Re: Another Gmail annoyance

[Alan C]

I thought you were trying to put Pop-i  on the Map.

Alan C

On 31-Dec-19 06:27 AM, P. J. Alling wrote:

I'm not an expert, maybe I've just been unlucky.

On 12/30/2019 9:11 PM, Larry Colen wrote:


On Dec 30, 2019, at 3:12 PM, P. J. Alling 
 wrote:


I don't want to use imap because it appears to replicate gmail's on 
line structure in any local client that understands it.


The whole point of using pop, for me at least, is that I control 
what I see in my inbox.
That’s really odd, because I don’t have those issues with my iMap 
mail clients.  I do miss being able to run my own procmailrc file and 
being able to do my own crazy levels of filtering and putting email 
directly into different folder.. Hopefully Don will get our own mail 
server back up before too long. I do know that in theory I can set up 
a better .procmailrc file on sonic, I just haven’t gotten around to it.







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Lightroom lens correction etc.

[Larry Colen]

I was photographing a friend’s new car today and learned a couple of things.

1) Lightroom (at least LR6) does not have a lens profile for the 15-30, though 
they do have one for the 28-105 that came out at the same time. They do have a 
profile for two versions of the Tamron 15-30/2.8.

2) This will come as no surpise to Paul, but until now I had not realized that 
if you are photographing a car with a very wide lens (like 15mm) unless the 
wheels are close to the center axis of the frame, they will be distorted.  


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Re: Another Gmail annoyance

[P. J. Alling]

I'm not an expert, maybe I've just been unlucky.

On 12/30/2019 9:11 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



On Dec 30, 2019, at 3:12 PM, P. J. Alling  wrote:

I don't want to use imap because it appears to replicate gmail's on line 
structure in any local client that understands it.

The whole point of using pop, for me at least, is that I control what I see in 
my inbox.

That’s really odd, because I don’t have those issues with my iMap mail clients. 
 I do miss being able to run my own procmailrc file and being able to do my own 
crazy levels of filtering and putting email directly into different folder..  
Hopefully Don will get our own mail server back up before too long. I do know 
that in theory I can set up a better .procmailrc file on sonic, I just haven’t 
gotten around to it.




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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Alan C]

I've read this thread with interest & I can say that fortunately I have 
never felt "held to ransom".


Elements 13 (ACR 9.0) still does an excellent job for me. By first 
running the DNG image files through the Adobe DNG converter which 
includes all the cameras & lenses post PSE13, the EXIF is brought up to 
date.


Then I have DXO Optics Pro 11 (which was a freebie) on the side. It 
contains a great suite of presets.


BTW, I haven't seen any mention of DXO offerings yet?

Alan C

On 30-Dec-19 08:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote:



On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:

Silly old me wrote:


And then IT happened. PR crashed.

And yet again...

Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
changes made to that picture were gone.

Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice 
letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.

One weird thing is that while I don’t remember if Lightroom *ever* crashed on 
me before, it may have a time or two, it crashed reliably the past few days 
when I’d press the import button. It seemed to happen when PR was running, 
though it might have been the flickr uploadr.



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Re: OT: OCD

[Alan C]

Similar in SA. The 1, 2 & 5 cent coins are no longer used.

When we were on holiday in Mauritius some years ago, there was a nearby 
corner-cafe where drinks were so much cheaper than those in the resort 
room mini-bar. They gave boxes of matches as change for anything less 
than a half-rupee!


Alan C

On 30-Dec-19 11:44 PM, Ralf R Radermacher wrote:

Am 30.12.19 um 22:11 schrieb John:

Took all my collected change from 2019 to the credit union to cash in
today.

Came to $79.99 ... just one penny short of being $80.


I don't know if this is still done, but in my youth Germans would buy
the bride's shoes with 1 and 2 Pfennig coins collected by the whole
tribe over many years.

Belgium has just done away with the monetary chicken food and all shops
now round up or down to the nearest 10 cents. Other euro countries are
thinking about it.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de




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Re: Another Gmail annoyance

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 3:12 PM, P. J. Alling  wrote:
> 
> I don't want to use imap because it appears to replicate gmail's on line 
> structure in any local client that understands it.
> 
> The whole point of using pop, for me at least, is that I control what I see 
> in my inbox.

That’s really odd, because I don’t have those issues with my iMap mail clients. 
 I do miss being able to run my own procmailrc file and being able to do my own 
crazy levels of filtering and putting email directly into different folder..  
Hopefully Don will get our own mail server back up before too long. I do know 
that in theory I can set up a better .procmailrc file on sonic, I just haven’t 
gotten around to it.



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Re: Another Gmail annoyance

[P. J. Alling]

I should add, except when Google doesn't want me to see something.

On 12/30/2019 6:12 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
I don't want to use imap because it appears to replicate gmail's on 
line structure in any local client that understands it.


The whole point of using pop, for me at least, is that I control what 
I see in my inbox.


On 12/30/2019 2:45 AM, Henk Terhell wrote:

What if you would switch from pop to imap server?

Henk

Op 2019-12-30 om 08:12 schreef P. J. Alling:
It's funny.  Half the time when I post a message to Gmail that 
contains a link.  The original message gets into my inbox, I have 
quite the convoluted set of filters and macros, and a second gmail 
account to make that happen. The other half of the time, it gets 
lost in the aether. Sometimes replies to that message get lost too.


In this case something really strange.  I posted a PESO it got to my 
primary inbox but Gmail refuses to let the pop server send it to my 
computer.


It doesn't make it to my secondary account's inbox!  WTF??? (That's 
usually where the mail goes to be copied to my primary PDML inbox.


Now replies to that post aren't getting to either inbox.  Nor are 
they in my spam filters either on gmail's server, nor were they 
caught by Thunderbird's spam filters.


Yet I know that Larry replied because it's in the PDML archive.

I'm really beginning to hate Gmail.





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Re: OT: OCD

[Paul Stenquist]

You can sell the coins as silver without melting them. But if the dates and 
mint marks are legible they might be worth more as coins. Check with a coin 
dealer in the US. You can send him macro pics of the best ones. You might also 
consult online pricing guides.

Paul

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 6:50 PM, William R  wrote:
> 
> I've got a pile of American silver dollars from the 1920s and 30s. I'm
> trying to decide if I should melt them down and sell the silver or sell
> them as rather worn coins.
> 
>> On Mon, 30 Dec 2019, 3:12 pm John,  wrote:
>> 
>> Took all my collected change from 2019 to the credit union to cash in
>> today.
>> 
>> Came to $79.99 ... just one penny short of being $80.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
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>> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>> 
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Re: OT - Just when I thought 2019 couldn't get any worse: RIP Neil Innes

[William R]

Noo

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019, 3:50 pm Postmaster,  wrote:

> https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/dec/30/neil-innes-obituary
>
> Perhaps a couple of others here besides Mike Wilson will know about
> the creative genius behind the Bonzo Dog Band, the Rutles and a lot of
> Money Python songs.
>
>
> --
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: OT: OCD

[William R]

I've got a pile of American silver dollars from the 1920s and 30s. I'm
trying to decide if I should melt them down and sell the silver or sell
them as rather worn coins.

On Mon, 30 Dec 2019, 3:12 pm John,  wrote:

> Took all my collected change from 2019 to the credit union to cash in
> today.
>
> Came to $79.99 ... just one penny short of being $80.
>
>
>
> --
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> Religion - Answers we must never question.
>
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Re: OT - Just when I thought 2019 couldn't get any worse: RIP Neil Innes

[Bob Pdml]

Yes, he was great. Watching The Rutles when it first appeared on TV was almost 
as exciting as listening to the Beatles' singles when they were first released. 
Perfect pastiche.

> On 30 Dec 2019, at 21:49, Postmaster  wrote:
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/dec/30/neil-innes-obituary
> 
> Perhaps a couple of others here besides Mike Wilson will know about
> the creative genius behind the Bonzo Dog Band, the Rutles and a lot of
> Money Python songs.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
> www.robertstech.com
> 

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Re: OT - Just when I thought 2019 couldn't get any worse: RIP Neil Innes

[P. J. Alling]

Unfortunately it can always get worse, even after it's over, it can get 
worse.


On 12/30/2019 4:49 PM, Postmaster wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/dec/30/neil-innes-obituary

Perhaps a couple of others here besides Mike Wilson will know about
the creative genius behind the Bonzo Dog Band, the Rutles and a lot of
Money Python songs.

  


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Re: Another Gmail annoyance

[P. J. Alling]

I don't want to use imap because it appears to replicate gmail's on line 
structure in any local client that understands it.


The whole point of using pop, for me at least, is that I control what I 
see in my inbox.


On 12/30/2019 2:45 AM, Henk Terhell wrote:

What if you would switch from pop to imap server?

Henk

Op 2019-12-30 om 08:12 schreef P. J. Alling:
It's funny.  Half the time when I post a message to Gmail that 
contains a link.  The original message gets into my inbox, I have 
quite the convoluted set of filters and macros, and a second gmail 
account to make that happen.  The other half of the time, it gets 
lost in the aether.   Sometimes replies to that message get lost too.


In this case something really strange.  I posted a PESO it got to my 
primary inbox but Gmail refuses to let the pop server send it to my 
computer.


It doesn't make it to my secondary account's inbox!  WTF??? (That's 
usually where the mail goes to be copied to my primary PDML inbox.


Now replies to that post aren't getting to either inbox.  Nor are 
they in my spam filters either on gmail's server, nor were they 
caught by Thunderbird's spam filters.


Yet I know that Larry replied because it's in the PDML archive.

I'm really beginning to hate Gmail.





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OT - Just when I thought 2019 couldn't get any worse: RIP Neil Innes

[Postmaster]

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/dec/30/neil-innes-obituary

Perhaps a couple of others here besides Mike Wilson will know about
the creative genius behind the Bonzo Dog Band, the Rutles and a lot of
Money Python songs.

 
-- 
Mark Roberts - Photography & Multimedia
www.robertstech.com





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Re: OT: OCD

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 30.12.19 um 22:11 schrieb John:

Took all my collected change from 2019 to the credit union to cash in
today.

Came to $79.99 ... just one penny short of being $80.


I don't know if this is still done, but in my youth Germans would buy
the bride's shoes with 1 and 2 Pfennig coins collected by the whole
tribe over many years.

Belgium has just done away with the monetary chicken food and all shops
now round up or down to the nearest 10 cents. Other euro countries are
thinking about it.

Ralf

--
Ralf R. Radermacher  -  Köln/Cologne, Germany
Blog  : http://the-real-fotoralf.blogspot.com
Audio : http://aporee.org/maps/projects/fotoralf
Web   : http://www.fotoralf.de

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Re: comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[Paul Stenquist]

Or a fungus among us.

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 4:14 PM, John  wrote:
> 
> For all I know, it could be a Festivus pole.
> 
> On 12/30/2019 14:13:34, Larry Colen wrote:
 On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Amazing! That looks exactly like a Christmas tree!
>> Yes, but the owner grew up in Ukraine where (especially during the soviet 
>> era) they didn’t celebrate Christmas, but did celebrate the new year, and 
>> would decorate trees and everything, so for her it is a new year’s tree.
>>> 
 On Dec 29, 2019, at 1:36 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
 
 I took some bracketed photos of a “new year’s tree”, I figured the dynamic 
 range from glowing lights to ornaments in an otherwise dim room would give 
 HDR a reasonable work out.
 
 Here are the hdrs processed in Lightroom 6
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407455041
 
 Here they are processed in On1
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407573666
 
 I think that On1 has a slight edge.
 
 Unfortunately I don’t have access to any of my astro landscape raw source 
 files for comparison.
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>>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[John]

For all I know, it could be a Festivus pole.

On 12/30/2019 14:13:34, Larry Colen wrote:




On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:

Amazing! That looks exactly like a Christmas tree!


Yes, but the owner grew up in Ukraine where (especially during the soviet era) 
they didn’t celebrate Christmas, but did celebrate the new year, and would 
decorate trees and everything, so for her it is a new year’s tree.





On Dec 29, 2019, at 1:36 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:

I took some bracketed photos of a “new year’s tree”, I figured the dynamic 
range from glowing lights to ornaments in an otherwise dim room would give HDR 
a reasonable work out.

Here are the hdrs processed in Lightroom 6
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407455041

Here they are processed in On1
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407573666

I think that On1 has a slight edge.

Unfortunately I don’t have access to any of my astro landscape raw source files 
for comparison.
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OT: OCD

[John]

Took all my collected change from 2019 to the credit union to cash in today.

Came to $79.99 ... just one penny short of being $80.



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Re: comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[Paul Stenquist]

Just looking at the humorous side of it, Larry. 

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 2:50 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> 
>> I understand. But It struck me as yet another humorous example of PC 
>> culture. I suppose we could rename the menorah “New Year’s Candelabra.” :-)
> 
> Except that even non-practicing people of Jewish descent in the Soviet Union 
> were persecuted, so anybody lighting a menorah in the Soviet Union was doing 
> it in an act of religious civil defiance.  
> 
> I can assure you that for a Soviet era Ukrainian of Jewish descent, it is not 
> a Christmas tree and calling it a New Year’s tree is a statement of fact and 
> not an act of political correctness. If I have my details correct, they are 
> normally put up between the “new new year” (Jan 1) and the “old new year” 
> (Jan 15)  If she had been able to obtain one after Christmas it would have 
> been a lot easier for her to do so.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 11:32 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> 
> I understand. But It struck me as yet another humorous example of PC culture. 
> I suppose we could rename the menorah “New Year’s Candelabra.” :-)

Except that even non-practicing people of Jewish descent in the Soviet Union 
were persecuted, so anybody lighting a menorah in the Soviet Union was doing it 
in an act of religious civil defiance.  

I can assure you that for a Soviet era Ukrainian of Jewish descent, it is not a 
Christmas tree and calling it a New Year’s tree is a statement of fact and not 
an act of political correctness. If I have my details correct, they are 
normally put up between the “new new year” (Jan 1) and the “old new year” (Jan 
15)  If she had been able to obtain one after Christmas it would have been a 
lot easier for her to do so.



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Re: PESO -- We want moai Christmas.

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Neat object, nice image.

Dan Matyola
*https://tinyurl.com/DJM-Pentax-Gallery
*



On Mon, Dec 30, 2019 at 5:46 AM P. J. Alling 
wrote:

> I posted a photo of this imitation moia a few years ago, this year
> he/she/whatever seems to be getting into the spirit of the season.
>
> I've obfuscated the address with tinyurl because Google may still think
> my web host is "dangerious" and when you click through you might get a
> scary message about phishing etc.  The HTML is extremely simple and does
> nothing of the kind.
>
> https://tinyurl.com/u9non9o
>
> Equipment: Pentax K5II w/Sigma DC 17-70mm f2.8~4.5
>
> As usual comments are welcome but may be totally ignored.
>
> --
> Any idiot can shoot with a Canon, Nikon, or Sony, it takes a special kind
> of idiot to use a Pentax.
>
>
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Re: comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[Paul Stenquist]

I understand. But It struck me as yet another humorous example of PC culture. I 
suppose we could rename the menorah “New Year’s Candelabra.” :-)

Paul

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 2:14 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
>> 
>> Amazing! That looks exactly like a Christmas tree!
> 
> Yes, but the owner grew up in Ukraine where (especially during the soviet 
> era) they didn’t celebrate Christmas, but did celebrate the new year, and 
> would decorate trees and everything, so for her it is a new year’s tree.
> 
> 
>> 
 On Dec 29, 2019, at 1:36 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I took some bracketed photos of a “new year’s tree”, I figured the dynamic 
>>> range from glowing lights to ornaments in an otherwise dim room would give 
>>> HDR a reasonable work out.
>>> 
>>> Here are the hdrs processed in Lightroom 6
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407455041
>>> 
>>> Here they are processed in On1
>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407573666
>>> 
>>> I think that On1 has a slight edge.
>>> 
>>> Unfortunately I don’t have access to any of my astro landscape raw source 
>>> files for comparison.
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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:19 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
>> 
>> Silly old me wrote:
>> 
>>> And then IT happened. PR crashed.
>> 
>> And yet again...
>> 
>> Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
>> Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
>> changes made to that picture were gone.
>> 
>> Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
>> really, it looked so promising at he beginning.
> 
> It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice 
> letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.
> 

I decided to write a letter, I didn’t put the effort into going into a lot of 
detail unless they really want it, but this is what I wrote.  I really do hope 
that they do soon come up with something I can use to replace LR.

My background is that I'm a software developer (mostly embedded systems and 
security) who has enjoyed photography since I was 12 (1973). In late 2007 I 
bought a DSLR and have been doing it seriously (intermittent pro jobs, but 
mostly hobby) since then.  
I started using Lightroom on a mac in the early days of lightroom and did every 
upgrade through LR6, but have so far refused to switch to their ransomware 
business model. I've been looking for a replacement since.
The two at the top of my candidate list have been On1 and darktable.  I'm on an 
online discussion group for people who shoot with Pentax gear and one of the 
members posted that he was switching from LR to PR and another member said 
"welcome to the club".
PR2020 seemed nearly perfect, the one downside is that it won't run on Linux, 
I'd much rather ditch Apple as well since they won't build hardware I want that 
is remotely within my budget.
I spent the past few days trying PR2020 on my travel machine (MBP laptop 
running high sierra).
The migration from LR nearly worked, it did get the exif data, keywords and 
such, but only some of the editing information came over cleanly.  Mind you, 
there are only a couple thousand images on my travel machine, rather than 
almost 700,000 on my "everything" lightroom catalog.
At first I figured that I'd be fine just leaving that be, and only re-editing 
photos as the need arose.
The first major issue that I ran into is easily editing a bunch of photos at a 
time.  I tend to bracket my photos, want to sort out the under, nominal and 
over, and apply corrections to groups. Bump the exposure up and down a couple 
of stops, adjust highlights, or color balance.  Easy to do in lightroom's grid 
view, rather awkward in PR. 
I finally got to the point that I decided I could still use LR for their 
digital asset management, and use PR2020 for "final polish" photo editing. 
There are several things that PR2020 does that LR doesn't.  Two areas where I'm 
a bit disappointed in LRs performance are panoramas and HDR, primarily 
panoramas, in particular night time astro landscape panoramas.  
I don't have access to my astro-landscape pano raw frames, and it's tough to 
get clear skies in Oregon during December.  I did some daytime and sunset panos 
to test that out, and I'm afraid that PR2020 completely fell over on the 
panoramas.  I could send you links to jpegs if you want.
In the end, I've decided that as much as I would like to switch away from LR6, 
PR2020 just isn't quite ready.  
As I said, I do this professionally, if you want I could send you more detailed 
information and suggestions.  One big lack is beyond the migration tool, 
specific *written* instructions on how to do things in PR2020, and what you 
can't do, if you are used to doing them in LR, as well as how to do the cool 
things PR2020 will do that LR won't.
And for what it's worth, the damn snowflakes on your website were so annoying 
that if I wasn't so desperate to switch from Lightroom, I would have given up 
entirely rather than put up with them.
And, it turns out that after PR2020 crashed, twice, on my friend, he has 
decided not to make the switch either.  



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Re: comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 10:51 AM, Paul Stenquist  wrote:
> 
> Amazing! That looks exactly like a Christmas tree!

Yes, but the owner grew up in Ukraine where (especially during the soviet era) 
they didn’t celebrate Christmas, but did celebrate the new year, and would 
decorate trees and everything, so for her it is a new year’s tree.


> 
>> On Dec 29, 2019, at 1:36 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>> 
>> I took some bracketed photos of a “new year’s tree”, I figured the dynamic 
>> range from glowing lights to ornaments in an otherwise dim room would give 
>> HDR a reasonable work out.
>> 
>> Here are the hdrs processed in Lightroom 6
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407455041
>> 
>> Here they are processed in On1
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407573666
>> 
>> I think that On1 has a slight edge.
>> 
>> Unfortunately I don’t have access to any of my astro landscape raw source 
>> files for comparison.
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>> follow the directions.
> 
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Re: comparing lightroom and On1 HDR

[Paul Stenquist]

Amazing! That looks exactly like a Christmas tree!

> On Dec 29, 2019, at 1:36 AM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> I took some bracketed photos of a “new year’s tree”, I figured the dynamic 
> range from glowing lights to ornaments in an otherwise dim room would give 
> HDR a reasonable work out.
> 
> Here are the hdrs processed in Lightroom 6
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407455041
> 
> Here they are processed in On1
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/albums/72157712407573666
> 
> I think that On1 has a slight edge.
> 
> Unfortunately I don’t have access to any of my astro landscape raw source 
> files for comparison.
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> the directions.


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Re: One last Thunderbird Test

[Bob Pdml]

> On 30 Dec 2019, at 17:11, Donald Guthrie  wrote:
> 
> No reply needed
> 
> 
F.A.B.

https://youtu.be/vjGtkz-Ma0U


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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> Silly old me wrote:
> 
>> And then IT happened. PR crashed.
> 
> And yet again...
> 
> Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
> Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
> changes made to that picture were gone.
> 
> Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
> really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

It might be helpful if those of us who nearly bought On1 wrote them nice 
letters telling them why we wanted to buy it, and why it didn’t work for us.

One weird thing is that while I don’t remember if Lightroom *ever* crashed on 
me before, it may have a time or two, it crashed reliably the past few days 
when I’d press the import button. It seemed to happen when PR was running, 
though it might have been the flickr uploadr.  
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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Larry Colen]

> On Dec 30, 2019, at 2:51 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> 
> 
> I've re-activated my old LR6 for the time being. The only thing that
> irritates me is that in its start-up screen LR6 now shows as "Creative
> Cloud Lightroom CC 2015.6.1" and I'm more than a little concerned about
> what will happen once my CC subscription runs out at the end of February.

You have to give it the LR6 serial number for it to work as LR6.



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One last Thunderbird Test

[Donald Guthrie]

No reply needed

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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I too felt ON1 had a really nice product on first glance, and I do like some of 
its capabilities. But it isn't what I was looking for. 

G


> On Dec 30, 2019, at 7:04 AM, Ralf R Radermacher  wrote:
> ...
> Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
> really, it looked so promising at he beginning.


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Re: Free at last!

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

>  On Dec 29, 2019, at 3:56 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 6:44 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I started a thread on this topic on their community support board:
>>> 
>>> https://on1help.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360055861911-Switching-from-lightroom
>>> 
>>> I’ve run into another issue with Photo RAW, setting the white balance of a 
>>> group of photos based on a greycard.  
>> 
>> There are simply so many things that are far far easier to get done quickly 
>> and efficiently with Lightroom than with Photo RAW , I gave up on On1 
>> Photo RAW  as a suitable replacement. I worked at it pretty seriously 
>> for three weeks, after dabbling about with it for most of the past year, and 
>> came away unimpressed. 
>> 
>> No software should be that difficult to figure out and use efficiently. :)
> 
> I understand, that’s why I gave up on photoshop.
> 
> I’m coming to the conclusion that LR and PR have different primary and 
> secondary goals.  LR is much better at processing a lot of photos. PR has 
> some features (like layers) that are better for individual photos which LR 
> lacks.  If I pull the trigger on PR, my workflow will likely be to continue 
> to use LR on my first pass, and then when I have specific, challenging, 
> photos that I really want to put a lot of effort into, the layers and masks 
> of PR will make that job easier.

Without the DAM capabilities that LR has (and Photos, and Aperture, etc), all 
image processing apps are akin to a Photoshop at some level or another. PR's 
biggest advantage over Photoshop and Affinity Photo is that it is a 
parameter-based editing solution rather than a bit basher and leaves the 
original files untouched (although PS can do similarly when using Layers), so 
you always have access to the original files to re-start a rendering without 
having to go to backup files. 

The combination of LR and PS is powerful for precisely the reason you state: PS 
gives you extraordinary capability for the moments you need it, LR manages and 
handles large volumes of images, even on disconnected/offline volumes while 
providing enough rendering capability to do the job in a majority of cases. PR 
works best as an adjunct to Lightroom, IMO, for these same reasons. 

If the goal is to remove The Evil Empire from your workflow, the search for a 
useful alternative to Lightroom goes on. :)

My goal is to get my photography done the most sensible way possible while 
minimizing my dependence on Adobe's business policies.

G
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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Silly old me wrote:


And then IT happened. PR crashed.


And yet again...

Second time in less than a day vs. never in almost 10 years with
Lightroom. Took half an hour's work with it as on the next start all
changes made to that picture were gone.

Sorry, ON1, but I don't shell out my shekels for beta software. Pity,
really, it looked so promising at he beginning.

Ralf

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RE: Free at last!

[pdmlbw]

> -Original Message-
> From: PDML  On Behalf Of mike wilson
> Sent: 30 December 2019 10:51
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: Free at last!
> 
> > On 30 December 2019 at 06:17 Larry Colen  wrote:
> > Mind you, what I wish I could do is just aim my photo editing software at a
> directory, have it auto detect the bracketed frames it can make HDRs out of
> and just do it in the background.  Similarly, it could be nice if it could do 
> the
> same with with panoramas, though that’s a bit trickier, it would have to map
> out which images fit over other ones (maybe using the accelerometer data,
> and possibly compass and gps as clues).
> >
> 
> A simple cure for that is to magine how easy it would be with chemical
> processing.
> 

If you ingest the right chemicals you can imagine anything.



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Re: Free at last! - or maybe not quite...

[Ralf R Radermacher]

Am 29.12.19 um 03:44 schrieb Godfrey DiGiorgi:


There are simply so many things that are far far easier to get done quickly and 
efficiently with Lightroom than with Photo RAW , I gave up on On1 Photo RAW 
 as a suitable replacement. I worked at it pretty seriously for three 
weeks, after dabbling about with it for most of the past year, and came away 
unimpressed.


I've been playing with ON1 Photo Raw some more, and it looks like I'll
let their great holiday offer go, bearing in mind that they've been
bombarding me per email with great offers for months on end. There will
certainly be another one in a week or two.

I've compared the results of the image export in Lightroom 6 (LR) and
ON1 Photo Raw 2020 (PR). In one example, I ended up with an export file
from LR where the license plate of a car in the picture was clearly
readable and totally unreadable in the file from PR. Overall,

There is very little control of the sharperning in PR's export module
and the settings ("Amazing Detail Finder" vs. "Fix Focus" or "Print
Glossy Portrait") are mysterious at best. Selecting "Screen" in PR, my
usual setting in LR for things I intend to blog or show on
Fotocommunity, gives a sharpening result I've last seen on the Amiga,
some 25 years ago: blurry with over-accentuated edges... horrible bokeh,
if you get the idea.

And then IT happened. PR crashed. Right in the middle of straightening a
photo. Never ever had a single crash with LR in all those years.

I've re-activated my old LR6 for the time being. The only thing that
irritates me is that in its start-up screen LR6 now shows as "Creative
Cloud Lightroom CC 2015.6.1" and I'm more than a little concerned about
what will happen once my CC subscription runs out at the end of February.

Ralf

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Re: Free at last!

[mike wilson]

> On 30 December 2019 at 06:17 Larry Colen  wrote:
> Mind you, what I wish I could do is just aim my photo editing software at a 
> directory, have it auto detect the bracketed frames it can make HDRs out of 
> and just do it in the background.  Similarly, it could be nice if it could do 
> the same with with panoramas, though that’s a bit trickier, it would have to 
> map out which images fit over other ones (maybe using the accelerometer data, 
> and possibly compass and gps as clues).
> 

A simple cure for that is to magine how easy it would be with chemical 
processing.

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