Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
On 7/12/2012 8:49 AM, Matthew Hunt wrote: On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote: If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor associated hardware/software, what does setting the color space on the camera do? It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg. That is correct. Does it affect the JPEG preview inside the raw files? Yes, it also provides hints for any RAW conversion software that is aware of the original camera settings. I've been using Pentax Camera Utility 4 and every raw file I open reflects camera settings as the default. I think lightroom does the same thing, maybe others as well. -- Don't lose heart, they might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a lengthly search. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
On Jul 13, 2012, at 4:12 AM, George Sinos wrote: There's a lot of over-thinking going on in this thread. Most of it is technically correct and practically insignificant. Mark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
Those people would never be my clients. I'd rather pound sod. ;-) On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote: I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment about the commercial practice of early Renaissance painting. You should think yourselves lucky your clients don't specify that you grind the colours yourself and use ultramarine at 2 florins the ounce on the Virgin's cloak, and ultramarine at one florin the ounce on the rest of the picture, and definitely none of that cheap German blue. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
From: Postmaster Larry Colen wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? Nope. You're quite correct. Raw files are in the device-determined color space of the sensor (and, theoretically, associated hardware/software). If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor associated hardware/software, what does setting the color space on the camera do? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg. stan On Jul 12, 2012, at 8:25 AM, John Sessoms wrote: From: Postmaster Larry Colen wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? Nope. You're quite correct. Raw files are in the device-determined color space of the sensor (and, theoretically, associated hardware/software). If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor associated hardware/software, what does setting the color space on the camera do? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
Stan Halpin wrote: On Jul 12, 2012, at 8:25 AM, John Sessoms wrote: From: Postmaster Larry Colen wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? Nope. You're quite correct. Raw files are in the device-determined color space of the sensor (and, theoretically, associated hardware/software). If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor associated hardware/software, what does setting the color space on the camera do? It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg. That is correct. -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote: If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor associated hardware/software, what does setting the color space on the camera do? It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg. That is correct. Does it affect the JPEG preview inside the raw files? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor associated hardware/software, what does setting the color space on the camera do? It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg. That is correct. Indeed. However... theoretically, there have been sporadic reports that the white balance setting actually affects gain adjustments to channels pre-ADC on various camera models, including some Pentax ones (amongst others). If this is indeed true, then this implies that the white balance setting can affect can cause changes to raw captured data. I imagine Auto WB would not do this, only specific settings, but I'm not really sure what was found to be the case. Anyway, not something I've ever really bothered about personally, but the implication is that on certain camera models, in certain WB settings and shooting situations, you may be able to get better captured RAW results with specific WB settings. But without anything concrete, it's more or less guesswork. Bottom line: shoot RAW, ignore WB, take photos :) - Peter -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
From: Peter Loveday If the color space for RAW is determined by the sensor associated hardware/software, what does setting the color space on the camera do? It probably affects the in-camera translation to jpeg. That is correct. Indeed. However... theoretically, there have been sporadic reports that the white balance setting actually affects gain adjustments to channels pre-ADC on various camera models, including some Pentax ones (amongst others). If this is indeed true, then this implies that the white balance setting can affect can cause changes to raw captured data. I imagine Auto WB would not do this, only specific settings, but I'm not really sure what was found to be the case. Anyway, not something I've ever really bothered about personally, but the implication is that on certain camera models, in certain WB settings and shooting situations, you may be able to get better captured RAW results with specific WB settings. But without anything concrete, it's more or less guesswork. Bottom line: shoot RAW, ignore WB, take photos :) AWB changes the WB every time you move the camera. Every frame requires a different correction. I just set it on daylight so it's consistently wrong by the same amount for every frame. That way I can batch process the corrections. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:07 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: AWB changes the WB every time you move the camera. Every frame requires a different correction. I just set it on daylight so it's consistently wrong by the same amount for every frame. That way I can batch process the corrections. In Lightroom, once you determine the correct WB for one image, you can apply the same WB to every other image. It doesn't matter what WB the Auto WB picked for the other images. (In other words, applying the WB sets the WB in an absolute sense--not as a relative adjustment to the as-shot WB.) I would think ACR works the same way, but I don't know. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of whatever format. What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera settings when it comes to raw capture. On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of whatever format. What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera settings when it comes to raw capture. You're probably right Godfrey, but there's no guarantee that the they in this case aren't *among* those who are confused about the camera settings when it comes to raw capture! They may really be asking for what they say, unaware that it's impossible. Believe me, I've been down that road. ;-) -- Mark Roberts - Photography Multimedia www.robertstech.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:31 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of whatever format. Are you saying it does, or does not, affect the data in the raw file? What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera settings when it comes to raw capture. At this point, I certainly am. On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
Larry - For your purposes, it will not effect the raw data in the image. It will effect the embedded jpg preview image that you see on the camera LCD screen. So any histogram you see on the back of the camera will also be effected because it is generated from the embedded jpeg. For all practical purposes it won't make any difference. You can generate jpgs later in any color space you want. They will all be generated from the original unaffected raw data. I doubt that the screen on the back of your camera is good enough to show any significant differences between the color spaces. So, if you use the histogram to make exposure adjustments, theoretically, there may be a tiny difference in the feedback it gives you. If you're submitting raw files - set the camera color space to adobeRGB so the are tagged correctly. If you're submitting jpgs, the camera setting won't make any practical difference. Just make sure when you generate the jpgs, set ACR or Lightroom or whatever you use for AdobeRGB. There's a lot of over-thinking going on in this thread. Most of it is technically correct and practically insignificant. gs George Sinos gsi...@gmail.com www.georgesphotos.net plus.georgesinos.com On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 10:48 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: On Jul 12, 2012, at 7:31 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: Colorspace is a parameter used in the chroma interpolation phase of the raw conversion process, on the way to an RGB channel file of whatever format. Are you saying it does, or does not, affect the data in the raw file? What they're telling you is that they want the deliverables produced with Adobe RGB profile. Most people are confused about the camera settings when it comes to raw capture. At this point, I certainly am. On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
That's why I spend time to get clients to agree on what the *deliverables* will be, rather than how I achieve producing those deliverables. No client tells me how to set my camera, if they insist, I refuse the contract. On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote: You're probably right Godfrey, but there's no guarantee that the they in this case aren't *among* those who are confused about the camera settings when it comes to raw capture! They may really be asking for what they say, unaware that it's impossible. Believe me, I've been down that road. ;-) Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com Announcing Ways Together .. my new photo book! See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto Come to the reception and book-signing: ModernBook Gallery 49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:48 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: Are you saying it does, or does not, affect the data in the raw file? Raw files contains sensor data, metadata describing camera settings and image attributes, and optionally a JPEG preview. Colorspace profile settings affect the specifics in the metadata and the rendering of a JPEG preview. They do not affect the contents of the sensor data. The only raw processors which honor the camera settings like colorspace in raw file metadata are the ones provided by the camera manufacturer. Lightroom and Camera Raw do not. Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com Announcing Ways Together .. my new photo book! See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto Come to the reception and book-signing: ModernBook Gallery 49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
I'm reading a very interesting book at the moment about the commercial practice of early Renaissance painting. You should think yourselves lucky your clients don't specify that you grind the colours yourself and use ultramarine at 2 florins the ounce on the Virgin's cloak, and ultramarine at one florin the ounce on the rest of the picture, and definitely none of that cheap German blue. B From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of Godfrey DiGiorgi That's why I spend time to get clients to agree on what the *deliverables* will be, rather than how I achieve producing those deliverables. No client tells me how to set my camera, if they insist, I refuse the contract. On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 8:21 AM, Mark Roberts postmas...@robertstech.com wrote: You're probably right Godfrey, but there's no guarantee that the they in this case aren't *among* those who are confused about the camera settings when it comes to raw capture! They may really be asking for what they say, unaware that it's impossible. Believe me, I've been down that road. ;-) Godfrey - godfreydigio...@me.com Announcing Ways Together .. my new photo book! See it on Blurb at http://www.blurb.com/user/GDGPhoto Come to the reception and book-signing: ModernBook Gallery 49 Geary Ave, San Francisco, CA August 2nd, 5:30-7:30 pm -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
Hi Larry. There's no color space in a raw file. You select the color space when you turn it into a jpeg. That's another reason to shoot raw files. You can make sRGB for the web and consumer prints, adobeRGB for better ink jet printers, and ProPhoto RGB for imaginary devices that may exist in the future. :-) gs George Sinos gsi...@gmail.com www.georgesphotos.net plus.georgesinos.com On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 1:33 PM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
You can make sRGB for the web and consumer prints, adobeRGB for better ink jet printers, and ProPhoto RGB for imaginary devices that may exist in the future. That was awesome, George. Gotta be in the quotes section of next year's Annual. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
Larry Colen wrote: For an event that I'm shooting, it was just specified we shoot in raw and, adobe RGB. My understanding was that sRGB and adobe RGB only came into play in converting to JPEG, that RAW was just the raw data off the sensor. Am I more confused than usual? Nope. You're quite correct. Raw files are in the device-determined color space of the sensor (and, theoretically, associated hardware/software). -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Do sRGB and adobe RGB make any difference in raw files?
The only difference in size makes whether you chose DNG or PEF. PEF seemed to be slightly smaller than DNG but its not a rule... -- roman.blakout.net K-5 × DA 16-45 × DA* 50-135 × FA 50 × FA 35-70 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
