Re: OT? Transfers

[Igor PDML-StR]

Regarding WD vs Seagate vs HGST vs Toshiba, ...

My opinion is that there is no big difference between reliability of HDDs 
from the major brands WD, Seagate, and HGST. (Actually HGST is now a part 
of WD.) I am not talking about the "bleeding edge" models.


There are models (lines) in each manufacturer's portfolio that are 
better, and those that have high failure rates.
Some people get burnt on one bad model, and swear off to never buy from 
that manufacturer again.

That's about internal drives, and that also applies to the external ones.
IMHO, the biggest differences for the external HDDs is in the design of 
the enclosures and HDD controllers that they use.


One of the internet hosting companies has been posting (every quarter?) 
information about the failure rate of HDDs from different manufacturers.
Unless you have exactly the same model, - I wouldn't worry about that 
statistics: the chances are that what those companies are using in the 
servers would be different models from what you'd be getting inside an 
external HDD.


One additional word of caution:
There are currently only 4 brands (Seagate, WD+HGST, Toshiba) of HDD 
manufacturers. All other brands are using HDDs manufactured by any 
of these 4. I've seen one, relatively new, brand (attributed to Japan) 
that is selling internal HDDs branded with their brand. And those are 
somewhat cheaper than the rest of the "pack".
From what I was able to figure out, - those are refurbished and rebranded 

HDDs. Caveat Emptor!

Igor




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Re: OT? Transfers

[Paul Stenquist]

Newegg is great. I buy a lot from them.

Paul via phone

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 9:20 PM, John Francis  wrote:
> 
> 
> Newegg isn't too bad, either - they'll currently ship a WD elements
> 2TB drive to you (free shipping) for less than what staples charge
> for the Seagate (and about what Frys want for it in-store).
> I haven't had my one long enough to be able to offer any reasonable 
> estimate of life expectancy, but WD now are supposedly better than
> they were a while ago.
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 08:43:38PM -0500, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> There are way better deals than Staples online. Start at Amazon.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:36 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dave - how much is the 2tb at Stapleswhere you are?
>>> 
>>> ann
>>> 
>>> 
 On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
 I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
 DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
 Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
 thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
 transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
 thumb drives.?
 
 Dave
 
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: OT? Transfers

[Paul Stenquist]

Politics doesn't enter into my buying decisions. It's not a black and white 
issue,

Paul via phone

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 9:20 PM, John  wrote:
> 
> Staples currently has them at $89.99. Amazon & Newegg have them for $79.99
> 
> For me, the extra $10 to Staples is worth it because they have a local
> store & collect NC Sales tax at the time of sale, so I don't have to
> figure North Carolina's EFFED-UP internet tax at the end of the year.
> 
> If I was going to buy over the internet, I'd buy from Newegg because I
> don't think they abuse their employees as much as Amazon does.
> 
> YMMV.
> 
> Plus, I don't know if the Canadian Dollar is up or down compared to the
> US Dollar so Dave might still get out better buying from a local Staples
> store than having to deal with Amazon & Canadian customs.
> 
>> On 12/8/2016 8:43 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:
>> There are way better deals than Staples online. Start at Amazon.
>> 
>> Paul via phone
>> 
>>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:36 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dave - how much is the 2tb at Stapleswhere you are?
>>> 
>>> ann
>>> 
>>> 
 On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
 I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
 DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
 Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
 thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
 transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
 thumb drives.?
 
 Dave
 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
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> Religion - Answers we must never question.
> 
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Re: OT? Transfers

[John Francis]

Newegg isn't too bad, either - they'll currently ship a WD elements
2TB drive to you (free shipping) for less than what staples charge
for the Seagate (and about what Frys want for it in-store).
I haven't had my one long enough to be able to offer any reasonable 
estimate of life expectancy, but WD now are supposedly better than
they were a while ago.

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 08:43:38PM -0500, Paul Stenquist wrote:
> There are way better deals than Staples online. Start at Amazon.
> 
> Paul via phone
> 
> > On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:36 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> > 
> > Dave - how much is the 2tb at Stapleswhere you are?
> > 
> > ann
> > 
> > 
> >> On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
> >> I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
> >> DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
> >> Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
> >> thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
> >> transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
> >> thumb drives.?
> >> 
> >> Dave
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
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Re: OT? Transfers

[John]

Staples currently has them at $89.99. Amazon & Newegg have them for $79.99

For me, the extra $10 to Staples is worth it because they have a local
store & collect NC Sales tax at the time of sale, so I don't have to
figure North Carolina's EFFED-UP internet tax at the end of the year.

If I was going to buy over the internet, I'd buy from Newegg because I
don't think they abuse their employees as much as Amazon does.

YMMV.

Plus, I don't know if the Canadian Dollar is up or down compared to the
US Dollar so Dave might still get out better buying from a local Staples
store than having to deal with Amazon & Canadian customs.

On 12/8/2016 8:43 PM, Paul Stenquist wrote:

There are way better deals than Staples online. Start at Amazon.

Paul via phone


On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:36 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:

Dave - how much is the 2tb at Stapleswhere you are?

ann



On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
thumb drives.?

Dave







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Re: OT? Transfers

[Paul Stenquist]

Look at Other World. Computing also. Staples is pricey in my experience.

Paul via phone

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:36 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> 
> Dave - how much is the 2tb at Stapleswhere you are?
> 
> ann
> 
> 
>> On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>> I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
>> DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
>> Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
>> thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
>> transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
>> thumb drives.?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT? Transfers

[Paul Stenquist]

There are way better deals than Staples online. Start at Amazon.

Paul via phone

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 8:36 PM, ann sanfedele  wrote:
> 
> Dave - how much is the 2tb at Stapleswhere you are?
> 
> ann
> 
> 
>> On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:
>> I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
>> DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
>> Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
>> thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
>> transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
>> thumb drives.?
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT? Transfers

[Larry Colen]

David J Brooks wrote:

oh another question. Am i getting into any troubel if i go more then
2TB for the drive, say a 3 or 4. its an older computer, 2011 iMac
21.5" with OS 10.11.6


BTW, if you have gigabit ethernet, you also might do well with a NAS box 
for your external archives.


Is your iMac one of the vintage where you can use it as a thunderbolt 
monitor for another mac?


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Re: OT? Transfers

[ann sanfedele]

Dave - how much is the 2tb at Stapleswhere you are?

ann


On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:

I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
thumb drives.?

Dave




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Re: OT? Transfers

[Zos Xavius]

I would suggest avoiding Seagate as they currently have the highest
failure rates. Hitachi is actually the most reliable by far with 2%
failure rates. Western Digital comes in a distant second. I use
Western Digital drives mostly and they have been reliable. So has my
hitachi drives. I have an old Lacie 2 drive raid array with hitachi
drives that is still churning along just fine and filling in as part
of a bigger soft raid array. I did have to replace the power supply
because their power supplies are garbage and fail, but that happens.
How much storage would all of your files take up currently? For the
cost I would suggest 4tb externals over 2tb because they aren't really
that much more for 2x the storage. I currently have my whole catalog
stored on a Western Digital Elements 2-drive raid array. It wasn't
exactly cheap, but I did get a decent deal on ebay going with one with
two refurbished drives. I think they are $350 or so new. They use USB3
and actually have three USB3 ports on the back which is super nice for
plugging more externals in. Whatever you get, do yourself a huge favor
and at least get an external 4tb drive as a backup. I have a regular
4tb Western Digital Elements drive and for a brief time I used that to
store my catalog and it was reliable. I think I paid $125 or so for
it. Two of those would likely serve you well and be large enough to
cover your data needs for some time. Just a suggestion really.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 6:39 PM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> oh another question. Am i getting into any troubel if i go more then
> 2TB for the drive, say a 3 or 4. its an older computer, 2011 iMac
> 21.5" with OS 10.11.6
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 6:33 PM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>> Good ideas Igor. I have always used Seagate HDD's but never really
>> looked at reviews. I'll do that
>>
>> iMac is USB 2
>>
>> Just wondering now if i should copy them to my HD then to the new
>> external that way they will be on my time machine drive aswell (ie 2
>> drives). I have alwasys in the past had two externals hooked up to the
>> computer, plus i will still have the CD/DVD's
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> Daev
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>>>
>>> Zos said what I was going to say.
>>> You will not feel a difference between 7200 and 5400 rpm drives in the
>>> transfer rate when you are backing up photos.
>>>
>>> The main situation when you feel the difference is in the "random access",
>>> when the system/program accesses many small files. (E.g. in case of a LR
>>> database.)
>>>
>>> Something else to add to this:
>>> 1. I would rely on a reasonable HDD much more than on a flash thumb drive.
>>> 2. HDDs (especially the cheaper ones, low grade "consumer" models.) still
>>> have a good chance to fail. So, if some photos are really important to you,
>>> you might consider having an additional backup copy.
>>> 3. When you are choosing the HDD model, - take a look at the reviews on
>>> Amazon or Newegg.com - some HDDs have higher rate of failures, including
>>> DoA. Read the lowest ratings for the contender HDD, and see what are the
>>> problems that people are complaining about.
>>> Note, that you will find negative reviews for ALL HDDs, it's the percentage
>>> of those that matters.
>>>
>>> 4. IMHO, the "sweet spots" (price-wise) for the HDDs are now at 5-6TB, and
>>> also for some drives at 2-3 TB.
>>>
>>> 5. While people have mentioned that CD reading rate will be the limiting
>>> factor, - in the future, you'll continue using this HDD for backups.
>>> So, - if your computer supports USB 3.0, I'd highly recommend buying a USB
>>> 3.0 HDD.
>>> [If your computer doesn't have a USB 3.0 port, - it might be worth
>>> considering options of adding a USB 3.0 controller to it.]
>>> In my experience, even with a USB-2 controller, USB-3.0 external HDDs get a
>>> slightly higher sustained transfer rate. (Though the difference is not as
>>> significant, as in case of a USB 3.0 controller.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Igor
>>>
>>>
>>> Zos Xavius Thu, 08 Dec 2016 08:28:55 -0800 wrote:
>>>
>>> The CD is going to be slower than any drive you connect it to. Don't
>>> worry about rpms. Most externals are 5400 anyways. You'll spend a
>>> premium to get a 7200rpm drive that is external and it won't really
>>> gain you much in transfer speed though your random seek times will
>>> improve. Something that doesn't matter when transferring large files
>>> really.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:

 thanks, never thought to look at rpm's

 Dave

 On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist 
 wrote:
>
> Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive. Make
> sure
> it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At
> least
> in my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb drives

Re: OT? Transfers

[Larry Colen]

David J Brooks wrote:

Good ideas Igor. I have always used Seagate HDD's but never really
looked at reviews. I'll do that

iMac is USB 2


You can get Thunderbolt to USB 3 adapters for prices that are merely 
rapacious, unlike the obscenely rapacious costs of thunderbolt drives.


Something like this can be handy for backups, unfortunately, my EZ-Dock2 
tends to cause disks to unmount when they haven't been accessed for a 
bit, and remounting really hits performance, so it's not a good solution 
for always on external storage.




Just wondering now if i should copy them to my HD then to the new
external that way they will be on my time machine drive aswell (ie 2
drives). I have alwasys in the past had two externals hooked up to the
computer, plus i will still have the CD/DVD's


How big is your Time Machine drive?

For that matter, how many GB or TB of raw files do you have that you 
need to back up?


As to other questions, you should be able to go 6-8 TB on your system.

Also, I'm not sure which would apply to yours, this is also an option:

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2308+Hard+Drive+Replacement/1766 



https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+21.5-Inch+EMC+2428+Hard+Drive+Replacement/5954 



https://www.ifixit.com/Store/Mac/iMac-Intel-21-5-Inch-Mid-2011-Dual-Hard-Drive-Kit/IF173-002-1 




-- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc


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Re: OT? Transfers

[David J Brooks]

my cell does not have a data plan its an ancient emergency plan with
20 min talk and $0.15 a trext, i can access internet only if i have
access to mine or someone else s wifi so that's out for me

Dave

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:48 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>
> Phone? For uploading RAW photo files?
> That's out of question (unless you are talking about 1-2...)
> I don't know about your phone data plan, but most are not unlimited these
> days. Mine is only 2GB per month.
>
> Even for the landline, using Cloud storage for backup can be complicated,
> depending on (1) the amount of photos you take.
> And it also depends on (2) your internet connection:
>  (a) upload rate
>  (b) traffic caps.
>
> E.g. I am using 50 down/ 5 up Mbps connection at home, and the monthly "data
> allowance" is 250 GB.
> To upload a full 64 GB SD card at that speed (5 Mbps =~ 600 kBps, it would
> take over 30 hours, assuming full bandwidth utilization (and not all cloud
> services have fast connection for upload).
> And then it is easy to calculate, how many cards you can upload assuming
> that you are using your bandwidth for something else as well (e.g. watching
> video, downloading software, work, )
>
> Igor
>
> PS. Even with a K5 camera I can fill a 64 card if I am shooting an event.
> And I am sure, it's much easier with K-1.
>
>
>  Collin B Thu, 08 Dec 2016 12:41:36 -0800 wrote:
>
>> Igor makes a lot of good points, I may double up on a few:
>>
>> You really want to transfer your files to a couple of external drives,
>> one of which to be kept someplace other than your house.  Perhaps do a
>> swap deal with someone else on the list for offsite storage.
>>
>> Do pay attention to HDD reliability, much ameliorated by redundancy:
>> https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/
>>
>> The difference USB 3 makes is huge, nearly as fast as internal, often
>> faster than the drive's transfer speed.
>
>
>
> I'm not a fan of cloud storage but this is one place where it may really pay
> off.
> My thought is a NAS in the home/office coupled with the cloud.
> Networks are quick. And if you have lots of data available and are in the
> field, use your phone to upload your SD to the cloud.
> Retrieve it later to sync with your home/office PC.
>
>
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Re: OT? Transfers

[David J Brooks]

oh another question. Am i getting into any troubel if i go more then
2TB for the drive, say a 3 or 4. its an older computer, 2011 iMac
21.5" with OS 10.11.6

Dave

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 6:33 PM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> Good ideas Igor. I have always used Seagate HDD's but never really
> looked at reviews. I'll do that
>
> iMac is USB 2
>
> Just wondering now if i should copy them to my HD then to the new
> external that way they will be on my time machine drive aswell (ie 2
> drives). I have alwasys in the past had two externals hooked up to the
> computer, plus i will still have the CD/DVD's
>
> Dave
>
> Daev
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>>
>> Zos said what I was going to say.
>> You will not feel a difference between 7200 and 5400 rpm drives in the
>> transfer rate when you are backing up photos.
>>
>> The main situation when you feel the difference is in the "random access",
>> when the system/program accesses many small files. (E.g. in case of a LR
>> database.)
>>
>> Something else to add to this:
>> 1. I would rely on a reasonable HDD much more than on a flash thumb drive.
>> 2. HDDs (especially the cheaper ones, low grade "consumer" models.) still
>> have a good chance to fail. So, if some photos are really important to you,
>> you might consider having an additional backup copy.
>> 3. When you are choosing the HDD model, - take a look at the reviews on
>> Amazon or Newegg.com - some HDDs have higher rate of failures, including
>> DoA. Read the lowest ratings for the contender HDD, and see what are the
>> problems that people are complaining about.
>> Note, that you will find negative reviews for ALL HDDs, it's the percentage
>> of those that matters.
>>
>> 4. IMHO, the "sweet spots" (price-wise) for the HDDs are now at 5-6TB, and
>> also for some drives at 2-3 TB.
>>
>> 5. While people have mentioned that CD reading rate will be the limiting
>> factor, - in the future, you'll continue using this HDD for backups.
>> So, - if your computer supports USB 3.0, I'd highly recommend buying a USB
>> 3.0 HDD.
>> [If your computer doesn't have a USB 3.0 port, - it might be worth
>> considering options of adding a USB 3.0 controller to it.]
>> In my experience, even with a USB-2 controller, USB-3.0 external HDDs get a
>> slightly higher sustained transfer rate. (Though the difference is not as
>> significant, as in case of a USB 3.0 controller.)
>>
>>
>> Igor
>>
>>
>> Zos Xavius Thu, 08 Dec 2016 08:28:55 -0800 wrote:
>>
>> The CD is going to be slower than any drive you connect it to. Don't
>> worry about rpms. Most externals are 5400 anyways. You'll spend a
>> premium to get a 7200rpm drive that is external and it won't really
>> gain you much in transfer speed though your random seek times will
>> improve. Something that doesn't matter when transferring large files
>> really.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>>>
>>> thanks, never thought to look at rpm's
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist 
>>> wrote:

 Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive. Make
 sure
 it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At
 least
 in my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb drives
 that
 I’ve gotten at press conferences.
 Paul
>
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>
> I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
> DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
> Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
> thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
> transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
> thumb drives.?
>
> Dave
>>
>>
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Re: OT? Transfers

[David J Brooks]

Good ideas Igor. I have always used Seagate HDD's but never really
looked at reviews. I'll do that

iMac is USB 2

Just wondering now if i should copy them to my HD then to the new
external that way they will be on my time machine drive aswell (ie 2
drives). I have alwasys in the past had two externals hooked up to the
computer, plus i will still have the CD/DVD's

Dave

Daev

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 1:13 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>
> Zos said what I was going to say.
> You will not feel a difference between 7200 and 5400 rpm drives in the
> transfer rate when you are backing up photos.
>
> The main situation when you feel the difference is in the "random access",
> when the system/program accesses many small files. (E.g. in case of a LR
> database.)
>
> Something else to add to this:
> 1. I would rely on a reasonable HDD much more than on a flash thumb drive.
> 2. HDDs (especially the cheaper ones, low grade "consumer" models.) still
> have a good chance to fail. So, if some photos are really important to you,
> you might consider having an additional backup copy.
> 3. When you are choosing the HDD model, - take a look at the reviews on
> Amazon or Newegg.com - some HDDs have higher rate of failures, including
> DoA. Read the lowest ratings for the contender HDD, and see what are the
> problems that people are complaining about.
> Note, that you will find negative reviews for ALL HDDs, it's the percentage
> of those that matters.
>
> 4. IMHO, the "sweet spots" (price-wise) for the HDDs are now at 5-6TB, and
> also for some drives at 2-3 TB.
>
> 5. While people have mentioned that CD reading rate will be the limiting
> factor, - in the future, you'll continue using this HDD for backups.
> So, - if your computer supports USB 3.0, I'd highly recommend buying a USB
> 3.0 HDD.
> [If your computer doesn't have a USB 3.0 port, - it might be worth
> considering options of adding a USB 3.0 controller to it.]
> In my experience, even with a USB-2 controller, USB-3.0 external HDDs get a
> slightly higher sustained transfer rate. (Though the difference is not as
> significant, as in case of a USB 3.0 controller.)
>
>
> Igor
>
>
> Zos Xavius Thu, 08 Dec 2016 08:28:55 -0800 wrote:
>
> The CD is going to be slower than any drive you connect it to. Don't
> worry about rpms. Most externals are 5400 anyways. You'll spend a
> premium to get a 7200rpm drive that is external and it won't really
> gain you much in transfer speed though your random seek times will
> improve. Something that doesn't matter when transferring large files
> really.
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>>
>> thanks, never thought to look at rpm's
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive. Make
>>> sure
>>> it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At
>>> least
>>> in my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb drives
>>> that
>>> I’ve gotten at press conferences.
>>> Paul

 On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:

 I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
 DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
 Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
 thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
 transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
 thumb drives.?

 Dave
>
>
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OT: Service interruption

[John Francis]

My main computer appears to be dying (I've been unable to boot
it reliably since last Saturday), so I haven't been looking at
PDML, etc., for a few days (I read PDML via my Unix shell account
at panix, and I didn't have a secure SSH client set up on any of
the other machines until I found the time to track down a licence
code and install the one I like on my little travelling system).

I'll be limited to this machine for around another week, until the
replacement system gets here.  It's been a while since I looked at
computer systems, and I was somewhat surprised to discover that for
what is now apparently referred to as a "gaming" machine there was
no significant saving to be made by buying a tower system instead
of a laptop (which, of course, already comes with a display).

I still need it to be a Windows machine (I do occasionally still
have to do some c++ bugfixing, but at least that meant I was able
to get a contribution to the cost from my occasional employer).
So in another week I should be taking delivery of a system that
I hope will meet my needs for the next five years.  While the CPU
isn't all that much of a step up from the older system - both are
quad i7 configurations, so improvements are less noticeable there,
everything else should be a big step forward.  The most noticeable
change is that you can now get 4K displays on a laptop!  While my
older machine was 1920 x 1200 (I do like that last 10% of height) 
there aren't many 16:10 systems around, so I'll have to hope that
the extra resolution means I can work with slightly smaller text
(measured in physical screen size).  I've also got four times as
much memory, and 4.5 times as much disk space (of which that last
0.5x is an SSD, so I should see a big performance gain there!)

Now I'm just working out what extra cables I need  :-(  One year
ago both my wife's machine and my one were still using VGA cables
to hook each up to external monitors to provide a second display.
When we decided to replace my wife's machine her new system only
had an HDMI connector, but fortunately the monitor we were using
for that machine also had a DVI-D input (as well as the VGA input,
which it called D-Sub), so an HDMI-to-DVI-D cable solves that.

The machine I'm using at the moment only has a mini display port,
(which is, I believe, the same as Thunderbolt 2) but fortunately
my external monitor (also 1920 x 1200) has a display port input
(as well as both VGA and DVI-D), so a simple mini_dp to display
port cable should take care of that. I'll also be able to use
the same cable on my new machine (which provides both HDMI and
mini_dp outputs), but I'll probably get myself another HDMI to
DVI-D cable and leave the display port connector available for
when I yield to temptation and put a 4K monitor on my desk.
I believe that the nVidia graphics configuration in my new machine
will be able to drive all three displays - that's a lot of pixels!

connector (which is, I believe, a Thunderbolt 2 


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Re: OT? Transfers

[Igor PDML-StR]

Phone? For uploading RAW photo files?
That's out of question (unless you are talking about 1-2...)
I don't know about your phone data plan, but most are not unlimited these 
days. Mine is only 2GB per month.


Even for the landline, using Cloud storage for backup can be complicated, 
depending on (1) the amount of photos you take.

And it also depends on (2) your internet connection:
 (a) upload rate
 (b) traffic caps.

E.g. I am using 50 down/ 5 up Mbps connection at home, and the monthly 
"data allowance" is 250 GB.
To upload a full 64 GB SD card at that speed (5 Mbps =~ 600 kBps, it 
would take over 30 hours, assuming full bandwidth utilization (and not 
all cloud services have fast connection for upload).
And then it is easy to calculate, how many cards you can upload assuming 
that you are using your bandwidth for something else as well (e.g. 
watching video, downloading software, work, )


Igor

PS. Even with a K5 camera I can fill a 64 card if I am shooting an event. 
And I am sure, it's much easier with K-1.



 Collin B Thu, 08 Dec 2016 12:41:36 -0800 wrote:


Igor makes a lot of good points, I may double up on a few:

You really want to transfer your files to a couple of external drives,
one of which to be kept someplace other than your house.  Perhaps do a
swap deal with someone else on the list for offsite storage.

Do pay attention to HDD reliability, much ameliorated by redundancy:
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/

The difference USB 3 makes is huge, nearly as fast as internal, often
faster than the drive's transfer speed.



I'm not a fan of cloud storage but this is one place where it may really 
pay off.

My thought is a NAS in the home/office coupled with the cloud.
Networks are quick. And if you have lots of data available and are in the
field, use your phone to upload your SD to the cloud.
Retrieve it later to sync with your home/office PC.


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Re: PESO - Pedicabs

[Gonz]

Very nice.  Always wanted to capture the fascinating variety of
pedi-cabs we have here, and the interestingly dressed pedi-cabbists.


On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 9:31 AM, Jack Davis  wrote:
> Deft camera work, Rick!
>
> J
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Dec 6, 2016, at 6:49 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>>
>> very enjoyable photo Rick
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Rick Womer  wrote:
>>> Another from the San Diego waterfront:
>>>
>>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18318872=lg
>>>
>>> (K-5, DA 16-45)
>>>
>>> Comments appreciated.
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> follow the directions.
>>
>>
>>
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>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>
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Re: OT? Transfers

[Collin B]

>Igor makes a lot of good points, I may double up on a few:
>
>You really want to transfer your files to a couple of external drives, 
>one of which to be kept someplace other than your house.  Perhaps do a 
>swap deal with someone else on the list for offsite storage.
>
>Do pay attention to HDD reliability, much ameliorated by redundancy:
>https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/
>
>The difference USB 3 makes is huge, nearly as fast as internal, often 
>faster than the drive's transfer speed.

I'm not a fan of cloud storage but this is one place where it may really pay
off.
My thought is a NAS in the home/office coupled with the cloud.
Networks are quick. And if you have lots of data available and are in the
field, use your phone to upload your SD to the cloud.
Retrieve it later to sync with your home/office PC.



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I'll get you something for Christmas if you get me this

[Collin B]

https://mpex.com/schneider-pc-ts-super-angulon-50mm-2-8-pentax.html


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Re: PESO - 'On the Dew Line'

[Ken Waller]

Thank you Rick and Malcolm for commenting.

Rick I might try working with the background but in general I try to make my 
images replicate the scene as I recall them being. This web was hanging over 
a body of water and I took the image shooting down from a dirt bank.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Rick Womer" 

Subject: Re: PESO - 'On the Dew Line'



Ken, I like the pun--one can imagine the web as a radar dish!

I think the photo needs more contrast; one could make the background much 
darker.


Cheers,

Rick

On Dec 7, 2016, at 1:15 PM, Ken Waller wrote:

Taken early on a late summer morning in Seney National Wildlife Refuge in 
the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.


K-3, 300mm f4.5, 1/50 @ f11, 100 ISO

Comments appreciated.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18319419


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller 



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Re: Pentax 67 pentaprism issue

[John]

I'm not exactly sure how the 6x7 pentaprism is constructed, but if
there's some kind of corrector glued to the bottom the way lens elements
are sometimes glued together, it might be something that's got into the
glue.

"Bugs" don't eat glass, but they will eat glue.

On 12/8/2016 1:06 PM, Gonz wrote:

It looks a little symmetrical to me because it is right where the top
edge of the prism is.  When looked at closely, it appears like little
trails left behind by a burrowing insect, but of course insects do not
burrow in glass (that I know of).

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Collin B  wrote:

Fungus looks more symmetrical. That looks like lint to me.  Too much sense
of depth to the smaller piece.
Assuming that it is lint ...
Check the focusing screen.  If that's not it then remove the focusing screen
and try a light poof of air to blow it out.








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Religion - Answers we must never question.

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Re: OT? Transfers

[John]

Trade-offs may apply:

If you copy your entire image catalog to the external drive, they're all
in one place that becomes a possible single point of failure. If you
spread your catalog across a number of thumb drives, you multiply the
possibility of having one of them fail.

Maybe your best choice is to copy the CDs to the external drive & then
duplicate them onto a bunch of thumb drives so that you have two copies
of your "backup".

And as has been pointed out here many times before, it's not really a
backup until you have a copy of it off site.

On 12/8/2016 11:27 AM, Zos Xavius wrote:

The CD is going to be slower than any drive you connect it to. Don't
worry about rpms. Most externals are 5400 anyways. You'll spend a
premium to get a 7200rpm drive that is external and it won't really
gain you much in transfer speed though your random seek times will
improve. Something that doesn't matter when transferring large files
really.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:

thanks, never thought to look at rpm's

Dave

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:

Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny
drive. Make sure it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem
to fail frequently. At least in my experience, although that’s
based on use of recycled thumb drives that I’ve gotten at press
conferences.

Paul

On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:

I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
thumb drives.?

Dave




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Re: OT? Transfers

[Larry Colen]

Igor makes a lot of good points, I may double up on a few:

You really want to transfer your files to a couple of external drives, 
one of which to be kept someplace other than your house.  Perhaps do a 
swap deal with someone else on the list for offsite storage.


Do pay attention to HDD reliability, much ameliorated by redundancy:
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/hard-drive-reliability-stats-q1-2016/

The difference USB 3 makes is huge, nearly as fast as internal, often 
faster than the drive's transfer speed.




Igor PDML-StR wrote:


Zos said what I was going to say.
You will not feel a difference between 7200 and 5400 rpm drives in the
transfer rate when you are backing up photos.

The main situation when you feel the difference is in the "random
access", when the system/program accesses many small files. (E.g. in
case of a LR database.)

Something else to add to this:
1. I would rely on a reasonable HDD much more than on a flash thumb drive.
2. HDDs (especially the cheaper ones, low grade "consumer" models.)
still have a good chance to fail. So, if some photos are really
important to you, you might consider having an additional backup copy.
3. When you are choosing the HDD model, - take a look at the reviews on
Amazon or Newegg.com - some HDDs have higher rate of failures, including
DoA. Read the lowest ratings for the contender HDD, and see what are the
problems that people are complaining about.
Note, that you will find negative reviews for ALL HDDs, it's the
percentage of those that matters.

4. IMHO, the "sweet spots" (price-wise) for the HDDs are now at 5-6TB,
and also for some drives at 2-3 TB.

5. While people have mentioned that CD reading rate will be the limiting
factor, - in the future, you'll continue using this HDD for backups.
So, - if your computer supports USB 3.0, I'd highly recommend buying a
USB 3.0 HDD.
[If your computer doesn't have a USB 3.0 port, - it might be worth
considering options of adding a USB 3.0 controller to it.]
In my experience, even with a USB-2 controller, USB-3.0 external HDDs
get a slightly higher sustained transfer rate. (Though the difference is
not as significant, as in case of a USB 3.0 controller.)


Igor


Zos Xavius Thu, 08 Dec 2016 08:28:55 -0800 wrote:

The CD is going to be slower than any drive you connect it to. Don't
worry about rpms. Most externals are 5400 anyways. You'll spend a
premium to get a 7200rpm drive that is external and it won't really
gain you much in transfer speed though your random seek times will
improve. Something that doesn't matter when transferring large files
really.


On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David J Brooks 
wrote:

thanks, never thought to look at rpm's

Dave

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist 
wrote:

Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive.
Make sure
it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At
least
in my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb
drives that
I’ve gotten at press conferences.
Paul

On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks 
wrote:

I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
thumb drives.?

Dave




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Re: PESO - The Naked Violinist

[Ken Waller]

Marco, I like the concept of the image but wish the background was more 
OOF to separate it more from the subject.


Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Marco Alpert" 

Subject: PESO - The Naked Violinist



Totally safe for work (sorry):

http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo16/peso38.html

Comments, as always, welcomed.

-Marco

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Re: OT? Transfers

[Igor PDML-StR]

Zos said what I was going to say.
You will not feel a difference between 7200 and 5400 rpm drives in the 
transfer rate when you are backing up photos.


The main situation when you feel the difference is in the "random access", 
when the system/program accesses many small files. (E.g. in case of a LR 
database.)


Something else to add to this:
1. I would rely on a reasonable HDD much more than on a flash thumb drive.
2. HDDs (especially the cheaper ones, low grade "consumer" models.) still 
have a good chance to fail. So, if some photos are really important to 
you, you might consider having an additional backup copy.
3. When you are choosing the HDD model, - take a look at the reviews on 
Amazon or Newegg.com - some HDDs have higher rate of failures, including 
DoA. Read the lowest ratings for the contender HDD, and see what are the 
problems that people are complaining about.
Note, that you will find negative reviews for ALL HDDs, it's the 
percentage of those that matters.


4. IMHO, the "sweet spots" (price-wise) for the HDDs are now at 5-6TB, and 
also for some drives at 2-3 TB.


5. While people have mentioned that CD reading rate will be the limiting 
factor, - in the future, you'll continue using this HDD for backups.
So, - if your computer supports USB 3.0, I'd highly recommend buying a USB 
3.0 HDD.
[If your computer doesn't have a USB 3.0 port, - it might be worth 
considering options of adding a USB 3.0 controller to it.]
In my experience, even with a USB-2 controller, USB-3.0 external HDDs get 
a slightly higher sustained transfer rate. (Though the difference is not 
as significant, as in case of a USB 3.0 controller.)



Igor


Zos Xavius Thu, 08 Dec 2016 08:28:55 -0800 wrote:

The CD is going to be slower than any drive you connect it to. Don't
worry about rpms. Most externals are 5400 anyways. You'll spend a
premium to get a 7200rpm drive that is external and it won't really
gain you much in transfer speed though your random seek times will
improve. Something that doesn't matter when transferring large files
really.


On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:

thanks, never thought to look at rpm's

Dave

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist 
wrote:

Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive. Make sure
it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At least
in my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb drives that
I’ve gotten at press conferences.
Paul

On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:

I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
thumb drives.?

Dave


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Re: Pentax 67 pentaprism issue

[Gonz]

It looks a little symmetrical to me because it is right where the top
edge of the prism is.  When looked at closely, it appears like little
trails left behind by a burrowing insect, but of course insects do not
burrow in glass (that I know of).

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:26 AM, Collin B  wrote:
> Fungus looks more symmetrical. That looks like lint to me.  Too much sense
> of depth to the smaller piece.
> Assuming that it is lint ...
> Check the focusing screen.  If that's not it then remove the focusing screen
> and try a light poof of air to blow it out.
>
>
>
> --
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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Re: PESO - The Naked Violinist

[Bruce Walker]

On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 11:58 PM, Marco Alpert  wrote:
>
> Totally safe for work (sorry):

I see that the fiddly bits are covered.


> http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo16/peso38.html
>
> Comments, as always, welcomed.
>
> -Marco

Nicely done, Marco.

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Re: Pentax 67 pentaprism issue

[Collin B]

Fungus looks more symmetrical. That looks like lint to me.  Too much sense
of depth to the smaller piece.
Assuming that it is lint ...
Check the focusing screen.  If that's not it then remove the focusing screen
and try a light poof of air to blow it out.



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Re: OT? Transfers

[P.J. Alling]

It kind of depends on the bus speed. However all other things being 
equal, the Thumb drives should be faster than a cd/dvd drive.  All 
things are seldom equal.


The one thing that is sure, the 32 gig thumb drives will require less 
user intervention assuming you packed as many files onto the thumb 
drives and dvd's as possible.


On 12/8/2016 10:38 AM, David J Brooks wrote:

I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
thumb drives.?

Dave




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Re: PESO - The Naked Violinist

[Marco Alpert]

Thanks, Philip and Malcolm. 

m

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 9:10 PM, Philip Northeast  wrote:
> 
> lovely effect with the shallow DOF, excellent tone and contrast as usual
> 
> Philip Northeast
> 
> www.aviewfinderdarkly.com.au
> 
> On 8/12/16 3:58 pm, Marco Alpert wrote:
>> Totally safe for work (sorry):
>> 
>> http://www.alpert.com/marco/photo16/peso38.html
>> 
>> Comments, as always, welcomed.
>> 
>> -Marco
>> 
>> ---
>> http://www.alpert.com/marco
>> 


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Re: Pentax 67 pentaprism issue

[Darren Addy]

Not so sure it is fungus. Have you seen the movie "Arrival"?
Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W1m5ER3I1Y

On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Gonz  wrote:
> Its smack in the middle of the view and the bulk of it appears
> black(opaque) when trying to compose a pic.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 12:47 PM, P.J. Alling  
> wrote:
>> It looks like an alien life form, maybe a WotW martian.  Annoying really.
>>
>> On 12/5/2016 8:23 PM, Gonz wrote:
>>>
>>> Fungus?  Can I clean this?  Help!
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/66982297@N02/30640299923/in/dateposted-public/
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> There is not enough Coffee in Columbia to make me a morning person.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: OT? Transfers

[Zos Xavius]

The CD is going to be slower than any drive you connect it to. Don't
worry about rpms. Most externals are 5400 anyways. You'll spend a
premium to get a 7200rpm drive that is external and it won't really
gain you much in transfer speed though your random seek times will
improve. Something that doesn't matter when transferring large files
really.

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 11:09 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> thanks, never thought to look at rpm's
>
> Dave
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist  
> wrote:
>> Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive. Make sure 
>> it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At least 
>> in my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb drives that 
>> I’ve gotten at press conferences.
>> Paul
>>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>>>
>>> I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
>>> DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
>>> Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
>>> thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
>>> transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
>>> thumb drives.?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> --
>>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>>
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>>> follow the directions.
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> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
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Re: OT? Transfers

[David J Brooks]

thanks, never thought to look at rpm's

Dave

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 10:46 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive. Make sure 
> it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At least 
> in my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb drives that 
> I’ve gotten at press conferences.
> Paul
>> On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>>
>> I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
>> DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
>> Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
>> thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
>> transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
>> thumb drives.?
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> --
>> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
>> www.caughtinmotion.com
>> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
>>
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Re: OT? Transfers

[Paul Stenquist]

Almost certainly better transfer rate to an external skinny drive. Make sure 
it’s a 7200 rpm Seagate. And thumb drives seem to fail frequently. At least in 
my experience, although that’s based on use of recycled thumb drives that I’ve 
gotten at press conferences.
Paul
> On Dec 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
> 
> I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
> DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
> Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
> thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
> transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
> thumb drives.?
> 
> Dave
> 
> -- 
> Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
> www.caughtinmotion.com
> http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
> York Region, Ontario, Canada
> 
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OT? Transfers

[David J Brooks]

I have decided, now that i have the time, to transfer all of my CD and
DVD back up photo disks to an external HD, I need a new one anyway and
Staples has a nice Seagate 2tb on sale. I also have a number of 32 gig
thumb drives i thought might also do the trick. Just curious would the
transfer rate be better from the CD player to externals as opposed to
thumb drives.?

Dave

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http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: PESO - 'On the Dew Line'

[Jack Davis]

Well composed as expected.

J

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 7, 2016, at 11:24 PM, Malcolm Smith  wrote:
> 
> Ken Waller wrote:
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=18319419
> 
> 
> I can imagine this as a very large print. Like a lot.
> 
> Malcolm
> 
> 
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