Re: Archiving stuff...
got em! thanks rob! t. - Original Message - From: "Rob Studdert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 11:13 AM Subject: Re: Archiving stuff... > On 4 Dec 2003 at 17:34, graywolf wrote: > > > Have you joined the Professional Photographers Association for your area? They > > can help with marketing information and fellowship support. Maybe one of the > > list members from Oz can give you a link. > > The two main Oz bodies: > > http://www.acmp.com.au/ > http://www.aipp.com.au/ > > Rob Studdert > HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA > Tel +61-2-9554-4110 > UTC(GMT) +10 Hours > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ > Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998 >
Re: Marketing one's self (was Re: Archiving stuff...)
Tan; The beginning of wisdom is when you realize wisdom is not how much you know, but realizing how much you don't know. A funny story (now) about photographers who couldn't expose a negative properly: In the early 90's I was working for a lab that had a local wedding photographer as a customer. Allison had gone to a seminar somewhere that told her that the proper way to meter was to take a reading off one's palm and open up 1 stop. Allison was ghost white. She used to shoot Kodak Vericolor (VPS). You may be too young to remember VPS. It was Kodak's professional low contrast wedding/portrait film. VPS had a well deserved reputation for having absolutely no tolerance for under exposure. Most photographers rated it at ISO 80 or 100 (it was a 160 speed film). Her film was constantly underexposed 1½-2 stops. (and we used to run our c-41 a little hot to boot) We would develop and print her order and she would return half the order or more asking us to kick up the colors a bit. I even suggested one time that she take her camera. dress her kids in white, expose a couple of rolls, bracketing heavily, we would process that film for free so she could get a working E.I. that would give her negs that could be printed well. But since the metering technique was from her photographic guru at the time it had to be right, so she never took us up on it. Luckily for us she moved out of the area, as we lost $ every time she walked in. It's the glass half empty or half full syndrome. We see all we have yet to accomplish often missing how far we have already come. Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
Re: Archiving stuff...
Tanya, and whoeverelse is interested. What they (PPA or whatever) usually mean by full time is that your sole souce of income is photography. That is you do not work a regular job and do photography on the side. No one shoots 40 hours a week, unless they are putting in a 120 hour work week (grin). The references from other members who recognise you as a professional is most the important of the requirements, they do not want incompedents using their logo. I can understand that it is hard to meet other members when you are out there in the boonies. Drop around and visit some studios when you are in the city, some will be curmudgeons that don't want the competion you represent, but most will be happy to look at your book and talk about the business with you when they realize you are serious. One of them will probably be willing to sponser you. Anybody in any business should belong to the appropriate professional association. It is important enough that it is always tax deductable. That said, I never belonged to one myself. I realize in my old age that I was stupid not to. -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com "You might as well accept people as they are, you are not going to be able to change them anyway."
Re: Archiving stuff...
- Original Message - From: "tom" Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... > > Actually, that is an interesting point - how > > much time do you > > other Pro photographers actually spend taking photos per week? > > I just did the math and it averages out to 5.5 hours per week. That jives pretty closely to when I was in the game. Generally, a couple or three days a week marketing, a day shooting, and a day sorting pictures, and album building. And printing pretty much every day. William Robb
Re: Archiving stuff...
not as yet, graywolf. just looked into it recently actually, and it is really hard to get accepted. To be an AIPP (Australian Institute of Professional Photographers), you have to been a proven full-time professional photographer for over 2 years, (or have completed a 4 year Bachelors degree in photography), and be nominated by another AIPP member, and THEN have references from two other AIPP members. It also costs a packet - like $500 per year! HOWEVER, they are looking at changing their acceptance requirements so that members may be accepted on approval of a portfolio - I am hoping that they do this, as although I have been WORKING as a photographer for around 3 years now, I have never been full-time, and probably never will be full-time for at least another 5 years when my kids are at school. When I say "full-time" I mean, shooting wise. I probably only actually shoot 2-3 times per week, and then a wedding most weekends. Most of my time is actually taken with post-production work, ordering, bookwork etc. Actually, that is an interesting point - how much time do you other Pro photographers actually spend taking photos per week? Anyways, I am hoping that they do change the AIPP requirements as being where I am, there are no other AIPP members within a 3-4 hour radius, and I would still like to join. The benefits and publicity that is given to the winners of their annual awards is fantastic and could set me up for a very long time to come, should I ever be lucky enough to win any. Plus, I just wanna put some letters after my name... tan. - Original Message - From: "graywolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Archiving stuff... > Hey, emotion is what sells. You obviously understand that, it sometimes is hard > for us grumpy old men to figure out. > > Have you joined the Professional Photographers Association for your area? They > can help with marketing information and fellowship support. Maybe one of the > list members from Oz can give you a link. > > -- > > Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: > > > Obviously, I am totally going for the "human nature", "emotion", "cutesy" > > and "aw" side of things in my marketing, hence the "Imagery With > > Heart" slogan that I've devised. It is true though, as I do LOVE my work > > and put alot of love INTO my work, AND it SEEMS to be WORKING - I too, am > > having alot of return business... I know it is all very "girly" but I guess > > that is just moi... Does any of that makes sense to you grumpy old men out > > there? hehe > > > > tan. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:17 AM > > Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... > > > > > > > >>>-Original Message- > >>>From: Christian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>- Original Message - > >>>From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>> > >>>> I do get return business > >>>>tv > >>> > >>>What does that tell you about the sanctity of marriage in > >>>America? HAR! > >> > >>Actually, it's not a second wedding, it's usually a first child that > >>gets them to call me back. > >> > >>tv > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > graywolf > http://graywolfphoto.com > > "You might as well accept people as they are, > you are not going to be able to change them anyway." > > >
Marketing one's self (was Re: Archiving stuff...)
Harrumph!!! (grumpy enough?) :) Seriously. You market to your strengths. While not wanting to get involved in a battle of the sexes thread, a woman's viewpoint is quite often different then a man's. You are selling your unique viewpoint (i.e. photographer's "eye") and if the way you see and market your vision comes across as cutesy or girly, so be it. A good bit of information given me is that in event photography (weddings etc.) one should hire someone they feel comfortable with, and that should be as important as technical proficiency. >From what I've seen of your work you certainly have good technical proficiency (you wouldn't believe the number of self proclaimed professionals who can't properly expose a negative or compose a small group), so it's your "eye" and your personality that they are hiring. A good return business is a good sign that your marketing is working, though I agree with TV that you should beware of under pricing yourself. It's too easy to have too much work that you are not making an adequate profit from. Philosophies need to be tempered with the realities of running a successful business. Back when I had a membership in the CT PPA there were a few photographers who did wonderfully artistic photography, but their business was marginal at best. Anyone can learn business techniques, no one else has your unique eye. Butch Each man had only one genuine vocation - to find the way to himself. Hermann Hesse (Demian)
Re: Archiving stuff...
On 4 Dec 2003 at 17:34, graywolf wrote: > Have you joined the Professional Photographers Association for your area? They > can help with marketing information and fellowship support. Maybe one of the > list members from Oz can give you a link. The two main Oz bodies: http://www.acmp.com.au/ http://www.aipp.com.au/ Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: Archiving stuff...
Hey, emotion is what sells. You obviously understand that, it sometimes is hard for us grumpy old men to figure out. Have you joined the Professional Photographers Association for your area? They can help with marketing information and fellowship support. Maybe one of the list members from Oz can give you a link. -- Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: Obviously, I am totally going for the "human nature", "emotion", "cutesy" and "aw" side of things in my marketing, hence the "Imagery With Heart" slogan that I've devised. It is true though, as I do LOVE my work and put alot of love INTO my work, AND it SEEMS to be WORKING - I too, am having alot of return business... I know it is all very "girly" but I guess that is just moi... Does any of that makes sense to you grumpy old men out there? hehe tan. - Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:17 AM Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... -Original Message- From: Christian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I do get return business tv What does that tell you about the sanctity of marriage in America? HAR! Actually, it's not a second wedding, it's usually a first child that gets them to call me back. tv -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com "You might as well accept people as they are, you are not going to be able to change them anyway."
Re: Archiving stuff...
You do not have to file by numbers, you can use names. You do need some kind of database to cross reference things. In the old days you would have had a card under babies; see Johnson, Buckmeyer, Smith, ... A database is easier. -- Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: do you guys set up separate areas for different types of jobs? eg a "baby portrait" cabinet, a "wedding" cabinet etc. I am trying to think of the best way to be able to remember where to look for each file. I know that the suggestion has been made to use a database etc, and to file with a number system, but to be honest I am SO not a numbers type of person (as I am sure you have all guessed), and I think I would benefit more from actually sectioning off different spaces for different types of jobs. Just wondering if anyone else has worked this way and it it worked for them? tan. - Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:04 AM Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... -Original Message- From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] As long as you are doing "people" photography filing by cutomer name is OK. In commercial work the files get too big, so it is better to file by job-number and keep a database that cross references customers to their jobs. Just to clarify, I file by job, not client. Usually it's one job per client, but I do get return business and each shoot gets a bag. tv -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com "You might as well accept people as they are, you are not going to be able to change them anyway."
RE: Archiving stuff...
> -Original Message- > From: Tanya Mayer Photography [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > do you guys set up separate areas for different types of > jobs? eg a "baby > portrait" cabinet, a "wedding" cabinet etc. I am trying to > think of the > best way to be able to remember where to look for each file. No, it's by client name. If I do 6 jobs for a client they're all right next to each other, which is where I want them to be. Personally, I'm just lazy. I'm naturally disorganized. I don't want to set up a DB, or a file numbering system, I just want to be able to find the stuff I need to find. That's the whole point right? You need to pull some negs or a contract, you want where it is. If something comes in, it goes in the bag. If I need to find something for a client, I know it's in the bag, or in the client's folder in Outlook. tv
Re: Archiving stuff...
do you guys set up separate areas for different types of jobs? eg a "baby portrait" cabinet, a "wedding" cabinet etc. I am trying to think of the best way to be able to remember where to look for each file. I know that the suggestion has been made to use a database etc, and to file with a number system, but to be honest I am SO not a numbers type of person (as I am sure you have all guessed), and I think I would benefit more from actually sectioning off different spaces for different types of jobs. Just wondering if anyone else has worked this way and it it worked for them? tan. - Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:04 AM Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... > > -Original Message- > > From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > As long as you are doing "people" photography filing by > > cutomer name is OK. In > > commercial work the files get too big, so it is better to > > file by job-number and > > keep a database that cross references customers to their jobs. > > Just to clarify, I file by job, not client. Usually it's one job per > client, but I do get return business and each shoot gets a bag. > > tv > > > > >
Re: Archiving stuff...
me too tom, and that is exactly the way i am marketing my business, as you will see on my website. I am trying to cover their entire lives as one "story" eg. engagement portraits, wedding portraiture, pregnancy, new baby, family portrait etc. Here is the (very rough) start of one that I just put up yesterday... And I have a couple more to add in the next week or so http://www.tanyamayer.com/sally.html Obviously, I am totally going for the "human nature", "emotion", "cutesy" and "aw" side of things in my marketing, hence the "Imagery With Heart" slogan that I've devised. It is true though, as I do LOVE my work and put alot of love INTO my work, AND it SEEMS to be WORKING - I too, am having alot of return business... I know it is all very "girly" but I guess that is just moi... Does any of that makes sense to you grumpy old men out there? hehe tan. - Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2003 5:17 AM Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... > > -Original Message- > > From: Christian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > I do get return business > > > tv > > > > What does that tell you about the sanctity of marriage in > > America? HAR! > > Actually, it's not a second wedding, it's usually a first child that > gets them to call me back. > > tv > > >
RE: Archiving stuff...
> -Original Message- > From: Christian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - Original Message - > From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > I do get return business > > tv > > What does that tell you about the sanctity of marriage in > America? HAR! Actually, it's not a second wedding, it's usually a first child that gets them to call me back. tv
Re: Archiving stuff...
- Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I do get return business > tv What does that tell you about the sanctity of marriage in America? HAR! Christian
RE: Archiving stuff...
> -Original Message- > From: graywolf [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > As long as you are doing "people" photography filing by > cutomer name is OK. In > commercial work the files get too big, so it is better to > file by job-number and > keep a database that cross references customers to their jobs. Just to clarify, I file by job, not client. Usually it's one job per client, but I do get return business and each shoot gets a bag. tv
Re: Archiving stuff...
As long as you are doing "people" photography filing by cutomer name is OK. In commercial work the files get too big, so it is better to file by job-number and keep a database that cross references customers to their jobs. The fact is the longer you are in business the more file space you need, you simply add file cabinets. That is another reason for pro's going 100% digital, CD's or DVD's simply take up less space. You can even archive your paperwork on CD's and just keep the current year paper in a file cabinet. Legally you only have to keep paperwork for 7 years, so you won't have to worry about re-achiving it from the CD's. -- Tanya Mayer Photography wrote: Thankyou to everyone who has responded to this, you have all helped me out no -end. Tom, I was most interested to see your "bag" system. I do exactly the same, but using large A4 sized envelopes. So, I must be on the right track somewhere. I also like Leon's idea of the database and also the easy numbering system suggested by Bob. I already have a large filing cabinet and this is where I place each clients envelope (in alphabetical order), I also have a checklist attached to the wall above the cabinet that I check off before I file the envelope to ensure that everything is in there. BUT, the filing cabinet is already becoming too small so I was considering moving on to "better" things, but as I seem to be "on par" with the system that I am already developing I think I'll just install a couple of small changes and continue on my merry way... Tom, thanks particularly for taking the time to post a pic of your system. I really do appreciate your help. I totally "hear" you about the confusion with order forms/contracts etc, that is exactly why I posted my question as I have found myself really swamped by this type of thing in the past few days as work continues to escalate. Many thanks again guys, tan. - Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 10:27 AM Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... -Original Message- From: Tanya Mayer Photography [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ok, so another question (full of them aren't i?!) - the recent increase in my workload, has also brought about another issue for me - that of storage. I am wanting to adopt a fail proof way of filing and storing negatives and cds so that they are a) easily accessible b) don't take up too much room c) secure from grubby little 1 year old fingers d) easy to refer to with regards to client orders etc. I wrestled with this one for a while. I decided I could do all of the above except save space. I have flat 8x10 ziplocs, which get an 8x10 cardboard insert. When I get hired, the contract and questionnaire go in there, along with a label on the front with the name and date of the event. After the event, my first dvd dump goes in the bag. Film used to go in the bag, and *that* took up some space, but the files are starting to thin out now that I'm all digital. Of course I now have 2 250 gig external drives, but that's another matter... After I get it edited down on the pc, the final edit gets cut to dvd and placed in the bag. The old dvd goes offsite. When someone places an order, I pull the bag and it goes into an "active" crate. I print a copy of the order (and an index image) and place it in the bag. I do this for every sort of gig. It does take up a bit of space: http://www.bigdayphoto.com/images/files.jpg I have 3 more milk crates of inactive files. I decided that I was spending too much time keeping track of negs, contracts and order forms. Now, everything goes in the bag. I'm *so* much more organized, I'm actually getting orders done when I say they'll get done. tv -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com "You might as well accept people as they are, you are not going to be able to change them anyway."
Re: Archiving stuff...
Thankyou to everyone who has responded to this, you have all helped me out no -end. Tom, I was most interested to see your "bag" system. I do exactly the same, but using large A4 sized envelopes. So, I must be on the right track somewhere. I also like Leon's idea of the database and also the easy numbering system suggested by Bob. I already have a large filing cabinet and this is where I place each clients envelope (in alphabetical order), I also have a checklist attached to the wall above the cabinet that I check off before I file the envelope to ensure that everything is in there. BUT, the filing cabinet is already becoming too small so I was considering moving on to "better" things, but as I seem to be "on par" with the system that I am already developing I think I'll just install a couple of small changes and continue on my merry way... Tom, thanks particularly for taking the time to post a pic of your system. I really do appreciate your help. I totally "hear" you about the confusion with order forms/contracts etc, that is exactly why I posted my question as I have found myself really swamped by this type of thing in the past few days as work continues to escalate. Many thanks again guys, tan. - Original Message - From: "tom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 10:27 AM Subject: RE: Archiving stuff... > > -Original Message- > > From: Tanya Mayer Photography [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Ok, so another question (full of them aren't i?!) - the > > recent increase in > > my workload, has also brought about another issue for me - > > that of storage. > > I am wanting to adopt a fail proof way of filing and > > storing negatives and > > cds so that they are a) easily accessible b) don't take up > > too much room c) > > secure from grubby little 1 year old fingers d) easy > > to refer to with > > regards to client orders etc. > > I wrestled with this one for a while. I decided I could do all of the > above except save space. > > I have flat 8x10 ziplocs, which get an 8x10 cardboard insert. When I > get hired, the contract and questionnaire go in there, along with a > label on the front with the name and date of the event. > > After the event, my first dvd dump goes in the bag. Film used to go in > the bag, and *that* took up some space, but the files are starting to > thin out now that I'm all digital. Of course I now have 2 250 gig > external drives, but that's another matter... > > After I get it edited down on the pc, the final edit gets cut to dvd > and placed in the bag. The old dvd goes offsite. > > When someone places an order, I pull the bag and it goes into an > "active" crate. I print a copy of the order (and an index image) and > place it in the bag. > > I do this for every sort of gig. > > It does take up a bit of space: > > http://www.bigdayphoto.com/images/files.jpg > > I have 3 more milk crates of inactive files. > > I decided that I was spending too much time keeping track of negs, > contracts and order forms. Now, everything goes in the bag. I'm *so* > much more organized, I'm actually getting orders done when I say > they'll get done. > > tv > > > >
Re: Archiving stuff...
I forgot to add: One of the things I have found very useful is having a very quick way to see all of my work at once! Well, yes you can. I use a small app called 'Lightbox'. I load all my camera originals into it, but I get the app not to copy the full-size files across, just the thumbnails. This way, I can open Lightbox, and instantly see thousands of 'negs' on the lightbox-style interface just by clicking on a folder on the left, and scrolling through the shots. Clickin on any one brings up the (EXIF) data so I know where the original is (on CD) and other stiff like date, exposure, etc. Sometimes it's nice just to trawl through looking for something that I know I shot but didn't get archived in the database properly or got missed, or whatever. The downside is that opening the app takes 30 seconds as 7000 thumbnails load. It's not ideal but works for now... Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=| www.macads.co.uk/snaps _ Free UK Mac Ads www.macads.co.uk
