Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
I've used the camera's built-in meter since I had a camera that had that (it was Kiev-19, Russian manual SLR with Nikon lens mount). At that point I learned to work with a point meter by pointing the center spot to the area by which I would like to do the metering, and if necessary do some thinking (e.g. compensate for reflective or bright backgrounds such as water or sky). Even with the matrix metering available (ZX-5n, *ist DS), very often I've been doing the same, while switching to the center-point metering. Igor Fri, 10 Feb 2006 11:02:37 -0800 Adam Maas wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And some film cameras, like you mentioned, did not have matrix metering, only spot metering or center weighted metering. So matrix metering was mentioned quite a few times because it does a better job for people. But people can draw their own conclusions based on the data. Marnie aka Doe I suspect a lot of this has to do with the Meter getting better, rather than the move to digital. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that most of the people who used to use handheld meters and now use the camera meter were moving up from MF bodies or older film bodies that had less intelligent matrix metering or just centre-weighted. For them, the excellent matrix & spot meters on the *ists would be a major upgrade. -Adam
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. Yes, that was basically my conclusion too, Rob. Metering is easier with digital because a lot of the guess work is gone. OTOH, there is another way to look at it too. A lot of digital shooters shot a lot of film before going digital and already knew how to meter well. So they just transferred their skills over to digital. Although one responder said he'd never used film -- a first generation "never used film guy." That is bound to happen now. And some film cameras, like you mentioned, did not have matrix metering, only spot metering or center weighted metering. So matrix metering was mentioned quite a few times because it does a better job for people. But people can draw their own conclusions based on the data. Marnie aka Doe I suspect a lot of this has to do with the Meter getting better, rather than the move to digital. I wouldn't be shocked to find out that most of the people who used to use handheld meters and now use the camera meter were moving up from MF bodies or older film bodies that had less intelligent matrix metering or just centre-weighted. For them, the excellent matrix & spot meters on the *ists would be a major upgrade. -Adam
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
In a message dated 2/9/2006 4:31:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On 9 Feb 2006 at 14:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Of the 24 mainly digital responders, 14 said no, they had not changed the way > they did exposure since switching to digital. > > HOWEVER -- this is where I am going to throw in my own conclusions :-) -- > many qualified their nos. > > How? Lots had used handheld meters of one kind or another when they shooting > film. Many mentioned they no longer used them, the in camera meter was > accurate. That they relied on it. Several mentioned matrix metering in particular. > > Another qualification was many mentioned being aware of being more cautious > about overexposure. Paying attention to settings to not to have blown > highlights and/or using exposure compensation (one or more mentioned referring to the > histogram). > > So, despite the fact that those 14 thought there had been no change, in > reading them over, I got the distinct impression they was more of a change than > they may have realized. Not for everyone, of course, but for some. And maybe not > that big a change, but a change. Thanks for putting this together Marnie, it's quite interesting. My take on the excerpt above is that the in camera meters are now so much more revealing given the fact that it's so easy to chimp a histogram of the scene exposure is easy to get right sans guess work. When I was travelling with my DSLR and 67 I tended to use my DSLR to meter the more difficult 67 shots as my 67 only has a rudimentary spot meter even though I did also have my incident meter with me. Cheers, Rob Studdert == Thanks. Yes, that was basically my conclusion too, Rob. Metering is easier with digital because a lot of the guess work is gone. OTOH, there is another way to look at it too. A lot of digital shooters shot a lot of film before going digital and already knew how to meter well. So they just transferred their skills over to digital. Although one responder said he'd never used film -- a first generation "never used film guy." That is bound to happen now. And some film cameras, like you mentioned, did not have matrix metering, only spot metering or center weighted metering. So matrix metering was mentioned quite a few times because it does a better job for people. But people can draw their own conclusions based on the data. Marnie aka Doe
RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
Ya see, I'm not yet old enough to be proud of it. (Actually I could be but am too modist) Jack --- Fernando Terrazzino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >You could have at least asked off list. :-/ > > I could, although this way is more fun :oD > > > > >From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > >To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > >Subject: RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure? > >Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:17:08 -0800 (PST) > > > >Fernando, > >You could have at least asked off list. :-/ > >I'm somewhat younger than my powder flash. > > > >Jack > > > >--- Fernando Terrazzino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > >When I first started shooting, it was with a "Baby Brownie" when > I > > > was > > > >7 or 8 years old. Used full program on that one. ;-) > > > > > > Kodak "Baby Brownie" Dates: 1934-1941 > > > > > > Jack, how old are you?: ) > > > > > > _ > > > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the > > > Internet has > > > to offer. > > > > >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > > > > > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and > get > > > the > > > first two months FREE*. > > > > > > > > > > > >__ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > _ > Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft® > SmartScreen > Technology. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get > the > first two months FREE*. > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
You could have at least asked off list. :-/ I could, although this way is more fun :oD From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure? Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 15:17:08 -0800 (PST) Fernando, You could have at least asked off list. :-/ I'm somewhat younger than my powder flash. Jack --- Fernando Terrazzino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >When I first started shooting, it was with a "Baby Brownie" when I > was > >7 or 8 years old. Used full program on that one. ;-) > > Kodak "Baby Brownie" Dates: 1934-1941 > > Jack, how old are you?: ) > > _ > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the > Internet has > to offer. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get > the > first two months FREE*. > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft® SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
On 9 Feb 2006 at 14:02, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Of the 24 mainly digital responders, 14 said no, they had not changed the way > they did exposure since switching to digital. > > HOWEVER -- this is where I am going to throw in my own conclusions :-) -- > many qualified their nos. > > How? Lots had used handheld meters of one kind or another when they shooting > film. Many mentioned they no longer used them, the in camera meter was > accurate. That they relied on it. Several mentioned matrix metering in > particular. > > Another qualification was many mentioned being aware of being more cautious > about overexposure. Paying attention to settings to not to have blown > highlights and/or using exposure compensation (one or more mentioned > referring to the > histogram). > > So, despite the fact that those 14 thought there had been no change, in > reading them over, I got the distinct impression they was more of a change > than > they may have realized. Not for everyone, of course, but for some. And maybe > not > that big a change, but a change. Thanks for putting this together Marnie, it's quite interesting. My take on the excerpt above is that the in camera meters are now so much more revealing given the fact that it's so easy to chimp a histogram of the scene exposure is easy to get right sans guess work. When I was travelling with my DSLR and 67 I tended to use my DSLR to meter the more difficult 67 shots as my 67 only has a rudimentary spot meter even though I did also have my incident meter with me. Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
Fernando, You could have at least asked off list. :-/ I'm somewhat younger than my powder flash. Jack --- Fernando Terrazzino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >When I first started shooting, it was with a "Baby Brownie" when I > was > >7 or 8 years old. Used full program on that one. ;-) > > Kodak "Baby Brownie" Dates: 1934-1941 > > Jack, how old are you?: ) > > _ > Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the > Internet has > to offer. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get > the > first two months FREE*. > > __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
- Original Message - From: "E.R.N. Reed" Subject: Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure? E.R.N. Reed wrote: PRIVATE: Rats!! Probably just a bad mouse. WW
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
E.R.N. Reed wrote: PRIVATE: Rats!!
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
PRIVATE: First -- thanks. I'd forgotten all about the survey (I did participate, though, didn't I?) but it makes interesting reading. Also, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The thread went off to discuss Hyperprogram (and differences between it and Hypermanual) and how Pentax is/was great for coming up with that. (Don't ask me, I've haven't used either.) Sell the Canon, get an *istD. That has both HyperProgram and HyperManual. You won't regret it. Of course, if you have to win the lottery to do this, and your ticket happens NOT to win, you're excused as it won't be your fault. Later!!
RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
When I first started shooting, it was with a "Baby Brownie" when I was 7 or 8 years old. Used full program on that one. ;-) Kodak "Baby Brownie" Dates: 1934-1941 Jack, how old are you?: ) _ Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.
RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
When I first started shooting, it was with a "Baby Brownie" when I was 7 or 8 years old. Used full program on that one. ;-) As I recall now, from the time I was given my first 35mm I've used the smallest aperture 'practical'. Mostly hand held stuff in good light. In my teens, my semi-pro father taught me to think aperture priority and I consider it to have been a great favor. Jack --- Fernando Terrazzino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Funny, I find myself using AV most of the time (now that I have a DS, > kinda > hard trying with the K1000 : D ). And I think the logic behind that > should > be that the "artistic" decisions that I make often have to do with > DOF > rather than freezing motion. So I guess my pattern is: > AV - Default > TV - If using telephoto or want to freeze motion > M - Low light > > > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > >To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net > >Subject: Survey Results: How do you do exposure? > >Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:02:43 EST > > > >I took a survey on exposure starting 3/2/2005 and have several times > since > >promised the results. Recently I've been going through my AOL email > inbox, > >trying to whittle down the 45,000+ PDML messages in it, and came > across the > >survey. > >I printed out all the responses and did a rough tally. So here the > >results... > >finally! > > > >I am dyslexic, and this means I have a lousy time sense. Not for > hours in > >the > >day, but for days in the week, weeks in the month, and months in the > year. > >Anyway, that's my story about why the results are so late, and I am > >sticking to > >it. :-) > > > >Before the survey I had recently attended a John Shaw weekend, then > a > >George > >Lepp weekend and was surprised to find both use Av (Aperture > Priority) most > >of > >the time. Coming from using the K-1000 and then the ZX-5n, I was > still > >doing > >exposure all manually. After this survey I switched to Av on my DSLR > and my > >pictures improved (quite a bit). > > > >I could glean interesting tid bits from the results, but I am going > to go > >with the broad results. Since people answered differently it's a bit > hard > >to > >tally, but here goes. > > > >And, actually, it was more fun to read at the time, than see any > results. > >But > >they may be semi-interesting... > > > > > >The questions were: > > > >1. How do you do exposure most of the time? Av or Tv or manual > (doing it > >yourself)? > > > >2. Do you shoot digital or film? > > > >Optional -- > > > >3. If you shoot digital, have you changed how you do exposure since > >switching > >from film? > > > > > >Numbers may be off by 1 (or 2) either way. > > > >41 responded to the survey itself (I am discounting the chatter. > :-)). > > > >One or more have since left the list and several or more have since > >switched > >to shooting mainly digital. > > > >Of that 41... > > > >17 were still shooting either all film, or mainly film. > >24 were shooting either all digital, or mainly digital. > > > >Av was the clear winner. > > > >25 were shooting using Av most of the time. > >Exceptions were given for using Tv for long glass, night > photography, > >flash, > >and sports/action. Exceptions were given for using manual for tricky > > >lighting > >and close ups. > > > >7 were shooting manual all of the time or most of the time. > >They were all film camera users. Many had cameras that would only > let them > >do > >manual. > > > >8 were doing some combination, broken down into percentages. > >Closer to 60%/50% for Av and 50% Tv or manual. Others in the 25 I > have > >mentioned above may have broken it down into percentages too, but > they were > >shooting > >over 80% (usually over 90%) Av. > > > >Many in this group mentioned Hyperprogram. So they were both film > and > >digital > >shooters or were shooting both. And sometimes they were mentioning > using > >one > >mode or another based on which film or digital camera they were > using at > >the > >time. > > > >1 used mainly Tv. He was shooting mainly digital. > > > >Of the 24 mainly digital responders, 14 said no, they had not > changed the > >way > >they did exposure since switching to digital. > > > >HOWE
RE: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
Funny, I find myself using AV most of the time (now that I have a DS, kinda hard trying with the K1000 : D ). And I think the logic behind that should be that the "artistic" decisions that I make often have to do with DOF rather than freezing motion. So I guess my pattern is: AV - Default TV - If using telephoto or want to freeze motion M - Low light From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net To: pentax-discuss@pdml.net Subject: Survey Results: How do you do exposure? Date: Thu, 9 Feb 2006 14:02:43 EST I took a survey on exposure starting 3/2/2005 and have several times since promised the results. Recently I've been going through my AOL email inbox, trying to whittle down the 45,000+ PDML messages in it, and came across the survey. I printed out all the responses and did a rough tally. So here the results... finally! I am dyslexic, and this means I have a lousy time sense. Not for hours in the day, but for days in the week, weeks in the month, and months in the year. Anyway, that's my story about why the results are so late, and I am sticking to it. :-) Before the survey I had recently attended a John Shaw weekend, then a George Lepp weekend and was surprised to find both use Av (Aperture Priority) most of the time. Coming from using the K-1000 and then the ZX-5n, I was still doing exposure all manually. After this survey I switched to Av on my DSLR and my pictures improved (quite a bit). I could glean interesting tid bits from the results, but I am going to go with the broad results. Since people answered differently it's a bit hard to tally, but here goes. And, actually, it was more fun to read at the time, than see any results. But they may be semi-interesting... The questions were: 1. How do you do exposure most of the time? Av or Tv or manual (doing it yourself)? 2. Do you shoot digital or film? Optional -- 3. If you shoot digital, have you changed how you do exposure since switching from film? Numbers may be off by 1 (or 2) either way. 41 responded to the survey itself (I am discounting the chatter. :-)). One or more have since left the list and several or more have since switched to shooting mainly digital. Of that 41... 17 were still shooting either all film, or mainly film. 24 were shooting either all digital, or mainly digital. Av was the clear winner. 25 were shooting using Av most of the time. Exceptions were given for using Tv for long glass, night photography, flash, and sports/action. Exceptions were given for using manual for tricky lighting and close ups. 7 were shooting manual all of the time or most of the time. They were all film camera users. Many had cameras that would only let them do manual. 8 were doing some combination, broken down into percentages. Closer to 60%/50% for Av and 50% Tv or manual. Others in the 25 I have mentioned above may have broken it down into percentages too, but they were shooting over 80% (usually over 90%) Av. Many in this group mentioned Hyperprogram. So they were both film and digital shooters or were shooting both. And sometimes they were mentioning using one mode or another based on which film or digital camera they were using at the time. 1 used mainly Tv. He was shooting mainly digital. Of the 24 mainly digital responders, 14 said no, they had not changed the way they did exposure since switching to digital. HOWEVER -- this is where I am going to throw in my own conclusions :-) -- many qualified their nos. How? Lots had used handheld meters of one kind or another when they shooting film. Many mentioned they no longer used them, the in camera meter was accurate. That they relied on it. Several mentioned matrix metering in particular. Another qualification was many mentioned being aware of being more cautious about overexposure. Paying attention to settings to not to have blown highlights and/or using exposure compensation (one or more mentioned referring to the histogram). So, despite the fact that those 14 thought there had been no change, in reading them over, I got the distinct impression they was more of a change than they may have realized. Not for everyone, of course, but for some. And maybe not that big a change, but a change. Anyway, that's the basic results. The thread went off to discuss Hyperprogram (and differences between it and Hypermanual) and how Pentax is/was great for coming up with that. (Don't ask me, I've haven't used either.) Results of another survey coming soon. Or maybe not. That time sense thing. ;-) Later, Marnie aka Doe _ Scan and help eliminate destructive viruses from your inbound and outbound e-mail and attachments. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN® Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*.
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
In a message dated 2/9/2006 11:24:20 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > The thread went off to discuss Hyperprogram (and differences between it and > Hypermanual) and how Pentax is/was great for coming up with that. (Don't ask > me, I've haven't used either.) > Later, Marnie aka Doe > You would love it/ them.:-) Dave BTW nice report === Thanks. Probably would. Well, since I am el stupido who switched to Canon, I have to suffer the consequences. :-) BTW, instead of saying close-ups (for manual exceptions to Av) I probably should have said portraits. I think all the manual exposure exceptions mentioned were portraits, but I wasn't totally positive so I just said close-ups. Marnie aka Doe aka el stupido ;-)
Re: Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
> > The thread went off to discuss Hyperprogram (and differences between it and > Hypermanual) and how Pentax is/was great for coming up with that. (Don't ask > me, I've haven't used either.) > Later, Marnie aka Doe > You would love it/ them.:-) Dave BTW nice report
Survey Results: How do you do exposure?
I took a survey on exposure starting 3/2/2005 and have several times since promised the results. Recently I've been going through my AOL email inbox, trying to whittle down the 45,000+ PDML messages in it, and came across the survey. I printed out all the responses and did a rough tally. So here the results... finally! I am dyslexic, and this means I have a lousy time sense. Not for hours in the day, but for days in the week, weeks in the month, and months in the year. Anyway, that's my story about why the results are so late, and I am sticking to it. :-) Before the survey I had recently attended a John Shaw weekend, then a George Lepp weekend and was surprised to find both use Av (Aperture Priority) most of the time. Coming from using the K-1000 and then the ZX-5n, I was still doing exposure all manually. After this survey I switched to Av on my DSLR and my pictures improved (quite a bit). I could glean interesting tid bits from the results, but I am going to go with the broad results. Since people answered differently it's a bit hard to tally, but here goes. And, actually, it was more fun to read at the time, than see any results. But they may be semi-interesting... The questions were: 1. How do you do exposure most of the time? Av or Tv or manual (doing it yourself)? 2. Do you shoot digital or film? Optional -- 3. If you shoot digital, have you changed how you do exposure since switching from film? Numbers may be off by 1 (or 2) either way. 41 responded to the survey itself (I am discounting the chatter. :-)). One or more have since left the list and several or more have since switched to shooting mainly digital. Of that 41... 17 were still shooting either all film, or mainly film. 24 were shooting either all digital, or mainly digital. Av was the clear winner. 25 were shooting using Av most of the time. Exceptions were given for using Tv for long glass, night photography, flash, and sports/action. Exceptions were given for using manual for tricky lighting and close ups. 7 were shooting manual all of the time or most of the time. They were all film camera users. Many had cameras that would only let them do manual. 8 were doing some combination, broken down into percentages. Closer to 60%/50% for Av and 50% Tv or manual. Others in the 25 I have mentioned above may have broken it down into percentages too, but they were shooting over 80% (usually over 90%) Av. Many in this group mentioned Hyperprogram. So they were both film and digital shooters or were shooting both. And sometimes they were mentioning using one mode or another based on which film or digital camera they were using at the time. 1 used mainly Tv. He was shooting mainly digital. Of the 24 mainly digital responders, 14 said no, they had not changed the way they did exposure since switching to digital. HOWEVER -- this is where I am going to throw in my own conclusions :-) -- many qualified their nos. How? Lots had used handheld meters of one kind or another when they shooting film. Many mentioned they no longer used them, the in camera meter was accurate. That they relied on it. Several mentioned matrix metering in particular. Another qualification was many mentioned being aware of being more cautious about overexposure. Paying attention to settings to not to have blown highlights and/or using exposure compensation (one or more mentioned referring to the histogram). So, despite the fact that those 14 thought there had been no change, in reading them over, I got the distinct impression they was more of a change than they may have realized. Not for everyone, of course, but for some. And maybe not that big a change, but a change. Anyway, that's the basic results. The thread went off to discuss Hyperprogram (and differences between it and Hypermanual) and how Pentax is/was great for coming up with that. (Don't ask me, I've haven't used either.) Results of another survey coming soon. Or maybe not. That time sense thing. ;-) Later, Marnie aka Doe
