Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 9:59 PM, Anthony Farr farranth...@gmail.com wrote: Having just seen your picture of the actual stand, I think you need to put a little more twist resistance into the lower half, because nothing is bracing the legs below the 'X'. Sorry i guess the word would be spreading apart more than buckling. I think the main problem with the small horizontal brace, the one that separated is the 1 1/2 difference in flatness with the X pieces not being notched. The one end is screwed flat against the one X piece were as the other end is toe nailed(screwed) into the other X piece. This is what let go and spread, the toe nailed end. From the answers received so far, it look like if i do a 3/4 notch on both pieces and at least one lag bolt with some screws, then add an upper and lower X member brace that will now be flush should do the trick. Thanks all, i now have a small winter project to stay busy.:-) Dave No stringers there, so maybe just a diagonal brace from end to end attached directly to the legs. Your horizontal plate across the ends underneath the barrel should be enough to stop the 'X' spreading, but your joining might need beefing up, consider gang-nails across the joint. If the buckling persists then determine which corners are spreading apart and tie those corners with rod or wire, after straightening them of course. regards, Anthony On 22 October 2012 12:39, Anthony Farr farranth...@gmail.com wrote: While I'm not sure what you mean by buckled, looking at the picture suggests that it might have settled with some spreading, some twisting and some leaning. Is that the case? That structure seems to have all its strength focused at the cross point, and depends for its strength upon mechanical friction at its junction. As a sawhorse it's probably designed to be folded flat. I'd be inclined to attach some horizontal ties between the feet of each 'X' to resist spreading, and put in a diagonal brace between the top and bottom stringer (is that the correct name?) on each side. Don't forget to attach the each brace where it crosses the centre leg, you might need spacer blocks for this, or you might find brackets that'll bridge the gap. You should be able to park a (small) car on it then. regards, Anthony -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
On 22/10/2012 6:42 AM, David J Brooks wrote: Sorry i guess the word would be spreading apart more than buckling. I think the main problem with the small horizontal brace, the one that separated is the 1 1/2 difference in flatness with the X pieces not being notched. The one end is screwed flat against the one X piece were as the other end is toe nailed(screwed) into the other X piece. This is what let go and spread, the toe nailed end. From the answers received so far, it look like if i do a 3/4 notch on both pieces and at least one lag bolt with some screws, then add an upper and lower X member brace that will now be flush should do the trick. Thanks all, i now have a small winter project to stay busy.:-) Dave Notch it 1/2 the thickness of the planks (they look like treated 2x6), and then glue it with PL Premium (the bond will be stronger than the wood) and then use nails for the mechanical fasteners (nails are stronger than screws). Also, put a brace from leg to leg below the cross. If the wood it pressure treated, use galvanized everything for any metal that will be coming in contact with the wood. -- William Robb -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:30 AM, William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks all, i now have a small winter project to stay busy.:-) Dave Notch it 1/2 the thickness of the planks (they look like treated 2x6), and then glue it with PL Premium (the bond will be stronger than the wood) and then use nails for the mechanical fasteners (nails are stronger than screws). Also, put a brace from leg to leg below the cross. If the wood it pressure treated, use galvanized everything for any metal that will be coming in contact with the wood. -- William Robb Thanks Bill Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:32 AM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:30 AM, William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks all, i now have a small winter project to stay busy.:-) Dave Notch it 1/2 the thickness of the planks (they look like treated 2x6), and then glue it with PL Premium (the bond will be stronger than the wood) and then use nails for the mechanical fasteners (nails are stronger than screws). Also, put a brace from leg to leg below the cross. If the wood it pressure treated, use galvanized everything for any metal that will be coming in contact with the wood. -- William Robb Thanks Bill I'd just use a few rolls of duct tape, and if necessary some really big C-clamps if anything rattles. I think my methods must be sound because nobody ever has to come back to me for more building advice. -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Bruce Walker bruce.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:32 AM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:30 AM, William Robb anotherdrunken...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks all, i now have a small winter project to stay busy.:-) Dave Notch it 1/2 the thickness of the planks (they look like treated 2x6), and then glue it with PL Premium (the bond will be stronger than the wood) and then use nails for the mechanical fasteners (nails are stronger than screws). Also, put a brace from leg to leg below the cross. If the wood it pressure treated, use galvanized everything for any metal that will be coming in contact with the wood. -- William Robb Thanks Bill I'd just use a few rolls of duct tape, and if necessary some really big C-clamps if anything rattles. I think my methods must be sound because nobody ever has to come back to me for more building advice. Finally someone who builds like me Dave -- -bmw -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
Notching will hold more weight than simply screwing them together. 40 Gallons of water is 320 pounds. Notching and lag bolts should be fine. On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry about this folks, but i'm sure someone here will have an answer. Last year, after i had some trees cut down, i built an X frame sawhorse log cutter, like number 2 in this links:http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Sawbuck-for-Cutting-Firewood, so i decided to build a similar one for my 40 gallon rain barrel i built as it looked like it would be sturdy enough to hold it on its side. About 1/2 way through summer it buckled a bit out but did not fall apart. I only screwed the X member in, i did not do a notch and secure. I have decided this winter i will take it apart, the reason for using screws instead of nails, and notch out the parts that meet at the X, i suppose it would be 3/4 on each piece of the 2x4, then put two 1/4 or 3/8 carrage bolts and some screws, as well as the side braces. question now is, would you think that by notching out the X pieces and using 1-2 lag bolts plus a few screws would hold 40 US gallons of waters, weight./?? Dave -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
Wouldn't lag bolts and some bracing, without notching, be at least as strong and a lot easier? Rick http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: David Parsons parsons.da...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question Notching will hold more weight than simply screwing them together. 40 Gallons of water is 320 pounds. Notching and lag bolts should be fine. On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry about this folks, but i'm sure someone here will have an answer. Last year, after i had some trees cut down, i built an X frame sawhorse log cutter, like number 2 in this links:http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Sawbuck-for-Cutting-Firewood, so i decided to build a similar one for my 40 gallon rain barrel i built as it looked like it would be sturdy enough to hold it on its side. About 1/2 way through summer it buckled a bit out but did not fall apart. I only screwed the X member in, i did not do a notch and secure. I have decided this winter i will take it apart, the reason for using screws instead of nails, and notch out the parts that meet at the X, i suppose it would be 3/4 on each piece of the 2x4, then put two 1/4 or 3/8 carrage bolts and some screws, as well as the side braces. question now is, would you think that by notching out the X pieces and using 1-2 lag bolts plus a few screws would hold 40 US gallons of waters, weight./?? Dave -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Wouldn't lag bolts and some bracing, without notching, be at least as strong and a lot easier? Rick Here is the original stand:http://www.flickr.com/photos/djbrooks/8109428323/in/photostream The two small cross members, the ones that the barrel actually sits on, are the ones that spread apart about an inch or so. Dave http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: David Parsons parsons.da...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question Notching will hold more weight than simply screwing them together. 40 Gallons of water is 320 pounds. Notching and lag bolts should be fine. On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry about this folks, but i'm sure someone here will have an answer. Last year, after i had some trees cut down, i built an X frame sawhorse log cutter, like number 2 in this links:http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Sawbuck-for-Cutting-Firewood, so i decided to build a similar one for my 40 gallon rain barrel i built as it looked like it would be sturdy enough to hold it on its side. About 1/2 way through summer it buckled a bit out but did not fall apart. I only screwed the X member in, i did not do a notch and secure. I have decided this winter i will take it apart, the reason for using screws instead of nails, and notch out the parts that meet at the X, i suppose it would be 3/4 on each piece of the 2x4, then put two 1/4 or 3/8 carrage bolts and some screws, as well as the side braces. question now is, would you think that by notching out the X pieces and using 1-2 lag bolts plus a few screws would hold 40 US gallons of waters, weight./?? Dave -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- David Parsons Photography http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com Aloha Photographer Photoblog http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/ -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- Documenting Life in Rural Ontario. www.caughtinmotion.com http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/ York Region, Ontario, Canada -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
Notching would make it easier to put a brace across the bottom to stiffen it more. From: David J Brooks On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 1:17 PM, Rick Womer rwomer1...@yahoo.com wrote: Wouldn't lag bolts and some bracing, without notching, be at least as strong and a lot easier? Rick Here is the original stand:http://www.flickr.com/photos/djbrooks/8109428323/in/photostream The two small cross members, the ones that the barrel actually sits on, are the ones that spread apart about an inch or so. Dave http://photo.net/photos/RickW - Original Message - From: David Parsons parsons.da...@gmail.com To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net Cc: Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 11:46 AM Subject: Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question Notching will hold more weight than simply screwing them together. 40 Gallons of water is 320 pounds. Notching and lag bolts should be fine. On Sun, Oct 21, 2012 at 11:42 AM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry about this folks, but i'm sure someone here will have an answer. Last year, after i had some trees cut down, i built an X frame sawhorse log cutter, like number 2 in this links:http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Sawbuck-for-Cutting-Firewood, so i decided to build a similar one for my 40 gallon rain barrel i built as it looked like it would be sturdy enough to hold it on its side. About 1/2 way through summer it buckled a bit out but did not fall apart. I only screwed the X member in, i did not do a notch and secure. I have decided this winter i will take it apart, the reason for using screws instead of nails, and notch out the parts that meet at the X, i suppose it would be 3/4 on each piece of the 2x4, then put two 1/4 or 3/8 carrage bolts and some screws, as well as the side braces. question now is, would you think that by notching out the X pieces and using 1-2 lag bolts plus a few screws would hold 40 US gallons of waters, weight./?? Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
While I'm not sure what you mean by buckled, looking at the picture suggests that it might have settled with some spreading, some twisting and some leaning. Is that the case? That structure seems to have all its strength focused at the cross point, and depends for its strength upon mechanical friction at its junction. As a sawhorse it's probably designed to be folded flat. I'd be inclined to attach some horizontal ties between the feet of each 'X' to resist spreading, and put in a diagonal brace between the top and bottom stringer (is that the correct name?) on each side. Don't forget to attach the each brace where it crosses the centre leg, you might need spacer blocks for this, or you might find brackets that'll bridge the gap. You should be able to park a (small) car on it then. regards, Anthony On 22 October 2012 02:42, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry about this folks, but i'm sure someone here will have an answer. Last year, after i had some trees cut down, i built an X frame sawhorse log cutter, like number 2 in this links:http://www.wikihow.com/Build-a-Sawbuck-for-Cutting-Firewood, so i decided to build a similar one for my 40 gallon rain barrel i built as it looked like it would be sturdy enough to hold it on its side. About 1/2 way through summer it buckled a bit out but did not fall apart. I only screwed the X member in, i did not do a notch and secure. I have decided this winter i will take it apart, the reason for using screws instead of nails, and notch out the parts that meet at the X, i suppose it would be 3/4 on each piece of the 2x4, then put two 1/4 or 3/8 carrage bolts and some screws, as well as the side braces. question now is, would you think that by notching out the X pieces and using 1-2 lag bolts plus a few screws would hold 40 US gallons of waters, weight./?? Dave -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Really OT, Structural engineering question
Having just seen your picture of the actual stand, I think you need to put a little more twist resistance into the lower half, because nothing is bracing the legs below the 'X'. No stringers there, so maybe just a diagonal brace from end to end attached directly to the legs. Your horizontal plate across the ends underneath the barrel should be enough to stop the 'X' spreading, but your joining might need beefing up, consider gang-nails across the joint. If the buckling persists then determine which corners are spreading apart and tie those corners with rod or wire, after straightening them of course. regards, Anthony On 22 October 2012 12:39, Anthony Farr farranth...@gmail.com wrote: While I'm not sure what you mean by buckled, looking at the picture suggests that it might have settled with some spreading, some twisting and some leaning. Is that the case? That structure seems to have all its strength focused at the cross point, and depends for its strength upon mechanical friction at its junction. As a sawhorse it's probably designed to be folded flat. I'd be inclined to attach some horizontal ties between the feet of each 'X' to resist spreading, and put in a diagonal brace between the top and bottom stringer (is that the correct name?) on each side. Don't forget to attach the each brace where it crosses the centre leg, you might need spacer blocks for this, or you might find brackets that'll bridge the gap. You should be able to park a (small) car on it then. regards, Anthony -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
