RE: Bitter grapes: pure red...
> > including English I have studied 6 languages to varying degrees, and > > also did 2 years of linguistics which includes a quick look at various > > other non-Indo-European languages. I'm very interested in historical > > linguistics, so I try to keep somewhat up-to-date with it. In my > > schooldays it was compulsory to take at least one Foreign language up > > to the age of 13 or 14, but nowadays I don't think any foreign > > languages are compulsory, which is scandalous in my opinion. > > > > B > > I totally agree with you, Bob. I find my knowledge of 2.5 language (I don't > write Hebrew and hardly read) most useful in great many situations. And > entertaining as well. > > Consider this (joke). Kama in Hebrew means "how much" or "how many" > depending on context. "S utra" (two words) in Russian means "in the > morning"... So, Kama S_Utra becomes somewhat funny. Further, "S vechera" > (two words) meaning "in the evening" can be used as an opposite of Kama > Sutra - Kama Svechera :-). > one of our TV sports commentators is called Sue Barker, which amuses me because it is so similar to the Russian word for 'dog'. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On 9/12/2010 5:18 PM, Bob W wrote: including English I have studied 6 languages to varying degrees, and also did 2 years of linguistics which includes a quick look at various other non-Indo-European languages. I'm very interested in historical linguistics, so I try to keep somewhat up-to-date with it. In my schooldays it was compulsory to take at least one Foreign language up to the age of 13 or 14, but nowadays I don't think any foreign languages are compulsory, which is scandalous in my opinion. B I totally agree with you, Bob. I find my knowledge of 2.5 language (I don't write Hebrew and hardly read) most useful in great many situations. And entertaining as well. Consider this (joke). Kama in Hebrew means "how much" or "how many" depending on context. "S utra" (two words) in Russian means "in the morning"... So, Kama S_Utra becomes somewhat funny. Further, "S vechera" (two words) meaning "in the evening" can be used as an opposite of Kama Sutra - Kama Svechera :-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 10:11 AM, Bob W wrote: > why do you scratch your head? > > A grape is a berry of the vine. the /owa/ part of rowan has the same > etymology as the word uva (Latin for grape), related also to oin- as in > oinophile from the Greek word, which also gave rise to the English words > wine and vine, through French vin, vigne etc. No doubt right back to the > proto-Indo-European. Your word ryabina looks to me as though it has a > similar etymology as rowan with the /b/ having substituted for /v/ or /w/, > which is very common. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some European > languages used the same word for both berry and grape. > > Calling it a rowan berry may be one of those great examples of the same > meaning being inadvertently repeated in a phrase, in this case being 'berry > berry'. This sort of thing is found a lot where one language group has > replaced another. The conqueror points to some natural feature and asks > 'What is that called'. The vanquished native replies 'it is the Don' meaning > 'it's the river, you idiot'*. The mighty conqueror says 'we shall call it > the River Don'. And so it flows quietly on. And that's why we have a Don River right here in Toronto. Because Toronto's full of idiots. Mind you, it's more of concrete-lined open sewer than a river, which I guess makes us even more idiotic, doesn't it? cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
Bob W wrote: On 9/9/2010 11:17 PM, Roman Melihhov wrote: http://roman.blakout.net/?blog=20100909230908 ^ Bitter grapes are in so perfect shape this fall. Perhaps hot summer and plenty of rain had given boost to these beautiful red bits more than any other fall I remember. And they taste... well... bitter but I like dry them and add to my herbal tea mixture or frozen few cans and use for bakery later... Lovely. Did not know that word in English for good old ryabina :-). the correct term in English is rowan berries. My first thought, too, but now I think they are too red (meaningless, I know) the spray is not of the correct form and the few leaves I can make out do not look like rowan. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
Graydon wrote: >On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 03:11:05PM +0100, Bob W scripsit: >[snip] >> ...This sort of thing is found a lot where one language group has >> replaced another. The conqueror points to some natural feature and asks >> 'What is that called'. The vanquished native replies 'it is the Don' meaning >> 'it's the river, you idiot'*. The mighty conqueror says 'we shall call it >> the River Don'. And so it flows quietly on. >> >> *This is the meaning of the Ojibwe word Mississippi. > >My favourite of these is Torpenhow Hill. (Tor, Pen, and How all meaning >hill in a succession of languages.) Sort of like Glendale - "glen" and "dale" both words meaning "valley". Or people referring to "lake" Windermere in the Lake District. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
Years ago the state of Maine Natural Resourced Department decided that they would put name signs at the bridges that cross streams. In a effort to be sure the signs represented what the locals called these streams they sent researchers around to gather information. In one case they were told "we don't really have a name, we just always called it the crick". Later that summer the sign went up that said "Crick Creek". On 9/12/2010 9:40 AM, Graydon wrote: On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 03:11:05PM +0100, Bob W scripsit: [snip] ...This sort of thing is found a lot where one language group has replaced another. The conqueror points to some natural feature and asks 'What is that called'. The vanquished native replies 'it is the Don' meaning 'it's the river, you idiot'*. The mighty conqueror says 'we shall call it the River Don'. And so it flows quietly on. *This is the meaning of the Ojibwe word Mississippi. My favourite of these is Torpenhow Hill. (Tor, Pen, and How all meaning hill in a succession of languages.) -- Graydon No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3130 - Release Date: 09/12/10 01:34:00 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Bitter grapes: pure red...
> > Googled etymology of Russian word "ryabina" and it turns out to be different > than you suggest. But no matter. Thank you for your explanation. It is most > interesting. It also proves that normally a person would have only one > mother's tongue or native language, because the knowledge of what you > provided requires very special training unless it is something one gets gratis > from their native language lessons in school. including English I have studied 6 languages to varying degrees, and also did 2 years of linguistics which includes a quick look at various other non-Indo-European languages. I'm very interested in historical linguistics, so I try to keep somewhat up-to-date with it. In my schooldays it was compulsory to take at least one Foreign language up to the age of 13 or 14, but nowadays I don't think any foreign languages are compulsory, which is scandalous in my opinion. B -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Bitter grapes: pure red...
> On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 03:11:05PM +0100, Bob W scripsit: > [snip] > > ...This sort of thing is found a lot where one language group has > > replaced another. The conqueror points to some natural feature and > > asks 'What is that called'. The vanquished native replies 'it is the > > Don' meaning 'it's the river, you idiot'*. The mighty conqueror says > > 'we shall call it the River Don'. And so it flows quietly on. > > > > *This is the meaning of the Ojibwe word Mississippi. > > My favourite of these is Torpenhow Hill. (Tor, Pen, and How all meaning hill > in a succession of languages.) > > -- Graydon a perfect example! I'm looking forward to the day it becomes Mount Torpenhowhill. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 03:11:05PM +0100, Bob W scripsit: [snip] > ...This sort of thing is found a lot where one language group has > replaced another. The conqueror points to some natural feature and asks > 'What is that called'. The vanquished native replies 'it is the Don' meaning > 'it's the river, you idiot'*. The mighty conqueror says 'we shall call it > the River Don'. And so it flows quietly on. > > *This is the meaning of the Ojibwe word Mississippi. My favourite of these is Torpenhow Hill. (Tor, Pen, and How all meaning hill in a succession of languages.) -- Graydon -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On 9/12/2010 4:11 PM, Bob W wrote: A grape is a berry of the vine. the /owa/ part of rowan has the same etymology as the word uva (Latin for grape), related also to oin- as in oinophile from the Greek word, which also gave rise to the English words wine and vine, through French vin, vigne etc. No doubt right back to the proto-Indo-European. Your word ryabina looks to me as though it has a similar etymology as rowan with the /b/ having substituted for /v/ or /w/, which is very common. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some European languages used the same word for both berry and grape. Googled etymology of Russian word "ryabina" and it turns out to be different than you suggest. But no matter. Thank you for your explanation. It is most interesting. It also proves that normally a person would have only one mother's tongue or native language, because the knowledge of what you provided requires very special training unless it is something one gets gratis from their native language lessons in school. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Bitter grapes: pure red...
> On 9/12/2010 1:22 PM, Bob W wrote: > > the correct term in English is rowan berries. > > > > Bob > > Right... > > /scratches his head/ > why do you scratch your head? A grape is a berry of the vine. the /owa/ part of rowan has the same etymology as the word uva (Latin for grape), related also to oin- as in oinophile from the Greek word, which also gave rise to the English words wine and vine, through French vin, vigne etc. No doubt right back to the proto-Indo-European. Your word ryabina looks to me as though it has a similar etymology as rowan with the /b/ having substituted for /v/ or /w/, which is very common. It wouldn't surprise me at all if some European languages used the same word for both berry and grape. Calling it a rowan berry may be one of those great examples of the same meaning being inadvertently repeated in a phrase, in this case being 'berry berry'. This sort of thing is found a lot where one language group has replaced another. The conqueror points to some natural feature and asks 'What is that called'. The vanquished native replies 'it is the Don' meaning 'it's the river, you idiot'*. The mighty conqueror says 'we shall call it the River Don'. And so it flows quietly on. Bob *This is the meaning of the Ojibwe word Mississippi. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
Love the rich colours Dave On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Roman Melihhov wrote: > http://roman.blakout.net/?blog=20100909230908 > > ^ Bitter grapes are in so perfect shape this fall. Perhaps hot summer > and plenty of rain had given boost to these beautiful red bits more than > any other fall I remember. And they taste... well... bitter but I like > dry them and add to my herbal tea mixture or frozen few cans and use for > bakery later... > > > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On 9/12/2010 1:22 PM, Bob W wrote: the correct term in English is rowan berries. Bob Right... /scratches his head/ Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Bitter grapes: pure red...
> On 9/9/2010 11:17 PM, Roman Melihhov wrote: > > http://roman.blakout.net/?blog=20100909230908 > > > > ^ Bitter grapes are in so perfect shape this fall. Perhaps hot summer > > and plenty of rain had given boost to these beautiful red bits more > > than any other fall I remember. And they taste... well... bitter but I > > like dry them and add to my herbal tea mixture or frozen few cans and > > use for bakery later... > > Lovely. Did not know that word in English for good old ryabina :-). the correct term in English is rowan berries. Bob -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On 9/9/2010 11:17 PM, Roman Melihhov wrote: http://roman.blakout.net/?blog=20100909230908 ^ Bitter grapes are in so perfect shape this fall. Perhaps hot summer and plenty of rain had given boost to these beautiful red bits more than any other fall I remember. And they taste... well... bitter but I like dry them and add to my herbal tea mixture or frozen few cans and use for bakery later... Lovely. Did not know that word in English for good old ryabina :-). Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 4:17 PM, Roman Melihhov wrote: > http://roman.blakout.net/?blog=20100909230908 > > ^ Bitter grapes are in so perfect shape this fall. Perhaps hot summer > and plenty of rain had given boost to these beautiful red bits more than > any other fall I remember. And they taste... well... bitter but I like > dry them and add to my herbal tea mixture or frozen few cans and use for > bakery later... Amazing colours! cheers, frank -- "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept." -Henri Cartier-Bresson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
On 9/9/10, Roman Melihhov, discombobulated, unleashed: >http://roman.blakout.net/?blog=20100909230908 > >^ Bitter grapes are in so perfect shape this fall. Perhaps hot summer >and plenty of rain had given boost to these beautiful red bits more than >any other fall I remember. And they taste... well... bitter but I like >dry them and add to my herbal tea mixture or frozen few cans and use for >bakery later... Roman, that's probably one of the best pics you've shown here - well done mate - love the colours. -- Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche -- http://www.cottysnaps.com _ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Bitter grapes: pure red...
Very nice, vibrant colors! -- Walt On 9/9/2010 3:17 PM, Roman Melihhov wrote: http://roman.blakout.net/?blog=20100909230908 ^ Bitter grapes are in so perfect shape this fall. Perhaps hot summer and plenty of rain had given boost to these beautiful red bits more than any other fall I remember. And they taste... well... bitter but I like dry them and add to my herbal tea mixture or frozen few cans and use for bakery later... -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
