Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
Well Dave, I didn't mean they would lose their propriatary status, but is they don't make a Linux driver available, someone will of nessessity have to reverse engineer their non-linux driver before the hardware will work with Linux. Now a days many hardware manufactures include Linux drivers as a matter of course, others could care less, so there is still often a period where you can not use the newest hardware with Linux. --graywolf - Original Message - From: David A. Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2001 1:30 AM Subject: Re: OT: Ill-timed failures > Tom Rittenhouse writes: > > > The problem with GPLed software is if hardware manufactures consider their > > drivers to be proprietary it takes awhile for someone to reverse engineer > > the driver so it often does not support the very latest hardware. > > There is nothing wrong with releasing proprietary software for an open-source > platform. However, if you modify GPL code you must release your > modifications under the same license. > > Cheers, > > - Dave > > David A. Mann, B.E. (Elec) > http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/ > > "Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up, > while children are allowed to run free on the streets?" -- Garfield > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
Hmmm Sounds like a Do-It-Yourself problem... :P Do it yourself... Or buy it for less than it'd cost to do it yourself. Seems like a simple equation to me. =) I'll shut up now. - John - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: OT: Ill-timed failures
Maybe but Microsoft with their 15,000 programmers has often had to go out and buy somebody else's solution to a problem they either couldn't fix or lacked the time to commit the resources. I've been in this industry since the days of CPM and one thing Microsoft has the muscle to do is buy an entire company just to get the rights to their code because they couldn't do it for the same money or less on their own. Kent Gittings -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of lbparis Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 7:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: Ill-timed failures Dave, That's your guess, but Microsoft has been writing programs and operating systems for at least as long as any of the Linux programmers. I think they are capable of writing networking code without stealing anyone else's. I don't think you can prove what you say, so why say it? Len --- - Original Message - From: "David A. Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:52 PM Subject: Re: OT: Ill-timed failures > Dave O'Brien writes: > > > Win2k is a very good mix of Win9x and NT. It's got the driver support > > of Win9x and far more stability and the solid networking of NT. > > > > Quite frankly, I'd say that someone in Microsoft played with Linux or > > FreeBSD and said "Cripes, the competition makes us look like > > incompetent idiots. We'd better come up with something with gets us a > > little street cred." > > I believe that MS pulled a fair bit of networking code off one of the free BSD > variants for use in NT. They'd rip stuff off Linux as well but the GPL (license) > won't let them, which is why they complain about it. > > Cheers, > > > - Dave > > David A. Mann, B.E. (Elec) > http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/ > > "Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up, > while children are allowed to run free on the streets?" -- Garfield > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ** - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
Even worse, by the terms of the GPL there is no way they could make it proprietary. One of the best features of GPLed software is that anyone can get into the source code. That means that if there is a problem someone can fix it even if the originator no longer cares. Some years back someone told me a problem was a known bug in Linux. My reply was, "A known bug in Linux has a life expectancy of two weeks". A pretty accurate estimate. Compare that to MS where a known bug is there until the next release. The problem with GPLed software is if hardware manufactures consider their drivers to be proprietary it takes awhile for someone to reverse engineer the driver so it often does not support the very latest hardware. --graywolf -- Original Message - From: Ken Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 7:35 PM Subject: Re: OT: Ill-timed failures > > Microsoft is known more for buying new technology than it is for > in-house inovation. Being the biggest bully on the block, it buys > what ever it wants to stifle competition. That is why Linux is such a > thorn in its side. How do buy something they give away for free? > > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:01:04 -0500, lbparis wrote: > That's your guess, but Microsoft has been writing programs and > operating systems for at least as long as any of the Linux > programmers. I think they are capable of writing networking > code without stealing anyone else's. I don't think you can > prove what you say, so why say it? Of course they integrated much of the BSD sockets code. The copyright notices are visible in several of the .DLL and .EXE files, and probably others. Just scan the drive containing Windows for files containing "BSD" or "Regents" and they should pop right out. Nearly everyone has cribbed the BSD sockets code, because it's legal to do so under the BSD license and because they set the standard in TCP stack implementations. TTYL, DougF - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
If they licensed the code, it's not illegal. Lots of software companies license code to anyone willing to pay the price. Nobody vilifies the other companies for doing it, so why should they vilify Microsoft? Len --- - Original Message - From: "Ken Archer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2001 6:35 PM Subject: Re: OT: Ill-timed failures > I am afraid he is right. If you open up some of the "new" stuff in > Windows XP, their new internet operating system, you will see a lot of > BSD code in there that they are obligated to give credit to even if > they are allowed to use it. Linux OTOH would require them to make any > code they used together with Linux code available for anyone to use. > > Microsoft is known more for buying new technology than it is for > in-house inovation. Being the biggest bully on the block, it buys > what ever it wants to stifle competition. That is why Linux is such a > thorn in its side. How do buy something they give away for free? > > On Thursday 25 October 2001 18:01, lbparis wrote: > > Dave, > > > > That's your guess, but Microsoft has been writing programs and > > operating systems for at least as long as any of the Linux > > programmers. I think they are capable of writing networking > > code without stealing anyone else's. I don't think you can > > prove what you say, so why say it? > > > > Len > > --- > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "David A. Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:52 PM > > Subject: Re: OT: Ill-timed failures > > > > > Dave O'Brien writes: > > > > Win2k is a very good mix of Win9x and NT. It's got the > > > > driver support > > > > > > of Win9x and far more stability and the solid networking of > > > > NT. > > > > > > Quite frankly, I'd say that someone in Microsoft played with > > > > Linux or > > > > > > FreeBSD and said "Cripes, the competition makes us look like > > > > incompetent idiots. We'd better come up with something with > > > > gets us a > > > > > > little street cred." > > > > > > I believe that MS pulled a fair bit of networking code off > > > > one of the free BSD > > > > > variants for use in NT. They'd rip stuff off Linux as well > > > > but the GPL (license) > > > > > won't let them, which is why they complain about it. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > - Dave > > > > > > David A. Mann, B.E. (Elec) > > > http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/ > -- > Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas > [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 > Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
I am afraid he is right. If you open up some of the "new" stuff in Windows XP, their new internet operating system, you will see a lot of BSD code in there that they are obligated to give credit to even if they are allowed to use it. Linux OTOH would require them to make any code they used together with Linux code available for anyone to use. Microsoft is known more for buying new technology than it is for in-house inovation. Being the biggest bully on the block, it buys what ever it wants to stifle competition. That is why Linux is such a thorn in its side. How do buy something they give away for free? On Thursday 25 October 2001 18:01, lbparis wrote: > Dave, > > That's your guess, but Microsoft has been writing programs and > operating systems for at least as long as any of the Linux > programmers. I think they are capable of writing networking > code without stealing anyone else's. I don't think you can > prove what you say, so why say it? > > Len > --- > > - Original Message - > From: "David A. Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 5:52 PM > Subject: Re: OT: Ill-timed failures > > > Dave O'Brien writes: > > > Win2k is a very good mix of Win9x and NT. It's got the > > driver support > > > > of Win9x and far more stability and the solid networking of > > NT. > > > > Quite frankly, I'd say that someone in Microsoft played with > > Linux or > > > > FreeBSD and said "Cripes, the competition makes us look like > > > incompetent idiots. We'd better come up with something with > > gets us a > > > > little street cred." > > > > I believe that MS pulled a fair bit of networking code off > > one of the free BSD > > > variants for use in NT. They'd rip stuff off Linux as well > > but the GPL (license) > > > won't let them, which is why they complain about it. > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > - Dave > > > > David A. Mann, B.E. (Elec) > > http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/ -- Kenneth Archer + San Antonio, Texas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ #24980801 Powered by Linux ++ Mailed by Kmail - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
A scroll of mail from "David A. Mann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:52:24 +1300 Read it? y > I believe that MS pulled a fair bit of networking code off one of the free BSD >variants for use in NT. They'd rip stuff off Linux as well but the GPL (license) >won't let them, which is why they complain about it. They used a lot of the BSD code in the winsock. You can find it if you open ftp.exe in a text editor. There are strings saying "copyright regents of the university of california". It's legal to do that with BSD code, however. dave - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: OT: Ill-timed failures
A scroll of mail from "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:46:29 -0400 Read it? y >It seems I've been running the NT box closer to its performance >limits than I'd realized, and when I added a couple more >tasks I discovered how abysmally slow NT4 can be when a >process gets wedged. If you don't mind warez[1], then Win2k is *far* superior to NT. It seems to have a smaller memory footprint as well and it's much more stable. About the only thing I've ever found that'll crash it is flaky drivers on my GeForce 2. While the NT4 box at work falls over at least once every two days, the Win2k box at home only falls over when doing serious benchtesting or updating to Beta drivers. When it was a Pentium II/350, it had a six month uptime. Now that's it's a Celeron 800, I keep fiddling with it, so it goes down (ooerr missus) whenever I want to change things. The Win98 box at home used to crash *at* *least* twice a day. Win98 was just a shocking product. My cousin who works for Microsoft used to look embarrassed when I mentioned it. I think he used the phrase 'Ford Pinto' when describing it. Win2k is a very good mix of Win9x and NT. It's got the driver support of Win9x and far more stability and the solid networking of NT. Quite frankly, I'd say that someone in Microsoft played with Linux or FreeBSD and said "Cripes, the competition makes us look like incompetent idiots. We'd better come up with something with gets us a little street cred." If I hadn't tried Win2k, I'd be a completely Linux/BSD shop right now, it's really that good. >Repairing the 95 box just became a lot more urgent -- either >that or start rearranging hardware, because it's what the >scanner is plugged into. Newer Linuxes (2.4.xx) are supposed to handle scanners better. I haven't tried this myself as the Win2k box handles it just fine. You can get RedHat 7.1 with the 2.4 kernel from http://linuxcentral.com for very little outlay, and FreeBSD 4.2 from the same place for even less. >Okay, after being interrupted by the largest moth I've ever >seen indoors (why no, I have only seen Luna moths _outdoors_), Get yourself a large lizard to eat the Moths. Something Godzilla sized should do the trick for even the largest moths. Or so this Japanese Documentary I just saw said. >Gosh, my belongings have annoying timing. > > -- Glenn Wait till you have in-laws, they'll be even worse. dave [1] and quite frankly, taking money out of Bill Gates' wallet doesn't disturb me very much. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
