Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Mark, thank you very much for your thoughts. It's encouraging to know that you are able to make pttl work for you, even at close range... Your comment: On overcast cloudy days I may set the flash compensation to -3 and the compensation on the camera body to -2. Raises another question for me, though... How do the flash compensation controls on the the flash and camera work together? Or separately, for that matter? When applying compensation in both places, it sounds from your description that they have a cumulative effect (-5 EV?)... As opposed to one set of controls taking precedence over the other... Is this correct? If using just the compensation controls in one place or the other, is either more effective? Thanks again, -c On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Mark Cassino markcass...@ymail.com wrote: Hi Christine - I use fill PTTL fill flash in my macro shots all the time - virtually every shot that I work with is shot with flash. No problems once you know how to adjust the flash etc. I shoot manually with the exposure usually set to the ambient meter reading or to -1/2 stop. The amount of fill needed is relative to the primarily light source. In direct full brutal sun I shoot with no exposure compensation on the flash. On overcast cloudy days I may set the flash compensation to -3 and the compensation on the camera body to -2. In some situations I have to resort to lowering the power on the flash by dropping the wide angle diffuser or putting a diffuser on it. But those cases are very low light situations where the subject is very close. After doing this for a while I now just know where to set things - just experiment a bit. Digital makes the technical end of photography so easy I use the same basic technique for macros, birds, and even outdoor portraits. For wildlife it is split second decision making and having the flash compensation in the body is a great asset. If you put the flash on a bracket or use a diffuser etc it just equates to a certain number of stops of compensation, so you just consider that in your mental calculations... Like In this soft light I'd like to have -4 stops of compensation but that diffuser is equivalent to -2 so I'll just dial in -2. I'm working with the flash generally much closer than the minimum working distance - like the subject is 12 to 24 inches away - so overexposure is always a problem. I've used the same basic setup with the Pz-1p (usually with slide film), *ist-D, K-10D, and now K7. Each camera had it's own quirks and I had to adjust the exposure compensation for each. I find that I dial in much more negative compensation with the K7 than I did with any of the other cameras. Good luck! MCC - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: Can we talk about fill flash pttl? Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Hi Dario, Thanks for your many replies! :) I think you were on track in your first reply -- it was still very bright out, and the camera, set to AV, wanted a fast shutter speed (1/500 +), even at ISO 200. After my first shot, I smacked my forehead and realized high speed synch would be the way to go...but then I still had problems... I suppose I could have stopped down some more, but I was afraid of loosing a nicely-blurred background... Looks like I'm going back to school on pttl flash this summer. I really appreciate yours everyone else's thoughts on the subject! :) -c On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: Christine, In case of low-light shooting, I find the best way for using flash is to set the camera in M mode for exposing the environment and then add some flash for the main subject in the foreground. Also try spot metering, especially in case of a small subject against a wide underexposed background. Cheers, Dario I mean in this case the flash operation can be set to P-TTL. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Hi Christine - Just a comment - at the maximum X-Synch speed and slower, changing the shutter speed only affects the ambient lighting. It has no affect on the flash - only aperture affects flash. I think there is some affect with high speed synch. MCC - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 11:52 AM Subject: Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl? Hi Dario, Thanks for your many replies! :) I think you were on track in your first reply -- it was still very bright out, and the camera, set to AV, wanted a fast shutter speed (1/500 +), even at ISO 200. After my first shot, I smacked my forehead and realized high speed synch would be the way to go...but then I still had problems... I suppose I could have stopped down some more, but I was afraid of loosing a nicely-blurred background... Looks like I'm going back to school on pttl flash this summer. I really appreciate yours everyone else's thoughts on the subject! :) -c On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:50 PM, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: Christine, In case of low-light shooting, I find the best way for using flash is to set the camera in M mode for exposing the environment and then add some flash for the main subject in the foreground. Also try spot metering, especially in case of a small subject against a wide underexposed background. Cheers, Dario I mean in this case the flash operation can be set to P-TTL. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Just my own testing - but the two controls seem to be cumulative. At -2 on the body and -3 on the unit, flash is less powerful than -3 on the unit alone. I usually set the unit to -2 or -3 and fine tune with body compensation - which can also mean dialing in +1 on the body. Here are two macro shots that show the impact of the fill flash - http://www.markcassino.com/temp/pdml/IMGP4143.jpg http://www.markcassino.com/temp/pdml/IMGP4145.jpg The first one had flash with -3 on the unit and (I think) -1 on the body. I had a diffuser on the flash but was using a bracket that put the flash unit pretty close to the subject. The second one had no flash - the batteries were cycling. I processed the raw files identically except that for the second shot I pushed the 'fill light' setting in Adobe Camera Raw as far as I could before the shadows got noisy. But, as you can see, the flash makes a big difference - I think the first shot is actually a little over flashed and I should have pushed in a little more negative compensation or set the flash zoom level to wide angle... - MCC - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2011 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl? Mark, thank you very much for your thoughts. It's encouraging to know that you are able to make pttl work for you, even at close range... Your comment: On overcast cloudy days I may set the flash compensation to -3 and the compensation on the camera body to -2. Raises another question for me, though... How do the flash compensation controls on the the flash and camera work together? Or separately, for that matter? When applying compensation in both places, it sounds from your description that they have a cumulative effect (-5 EV?)... As opposed to one set of controls taking precedence over the other... Is this correct? If using just the compensation controls in one place or the other, is either more effective? Thanks again, -c On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 11:03 AM, Mark Cassino markcass...@ymail.com wrote: Hi Christine - I use fill PTTL fill flash in my macro shots all the time - virtually every shot that I work with is shot with flash. No problems once you know how to adjust the flash etc. I shoot manually with the exposure usually set to the ambient meter reading or to -1/2 stop. The amount of fill needed is relative to the primarily light source. In direct full brutal sun I shoot with no exposure compensation on the flash. On overcast cloudy days I may set the flash compensation to -3 and the compensation on the camera body to -2. In some situations I have to resort to lowering the power on the flash by dropping the wide angle diffuser or putting a diffuser on it. But those cases are very low light situations where the subject is very close. After doing this for a while I now just know where to set things - just experiment a bit. Digital makes the technical end of photography so easy I use the same basic technique for macros, birds, and even outdoor portraits. For wildlife it is split second decision making and having the flash compensation in the body is a great asset. If you put the flash on a bracket or use a diffuser etc it just equates to a certain number of stops of compensation, so you just consider that in your mental calculations... Like In this soft light I'd like to have -4 stops of compensation but that diffuser is equivalent to -2 so I'll just dial in -2. I'm working with the flash generally much closer than the minimum working distance - like the subject is 12 to 24 inches away - so overexposure is always a problem. I've used the same basic setup with the Pz-1p (usually with slide film), *ist-D, K-10D, and now K7. Each camera had it's own quirks and I had to adjust the exposure compensation for each. I find that I dial in much more negative compensation with the K7 than I did with any of the other cameras. Good luck! MCC - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: Can we talk about fill flash pttl? Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On 11-07-17 11:52 AM, Christine Nielsen wrote: Hi Dario, Thanks for your many replies! :) I think you were on track in your first reply -- it was still very bright out, and the camera, set to AV, wanted a fast shutter speed (1/500 +), even at ISO 200. After my first shot, I smacked my forehead and realized high speed synch would be the way to go...but then I still had problems... I suppose I could have stopped down some more, but I was afraid of loosing a nicely-blurred background... Sometimes you need to slap on an ND filter to reduce the ambient by a few stops so you can keep your wide open aperture. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Hi Christine - I use fill PTTL fill flash in my macro shots all the time - virtually every shot that I work with is shot with flash. No problems once you know how to adjust the flash etc. I shoot manually with the exposure usually set to the ambient meter reading or to -1/2 stop. The amount of fill needed is relative to the primarily light source. In direct full brutal sun I shoot with no exposure compensation on the flash. On overcast cloudy days I may set the flash compensation to -3 and the compensation on the camera body to -2. In some situations I have to resort to lowering the power on the flash by dropping the wide angle diffuser or putting a diffuser on it. But those cases are very low light situations where the subject is very close. After doing this for a while I now just know where to set things - just experiment a bit. Digital makes the technical end of photography so easy I use the same basic technique for macros, birds, and even outdoor portraits. For wildlife it is split second decision making and having the flash compensation in the body is a great asset. If you put the flash on a bracket or use a diffuser etc it just equates to a certain number of stops of compensation, so you just consider that in your mental calculations... Like In this soft light I'd like to have -4 stops of compensation but that diffuser is equivalent to -2 so I'll just dial in -2. I'm working with the flash generally much closer than the minimum working distance - like the subject is 12 to 24 inches away - so overexposure is always a problem. I've used the same basic setup with the Pz-1p (usually with slide film), *ist-D, K-10D, and now K7. Each camera had it's own quirks and I had to adjust the exposure compensation for each. I find that I dial in much more negative compensation with the K7 than I did with any of the other cameras. Good luck! MCC - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:11 AM Subject: Can we talk about fill flash pttl? Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Christine Nielsen wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Christine, I don't think the P-TTL works perfectly (far from that!), but the bad problem you are reporting usually happens when you use aperture priority and have aperture ISO settings so that he camera would use fast shutter speeds (e.g. 1/500 sec) in bright sunlight. At that point, by activating the flash, you force the shutter speed to say /1/160 sec (or slower, in case of camera/flash set to slow-speed synch) and that's enough for getting bad overexposure, with the added flash light on top of it. It happened to me and that's the reason for the mess. When using the flash for compensating backlight, check that the shutter speed set by the flash activation won't overexpose available light! In case, either change aperture/ISO or set high-speed synch. Cheers, Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
I wrote: Christine, I don't think the P-TTL works perfectly (far from that!), but the bad problem you are reporting usually happens when you use aperture priority and have aperture ISO settings so that he camera would use fast shutter speeds (e.g. 1/500 sec) in bright sunlight. At that point, by activating the flash, you force the shutter speed to say /1/160 sec (or slower, in case of camera/flash set to slow-speed synch) and that's enough for getting bad overexposure, with the added flash light on top of it. It happened to me and that's the reason for the mess. When using the flash for compensating backlight, check that the shutter speed set by the flash activation won't overexpose available light! In case, either change aperture/ISO or set high-speed synch. Hmmm... perhaps that's not the problem, since you wrote it happened at the end of the day. Hower, check the aperture/ISO settings in use, just in case... Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Christine, In case of low-light shooting, I find the best way for using flash is to set the camera in M mode for exposing the environment and then add some flash for the main subject in the foreground. Also try spot metering, especially in case of a small subject against a wide underexposed background. Cheers, Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Christine, In case of low-light shooting, I find the best way for using flash is to set the camera in M mode for exposing the environment and then add some flash for the main subject in the foreground. Also try spot metering, especially in case of a small subject against a wide underexposed background. Cheers, Dario I mean in this case the flash operation can be set to P-TTL. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Hi Christine, Can I ask what lens you were using? I had this sort of problem using an A lens. It improved when I set the focal length for the shake reduction (don't ask me why), though it was still not correct it was then controlable. Leon On 14 July 2011 01:11, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
I was using the DA* 50-135... -c On Jul 14, 2011, at 4:55 AM, Leon Altoff leon.alt...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Christine, Can I ask what lens you were using? I had this sort of problem using an A lens. It improved when I set the focal length for the shake reduction (don't ask me why), though it was still not correct it was then controlable. Leon On 14 July 2011 01:11, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:11, Christine Nielsen wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Much my experience as well, sadly. I think the problem is that we're using Pentax gear. :-( k7 is much BETTER than the K10D for this kind of thing, but it is still far from perfect. I have the same combo with the same problems. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On 11-07-13 11:11 AM, Christine Nielsen wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, -c Unhappily, yeah, P-TTL is easily freaked-out by the light conditions. I've had it work, so it *can*, but under extremes, and I think back light is a Pentax extreme, it won't. But where were you applying the -1.5 comp: on the K-7 itself (ie in the flash menu), or on the back of the flash? This makes a big difference. I find that applying exp comp on the flash generally works better then on the camera. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: But where were you applying the -1.5 comp: on the K-7 itself (ie in the flash menu), or on the back of the flash? This makes a big difference. I find that applying exp comp on the flash generally works better then on the camera. I know for sure I did it on the camera, and I'm pretty sure I tried it on the flash as one of the many variants I applied... but I'll keep that in mind... thx. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Charles Robinson charl...@visi.com wrote: Much my experience as well, sadly. I think the problem is that we're using Pentax gear. :-( k7 is much BETTER than the K10D for this kind of thing, but it is still far from perfect. I have the same combo with the same problems. Groan. I was hoping for a user error diagnosis... ;) -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
RE: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
From: Christine Nielsen Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, I don't think you're doing anything wrong. I've had the same problems using pttl and the AF540 for fill. The other problem I've had with the AF540 is you can't set it the way you want it and have it stay there. If it powers down, it reverts to full power when you wake it back up. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3761 - Release Date: 07/12/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
I have/had the same problems with my K10D. Each shot was different and i spent more time fiddling that shooting. The CLS system Nikon has works a lot better for me with way less fiddle time. Usually set and shoot. Therefore when flash is needed for any of my photos the D200 and SB800 come along. Even the D200 pop up is more accurate than the Pentax system IMO. Dave On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
What shutter speed did the camera select. My habit is setting the sync to slow speed sync or the camera in M mode. If the meter wants 1/60 and the sync speed is normal the camera selects 1/125 or 1/180 and the flash suddenly is the primary light source. Toine On Wednesday, 13 July 2011, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
I see questions like this quite often when I'm teaching workshops, from people with all different kinds of camera-flash systems. If you want to understand using a dedicated, auto-metering flash system like this, see Joe McNally's books, workshops and videos. They're based on Nikon equipment and their iTTL system, likely the best in the business, but the principles apply to any dedicated flash automation setup. Rick Sammon recently did a similar book based around the Canon E-TTL flash system, it's probably in the same ballpark. Those who prefer simpler, more basic flash use should look into the Strobist world for tutorials and ideas. http://strobist.blogspot.com/ I've been using flash illumination, for fill, main light, multi-light setups etc, since the 1970s. To me, all these dedicated autoflash systems are on the one hand a great convenience for some things and a huge handicap for other things. To me, understanding how they work and how to control lighting with them is often more work than understanding how to use a simple, basic, manual flash system. Even when I was shooting film, I preferred manual flash systems. With digital, it's such a piece of cake I don't understand the need for all the complexity of a dedicated autoflash system. Proper exposure is a combination of knowing what your intent is, a few simple things about the light sources you're using, and understanding how to manipulate the camera settings and the flash unit to produce the results desired. If the main light is the flash: - Aperture controls the focus zone. - ISO and exposure time @ an aperture setting control how much ambient light fill you get. - Distance and flash output control the intensity of the main light. If the main light is ambient and the flash is used for fill: - The rules above apply but you consider the ambient light as the main source and reduce flash illumination relative to it. When I do use TTL flash automation systems for fill flash, I find the only way to get consistent results with almost any camera and flash system is to: - Set camera to Manual exposure - Pick an ISO, aperture and exposure time to give appropriately correct main light exposure for the subject - Set the Flash EV-compensation control to work in the correct range, typically -2 to -1.3 EV is about right. This puts the burden of the flash exposure on the camera and flash unit, balancing against the ambient light setting which is fixed and manual. Using high speed sync options of the flash system is often called for if you're working in bright sunlight because you have a lot more flexibility on exposure time that way (not lmited to X-sync shutter time setting). You need to be sensitive to the limits of the flash automation system ... how much power does the flash unit have at most in the mode you're using, how *little* power can it be throttled back to on automatic, etc ... and adjust ISO settings, aperture setting, and distance to the flash to suit those limitations. (The only real difference when using auto-TTL metering when doing this and working the flash exposure by manual power settings is that the flash unit will automatically accommodate minor changes in subject reflectivity and distance, rather than you having to adjust the power output and position of the flash constantly.) It's not hard to do, and with a digital camera and immediate capability to evaluate what an exposure has done by going to review and looking at the histogram for the captures it makes the setup operation consistent and foolproof for any lighting situation. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Jul 13, 2011, at 10:57, David J Brooks wrote: Therefore when flash is needed for any of my photos the D200 and SB800 come along. Even the D200 pop up is more accurate than the Pentax system IMO. Frankly, even the K-7 popup is more accurate in fill-flash conditions than the AF540 (on the K-7) is. Sadness. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On 13/07/2011 9:11 AM, Christine Nielsen wrote: What am I doing wrong? Pentax TTL flash control has always been pretty awful. To this day, I still set everything manually and use a big dumb auto flash that uses a PC cord to attach to the camera. It's sad when a 25 year old flash using 60 year old technology to tell it when to fire is more reliable than what was made last week, but there you have it. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Thanks for your reply, Godfrey. Everything you said syncs with everything I've been taught about using flash... And your recommendation: When I do use TTL flash automation systems for fill flash, I find the only way to get consistent results with almost any camera and flash system is to: - Set camera to Manual exposure - Pick an ISO, aperture and exposure time to give appropriately correct main light exposure for the subject - Set the Flash EV-compensation control to work in the correct range, typically -2 to -1.3 EV is about right. Is 'zactly what I did. (manual exposure/ pttl flash/ -1.5 to -2EV/ hss was one of my iterations) Still, I got uneven results. Now, maybe I still goofed in setting the flash EV in camera rather than on the unit... or in any number of other ways... I hold onto hope for user error, but the (anecdotal) evidence on the other side is mounting. And when looking for guidance from the (Canikon-wielding) workshop leader? Oh, don't ask me about flash!! I just set it on AUTO go! Heehee!!! Maddening. Oh well. I'm happy that I'm at least comfortable enough navigating with a manual flash until I get this sorted out. Thanks again, -c On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi gdigio...@gmail.com wrote: I see questions like this quite often when I'm teaching workshops, from people with all different kinds of camera-flash systems. If you want to understand using a dedicated, auto-metering flash system like this, see Joe McNally's books, workshops and videos. They're based on Nikon equipment and their iTTL system, likely the best in the business, but the principles apply to any dedicated flash automation setup. Rick Sammon recently did a similar book based around the Canon E-TTL flash system, it's probably in the same ballpark. Those who prefer simpler, more basic flash use should look into the Strobist world for tutorials and ideas. http://strobist.blogspot.com/ I've been using flash illumination, for fill, main light, multi-light setups etc, since the 1970s. To me, all these dedicated autoflash systems are on the one hand a great convenience for some things and a huge handicap for other things. To me, understanding how they work and how to control lighting with them is often more work than understanding how to use a simple, basic, manual flash system. Even when I was shooting film, I preferred manual flash systems. With digital, it's such a piece of cake I don't understand the need for all the complexity of a dedicated autoflash system. Proper exposure is a combination of knowing what your intent is, a few simple things about the light sources you're using, and understanding how to manipulate the camera settings and the flash unit to produce the results desired. If the main light is the flash: - Aperture controls the focus zone. - ISO and exposure time @ an aperture setting control how much ambient light fill you get. - Distance and flash output control the intensity of the main light. If the main light is ambient and the flash is used for fill: - The rules above apply but you consider the ambient light as the main source and reduce flash illumination relative to it. When I do use TTL flash automation systems for fill flash, I find the only way to get consistent results with almost any camera and flash system is to: - Set camera to Manual exposure - Pick an ISO, aperture and exposure time to give appropriately correct main light exposure for the subject - Set the Flash EV-compensation control to work in the correct range, typically -2 to -1.3 EV is about right. This puts the burden of the flash exposure on the camera and flash unit, balancing against the ambient light setting which is fixed and manual. Using high speed sync options of the flash system is often called for if you're working in bright sunlight because you have a lot more flexibility on exposure time that way (not lmited to X-sync shutter time setting). You need to be sensitive to the limits of the flash automation system ... how much power does the flash unit have at most in the mode you're using, how *little* power can it be throttled back to on automatic, etc ... and adjust ISO settings, aperture setting, and distance to the flash to suit those limitations. (The only real difference when using auto-TTL metering when doing this and working the flash exposure by manual power settings is that the flash unit will automatically accommodate minor changes in subject reflectivity and distance, rather than you having to adjust the power output and position of the flash constantly.) It's not hard to do, and with a digital camera and immediate capability to evaluate what an exposure has done by going to review and looking at the histogram for the captures it makes the setup operation consistent and foolproof for any lighting situation. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but I usually have no problem getting the AF540 to work as fill. In daylight, you do have to use high speed synch mode of course, and the flash will revert to a 1/180th shutter speed if you don't override it. I generally use program P mode on the K-5 and set the shutter speed up to a value that works with the stop and ISO I want -- quite often 1/500th, f5.6 and ISO 200 in backlit or crosslit conditions in daylight. I usually set the exposure comp on the flash to -.5 or -1, depending on the amount of fill I want. I have occasionally experienced strange exposure problems, but generally this technique works for me. Paul On Jul 13, 2011, at 11:57 AM, Toine wrote: What shutter speed did the camera select. My habit is setting the sync to slow speed sync or the camera in M mode. If the meter wants 1/60 and the sync speed is normal the camera selects 1/125 or 1/180 and the flash suddenly is the primary light source. Toine On Wednesday, 13 July 2011, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: The other problem I've had with the AF540 is you can't set it the way you want it and have it stay there. If it powers down, it reverts to full power when you wake it back up. Funny, there's a problem I haven't had. I often use my 540 360, together, on manual settings, as studio strobes for product photography. I can set them up, work for a while, leave them to power off on their own, and then return the next day they're on the same settings as before when they power up. Go figure! :) -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wednesday, July 13, 2011, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: ... Is 'zactly what I did. (manual exposure/ pttl flash/ -1.5 to -2EV/ hss was one of my iterations) Still, I got uneven results. Now, maybe I still goofed in setting the flash EV in camera rather than on the unit... or in any number of other ways... Usually when that happens in TTL-auto, the reason is that you are too close and/or at too high an ISO setting for the flash to be able to accommodate the desired exposure by throttling down the power. flash units typically have a pretty limited range of auto adjustment to work with at closer distances, which is where a lot of diffuser material can help quite a bit, by cutting the total light output hitting the subject substantially. Even manual control has limits in this regard ... I never go anywhere with my flash kit without some kind of diffuser materials to spread and cut the light output. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Jul 13, 2011, at 12:05, Christine Nielsen wrote: On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: The other problem I've had with the AF540 is you can't set it the way you want it and have it stay there. If it powers down, it reverts to full power when you wake it back up. Funny, there's a problem I haven't had. I often use my 540 360, together, on manual settings, as studio strobes for product photography. I can set them up, work for a while, leave them to power off on their own, and then return the next day they're on the same settings as before when they power up. Go figure! So they're off-camera? I think therein lies the diff. If if goes to sleep while plugged into the PTTL connection (ie, hotshoe) on the camera, waking it up will set it to PTTL mode. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On 11-07-13 1:15 PM, Charles Robinson wrote: On Jul 13, 2011, at 12:05, Christine Nielsen wrote: On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, John Sessomsjsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: The other problem I've had with the AF540 is you can't set it the way you want it and have it stay there. If it powers down, it reverts to full power when you wake it back up. Funny, there's a problem I haven't had. I often use my 540 360, together, on manual settings, as studio strobes for product photography. I can set them up, work for a while, leave them to power off on their own, and then return the next day they're on the same settings as before when they power up. Go figure! So they're off-camera? I think therein lies the diff. If if goes to sleep while plugged into the PTTL connection (ie, hotshoe) on the camera, waking it up will set it to PTTL mode. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson And it's worth noting that these flashes, when set to wireless slaves, will not power off until after an hour of non-use. So you don't tend to ever see the revert to default P-TTL behaviour when working with remotes. Think of it as Pentax reminding you the off-camera flash is to be preferred. :-) -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi gdigio...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, July 13, 2011, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: ... Is 'zactly what I did. (manual exposure/ pttl flash/ -1.5 to -2EV/ hss was one of my iterations) Still, I got uneven results. Now, maybe I still goofed in setting the flash EV in camera rather than on the unit... or in any number of other ways... Usually when that happens in TTL-auto, the reason is that you are too close and/or at too high an ISO setting for the flash to be able to accommodate the desired exposure by throttling down the power. flash units typically have a pretty limited range of auto adjustment to work with at closer distances, which is where a lot of diffuser material can help quite a bit, by cutting the total light output hitting the subject substantially. Even manual control has limits in this regard ... I never go anywhere with my flash kit without some kind of diffuser materials to spread and cut the light output. Distance may have been a factor. We were in fairly tight quarters, huddled in the shade of the lighthouse... Bear with me for one more question? When you say diffuser, what do you mean in this situation? I use diffusers all the time with off-camera flash, but on-camera, what do you prefer? I have resisted purchasing the sto-fen/tupperware-type accessories, but maybe they are worth a look...? (ok, so that was 3 questions...) :) -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:23 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: And it's worth noting that these flashes, when set to wireless slaves, will not power off until after an hour of non-use. So you don't tend to ever see the revert to default P-TTL behaviour when working with remotes. Think of it as Pentax reminding you the off-camera flash is to be preferred. :-) Ah. Well, there you go. ;) -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:04 PM, Paul Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote: I'm not sure what you're doing wrong, but I usually have no problem getting the AF540 to work as fill. In daylight, you do have to use high speed synch mode of course, and the flash will revert to a 1/180th shutter speed if you don't override it. I generally use program P mode on the K-5 and set the shutter speed up to a value that works with the stop and ISO I want -- quite often 1/500th, f5.6 and ISO 200 in backlit or crosslit conditions in daylight. I usually set the exposure comp on the flash to -.5 or -1, depending on the amount of fill I want. I have occasionally experienced strange exposure problems, but generally this technique works for me. Paul Hmm. Thanks for your thoughts, Paul. I hardly ever use program mode... no reason really, just don't... but I'll give your method a try. A dumb question, maybe, but when you set high-speed sync, do you set it on the flash itself and/or in the menu of the camera? I was having difficulty over-riding the shutter speed before I went to M... Thanks, -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
The ceiling can be used as a diffuser, and there are diffusers that clip onto the flash or fit over the head. The 540 also has a mini bounce card and diffuser built in. But I use a Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce most of the time for any work where I'm closer than 15 feet or so. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/160596-REG/Sto_Fen_OM_MZ40_OM_MZ40_Omni_Bounce.html I also use a fong lumisphere on occasion. It provides more diffusion than the omni-bounce but also kills more light. As I mentioned in a previous post, when in daylight, you'll almost always have to use high-speed synch to get a good exposure, and you have to take care that the camera doesn't revert to 1/180th shutter speed when you turn the flash on. Paul On Jul 13, 2011, at 2:50 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote: On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 1:11 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi gdigio...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, July 13, 2011, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: ... Is 'zactly what I did. (manual exposure/ pttl flash/ -1.5 to -2EV/ hss was one of my iterations) Still, I got uneven results. Now, maybe I still goofed in setting the flash EV in camera rather than on the unit... or in any number of other ways... Usually when that happens in TTL-auto, the reason is that you are too close and/or at too high an ISO setting for the flash to be able to accommodate the desired exposure by throttling down the power. flash units typically have a pretty limited range of auto adjustment to work with at closer distances, which is where a lot of diffuser material can help quite a bit, by cutting the total light output hitting the subject substantially. Even manual control has limits in this regard ... I never go anywhere with my flash kit without some kind of diffuser materials to spread and cut the light output. Distance may have been a factor. We were in fairly tight quarters, huddled in the shade of the lighthouse... Bear with me for one more question? When you say diffuser, what do you mean in this situation? I use diffusers all the time with off-camera flash, but on-camera, what do you prefer? I have resisted purchasing the sto-fen/tupperware-type accessories, but maybe they are worth a look...? (ok, so that was 3 questions...) :) -c -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On 11-07-13 2:50 PM, Christine Nielsen wrote: Bear with me for one more question? When you say diffuser, what do you mean in this situation? I use diffusers all the time with off-camera flash, but on-camera, what do you prefer? I have resisted purchasing the sto-fen/tupperware-type accessories, but maybe they are worth a look...? (ok, so that was 3 questions...) :) -c I use the Westcott Micro Apollo (5x8) for close portrait on-camera fill ... http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/62832-REG/Westcott_2200_Micro_Apollo_Softbox.html This shot was done with one, a K20D and DA* 55 ... http://goo.gl/adeU4 Just a tiny flicker of fill to get very flat light for a headshot. BTW: Westcott provides the wrong sex of Velcro on the flash attachment for this and it won't work with regular Velcro straps (Lumiquest, Honl) as-is. I unglued them and replaced them with double-sided sticky Velcro from the dollar store. -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Distance may have been a factor. We were in fairly tight quarters, huddled in the shade of the lighthouse... Bear with me for one more question? When you say diffuser, what do you mean in this situation? I use diffusers all the time with off-camera flash, but on-camera, what do you prefer? I have resisted purchasing the sto-fen/tupperware-type accessories, but maybe they are worth a look...? (ok, so that was 3 questions...) The Sto-Fen type type tupperware stuff are relatively crappy at diffusing the light but are good to cut down the output. Most of the time, for on-camera or near camera portable use, I find the LumiQuest Promax Softbox III (about an 8x9 diffuser) does a good job of broadening the light source by a reasonable amount for close quarters while being small enough not to get in the way. It cuts the light output by 1-1.5 stops on average, depending on the particular flash unit you're using. If the flash is still too strong, I tape a sheet of translucent or thin white typing paper on the front of it which cuts light output further by up to three stops. It's a great way to throttle back a high powered flash. Using it on the camera is a bit tricky because of the size of the box, I almost never use flash on camera unless I'm bouncing it off a card diffuser, wall or some other surface ... that is, it is pointed away from the front of the camera so it cannot interfere with the lens. For TTL-auto, I use dedicated remote cables or wireless remote if the camera and flash support it. For manual operation, a pair of inexpensive RF triggers is all I use nowadays ... I recently got a set of four new Cactus V5 triggers which can be used to both trigger the flash units and remotely trigger the camera. Having a flash on a lightstand or in the hands of an assistant, right near where it might be if on the camera, makes the camera much much more manageable if that's the lighting you're looking for. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
I've been less than happy with the LumiQuest Softbox III. It's harsh as an on-camera diffuser with a hot spot in the middle. For on-camera I much prefer the Omni-Bounce, with the flash head tilted up at 45 degrees or the Lightsphere. Paul On Jul 13, 2011, at 3:10 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote: On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:50 AM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: Distance may have been a factor. We were in fairly tight quarters, huddled in the shade of the lighthouse... Bear with me for one more question? When you say diffuser, what do you mean in this situation? I use diffusers all the time with off-camera flash, but on-camera, what do you prefer? I have resisted purchasing the sto-fen/tupperware-type accessories, but maybe they are worth a look...? (ok, so that was 3 questions...) The Sto-Fen type type tupperware stuff are relatively crappy at diffusing the light but are good to cut down the output. Most of the time, for on-camera or near camera portable use, I find the LumiQuest Promax Softbox III (about an 8x9 diffuser) does a good job of broadening the light source by a reasonable amount for close quarters while being small enough not to get in the way. It cuts the light output by 1-1.5 stops on average, depending on the particular flash unit you're using. If the flash is still too strong, I tape a sheet of translucent or thin white typing paper on the front of it which cuts light output further by up to three stops. It's a great way to throttle back a high powered flash. Using it on the camera is a bit tricky because of the size of the box, I almost never use flash on camera unless I'm bouncing it off a card diffuser, wall or some other surface ... that is, it is pointed away from the front of the camera so it cannot interfere with the lens. For TTL-auto, I use dedicated remote cables or wireless remote if the camera and flash support it. For manual operation, a pair of inexpensive RF triggers is all I use nowadays ... I recently got a set of four new Cactus V5 triggers which can be used to both trigger the flash units and remotely trigger the camera. Having a flash on a lightstand or in the hands of an assistant, right near where it might be if on the camera, makes the camera much much more manageable if that's the lighting you're looking for. -- Godfrey godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
I usuall do fill flash the old fashioned way, because you know, there's no sensors to get confused and screw up exposure. On 7/13/2011 11:11 AM, Christine Nielsen wrote: Last night, I attended a portrait workshop. We were shooting at the beach, at the end of the day. It was still very bright, and in the shade of a lighthouse, some fill was required on our models' faces. No problem. I had the AF540 on my k-7...using aperture priority mode, and -1.5 Flash EV, I took some shots. Gah. Way overexposed. I fiddled, set the flash to high-speed sync, and tried again. Still hot. I proceeded to try several other manipulations... none really working, until I settled on a fully manual operation for exposure, and flash (1/16). It shouldn't have to be this way, though, right? I should be able to use pttl to provide (more or less) the right amount of fill, yes? I'm even pretty sure I've done it successfully in the past, though it would have been with the AF360. What am I doing wrong? Thanks, -c -- Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom! --Marvin the Martian. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
From: Christine Nielsen On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote: The other problem I've had with the AF540 is you can't set it the way you want it and have it stay there. If it powers down, it reverts to full power when you wake it back up. Funny, there's a problem I haven't had. I often use my 540 360, together, on manual settings, as studio strobes for product photography. I can set them up, work for a while, leave them to power off on their own, and then return the next day they're on the same settings as before when they power up. Go figure! Maybe mine is defective. It wouldn't be the first defective AF540 I've had. The first one was replaced under warranty by this one, but the warranty has run out by now. At this point, I'm not even going to worry about it. I've got Vivitar 285HVs that do what I want them to do. - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1390 / Virus Database: 1516/3761 - Release Date: 07/12/11 -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl?
Hi Christine: I do pretty much what is stated below. Also, I have a fitted, square diffuser and often use the bounce angle, but obviously outside you can't bounce against the clouds, but sometimes this angle still helps when I want just a hint of light. Cheers, Christine/Chicago - Original Message - From: Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 12:00 PM Subject: Re: Can we talk about fill flash pttl? Thanks for your reply, Godfrey. Everything you said syncs with everything I've been taught about using flash... And your recommendation: When I do use TTL flash automation systems for fill flash, I find the only way to get consistent results with almost any camera and flash system is to: - Set camera to Manual exposure - Pick an ISO, aperture and exposure time to give appropriately correct main light exposure for the subject - Set the Flash EV-compensation control to work in the correct range, typically -2 to -1.3 EV is about right. Is 'zactly what I did. (manual exposure/ pttl flash/ -1.5 to -2EV/ hss was one of my iterations) Still, I got uneven results. Now, maybe I still goofed in setting the flash EV in camera rather than on the unit... or in any number of other ways... I hold onto hope for user error, but the (anecdotal) evidence on the other side is mounting. And when looking for guidance from the (Canikon-wielding) workshop leader? Oh, don't ask me about flash!! I just set it on AUTO go! Heehee!!! Maddening. Oh well. I'm happy that I'm at least comfortable enough navigating with a manual flash until I get this sorted out. Thanks again, -c On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:15 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi gdigio...@gmail.com wrote: I see questions like this quite often when I'm teaching workshops, from people with all different kinds of camera-flash systems. If you want to understand using a dedicated, auto-metering flash system like this, see Joe McNally's books, workshops and videos. They're based on Nikon equipment and their iTTL system, likely the best in the business, but the principles apply to any dedicated flash automation setup. Rick Sammon recently did a similar book based around the Canon E-TTL flash system, it's probably in the same ballpark. Those who prefer simpler, more basic flash use should look into the Strobist world for tutorials and ideas. http://strobist.blogspot.com/ I've been using flash illumination, for fill, main light, multi-light setups etc, since the 1970s. To me, all these dedicated autoflash systems are on the one hand a great convenience for some things and a huge handicap for other things. To me, understanding how they work and how to control lighting with them is often more work than understanding how to use a simple, basic, manual flash system. Even when I was shooting film, I preferred manual flash systems. With digital, it's such a piece of cake I don't understand the need for all the complexity of a dedicated autoflash system. Proper exposure is a combination of knowing what your intent is, a few simple things about the light sources you're using, and understanding how to manipulate the camera settings and the flash unit to produce the results desired. If the main light is the flash: - Aperture controls the focus zone. - ISO and exposure time @ an aperture setting control how much ambient light fill you get. - Distance and flash output control the intensity of the main light. If the main light is ambient and the flash is used for fill: - The rules above apply but you consider the ambient light as the main source and reduce flash illumination relative to it. When I do use TTL flash automation systems for fill flash, I find the only way to get consistent results with almost any camera and flash system is to: - Set camera to Manual exposure - Pick an ISO, aperture and exposure time to give appropriately correct main light exposure for the subject - Set the Flash EV-compensation control to work in the correct range, typically -2 to -1.3 EV is about right. This puts the burden of the flash exposure on the camera and flash unit, balancing against the ambient light setting which is fixed and manual. Using high speed sync options of the flash system is often called for if you're working in bright sunlight because you have a lot more flexibility on exposure time that way (not lmited to X-sync shutter time setting). You need to be sensitive to the limits of the flash automation system ... how much power does the flash unit have at most in the mode you're using, how *little* power can it be throttled back to on automatic, etc ... and adjust ISO settings, aperture setting, and distance to the flash to suit those limitations. (The only real difference when using auto-TTL metering when doing this and working the flash exposure by manual power settings is that the flash unit will automatically accommodate minor changes in subject reflectivity and distance, rather than you
