Re: Stop Bath
I processed my first roll of film in 1967, and since then have processed countless rolls, many emulsions, and used numerous developers, and have always used a stop bat. I've used many dilutions of stop bath 'cause I'm always in a hurry (I Hate Developing Film) and often don't measure precisely. Never had a pin hole. Is this just a theoretical problem, or does it really happen to some people? Paul Stenquist wrote: Isn't venegar pretty much the same thing as stop bath (ascetic acid), athough in diution? I use about one teaspoon of stop bath per quart. Smells exactly like vinegar. However, when developing film, I do a quick water rinse before pouring in the stop bath. I think that reduces the possibility of pinholing. Paul -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/darkroom-rentals/index.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
- Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff Subject: Re: Stop Bath I processed my first roll of film in 1967, and since then have processed countless rolls, many emulsions, and used numerous developers, and have always used a stop bat. I've used many dilutions of stop bath 'cause I'm always in a hurry (I Hate Developing Film) and often don't measure precisely. Never had a pin hole. Is this just a theoretical problem, or does it really happen to some people? It is a very real problem with Kodalith, and can also be a problem with a very high PH developer if the stopbath is too strong. I have only seen pinholes with Kodalith, however. William Robb - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
I had the pinhole problem when developing the old Panatomic-X. As a result, I have only used a water rinse, I fill, invert twice and dump. Bob Rapp - Original Message - From: Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 17, 2002 1:39 AM Subject: Re: Stop Bath I processed my first roll of film in 1967, and since then have processed countless rolls, many emulsions, and used numerous developers, and have always used a stop bat. I've used many dilutions of stop bath 'cause I'm always in a hurry (I Hate Developing Film) and often don't measure precisely. Never had a pin hole. Is this just a theoretical problem, or does it really happen to some people? Paul Stenquist wrote: Isn't venegar pretty much the same thing as stop bath (ascetic acid), athough in diution? I use about one teaspoon of stop bath per quart. Smells exactly like vinegar. However, when developing film, I do a quick water rinse before pouring in the stop bath. I think that reduces the possibility of pinholing. Paul -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/darkroom-rentals/index.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
Thanks everyone for replying to my original message. I'll continue to use tap water since I don't re-use fixer and I like the results I'm getting. Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
One more shot at this topic, if I may, Someone may have already mentioed this but I've found that right after my fix starts to go bad, I use it for my stop bath. It still keeps disolving unexposed silver, albeit at a less effective level, but it allows my final fix to last about 3-4 times longer than it otherwise would. my 2 farthings worth...Bob --- Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks everyone for replying to my original message. I'll continue to use tap water since I don't re-use fixer and I like the results I'm getting. Christian Skofteland [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . = What boots up must come down. Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage http://sports.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
I've had it happen, but not in the last twenty-five years. I think I probably was mixing the stop bath a bit on the acidic side back in the seventies. It probably had something to do with the stuff I was ingesting. But I just got in the habit of the quick water rinse. I think it also adds about 5 or 10 seconds to my development time, so it has become part of the process. You know how that is Shel, one of those things you leave in place if everything else is working okay. Can't say for sure that there are any real benefits. (Aside from the fact that it keeps the stop bath fresh and allows me to reuse it in the print tray.) Paul Shel Belinkoff wrote: I processed my first roll of film in 1967, and since then have processed countless rolls, many emulsions, and used numerous developers, and have always used a stop bat. I've used many dilutions of stop bath 'cause I'm always in a hurry (I Hate Developing Film) and often don't measure precisely. Never had a pin hole. Is this just a theoretical problem, or does it really happen to some people? Paul Stenquist wrote: Isn't venegar pretty much the same thing as stop bath (ascetic acid), athough in diution? I use about one teaspoon of stop bath per quart. Smells exactly like vinegar. However, when developing film, I do a quick water rinse before pouring in the stop bath. I think that reduces the possibility of pinholing. Paul -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/ http://home.earthlink.net/~belinkoff/darkroom-rentals/index.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
For negs I just use tap water for one minute, and then two more tanks of water to rinse, this works for me since I dump my fix. I have heard that water allows some developer to stay on the negatives and bring out the highlightsas the less exposed areas don't use the deveolper as quick. I don't know if it is true but it always sounded good to me. Geoff - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
The primary reason for using water over an acid stop bath is that, on some emulsions, there is a danger of developing pin holes due to the liberation on gas as a result on neutralising the alkaline developer. Bob - Original Message - From: Bill D. Casselberry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2002 2:51 AM Subject: Re: Stop Bath Christian wrote: Just a novice question about BW film development: What are your choices for stop baths? I learned from my dad who just uses tap water for 1 minute. Preferences vary - water bath stop works by massively diluting any residual developer and real stop bath works by being acidic and stopping the reaction in its tracks chemically. Stop bath is cheap easy effective, so IMHO it makes little sense not to use it. I'll leave the rest to others w/ greater experience. Bill - Bill D. Casselberry ; Photography on the Oregon Coast http://www.orednet.org/~bcasselb [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
Perhaps we should all stop and bathe on occasion. (Sorry. It's just Friday.) Collin -- --- Get over it. Dr. Laura -- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
I'm a white vinegar girl, myself. It works and it doesn't bite. stop bath is a nasty chemical. The developers and fix are bad enough. just a couple of tablespoons to a quart of water seems adequate to me. Better for you, better for the environement. annsan Christian Skofteland wrote: Just a novice question about BW film development: What are your choices for stop baths? I learned from my dad who just uses tap water for 1 minute. How does this choice effect the final processed negative? Thanks Christian - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop Bath
On 15 Mar 2002 at 22:02, Ann Sanfedele wrote: I'm a white vinegar girl, myself. It works and it doesn't bite. stop bath is a nasty chemical. Huh? It's the same stuff, unless you're talking glacial acetic acid, which is the same stuff, just *very* concentrated. The developers and fix are bad enough. just a couple of tablespoons to a quart of water seems adequate to me. Better for you, better for the environement. Again, white vinegar = dilute acetic acid, though probably not as pure as you would get from Kodak or Ilford. Also, a couple of tablespoons probably isn't enough. In that scenario, you're basically using a water stop. OTOH, that might not be a bad thing. tv - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Stop bath and vinegar
I don't even use selenium toner on a regular basis, since that's a pollutant unless you live near the ocean. Care to expand upon that Mike? What's one's proximity to the ocean got to do with selenium toner being a pollutant? Shel, Because selenium is a pollutant in fresh water but not in seawater. If you live in an area where your "gray water" (municipal term for used household water that doesn't need to go to the septic tank or sewer) sheds to the ocean, you can put selenium toner down the drain without a care--selenium occurs naturally in seawater anyway and a miniscule bit more won't hurt anything. However, if you live in an arid region where gray water is processed and recovered or goes into the soil and thence to the water table, it's not really a nice thing to do to add selenium to it. Most selenium poisoning of water, however, is not the result of the inconsequential amounts used by art photographers--it's the result of irrigation in dry areas. By pumping water up from wells, watering crops with it and then letting it settle down into the water table again, selenium is "leached" out of the soil and into the water, and the concentrations of selenium can get unacceptable. This is just a byproduct of filtering the water through the soil again and again, not the result of Mad Scientist Zoner photographers maniacally tossing spent toner down their household drains. Still, it's not something I want to do, just for form's sake. There are a number of papers that look just fine without toning and aren't much improved with toning--my standard paper, Agfa MCC, being one of them--so I just use those. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org.
Re: Stop bath and vinegar
Well, I guess for 20 odd years then the prints have just been developing a bit more in the fix. I use rapid fix, tho, and that's pretty strong so I think it stops quickly enough. Never refresh chemicals, always start new. Annsan, You've been stopping your prints with water. No harm in that. Lots of photographers I know do that as part of their usual method. I think you can dispense with the tablespoon of vinegar, though, as it's not having any effect. As to whether you should replace the tray during your printing session, try this: after you finish a session, place the tray of water aside somewhere and let it evaporate over the next few weeks. When it's finished evaporating, you'll be able to see fairly easily how much developer solution has carried over into the water tray that you're using as stop. So as not to create any gratuitous suspense, I'll just say that I think what you find will shock you--there will prove to be lots of developer in the stop-water which will reveal itself as a brown, oxidized layer of crud on the bottom of the evaporated stop-bath tray. Please note - BE CAREFUL GLACIAL CAN BURN YOU.For a very short time in my life I worked in a chemistry lab at the U of Maine in Orono - that was horror Glacial is pure acetic acid. Stop bath mostly comes as a 28% solution, which is sufficiently diluted that it can't do any harm. "Indicator" stop bath has a testing chemical called Bromocresol Purple added to it. Most photographers start with 28%, which is the standard stop bath formula that is sold in stores. Then you dilute it further to get to acidic solution you want--Ansel Adams recommended 6% solution (slightly stronger than vinegar), many books recommend 3% (slightly weaker than vinegar)--it doesn't really matter. I only use glacial because it is cheaper and it's not polluted with that yellow "indicator" which is useless anyway (because, by the time the bromocresol purple changes from yellow to purple, it's been ineffective for some time already). Many people who use glacial as a starting point first dilute it to a 28% solution, store it that way, then dilute it further for use. If you buy 28% solution or mix stock 28% solution, acetic acid isn't potentially harmful to you. What you want to end up with is a weakly acidic solution that stops the action of the developer, mainly to protect the acidity of the fixer. To test this, here's a simple trial. Put your fingers in the developer. It's alkaline, like soap, so it should have a soapy, slimy feel when you rub your fingers together. Then put your fingers into the stop bath and rub them together again. With a fresh stop bath of sufficient acidity, the slimy feel will go away instantly and you'll get the same "clean" feel that you do when you wash soap off your hands. With water, it just takes a little longer for the alkaline developer to wash off your fingers. The "slimy feel" indicator is more accurate than bromocresol purple. I choose my chemicals to make a safe and environmentally benign darkroom. I don't even use selenium toner on a regular basis, since that's a pollutant unless you live near the ocean. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org.
