Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Thanks for posting this! Jack --- On Sat, 5/15/10, Mark Roberts wrote: > From: Mark Roberts > Subject: Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark) > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Date: Saturday, May 15, 2010, 8:32 AM > Dario Bonazza wrote: > > >From the optical point of view, I don't think the > Tamron is a bad lens. > > Here's a user test that compares the Sony and Tamron > lenses. And also > throws in the Zeiss 24-70/2.8 at the end. Very > interesting. > http://kurtmunger.com/tamron_sony_28_75mmid141.html > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > directly above and follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote: > Adam Maas wrote: > >> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Dario Bonazza >> wrote: >>> >>> Resolution: excellent (provided you put enough a lens in front of it, >>> otherwise edges are poor). Don't use the provided 2.8/28-75mm (a rebadged >>> Tamron) full open if you want good resolution at edges. >>> >>> >>> Dario >>> >> >> The 28-75/2.8 SAM is massively overpriced anyways, > > I quite agree. However, don't forget that nowadays there's no relation at > all between the manufacturing cost and the sale price of an item. Industry > tries to produce items at the lowest possible cost and to sell them at the > highest possible price accepted by the market. For a camera priced like the > A850, the price point of this standard zoom is quite OK. Sell the same lens > for APS-C, and its price must go down 50% or more. It's massively overpriced because the exact same lens (differing only in AF drive) sells for 50% of the cost with a different name on it, where most of Sony's rebadged Tamron lenses have only a 10-20% premium. Note the 28-75/2.8 SAM is not setting any sales records, in fact it's mostly been a sales dud for Sony from what I'm hearing over at Dyxum. > >> the Tamron and >> Konica/Minolta versions of the lens are not only optically identical >> (Tamron's coatings differ, KM coatings are the same) but far cheaper >> and more functional as screwdriver lenses can use DMF focusing mode >> for manual focus override, which is lacking on SAM lenses. > > I spotted and highlighted that missing feature in the camera+lens review I > did for an Italian magazine. And on top of that, focusing is quite noisy and > continuous-AF performance is all but stellar in this combo, hence I don't > get the reason for using such kind of AF. Sony's moving to a SAM/SSM split in order to be able to do what Nikon is doing, eliminate AF drive motors in their consumer line and thus make them cheaper and simpler. > >> From the optical point of view, I don't think the Tamron is a bad lens. On > > the contrary, it's a very good performer on APS-C, while on FF it suffers at > edges (as most lenses do, by today's standards). There was a time when > judging lens performance at smaller-detail level was very difficult, while > now everybody blows up images large enough to spot such issues. However, > close down the lens a couple stops and everything goes fine. > Again, I believe the A850+28-75 to be an excellent combo for studio and > generic photography and weaker than expected (by me) for low-light and > action shooting. > > Dario My experience is that the 28-75/2.8 can be an absolutely superb performer, but has some sample variation which usually shows in edge performance. A good example will perform as well out to the edges on FF as Canon's 24-70L, but remains inferior to the ZA 24-70. AF issues in low-light and poor continuous focus performance have long been noted as this lens's weak spot (I'm assuming here that the SAM drive in the Sony-badged version uses the same technology as the EF mount Tamron version). I've owned the lens in the past and will likely be getting another one (in fact it will most likely be the KM version as I'm shooting a fair bit with film A mount kit). -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Mark Roberts wrote: BTW: I'll post a summary of my initial impressions of the camera in a few days. I haven't had enough time as I'd like to work with it yet, so the first installment will be mostly about build quality, ergonomics, user interface, etc. I expect to do more serious shooting with it at GFM, so I'll follow up with an image quality report after that. I will say that Mike Johnston's impressions on image quality - the resolution, of course, and also his assessment that this camera has the best dynamic range of anything currently available - were a large part of my motivation for buying it and they're proving very accurate. Dynamic range is amazing: obviously in a different league than my K20D. Resolution was well above any other camera I've tested so far. Dynamic range didn't impress me. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Mark Roberts wrote: Dario Bonazza wrote: From the optical point of view, I don't think the Tamron is a bad lens. Here's a user test that compares the Sony and Tamron lenses. And also throws in the Zeiss 24-70/2.8 at the end. Very interesting. http://kurtmunger.com/tamron_sony_28_75mmid141.html Provided it's not a focusing issue, which I strongly suspect. In my experience, difference in lens sharpness is often due to focusing (in)accuracy rather than to actual lens performance. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Dario Bonazza wrote: >From the optical point of view, I don't think the Tamron is a bad lens. Here's a user test that compares the Sony and Tamron lenses. And also throws in the Zeiss 24-70/2.8 at the end. Very interesting. http://kurtmunger.com/tamron_sony_28_75mmid141.html -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Adam Maas wrote: >The 28-75/2.8 SAM is massively overpriced anyways, the Tamron and >Konica/Minolta versions of the lens are not only optically identical >(Tamron's coatings differ, KM coatings are the same) but far cheaper >and more functional as screwdriver lenses can use DMF focusing mode >for manual focus override, which is lacking on SAM lenses. I just ordered the Tamron version :) BTW: I'll post a summary of my initial impressions of the camera in a few days. I haven't had enough time as I'd like to work with it yet, so the first installment will be mostly about build quality, ergonomics, user interface, etc. I expect to do more serious shooting with it at GFM, so I'll follow up with an image quality report after that. I will say that Mike Johnston's impressions on image quality - the resolution, of course, and also his assessment that this camera has the best dynamic range of anything currently available - were a large part of my motivation for buying it and they're proving very accurate. Dynamic range is amazing: obviously in a different league than my K20D. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Adam Maas wrote: On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote: Resolution: excellent (provided you put enough a lens in front of it, otherwise edges are poor). Don't use the provided 2.8/28-75mm (a rebadged Tamron) full open if you want good resolution at edges. Dario The 28-75/2.8 SAM is massively overpriced anyways, I quite agree. However, don't forget that nowadays there's no relation at all between the manufacturing cost and the sale price of an item. Industry tries to produce items at the lowest possible cost and to sell them at the highest possible price accepted by the market. For a camera priced like the A850, the price point of this standard zoom is quite OK. Sell the same lens for APS-C, and its price must go down 50% or more. the Tamron and Konica/Minolta versions of the lens are not only optically identical (Tamron's coatings differ, KM coatings are the same) but far cheaper and more functional as screwdriver lenses can use DMF focusing mode for manual focus override, which is lacking on SAM lenses. I spotted and highlighted that missing feature in the camera+lens review I did for an Italian magazine. And on top of that, focusing is quite noisy and continuous-AF performance is all but stellar in this combo, hence I don't get the reason for using such kind of AF. From the optical point of view, I don't think the Tamron is a bad lens. On the contrary, it's a very good performer on APS-C, while on FF it suffers at edges (as most lenses do, by today's standards). There was a time when judging lens performance at smaller-detail level was very difficult, while now everybody blows up images large enough to spot such issues. However, close down the lens a couple stops and everything goes fine. Again, I believe the A850+28-75 to be an excellent combo for studio and generic photography and weaker than expected (by me) for low-light and action shooting. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Considerate of you to comment, Adam. Points well taken. Jack --- On Sat, 5/15/10, Adam Maas wrote: > From: Adam Maas > Subject: Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark) > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Date: Saturday, May 15, 2010, 7:38 AM > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:27 AM, > Dario Bonazza > > wrote: > > > > Resolution: excellent (provided you put enough a lens > in front of it, > > otherwise edges are poor). Don't use the provided > 2.8/28-75mm (a rebadged > > Tamron) full open if you want good resolution at > edges. > > > > > > Dario > > > > The 28-75/2.8 SAM is massively overpriced anyways, the > Tamron and > Konica/Minolta versions of the lens are not only optically > identical > (Tamron's coatings differ, KM coatings are the same) but > far cheaper > and more functional as screwdriver lenses can use DMF > focusing mode > for manual focus override, which is lacking on SAM lenses. > > -- > M. Adam Maas > http://www.mawz.ca > Explorations of the City Around Us. > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > directly above and follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote: > > Resolution: excellent (provided you put enough a lens in front of it, > otherwise edges are poor). Don't use the provided 2.8/28-75mm (a rebadged > Tamron) full open if you want good resolution at edges. > > > Dario > The 28-75/2.8 SAM is massively overpriced anyways, the Tamron and Konica/Minolta versions of the lens are not only optically identical (Tamron's coatings differ, KM coatings are the same) but far cheaper and more functional as screwdriver lenses can use DMF focusing mode for manual focus override, which is lacking on SAM lenses. -- M. Adam Maas http://www.mawz.ca Explorations of the City Around Us. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Appreciate your comments, Dario. Fairly close to my interpretation of the dp review. Jack --- On Wed, 5/12/10, Dario Bonazza wrote: > From: Dario Bonazza > Subject: Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark) > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 6:27 AM > I've used the A850 for a while. My > impressions: > > Build: excellent > > Viewfinder: excellent > > Handling: very good > > Resolution: excellent (provided you put enough a lens in > front of it, otherwise edges are poor). Don't use the > provided 2.8/28-75mm (a rebadged Tamron) full open if you > want good resolution at edges. > > AF: excellent on steady subjects, worse than Pentax on > moving subjects in less-than-ideal conditions > > Noise: comparable to K20D (but the lower enlargement > required make it less obvious) > > Dynamic range: slightly worse than K20D. > > All in all: an excellent studio camera, doesn't feel so > comfortable in action. > > Dario > > - Original Message ----- From: "Jack Davis" > To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" > Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 3:12 PM > Subject: Sony A850 ? (Mark) > > > > Mark, > > > > How are you with your A850 decision? Too early? > > > > Impression; noise, HDR. res., overall IQ, > build/handling...? > > > > You put up a loving shot of it awhile back, but what > with "Chicago" et al, > > > > Wondering if your hands-on impression confirms > satisfies your expectations. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Jack > > > > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link > directly above and follow the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: Sony A850 ? (Mark)
I've used the A850 for a while. My impressions: Build: excellent Viewfinder: excellent Handling: very good Resolution: excellent (provided you put enough a lens in front of it, otherwise edges are poor). Don't use the provided 2.8/28-75mm (a rebadged Tamron) full open if you want good resolution at edges. AF: excellent on steady subjects, worse than Pentax on moving subjects in less-than-ideal conditions Noise: comparable to K20D (but the lower enlargement required make it less obvious) Dynamic range: slightly worse than K20D. All in all: an excellent studio camera, doesn't feel so comfortable in action. Dario - Original Message - From: "Jack Davis" To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 3:12 PM Subject: Sony A850 ? (Mark) Mark, How are you with your A850 decision? Too early? Impression; noise, HDR. res., overall IQ, build/handling...? You put up a loving shot of it awhile back, but what with "Chicago" et al, Wondering if your hands-on impression confirms satisfies your expectations. Thanks! Jack -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Sony A850 ? (Mark)
Mark, How are you with your A850 decision? Too early? Impression; noise, HDR. res., overall IQ, build/handling...? You put up a loving shot of it awhile back, but what with "Chicago" et al, Wondering if your hands-on impression confirms satisfies your expectations. Thanks! Jack -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
