Re: baby-D wish/expect list
Rob Studdert wrote: According to reviewers or users? I've no problems with it's sharpness, with the right lens it's down to theoretical limits and in at least one test that I've seen it showed the least problems with aliasing of all its contemporary competition. Rob, please elaborate on this, since (as you know ;-) I'm so badly stressed by unsatisfying sharpness/resolution of the *ist D. Thanks. Dario Bonazza
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
On 8 Jun 2004 at 10:53, Dario Bonazza wrote: Rob, please elaborate on this, since (as you know ;-) I'm so badly stressed by unsatisfying sharpness/resolution of the *ist D. Thanks. If you want improved real (not apparent) sharpness you'll have to wait for sensors with greater pixel density. You can always digitally sharpen *ist D images to end up as poor as all the other similar DSLRs. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There's a significant group of people who feel that the *ist-D is arguably the *best* of the DSLRs in image sharpness. More is *not* synonymous with better. Yep. Count me amongst them. I don't want my camera deciding how much sharpening to add (and what radius and threshold settings to use). If you _want_ the significantly-sharpened-straight-out-of-the-camera you are forced to accept from other DSLRs you can always crank the in-camera sharpening up to the maximum value. For those with significant experience in digital imaging, this is one of the main reasons to favor the ist-D over any other DSLR. But if you're going to do any sort of image editing between exposure and print or display you're far better off turning sharpening down (or, at the least, leaving it at the default setting) and applying any sharpening filters as the final step. You have to (re-)sharpen anyway if you resize the image, and there's no point in introducing extra sharpening artifacts. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
6MP, Pentaprism, SD card, under $900? Well, that does put it solidly in the Prosumer catagory doesn't it? I would also bet USB 2.0, and cripled software (no K/M compatability). I do not expect to see it in the Boone Wal-Mart though. My own thought ,backed by zero experience, is that it would be damn easy to lose those postage stamp sized cards. But progress goes on no matter what I think. -- graywolf http://graywolfphoto.com/graywolf.html
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
I admit I'm a little surprised by some of these comments. I think it's clear that the Baby D will have: - a 6 MP sensor - CF card storage - plastic body, no metal chassis list the *istD - pentamirror less clear is whether or not they will include the firmware fix for the K/M lense. This assumes that the camera will have the DoF preview feature, which is how the fix works. I'd be really surprised at an SD card or less than a 6mp sensor. That's just what's available. A lower MP , cheaper sensor might be an advantage from a sales perspective since you could make a much cheaper camera, but not of those cheaper sensors are APS sized. With 35 mm lenses, this would lead to an unacceptable crop factor. I'm picturing a digital camera based on the MZ-60 or film *ist body. As a matter of fact the film *ist is configured like a DSLR with a large LCD panel (BW) on the back. My wild guess is that they'll base the Baby D on this body. Steven Desjardins Department of Chemistry Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA 24450 (540) 458-8873 FAX: (540) 458-8878 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
And an SD card reader is easier to fit, hence expect it. Dario Bonazza Steve Desjardins wrote: I admit I'm a little surprised by some of these comments. I think it's clear that the Baby D will have: - a 6 MP sensor - CF card storage - plastic body, no metal chassis list the *istD - pentamirror less clear is whether or not they will include the firmware fix for the K/M lense. This assumes that the camera will have the DoF preview feature, which is how the fix works. I'd be really surprised at an SD card or less than a 6mp sensor. That's just what's available. A lower MP , cheaper sensor might be an advantage from a sales perspective since you could make a much cheaper camera, but not of those cheaper sensors are APS sized. With 35 mm lenses, this would lead to an unacceptable crop factor. I'm picturing a digital camera based on the MZ-60 or film *ist body. As a matter of fact the film *ist is configured like a DSLR with a large LCD panel (BW) on the back. My wild guess is that they'll base the Baby D on this body. And an SD card reader is easier to fit, hence expect it. My guess: - 6 MP sensor - SD card storage - plastic body, no metal chassis list the *istD - pentamirror - crippled mount - no K/M fix Dario Bonazza
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
On 8 Jun 2004 at 16:31, Dario Bonazza wrote: And an SD card reader is easier to fit, hence expect it. If it has CF it could be a viable back-up body (assuming that Papa-D takes as long to arrive as the *ist D) to the *ist D. If not they are shooting themselves in the foot for all markets, even the 300D offers CF only. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I admit I'm a little surprised by some of these comments. I think it's clear that the Baby D will have: - a 6 MP sensor - CF card storage - plastic body, no metal chassis list the *istD - pentamirror less clear is whether or not they will include the firmware fix for the K/M lense. This assumes that the camera will have the DoF preview feature, which is how the fix works. I'd be really surprised at an SD card or less than a 6mp sensor. I expect it to use the *same* sensor as the ist-D: Buying one sensor in larger volume just makes sense, especially since the other camera that currently uses it (the Nikon d100) is being discontinued soon. No one is going to put an SD card in a DSLR when everything else uses CF cards. Especially since it would discourage current ist-D owners from adding a second body. They're going to want to re-use as much of the RD, hardware, software and manufacturing technology form the ist-D production line as possible. You can bet the bank on it using CF cards and probably on it using the same sensor. It would just add expense and reduce the desirability of the end product to change either of those things. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
From: Steve Desjardins [EMAIL PROTECTED] I admit I'm a little surprised by some of these comments. I think it's clear that the Baby D will have: - a 6 MP sensor Agreed that this is what is availible and likely. What I meant was that I'd accept 4. I can get film-quality 8x10s out of 2.77. - CF card storage SD card slots are starting to show up in DSLRs as well as a lot of PSs. Given how much Pentax likes small and light, I wouldn't discount the idea. less clear is whether or not they will include the firmware fix for the K/M lense. This assumes that the camera will have the DoF preview feature, which is how the fix works. I'd think this would be pretty cheap to implement, and pretty standard these days (although I haven't really looked at an entry-level camera in years). If it isn't there, it's probably for marketing reasons. I'm picturing a digital camera based on the MZ-60 or film *ist body. As a matter of fact the film *ist is configured like a DSLR with a large LCD panel (BW) on the back. My wild guess is that they'll base the Baby D on this body. Makes sense, as there isn't much else to base it on except maybe the ZX-M. There's no need for a new baby film body because that's what the *ist is. DJE
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -at least 4MP. I'd expect the same 6MP sony sensor as the *istD. If there's a better sensor availible Pentax would be wise to upgrade the *istD with it and put the cheap, well-understood sony one in the baby. Nobody seems to be jumping on the Foveon sensor. I'd expect image quality to be at least *istD quality. Hopefully, experience will make it better as the *istD is arguably the worst of the DSLRs in image sharpness. The sharpness is all software. It is the same sensor as the D100 and I think the D70. Too much sharpness makes it hard to do processing later on (and it increases noise), too little and people complain. -easily accessible manual exposure and metering. In the name of user-friendliness the current baby DSLRs are a bit weak here. I wouldn't be surprised if Pentax is too, on the theory that the average $900 DSLR buyer won't want manual anything. I expect that it will have the *ist (not *ist D) controls. One control wheel instead of two. -at least as much old-lens compatability as the *istD. I'm not sure that metering a $900 camera with a handheld meter because I have a screwmount or K lens on it would be acceptable. I expect that it won't have the Green button solution that the *ist D has for metering with K/M lenses. -reasonable ISO range. Assuming the standard Sony sensor, I'd expect about the same as the *istD has, perhaps less at the top end. I've got no need for ISO 50 or 100 unless they are coupled with higher quality as they are in film. I wouldn't be too surprised if they dropped ISO 3200 just as Canon did in the D-Rebel. -something new cosmetically, such as a new color or the slanted top of the MZ-S. Pentax is still a leader in such things. Consider that Hasselblads now come in primary colors--why not DSLRs? Nikons are resolutely black, and the Canon 300D has hijacked that Pentax chrome/titanium color. Maybe gold-tone? Ugh, I hope not. The color of the 300D makes it look really cheap. I like the *ist D black. I was fine with the MZ-5n silver/black. -An upgraded *istD at the same time. Pentax COULD still do something aggressive and improve it's $1500 price-point DSLR to be superior in some noticeable way to its Nikon, Canon, and Sigma rivals. I'd expect Nikon to get there first, now that the D70 has basically taken over from the D100 (Nikon D70/D100 Canon 300D/10D, in terms of relative quality of siblings). Realistically, the baby-D is going to have to be quite cheap or pretty competitive with the *istD to make it competitive with the D70. I'd expect Pentax brand-loyalty to be a less-important factor in baby-D sales than *istD sales. Common sense would say that the *ist D would need to be rev'd pretty quickly since it isn't that much more expensive (25%) and on paper will probably have many of the same features. On the other hand Canon still seems to be selling the 10D and has waited a while to rev it even though the same is true for the 10D and 300D. I think Pentax is stuck with what Sony or other companies are doing for APS sized DSLR sensors. I haven't read of anything being available better than the 6mp sensor being used now. alex
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
Compatibility has been the major issue for me since the *ist D came out. I know about the firmware upgrade that will allow the use of the older K and M lenses, but that never really satisfied me. Jim A. -at least as much old-lens compatability as the *istD. I'm not sure that metering a $900 camera with a handheld meter because I have a screwmount or K lens on it would be acceptable. It's pretty limiting to meter the spotmatics handheld (because half of my meters don't work, and I can't evaluate a full-frame averaging meter well anyway). I'm not sure I'd expect this. Entry-level buyers can be assumed not to have older Pentax gear, and lack of old-gear compatability would push Pentax veterans to the more expensive *istD.
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
But what in life is 100% fully backwards compatible? Tom C. From: Jim Apilado [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: baby-D wish/expect list Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 11:58:14 -0700 Compatibility has been the major issue for me since the *ist D came out. I know about the firmware upgrade that will allow the use of the older K and M lenses, but that never really satisfied me. Jim A. -at least as much old-lens compatability as the *istD. I'm not sure that metering a $900 camera with a handheld meter because I have a screwmount or K lens on it would be acceptable. It's pretty limiting to meter the spotmatics handheld (because half of my meters don't work, and I can't evaluate a full-frame averaging meter well anyway). I'm not sure I'd expect this. Entry-level buyers can be assumed not to have older Pentax gear, and lack of old-gear compatability would push Pentax veterans to the more expensive *istD.
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
That's a pity Jim. I've seen several list members using screw-mount gear (the lenses they LOVE) on a wonderful new digital camera. Works pretty well for those of us who have tried it... CW - Original Message - From: Jim Apilado I know about the firmware upgrade that will allow the use of the older K and M lenses, but that never really satisfied me. Jim A. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 6/7/2004
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
On 7 Jun 2004 at 11:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd expect image quality to be at least *istD quality. Hopefully, experience will make it better as the *istD is arguably the worst of the DSLRs in image sharpness. According to reviewers or users? I've no problems with it's sharpness, with the right lens it's down to theoretical limits and in at least one test that I've seen it showed the least problems with aliasing of all its contemporary competition. -a buffer size and write speed such that it handles at least as fast as a Spotmatic. Really almost ANY DSLR ought to shoot faster than you can operate a wind-lever. I'd expect a 3-4 shot buffer to keep costs down. For photography of things rather than people the buffer/ write speed is less of an issue. Read speed of the sensor is the most likely I/O bottle-neck. -CF card slot, for compatability. I've got a lot of CF for my Nikon DSLRs, PSs, and other electronic technology. Honestly I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Pentax went with SD instead to cut size. I might be able to accept that as flash memory keeps getting cheaper. Any manufacturer who produces a DSLR without CF storage capabilities deserves to fail in the market. Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://members.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications/ Pentax user since 1986, PDMLer since 1998
Re: baby-D wish/expect list
On 7 Jun 2004 at 11:29, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd expect image quality to be at least *istD quality. Hopefully, experience will make it better as the *istD is arguably the worst of the DSLRs in image sharpness. According to reviewers or users? I've no problems with it's sharpness, with the right lens it's down to theoretical limits and in at least one test that I've seen it showed the least problems with aliasing of all its contemporary competition. There's a significant group of people who feel that the *ist-D is arguably the *best* of the DSLRs in image sharpness. More is *not* synonymous with better. If you _want_ the significantly-sharpened-straight-out-of-the-camera you are forced to accept from other DSLRs you can always crank the in-camera sharpening up to the maximum value. But if you're going to do any sort of image editing between exposure and print or display you're far better off turning sharpening down (or, at the least, leaving it at the default setting) and applying any sharpening filters as the final step. You have to (re-)sharpen anyway if you resize the image, and there's no point in introducing extra sharpening artifacts.
