 2015 at 06:39, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu> wrote:

Apologies for x-posting,

Following over dozen minor releases, yesterday pd-l2ork team has
unveiled
our latest major release, version 20150917. Release highlights include:

Release highlights:

*Expanded K12 module
*Pd-L2Ork can now coexist with other releases without any package
conflicts
*Drawing optimizations
*New convenience functions, like comments with endlines and labels with
spaces
*Comprehensive Raspberry PI GPIO with PWM and I2S/MCP3008 (for
analog ins)
support
*New version of L2Ork-centric libcwiid library fork offering support
for all
versions of Nintendo-branded wiimotes, including the new MotionPlus
Inside,
as well as the support for interleaved passthrough mode (e.g.
MotionPlus +
Nunchuk)
*Code refactoring
*Bunch of minor and aesthetic fixes
*Last release (barring any major bugs) prior to the next major release
featuring node-webkit GUI (node-webkit version is currently in alpha
stage
of development)

For a changelog and a more detailed overview, please visit:
http://puredata.info/downloads/Pd-L2Ork/releases/20150917

To download pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56

NB: Currently only Ubuntu 14.04 64bit build is available, with 32bit
and
Raspberry Pi builds forthcoming.

About Pd-L2Ork
Pd-L2Ork is a fork of the ubiquitous Pure-Data focusing on improved
user
interface, expanded collection of externals, and an advanced
SVG-enabled
graphical front-end. Originally it was introduced as the core
infrastructure
for the Linux Laptop Orchestra (L2Ork http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu), and
has
since expanded to include K-12 learning module with a unique learning
environment offering adaptable granularity that has been utilized in
over
dozen maker workshops and initiatives, including the Raspberry Pi
Orchestra
program for middle school children introduced in the summe

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] ANN: pd-l2ork version 20150917 now available

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Jonghyun,

Would you please send me a list of all files found in the pd-extended 
0.43.4-1~trusty1 32bit and 64bit packages? I will then compare the notes 
and try to figure out what other files may be colliding with extended. 
Thanks.


Best,

Ico

On 9/20/2015 1:59 PM, Jonghyun Kim wrote:

trying to install 32bit

=
akntk@umi:~/Downloads$ sudo dpkg -i pd-l2ork-i686-20150919.deb
(Reading database ... 466217 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack pd-l2ork-i686-20150919.deb ...
Unpacking pd-l2ork (20150919) ...
dpkg: error processing archive pd-l2ork-i686-20150919.deb (--install):
 trying to overwrite '/usr/share/emacs/site-lisp/pd-mode.el', which is 
also in package pd-extended 0.43.4-1~trusty1

dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.0.2-2) ...
Errors were encountered while processing:
 pd-l2ork-i686-20150919.deb
akntk@umi:~/Downloads$
=

On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 2:51 AM, Jonghyun Kim <agitato...@gmail.com 
<mailto:agitato...@gmail.com>> wrote:


still error. how to resolve it?

thanks,
akntk

==
akntk@umi:~/Downloads$ sudo dpkg -i pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150919.deb
[sudo] password for akntk:
(Reading database ... 466217 files and directories currently
installed.)
Preparing to unpack pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150919.deb ...
Unpacking pd-l2ork (20150919) ...
dpkg: error processing archive pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150919.deb
(--install):
 trying to overwrite
'/usr/share/icons/hicolor/128x128/mimetypes/text-x-puredata.png',
which is also in package pd-extended 0.43.4-1~trusty1
dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Processing triggers for mime-support (3.55ubuntu1.1) ...
Processing triggers for gnome-menus (3.10.1-0ubuntu2) ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils (0.22-1ubuntu2) ...
Processing triggers for bamfdaemon (0.5.1+14.10.20140925-0ubuntu1) ...
Rebuilding /usr/share/applications/bamf-2.index...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.0.2-2) ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme (0.13-1) ...
Errors were encountered while processing:
 pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150919.deb
akntk@umi:~/Downloads$
==

On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 4:17 AM, Ivica Bukvic <i...@vt.edu
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:

OK, I seem to have found the culprit. A new version 20150919
of the 32bit, 64bit, and Raspberry Pi builds is now available.
Please let me know if this fixes your problem. Thank you.

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 12:48 PM, Ivica Bukvic <i...@vt.edu
<mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:

Oops, looks like I missed a file. Lemme investigate.

    Best,

    -- 
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.

Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139 <tel:%28540%29%20231-6139>
i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>
www.performingarts.vt.edu <http://www.performingarts.vt.edu>
disis.icat.vt.edu <http://disis.icat.vt.edu>
l2ork.icat.vt.edu <http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu>

On Sep 19, 2015 12:33 PM, "Jonghyun Kim"
<agitato...@gmail.com <mailto:agitato...@gmail.com>> wrote:

I got this err when installing. Sure I installed the
all listed dependencies.
Ubuntu 14.10 64bit
Pre-Installed Pd Vers:
Pd 0.45.5
Pd-extended 0.43.4

$ sudo dpkg -i pd-l2ork*deb
(Reading database ... 466217 files and directories
currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150917.deb ...
Unpacking pd-l2ork (20150917) ...
dpkg: error processing archive
pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150917.deb (--install):
trying to overwrite
'/usr/include/Gem/Gem/WorkerThread.h', which is also
in package pd-extended 0.43.4-1~trusty1
dpkg-deb: error: subprocess paste was killed by signal
(Broken pipe)
Errors were encountered while processing:
pd-l2ork-x86_64-20150917.deb
$
===

    thanks,
akntk

On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 4:19 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic
<i...@vt.edu <mailto:i...@vt.edu>> wrote:

Hey Patrick! Hope all is well. Please see my
responses below.

On 9/18/2015 1:31 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

Ic

Re: [PD] [PD-announce] ANN: pd-l2ork version 20150917 now available

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Hey Patrick! Hope all is well. Please see my responses below.

On 9/18/2015 1:31 PM, Pagano, Patrick wrote:

Ico
Thanks so much. I am on ubuntu64 so I will install it. It does not interfere 
with Vanilla does it?


Exactly. The two can now happily coexist next to each other. Just make 
sure not to mix and match externals compiled for one with the other 
(even though the jury is still out whether pd-l2ork can handle vanilla 
externals without crashing, something I suspect is likely but not 
proven). Either way, this should not be necessary since pd-l2ork ships 
with many (most?) externals included.




Also, I was chatting with our newest Research dean at the college of fine arts 
student meet and greet and your name came up. Tony Kolenic


Very cool! Well, that explains why my ears were burning earlier today 
;-) Kidding aside, Tony is a really cool guy. Please tell him I said hi.


Best,

Ico



Sent from my iPhone


On Sep 18, 2015, at 1:40 AM, Ivica Ico Bukvic <i...@vt.edu> wrote:

Apologies for x-posting,

Following over dozen minor releases, yesterday pd-l2ork team has unveiled our 
latest major release, version 20150917. Release highlights include:

Release highlights:

*Expanded K12 module
*Pd-L2Ork can now coexist with other releases without any package conflicts
*Drawing optimizations
*New convenience functions, like comments with endlines and labels with spaces
*Comprehensive Raspberry PI GPIO with PWM and I2S/MCP3008 (for analog ins) 
support
*New version of L2Ork-centric libcwiid library fork offering support for all 
versions of Nintendo-branded wiimotes, including the new MotionPlus Inside, as 
well as the support for interleaved passthrough mode (e.g. MotionPlus + Nunchuk)
*Code refactoring
*Bunch of minor and aesthetic fixes
*Last release (barring any major bugs) prior to the next major release 
featuring node-webkit GUI (node-webkit version is currently in alpha stage of 
development)

For a changelog and a more detailed overview, please visit:
http://puredata.info/downloads/Pd-L2Ork/releases/20150917

To download pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56

NB: Currently only Ubuntu 14.04 64bit build is available, with 32bit and 
Raspberry Pi builds forthcoming.

About Pd-L2Ork
Pd-L2Ork is a fork of the ubiquitous Pure-Data focusing on improved user 
interface, expanded collection of externals, and an advanced SVG-enabled 
graphical front-end. Originally it was introduced as the core infrastructure 
for the Linux Laptop Orchestra (L2Ork http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu), and has since 
expanded to include K-12 learning module with a unique learning environment 
offering adaptable granularity that has been utilized in over dozen maker 
workshops and initiatives, including the Raspberry Pi Orchestra program for 
middle school children introduced in the summer 2014. Today, pd-l2ork is being 
developed by a growing number of international collaborators and contributors.

For additional info L2Ork and pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu

More about the founding author:
http://ico.bukvic.net

Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu


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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu


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[PD] [PD-announce] ANN: pd-l2ork version 20150917 now available

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Apologies for x-posting,

Following over dozen minor releases, yesterday pd-l2ork team has 
unveiled our latest major release, version 20150917. Release highlights 
include:


Release highlights:

*Expanded K12 module
*Pd-L2Ork can now coexist with other releases without any package conflicts
*Drawing optimizations
*New convenience functions, like comments with endlines and labels with 
spaces
*Comprehensive Raspberry PI GPIO with PWM and I2S/MCP3008 (for analog 
ins) support
*New version of L2Ork-centric libcwiid library fork offering support for 
all versions of Nintendo-branded wiimotes, including the new MotionPlus 
Inside, as well as the support for interleaved passthrough mode (e.g. 
MotionPlus + Nunchuk)

*Code refactoring
*Bunch of minor and aesthetic fixes
*Last release (barring any major bugs) prior to the next major release 
featuring node-webkit GUI (node-webkit version is currently in alpha 
stage of development)


For a changelog and a more detailed overview, please visit:
http://puredata.info/downloads/Pd-L2Ork/releases/20150917

To download pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=56

NB: Currently only Ubuntu 14.04 64bit build is available, with 32bit and 
Raspberry Pi builds forthcoming.


About Pd-L2Ork
Pd-L2Ork is a fork of the ubiquitous Pure-Data focusing on improved user 
interface, expanded collection of externals, and an advanced SVG-enabled 
graphical front-end. Originally it was introduced as the core 
infrastructure for the Linux Laptop Orchestra (L2Ork 
http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu), and has since expanded to include K-12 
learning module with a unique learning environment offering adaptable 
granularity that has been utilized in over dozen maker workshops and 
initiatives, including the Raspberry Pi Orchestra program for middle 
school children introduced in the summer 2014. Today, pd-l2ork is being 
developed by a growing number of international collaborators and 
contributors.


For additional info L2Ork and pd-l2ork:
http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu

More about the founding author:
http://ico.bukvic.net

Best,

--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu


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Re: [PD] binary compatibility

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 07/27/2015 01:28 PM, Charles Z Henry wrote:

On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list
pd-list@lists.iem.at wrote:


Background info: Pd-l2ork has an extra member at the _end_ of the
t_widgetbehavior struct.  This member is used to do accelerated displacing
of a selection of objects in Pd.

This type of modification isn't meant to be binary compatible in both
directions.  Your Pd-Vanilla externals with the Vanilla
t_widgetbehavior struct will not work in Pd-l2ork, because the struct
is smaller.

When Pd-l2ork tries to access those elements off the end of the
t_widgetbehavior struct, it should seg fault.


Since pd-l2ork is compiled with a different widgetbehavior and assigns 
all new objects by default a null value to additional widgetbehaviors, 
unless 3rd-party external explicitly somehow overrides widgetbehavior, 
this will not crash. The only situation where I think it may crash is if 
a 3rd party external tries to copy an object and tries to allocate 
memory for a specific widgetbehavior size, which seems questionable 
since externals should not have to worry about widgetbehavior size and 
IIRC this part is instantiated inside core pd routines.


Best,

Ico



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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts - 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu


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Re: [PD] GUI lock ups

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Do you have any netsend/netreceive objects in your patch?

On 5/19/2015 9:29 PM, William Huston wrote:

Yes, just happened:

(Tcl) INVALID COMMAND NAME: invalid command name .x3cc9380.c
while executing
$tkcanvas itemconfig $tag -text $text
(procedure pdtk_text_set line 2)
invoked from within
pdtk_text_set .x3cc9380.c .x3cc9380.t43bfcc0 {4.326}
(uplevel body line 1)
invoked from within
uplevel #0 $cmds_from_pd

0.43.4-extended, Windows 7

Thanks



On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 3:16 PM, William Huston 
williamahus...@gmail.com mailto:williamahus...@gmail.com wrote:


Hmm. Not sure. Will check console next time it happens.
Thanks.


On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 5:52 AM, ro...@dds.nl
mailto:ro...@dds.nl wrote:


do you also get TCL errors ?

rolf


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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
Director -- DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.icat.vt.edu
l2ork.icat.vt.edu

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Re: [PD] any pitch synchronous granulator external?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Look for disis_munger~ found on L2Ork's software page (requires flext), 
or simply install pd-l2ork which comes with disis_munger~ included.


On 2/10/2015 3:13 AM, Jeppi Jeppi wrote:

Hi,
I would need a granulator external for pd (osx) which would allow fof 
like synthesis, that is, pitch synchronous granulation with fine 
control over the grain envelope. I could not find any build of munger~ 
or syncgrain~ which seem could do the job.

Any hints?

thanks in advance!
josep


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--
Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A.
Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
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Re: [PD] speech recognition and ethics

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

There is still the access to computational power challenge, unless we 
make a seti@home-like speech recognition crawler which in and of itself 
has similar ethical implications.


On 2/7/2015 12:55 PM, Spencer Russell wrote:
I saw a really interesting talk last year by Johan Schalkwyk, the head 
of the Google speech recognition group. One of the points he made was 
that while Google's algorithms are important, they got a lot more 
leverage from the sheer amount of data they have access to. It allows 
them to get away with much simpler algorithms. I think that's one of 
the biggest problems with trying to compete with Google and Apple on 
speech recognition, because OSS developers just don't have access to a 
huge corpus of data.
Even though a lot of that data is unlabeled (they don't know what the 
actual words are that correspond to the audio), they have a huge 
amount of interaction data, so they can for instance look at whether 
the user tried multiple times with a particular phrase or whether the 
user accepted a given transcription.
It seems like if we want an open-source speech recognition package we 
should focus on finding ways to get an accessible shared corpus. 
Unless there was some tricky licensing I think that corpus would also 
benefit the big guys though, so their corpus would remain a proper 
superset of what's available to OSS developers.

On Sat, Feb 7, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

Hi list,
Here's a fun thought-experiment: suppose you're doing a port of Pd, 
and the graphics toolkit you're using will include functionality to 
hook in to Google's speech recognition API.  Such an API could make 
the software accessible to people who would otherwise find it very 
hard to write Pd patches.
However, the API works by shipping off your audio data to Google's 
servers, doing the computation on their machines, and sending you 
back the results.

Do you use the API in your port, or not?
I'm decidedly not going to use that API, for what I think are obvious 
security, privacy, and philosophical reasons.  But I'm curious just 
how obvious the security and privacy implications are to others 
here.  How many people would use a speech-patching mechanism that 
sends all your speech to Google?
I'm also increasingly worried by the apparent gap between the 
usability of Google and Apple's products, and the seemingly glacial 
pace at which _usable_ free software speech recognition is being 
developed.  My position won't change, but I'm afraid it's becoming 
more symbolic than practical as these insecure tools become a natural 
part of most people's lives.

-Jonathan
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Re: [PD] data structures......

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Most of the build scripts for extended are still in the pd-l2ork git. It 
is a relatively simple matter of making sure:


1) tkpath builds cleanly on Windows (which it should)
2) tkdnd builds ok on Windows (which it should)
3) Windows has xapian and tkxapian libraries (which it should)
4) and then hunting any stray idiosyncrasies within the pd-l2ork's tk 
scripts (there should no more than a few linked to the startup behavior).


Basically, it is a matter of someone spending a bit of time hunting 
these down and refining scripts as necessary to make everything 
buildable in as automatic of a way as possible (e.g. on Linux pd-l2ork 
uses a single command to build the entire monolithic deb or tarball 
installer).


HTH

Best,

Ico

On 11/29/2014 11:34 AM, João Pais wrote:

are there any indications somewhere on how to do it?

AFAICT there isn't any technical reason why Pd-l2ork couldn't be
built and run on Windows.  There might be some Linux-centric
theming in the tcl files.  But if someone wants to try to get it
running on Windows I'll be happy to amend any problem code.

-Jonathan



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Re: [PD] list foreach?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 10/9/2014 3:06 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:

Hi,

indeed: the code in question has been implemented several times in various
external libraries, so adding it to the main binary of a pd-fork would just 
create
an unnecessary incompatibility to vanilla core objects, but not gain anything
at all.

Ciao
sigh... One could argue that those using a pd-fork would benefit, and 
just maybe if vanilla contributors felt compelled to do so, they could 
also borrow code and implement it in their version as well?


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DISIS, L2Ork
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[PD] ANN: competitive iPhD research assistantships available at Virginia Tech/ICAT/DISIS

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Apologies for x-posting, I would greatly appreciate it if you would please
disseminate the following among prospective graduate students.

I am pleased to announce immediate availability of a competitive 12-month
iPhD research assistantships in Human-Centered Design program for both the
Spring 2015 and the Fall 2015.

Virginia Tech's new individualized Human-Centered Design (HCD) iPhD
transdisciplinary degree is closely aligned with the newfound Institute for
Creativity, Arts, and Technology (ICAT). iPhD is a degree designed primarily
to support individually tailored PhD experiences, allowing students to
actively participate in shaping their plan of study. The GAship in question
seeks candidates with a solid research background, and a strong sense of
independence and self-sufficiency. We are particularly seeking students
interested in sonification, sound spatialization, and interactive
technologies (e.g. mind-body technologies, laptop/mobile ensembles,
hyperinstruments, installations, mobile/wearable computing, etc.).
Candidates must possess a strong knowledge of Max and Pd/Pd-L2Ork
programming environments. C/C++ programming (or equivalent) is also
preferred, as well as skills in other domains (e.g. interactive multimedia,
K-12 education, 3D animation, etc.).

This is a 12-month renewable assistantship with a full tuition waiver and
one of the highest paying stipends at Virginia Tech. To be eligible
candidates need to apply, be accepted, and enroll in the new HCD iPhD
program with primary focus in the computer music domain focusing on one or
more of the aforesaid areas of interest.

The successful candidate will be given an opportunity to participate in
conducting reserarch using the cutting edge 145 speaker system and 
consequently
its innovative spatialization, sonification, and immersion approaches in 
the new
$100M Moss Arts Center and more specifically Institute for Creativity, 
Arts, and

Technology's three-story Cube space and its smaller counterpart, the
immersive Perform Studio, as well as the new DISIS facilities that are 
coming online

this fall. They will also work closely with ICAT faculty and
students on a number of collaborative projects, including Tech or Treat,
MAKEr camps, the upcoming SEAMUS conference, and other ICATinitiatives.

For questions and application information please contact Dr. Ivica Ico 
Bukvic i...@vt.edu


For more information:
HCD http://www.vthcd.com/
ICAT http://www.icat.vt.edu
DISIS http://disis.icat.vt.edu
L2Ork http://l2ork.icat.vt.edu

Best,

--
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Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
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Re: [PD] crasher bug

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

Trying to reproduce this in pd-l2ork. What do you mean by the last 
sentence? Delete all the objects? Is this on the MAIN.pd or inside 
text.pd? Also, unchecking the GOP option, if that applies to test, 
haven't we already deleted it in the previous step? Or, have you 
actually saved the text patch as its help file with the GOP enabled?


On 09/16/2014 07:18 AM, Max wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

here is how to reproduce it:

make two pd documents, let's say MAIN.pd and text.pd. then, in MAIN.pd
open test.pd as an abstraction. make it GOP. from MAIN rightclick and
coose help the context menu to open the not existing help file. The
GOP abstraction test.pd will open. Save it as test-help.pd. Delete all
the objects. Uncheck the GOP option.
Crash.

that's in Pd 0.45.4

On 09/16/2014 08:02 PM, Max wrote:

hi list, i got this at two incidents:

terminate called after throwing an instance of
'boost::exception_detail::clone_implboost::exception_detail::error_info_injectorboost::lock_error

'

pure virtual method called terminate called recursively


but I can't reproduce it now. I was doing something like this:
making two pd documents, let's say MAIN.pd and text.pd. then, in
MAIN.pd calling test.pd as an abstraction and going through the
context menu to the not existing help file. Saving this as
test-help.pd. i think that's where the crash happened.

m.

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-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1

iEYEARECAAYFAlQYHIEACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6IpmQCeIBR0E2ASWDwkZ6vb7koJttSY
w8cAnAx8K+XR2GXoi8GuUl1YH9TiTRB8
=H6hU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts - 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
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Re: [PD] crasher bug

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 09/17/2014 11:10 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:

I believe the bug, at its simplest, was this:

Make an empty patch (in Pd 0.46, say), set it as GOP, save it, close it,
open it again, un-set GOP, and kaboom.  Amazing I never saw that before...

M


Thank you both for the clarification. It seems pd-l2ork is unaffected.

Best,

Ico



On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 05:57:13AM -0400, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:

Trying to reproduce this in pd-l2ork. What do you mean by the last sentence?
Delete all the objects? Is this on the MAIN.pd or inside text.pd? Also,
unchecking the GOP option, if that applies to test, haven't we already
deleted it in the previous step? Or, have you actually saved the text patch
as its help file with the GOP enabled?

On 09/16/2014 07:18 AM, Max wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

here is how to reproduce it:

make two pd documents, let's say MAIN.pd and text.pd. then, in MAIN.pd
open test.pd as an abstraction. make it GOP. from MAIN rightclick and
coose help the context menu to open the not existing help file. The
GOP abstraction test.pd will open. Save it as test-help.pd. Delete all
the objects. Uncheck the GOP option.
Crash.

that's in Pd 0.45.4

On 09/16/2014 08:02 PM, Max wrote:

hi list, i got this at two incidents:

terminate called after throwing an instance of
'boost::exception_detail::clone_implboost::exception_detail::error_info_injectorboost::lock_error

'

pure virtual method called terminate called recursively


but I can't reproduce it now. I was doing something like this:
making two pd documents, let's say MAIN.pd and text.pd. then, in
MAIN.pd calling test.pd as an abstraction and going through the
context menu to the not existing help file. Saving this as
test-help.pd. i think that's where the crash happened.

m.

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-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1

iEYEARECAAYFAlQYHIEACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6IpmQCeIBR0E2ASWDwkZ6vb7koJttSY
w8cAnAx8K+XR2GXoi8GuUl1YH9TiTRB8
=H6hU
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts - 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
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Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts - 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
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Re: [PD] [PD-dev] Should message objects be able to pre-parse $0 into valid dollarzero?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 9/13/2014 5:10 PM, Colet Patrice wrote:


I don't know the implications of introducing some wizard that rewrite 
code into patches for backward compatibility,
but the idea looks seducing for me because it might break inertia that 
makes the GUI still looking like patching in the nineties.


Sorry for the cynicism but it's truely a joke we sometimes share when 
it's about pd interface.


If you would like to contribute to upgrading the UI to something more 
contemporary, we could always use more help on pd-l2ork side of things 
where the canvas currently uses SVG for drawing all contents (see 
http://l2ork.music.vt.edu/main/?page_id=2554 for more info). More so, we 
are currently starting to port entire gui to qt library which should 
make things considerably more flexible/efficient...


Best,

--
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Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts – 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
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Re: [PD] Should message objects be able to pre-parse $0 into valid dollarzero?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

 a trigger with static values, like [t 0 f
1] for opening a gate, passing a value, and then immediately closing it.
This is what pd-l2ork does (and so does Max). So, rather than putting
redundant messages with static values below the [t b] outlet, one object
solves it all. To me this is the same situation where message can do it
all, and if that makes my patching quicker, I am all for it.

On Sep 10, 2014 12:48 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com
mailto:jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:

Two things:

1) the lack of $0 in messages is only a symptom of a bigger
problem with scope of binding symbols in Pd. I'd rather see new
objects (or wrapper objects) that handle scope in a sensible
manner which doesn't require typing $0- at all.  There's already
no need for $0 in your preset_hub/node design.  Why not extend the
hub/node idea and get rid of the need for $0 completely?

[hub]/[node] = [send]/[receive]
[hub~]/[node~] = [throw~]/[catch~]
etc.

2) On a more superficial note, isn't the problem that Pd doesn't
store stray \n characters in message boxes? The only time I can
think of when one would have a real desire for $0 in a message box
is when initializing a bunch of receivers:

[; $0-foo 1;
$0-bar 2;
$0-flub 3;(

But if the box stored \n you could get the same clean format
with commas:
[foo 1,
bar 2,
flub 3(
|
[zerofy-me] - add a $0- to the selector
| |
[send]

No ugly zeros, no leading semi-colon, everybody wins!

-Jonathan


On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 2:27 AM, Ivica Bukvic i...@vt.edu
mailto:i...@vt.edu wrote:



On Sep 10, 2014 1:17 AM, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx
mailto:ch...@mccormick.cx wrote:

 Hi Ivica,

 On 10/09/14 04:19, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
  Yet, I wonder why message shouldn't be able to pre-parse $0
into a valid
  dollarzero (canvas instance), when there will never be a
message one
 
  Thoughts?

 There has been a lot of discussion regarding this over the years
which
 might be good to read to get an idea on the different
 philosophical/language design issues:


http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.puredata.general/56365
Thanks, Chris, for bringing this to my attention. Since one of
Miller's core ideas behind pd is absolute backwards compatibility,
most of alternatives suggested in that thread would cause
unacceptable breakage with backwards compatibility or a really
kludge workaround for the support of legacy patches. It seems to
me Phil really has a point I completely agree with. FWIW, I am
looking to implement this in pd-l2ork and as soon as I get a
better idea about the recursion Miller mentioned and how to
circumvent it, it should find its way into pd-l2ork's source.
Best,
Ico

 Cheers,

 Chris.

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DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
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Re: [PD] Should message objects be able to pre-parse $0 into valid dollarzero?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

On 9/11/2014 1:05 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Yes I agree the two ideas may coexist.  But I also think that if the 
two were to coexist, $0 in message boxes would pale in comparison in 
terms of usability.


Hub/node: make a hub on a canvas.  Now every node you create on that 
canvas or subcanvas belongs to that hub.  If you need more than one, 
give them names.


$0: prepend a string with this to make a special name that is unique 
to a canvas and its subpatches (but not abstractions created in 
either).  The dollarsign variable will be filled in at the time the 
patch is created, and given a unique value in the running Pd 
instance.  If you want a name inside an abstraction to share the $0 
with its parent, just send $0 as an abstraction argument, then use the 
corresponding argument number inside the abstraction to retrieve the 
value of the parent $0.


I mean, if you can solve $0 in message boxes in a few hours or so then 
go ahead and do it.  But if it brings up any


Not hours, but rather minutes. That is, unless I am missing something... 
Still not sure, if I fully understood Miller's explanation (see my 
response).


issues that require workarounds I think the time would be better spent 
on building out more hub/node infrastructure.  (And they don't 
necessarily need to have that name, I'm just using it as a placeholder.)


Btw-- I just heard yesterday from someone using Max/MSP about 
something like using a #0- prefixes to hack local scope for receive 
symbols.  Is this still the case there, too?


Very much so.



-Jonathan


On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 1:08 PM, Ivica Bukvic i...@vt.edu wrote:


What about for instance arrays that should maintain scope inside a 
specific abstraction so that you can have multiple independent 
abstractions? $0 is very useful IMHO and is also necessary to stay due 
to backwards compatibility concerns. Therefore, I think the discussion 
should be limited to a simple yes or no for $0 substitution inside a 
message as it does not introduce a myriad of other questions.
Having message recognize it as such (the code already seeks to resolve 
dollarzero but fails because the canvas was not set as current which 
should be a simple addition of a couple of lines of code) makes sense 
even if the only benefit is not having to do [$0] or what you are 
suggesting, namely [zerofy-me]. It is also worth noting that there is 
no reason why the two could not coexist.
Yet, as it stands right now, $0, contrary to what has been already 
said in both threads on this topic, is an anomaly inside a message box 
and behaves like nothing else anywhere else in the code and as such 
this should be a no-brainer fix, just like having a trigger with 
static values, like [t 0 f 1] for opening a gate, passing a value, and 
then immediately closing it. This is what pd-l2ork does (and so does 
Max). So, rather than putting redundant messages with static values 
below the [t b] outlet, one object solves it all. To me this is the 
same situation where message can do it all, and if that makes my 
patching quicker, I am all for it.

On Sep 10, 2014 12:48 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancs...@yahoo.com wrote:

Two things:

1) the lack of $0 in messages is only a symptom of a bigger
problem with scope of binding symbols in Pd.  I'd rather see new
objects (or wrapper objects) that handle scope in a sensible
manner which doesn't require typing $0- at all.  There's already
no need for $0 in your preset_hub/node design.  Why not extend the
hub/node idea and get rid of the need for $0 completely?

[hub]/[node] = [send]/[receive]
[hub~]/[node~] = [throw~]/[catch~]
etc.

2) On a more superficial note, isn't the problem that Pd doesn't
store stray \n characters in message boxes?  The only time I can
think of when one would have a real desire for $0 in a message box
is when initializing a bunch of receivers:

[; $0-foo 1;
$0-bar 2;
$0-flub 3;(

But if the box stored \n you could get the same clean format
with commas:
[foo 1,
bar 2,
flub 3(
|
[zerofy-me] - add a $0- to the selector
| |
[send]

No ugly zeros, no leading semi-colon, everybody wins!

-Jonathan


On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 2:27 AM, Ivica Bukvic
i...@vt.edu wrote:



On Sep 10, 2014 1:17 AM, Chris McCormick ch...@mccormick.cx wrote:

 Hi Ivica,

 On 10/09/14 04:19, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
  Yet, I wonder why message shouldn't be able to pre-parse $0
into a valid
  dollarzero (canvas instance), when there will never be a
message one
 
  Thoughts?

 There has been a lot of discussion regarding this over the years
which
 might be good to read to get an idea on the different
 philosophical/language design issues:


http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.comp.multimedia.puredata.general/56365
Thanks, Chris, for bringing this to my attention. Since one

Re: [PD] How to submit patches to to maxlib and other externals?

[Ivica Ico Bukvic]

No, I don't, but thanks for asking :-) I would not mind having access 
but I am also not sure about the dynamics of different externals. I tend 
to litter my contributions all over, as opposed to a specific library, 
so I am not clear how others would feel about that...


BTW, I discovered one regression for my modular-sized average patch, 
which has been fixed since. Attached is a new revision...


Best,

Ico

On 09/10/2014 06:36 AM, pured...@11h11.com wrote:

Don't you have write access to the external repository?

I don't know if this page is up-to-date:
http://puredata.info/docs/developer/SVNCommitAccess

You can skip the 2. post an introduction to pd-dev of yourself  
3.describe why you need commit access to the repository. Not sure 
who will grant you the permission.


Anyone?
Cheers

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Associate Professor
Computer Music
ICAT Senior Fellow
DISIS, L2Ork
Virginia Tech
School of Performing Arts - 0141
Blacksburg, VA 24061
(540) 231-6139
i...@vt.edu
www.performingarts.vt.edu
disis.music.vt.edu
l2ork.music.vt.edu

--- ../../../pd-extended/externals/maxlib/average.c	2013-10-27 15:48:21.866606276 -0400
+++ average.c	2014-09-09 19:28:16.694066181 -0400
@@ -24,10 +24,10 @@
 
 #include m_pd.h
 #include math.h
+#include stdlib.h
+#include stdio.h
 
-#define MAX_ARG  128/* maximum number of items to average */
-
-static char *version = average v0.1, written by Olaf Matthes olaf.matt...@gmx.de;
+static char *version = average v0.2, written by Olaf Matthes olaf.matt...@gmx.de, revised by Ivica Ico Bukvic i...@vt.edu;
  
 typedef struct average
 {
@@ -38,7 +38,7 @@
   t_outlet *x_outtendency;  /* outputs the tendency of the average */
   t_intx_limit; /* indicates if input is 'blocked' (1) */
   t_intx_index; /* the number of elements to average */
-  t_float  x_input[MAX_ARG];/* stores the input values we need for averaging */
+  t_float  *x_input;		/* stores the input values we need for averaging */
   t_intx_inpointer; /* actual position in above array */
   t_float  x_average;   /* what do you guess ? */
   t_float  x_lastaverage;
@@ -91,7 +91,7 @@
 x-x_average = x-x_average / (float)normalise(x-x_index - 1);
 		} else post(average: internal error!);
 	}
-	if(++x-x_inpointer  x-x_index)
+	if(++x-x_inpointer = x-x_index)
 	{
 		x-x_inpointer = 0;
 		if(x-x_lastaverage  x-x_average)
@@ -111,15 +111,40 @@
 
 static void average_index(t_average *x, t_floatarg f)
 {
-	x-x_index = (t_int)f;
-	if(x-x_index  MAX_ARG)x-x_index = MAX_ARG;
+	if ((t_int)f  0  (t_int)f != x-x_index)
+	{
+		//fprintf(stderr,average_index realloc old=%d new=%d\n, (int)x-x_index, (int)f);
+		int zero_out_new = 0;
+		int i = 0;
+
+		if ((t_int)f  x-x_index)
+			zero_out_new = x-x_index;
+		x-x_index = (t_int)f;
+		if (x-x_inpointer = x-x_index)
+		{
+			x-x_inpointer = 0;
+		}
+		x-x_input = (t_float *)realloc(x-x_input, x-x_index * sizeof(t_float));
+		if (zero_out_new)
+		{
+			for (i = zero_out_new; i  x-x_index; i++)
+x-x_input[i] = 0;			
+		}
+		
+		/* DEBUG:
+		printf(%d %d: , (int)x-x_index, zero_out_new);
+		for (i=0; ix-x_index; i++)
+			printf(%g , x-x_input[i]);
+		printf(\n);
+		*/
+	}
 }
 
 static void average_reset(t_average *x)
 {
 	int i;
-		/* zeroe out the array */
-	for(i = 0; i  MAX_ARG; i++)x-x_input[i] = 0.0;
+		/* zero out the array */
+	for(i = 0; i  x-x_index; i++)x-x_input[i] = 0.0;
 	x-x_inpointer = 0;
 	x-x_average = 0;
 	x-x_lastaverage = 0;
@@ -146,28 +171,24 @@
 
 static void average_free(t_average *x)
 {
-	/* nothing to do */
+	free(x-x_input);
 }
 
 static t_class *average_class;
 
 static void *average_new(t_floatarg f)
 {
-	int i;
-
-t_average *x = (t_average *)pd_new(average_class);
+	t_average *x = (t_average *)pd_new(average_class);
 	x-x_inindex = inlet_new(x-x_ob, x-x_ob.ob_pd, gensym(float), gensym(index));
 	x-x_outfloat = outlet_new(x-x_ob, gensym(float));
 	x-x_outtendency = outlet_new(x-x_ob, gensym(float));
 
-		/* zeroe out the array */
-	for(i = 0; i  MAX_ARG; i++)x-x_input[i] = 0.0;
+		/* zero out the array */
 	x-x_index = (t_int)f;
-	if(x-x_index  MAX_ARG)
-	{
-		x-x_index = MAX_ARG;
-		post(average: set number of items to %d, x-x_index);
-	}
+	if (x-x_index  1)
+		x-x_index = 1;
+	x-x_input = (t_float *)calloc(x-x_index,sizeof(t_float));
+
 	x-x_inpointer = 0;
 	x-x_average = 0;
 	x-x_mode = 0;
___
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