Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Bob Sullivan]

Lol...

On 9/7/06, Norman Baugher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Frank - I'm starting to worry about you...(well, not starting, just worrying
> more now)
> Norm
>
> From: "frank theriault"
> > Oh my God!
> > I'm actually finding myself in agreement with Norm.
> > I better go back to lurking.  Something is seriously wrong here.
> > But, Bob did indeed hit the nail on the head.
>
>
>
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[David Savage]

On 9/9/06, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Juey Chong Ong wrote:
>
> >On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Bob Shell wrote:
> >
> >> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
> >> about photographers for the rest of their lives.
> >
> >Do grown-ups have negative feelings about doctors for the rest of
> >their lives?
>
> I know I do! ;-)

That must be tough.

Dave

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[P. J. Alling]

I suspect that dentists are closet sadists.  See "Little Shop of 
Horrors" for more information.

Norman Baugher wrote:

>I do about dentists...
>Norm
>
>From: "Juey Chong Ong" 
>  
>
>>On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Bob Shell wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
>>>about photographers for the rest of their lives.
>>>  
>>>
>>Do grown-ups have negative feelings about doctors for the rest of  
>>their lives?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>  
>


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Mark Roberts]

Juey Chong Ong wrote:

>On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Bob Shell wrote:
>
>> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
>> about photographers for the rest of their lives.
>
>Do grown-ups have negative feelings about doctors for the rest of  
>their lives?

I know I do! ;-)
 
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Juey Chong Ong]

On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Bob Shell wrote:

> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
> about photographers for the rest of their lives.

Do grown-ups have negative feelings about doctors for the rest of  
their lives?



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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Norman Baugher]

I do about dentists...
Norm

From: "Juey Chong Ong" 
> On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:55 AM, Bob Shell wrote:
> 
>> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
>> about photographers for the rest of their lives.
> 
> Do grown-ups have negative feelings about doctors for the rest of  
> their lives?



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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: "John Forbes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/09/08 Fri AM 12:27:11 GMT
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:01:19 +0100, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
> wrote:
> 
> >
> >>
> >> From: "David Savage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu AM 11:01:26 GMT
> >> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> >> Subject: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> >>
> >> I just heard about this on the news.
> >>
> >> The story:
> >> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
> >>
> >> The images:
> >> <http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
> >>
> >> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
> >>
> >> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> >> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> >> my reactions :-)
> >>
> >
> > I wouldn't have a problem with pictures of "genuine" reactions but  
> > forcing those reactions from toddlers seems to deserve the Edward II  
> > treatment.
> 
> I have to say that I am glad you are not on the bench, Mike.  Let the  
> punishment fit the crime.

I'm more of a "let the punishment fit the criminal" sort of chap.

8-))


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[John Forbes]

On Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:01:19 +0100, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:

>
>>
>> From: "David Savage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu AM 11:01:26 GMT
>> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>> Subject: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
>>
>> I just heard about this on the news.
>>
>> The story:
>> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
>>
>> The images:
>> <http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
>>
>> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>>
>> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
>> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
>> my reactions :-)
>>
>
> I wouldn't have a problem with pictures of "genuine" reactions but  
> forcing those reactions from toddlers seems to deserve the Edward II  
> treatment.

I have to say that I am glad you are not on the bench, Mike.  Let the  
punishment fit the crime.

John


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Cotty]

On 7/9/06, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I don't know what the hell art is.

MARK!

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Norman Baugher]

Frank - I'm starting to worry about you...(well, not starting, just worrying 
more now)
Norm

From: "frank theriault"
> Oh my God!
> I'm actually finding myself in agreement with Norm.
> I better go back to lurking.  Something is seriously wrong here.
> But, Bob did indeed hit the nail on the head.



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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[frank theriault]

On 9/7/06, Norman Baugher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mr. Walkden, I believe that's about as well put as it's going to get...
> Norm

Oh my God!

I'm actually finding myself in agreement with Norm.

I better go back to lurking.  Something is seriously wrong here.

But, Bob did indeed hit the nail on the head.

cheers,
frank
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[frank theriault]

On 9/7/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just heard about this on the news.
>
> The story:
> 
>
> The images:
> 
>
> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>
> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> my reactions :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>

I don't know what the hell art is.

Whatever it is, this doesn't please me.

And, as photographs, I find them to be entirely un-natural and
over-processed looking.

OTOH, she can do whatever the hell she wants, and I don't see it as
child abuse to take photos of kids crying (assuming nothing horrible
was done to these kids to elicite those reactions.

But, an allegory for the Bush admin?  I'm no admirer of his, but
that's a stretch.

Personally, I think this is shite.

I haven't read any other replies yet, so this might be fun.

cheers,
frank, delurked for the moment

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Cotty]

On 7/9/06, Norman Baugher, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Mr. Walkden, I believe that's about as well put as it's going to get...
>Norm


Oh for God's sake, Norm's surfaced.

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[DagT]

Den 7. sep. 2006 kl. 13.01 skrev David Savage:

> I just heard about this on the news.
>
> The story:
> 
>
> The images:
> 
>
> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>
> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> my reactions :-)

I´ve seen them before, and heard the story, and I still don´t really  
see the problem.  Whether it is art or not is not very relevant to  
me.  She does put some attention on how we react to these pictures.  
To me they are also some kind of comment on the same type of pictures  
that were popular, at least around here, in the 70´s.

I don´t any harm was done to the children.  I have at least one such  
face every morning trying to get three boys between 3,5 and 7 years  
off to School and Kindergarden and the only ones it has any effect on  
are the parents .-)


DagT
http://dag.foto.no

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Shel Belinkoff]

How much did they earn?

Shel



> [Original Message]
> From: Kenneth Waller

> > What bothers me most is that these kids will  
> > have negative feelings about photographers for 
> > the rest of their lives.
>
> But the parents most likely won't, given the money 
> those kids earned for the shoot!



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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Kenneth Waller]

> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
> about photographers for the rest of their lives.

But the parents most likely won't, given the money those kids earned for the 
shoot!

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Shell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.


>
> On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Digital Image Studio wrote:
>
>>> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the
>>> same child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately
>>> provoking the reaction is abhorent to me.
>>
>> Scarred for life :-(
>
> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
> about photographers for the rest of their lives.
>
> Bob
>
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Kenneth Waller]

> It looks to me much more like a very cheap and very dirty way to
> attract attention.

For who ? The blogger or the photog?

Kenneth Waller

- Original Message - 
From: "Boris Liberman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.


> On 9/7/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I just heard about this on the news.
>>
>> The story:
>> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
>>
>> The images:
>> <http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
>>
>> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
> 
> It looks to me much more like a very cheap and very dirty way to
> attract attention.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Boris
> 
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Jostein Øksne]

On 9/7/06, Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It seems to me that she is another of these people who think they are
> the only ones who feel things, rather like that stupid woman who
> promoted 'No Photography Day' because she claimed people weren't 'in
> the moment'.

Could very well be. To me, her argument looks like a retrofit after
the reaction against the photos. That doesn't make the argument less
lame, of course.

> We are indeed inundated with images in our culture. Every day I can
> look at pictures of real children starving to death, being blown up by
> car bombs in Iraq, having their hands cut off by the Lord's Resistance
> Army, being worked to death making bricks or trainers, or being kept
> in a car inspection pit for 8 years.
>
> If this kind of thing doesn't make people feel, then I don't think a
> picture of some kid crying for candy will do it.

The destiny of Natascha Kampusch seem to touch a lot more people in
the Western world than do images from any of the more remote conflicts
you mention. It must something about being able to relate to the
story. Toddler pics has a right of way into many parents' hearts for
that very reason.

Considering the images and the way she obtained them, the project as
such isn't so bad. She only incited what is a normal emotional
response on even the slightest distress for some children. However,
she didn't anticipate what was coming at her, and her defence does no
good. I agree that her statements puts her in a bad light as an
artist.

Jostein

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Norman Baugher]

Mr. Walkden, I believe that's about as well put as it's going to get...
Norm
 
From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"I was trying to make images that made you feel something, because we
are so inundated with images in our culture that oftentimes people
don't feel anything."

It seems to me that she is another of these people who think they are
the only ones who feel things, rather like that stupid woman who
promoted 'No Photography Day' because she claimed people weren't 'in
the moment'.

We are indeed inundated with images in our culture. Every day I can
look at pictures of real children starving to death, being blown up by
car bombs in Iraq, having their hands cut off by the Lord's Resistance
Army, being worked to death making bricks or trainers, or being kept
in a car inspection pit for 8 years.

If this kind of thing doesn't make people feel, then I don't think a
picture of some kid crying for candy will do it.


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RE: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Bob W]

"I was trying to make images that made you feel something, because we
are so inundated with images in our culture that oftentimes people
don’t feel anything.”

It seems to me that she is another of these people who think they are
the only ones who feel things, rather like that stupid woman who
promoted 'No Photography Day' because she claimed people weren't 'in
the moment'.

We are indeed inundated with images in our culture. Every day I can
look at pictures of real children starving to death, being blown up by
car bombs in Iraq, having their hands cut off by the Lord's Resistance
Army, being worked to death making bricks or trainers, or being kept
in a car inspection pit for 8 years.

If this kind of thing doesn't make people feel, then I don't think a
picture of some kid crying for candy will do it.

--
Cheers,
 Bob 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of Jostein Øksne
> Sent: 07 September 2006 12:46
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> Of course it is art.
> 
> If the Times is right about how she obtained the photographs, it
puts
> the blogger's reaction in a very tragic perspective. That one man,
> with access to a blog site and some skill in concocting a demagogic
> argument can mislead "hundreds" into attacking another person.
> 
> 
> Jostein
> 
> 
> On 9/7/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I just heard about this on the news.
> >
> > The story:
> > <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
> >
> > The images:
> > <http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
> >
> > Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
> >
> > Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was
a
> > kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to 
> photograph
> > my reactions :-)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[P. J. Alling]

  :-D

mike wilson wrote:

>>From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 03:48:43 GMT
>>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>>Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
>>
>>I read the article and the photographers own words give me the 
>>impression that she's out of touch with reality, in some ways.  Most 
>>people in society have been conditioned to see images such as these as 
>>child abuse.  However she got a lot of free publicity out of it.and 
>>since California seems to have become just a large extension of 
>>Hollywood, I guess down deep she's, if not enjoying it, benefiting by 
>>it.  Just remember the old adage, "It doesn't matter what they print, as 
>>long as they spell my name right!"
>>
>>
>
>Greneburg she is, then.
>
>  
>
>>David Savage wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>I just heard about this on the news.
>>>
>>>The story:
>>><http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
>>>
>>>The images:
>>><http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
>>>
>>>Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>>>
>>>Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
>>>kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
>>>my reactions :-)
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>-- 
>>Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.
>>
>>  --Albert Einstein
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 03:48:43 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> I read the article and the photographers own words give me the 
> impression that she's out of touch with reality, in some ways.  Most 
> people in society have been conditioned to see images such as these as 
> child abuse.  However she got a lot of free publicity out of it.and 
> since California seems to have become just a large extension of 
> Hollywood, I guess down deep she's, if not enjoying it, benefiting by 
> it.  Just remember the old adage, "It doesn't matter what they print, as 
> long as they spell my name right!"

Greneburg she is, then.

> 
> David Savage wrote:
> 
> >I just heard about this on the news.
> >
> >The story:
> ><http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
> >
> >The images:
> ><http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
> >
> >Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
> >
> >Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> >kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> >my reactions :-)
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Things should be made as simple as possible -- but no simpler.
> 
>   --Albert Einstein
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[P. J. Alling]

I read the article and the photographers own words give me the 
impression that she's out of touch with reality, in some ways.  Most 
people in society have been conditioned to see images such as these as 
child abuse.  However she got a lot of free publicity out of it.and 
since California seems to have become just a large extension of 
Hollywood, I guess down deep she's, if not enjoying it, benefiting by 
it.  Just remember the old adage, "It doesn't matter what they print, as 
long as they spell my name right!"

David Savage wrote:

>I just heard about this on the news.
>
>The story:
>
>
>The images:
>
>
>Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>
>Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
>kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
>my reactions :-)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dave
>
>  
>


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Jostein Øksne]

IMHO, it says more about the phenomenon of child modelling, than it
does about the photographic idea. Brings a dimension of good irony to
the project...:-)

Jostein

On 9/7/06, Lucas Rijnders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Op Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:55:57 +0200 schreef Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Digital Image Studio wrote:
>
> >>> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the
> >>> same child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately
> >>> provoking the reaction is abhorent to me.
> >>
> >> Scarred for life :-(
> >
> > What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
> > about photographers for the rest of their lives.
>
> Oh, come on. Because mamma left the room, and came back again? On one day,
> once, or a few times at most?
>
> --
> Regards, Lucas
>
>
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[David J Brooks]

Quoting Scott Loveless <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Who cares if it's art?  Did you notice the price of her prints?  Now
> that's mean spirited!


MARK.

Dave
>
> --
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> http://www.twosixteen.com
> Shoot more film!
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Equine Photography in York Region

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Scott Loveless]

On 9/7/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just heard about this on the news.
>
> The story:
> 
>
> The images:
> 
>
> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>

Who cares if it's art?  Did you notice the price of her prints?  Now
that's mean spirited!

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Shoot more film!

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Digital Image Studio]

On 08/09/06, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Probably not but I place it on the same level as pulling the wings off flies.

Exactly, one of the poor little sods had piercings already.

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Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[mike wilson]

Forget that I said that 8-)))  Bleeding scabby webmail interfaces - let's take 
the lollipops off the software developers.
> 
> From: mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 02:24:30 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> 
> > 
> > From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 12:55:57 GMT
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> > Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> > 
> > 
> > On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Digital Image Studio wrote:
> > 
> > >> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the  
> > >> same child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately  
> > >> provoking the reaction is abhorent to me.
> > >
> > > Scarred for life :-(
> > 
> > What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings  
> > about photographers for the rest of their lives.
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Lucas Rijnders]

Op Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:36:03 +0200 schreef mike wilson  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>>
>> From: "Lucas Rijnders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 12:22:25 GMT
>> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
>>
>> Op Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:01:19 +0200 schreef mike wilson
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>> >> From: "David Savage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> I just heard about this on the news.
>> >>
>> >> The story:
>> >> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
>> >>
>> >> The images:
>> >> <http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
>> >>
>> >> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.

>> It's probably art. Not very good art, in my opinion, but still art...

>> >> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
>> >> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to  
>> photograph
>> >> my reactions :-)

>> > I wouldn't have a problem with pictures of "genuine" reactions but
>> > forcing those reactions from toddlers seems to deserve the Edward II
>> > treatment.

>> Isn't that a bit harsh (if I read up on Edward correctly)? My son pulls
>> faces like that serveral times a day. Sometimes without (discernible)
>> reason, sometimes after provocations quite similar to what was done  
>> here.
>> Thinks like saying 'you are going to bed' or 'no, you can't have another
>> cookie' to him :o)

> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the same  
> child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately provoking the  
> reaction is abhorent to me.

Well, I wouldn't dream of doing this myself, but I find the negative  
reactions (not yours, Mike, but the ones cited in the article) overblown...

Taking ugly pictures, giving them a wholly unconnected title and selling  
it as 'art' or even a 'political statement', now that's abhorrent. Or it's  
a big joke. The comment on photographing bears as a metaphor seemed to  
hint that way. i mean, she can't be serious, can she?

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Lucas Rijnders]

Op Thu, 07 Sep 2006 14:55:57 +0200 schreef Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Digital Image Studio wrote:

>>> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the
>>> same child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately
>>> provoking the reaction is abhorent to me.
>>
>> Scarred for life :-(
>
> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings
> about photographers for the rest of their lives.

Oh, come on. Because mamma left the room, and came back again? On one day,  
once, or a few times at most?

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Boris Liberman]

On 9/7/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just heard about this on the news.
>
> The story:
> 
>
> The images:
> 
>
> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.

It looks to me much more like a very cheap and very dirty way to
attract attention.



-- 
Boris

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 12:55:57 GMT
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> 
> On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Digital Image Studio wrote:
> 
> >> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the  
> >> same child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately  
> >> provoking the reaction is abhorent to me.
> >
> > Scarred for life :-(
> 
> What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings  
> about photographers for the rest of their lives.
> 
> Bob
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> 


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[mike wilson]

> From: "Digital Image Studio" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 12:40:55 GMT
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> On 07/09/06, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the same 
> > child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately provoking the 
> > reaction is abhorent to me.
> 
> Scarred for life :-(

Probably not but I place it on the same level as pulling the wings off flies.


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Bob Shell]

On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:40 AM, Digital Image Studio wrote:

>> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the  
>> same child to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately  
>> provoking the reaction is abhorent to me.
>
> Scarred for life :-(

What bothers me most is that these kids will  have negative feelings  
about photographers for the rest of their lives.

Bob

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Digital Image Studio]

On 07/09/06, mike wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the same child 
> to a studio, lighting them and then deliberately provoking the reaction is 
> abhorent to me.

Scarred for life :-(

-- 
Rob Studdert
HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~distudio//publications/
Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998

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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: "Lucas Rijnders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu PM 12:22:25 GMT
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> Op Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:01:19 +0200 schreef mike wilson  
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 
> >> From: "David Savage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> I just heard about this on the news.
> >>
> >> The story:
> >> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
> >>
> >> The images:
> >> <http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
> >>
> >> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
> 
> It's probably art. Not very good art, in my opinion, but still art...
> 
> >> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> >> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> >> my reactions :-)
> >
> > I wouldn't have a problem with pictures of "genuine" reactions but  
> > forcing those reactions from toddlers seems to deserve the Edward II  
> > treatment.
> 
> Isn't that a bit harsh (if I read up on Edward correctly)? My son pulls  
> faces like that serveral times a day. Sometimes without (discernible)  
> reason, sometimes after provocations quite similar to what was done here.  
> Thinks like saying 'you are going to bed' or 'no, you can't have another  
> cookie' to him :o)
> 

That is a normal (and proper) part of growing up.  But taking the same child to 
a studio, lighting them and then deliberately provoking the reaction is 
abhorent to me.


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Lucas Rijnders]

Op Thu, 07 Sep 2006 15:01:19 +0200 schreef mike wilson  
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

>> From: "David Savage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> I just heard about this on the news.
>>
>> The story:
>> 
>>
>> The images:
>> 
>>
>> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.

It's probably art. Not very good art, in my opinion, but still art...

>> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
>> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
>> my reactions :-)
>
> I wouldn't have a problem with pictures of "genuine" reactions but  
> forcing those reactions from toddlers seems to deserve the Edward II  
> treatment.

Isn't that a bit harsh (if I read up on Edward correctly)? My son pulls  
faces like that serveral times a day. Sometimes without (discernible)  
reason, sometimes after provocations quite similar to what was done here.  
Thinks like saying 'you are going to bed' or 'no, you can't have another  
cookie' to him :o)

-- 
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Digital Image Studio]

On 07/09/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just heard about this on the news.
>
> The story:
> 
>
> The images:
> 
>
> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>
> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> my reactions :-)

That's great, it's about as real as it gets, I'm betting that those
faces relate a lot to the sensitivity of people they will become.

-- 
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HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA
Tel +61-2-9554-4110
UTC(GMT)  +10 Hours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[mike wilson]

> 
> From: "David Savage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2006/09/07 Thu AM 11:01:26 GMT
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.
> 
> I just heard about this on the news.
> 
> The story:
> <http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2099-2318645,00.html>
> 
> The images:
> <http://www.paulkopeikingallery.com/artists/greenberg/index0.htm>
> 
> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
> 
> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> my reactions :-)
> 

I wouldn't have a problem with pictures of "genuine" reactions but forcing 
those reactions from toddlers seems to deserve the Edward II treatment.


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Re: OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[Jostein Øksne]

Of course it is art.

If the Times is right about how she obtained the photographs, it puts
the blogger's reaction in a very tragic perspective. That one man,
with access to a blog site and some skill in concocting a demagogic
argument can mislead "hundreds" into attacking another person.


Jostein


On 9/7/06, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just heard about this on the news.
>
> The story:
> 
>
> The images:
> 
>
> Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.
>
> Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
> kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
> my reactions :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
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OT: Taking Candy from a baby.

[David Savage]

I just heard about this on the news.

The story:


The images:


Is it art? Seems a bit mean spirited to me.

Although when I think back to how my parents teased me when I was a
kid, it's pretty tame. At least they had the decency not to photograph
my reactions :-)

Cheers,

Dave

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