Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
On Nov 20, 2005, at 5:01 PM, P. J. Alling wrote: A web search turns up a mixed bag about the explosive properties of Nitrocellulose billiard balls, some seem to think that the paints used to color them might have acted as a primer... Anyone interested in experimenting? Might have been those infamous and now outlawed flint-tipped pool cues. Bob
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
A web search turns up a mixed bag about the explosive properties of Nitrocellulose billiard balls, some seem to think that the paints used to color them might have acted as a primer... Anyone interested in experimenting? graywolf wrote: As a note, unless it is deteriating, or chopped up into fine particles nitrocellulose is not as bad as it sounds in this thread. You would probably have a hard time igniting that billiard ball mentioned for instance. But once burning it would be almost impossible to put out. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Mark Roberts wrote: Paul Sorenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: graywolf wrote: LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. The "dope" used to stiffen the fabric on early airplanes was cellulose nitrate and highly flammable. Many a WWI aviator chose to jump to his death sans parachute rather than burn to death in a flaming aircraft. Yep. This "dope", mixed with powdered aluminum, was what the painted the exterior of zeppelins with. The dope is highly inflammable and when mixed with powdered aluminum it's basically rocket fuel! This, rather than the hydrogen, is now acknowledged as what was responsible for the Hindenberg disaster (it was ignited by stat electric discharge from the mooring tower to the airframe). -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
As a note, unless it is deteriating, or chopped up into fine particles nitrocellulose is not as bad as it sounds in this thread. You would probably have a hard time igniting that billiard ball mentioned for instance. But once burning it would be almost impossible to put out. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Mark Roberts wrote: Paul Sorenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: graywolf wrote: LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. The "dope" used to stiffen the fabric on early airplanes was cellulose nitrate and highly flammable. Many a WWI aviator chose to jump to his death sans parachute rather than burn to death in a flaming aircraft. Yep. This "dope", mixed with powdered aluminum, was what the painted the exterior of zeppelins with. The dope is highly inflammable and when mixed with powdered aluminum it's basically rocket fuel! This, rather than the hydrogen, is now acknowledged as what was responsible for the Hindenberg disaster (it was ignited by stat electric discharge from the mooring tower to the airframe).
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
Paul Sorenson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >graywolf wrote: >> LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. >> >> BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics >> paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other >> instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. >> >The "dope" used to stiffen the fabric on early airplanes was cellulose >nitrate and highly flammable. Many a WWI aviator chose to jump to his >death sans parachute rather than burn to death in a flaming aircraft. Yep. This "dope", mixed with powdered aluminum, was what the painted the exterior of zeppelins with. The dope is highly inflammable and when mixed with powdered aluminum it's basically rocket fuel! This, rather than the hydrogen, is now acknowledged as what was responsible for the Hindenberg disaster (it was ignited by stat electric discharge from the mooring tower to the airframe). -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
The "dope" used to stiffen the fabric on early airplanes was cellulose nitrate and highly flammable. Many a WWI aviator chose to jump to his death sans parachute rather than burn to death in a flaming aircraft. -P graywolf wrote: LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Scott Loveless wrote: Thanks for the correction, Bob. I actually did a bit of googling, instead of just recalling from memory, and found that the Cellulose acetate has an ignition temp of 800F and the Estar base 900F. I'm assuming the cellulose nitrate ignited at much lower temperatures. On 11/19/05, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:17 PM, Scott Loveless wrote: Most likely, it means that the film has an Estar (or whatever Kodak called it back then) base instead of a celluloid base. The safety film ignited at a higher temperature than the older celluloid stuff. Thus - safety film. As far as EI goes, you'll just have to wait for someone more knowledgeable than me to reply. Nope. Cellulose acetate was the "Safety Film". It replaced cellulose nitrate, the stuff that tended to spontaneously combust. Estar (same as Mylar) was a much later development. Bob -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
Nitrocellulose was originally used as a substitute for ivory in billiard balls... Bob Shell wrote: On Nov 19, 2005, at 9:05 PM, graywolf wrote: LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. Yep, same stuff as gun cotton. You don't want a basement full of that stuff. It's a big problem out in Hollywood where the studios have warehouses full of classic films shot on this stuff. One day all of Hollywood history might go up in flames. Bob -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
Some of it already has... Bob Shell wrote: On Nov 19, 2005, at 9:05 PM, graywolf wrote: LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. Yep, same stuff as gun cotton. You don't want a basement full of that stuff. It's a big problem out in Hollywood where the studios have warehouses full of classic films shot on this stuff. One day all of Hollywood history might go up in flames. Bob -- When you're worried or in doubt, Run in circles, (scream and shout).
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
On Nov 19, 2005, at 9:05 PM, graywolf wrote: LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. Yep, same stuff as gun cotton. You don't want a basement full of that stuff. It's a big problem out in Hollywood where the studios have warehouses full of classic films shot on this stuff. One day all of Hollywood history might go up in flames. Bob
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
LOL! Nitrocellulose, AKA, gun cotten is classified as an explosive. BTW they use it for paint too. Gives a much nicer look than Acrilics paint does. It is still the preferred finish for guitar and other instrument sound boards as it give a much mellower sound. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Scott Loveless wrote: Thanks for the correction, Bob. I actually did a bit of googling, instead of just recalling from memory, and found that the Cellulose acetate has an ignition temp of 800F and the Estar base 900F. I'm assuming the cellulose nitrate ignited at much lower temperatures. On 11/19/05, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:17 PM, Scott Loveless wrote: Most likely, it means that the film has an Estar (or whatever Kodak called it back then) base instead of a celluloid base. The safety film ignited at a higher temperature than the older celluloid stuff. Thus - safety film. As far as EI goes, you'll just have to wait for someone more knowledgeable than me to reply. Nope. Cellulose acetate was the "Safety Film". It replaced cellulose nitrate, the stuff that tended to spontaneously combust. Estar (same as Mylar) was a much later development. Bob -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
>On Nov 19, 2005, at 2:51 PM, Scott Loveless wrote: > >> Thanks for the correction, Bob. I actually did a bit of googling, >> instead of just recalling from memory, and found that the Cellulose >> acetate has an ignition temp of 800F and the Estar base 900F. I'm >> assuming the cellulose nitrate ignited at much lower temperatures. > > >It isn't so much that cellulose nitrate has a low combustion >temperature, but that it decomposes in storage and the byproducts of >this decomposition tend to spontaneously combust. So a closet full >of old nitrate film was like a ticking time bomb. > >Bob Much of Canada's early aerial survey photography was done on cellulose nitrate for stability. It is housed in a refrigerated vault with walls several feet thick. Powell
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
On Nov 19, 2005, at 2:51 PM, Scott Loveless wrote: Thanks for the correction, Bob. I actually did a bit of googling, instead of just recalling from memory, and found that the Cellulose acetate has an ignition temp of 800F and the Estar base 900F. I'm assuming the cellulose nitrate ignited at much lower temperatures. It isn't so much that cellulose nitrate has a low combustion temperature, but that it decomposes in storage and the byproducts of this decomposition tend to spontaneously combust. So a closet full of old nitrate film was like a ticking time bomb. Bob
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
- Original Message - From: "Scott Loveless" Subject: Re: OT - old Kodak film identification? Thanks for the correction, Bob. I actually did a bit of googling, instead of just recalling from memory, and found that the Cellulose acetate has an ignition temp of 800F and the Estar base 900F. I'm assuming the cellulose nitrate ignited at much lower temperatures. Cellulose nitrate was quite capable of spontaneous ignition. I contact printed some old nitrate sheets for the local provincial archives a few years ago. I was never so glad to get a job done and out of the building in my life. William Robb
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
Thanks for the correction, Bob. I actually did a bit of googling, instead of just recalling from memory, and found that the Cellulose acetate has an ignition temp of 800F and the Estar base 900F. I'm assuming the cellulose nitrate ignited at much lower temperatures. On 11/19/05, Bob Shell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:17 PM, Scott Loveless wrote: > > > Most likely, it means that the film has an Estar (or whatever Kodak > > called it back then) base instead of a celluloid base. The safety > > film ignited at a higher temperature than the older celluloid stuff. > > Thus - safety film. As far as EI goes, you'll just have to wait for > > someone more knowledgeable than me to reply. > > > Nope. Cellulose acetate was the "Safety Film". It replaced > cellulose nitrate, the stuff that tended to spontaneously combust. > Estar (same as Mylar) was a much later development. > > Bob > > -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
On Nov 18, 2005, at 11:10 PM, graywolf wrote: It just means it is not nitrocellulosebased film. Consumer film pretty much stopped using that before WWII, but motion picture film still used nitrocellulose into the late fifties. Nitrate base films were preferred because cellulose nitrate was more dimensionally stable and didn't tend to get brittle when projected frequently. Both were concerns for cinematography, but not for still photography. When 16mm film was first introduced in the 30s, it was considered an amateur film for making home movies. It was made on "Safety Film" base from the beginning, because of the concern about home fires. 35mm motion picture film continued to be made on nitrate base because professionals demanded it. The only 16mm motion picture film ever coated onto nitrate base was special production ordered by companies like Movietone News who issued it to their cameramen. Bob
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
On Nov 18, 2005, at 10:17 PM, Scott Loveless wrote: Most likely, it means that the film has an Estar (or whatever Kodak called it back then) base instead of a celluloid base. The safety film ignited at a higher temperature than the older celluloid stuff. Thus - safety film. As far as EI goes, you'll just have to wait for someone more knowledgeable than me to reply. Nope. Cellulose acetate was the "Safety Film". It replaced cellulose nitrate, the stuff that tended to spontaneously combust. Estar (same as Mylar) was a much later development. Bob
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
Excellent. Thank you Bill. -Mat (still scanning... digital ICE takes a LONG time on a 6x6 negative) On 11/18/05, William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It is Kodacolour-X. > Process C-22. > > William Robb > > >
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
It just means it is not nitrocellulosebased film. Consumer film pretty much stopped using that before WWII, but motion picture film still used nitrocellulose into the late fifties. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Scott Loveless wrote: On 11/18/05, Mat Maessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm in the middle of scanning some 6x6 negatives that my late father took back in the mid to late 60's, possible very early 70's. It's color film, I assume C41 process, or a predecessor to C41 (has the same orange tint, scanner color-corrects it pretty well). The only marking on the margin of the film is "Kodak Safety Film." Anyone have any ideas about what kind of Kodak film it might be? Most likely, it means that the film has an Estar (or whatever Kodak called it back then) base instead of a celluloid base. The safety film ignited at a higher temperature than the older celluloid stuff. Thus - safety film. As far as EI goes, you'll just have to wait for someone more knowledgeable than me to reply. HTH. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
- Original Message - From: "Mat Maessen" Subject: OT - old Kodak film identification? The only marking on the margin of the film is "Kodak Safety Film." Anyone have any ideas about what kind of Kodak film it might be? It is Kodacolour-X. Process C-22. William Robb
Re: OT - old Kodak film identification?
On 11/18/05, Mat Maessen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm in the middle of scanning some 6x6 negatives that my late father > took back in the mid to late 60's, possible very early 70's. It's > color film, I assume C41 process, or a predecessor to C41 (has the > same orange tint, scanner color-corrects it pretty well). The only > marking on the margin of the film is "Kodak Safety Film." > > Anyone have any ideas about what kind of Kodak film it might be? Most likely, it means that the film has an Estar (or whatever Kodak called it back then) base instead of a celluloid base. The safety film ignited at a higher temperature than the older celluloid stuff. Thus - safety film. As far as EI goes, you'll just have to wait for someone more knowledgeable than me to reply. HTH. -- Scott Loveless http://www.twosixteen.com -- "You have to hold the button down" -Arnold Newman
OT - old Kodak film identification?
I'm in the middle of scanning some 6x6 negatives that my late father took back in the mid to late 60's, possible very early 70's. It's color film, I assume C41 process, or a predecessor to C41 (has the same orange tint, scanner color-corrects it pretty well). The only marking on the margin of the film is "Kodak Safety Film." Anyone have any ideas about what kind of Kodak film it might be? Just a simple curiousity question. Compared to current consumer color films, the colors are quite muted. And I discovered that scanning it at 3200 DPI just shows the aberration of the lens and the film grain that much clearer. :-) Knowing my dad, it was probably a pretty mainstream consumer film at the time, and processed at the local dime store, or the Dutch equivalent. Hopefully, I'll have a gallery up soon of pictures taken before I was born. -Mat
