Re: k-1 square crop test
Well, there you go screwing up my beautiful theory, with pesky facts. On 10/23/2016 10:18 AM, Alex Sarbu wrote: I've done some pseudo-investigation (actually, just opened a 1:1 RAW in Silkypix and Pentax DCU). They're saving the entire 3:2 frame, but with a tag for 1:1 cropping; so you can recover the "extra" data - assuming your preferred image processing software's crop tool supports this operation. Silkypix does, and so does the Pentax DCU. Of course, for JPEG there's nothing to recover. Alex On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 3:11 PM, P.J. Alling wrote: I'm sorry, I may have slandered the wrong group of idiots, the thread that gave me a headache was on dpReview, the Pentax Fora thread was slightly less, err, horrible... On 10/23/2016 8:06 AM, P.J. Alling wrote: I know nothing about the 1:1 crop mode, so I decided to do a little research... After reading the first few posts on a Pentax Fora thread, I wanted to yell at my computer screen: "IT'S CALLED AN IMAGE CIRCLE!"; idiots. Like reading arguments by theologians about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or theoretical physicists, about how many possible sub atomic particles there are beyond the standard model. Ultimately headache inducing. Since I have no information let /me/ speculate wildly, or reason rationally, whichever. I assume you're using a full frame lens on the K-1. So I don't see any particular reason to use crop mode on the camera. As you said the files don't seem to be any smaller. The 1:1 crop mode is designed to allow more sensor surface use with the APS-C image circle, so once again, since I don't really know anything, I'll assume that the firmware simply throws away anything outside the 24mmx24mm square, much as it does the information outside the APS-C crop, so it's not recoverable. In fact given the performance improvements in APS-C mode, it is probable that the camera really is only reading the center crop portion. I have no actual data on the 1:1 mode but if there are similar though not as great performance improvements then I expect the same is true in this mode as in APS-C. One or maybe two more assumption(s), the encoding is less efficient for 1:1 crop mode because the job to get it included in the firmware update was rushed, and the efficiency will be improved on the next release. Either that, or since it's storing ~24mp worth of data, the files are all on the small size for K-1 files and pretty much in the normal range for biggish K-3 files, but you just didn't notice. So there you go, in crop mode the data isn't recoverable because it isn't there, and unless you're using an APS-C lens there's no real advantage to using 1:1 crop mode*. *I pulled all of this out of my ass, and standard disclaimers apply. On 10/23/2016 2:37 AM, Larry Colen wrote: When I was photographing a seminar at the dojo today, I tried photographing in square crop mode. On the bright side, it worked great for the photos that I was taking. two people practicing Aikido can nearly fill a square composition, where they leave a lot of the 3:2 frame empty. On the down side, the raw files are no smaller. I also don't see any easy way of recovering (in lightroom) the image that was cropped off to either side, so the frames where someone's limb left the frame, I would have been better off shooting uncropped. If the square crop gave us 24 MP square images (rather than 36 3:2) it would be awesome, it would save space on the card, and more importantly in the buffer. As it is, all it saves me is selecting a bunch of frames and cropping them square. -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions. -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: k-1 square crop test
Probably has more value for those shooting jpegs and not wanting to do any perfecting after capture. -Original Message- >From: Larry Colen >Subject: k-1 square crop test > >When I was photographing a seminar at the dojo today, I tried >photographing in square crop mode. > >On the bright side, it worked great for the photos that I was taking. >two people practicing Aikido can nearly fill a square composition, where >they leave a lot of the 3:2 frame empty. >On the down side, the raw files are no smaller. I also don't see any >easy way of recovering (in lightroom) the image that was cropped off to >either side, so the frames where someone's limb left the frame, I would >have been better off shooting uncropped. > >If the square crop gave us 24 MP square images (rather than 36 3:2) it >would be awesome, it would save space on the card, and more importantly >in the buffer. As it is, all it saves me is selecting a bunch of frames >and cropping them square. > >-- >Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: k-1 square crop test
I came to following observations: 1. With FF lens and K1 in 1:1 cropmode makes little sense as indicated by others. 2. With APS-C lens and K1 in 1:1 cropmode, there can be the advantage of using the whole image circle. 3. However, many lenses do not offer the whole image circle to the sensor. First, the tulip-shaped sun-hood is optimized for maximum shading. This can result in an image circle of roughly 3:2. 4. My Sigma 8-18mm has this and the hood is fixed to the lens so cannot be taken off without damage. 5. Second, My Pentax-K 135mm/2.5 even w/o lenshood projects 3:2 on the sensor, due to build in window to reduce unwanted reflections. This is a FF lens, but I expect there will be APS-C lenses with a 3:2 window too. 6. For the optical view finder, the cropmodes are only an overlay with thick border lines, with APS-C lens, this helps somewhat in judging what will be in the final image. 7. APS-C crop mode on the live view display, fills the screen with the image that will be recorded. That is better than the OVF 8. 1:1 crop mode (w APS-C lens) on live view display shows the image limited in horizontal direction by the crop mode and in vertical direction by the crop mode or by the lens, whichever is smaller. Greetz, Jos On 23-Oct-16 14:06, P.J. Alling wrote: I know nothing about the 1:1 crop mode, so I decided to do a little research... After reading the first few posts on a Pentax Fora thread, I wanted to yell at my computer screen: "IT'S CALLED AN IMAGE CIRCLE!"; idiots. Like reading arguments by theologians about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or theoretical physicists, about how many possible sub atomic particles there are beyond the standard model. Ultimately headache inducing. Since I have no information let /me/ speculate wildly, or reason rationally, whichever. I assume you're using a full frame lens on the K-1. So I don't see any particular reason to use crop mode on the camera. As you said the files don't seem to be any smaller. The 1:1 crop mode is designed to allow more sensor surface use with the APS-C image circle, so once again, since I don't really know anything, I'll assume that the firmware simply throws away anything outside the 24mmx24mm square, much as it does the information outside the APS-C crop, so it's not recoverable. In fact given the performance improvements in APS-C mode, it is probable that the camera really is only reading the center crop portion. I have no actual data on the 1:1 mode but if there are similar though not as great performance improvements then I expect the same is true in this mode as in APS-C. One or maybe two more assumption(s), the encoding is less efficient for 1:1 crop mode because the job to get it included in the firmware update was rushed, and the efficiency will be improved on the next release. Either that, or since it's storing ~24mp worth of data, the files are all on the small size for K-1 files and pretty much in the normal range for biggish K-3 files, but you just didn't notice. So there you go, in crop mode the data isn't recoverable because it isn't there, and unless you're using an APS-C lens there's no real advantage to using 1:1 crop mode*. *I pulled all of this out of my ass, and standard disclaimers apply. On 10/23/2016 2:37 AM, Larry Colen wrote: When I was photographing a seminar at the dojo today, I tried photographing in square crop mode. On the bright side, it worked great for the photos that I was taking. two people practicing Aikido can nearly fill a square composition, where they leave a lot of the 3:2 frame empty. On the down side, the raw files are no smaller. I also don't see any easy way of recovering (in lightroom) the image that was cropped off to either side, so the frames where someone's limb left the frame, I would have been better off shooting uncropped. If the square crop gave us 24 MP square images (rather than 36 3:2) it would be awesome, it would save space on the card, and more importantly in the buffer. As it is, all it saves me is selecting a bunch of frames and cropping them square. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: k-1 square crop test
I've done some pseudo-investigation (actually, just opened a 1:1 RAW in Silkypix and Pentax DCU). They're saving the entire 3:2 frame, but with a tag for 1:1 cropping; so you can recover the "extra" data - assuming your preferred image processing software's crop tool supports this operation. Silkypix does, and so does the Pentax DCU. Of course, for JPEG there's nothing to recover. Alex On Sun, Oct 23, 2016 at 3:11 PM, P.J. Alling wrote: > I'm sorry, I may have slandered the wrong group of idiots, the thread that > gave me a headache was on dpReview, the Pentax Fora thread was slightly > less, err, horrible... > > > On 10/23/2016 8:06 AM, P.J. Alling wrote: >> >> I know nothing about the 1:1 crop mode, so I decided to do a little >> research... >> >> After reading the first few posts on a Pentax Fora thread, I wanted to >> yell at my computer screen: "IT'S CALLED AN IMAGE CIRCLE!"; idiots. >> >> Like reading arguments by theologians about how many angels can dance on >> the head of a pin, or theoretical physicists, about how many possible sub >> atomic particles there are beyond the standard model. >> >> Ultimately headache inducing. >> >> Since I have no information let /me/ speculate wildly, or reason >> rationally, whichever. >> >> I assume you're using a full frame lens on the K-1. So I don't see any >> particular reason to use crop mode on the camera. As you said the files >> don't seem to be any smaller. >> >> The 1:1 crop mode is designed to allow more sensor surface use with the >> APS-C image circle, so once again, since I don't really know anything, I'll >> assume that the firmware simply throws away anything outside the 24mmx24mm >> square, much as it does the information outside the APS-C crop, so it's not >> recoverable. >> >> In fact given the performance improvements in APS-C mode, it is probable >> that the camera really is only reading the center crop portion. I have no >> actual data on the 1:1 mode but if there are similar though not as great >> performance improvements then I expect the same is true in this mode as in >> APS-C. >> >> One or maybe two more assumption(s), the encoding is less efficient for >> 1:1 crop mode because the job to get it included in the firmware update was >> rushed, and the efficiency will be improved on the next release. Either >> that, or since it's storing ~24mp worth of data, the files are all on the >> small size for K-1 files and pretty much in the normal range for biggish K-3 >> files, but you just didn't notice. >> >> So there you go, in crop mode the data isn't recoverable because it isn't >> there, and unless you're using an APS-C lens there's no real advantage to >> using 1:1 crop mode*. >> >> >> *I pulled all of this out of my ass, and standard disclaimers apply. >> >> >> >> On 10/23/2016 2:37 AM, Larry Colen wrote: >>> >>> When I was photographing a seminar at the dojo today, I tried >>> photographing in square crop mode. >>> >>> On the bright side, it worked great for the photos that I was taking. two >>> people practicing Aikido can nearly fill a square composition, where they >>> leave a lot of the 3:2 frame empty. >>> On the down side, the raw files are no smaller. I also don't see any easy >>> way of recovering (in lightroom) the image that was cropped off to either >>> side, so the frames where someone's limb left the frame, I would have been >>> better off shooting uncropped. >>> >>> If the square crop gave us 24 MP square images (rather than 36 3:2) it >>> would be awesome, it would save space on the card, and more importantly in >>> the buffer. As it is, all it saves me is selecting a bunch of frames and >>> cropping them square. >>> >> >> > > > -- > I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve > immortality through not dying. > -- Woody Allen > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and > follow the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: k-1 square crop test
I'm sorry, I may have slandered the wrong group of idiots, the thread that gave me a headache was on dpReview, the Pentax Fora thread was slightly less, err, horrible... On 10/23/2016 8:06 AM, P.J. Alling wrote: I know nothing about the 1:1 crop mode, so I decided to do a little research... After reading the first few posts on a Pentax Fora thread, I wanted to yell at my computer screen: "IT'S CALLED AN IMAGE CIRCLE!"; idiots. Like reading arguments by theologians about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or theoretical physicists, about how many possible sub atomic particles there are beyond the standard model. Ultimately headache inducing. Since I have no information let /me/ speculate wildly, or reason rationally, whichever. I assume you're using a full frame lens on the K-1. So I don't see any particular reason to use crop mode on the camera. As you said the files don't seem to be any smaller. The 1:1 crop mode is designed to allow more sensor surface use with the APS-C image circle, so once again, since I don't really know anything, I'll assume that the firmware simply throws away anything outside the 24mmx24mm square, much as it does the information outside the APS-C crop, so it's not recoverable. In fact given the performance improvements in APS-C mode, it is probable that the camera really is only reading the center crop portion. I have no actual data on the 1:1 mode but if there are similar though not as great performance improvements then I expect the same is true in this mode as in APS-C. One or maybe two more assumption(s), the encoding is less efficient for 1:1 crop mode because the job to get it included in the firmware update was rushed, and the efficiency will be improved on the next release. Either that, or since it's storing ~24mp worth of data, the files are all on the small size for K-1 files and pretty much in the normal range for biggish K-3 files, but you just didn't notice. So there you go, in crop mode the data isn't recoverable because it isn't there, and unless you're using an APS-C lens there's no real advantage to using 1:1 crop mode*. *I pulled all of this out of my ass, and standard disclaimers apply. On 10/23/2016 2:37 AM, Larry Colen wrote: When I was photographing a seminar at the dojo today, I tried photographing in square crop mode. On the bright side, it worked great for the photos that I was taking. two people practicing Aikido can nearly fill a square composition, where they leave a lot of the 3:2 frame empty. On the down side, the raw files are no smaller. I also don't see any easy way of recovering (in lightroom) the image that was cropped off to either side, so the frames where someone's limb left the frame, I would have been better off shooting uncropped. If the square crop gave us 24 MP square images (rather than 36 3:2) it would be awesome, it would save space on the card, and more importantly in the buffer. As it is, all it saves me is selecting a bunch of frames and cropping them square. -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
Re: k-1 square crop test
I know nothing about the 1:1 crop mode, so I decided to do a little research... After reading the first few posts on a Pentax Fora thread, I wanted to yell at my computer screen: "IT'S CALLED AN IMAGE CIRCLE!"; idiots. Like reading arguments by theologians about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or theoretical physicists, about how many possible sub atomic particles there are beyond the standard model. Ultimately headache inducing. Since I have no information let /me/ speculate wildly, or reason rationally, whichever. I assume you're using a full frame lens on the K-1. So I don't see any particular reason to use crop mode on the camera. As you said the files don't seem to be any smaller. The 1:1 crop mode is designed to allow more sensor surface use with the APS-C image circle, so once again, since I don't really know anything, I'll assume that the firmware simply throws away anything outside the 24mmx24mm square, much as it does the information outside the APS-C crop, so it's not recoverable. In fact given the performance improvements in APS-C mode, it is probable that the camera really is only reading the center crop portion. I have no actual data on the 1:1 mode but if there are similar though not as great performance improvements then I expect the same is true in this mode as in APS-C. One or maybe two more assumption(s), the encoding is less efficient for 1:1 crop mode because the job to get it included in the firmware update was rushed, and the efficiency will be improved on the next release. Either that, or since it's storing ~24mp worth of data, the files are all on the small size for K-1 files and pretty much in the normal range for biggish K-3 files, but you just didn't notice. So there you go, in crop mode the data isn't recoverable because it isn't there, and unless you're using an APS-C lens there's no real advantage to using 1:1 crop mode*. *I pulled all of this out of my ass, and standard disclaimers apply. On 10/23/2016 2:37 AM, Larry Colen wrote: When I was photographing a seminar at the dojo today, I tried photographing in square crop mode. On the bright side, it worked great for the photos that I was taking. two people practicing Aikido can nearly fill a square composition, where they leave a lot of the 3:2 frame empty. On the down side, the raw files are no smaller. I also don't see any easy way of recovering (in lightroom) the image that was cropped off to either side, so the frames where someone's limb left the frame, I would have been better off shooting uncropped. If the square crop gave us 24 MP square images (rather than 36 3:2) it would be awesome, it would save space on the card, and more importantly in the buffer. As it is, all it saves me is selecting a bunch of frames and cropping them square. -- I don't want to achieve immortality through my work; I want to achieve immortality through not dying. -- Woody Allen -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
k-1 square crop test
When I was photographing a seminar at the dojo today, I tried photographing in square crop mode. On the bright side, it worked great for the photos that I was taking. two people practicing Aikido can nearly fill a square composition, where they leave a lot of the 3:2 frame empty. On the down side, the raw files are no smaller. I also don't see any easy way of recovering (in lightroom) the image that was cropped off to either side, so the frames where someone's limb left the frame, I would have been better off shooting uncropped. If the square crop gave us 24 MP square images (rather than 36 3:2) it would be awesome, it would save space on the card, and more importantly in the buffer. As it is, all it saves me is selecting a bunch of frames and cropping them square. -- Larry Colen l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est) http://red4est.com/lrc -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
