Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
From: "Shel Belinkoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I called Adorama this morning to be sure that the order I placed has been cancelled and that my credit card was not charged. I spoke with a fellow named Tobias. He said that the camera is not on backorder, and that he shows two in stock. His suggestion was that I not cancel the order and wait to the end of the day "to see if the camera ships." What kind of crap is that. Either the camera is in stock or it's not. Either they can ship or they can't. But to ask a customer to wait and see what happens is ludicrous. What ever happened to service? It is possible that the camera is not physically at the same location as the person you spoke with, therefore he could not personally see it or handle it. If that was the case, there *should* have been a way for him to make a phone call, something, to verify that the product exists. Tom C.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
"Pentax Japan Worldwide Imaging Conglomerate and Storm Door Company" You're closer than you may think with that observation -- Pentax make survey equipment and medical imaging products. I thought I had heard that medical imaging outperformed cameras by a wide margin, sales-wise. As a wise man once said, "That's the way it crumbles, cookie-wise." -Aaron -Original Message- From: "Shel Belinkoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subj: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) Date: Mon Feb 27, 2006 11:58 am Size: 1K To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net I called Adorama this morning to be sure that the order I placed has been cancelled and that my credit card was not charged. I spoke with a fellow named Tobias. He said that the camera is not on backorder, and that he shows two in stock. His suggestion was that I not cancel the order and wait to the end of the day "to see if the camera ships." What kind of crap is that. Either the camera is in stock or it's not. Either they can ship or they can't. But to ask a customer to wait and see what happens is ludicrous. What ever happened to service? Bill, I agree with you about Pentax having a greater hand in the distribution of their products. All I want, and probably other customers want as well, is a straight answer to my questions and to be able to simply purchase a camera. I understand that the problem may be with Pentax USA, but the problem may also be with Pentax Japan Worldwide Imaging Conglomerate and Storm Door Company for not being able to supply product or being straightforward about it's availability. Shel > [Original Message] > From: William Robb > > The DS2 was on their site for quite some time after I > > placed my order - almost 24 hours. Anyway, I'm past > > that and am continuing to look for the camera here in the > > US. I'm probably more miffed at Pentax for not having > > the camera in stock or available for purchase here in the US. > > Pentax USA is not owned by Pentax Japan, IIRC. > Perhaps your market would be better served if Pentax had more to > do with the distributor than just lending them a name to put on the door.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Shel continued: I'm not looking for guarantees, but I do have an expectation of a certain level of service. That probably stems from my background. Pretty much my whole family was in a service business at one time or another. Plus, I grew up in the era of trust and respect. Sure, many here are looking for a low cost, reliable purveyor. That's what buying on line is all about. However, when it's time to "interface" with a real person, it would be nice if that person possessed knowledge, skill, common sense, and a friendly, helpful demeanor. The entire process starts going downhill when you're on interminable hold listen to a message every few minutes that says "Your call is important to us." Well, if the call is so friggin' important, pick up the effin' phone. Staffing of customer service calls has become a science. In order to apparently provide a specific level of service for their customers, companies have learned: -how long a wait is too long -what is the level of knowledge their responders should have They address the first by staffing levels They address the second by staffing training High levels of customer service cost money. We've already told them we don't want to pay any more. Companies now are trying to walk the narrow line called cost effective customer service. Go below the level and your lack of service drives away customers. Go above the same level and your increase in costs either makes your sales unprofitable or prices too high - again driving away customers. WE did this when we turned our backs on the small, local, expensive, high service provider stores and move to their lower priced competitors. This is for any product that can be commoditized. Know any small businesses that successfully serve any but a niche market? For years, I've tried to patronize small local stores, often paying a premium to do so. I seem to be in a very small minority. Where I live most of them have either gone under or been bought up by national chains. All too often, this means that now when I actually need customer service, it really isn't available or I have to almost scream for it. It's our fault. Larry in Dallas
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
You should go back there and give them some shit. Having done that, you'd be flush with success! Kenneth Waller - Original Message - From: "Paul Stenquist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) You should go back there and give them some shit. On Feb 28, 2006, at 4:06 AM, mike wilson wrote: From: Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2006/02/28 Tue AM 07:42:45 GMT To: "pentax list" Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) On 27/2/06, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: I went to buy a toilet seat at the weekend. There were three listed as in stock but no location given, so I couldn't have one. _That's_ crap service. That would piss me off. I must admit, I was rather flushed afterwards. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
> > From: Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/02/28 Tue AM 11:35:07 GMT > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) > > You should go back there and give them some shit. I just washed my hands of the whole affair. > On Feb 28, 2006, at 4:06 AM, mike wilson wrote: > > > > >> > >> From: Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> Date: 2006/02/28 Tue AM 07:42:45 GMT > >> To: "pentax list" > >> Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) > >> > >> On 27/2/06, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: > >> > >>> I went to buy a toilet seat at the weekend. There were three listed > >>> as > >>> in stock but no location given, so I couldn't have one. _That's_ > >>> crap > >>> service. > >> > >> That would piss me off. > >> > > I must admit, I was rather flushed afterwards. > > > > > > - > > Email sent from www.ntlworld.com > > Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software > > Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information > > > > - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
You should go back there and give them some shit. On Feb 28, 2006, at 4:06 AM, mike wilson wrote: From: Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2006/02/28 Tue AM 07:42:45 GMT To: "pentax list" Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) On 27/2/06, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: I went to buy a toilet seat at the weekend. There were three listed as in stock but no location given, so I couldn't have one. _That's_ crap service. That would piss me off. I must admit, I was rather flushed afterwards. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
> > From: Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/02/28 Tue AM 07:42:45 GMT > To: "pentax list" > Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) > > On 27/2/06, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: > > >I went to buy a toilet seat at the weekend. There were three listed as > >in stock but no location given, so I couldn't have one. _That's_ crap > >service. > > That would piss me off. > I must admit, I was rather flushed afterwards. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
On 27/2/06, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed: >I went to buy a toilet seat at the weekend. There were three listed as >in stock but no location given, so I couldn't have one. _That's_ crap >service. That would piss me off. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Sorry to hear about your troubles in finding the camera you want. I usually order my film from Adorama. Never had a problem. I was actually at Adorama on the 19th (Sunday) of this month. As you know, and I will make an OT post later when I get some time, I was in search of a Leica rangefinder. I had read enough about the screwmount lenses in particular where I figured it would be best to see the lens in person rather than trust ratings on the web... Anyhow, I walked in with my sister and I dealt with Chris. The place was not crowded. He took plenty of time to show me a few models and even made a couple of trips to get some gear and apologized for taking so much time. It was such a pleasant experience. No real reason to respond to your post, other than to let you know that it probably all depends on who you happen to communicate with... I actually found Olden Camera again after a year of having lost their location; I also found another store on 21st Street that cater to the professional so they had Pentax medium format. I will let the list know how the rangefinder shopping went in a later post, César Panama City, Florida Shel Belinkoff wrote: Yesterday I ordered an istDS2 from Adorama. The item was prominently posted on their site. It's time consuming to fill out all the forms and provide the information, but it had to be done ;-)) I was so happy to have found the camera I've been looking for available here in the US. This afternoon I received an email from Adorama. The camera is on "backorder." They don't have the thing in stock. What a friggin' waste of time. That info should be posted right up front with all the other ordering and camera info. Shel
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Pentax USA, now Pentax Imaging, is owned and run by Pentax. Have been so for a long time, I think from back when Honeywell dropped their photography business. Recently they seem to have been supervising it much more closely from Japan. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- William Robb wrote: - Original Message - From: "Shel Belinkoff" Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) The DS2 was on their site for quite some time after I placed my order - almost 24 hours. Anyway, I'm past that and am continuing to look for the camera here in the US. I'm probably more miffed at Pentax for not having the camera in stock or available for purchase here in the US. Pentax USA is not owned by Pentax Japan, IIRC. Perhaps your market would be better served if Pentax had more to do with the distributor than just lending them a name to put on the door. William Robb
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
I'm not looking for guarantees, but I do have an expectation of a certain level of service. That probably stems from my background. Pretty much my whole family was in a service business at one time or another. Plus, I grew up in the era of trust and respect. Sure, many here are looking for a low cost, reliable purveyor. That's what buying on line is all about. However, when it's time to "interface" with a real person, it would be nice if that person possessed knowledge, skill, common sense, and a friendly, helpful demeanor. The entire process starts going downhill when you're on interminable hold listen to a message every few minutes that says "Your call is important to us." Well, if the call is so friggin' important, pick up the effin' phone. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Larry Levy > Shel continued to vent with: > > > While in general you're correct about calling and speaking to a person > > live, that's still no guarantee of getting good service these days. I've > > made numerous calls to various stores about this camera, and only three > > people I spoke with were knowledgeable, friendly, and genuinely helpful. > > Another was helpful but neither knowledgeable nor friendly. I guess a > > (generously graded) 25% hit rate's not too bad these days > > I didn't know you wanted guarantees of good customer service. Usually that > costs more :-) > > On this list, most of us are looking for the low-cost reliable purveyor. > Sometimes, gurantees of proper customer service are one of the costs the > provider chooses to pare.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
- Original Message - From: "Larry Levy" Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) On this list, most of us are looking for the low-cost reliable purveyor. Sometimes, gurantees of proper customer service are one of the costs the provider chooses to pare. Sadly, customer service is the first thing that gets cut when competition gets tough. Good customer service requires real people with real training. Real people with real training cost real money. The consumers have spoken, they want the lowest price. Period. We have chosen to eschew customer service in favour of the bottom line. It is a strategy that backfires from time to time. William Robb
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Shel continued to vent with: While in general you're correct about calling and speaking to a person live, that's still no guarantee of getting good service these days. I've made numerous calls to various stores about this camera, and only three people I spoke with were knowledgeable, friendly, and genuinely helpful. Another was helpful but neither knowledgeable nor friendly. I guess a (generously graded) 25% hit rate's not too bad these days I didn't know you wanted guarantees of good customer service. Usually that costs more :-) On this list, most of us are looking for the low-cost reliable purveyor. Sometimes, gurantees of proper customer service are one of the costs the provider chooses to pare. Larry in Dallas
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Shel Belinkoff wrote: What kind of crap is that. Either the camera is in stock or it's not. Either they can ship or they can't. But to ask a customer to wait and see what happens is ludicrous. What ever happened to service? I went to buy a toilet seat at the weekend. There were three listed as in stock but no location given, so I couldn't have one. _That's_ crap service. 8-(
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
In passing Shel provided: The last two purchases I made from B&H went to my PO box and were shipped from Brooklyn, NY, not from Manhattan where the store is located. Makes sense considering where their warehouse is located. Larry in Dallas
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
While in general you're correct about calling and speaking to a person live, that's still no guarantee of getting good service these days. I've made numerous calls to various stores about this camera, and only three people I spoke with were knowledgeable, friendly, and genuinely helpful. Another was helpful but neither knowledgeable nor friendly. I guess a (generously graded) 25% hit rate's not too bad these days My uncle was an engineer, inventor, and a designer of cookware and kitchen products for the home and industry. You'd know the products he developed. Anyway, when a prototype was ready for final testing, he wouldn't let the engineers test the product. He went to the office staff and found men and women who might be typical buyers of the product, and told them to beat the shit out of it. Press switches in the wrong order, disregard the instructions, overload the capacities, and so on. That, he said, was the only way he'd really know how the product would work in the real world - the world of the harried cook or home maker, the world of kids putting marbles in the blender, the world of men drying their laundry in the microwave. It may sound funny, but these were all things he saw done when testing. Of course, he'd take the products home with him and have his wife and kids try it out, and some of the neighbors as well. You're absolutely correct that more testing and care is needed in the marketplace these days. Some honesty would be helpful as well. I can tell you that Pentax USA lied to me about the availability of their products, specifically the istDS2. I now know this to be true, it having been substantiated ~FIVE~ times by knowledgeable people dealing with Pentax USA who are not directly affiliated with them. The last confirmation on this was just a few minutes ago. Yet Pentax USA, as of yesterday or the day before, still had the camera listed on their web site as being available to purchase, and two different representatives from Pentax USA told me, in no uncertain terms, that the camera was available and was not discontinued. Now, maybe saying they lied is too strong. maybe they are only out of stock, and five of their dealers misunderstood them and gave me misinformation. Maybe it's a matter of semantics, and the camera isn't "officially" discontinued, and it's just that there won't be any more in the pipeline or any more being made. This whole experience of trying to find a camera that was released only a few months ago has been an eye-opening experience. That the camera has been replaced with a lower speced version, the istDL, says something about Pentax, that they don't have a clue as to what they're doing. The DS and DS2 were popular cameras, a nice bridge between the DL and the bigger D and it's soon-to-be-released replacement. Feh! Shel > [Original Message] > From: Larry Levy > Welcome again to the world of customer-service that is not customer tested. > I can certainly empathize with you. Of course, you could have spent your > time on something more productive (like sleeping) and never had the desire > to have your expectation raised to only have it dashed by lack of > availability of the item you enthusiasticly plowed through the process to > order. > > Unfortunately, this is all to common. At work (I'm a retired > consultant/systems designer working at RadioShack) I have to deal with > systems that were evidently not tested using real people. For example, to > issue a new Cingular cell phone I request a desired area code early on page > 2 and than enter all sorts of detailed information in pages 2, 3, 4 and 5 > before the system tells me that that area code is not currently available > and I have to back through all the pages and select an alternative number. > Then I have to re-enter the data going forward again. This can happen for > several iterations. No one bothered to think of checking for availability > when requested. > > It would be all too easy for the site designer to have the system go > through a routine to check availability before asking you to give them all > that detailed data. But then again, their database may have indicated > availability and the software would have blithely let you go on anyway. > > Sometimes I think that there is a huge market for people who will test and > critique websites before they go live to the public. Usually the testers > have too mujch knowledge and make assumptions that the real user wouldn't > know enough to make. The public often just gets annoyed and goes away. The > opportunity losses would pay for an huge amount of real testing. > > So what's the solution to your issue? I'm a systems kinda guy (beginning > with first generation vacuum tube computers and programming in machine > language), but when I really want to know about something, I call. This > means I can talk to a real person who will tell me about the product > actually being physically there and available for
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
A truly miffed Shel posted: Yesterday I ordered an istDS2 from Adorama. The item was prominently posted on their site. It's time consuming to fill out all the forms and provide the information, but it had to be done ;-)) I was so happy to have found the camera I've been looking for available here in the US. This afternoon I received an email from Adorama. The camera is on "backorder." They don't have the thing in stock. What a friggin' waste of time. That info should be posted right up front with all the other ordering and camera info. Welcome again to the world of customer-service that is not customer tested. I can certainly empathize with you. Of course, you could have spent your time on something more productive (like sleeping) and never had the desire to have your expectation raised to only have it dashed by lack of availability of the item you enthusiasticly plowed through the process to order. Unfortunately, this is all to common. At work (I'm a retired consultant/systems designer working at RadioShack) I have to deal with systems that were evidently not tested using real people. For example, to issue a new Cingular cell phone I request a desired area code early on page 2 and than enter all sorts of detailed information in pages 2, 3, 4 and 5 before the system tells me that that area code is not currently available and I have to back through all the pages and select an alternative number. Then I have to re-enter the data going forward again. This can happen for several iterations. No one bothered to think of checking for availability when requested. It would be all too easy for the site designer to have the system go through a routine to check availability before asking you to give them all that detailed data. But then again, their database may have indicated availability and the software would have blithely let you go on anyway. Sometimes I think that there is a huge market for people who will test and critique websites before they go live to the public. Usually the testers have too mujch knowledge and make assumptions that the real user wouldn't know enough to make. The public often just gets annoyed and goes away. The opportunity losses would pay for an huge amount of real testing. So what's the solution to your issue? I'm a systems kinda guy (beginning with first generation vacuum tube computers and programming in machine language), but when I really want to know about something, I call. This means I can talk to a real person who will tell me about the product actually being physically there and available for shipping to me. Most of the standard internet companies we deal with (e.g., KEH, Adorama, B&H, etc.) will actually do this. Every once in a while, this process doesn't work for a more arcane product. I saw a Refconverter-A on the 17th Photo site for a great price. Not trusting this, I called and their rep went and got it. I ordered it and received a Refconverter (huge difference). I was even more disappointed than I had been while I was in the search process. I called them and they took it back and refunded me all my out of pockets with an apology. They even updated their website. I'm not complaining about 17th Photo. They made a mistake which they corrected. I'm just pointing out that even working with a live person leaves room for customer service errors. Good luck with your ongoing quest for a DS2. Larry in Dallas
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Yesterday I ordered an istDS2 from Adorama. The item was prominently posted on their site. It's time consuming to fill out all the forms and provide the information, but it had to be done ;-)) I was so happy to have found the camera I've been looking for available here in the US. This afternoon I received an email from Adorama. The camera is on "backorder." They don't have the thing in stock. What a friggin' waste of time. That info should be posted right up front with all the other ordering and camera info. Hate to say I told you so, but yeah... John Celio -- http://www.neovenator.com AIM: Neopifex "Hey, I'm an artist. I can do whatever I want and pretend I'm making a statement."
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
- Original Message - From: "Shel Belinkoff" Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) Bill, I agree with you about Pentax having a greater hand in the distribution of their products. All I want, and probably other customers want as well, is a straight answer to my questions and to be able to simply purchase a camera. I understand that the problem may be with Pentax USA, but the problem may also be with Pentax Japan Worldwide Imaging Conglomerate and Storm Door Company for not being able to supply product or being straightforward about it's availability. I'm pretty sure Pentax Canada is owned by Pentax Japan. The service from PCI is really good. The istD was in stock in mid September 2003, very shortly after release, the 31mm LTD took about 3 days to get after I had ordered it, the 200/4 Macro took a few weeks, but they had to find one for me in the rep's samples and then run it through a CLA. The 14mm took a few days to arrive, and most recently, the 10-17 was less than 2 weeks, but it wasn't even on PCI's website at that time. The fleet of LXs that was repaired by PCI 4 or so years ago have suffered no further problems at all. William Robb
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
I cancelled the order. I don't want to deal with this company any more. I called a place in Illinois and spoke to a very nice lady who will check on the availability of the camera. If she can't get it, then I'm going to purchase the camera in Canada. I've just had it with trying to buy one here in the US. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Kostas Kavoussanakis > On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > > I called Adorama this morning to be sure that the order I placed has been > cancelled and that my credit card was not charged. I spoke with a fellow > named Tobias. He said that the camera is not on backorder, and that he > shows two in stock. His suggestion was that I not cancel the order and wait > to the end of the day "to see if the camera ships." > What kind of crap is that. Either the camera is in stock or it's > not. Either they can ship or they can't. > >So what did you decide? > > Kostas
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006, Shel Belinkoff wrote: I called Adorama this morning to be sure that the order I placed has been cancelled and that my credit card was not charged. I spoke with a fellow named Tobias. He said that the camera is not on backorder, and that he shows two in stock. His suggestion was that I not cancel the order and wait to the end of the day "to see if the camera ships." What kind of crap is that. Either the camera is in stock or it's not. Either they can ship or they can't. So what did you decide? Kostas
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
I called Adorama this morning to be sure that the order I placed has been cancelled and that my credit card was not charged. I spoke with a fellow named Tobias. He said that the camera is not on backorder, and that he shows two in stock. His suggestion was that I not cancel the order and wait to the end of the day "to see if the camera ships." What kind of crap is that. Either the camera is in stock or it's not. Either they can ship or they can't. But to ask a customer to wait and see what happens is ludicrous. What ever happened to service? Bill, I agree with you about Pentax having a greater hand in the distribution of their products. All I want, and probably other customers want as well, is a straight answer to my questions and to be able to simply purchase a camera. I understand that the problem may be with Pentax USA, but the problem may also be with Pentax Japan Worldwide Imaging Conglomerate and Storm Door Company for not being able to supply product or being straightforward about it's availability. Shel > [Original Message] > From: William Robb > > The DS2 was on their site for quite some time after I > > placed my order - almost 24 hours. Anyway, I'm past > > that and am continuing to look for the camera here in the > > US. I'm probably more miffed at Pentax for not having > > the camera in stock or available for purchase here in the US. > > Pentax USA is not owned by Pentax Japan, IIRC. > Perhaps your market would be better served if Pentax had more to > do with the distributor than just lending them a name to put on the door.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
On Feb 27, 2006, at 4:47 AM, graywolf wrote: Don't worry, not only does the wholesaler not stock the product, neither does Pentax Imaging the importer. Pentax's distribution center in the Philippines may or may not have it in stock. It is the modern way to do business. You're right -- I forgot about that. Mine came in a Purolator box from the Philippines. I am not defending this practice, by the way, just trying to explain the reasoning behind it. I hear that the margins on the new DSLRs are better than the margins were on the old film SLRs, but that they're still pretty lousy. I remember that an MZ-50 kit cost us $459 and retailed for $499. And people wanted to bargain. -Aaron
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
I've been doing business with B&H for at least a decade and probably over $20,000 worth of goods. They're not perfect, they screw up now and then too. I've had two mishaps on orders. But all in all they've provided high quality service even when they do screw up. Godfrey On Feb 27, 2006, at 6:35 AM, Jack Davis wrote: I haven't had purchases at quite the same level, but my experience with B&H has been only positive. Jack --- Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've purchased two cameras and at least a dozen lenses from B&H in the last two years. No problems.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
- Original Message - From: "Shel Belinkoff" Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) The DS2 was on their site for quite some time after I placed my order - almost 24 hours. Anyway, I'm past that and am continuing to look for the camera here in the US. I'm probably more miffed at Pentax for not having the camera in stock or available for purchase here in the US. Pentax USA is not owned by Pentax Japan, IIRC. Perhaps your market would be better served if Pentax had more to do with the distributor than just lending them a name to put on the door. William Robb
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
I haven't had purchases at quite the same level, but my experience with B&H has been only positive. Jack --- Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've purchased two cameras and at least a dozen lenses from B&H in > the > last two years. No problems. > Paul > On Feb 26, 2006, at 10:21 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote: > > > Good to have another venter on the list, Shel. You have my > > understanding. > > > > In 2004, Adorama listed the DA 14 in June. I ordered it the day it > > went up on their site. I received it in October. > > > > Last year when I wanted to get the DA 40, Adorama had it listed > first. > > I ordered as soon as it showed on their web site. Waited and > waited, > > and no lens came in. Meanwhile B&H got stock of it. After waiting > more > > time for Adorama, I canceled the order there and ordered from B&H. > > > > This year it was the DA 10-17. Adorama was again the first to show > it > > on their site. I ordered on day one. But B&H got it in about 2 or 3 > > > weeks before Adorama did. I would have changed the order to B&H, > > except that Adorama had it for $80 less. Since I didn't need it > > urgently, I waited. > > > > What I don't understand in these cases is why Adorama has so much > > trouble getting early stock of lenses. In the U.S. market, their > sales > > must be second only to B&H. > > > > And as the user of a P.O. Box, I symphathize on that too. The main > > reason why I usually buy lenses from Adorama comes from an > experience > > with B&H. Some years ago I ordered a lens from B&H to be sent to my > PO > > Box. I got the email from B&H saying it had been shipped. The email > > > was a lie. B&H did not bother to take it to the post office for a > week > > after that email. When I complained to Henry Posner, he had the > nerve > > to say it was my fault for selecting Postal Service shipping. Right > -- > > the deceitful email was my fault. Since then I have bought most > lenses > > from Adorama. > > > > As for your camera: Buy a Samsung. > > > > Joe > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Don't worry, not only does the wholesaler not stock the product, neither does Pentax Imaging the importer. Pentax's distribution center in the Philippines may or may not have it in stock. It is the modern way to do business. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- mike wilson wrote: From: Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2006/02/27 Mon AM 01:55:50 GMT To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) On Feb 26, 2006, at 8:53 PM, John Francis wrote: But nowadays they seem to be reluctant to show items as out-of-stock. It's because they probably didn't know that Pentax had no stock -- more and more often these days, online retailers don't have a stocked warehouse. When you order the product, they buy it from the wholesaler and have it shipped to you. Rather negates the point of the term "wholesaler". Just another level to cream off profit, then. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Never had problems with B&H shipping to my PO box. They certainly don't charge a $42.00 premium for doing so. The last two purchases I made from B&H went to my PO box and were shipped from Brooklyn, NY, not from Manhattan where the store is located. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Joseph Tainter > Some years ago I ordered a lens from B&H to > be sent to my PO Box. I got the email from B&H saying it had > been shipped. The email was a lie. B&H did not bother to take it > to the post office for a week after that email. When I > complained to Henry Posner, he had the nerve to say it was my > fault for selecting Postal Service shipping. Right -- the > deceitful email was my fault. Since then I have bought most > lenses from Adorama.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
The DS2 was on their site for quite some time after I placed my order - almost 24 hours. Anyway, I'm past that and am continuing to look for the camera here in the US. I'm probably more miffed at Pentax for not having the camera in stock or available for purchase here in the US. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Steve Sharpe > No sign of the DS2 on the Adorama site now. I wonder > if someone else put one in their cart at about the same > time and got through the check out a little faster.
Re: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
> > From: Aaron Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 2006/02/27 Mon AM 01:55:50 GMT > To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) > > > On Feb 26, 2006, at 8:53 PM, John Francis wrote: > > > But nowadays they seem to be reluctant to show items as out-of-stock. > > It's because they probably didn't know that Pentax had no stock -- more > and more often these days, online retailers don't have a stocked > warehouse. When you order the product, they buy it from the wholesaler > and have it shipped to you. > Rather negates the point of the term "wholesaler". Just another level to cream off profit, then. - Email sent from www.ntlworld.com Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Shel - Here in the Milwaukee area we have two dealers that have had the DS2 in stock. If you'd like, I can check tomorrow to see if they still have them. Price around $800, body only plus Wisconsin sales tax -P Shel Belinkoff wrote: The other thing that annoyed me was that Adorama wanted $56.00 to ship to my PO Box and only $14.00 to ship to my home via United Parcel. I much prefer having expensive gear go to the PO Box as it's safer (doesn't sit out in plain sight of the street if I can't be there when the truck arrives), and I don't have to hang around waiting for the delivery truck to arrive. Shel [Original Message] From: cbwaters NOT an acceptable excuse for very poor customer treatment... imagine going to the supermarket , picking up a box of Frosted Flakes, getting to the counter and out the door to find when you get home only a slip of paper saying the cereal was out of stock and you should expect it as soon as it becomes available... Yeah, big fun. Got screwed by Wolf.com like this when buying my *ist D...except they never sent me any emails and I had to call THEM to find out they never had the camera in stock and had no clue when it would arrive...I told them to stuff the order up their nose.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
My solution to that one is a friendly store owner. Never have seen a pile of UPS boxes on on the sidewalk in front of a store have you? Funny thing is when delivering to a store if they are closed UPS just leaves it on the truck and brings it back the next day. My buddy's store uptown sells dresses and jewelery to college students, so he is not going to get mad that I didn't by it from him. Last item I have shipped c/o him was an antique bicycle; what a hassle that would have been UPS'ed to my apartment . graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com http://webpages.charter.net/graywolf "Idiot Proof" <==> "Expert Proof" --- Shel Belinkoff wrote: The other thing that annoyed me was that Adorama wanted $56.00 to ship to my PO Box and only $14.00 to ship to my home via United Parcel. I much prefer having expensive gear go to the PO Box as it's safer (doesn't sit out in plain sight of the street if I can't be there when the truck arrives), and I don't have to hang around waiting for the delivery truck to arrive. Shel [Original Message] From: cbwaters NOT an acceptable excuse for very poor customer treatment... imagine going to the supermarket , picking up a box of Frosted Flakes, getting to the counter and out the door to find when you get home only a slip of paper saying the cereal was out of stock and you should expect it as soon as it becomes available... Yeah, big fun. Got screwed by Wolf.com like this when buying my *ist D...except they never sent me any emails and I had to call THEM to find out they never had the camera in stock and had no clue when it would arrive...I told them to stuff the order up their nose.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
At 8:53 PM -0500 2/26/06, John Francis wrote: On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 05:34:33PM -0800, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Yesterday I ordered an istDS2 from Adorama. The item was prominently posted on their site. It's time consuming to fill out all the forms and provide the information, but it had to be done ;-)) I was so happy to have found the camera I've been looking for available here in the US. This afternoon I received an email from Adorama. The camera is on "backorder." They don't have the thing in stock. What a friggin' waste of time. That info should be posted right up front with all the other ordering and camera info. > Shel No sign of the DS2 on the Adorama site now. I wonder if someone else put one in their cart at about the same time and got through the check out a little faster. I have not had any problems with either Adorama or B&H. That said, I still prefer to deal with a local camera store as long as the price difference is not too great. That way, if there is a problem I just go down there and rant at them in person. Unfortunately for me, the nearest "local camera store" is 150 miles away... -- Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
i have never ever had a (worth mentioning) problem with either b&h or adorama. when i lived in boston, ordering from adorama with the cheapest shipping option (ground ups) usually meant that i would get the package next evening! best, mishka On 2/26/06, Paul Stenquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've purchased two cameras and at least a dozen lenses from B&H in the > last two years. No problems. > Paul > On Feb 26, 2006, at 10:21 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote: > > > Good to have another venter on the list, Shel. You have my > > understanding. > > > > In 2004, Adorama listed the DA 14 in June. I ordered it the day it > > went up on their site. I received it in October. > > > > Last year when I wanted to get the DA 40, Adorama had it listed first. > > I ordered as soon as it showed on their web site. Waited and waited, > > and no lens came in. Meanwhile B&H got stock of it. After waiting more > > time for Adorama, I canceled the order there and ordered from B&H. > > > > This year it was the DA 10-17. Adorama was again the first to show it > > on their site. I ordered on day one. But B&H got it in about 2 or 3 > > weeks before Adorama did. I would have changed the order to B&H, > > except that Adorama had it for $80 less. Since I didn't need it > > urgently, I waited. > > > > What I don't understand in these cases is why Adorama has so much > > trouble getting early stock of lenses. In the U.S. market, their sales > > must be second only to B&H. > > > > And as the user of a P.O. Box, I symphathize on that too. The main > > reason why I usually buy lenses from Adorama comes from an experience > > with B&H. Some years ago I ordered a lens from B&H to be sent to my PO > > Box. I got the email from B&H saying it had been shipped. The email > > was a lie. B&H did not bother to take it to the post office for a week > > after that email. When I complained to Henry Posner, he had the nerve > > to say it was my fault for selecting Postal Service shipping. Right -- > > the deceitful email was my fault. Since then I have bought most lenses > > from Adorama. > > > > As for your camera: Buy a Samsung. > > > > Joe > > > >
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
I've purchased two cameras and at least a dozen lenses from B&H in the last two years. No problems. Paul On Feb 26, 2006, at 10:21 PM, Joseph Tainter wrote: Good to have another venter on the list, Shel. You have my understanding. In 2004, Adorama listed the DA 14 in June. I ordered it the day it went up on their site. I received it in October. Last year when I wanted to get the DA 40, Adorama had it listed first. I ordered as soon as it showed on their web site. Waited and waited, and no lens came in. Meanwhile B&H got stock of it. After waiting more time for Adorama, I canceled the order there and ordered from B&H. This year it was the DA 10-17. Adorama was again the first to show it on their site. I ordered on day one. But B&H got it in about 2 or 3 weeks before Adorama did. I would have changed the order to B&H, except that Adorama had it for $80 less. Since I didn't need it urgently, I waited. What I don't understand in these cases is why Adorama has so much trouble getting early stock of lenses. In the U.S. market, their sales must be second only to B&H. And as the user of a P.O. Box, I symphathize on that too. The main reason why I usually buy lenses from Adorama comes from an experience with B&H. Some years ago I ordered a lens from B&H to be sent to my PO Box. I got the email from B&H saying it had been shipped. The email was a lie. B&H did not bother to take it to the post office for a week after that email. When I complained to Henry Posner, he had the nerve to say it was my fault for selecting Postal Service shipping. Right -- the deceitful email was my fault. Since then I have bought most lenses from Adorama. As for your camera: Buy a Samsung. Joe
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Good to have another venter on the list, Shel. You have my understanding. In 2004, Adorama listed the DA 14 in June. I ordered it the day it went up on their site. I received it in October. Last year when I wanted to get the DA 40, Adorama had it listed first. I ordered as soon as it showed on their web site. Waited and waited, and no lens came in. Meanwhile B&H got stock of it. After waiting more time for Adorama, I canceled the order there and ordered from B&H. This year it was the DA 10-17. Adorama was again the first to show it on their site. I ordered on day one. But B&H got it in about 2 or 3 weeks before Adorama did. I would have changed the order to B&H, except that Adorama had it for $80 less. Since I didn't need it urgently, I waited. What I don't understand in these cases is why Adorama has so much trouble getting early stock of lenses. In the U.S. market, their sales must be second only to B&H. And as the user of a P.O. Box, I symphathize on that too. The main reason why I usually buy lenses from Adorama comes from an experience with B&H. Some years ago I ordered a lens from B&H to be sent to my PO Box. I got the email from B&H saying it had been shipped. The email was a lie. B&H did not bother to take it to the post office for a week after that email. When I complained to Henry Posner, he had the nerve to say it was my fault for selecting Postal Service shipping. Right -- the deceitful email was my fault. Since then I have bought most lenses from Adorama. As for your camera: Buy a Samsung. Joe
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
The other thing that annoyed me was that Adorama wanted $56.00 to ship to my PO Box and only $14.00 to ship to my home via United Parcel. I much prefer having expensive gear go to the PO Box as it's safer (doesn't sit out in plain sight of the street if I can't be there when the truck arrives), and I don't have to hang around waiting for the delivery truck to arrive. Shel > [Original Message] > From: cbwaters > NOT an acceptable excuse for very poor customer treatment... > > imagine going to the supermarket , picking up a box of Frosted Flakes, > getting to the counter and out the door to find when you get home only a > slip of paper saying the cereal was out of stock and you should expect it as > soon as it becomes available... > Yeah, big fun. > Got screwed by Wolf.com like this when buying my *ist D...except they never > sent me any emails and I had to call THEM to find out they never had the > camera in stock and had no clue when it would arrive...I told them to stuff > the order up their nose.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
For some time now, Adorama has become very slick and deceptive in their dealings. Swore off any further contact with them several months ago. Jack --- cbwaters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > NOT an acceptable excuse for very poor customer treatment... > > imagine going to the supermarket , picking up a box of Frosted > Flakes, > getting to the counter and out the door to find when you get home > only a > slip of paper saying the cereal was out of stock and you should > expect it as > soon as it becomes available... > Yeah, big fun. > Got screwed by Wolf.com like this when buying my *ist D...except they > never > sent me any emails and I had to call THEM to find out they never had > the > camera in stock and had no clue when it would arrive...I told them to > stuff > the order up their nose. > > CW > is downloading most of last season's episodes of TopGear...funny > stuff. > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Aaron Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:55 PM > Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) > > > > > > On Feb 26, 2006, at 8:53 PM, John Francis wrote: > > > >> But nowadays they seem to be reluctant to show items as > out-of-stock. > > > > It's because they probably didn't know that Pentax had no stock -- > more > > and more often these days, online retailers don't have a stocked > > warehouse. When you order the product, they buy it from the > wholesaler > > and have it shipped to you. > > > > -Aaron > > > > > > > > -- > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: > 2/24/2006 > > > > > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
Yes, Bill, I know ;-)) But before buying through Canada I'd like to see if I can get the camera through a US dealer. It just makes shipping and warranty issues simpler. Actually, there are several Canadian places that I know have the camera. If I can't get the camera here in the next few days, I'll buy from our friendly neighbors to the north. Earlier this evening I found a place in Illionois that claims to have a few in stock. Gonna call them in the morning. Shel > [Original Message] > From: William Robb > > Surprisingly, I attempted to place an order for the camera > > through Pentax - they had it listed on their site with a nice, > > bright "Buy" button. Clicking the button brought me to the DL. > > Even Pentax hasn't got their shit together with this camera. > > They have them in stock at Don's Photo... > > William Robb >
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
- Original Message - From: "Shel Belinkoff" Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) While that may be the case, numerous other retailers seem to know that the camera was neither in stock at their location, and that it is not available at this time through wholesalers or other sources, and make note of that one way or another right up front. Surprisingly, I attempted to place an order for the camera through Pentax - they had it listed on their site with a nice, bright "Buy" button. Clicking the button brought me to the DL. Even Pentax hasn't got their shit together with this camera. They have them in stock at Don's Photo... William Robb
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
While that may be the case, numerous other retailers seem to know that the camera was neither in stock at their location, and that it is not available at this time through wholesalers or other sources, and make note of that one way or another right up front. Surprisingly, I attempted to place an order for the camera through Pentax - they had it listed on their site with a nice, bright "Buy" button. Clicking the button brought me to the DL. Even Pentax hasn't got their shit together with this camera. Shel > [Original Message] > From: Aaron Reynolds > It's because they probably didn't know that Pentax had no stock -- more > and more often these days, online retailers don't have a stocked > warehouse. When you order the product, they buy it from the wholesaler > and have it shipped to you. > John Francis wrote: > > But nowadays they seem to be reluctant to show items as out-of-stock.
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
NOT an acceptable excuse for very poor customer treatment... imagine going to the supermarket , picking up a box of Frosted Flakes, getting to the counter and out the door to find when you get home only a slip of paper saying the cereal was out of stock and you should expect it as soon as it becomes available... Yeah, big fun. Got screwed by Wolf.com like this when buying my *ist D...except they never sent me any emails and I had to call THEM to find out they never had the camera in stock and had no clue when it would arrive...I told them to stuff the order up their nose. CW is downloading most of last season's episodes of TopGear...funny stuff. - Original Message - From: "Aaron Reynolds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:55 PM Subject: Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!) On Feb 26, 2006, at 8:53 PM, John Francis wrote: But nowadays they seem to be reluctant to show items as out-of-stock. It's because they probably didn't know that Pentax had no stock -- more and more often these days, online retailers don't have a stocked warehouse. When you order the product, they buy it from the wholesaler and have it shipped to you. -Aaron -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 268.1.0/269 - Release Date: 2/24/2006
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
On Feb 26, 2006, at 8:53 PM, John Francis wrote: But nowadays they seem to be reluctant to show items as out-of-stock. It's because they probably didn't know that Pentax had no stock -- more and more often these days, online retailers don't have a stocked warehouse. When you order the product, they buy it from the wholesaler and have it shipped to you. -Aaron
Re: Miffed at Adorama (Gotta vent!)
On Sun, Feb 26, 2006 at 05:34:33PM -0800, Shel Belinkoff wrote: > Yesterday I ordered an istDS2 from Adorama. The item was prominently > posted on their site. It's time consuming to fill out all the forms and > provide the information, but it had to be done ;-)) I was so happy to have > found the camera I've been looking for available here in the US. > > This afternoon I received an email from Adorama. The camera is on > "backorder." They don't have the thing in stock. What a friggin' waste of > time. That info should be posted right up front with all the other > ordering and camera info. > > > Shel Unfortunately I seem to hear this far too often about Adorama of late. It used to be that they were right up there in the top tier with B&H. But nowadays they seem to be reluctant to show items as out-of-stock. Mind you, where else can you go? CameraWorld of Oregon are now a part of Ritz Camera, and it's too still hard to find Pentax stuff elsewhere.
