Re: High ISO noise expectations
The 330 ftz offers the funcion too - don't know if it would work with the K20d. Works good with the Ds. About the noise, I don't think it's a bad performance. Just the price to pay for the high speed attained. No, I don't think these samples are flawed. Back in the film days (last month, for me) the high ISO road meant a second camera, lotsa grain, and often dedicated darkroom (B&W). Larry, I believe you get less noise from a full frame, 12mp camera that costs a lot more than the K20d... but the performance you'd get for the spent dollar probably wouldn't be so interesting. lf Bruce Walker escreveu: Larry Colen wrote: I'm still wrestling with my K20D in high ISO. I'm often severely disappointed with the noise level. Last night, I posted these shots to facebook: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622030236980/ I just got a note from a friend of a friend about them: Eric's friend Joe here. Hey, saw the pics you posted, very nice! The lighting was really nice, was it just natural light or fill-flash? It was very nice lighting, but I wondered if if was off-camera flash. Maybe high ISO, but they didn't look noisy. Just wanted to say nice pics! So, it's interesting that a Canon user thinks that my ISO 1600-3200 shots are done with a flash because they aren't very noisy. Then again, I'm not posting the ones that look like crap. I think you are being overly picky, actually. The noise level in those shots is not bad at all, and is about what I would expect to get. The noise artifacts you are seeing in your shots could be very easily improved by post-processing with a noise-reduction plugin. I like and use Imagenomic Noiseware which can be plugged-in to Lightroom, Photoshop (including Elements) and Aperture (I believe). The secret to using the NR plugins is to use them very sparingly or they kill detail. I set Noiseware to something like 0-10% for highlights, 20-30% for mids and 80-100% for shadows. Shadow and black areas is usually where noise is most evident and detail is the least important. I'd be willing to bet that you could even get pretty good results with the built-in NR in Adobe Camera Raw, at least the implementation in CS4. I've been using that lately, without PP with Noiseware, and I get good results, although I'm not generally straying above ISO 1600. I'm finding that manual focus is working a lot better for me than autofocus in low light dance photography, but that sometimes I'll just totally blow the focus. I think that it is because I'm using the red focus alerts as an aid, and sometimes they get confused. Do you have a 360FGZ or 540FGZ? Try attaching the flash and setting it to do AF focus-assist *only* (ie no flash). -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Luiz Felipe luiz.felipe at techmit.com.br http://techmit.com.br/luizfelipe/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: High ISO noise expectations
Larry Colen wrote: I'm still wrestling with my K20D in high ISO. I'm often severely disappointed with the noise level. Last night, I posted these shots to facebook: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622030236980/ I just got a note from a friend of a friend about them: Eric's friend Joe here. Hey, saw the pics you posted, very nice! The lighting was really nice, was it just natural light or fill-flash? It was very nice lighting, but I wondered if if was off-camera flash. Maybe high ISO, but they didn't look noisy. Just wanted to say nice pics! So, it's interesting that a Canon user thinks that my ISO 1600-3200 shots are done with a flash because they aren't very noisy. Then again, I'm not posting the ones that look like crap. I think you are being overly picky, actually. The noise level in those shots is not bad at all, and is about what I would expect to get. The noise artifacts you are seeing in your shots could be very easily improved by post-processing with a noise-reduction plugin. I like and use Imagenomic Noiseware which can be plugged-in to Lightroom, Photoshop (including Elements) and Aperture (I believe). The secret to using the NR plugins is to use them very sparingly or they kill detail. I set Noiseware to something like 0-10% for highlights, 20-30% for mids and 80-100% for shadows. Shadow and black areas is usually where noise is most evident and detail is the least important. I'd be willing to bet that you could even get pretty good results with the built-in NR in Adobe Camera Raw, at least the implementation in CS4. I've been using that lately, without PP with Noiseware, and I get good results, although I'm not generally straying above ISO 1600. I'm finding that manual focus is working a lot better for me than autofocus in low light dance photography, but that sometimes I'll just totally blow the focus. I think that it is because I'm using the red focus alerts as an aid, and sometimes they get confused. Do you have a 360FGZ or 540FGZ? Try attaching the flash and setting it to do AF focus-assist *only* (ie no flash). -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: High ISO noise expectations
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 12:57:22PM -0700, Rick Womer wrote: > --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Larry Colen wrote: > > > tune the focus by hand. I suppose I can get used to using > > the focus > > mode switch by the lens. > > What lens are you using? The Pentax lenses for the past few years have > allowed manual touch-up of focus without releasing anything. For low light, FA31/1.8 and FA50/1.4. > > have to > > make sure that it is locking on the right thing. > > The AF sensors are =much= larger than the little red squares. The central > one, for example, is the size of the circle in the center of the finder. That would explain a bit. -- The first step is learning to take great photos, the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: High ISO noise expectations
2009/8/13 Larry Colen : > > I brace myself, and prefer to use a monopod. Three legged dancing... :-) First time I really gave high ISO a try was this January, when I went North to photograph eagles. On one day I spent close to 3 hours snapping away at ISO 3200 and 1600 at a cooperative goshawk. I thought they looked awful, until a guy with a Nikon D3x back at the cottage commented that when ever he saw the results from the Pentaxes (his buddy had a K10D) he sometimes wondered if the high-end Nikons were worth the money... :-) Personally I found the high-ISO noise of the K20D to be much easier to deal with than the same from K10D. Of course there's room for improvement, but I think the results from K20D is nothing to be ashamed of. When writing "deal with", I mean removing noise in PP. I use NoiseNinja plugin for PS and it does a very fine job most of the time. Jostein -- http://www.alunfoto.no/galleri/ http://alunfoto.blogspot.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: High ISO noise expectations
http://photo.net/photos/RickW --- On Thu, 8/13/09, Larry Colen wrote: > I wish I could set things up so that it's in manual focus, > but I can > set a button to autofocus, and then release the motor so I > can fine > tune the focus by hand. I suppose I can get used to using > the focus > mode switch by the lens. What lens are you using? The Pentax lenses for the past few years have allowed manual touch-up of focus without releasing anything. > > Even with the katzeye, it's tough in low light manually. I > need to > train myself that when the camera says it has focus lock, I > have to > make sure that it is locking on the right thing. The AF sensors are =much= larger than the little red squares. The central one, for example, is the size of the circle in the center of the finder. Rick -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: High ISO noise expectations
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 02:18:04PM -0400, Miserere wrote: > 2009/8/13 Larry Colen : > > > > I'm finding that manual focus is working a lot better for me than > > autofocus in low light dance photography. > > Larry, how do you manage to get steady photos while you dance? I'm not shooting while I'm dancing. Well, not usually. I brace myself, and prefer to use a monopod. > > The focus assist really IS like a real assistant; i.e., you can > sometimes let it do your work for you, but if you want it done right, > you have to do it yourself. I wish I could set things up so that it's in manual focus, but I can set a button to autofocus, and then release the motor so I can fine tune the focus by hand. I suppose I can get used to using the focus mode switch by the lens. Even with the katzeye, it's tough in low light manually. I need to train myself that when the camera says it has focus lock, I have to make sure that it is locking on the right thing. > > As for the pics, I can't tell much because the sizes are quite small > on your Flickr page, but I would be happy to be getting that quality That set was processed for facebook, so the smaller size. I just posted those on flickr so Joe could see the EXIF data. > at ISO3200. This one, for example: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/3818423996/in/set-72157622030236980/ > > looks very clean. Thanks. > > High ISO looks crap when you pixel peep, there is no way around that, But sometimes it looks a lot worse than others. > but photographs are either viewed small on the internet or are printed > on 8x12 at the largest (in general). In both cases your high ISO shots > look good. Although I haven't seen an 8x12 print of the above photo, > I'd be willing to bet it *will* look good. > > Cheers, > > > --M. > > > -- > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > http://www.EnticingTheLight.com > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- The first step is learning to take great photos, the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: High ISO noise expectations
The look very nice, when I was shooting 1600 ASA film I'd have killed for such clean results, and I like grain. The fact is we've become spoiled. Larry Colen wrote: I'm still wrestling with my K20D in high ISO. I'm often severely disappointed with the noise level. Last night, I posted these shots to facebook: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622030236980/ I just got a note from a friend of a friend about them: Eric's friend Joe here. Hey, saw the pics you posted, very nice! The lighting was really nice, was it just natural light or fill-flash? It was very nice lighting, but I wondered if if was off-camera flash. Maybe high ISO, but they didn't look noisy. Just wanted to say nice pics! So, it's interesting that a Canon user thinks that my ISO 1600-3200 shots are done with a flash because they aren't very noisy. Then again, I'm not posting the ones that look like crap. I'm finding that manual focus is working a lot better for me than autofocus in low light dance photography, but that sometimes I'll just totally blow the focus. I think that it is because I'm using the red focus alerts as an aid, and sometimes they get confused. -- The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog. --G. K. Chesterton -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: High ISO noise expectations
2009/8/13 Larry Colen : > > I'm finding that manual focus is working a lot better for me than > autofocus in low light dance photography. Larry, how do you manage to get steady photos while you dance? The focus assist really IS like a real assistant; i.e., you can sometimes let it do your work for you, but if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself. As for the pics, I can't tell much because the sizes are quite small on your Flickr page, but I would be happy to be getting that quality at ISO3200. This one, for example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/3818423996/in/set-72157622030236980/ looks very clean. High ISO looks crap when you pixel peep, there is no way around that, but photographs are either viewed small on the internet or are printed on 8x12 at the largest (in general). In both cases your high ISO shots look good. Although I haven't seen an 8x12 print of the above photo, I'd be willing to bet it *will* look good. Cheers, --M. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- http://www.EnticingTheLight.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
High ISO noise expectations
I'm still wrestling with my K20D in high ISO. I'm often severely disappointed with the noise level. Last night, I posted these shots to facebook: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157622030236980/ I just got a note from a friend of a friend about them: Eric's friend Joe here. Hey, saw the pics you posted, very nice! The lighting was really nice, was it just natural light or fill-flash? It was very nice lighting, but I wondered if if was off-camera flash. Maybe high ISO, but they didn't look noisy. Just wanted to say nice pics! So, it's interesting that a Canon user thinks that my ISO 1600-3200 shots are done with a flash because they aren't very noisy. Then again, I'm not posting the ones that look like crap. I'm finding that manual focus is working a lot better for me than autofocus in low light dance photography, but that sometimes I'll just totally blow the focus. I think that it is because I'm using the red focus alerts as an aid, and sometimes they get confused. -- The first step is learning to take great photos, the second step is learning to throw away ones that are merely good. Larry Colen l...@red4est.comhttp://www.red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
