Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-24 Thread frank theriault
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook publisher. They had found 
 my website (I gather) and wanted to know if I'd be willing to allow them to 
 use one of my photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook. Liberal 
 photo credit offered which would appear on the back of the cover.
 As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least in this country, the 
 book is delivered free to all listed city/town households and businesses.
 My website will appear as a part of my photo credit, so I agreed.

 Jack

 Cover:

 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549

 Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)

 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550

It's a lovely photo.  Congrats on it being chosen.  It's more than
deserving of the accolade.

cheers,
frank

-- 
Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-24 Thread steve harley

On 2010-11-23 16:14 , Jack Davis wrote:

What made the difference to me is the fact that the 'phone book is not being 
sold. As is true in most communities I expect, it's a free household/business 
distribution with the cover photo has no bearing on how many are distributed. 
In this case, all of those communities listed on the cover will be included.
Over time I've sold many images and for a variety of uses, but have made it a 
practice to give away images if for local non-profit or public service.


i assume you are aware that these directories are businesses whose main 
purpose is selling ads; they give the books away so their advertisers 
reach as many people as possible, so they can justify the advertising 
rates; in fact the recipients have no effective way to refuse the 
directories; they are a public service if they have some benefit over 
other types of directory; the independent publishers usually try to 
target specific communities or demographics to be more relevant; but 
they may also often cut corners such as having stale listings 
(sometimes more than a year old) or having type so small that older 
people (one of the main groups still using paper directories) can't read 
any but the bigger, paid-for listings


one plus for you is that the cover is one of the few creative aspects of 
the directory, so the (often local) designers have a real incentive to 
make it attractive, within its limits


so there's some background; i still think it's a compliment to your 
photography


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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-24 Thread Jack Davis
Grateful for comments, Frank.

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/24/10, frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: frank theriault knarftheria...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 11:16 AM
 On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Jack
 Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook
 publisher. They had found my website (I gather) and wanted
 to know if I'd be willing to allow them to use one of my
 photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook.
 Liberal photo credit offered which would appear on the back
 of the cover.
  As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least
 in this country, the book is delivered free to all listed
 city/town households and businesses.
  My website will appear as a part of my photo credit,
 so I agreed.
 
  Jack
 
  Cover:
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549
 
  Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550
 
 It's a lovely photo.  Congrats on it being
 chosen.  It's more than
 deserving of the accolade.
 
 cheers,
 frank
 
 -- 
 Sharpness is a bourgeois concept.  -Henri
 Cartier-Bresson
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-24 Thread Jack Davis
While I'm semi notorious in this area, my name and website are more than enough 
payment.

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/24/10, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote:

 From: steve harley p...@paper-ape.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 24, 2010, 12:11 PM
 On 2010-11-23 16:14 , Jack Davis
 wrote:
  What made the difference to me is the fact that the
 'phone book is not being sold. As is true in most
 communities I expect, it's a free household/business
 distribution with the cover photo has no bearing on how many
 are distributed. In this case, all of those communities
 listed on the cover will be included.
  Over time I've sold many images and for a variety of
 uses, but have made it a practice to give away images if for
 local non-profit or public service.
 
 i assume you are aware that these directories are
 businesses whose main purpose is selling ads; they give the
 books away so their advertisers reach as many people as
 possible, so they can justify the advertising rates; in fact
 the recipients have no effective way to refuse the
 directories; they are a public service if they have some
 benefit over other types of directory; the independent
 publishers usually try to target specific communities or
 demographics to be more relevant; but they may also often
 cut corners such as having stale listings (sometimes more
 than a year old) or having type so small that older people
 (one of the main groups still using paper directories) can't
 read any but the bigger, paid-for listings
 
 one plus for you is that the cover is one of the few
 creative aspects of the directory, so the (often local)
 designers have a real incentive to make it attractive,
 within its limits
 
 so there's some background; i still think it's a compliment
 to your photography
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-23 Thread John Sessoms

From: Jack Davis


Oh, I think when the users see that cover they'll feverishly examine
every inch of that book looking for the cover photog. yeah right!!
If it were to be used to promote a product for financial gain or
itself be sold, I'd have, of course, charged for furnishing the image
which went to them as an email attachment. Guess I'm just too tired
to be concerned. :-/ Thanks for commenting, Darren!


Still, you ought to get at least some token payment.

When I got my image accepted by Our State North Carolina magazine back 
in 2005, I got $50  5 copies of the issue it appeared in.


If your image is going to appear on the cover, I hope you at least get 
free copies of the book.


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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-23 Thread Jack Davis
What made the difference to me is the fact that the 'phone book is not being 
sold. As is true in most communities I expect, it's a free household/business 
distribution with the cover photo has no bearing on how many are distributed. 
In this case, all of those communities listed on the cover will be included.
Over time I've sold many images and for a variety of uses, but have made it a 
practice to give away images if for local non-profit or public service. 

--- On Tue, 11/23/10, John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com wrote:

 From: John Sessoms jsessoms...@nc.rr.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 2:17 PM
 From: Jack Davis
 
  Oh, I think when the users see that cover they'll
 feverishly examine
  every inch of that book looking for the cover photog.
 yeah right!!
  If it were to be used to promote a product for
 financial gain or
  itself be sold, I'd have, of course, charged for
 furnishing the image
  which went to them as an email attachment. Guess I'm
 just too tired
  to be concerned. :-/ Thanks for commenting, Darren!
 
 Still, you ought to get at least some token payment.
 
 When I got my image accepted by Our State North Carolina
 magazine back in 2005, I got $50  5 copies of the issue
 it appeared in.
 
 If your image is going to appear on the cover, I hope you
 at least get free copies of the book.
 
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 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-18 Thread David Mann
What a beautiful photo.  It's a pity they cropped it, they should have printed 
the book in landscape format.

I hope they pay the going rate.

Dave

On Nov 18, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Jack Davis wrote:

 Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook publisher. They had found 
 my website (I gather) and wanted to know if I'd be willing to allow them to 
 use one of my photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook. Liberal 
 photo credit offered which would appear on the back of the cover.
 As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least in this country, the 
 book is delivered free to all listed city/town households and businesses.
 My website will appear as a part of my photo credit, so I agreed.
 
 Jack
 
 Cover:
 
 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549
 
 Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)  
 
 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550


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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-18 Thread Jack Davis
Thanks, David! The going rate in this case is photo credit inside the front 
cover. The book is provided free to households and businesses in those towns 
listed on the cover. As you point out, the cropped gaudy cover isn't the best 
presentation. ;)

Jack

--- On Thu, 11/18/10, David Mann d...@multisport.net.nz wrote:

 From: David Mann d...@multisport.net.nz
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Thursday, November 18, 2010, 12:32 AM
 What a beautiful photo.  It's a
 pity they cropped it, they should have printed the book in
 landscape format.
 
 I hope they pay the going rate.
 
 Dave
 
 On Nov 18, 2010, at 2:50 AM, Jack Davis wrote:
 
  Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook
 publisher. They had found my website (I gather) and wanted
 to know if I'd be willing to allow them to use one of my
 photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook.
 Liberal photo credit offered which would appear on the back
 of the cover.
  As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least
 in this country, the book is delivered free to all listed
 city/town households and businesses.
  My website will appear as a part of my photo credit,
 so I agreed.
  
  Jack
  
  Cover:
  
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549
  
  Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)  
  
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550
 
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Boris Liberman

They spoiled the beautiful picture...

On 11/17/2010 3:50 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook publisher. They had found my 
website (I gather) and wanted to know if I'd be willing to allow them to use 
one of my photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook. Liberal photo 
credit offered which would appear on the back of the cover.
As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least in this country, the 
book is delivered free to all listed city/town households and businesses.
My website will appear as a part of my photo credit, so I agreed.

Jack

Cover:

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549

Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)

http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550









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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
I know! It's a study in tacky! I expected this, so it doesn't either surprise 
or bother me.
IOW, I'm a free advertising whore.

Thanks, Boris!

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 7:03 AM
 They spoiled the beautiful
 picture...
 
 On 11/17/2010 3:50 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
  Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook
 publisher. They had found my website (I gather) and wanted
 to know if I'd be willing to allow them to use one of my
 photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook.
 Liberal photo credit offered which would appear on the back
 of the cover.
  As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least
 in this country, the book is delivered free to all listed
 city/town households and businesses.
  My website will appear as a part of my photo credit,
 so I agreed.
 
  Jack
 
  Cover:
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549
 
  Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread CheekyGeek
And the photo credit appears WHERE?

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska
-- 
Nothing is sure, except Death and Pentaxes.

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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
This is what they term a preliminary mock copy for my info. As I mentioned, 
Darren, my bio will appear inside the front cover. They offered me as much 
space as I wanted, but I only asked for my name and website address.
When asked, they told that the book will be delivered sometime either in Dec or 
early Jan. 

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, CheekyGeek cheekyg...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: CheekyGeek cheekyg...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 8:04 AM
 And the photo credit appears WHERE?
 
 Darren Addy
 Kearney, Nebraska
 -- 
 Nothing is sure, except Death and Pentaxes.
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread CheekyGeek
Well congrats on them choosing your photograph. It is indeed worthy of
appreciation by the wide audience it will receive. But as for the
value of the photo credit and website address nowhere in the proximity
of said photograph, I'd have to say it is near nil. If you have Google
Analytics on your web site and have a measureable change in hits once
the phone book comes out - due to that alone, I'd be incredibly
surprised. Of course, only ONE important person needs to see it to
make it worthwhile. Especially given its location, I think I would
have tried to give the interested finder of the bio a bit more to chew
on than name and web site address. Put another way, if all I was
asking for was name and website address, I would have asked for it to
be on the cover or in the photograph itself. For free usage of such a
good image, I don't think that would have been too much to ask (or
receive) at all.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska




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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Larry Colen

On Nov 17, 2010, at 7:12 AM, Jack Davis wrote:

 I know! It's a study in tacky! I expected this, so it doesn't either 
 surprise or bother me.
 IOW, I'm a free advertising whore.

I wondered what kind of whore you were.  But, if you're free, you're a slut, 
not a whore, you've got to make money to call yourself a pro.


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread CheekyGeek
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
 I wondered what kind of whore you were.  But, if you're free, you're a slut, 
 not a whore, you've got to make money to call yourself a pro.



I know dialog and that is particularly harsh.
 - When Harry Met Sally.

-- 
Nothing is sure, except Death and Pentaxes.

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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
Oh, I think when the users see that cover they'll feverishly examine every inch 
of that book looking for the cover photog. yeah right!!
If it were to be used to promote a product for financial gain or itself be 
sold, I'd have, of course, charged for furnishing the image which went to them 
as an email attachment. Guess I'm just too tired to be concerned. :-/
Thanks for commenting, Darren!

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, CheekyGeek cheekyg...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: CheekyGeek cheekyg...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 8:50 AM
 Well congrats on them choosing your
 photograph. It is indeed worthy of
 appreciation by the wide audience it will receive. But as
 for the
 value of the photo credit and website address nowhere in
 the proximity
 of said photograph, I'd have to say it is near nil. If you
 have Google
 Analytics on your web site and have a measureable change in
 hits once
 the phone book comes out - due to that alone, I'd be
 incredibly
 surprised. Of course, only ONE important person needs to
 see it to
 make it worthwhile. Especially given its location, I think
 I would
 have tried to give the interested finder of the bio a bit
 more to chew
 on than name and web site address. Put another way, if all
 I was
 asking for was name and website address, I would have asked
 for it to
 be on the cover or in the photograph itself. For free usage
 of such a
 good image, I don't think that would have been too much to
 ask (or
 receive) at all.
 
 Darren Addy
 Kearney, Nebraska
 
 
 
 
 -- 
 Nothing is sure, except Death and Pentaxes.
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
Oh, I'm planning on an extreme rush of business as a direct result of this 
book..sputter!! 
Maybe I'm an indirect whore. It's my condom philosophy.

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:

 From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 9:03 AM
 
 On Nov 17, 2010, at 7:12 AM, Jack Davis wrote:
 
  I know! It's a study in tacky! I expected this, so
 it doesn't either surprise or bother me.
  IOW, I'm a free advertising whore.
 
 I wondered what kind of whore you were.  But, if
 you're free, you're a slut, not a whore, you've got to make
 money to call yourself a pro.
 
 
 --
 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
 sent from i4est
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
I'll bet there are others who would say, I'll have what he's having. ;)

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, CheekyGeek cheekyg...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: CheekyGeek cheekyg...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 9:11 AM
 On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 11:03 AM,
 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
 wrote:
  I wondered what kind of whore you were.  But, if
 you're free, you're a slut, not a whore, you've got to make
 money to call yourself a pro.
 
 
 
 I know dialog and that is particularly harsh.
                
              - When
 Harry Met Sally.
 
 -- 
 Nothing is sure, except Death and Pentaxes.
 
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 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Daniel J. Matyola
Nice image!  I can see why they asked to use it.

Dan
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola

On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook publisher. They had found 
 my website (I gather) and wanted to know if I'd be willing to allow them to 
 use one of my photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook. Liberal 
 photo credit offered which would appear on the back of the cover.
 As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least in this country, the 
 book is delivered free to all listed city/town households and businesses.
 My website will appear as a part of my photo credit, so I agreed.

 Jack

 Cover:

 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549

 Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)

 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550






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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread steve harley

On 2010-11-17 09:50 , CheekyGeek wrote:

Put another way, if all I was
asking for was name and website address, I would have asked for it to
be on the cover or in the photograph itself. For free usage of such a
good image, I don't think that would have been too much to ask (or
receive) at all.


i'm a consultant on telephone directory production; i've seen such 
covers from all over the US; smaller directories like to find local 
color for their covers, but they _never_ put a credit on the cover


but it's still nice exposure

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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
Thanks, Dan! After what they did to it I was reluctant to claim it..NOT! ;)

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Daniel J. Matyola danmaty...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 11:03 AM
 Nice image!  I can see why they
 asked to use it.
 
 Dan
 http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
 
 On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 8:50 AM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook
 publisher. They had found my website (I gather) and wanted
 to know if I'd be willing to allow them to use one of my
 photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012 Yellowbook.
 Liberal photo credit offered which would appear on the back
 of the cover.
  As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least
 in this country, the book is delivered free to all listed
 city/town households and businesses.
  My website will appear as a part of my photo credit,
 so I agreed.
 
  Jack
 
  Cover:
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549
 
  Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
It just wasn't that big a deal to me! They talked up all of my work and chose 
one for the book. That's all leaves me feeling semi positive. ;)

Jack
--- On Wed, 11/17/10, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote:

 From: steve harley p...@paper-ape.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 11:16 AM
 On 2010-11-17 09:50 , CheekyGeek
 wrote:
  Put another way, if all I was
  asking for was name and website address, I would have
 asked for it to
  be on the cover or in the photograph itself. For free
 usage of such a
  good image, I don't think that would have been too
 much to ask (or
  receive) at all.
 
 i'm a consultant on telephone directory production; i've
 seen such covers from all over the US; smaller directories
 like to find local color for their covers, but they
 _never_ put a credit on the cover
 
 but it's still nice exposure
 
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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Brian Walters
On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 05:50 -0800, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
wrote:
 Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook publisher. They had
 found my website (I gather) and wanted to know if I'd be willing to allow
 them to use one of my photos for the cover of the local 2011-2012
 Yellowbook. Liberal photo credit offered which would appear on the back
 of the cover.
 As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least in this country,
 the book is delivered free to all listed city/town households and
 businesses.
 My website will appear as a part of my photo credit, so I agreed.
 
 Jack
 
 Cover:
 
 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549
 
 Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)  
 
 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550
 



Geeze, there's not much of the photo left after all of the text and
advertising, and interesting that in this digital age it's a film camera
that created the image.

Congratulations.  All publicity is good publicity.


Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/

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Re: PESO: Yellowbook

2010-11-17 Thread Jack Davis
By far the majority of my saved images were shot with film and I can't 
imagine digital inventory ever overtaking my film archives. Let me say, 
however, that I wish I could re-shoot them digitally under the same conditions. 
I'd enjoy doing it all again.

Jack

--- On Wed, 11/17/10, Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 From: Brian Walters supera1...@fastmail.fm
 Subject: Re: PESO: Yellowbook
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Wednesday, November 17, 2010, 7:35 PM
 On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 05:50 -0800,
 Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Received a call from a Sacramento based 'phonebook
 publisher. They had
  found my website (I gather) and wanted to know if I'd
 be willing to allow
  them to use one of my photos for the cover of the
 local 2011-2012
  Yellowbook. Liberal photo credit offered which would
 appear on the back
  of the cover.
  As I'm sure is the case virtually everywhere, at least
 in this country,
  the book is delivered free to all listed city/town
 households and
  businesses.
  My website will appear as a part of my photo credit,
 so I agreed.
  
  Jack
  
  Cover:
  
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=549
  
  Photo: (LX, 24mm Takumar)  
  
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=550
  
 
 
 
 Geeze, there's not much of the photo left after all of the
 text and
 advertising, and interesting that in this digital age it's
 a film camera
 that created the image.
 
 Congratulations.  All publicity is good publicity.
 
 
 Cheers
 
 Brian
 
 ++
 Brian Walters
 Western Sydney Australia
 http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/
 
 -- 
 
 
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 http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different...
 
 
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