RE: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[John Sessoms]

From: Cotty


Hi folks,

Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.



or direct on Vimeo:





Very good, moving film. Truly work to be proud of.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 17/12/10, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:

>One of the most powerful videos I've ever seen.  I'm not too much of a
>man to admit that I cried throughout much of it.

Frank, thanks for your very touching words. It means a lot to me. Cheers.

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  Cotty


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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[frank theriault]

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Cotty  wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
> visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
> together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.
>
> 
>
> or direct on Vimeo:
>
> 

Brilliant!

Moving.

One of the most powerful videos I've ever seen.  I'm not too much of a
man to admit that I cried throughout much of it.

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[frank theriault]

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Cotty  wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
> visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
> together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.
>
> 
>
> or direct on Vimeo:
>
> 

Need to get to a library with a Flash-enabled 'puter.

cheers,
frank
-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 16/12/10, Doug Franklin, discombobulated, unleashed:

> The odds are none of those
>teenagers had ever talked to an actual survivor of the camps, or even
>first generation descendants

As part of their course, they met with and listened to a survivor of
Auschwitz, but I take your point.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[mike wilson]

On 16 December 2010 23:59, Bob W  wrote:
> [...]> > Yes of course Mike. Thanks. I must admit, they seemed quite stoic.
>> Were
>> > the groups of your quite young? In this day and age it seems
>> teenagers
>> > grow up almost too quickly what with the internet...
>>
>> About the same as an average, with one or two older ones.  It was
>> 16-20 years ago, so maybe there is something in the idea that
>> youngsters today are inured.  I sincerely hope not.
>
> I think you have to bear in mind that the camps were liberated 65 years ago.
> Putting that in relation to when I was 14-16 years old that would be events
> which took place in about 1905. Although people do have natural human
> sympathy with other people from that long ago, I would have found it
> difficult to relate to being flown overseas for a day and dragged around an
> exhibition about the 1915+ genocide of the Armenians, while events such as
> the Vietnam War, the Cambodian genocide, the war in Pakistan were immediate,
> happening there and then, and all over the papers & TV every day.
>
> I don't think people become inured but it's hard to see the value of this
> when so many things are happening right now which we're not doing much about
> and which seem to show that we have learned nothing from the genocides of
> the 20th century.

As I and Steve said, there aren't many answers there.  But the reality
of being in the place where it happened, plus seeing the stuff that
belonged to the people (even though I knew it was coming) really hit
me.  I imagine that one would get the same effect from a Cambodian
ossuary or many other types of memorial.  Maybe I'm just
hyper-emotional (or maybe it's because there is at least a distant
possibilty that relatives of mine went through the process) but I
found that being present removed the event from the mental storage box
and dragged the reality of it into the daylight.  I found it one of
the most unpleasant experiences of my life, as did most of the people
I was with.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[John Francis]

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 08:39:03PM -0500, paul stenquist wrote:
> 
> Taking action against another country -- even one that engages in genocide -- 
> is frowned upon these days. Those who take action against the perpetrators 
> are themselves cast as the aggressors, so there is no longer any feasible way 
> to control those who choose to exterminate a portion of their population.

That's probably because the only organisations who could field forces that are
remotely capable of actually doing anything about such a situation generally
regard their armed forces as a tool to enforce their own political goals, not
as humanitarian outfits.  That's not too hard to understand - if you're going
to have your boys come home in body bags, they need to be fighting for a cause
that resonates with the decision makers.

Human nature being what it is, attempts to set up multi-national forces end
up with forces that are emasculated to the point of inneffectiveness because
all decisions have to be taken by committee, and you can never get concensus.


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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Bob Sullivan]

Doug,
You are right.  I would add that it is also a matter of age and experience.
At 16-20 you are immortal and have no life experience to speak of.
With 25-50 more years of experience, you recognize what was lost.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Doug Franklin
 wrote:
> On 2010-12-16 18:59, Bob W wrote:
>
>>> About the same as an average, with one or two older ones.  It was
>>> 16-20 years ago, so maybe there is something in the idea that
>>> youngsters today are inured.  I sincerely hope not.
>>
>> I think you have to bear in mind that the camps were liberated 65 years
>> ago.
>
> Personally, I think both play a role.  Over my life, I've known a dozen or
> two survivors of the camps, seen the tattooed serial number, heard the few
> stories they were willing to tell.  The odds are none of those teenagers had
> ever talked to an actual survivor of the camps, or even first generation
> descendants.  And the events happened before their parents were born in many
> cases.  But it was still academic.  I might be overwhelmed to actually visit
> one, but it's on my list of things to do.
>
> On top of that, you have their age and the associated "limitations" on their
> knowledge and experience.  The other side of the coin is that I'd done a lot
> of studying about modern warfare, known and discussed it with combatants
> from both sides, but all of it academic.  Standing in the glen Pickett's men
> crossed at Gettysburg and standing in the US cemetery at Omaha Beach,
> looking down at the beach from the bluffs, (and other places) I cried my
> eyes out.  It's just different when you can hear the ghosts.  But you have
> to listen for them.
>
> --
> Thanks,
> DougF (KG4LMZ)
>
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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Doug Franklin]

On 2010-12-16 18:59, Bob W wrote:


About the same as an average, with one or two older ones.  It was
16-20 years ago, so maybe there is something in the idea that
youngsters today are inured.  I sincerely hope not.


I think you have to bear in mind that the camps were liberated 65 years ago.


Personally, I think both play a role.  Over my life, I've known a dozen 
or two survivors of the camps, seen the tattooed serial number, heard 
the few stories they were willing to tell.  The odds are none of those 
teenagers had ever talked to an actual survivor of the camps, or even 
first generation descendants.  And the events happened before their 
parents were born in many cases.  But it was still academic.  I might be 
overwhelmed to actually visit one, but it's on my list of things to do.


On top of that, you have their age and the associated "limitations" on 
their knowledge and experience.  The other side of the coin is that I'd 
done a lot of studying about modern warfare, known and discussed it with 
combatants from both sides, but all of it academic.  Standing in the 
glen Pickett's men crossed at Gettysburg and standing in the US cemetery 
at Omaha Beach, looking down at the beach from the bluffs, (and other 
places) I cried my eyes out.  It's just different when you can hear the 
ghosts.  But you have to listen for them.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[paul stenquist]

On Dec 16, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Bob W wrote:

> [...]> > Yes of course Mike. Thanks. I must admit, they seemed quite stoic.
>> Were
>>> the groups of your quite young? In this day and age it seems
>> teenagers
>>> grow up almost too quickly what with the internet...
>> 
>> About the same as an average, with one or two older ones.  It was
>> 16-20 years ago, so maybe there is something in the idea that
>> youngsters today are inured.  I sincerely hope not.
> 
> I think you have to bear in mind that the camps were liberated 65 years ago.
> Putting that in relation to when I was 14-16 years old that would be events
> which took place in about 1905. Although people do have natural human
> sympathy with other people from that long ago, I would have found it
> difficult to relate to being flown overseas for a day and dragged around an
> exhibition about the 1915+ genocide of the Armenians, while events such as
> the Vietnam War, the Cambodian genocide, the war in Pakistan were immediate,
> happening there and then, and all over the papers & TV every day. 
> 
> I don't think people become inured but it's hard to see the value of this
> when so many things are happening right now which we're not doing much about
> and which seem to show that we have learned nothing from the genocides of
> the 20th century.

Taking action against another country -- even one that engages in genocide -- 
is frowned upon these days. Those who take action against the perpetrators are 
themselves cast as the aggressors, so there is no longer any feasible way to 
control those who choose to exterminate a portion of their population.

Paul


> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> 
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RE: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Bob W]

[...]> > Yes of course Mike. Thanks. I must admit, they seemed quite stoic.
> Were
> > the groups of your quite young? In this day and age it seems
> teenagers
> > grow up almost too quickly what with the internet...
> 
> About the same as an average, with one or two older ones.  It was
> 16-20 years ago, so maybe there is something in the idea that
> youngsters today are inured.  I sincerely hope not.

I think you have to bear in mind that the camps were liberated 65 years ago.
Putting that in relation to when I was 14-16 years old that would be events
which took place in about 1905. Although people do have natural human
sympathy with other people from that long ago, I would have found it
difficult to relate to being flown overseas for a day and dragged around an
exhibition about the 1915+ genocide of the Armenians, while events such as
the Vietnam War, the Cambodian genocide, the war in Pakistan were immediate,
happening there and then, and all over the papers & TV every day. 

I don't think people become inured but it's hard to see the value of this
when so many things are happening right now which we're not doing much about
and which seem to show that we have learned nothing from the genocides of
the 20th century.

Bob



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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[mike wilson]

On 15 December 2010 17:30, Cotty  wrote:
> On 15/12/10, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>Your group had remarkable composure;  the hammer blow of seeing the
>>belongings was enough to start the crying in the groups I took there and
>>only one of four groups made it to II.  The rest were to distraught to
>>even consider it.
>>
>>May I pass on the URL?
>
> Yes of course Mike. Thanks. I must admit, they seemed quite stoic. Were
> the groups of your quite young? In this day and age it seems teenagers
> grow up almost too quickly what with the internet...

About the same as an average, with one or two older ones.  It was
16-20 years ago, so maybe there is something in the idea that
youngsters today are inured.  I sincerely hope not.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[eckinator]

2010/12/16 eckinator :
>>
>> i'd guess a lot of those images would be from palestine, gaza, west
>> bank
>
> [...]... make Israel look pretty moderate by comparison

or did I get you wrong and you were in fact referring to the hatred
taught in Kindergarten by Hamas?
Ecke

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[eckinator]

Not to ignore you video, Mr Cottington, I will watch it as soon as I
get a chance
Thanks for sharing
Ecke

2010/12/14 Cotty :
> Hi folks,
>
> Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
> visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
> together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.
>
> 
>
> or direct on Vimeo:
>
> 
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
> --      http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
>
>
>
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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[eckinator]

2010/12/16 Subash :
> "Bob W"  wrote:
>>
>> more likely they've been so bombarded with similar images of current
>> events all their lives that they tune it out.
>
> i'd guess a lot of those images would be from palestine, gaza, west
> bank

doubt it - while there are bad things happening there, it is nowhere
near the images you get from darfur, ruanda, post-"liberation" iraq
(be it the mutual bombing to shreds of the liberated or the atrocities
committed by the liberators and their blackwatery cronies), also the
recently surfaced coverage of the Turkish genocide of the Armenian
people in the early 20th century, Mao's merry exterminism in the 60s
and so on and so forth... make Israel look pretty moderate by
comparison
Ecke

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 15/12/10, Paul Stenquist, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Very moving, sir. As always, very well shot and edited. The shadow of
>the plane moving across the Polish countryside at the beginning and the
>flaring orbs at the end bookend it dramatically.
>
>I'm left to wonder if the teenagers understand what they saw at
>Auschwitz. They appear to be rather unemotional. Perhaps they are too
>far removed from the horrors of the holocaust to feel it deeply. Perhaps
>it's as impersonal to them as the Spanish Inquisition was to our
>generation. Too soon we forget.

Thanks Paul. I expected tears and saw none except mine.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 15/12/10, Walter Gilbert, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I was struck by the reactions of the students you interviewed.  It just
>seemed to me that, while they did take away a lesson from the trip, the
>sheer enormity of the abomination was still a bit beyond their grasp.  I
>suppose at that age, I might have had much the same reaction.  It would
>be interesting to see their reactions on a return trip in 20 years, when
>they're able to fully process the scale of the atrocity.

Completely agree. Thanks Walt.


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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Subash]

On Wed, 15 Dec 2010 23:59:50 -
"Bob W"  wrote:

> > I'm left to wonder if the teenagers understand what they saw at
> > Auschwitz. They appear to be rather unemotional. Perhaps they are
> > too far removed from the horrors of the holocaust to feel it deeply.
> > Perhaps it's as impersonal to them as the Spanish Inquisition was to
> > our generation. Too soon we forget.
> 
> more likely they've been so bombarded with similar images of current
> events all their lives that they tune it out. 

i'd guess a lot of those images would be from palestine, gaza, west
bank


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RE: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Bob W]

> I'm left to wonder if the teenagers understand what they saw at
> Auschwitz. They appear to be rather unemotional. Perhaps they are too
> far removed from the horrors of the holocaust to feel it deeply.
> Perhaps it's as impersonal to them as the Spanish Inquisition was to
> our generation. Too soon we forget.

more likely they've been so bombarded with similar images of current events
all their lives that they tune it out. Nobody has done a damn thing to
prevent a repetition of it, as the many genocides & preventable famines of
the last 65 years show.

B


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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Paul Stenquist]

Very moving, sir. As always, very well shot and edited. The shadow of the plane 
moving across the Polish countryside at the beginning and the flaring orbs at 
the end bookend it dramatically.

I'm left to wonder if the teenagers understand what they saw at Auschwitz. They 
appear to be rather unemotional. Perhaps they are too far removed from the 
horrors of the holocaust to feel it deeply. Perhaps it's as impersonal to them 
as the Spanish Inquisition was to our generation. Too soon we forget.

Paul


On Dec 14, 2010, at 5:05 PM, Cotty wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
> visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
> together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.
> 
> 
> 
> or direct on Vimeo:
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
> --  http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
> 
> 
> 
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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Derby Chang]

On 15/12/2010 9:05 AM, Cotty wrote:

Hi folks,

Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.



or direct on Vimeo:



--


Cheers,
   Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_





Made me speechless


--

der...@iinet.net.au
http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc



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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Walter Gilbert]

 I watched it last night, Cotty.  Very sobering.

I was struck by the reactions of the students you interviewed.  It just 
seemed to me that, while they did take away a lesson from the trip, the 
sheer enormity of the abomination was still a bit beyond their grasp.  I 
suppose at that age, I might have had much the same reaction.  It would 
be interesting to see their reactions on a return trip in 20 years, when 
they're able to fully process the scale of the atrocity.


Thanks for sharing this.

-- Walt


On 12/14/2010 4:50 PM, Walter Gilbert wrote:
 Just stepping out, so I can't watch it just now.  But, I've 
bookmarked the page because I'm really looking forward to watching this.


-- Walt

On 12/14/2010 4:05 PM, Cotty wrote:

Hi folks,

Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.



or direct on Vimeo:



--


Cheers,
   Cotty


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||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_








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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 15/12/10, Bob Sullivan, discombobulated, unleashed:

>That's an excellent video, sad and sobering.
>It's made more powerful by the music/prayers and your voice overs.
>I don't think I'll ever get there but you really shared the experience.
>It should be mandatory viewing for our high school classes and
>all those adults who deny it happened.
>Thanks for sharing it with us.

Very kind words Bob, my thanks.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Bob Sullivan]

Cotty,
That's an excellent video, sad and sobering.
It's made more powerful by the music/prayers and your voice overs.
I don't think I'll ever get there but you really shared the experience.
It should be mandatory viewing for our high school classes and
all those adults who deny it happened.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Regards,  Bob Sullivan

On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Cotty  wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
> visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
> together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.
>
> 
>
> or direct on Vimeo:
>
> 
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
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> ||   (O)  |     People, Places, Pastiche
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> _
>
>
>
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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 15/12/10, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Your group had remarkable composure;  the hammer blow of seeing the
>belongings was enough to start the crying in the groups I took there and
>only one of four groups made it to II.  The rest were to distraught to
>even consider it.
>
>May I pass on the URL?

Yes of course Mike. Thanks. I must admit, they seemed quite stoic. Were
the groups of your quite young? In this day and age it seems teenagers
grow up almost too quickly what with the internet...

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 15/12/10, Boris Liberman, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Well done, sir. But I told you that already. Do you mind if I also share
>the link?

Thanks Boris, please do.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 14/12/10, Theodore Beilby, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Very powerfull Cotty. Is it ok to send links to others for them to see?

Thanks Ted, yes of course.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Cotty]

On 14/12/10, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I assume that it's OK to share the link?

Thanks, by all means.

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[mike wilson]

Cotty wrote:


Hi folks,

Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.



or direct on Vimeo:




I didn't find an answer, either.

Your group had remarkable composure;  the hammer blow of seeing the 
belongings was enough to start the crying in the groups I took there and 
only one of four groups made it to II.  The rest were to distraught to 
even consider it.


May I pass on the URL?

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Boris Liberman]

On 12/15/2010 12:05 AM, Cotty wrote:

Hi folks,

Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.



or direct on Vimeo:




Well done, sir. But I told you that already. Do you mind if I also share 
the link?


Boris

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Theodore Beilby]

Very powerfull Cotty. Is it ok to send links to others for them to see? 

Ted
 "The eye of the viewer becomes the eye of the Photographer." Albert Maysles 

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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Walter Gilbert]

 Just stepping out, so I can't watch it just now.  But, I've bookmarked 
the page because I'm really looking forward to watching this.


-- Walt

On 12/14/2010 4:05 PM, Cotty wrote:

Hi folks,

Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.



or direct on Vimeo:



--


Cheers,
   Cotty


___/\__
||   (O)  | People, Places, Pastiche
--  http://www.cottysnaps.com
_






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Re: OT - Auschwitz: A Cameraman's Cut

[Larry Colen]

On Dec 14, 2010, at 2:05 PM, Cotty wrote:

> Hi folks,
> 
> Last month I went to Auschwitz and filmed a large school party on a
> visit there. Some might be interested to see a 22 minute film I put
> together - my personal thoughts about what I saw and filmed.
> 
> 
> 
> or direct on Vimeo:
> 
> 

Very powerful and well shot.

I assume that it's OK to share the link?
> 

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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