Re: [PD] external terminology

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

> I think that definitely makes sense and
> perhaps I was coming from the wrong/developer
> direction.

yes, I totally consider myself not a "developer*", in the sense I have zero
training in computer science, language and jargons, so all my conceptions
comes from being a pd user and pd patcher... this is the idea I have and
the one I've been propagating to my Pd students, but I've never questioned
it cause I took them for granted...

* though I've been developing some stuff to pd :)

2017-02-19 22:24 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

> Well, like we were discussing in the other thread, I wish to edit the
> puredata.info FAQ section and work on updating "how to install and load
> externals" bit, and also add related stuff on "how to download externals
> from deken"...
>
> As part of this endeavour, I also felt like working on questions like -
> what is an external? What are the types of externals? what is an external
> library? Things we take for granted but when you sit to write it down, you
> start questioning the concepts...
>
> So this is what I'm coming down to, after thinking about it...
>
> *- **Internal objects:** Objects that are part of Pd Vanilla’s binary  *
>
> * - **External objects:** Objects that are **NOT** part of Pd Vanilla’s
> binary (including pd's extra objects)*
>
> * - **Vanilla objects:** Objects that come in the Pd Vanilla distribution
> (which contains the internals plus a small collection of externals - the
> “extra” objects).*
>
> * - **Types of external objects**: 1) Compiled binaries ; 2) Abstractions
> (Pd patches).*
>
> * - **External Library:** Collection of external objects, be it
> abstractions; a set of **separate binaries**; or a **single binary**
> containing several objects.*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2017-02-19 16:39 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox :
>
>> I wasn’t implying my thought process was the “correct” usage of the the
>> terms. :) I think Miller and IOhannes are the ones to weight in.
>>
>> That being said, I think it boils down to, for me, “external(s)” was
>> short for “external library(-ies),” as in software libraries and, even if
>> there is only 1 class or object, it’s still a “library.”
>>
>> From what I understand, your coming from the Pd object side so “external”
>> means “1 object” not part of Pd vanilla and “externals” means “multiple
>> objects” not part of vanilla. I think that definitely makes sense and
>> perhaps I was coming from the wrong/developer direction.
>>
>> So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:
>>
>> external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of
>> the Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object
>>
>> library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I think that’s probably a good way to look at it (as mentioned
>> above).
>>
>> I do like to note when a library is composed completely of abstractions,
>> hence “abstraction library”, as it's easy to use and doesn’t require
>> compilation.
>>
>> 
>> Dan Wilcox
>> @danomatika 
>> danomatika.com
>> robotcowboy.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [PD] external terminology

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

Well, like we were discussing in the other thread, I wish to edit the
puredata.info FAQ section and work on updating "how to install and load
externals" bit, and also add related stuff on "how to download externals
from deken"...

As part of this endeavour, I also felt like working on questions like -
what is an external? What are the types of externals? what is an external
library? Things we take for granted but when you sit to write it down, you
start questioning the concepts...

So this is what I'm coming down to, after thinking about it...

*- **Internal objects:** Objects that are part of Pd Vanilla’s binary  *

* - **External objects:** Objects that are **NOT** part of Pd Vanilla’s
binary (including pd's extra objects)*

* - **Vanilla objects:** Objects that come in the Pd Vanilla distribution
(which contains the internals plus a small collection of externals - the
“extra” objects).*

* - **Types of external objects**: 1) Compiled binaries ; 2) Abstractions
(Pd patches).*

* - **External Library:** Collection of external objects, be it
abstractions; a set of **separate binaries**; or a **single binary**
containing several objects.*








2017-02-19 16:39 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox :

> I wasn’t implying my thought process was the “correct” usage of the the
> terms. :) I think Miller and IOhannes are the ones to weight in.
>
> That being said, I think it boils down to, for me, “external(s)” was short
> for “external library(-ies),” as in software libraries and, even if there
> is only 1 class or object, it’s still a “library.”
>
> From what I understand, your coming from the Pd object side so “external”
> means “1 object” not part of Pd vanilla and “externals” means “multiple
> objects” not part of vanilla. I think that definitely makes sense and
> perhaps I was coming from the wrong/developer direction.
>
> So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:
>
> external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of
> the Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object
>
> library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.
>
>
> Yeah, I think that’s probably a good way to look at it (as mentioned
> above).
>
> I do like to note when a library is composed completely of abstractions,
> hence “abstraction library”, as it's easy to use and doesn’t require
> compilation.
>
> 
> Dan Wilcox
> @danomatika 
> danomatika.com
> robotcowboy.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: [PD] external terminology

[Dan Wilcox]

I wasn’t implying my thought process was the “correct” usage of the the terms. 
:) I think Miller and IOhannes are the ones to weight in.

That being said, I think it boils down to, for me, “external(s)” was short for 
“external library(-ies),” as in software libraries and, even if there is only 1 
class or object, it’s still a “library.”

From what I understand, your coming from the Pd object side so “external” means 
“1 object” not part of Pd vanilla and “externals” means “multiple objects” not 
part of vanilla. I think that definitely makes sense and perhaps I was coming 
from the wrong/developer direction.

> So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:
> 
> external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of the 
> Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object 
> 
> library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.

Yeah, I think that’s probably a good way to look at it (as mentioned above).

I do like to note when a library is composed completely of abstractions, hence 
“abstraction library”, as it's easy to use and doesn’t require compilation. 


Dan Wilcox
@danomatika 
danomatika.com 
robotcowboy.com 



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Re: [PD] external terminology

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-19 12:34 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres :

>
> But I've never seen people referring to, for example, the freeverb~
> external as the "freeverb~ library".
>

So I checked freeverb~'s readme just to see how it referred to itself,
here's the description

freeverb~ version 1.2
reverb *external* for Pure Data and Max/MSP
written by Olaf Matthes 
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Re: [PD] external terminology

[Alexandre Torres Porres]

2017-02-19 8:12 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox :

> I think in terms of:
>
> external: set of objects which are not part of the Pd core
>

Never thought of "external" (singular) in terms of a "set". Don't you mean
"an object" that is not part of Pd Core. By the way, by "Pd Core", do you
mean the Pd binary (not including the "extra" files?) or all objects in the
Pd Vanilla distribution?


library: compiled external object(s), akin to software library
>
> abstraction library: collection of patch abstraction object(s)
>

Well, I always thought that a library could have compiled objects,
abstractions, or both. I have seen many libraries in Extended that had both
compiled and abstractions objects.

And, again, I'm confused with the singular/plural idea. Seems you're
thinking that only one abstraction can be a "library", or just a single
compiled object. But I've never seen people referring to, for example, the
freeverb~ external as the "freeverb~ library". So my idea of "library" is
really a collection of objects.

Surely I might have gotten things just wrong and that's why I'm asking if
there is a consensus in the terminology

So, in short, the idea I've had so far is:

external (kinda short for "external object"): a single object not part of
the Pd Vanilla distribution, either an abstraction or a compiled object

library (kinda short for "externals library"): collection of externals.

cheers
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