Re: White Balance on K-7
Dario Bonazza wrote: K-7 manual, page 192: Mark! -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Yes indeed. Apparently I wasn't sufficiently thorough :-). Corrected that little bugger :-). There is another interesting option on the same menu page. It says how WB behaves when flash is attached. Default is - AWB. Boris On 12/3/2010 1:04 AM, Miserere wrote: I think you might be unpleasantly surprised :-D On 02/12/2010, Boris Libermanbori...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/1/2010 10:01 PM, Miserere wrote: Boris, This is the issue: http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/shutterfinger/2010/08/automation-strikes-again.html Igor might want to run a test similar to Gordon's to make sure his camera is fine, but I suspect it is. This is simply a case of Pentax trying to outsmart us, but they're going to have to try harder! Hmmm... /Scratches his head/ Oh well, I will verify what kind of value I assigned to this option when I was passing over the menus once I got the camera... I may be up to a surprise... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On 12/1/2010 10:01 PM, Miserere wrote: Boris, This is the issue: http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/shutterfinger/2010/08/automation-strikes-again.html Igor might want to run a test similar to Gordon's to make sure his camera is fine, but I suspect it is. This is simply a case of Pentax trying to outsmart us, but they're going to have to try harder! Hmmm... /Scratches his head/ Oh well, I will verify what kind of value I assigned to this option when I was passing over the menus once I got the camera... I may be up to a surprise... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
I think you might be unpleasantly surprised :-D On 02/12/2010, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 12/1/2010 10:01 PM, Miserere wrote: Boris, This is the issue: http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/shutterfinger/2010/08/automation-strikes-again.html Igor might want to run a test similar to Gordon's to make sure his camera is fine, but I suspect it is. This is simply a case of Pentax trying to outsmart us, but they're going to have to try harder! Hmmm... /Scratches his head/ Oh well, I will verify what kind of value I assigned to this option when I was passing over the menus once I got the camera... I may be up to a surprise... Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On 11/30/2010 5:42 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Bob and Boris: I usually shoot with AWB (and RAW), but this time I fixed it the WB to minimize necessity for corrections, as the light was very consistent and the flash was not allowed at all. Igor, is it at all possible then to have you make a controlled experiment? Because if you do, you may have enough data to present to your Pentax service if you would have to send the camera in. Here, sometimes, you essentially need to prove to the service clerk that the camera is broken. As a side effect of this experiment, you may establish an interesting procedure and add yet another bit of knowledge for the common good. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Boris Liberman wrote: On 11/30/2010 5:42 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Bob and Boris: I usually shoot with AWB (and RAW), but this time I fixed it the WB to minimize necessity for corrections, as the light was very consistent and the flash was not allowed at all. Igor, is it at all possible then to have you make a controlled experiment? Because if you do, you may have enough data to present to your Pentax service if you would have to send the camera in. Here, sometimes, you essentially need to prove to the service clerk that the camera is broken. As a side effect of this experiment, you may establish an interesting procedure and add yet another bit of knowledge for the common good. Uh? Why do you suppose Igor's camera to be broken when Igor himself agreed on my suggestion to just change the set WB from go where you like (Pentax default) to fixed? Let's wait and see if such a menu setting is enough to solve the problem. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On 12/1/2010 11:05 AM, Dario Bonazza wrote: Uh? Why do you suppose Igor's camera to be broken when Igor himself agreed on my suggestion to just change the set WB from go where you like (Pentax default) to fixed? Let's wait and see if such a menu setting is enough to solve the problem. Dario Sorry, Dario (and Igor). I didn't /suggest/ or /suppose/ that Igor's camera may be actually /broken/. I did suggest that Igor makes a controlled experiment. I don't think Igor would want to change the settings and go out shooting effectively /hoping/ that the settings change did solve his problem. I think it has to be tried before. And /if/ as a /result/ of such experiment Igor figures out that his camera is not functioning right, he'd be able to discuss this with Pentax service more easily as he would have an evidence and knowledge to support him. Or alternatively, as a result of the above experiment, Igor might be able to learn more about this specific aspect of his camera and /know/ where the limitations are so that his work with the camera will benefit from that. Boris P.S. Recently I tried to use focus test technique suggested by Paul Stenquist and I found it to be most useful for my two most recent shoots as I went out /knowing/ that despite the focusing precision issues with my Sigma 24-60/2.8, the camera was properly /dialed in/ and I had no focus issues with the lens whatsoever. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On 1 December 2010 03:57, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/30/2010 5:42 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Bob and Boris: I usually shoot with AWB (and RAW), but this time I fixed it the WB to minimize necessity for corrections, as the light was very consistent and the flash was not allowed at all. Igor, is it at all possible then to have you make a controlled experiment? Because if you do, you may have enough data to present to your Pentax service if you would have to send the camera in. Here, sometimes, you essentially need to prove to the service clerk that the camera is broken. As a side effect of this experiment, you may establish an interesting procedure and add yet another bit of knowledge for the common good. Boris Boris, This is the issue: http://shutterfinger.typepad.com/shutterfinger/2010/08/automation-strikes-again.html Igor might want to run a test similar to Gordon's to make sure his camera is fine, but I suspect it is. This is simply a case of Pentax trying to outsmart us, but they're going to have to try harder! —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On Nov 29, 2010, at 23:15 , Dario Bonazza wrote: Strong means the camera compensates for the warm cast, perfoming a white-balanced (neutral) shot. The default is strong which looking at the proof sheet of the dancers submitted is what the camera tried to do on some of the shots, leaving the majority of them with a tungsten yellow caste. Is that right? Anyone run any test with a user set WB on a sheet of paper under any lighting conditions to see if the camera does it's own thing with the WB once and a while? Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com The Big Bang was silent, and invisible in it's beginning moments. — from the Pentaxian's thoughts on particle physics, so far. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Igor, On 11/29/2010 5:39 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? I will have to look in my collection but I am fairly certain that all three cameras I've been shooting with (*istD, K10D, K-7) exhibited this kind of behavior. I usually shoot in AWB mode, but get significantly different color casts of my pictures from time to time. Although each camera did improve on AWB stability and K-7 did improve significantly here, they did not hammer the issue out completely. I haven't looked any further into this. Simply I correct WB in post when necessary and if I cannot salvage the shot (even by B/W conversion) I discard it. I wonder if K-7 and/or K-5 have WB bracketing function that perhaps can be used along with high-speed continuous mode (7 fps of K-5 sound particularly impressive here) to work around this issue. Though, if you were shooting with flash, it would have to be some rather special flash or its power supply, methinks. Boris -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Mon Nov 29 16:00:51 CST 2010 Dario Bonazza wrote: Charles Robinson wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:46, Dario Bonazza wrote: Is [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2] menu set to [Fixed]? If not, that could explain that behaviour. Don't ask me why one should select a given white balance and then allow the camera to change it, but Pentax thinks of it as a good idea! Isn't this all about being able to fine-tune all of the WB settings? Not the camera doing it, but the user making adjustments. K-7 manual, page 192: The camera automatically performs fine-tuning even when the light source is specified. The color temperature of the light source is fixed when [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2]] menu (p.85) is set to [Fixed]. AUTOMATICALLY, even when the light source is specified. Perhaps there are instances where such operation makes sense, but... to me, it looks a lot like that mad idea of allowing you to select SEL for AF points selector and then reverting back to auto select, which was the behaviour of the AF selector before a firmware fix. Dario Dario, I think you are right. I just checked the menu settings, and it was set to the default value, Adjustable Range, instead of Fixed. I suspect that this setting was the culprit for what I observed. Thank you to all who responded with the ideas and suggestions! Some clarifications and comments to responses: Even though in the thumbnail list I showed, most of the shots were with the yellow cast, as I wrote earlier, - most of the shots (about 800 shots) were without this yellow cast. I just chose the part where the dancers were exactly in the same spot, so that it would be obvious that the light conditions didn't change at all. For the sake of completeness: the setting c2 - 12 AWB under Tungsten light was set to Subtle, but I suspect this is only relevant to when the WB is set to AWB. At least the manual (page 85) says so: 12. AWB in Tungsten light. Sets whether to leave or adjust the tungsten light color tone when the white balance is set to _AWB_. Bob and Boris: I usually shoot with AWB (and RAW), but this time I fixed it the WB to minimize necessity for corrections, as the light was very consistent and the flash was not allowed at all. Joseph: It's a hotel ball/meeting room (Omni) rented for the event (the wooden floor is rented/installed on top of the carpet). Bob and Charles, - Mark is correct, - it is definitely tungsten. (I saw the bulbs, and checked the WB initially, when I started shooting) Joseph: I saw that the actual WB of the shots was changing as I was shooting (I didn't discover it later), but I didn't bother to start changing anything during the performance. There were two reasons: it was shot in RAW anyway (hence I knew I could correct it later), and I didn't want to miss something interesting. Besides, at the time I had no idea what else might affecting the WB. A rather interesting thing is that the yellow cast in these shots is not as redish as the one that would have been if I left the WB set to AWB. Again, thanks to all who responded. Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Hi, I've experienced the same problem and it seems that Tungsten WB is not fixed WB setting. Instead, it tries to adopt to lighting conditions. Shooting JPEG, try fixed K value instead - for me it have been worked fine. Of course, RAW would be the best (but a bit more time-consuming) solution. BR, Margus On 11/29/2010 9:18 PM, P N Stenquist wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 1:57 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Mon Nov 29 09:52:30 CST 2010 P N Stenquist wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? What fills the frame affects white balance. If the dancers were blocking some of the light on some shots and more fully lit on others, you'll get some variation of color temp. Easy enough to correct during conversion. Paul Paul, Yes, that could do it in principle, but it doesn't make sense in the current situation. Since I _fixed_ the WB to a particular setting, very slight changes shouldn't affect the WB. To better illustrate what I observe, - let me show you this image: http://komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/Mixed-2010/WB-problem-2010-11-27.jpg No WB or exposure settings were changed in this sequence. These photos were not modified. Yes, one can correct the WB, but it is not how it should work, isn't it? Igor You're right. Something is out of whack here. I never shoot anything expect AWB and RAW, so I can't tell you if my camera shares this problem. When I have time, I'll give it a try under some tungsten lighting. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Margus Männik wrote: I've experienced the same problem and it seems that Tungsten WB is not fixed WB setting. Instead, it tries to adopt to lighting conditions. Shooting JPEG, try fixed K value instead - for me it have been worked fine. Of course, RAW would be the best (but a bit more time-consuming) solution. Strange but true, no Pentax WB setting is fixed by default. However, you can make it fixed by setting the appropriate menu item. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
White Balance on K-7
Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? Igor (Sorry for the duplicated message, - the previous one had a corrupted Subject/header) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On Nov 29, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? What fills the frame affects white balance. If the dancers were blocking some of the light on some shots and more fully lit on others, you'll get some variation of color temp. Easy enough to correct during conversion. Paul Igor (Sorry for the duplicated message, - the previous one had a corrupted Subject/header) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Mon Nov 29 09:52:30 CST 2010 P N Stenquist wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? What fills the frame affects white balance. If the dancers were blocking some of the light on some shots and more fully lit on others, you'll get some variation of color temp. Easy enough to correct during conversion. Paul Paul, Yes, that could do it in principle, but it doesn't make sense in the current situation. Since I _fixed_ the WB to a particular setting, very slight changes shouldn't affect the WB. To better illustrate what I observe, - let me show you this image: http://komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/Mixed-2010/WB-problem-2010-11-27.jpg No WB or exposure settings were changed in this sequence. These photos were not modified. Yes, one can correct the WB, but it is not how it should work, isn't it? Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On Nov 29, 2010, at 1:57 PM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Mon Nov 29 09:52:30 CST 2010 P N Stenquist wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? What fills the frame affects white balance. If the dancers were blocking some of the light on some shots and more fully lit on others, you'll get some variation of color temp. Easy enough to correct during conversion. Paul Paul, Yes, that could do it in principle, but it doesn't make sense in the current situation. Since I _fixed_ the WB to a particular setting, very slight changes shouldn't affect the WB. To better illustrate what I observe, - let me show you this image: http://komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/Mixed-2010/WB-problem-2010-11-27.jpg No WB or exposure settings were changed in this sequence. These photos were not modified. Yes, one can correct the WB, but it is not how it should work, isn't it? Igor You're right. Something is out of whack here. I never shoot anything expect AWB and RAW, so I can't tell you if my camera shares this problem. When I have time, I'll give it a try under some tungsten lighting. Paul -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Shooting RAW and AWB I know the colors will shade differently in the same light as composition changes. The Synch function in lightroom is your friend in such cases. Regards, Bob S. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org wrote: Mon Nov 29 09:52:30 CST 2010 P N Stenquist wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Igor Roshchin wrote: Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? What fills the frame affects white balance. If the dancers were blocking some of the light on some shots and more fully lit on others, you'll get some variation of color temp. Easy enough to correct during conversion. Paul Paul, Yes, that could do it in principle, but it doesn't make sense in the current situation. Since I _fixed_ the WB to a particular setting, very slight changes shouldn't affect the WB. To better illustrate what I observe, - let me show you this image: http://komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/Mixed-2010/WB-problem-2010-11-27.jpg No WB or exposure settings were changed in this sequence. These photos were not modified. Yes, one can correct the WB, but it is not how it should work, isn't it? Igor -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
I have experienced the same thing with my k-7! Here is an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23028...@n04/sets/72157625120080220/ Two photos, same subject framing, same WB, exposure settings. Correctable in post, but, still odd. -c On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org wrote: Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? Igor (Sorry for the duplicated message, - the previous one had a corrupted Subject/header) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
I wonder if some of this isn't connected to flourescent lighting and the new energy efficient bulbs that are replacing incandescents. I wonder if these bulbs flicker at a 60 cycle per second rate and deliver different color temperatures in different parts of the cycle. Regards, Bob S. On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Christine Nielsen ch...@inielsen.net wrote: I have experienced the same thing with my k-7! Here is an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/23028...@n04/sets/72157625120080220/ Two photos, same subject framing, same WB, exposure settings. Correctable in post, but, still odd. -c On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Igor Roshchin s...@komkon.org wrote: Hi All, While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? Igor (Sorry for the duplicated message, - the previous one had a corrupted Subject/header) -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:38, Bob Sullivan wrote: I wonder if some of this isn't connected to flourescent lighting and the new energy efficient bulbs that are replacing incandescents. I wonder if these bulbs flicker at a 60 cycle per second rate and deliver different color temperatures in different parts of the cycle. That would be my guess too - that the lighting in the room wasn't truly tungsten. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Igor Roshchin wrote While shooting an argentine tango performance over the weekend I set the WB of my K-7 to Tungsten light. I was surprised to see that while ~80% of shots were with about the right color, some considerable number of shots had a distinctive. It was not as red as it would have been if I left the WB to be on Auto, but still yellow. All the shots were taken under the same condition: in the same room, from the same point, with no light changing, just the couple moving. More over,- some series of shots were made with the the couple in place ,- and some have the WB alright, and some - are yellow. Has anybody experienced anything of this sort? What could be the reason (besides some malfunction of the camera)? Is [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2] menu set to [Fixed]? If not, that could explain that behaviour. Don't ask me why one should select a given white balance and then allow the camera to change it, but Pentax thinks of it as a good idea! Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:46, Dario Bonazza wrote: Is [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2] menu set to [Fixed]? If not, that could explain that behaviour. Don't ask me why one should select a given white balance and then allow the camera to change it, but Pentax thinks of it as a good idea! Isn't this all about being able to fine-tune all of the WB settings? Not the camera doing it, but the user making adjustments. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Charles Robinson wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:38, Bob Sullivan wrote: I wonder if some of this isn't connected to flourescent lighting and the new energy efficient bulbs that are replacing incandescents. I wonder if these bulbs flicker at a 60 cycle per second rate and deliver different color temperatures in different parts of the cycle. That would be my guess too - that the lighting in the room wasn't truly tungsten. That's the first thing I thought, too: It looks as if the lighting is running at 60Hz and the shutter is catching it at various points in the cycle, BUT... the coloration clearly looks like tungsten, which wouldn't do this. Or shouldn't. Baffling. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Charles Robinson wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:46, Dario Bonazza wrote: Is [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2] menu set to [Fixed]? If not, that could explain that behaviour. Don't ask me why one should select a given white balance and then allow the camera to change it, but Pentax thinks of it as a good idea! Isn't this all about being able to fine-tune all of the WB settings? Not the camera doing it, but the user making adjustments. K-7 manual, page 192: The camera automatically performs fine-tuning even when the light source is specified. The color temperature of the light source is fixed when [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2]] menu (p.85) is set to [Fixed]. AUTOMATICALLY, even when the light source is specified. Perhaps there are instances where such operation makes sense, but... to me, it looks a lot like that mad idea of allowing you to select SEL for AF points selector and then reverting back to auto select, which was the behaviour of the AF selector before a firmware fix. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
I wrote: it looks a lot like that mad idea of allowing you to select SEL for AF points selector and then reverting back to auto select, which was the behaviour of the AF selector before a firmware fix. Please read it as: it looks a lot like that mad idea of allowing you to set the AF points selector on SEL (manual selection) and then reverting the arrow keys back to functions other than AF point selection all the time (which was the odd behaviour of the AF selector before a firmware fix). Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On Nov 29, 2010, at 16:00, Dario Bonazza wrote: Charles Robinson wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:46, Dario Bonazza wrote: Is [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2] menu set to [Fixed]? If not, that could explain that behaviour. Don't ask me why one should select a given white balance and then allow the camera to change it, but Pentax thinks of it as a good idea! Isn't this all about being able to fine-tune all of the WB settings? Not the camera doing it, but the user making adjustments. K-7 manual, page 192: The camera automatically performs fine-tuning even when the light source is specified. The color temperature of the light source is fixed when [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2]] menu (p.85) is set to [Fixed]. AUTOMATICALLY, even when the light source is specified. Well now, that's just nuts. -Charles -- Charles Robinson - charl...@visi.com Minneapolis, MN http://charles.robinsontwins.org http://www.facebook.com/charles.robinson -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:24 , Charles Robinson wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 16:00, Dario Bonazza wrote: Charles Robinson wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:46, Dario Bonazza wrote: Is [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2] menu set to [Fixed]? If not, that could explain that behaviour. Don't ask me why one should select a given white balance and then allow the camera to change it, but Pentax thinks of it as a good idea! Isn't this all about being able to fine-tune all of the WB settings? Not the camera doing it, but the user making adjustments. K-7 manual, page 192: The camera automatically performs fine-tuning even when the light source is specified. The color temperature of the light source is fixed when [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2]] menu (p.85) is set to [Fixed]. AUTOMATICALLY, even when the light source is specified. Well now, that's just nuts. -Charles A. My K-20, and now my K-7 exhibit a similar problem in AWB. And now I know why.. Except it seems like the cameras jump to a whole different type of light, not just make subtle corrections (see B.) B. Custom 12) Subtle or Strong variations in AWB or fixed should definitely be on Subtle to prevent the very wrong shift in your photos. C. Dance practice halls I've ever been in have always had overhead fluorescent banks of 4 tubes per. Never seen one lit with tungsten. But I'm sure you know what you saw. Another checkmark for chimping, at least for starters. In your example you would have had to chimp the first 5 or 6 to realize something was wrong. D. Please let us know what you find out abut the session. May give some more clues. Joseph McAllister pentax...@mac.com There is no off position to the genius switch. Genius can, however, be observed as insanity. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
I'm pretty sure it's what Dario is saying. When I received the K-5 last week the first thing I did was go through the Custom menu and change stuff like this. I don't understand why the default setting is to allow the camera to change WB when on AutoWB, but it is. On 29/11/2010, Dario Bonazza dario.bona...@virgilio.it wrote: Charles Robinson wrote: On Nov 29, 2010, at 14:46, Dario Bonazza wrote: Is [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2] menu set to [Fixed]? If not, that could explain that behaviour. Don't ask me why one should select a given white balance and then allow the camera to change it, but Pentax thinks of it as a good idea! Isn't this all about being able to fine-tune all of the WB settings? Not the camera doing it, but the user making adjustments. K-7 manual, page 192: The camera automatically performs fine-tuning even when the light source is specified. The color temperature of the light source is fixed when [11. WB Adjustable Range] in the [C Custom Setting 2]] menu (p.85) is set to [Fixed]. AUTOMATICALLY, even when the light source is specified. Perhaps there are instances where such operation makes sense, but... to me, it looks a lot like that mad idea of allowing you to select SEL for AF points selector and then reverting back to auto select, which was the behaviour of the AF selector before a firmware fix. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- —M. \/\/o/\/\ -- http://WorldOfMiserere.com http://EnticingTheLight.com A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
From: Igor Roshchin Yes, that could do it in principle, but it doesn't make sense in the current situation. Since I _fixed_ the WB to a particular setting, very slight changes shouldn't affect the WB. To better illustrate what I observe, - let me show you this image: http://komkon.org/~igor/PHOTOS/Mixed-2010/WB-problem-2010-11-27.jpg No WB or exposure settings were changed in this sequence. These photos were not modified. Yes, one can correct the WB, but it is not how it should work, isn't it? My $0.02 ... It looks like the series were shot with daylight WB, and that in a few instances (the ones that are not yellow) you caught the room while it was illuminated by someone else's flash (or someone's flash went off while your shutter was open). Not saying that's what it is, just that it looks like that to me. I can easily get that yellow cast by shooting with daylight WB under mixed tungsten fluorescent light. And the ones that are not yellow look like daylight WB flash. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: White Balance on K-7
Joseph McAllister wrote: B. Custom 12) Subtle or Strong variations in AWB or fixed should definitely be on Subtle to prevent the very wrong shift in your photos. No, that's another solution, for a problem other than the one we are discussing here and, in case, it's the other way round. That Subtle/Strong correction does not affect AWB and only deals with the type of correction you ask for when shooting under tungsten light. Subtle means the camera does some minor compensation for the warm cast of the tungsten light, while keeping its distinctive mood. Strong means the camera compensates for the warm cast, perfoming a white-balanced (neutral) shot. Dario -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
